View Full Version : A.T. over Blood Mountain to be closed for bear operation
The following information comes to ATC from the U.S. Forest Service via the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club:
A large, food-conditioned bear has been determined to pose a threat to people in the vicinity of Blood Mountain. The bear will be euthanized by the Department of Natural Resources. The A.T. over Blood Mountain will be closed for a few days while this operation is taking place. The Freeman Trail will remain open and is to be used as an alternative. Signs and personnel will be placed at Bird Gap and Flatrock Gap to notify hikers. The dates of this closure have not yet been determined.
For tips on staying safe from bears in the backcountry, go to www.appalachiantrail.org/healthandsafety.
For other trail updates, go to www.appalachiantrail.org/updates.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
TJ aka Teej
05-03-2010, 18:04
A large, food-conditioned bear has been determined to pose a threat to people in the vicinity of Blood Mountain.
Thanks, Laurie!
Anyone know about any ATers having contact with this bear?
Excellent good half moon wrote about it in his journal
Clyde
butts0989
05-03-2010, 18:24
ya, i had a nice break and a snack bar with it right south of the summit, he's a nice dude, terrible thing they're doin to him :)
Another victim of hikers hanging their food, sad.:(
Another victim of hikers hanging their food, sad.:(
With few exceptions, we are advised here to hang your food bag.
So, am I dense or this there anybody else that just did not get that:confused:
Lone Wolf
05-03-2010, 20:14
Another victim of hikers hanging their food, sad.:(
and staying at shelters with unprofessional bear cables
Lone Wolf
05-03-2010, 20:15
With few exceptions, we are advised here to hang your food bag.
So, am I dense or this there anybody else that just did not get that:confused:
advised where? i've never hung a food bag
advised where? i've never hung a food bag
i keep my food in my tent in between the nasty dog and the .45
Check out my earlier post "Bear trouble at Woods Hole". This bear was see numerous times and he is a huge bear. I hate to see the bear killed but I dont have a better answer for one that size and in an area that remote.
generoll
05-03-2010, 21:05
what's so special about a bear? I had beef in my taco for lunch and I'm pretty sure that cow had never done me any harm. when a bear forgets his place in the food chain then away with him.
With few exceptions, we are advised here to hang your food bag.
So, am I dense or this there anybody else that just did not get that:confused:
never hung my food. haven't met a black bear yet that thought it was worth going for.
what's so special about a bear? I had beef in my taco for lunch and I'm pretty sure that cow had never done me any harm. when a bear forgets his place in the food chain then away with him.
yeah, but bear just tastes nasty.
Who can blame Yogi for wanting to dine on those great trail meals. Maybe he was getting the meals for Cindy Bear or maybe his side kick Boo Boo Bear. Good hunting Ranger Smith.
I think a more appropiate thing to do is dart him and tag him. then relocate it. if it comes back then other methods should be used. in the shenandoahs that is what they do. some times people on these threads say some stupid things. when we are hiking we are visitors and it is there home we are hiking in. we have to act in a responsible way so things like this do not happen. I would hope people would respond in a more appropiate way on the threads.
Lion King
05-03-2010, 22:01
hiker cant outfight, out run or out think a bear they should stay home.
bears are cool man, dont kill him!
I think a more appropiate thing to do is dart him and tag him. then relocate it. if it comes back then other methods should be used. in the shenandoahs that is what they do. some times people on these threads say some stupid things. when we are hiking we are visitors and it is there home we are hiking in. we have to act in a responsible way so things like this do not happen. I would hope people would respond in a more appropiate way on the threads.
I tend to agree with Bronco regarding relocating the bear. I passed through the Neels Gap area two weeks ago, a morning that seven hikers had their food supply completely pillaged. Some did not make a responsible effort to hang food. I witnessed this first hand. Seems like a shame to destroy an animal when human "visitors" are largely to blame.
Cool AT Breeze
05-03-2010, 23:04
I think a more appropiate thing to do is dart him and tag him. then relocate it. if it comes back then other methods should be used. in the shenandoahs that is what they do. some times people on these threads say some stupid things. when we are hiking we are visitors and it is there home we are hiking in. we have to act in a responsible way so things like this do not happen. I would hope people would respond in a more appropiate way on the threads.
He's been moved atleast twice.
Appalachian Tater
05-03-2010, 23:19
Bear operation = Bear killing
Euthanized = Killed
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-03-2010, 23:22
If the bear has been moved twice, then it is time for what Generoll mentions to happen. A large bear that has become acclimated to human food is a serious danger to both hikers and to people and pets who live near the area.
BTW, Kanga, you've just never had bear prepared correctly - it can be tasty.
SerenitySeeker
05-04-2010, 02:08
I have rarely heard of anyone on these sights not hang their food bag...though yes I agree campers with food atract bears, it certainly isn't more so because it is hung...and it certainly cannot be safe to keep the food in the tent with us since by the very fact that some of you say hanging the food bag attracts bears then having the food bag in the tent will also attract bears directly to our bodies.
So now I am confused.
I have rarely heard of anyone on these sights not hang their food bag...though yes I agree campers with food atract bears, it certainly isn't more so because it is hung...and it certainly cannot be safe to keep the food in the tent with us since by the very fact that some of you say hanging the food bag attracts bears then having the food bag in the tent will also attract bears directly to our bodies.
So now I am confused.
Bear bagging is a great concept but the reality is few do it right and there are often few places to do it right.:-? That is why in the Sierras bear bagging has been prohibited for a long time now. ;)
They moved the bear to the AT....brillant!!!!:rolleyes:
generoll
05-04-2010, 07:10
Bear bagging is a great concept but the reality is few do it right and there are often few places to do it right.:-? That is why in the Sierras bear bagging has been prohibited for a long time now. ;)
Prohibited? Got a reference?
He's been moved atleast twice.
third time is the charm. 3 tags and he's out.
MintakaCat
05-04-2010, 07:29
Prohibited? Got a reference?
I think it is in some sections. Here's a link:
http://sierrawild.gov/bears/
Bear is a fine meal when prepared correctly. Lets all remember, 400 pound ticked off bear versus 200 pound ticked off human.....who will likely win that battle. That's without weapons of course.
I suggest we begin tagging and relocating some hikers!
I have rarely heard of anyone on these sights not hang their food bag...though yes I agree campers with food atract bears, it certainly isn't more so because it is hung...and it certainly cannot be safe to keep the food in the tent with us since by the very fact that some of you say hanging the food bag attracts bears then having the food bag in the tent will also attract bears directly to our bodies.
So now I am confused.
well the flaw with your logic is this: black bears will usually go for the easiest meal. an unattended and poorly hung food bag is nothing but a game for him to get down. a food bag guarded by another creature similar to it in the food chain is for starving bears. thanks to lazy people, we don't have any of those around here. so hang your food and i'll sleep with mine and you can watch me eat in the morning.
Mrs Baggins
05-04-2010, 08:01
I read once that in Shenandoah NP the rangers will shoot wild pigs and drag them way off from any trails in the hope that the bears will eat them and leave the hikers/campers food alone.
Thanks, Laurie!
Anyone know about any ATers having contact with this bear?
I was out there at the end of last week. Per the ranger, the bear was not aggressive but was systematically taking out food bags nightly. I was encouraged to stay off the ridge so I tented down at Justice Creek with some other peeps. Tom did some awesome bear bagging, and we had no problems. However, other people were not so lucky that night! At woods hole shelter there was still part of a food bag hanging on the bear cables. The ranger's shelter entry at blood mountain was extensive. I feel sorry for the bear - perhaps things escalated the first part of the week? I met some hikers who slept with their food in their tent because they didn't bring anything to hang their food with - the bear got everyone else's food Friday night but not theirs, but stayed around their tent all night and no one slept. They were unable to scare the bear off.
Hikerhead
05-04-2010, 08:14
I read once that in Shenandoah NP the rangers will shoot wild pigs and drag them way off from any trails in the hope that the bears will eat them and leave the hikers/campers food alone.
You meant GSMNP. There's no pigs in SNP. :)
There's no pigs in SNP. :)Dunno about that, my 2nd ex-wife went on vacation there last year. :banana
Two Speed
05-04-2010, 08:25
Owwwwwwwch.
..........this is better than sitting in a barber shop and listening to old men talk about fishing and politics!
Dunno about that, my 2nd ex-wife went on vacation there last year. :banana
She go there hoping to find your carcass on the trail? ;)
..........this is better than sitting in a barber shop and listening to old men talk about fishing and politics!Cotswold Barber Shop, right off Sharon Amity. :D
warraghiyagey
05-04-2010, 08:45
She go there hoping to find your carcass on the trail? ;)
She probly went there to create his carcass on the trail. . . . :rolleyes:
Cool AT Breeze
05-04-2010, 08:45
Well the bear must of got the word. He showed up here last night and wrecked our gas grill.
warraghiyagey
05-04-2010, 08:50
Well the bear must of got the word. He showed up here last night and wrecked our gas grill.
Bear 1. . . . Grill 0 . . . .
There's a Bear Gryll's joke here somewhere . . .
Gray Blazer
05-04-2010, 08:54
Bear is a fine meal when prepared correctly. Lets all remember, 400 pound ticked off bear versus 200 pound ticked off human.....who will likely win that battle. That's without weapons of course.
Tastes kinda like a cross between spotted owl and bald eagle.
She probly went there to create his carcass on the trail. . . . :rolleyes:Wasn't that a story line on NCIS? :D
I think it is in some sections. Here's a link:
http://sierrawild.gov/bears/
Thanks for providing this as I don't know links. First hand knowlege works for me.:eek:
All bear baggers should click on FAQ and scroll down to- Can I protect my food by hanging?:-?
Its almost word for word what I've been saying for years.;)
I read once that in Shenandoah NP the rangers will shoot wild pigs and drag them way off from any trails in the hope that the bears will eat them and leave the hikers/campers food alone.
It's the policy in the Smokies. I know one of the rangers who did it for about 7 years.
some times people on these threads say some stupid things. when we are hiking we are visitors and it is there home we are hiking in.
You're right, some people do say stupid things. Like saying it is their home and we are just 'visitors'. LOLOL. Yes, we should respect the environment and all animals that live where we choose to go, but to say that human beings are 'visitors' to any part of this planet is just plain ridiculous.
That bear needs to be put down before it kills someone.
warraghiyagey
05-04-2010, 10:41
That bear needs to be put down before it kills someone.
Makes me appreciate Bronco's post even more. . .
Mrs Baggins
05-04-2010, 11:35
You meant GSMNP. There's no pigs in SNP. :)
I think there may be wild pigs pretty much everywhere now. Two friends and I encountered a small one on that last mile of the AT nobo as you're approaching Jefferson's Rock at Harpers Ferry. It was rooting like mad in a pile of dead leaves maybe 50 feet to the left of the trail. I reported it to the park but never heard back. That was 4 years ago. I read about the rangers shooting them in someone's book about their AT thru-hike but I don't remember whose book. Could be it was GSMNP but I still wouldn't assume they aren't living in SNP.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-04-2010, 12:26
She go there hoping to find your carcass on the trail? ;)::: Dino gives John a high five for a great retort :::
I'm with LW - third tag means the bear needs to be put down -- and I'm not one who advocates killing animals for behavior human carelessness caused. This sort of decision is always going to be a balancing act between the right of the animal versus the safety of hikers, backpackers and locals. In this case, i feel the bear's behavior has tip the scale toward putting him down.
Cool AT Breeze
05-04-2010, 12:30
The ranger doing the investagation had his hanging food bag taken by the bear.
LimpsAlong
05-04-2010, 13:02
The ranger doing the investagation had his hanging food bag taken by the bear.
Whoops! Bet the bear didn't know that was the kiss of death right there!
Two Speed
05-04-2010, 13:34
Well, if you were the ranger in question that would satisfy any question in your mind that the bear swipes food, wouldn't it?
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-04-2010, 13:39
advised where? i've never hung a food bag
You haven't hiked in Jersey enough;)
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-04-2010, 13:43
I think a more appropiate thing to do is dart him and tag him. then relocate it. if it comes back then other methods should be used. in the shenandoahs that is what they do. some times people on these threads say some stupid things. when we are hiking we are visitors and it is there home we are hiking in. we have to act in a responsible way so things like this do not happen. I would hope people would respond in a more appropiate way on the threads.
Bronco I would hope that they would dart and reloacte him instead of destroying him, after all, it's not the bears fault.
Two Speed
05-04-2010, 13:45
Pretty sure they have relocated this one.
Lone Wolf
05-04-2010, 14:02
You haven't hiked in Jersey enough;)
i wouldn't bet on that
Blissful
05-04-2010, 14:06
Yes, we should respect the environment and all animals that live where we choose to go, but to say that human beings are 'visitors' to any part of this planet is just plain ridiculous.
That bear needs to be put down before it kills someone.
I agree. The bear is aggressive (maybe even has rabies who knows?). Aggressive dogs that bite are euthanized. Bear bite would be a heck of a lot worse and should not be allowed to come to that. The thing has harassed hikers and destroyed property. Best thing for the bear and for the hikers.
Blissful
05-04-2010, 14:07
You haven't hiked in Jersey enough;)
I never saw one bear in NJ in '07. Though I did use the bearproof lockers
These stories always make me a little sad. Not passing judgment either way, just saying I wish it hadn't come to this.
Official Georgia Department of Natural Resources Wildlife Resources Division's position on problem (imprinted bears)
1. find said bear (already done)
2. trap said bear, tag and relocate
3. trap said bear again, and again tag and relocate
4. third tag is a perminant .40 cal tag behind the ear.
this is the way that it is done. DNR nor the law enforcement division of the USFS have the resources to continuously relocate problem animals. in fact it takes a considerable ammount of time to trap and relocate an animal in the first place, which is done as quickly as possible after it has been determined that people are not causing the problem (removal of bird feeders, trash cans, and such). All problem animals are tagged twice, with no exceptions before it gets the bullet. don't like it? write your congressman.
Migrating Bird
05-04-2010, 16:01
Cool AT Breeze, are you the same Breeze that shuttled me from SMSP to Neel Gap last October to hook up with my daughter and her boyfriend and if so is the bear in question the one you told me about that you could sit down and talk to it? Just curious.
The U.S. Forest Service contacted us to emphasize that plans for the bear operation have not been finalized.
They have been working with GA DNR and will inform agency partners and post notices on their Web site and at A.T. road crossings and trailheads as soon as actions are firmed up and dates have been decided.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
ChinMusic
05-04-2010, 17:23
what's so special about a bear? I had beef in my taco for lunch and I'm pretty sure that cow had never done me any harm. when a bear forgets his place in the food chain then away with him.
best post so far....
Posts about "Food conditioned bears on Blood Mountain" and "Thai Chicken Wraps" on WhiteBlaze............ I'm conflicted.
Posts about "Food conditioned bears on Blood Mountain" and "Thai Chicken Wraps" on WhiteBlaze............ I'm conflicted.
Sounds like you need to eat more fiber and drink lots of water........;):p
Cool AT Breeze
05-04-2010, 23:22
Cool AT Breeze, are you the same Breeze that shuttled me from SMSP to Neel Gap last October to hook up with my daughter and her boyfriend and if so is the bear in question the one you told me about that you could sit down and talk to it? Just curious.
Not the same bear.
Miss Janet
05-05-2010, 00:05
Thanks, Laurie!
Anyone know about any ATers having contact with this bear?
A few weeks after I started at the Walaysi-Yi hostel I started getting hikers nearly every day that had lost thier food between Woods Hole and Blood Mnt. In nearly all of the cases it seemed to be the "Bear Pinata" story as most of these hikers had attempted to bear bag for the first time ever. This bear was getting very well fed and getting more used to people every night. I think his best night was six bags taken.
Unfortunately I was afraid that it would come to this. That early on the AT on what is usually the first long hike for most attempting to thruhike; the learning curve for the hikers and the bears is very sharp and painful.
I am so sorry to hear that this is the only choice.
The ranger doing the investagation had his hanging food bag taken by the bear.
Need I say more?:confused:
Pretty sure they have relocated this one.
To one of the most populated spots on the AT in the spring, effin aye-;)
Two Speed
05-05-2010, 06:49
Sure about that, or did the bear move back to it's happy hunting ground?
9 out of 10 relocated bears migrate back to their original roaming range, which could be up to a couple hundred square miles. however, i did have one at the shop last year that had been tagged in the okefenokee swamp area, and was then tagged in north georgia about 6 months later. last year there were more problem bear reports to DNR than any other year in recorded history, due to lack of food in higher elevations. since this past winter was colder longer than usual, food sources in higher elevations will come in later this spring. until then most bears have moved to lower elevations in search of food. those that have remained higher in the mountains are looking for an easy meal right now.
Oh, and by the way, DNR doesn't relocate bears to heavily used areas, which would include areas near the AT. You would find more relocated problem bears in the cohuttas near the BMT. Unfortunately since the mountain sides in N. Georgia look like freakin Beirut due to the massive migration of people over the last 20 or so years, there just aren't many good locations to place a bad bear. I kinda like warwoman WMA in Rabun County. Rabunites don't mind an easy meal, and they don't burn up the phone when a little black bear the size of a dog tears up their bird feeder.
Sure about that, or did the bear move back to it's happy hunting ground?
No - I'm not.:eek:
I do wonder where this one has been sent in the past and knowing how bears migrate...:-?
I know they didn't let it out on the trail, but I'm thinking- not far enough away.:(
never hung my food. haven't met a black bear yet that thought it was worth going for.
You mean there's still hope.
You mean there's still hope.
yes, there is always hope..:D
::: Dino gives John a high five for a great retort :::
I'm with LW - third tag means the bear needs to be put down -- and I'm not one who advocates killing animals for behavior human carelessness caused. This sort of decision is always going to be a balancing act between the right of the animal versus the safety of hikers, backpackers and locals. In this case, i feel the bear's behavior has tip the scale toward putting him down.
I'd be happier about this thread if we could use blunt words. They bear isn't going to be "euthenized" or "put down." It's going to be killed, shot by a bullet most likely, or several bullets. The bear is going to end up soaked in blood with great holes blasted into it, probably dying in great pain.
Weary
ChinMusic
05-05-2010, 12:55
I'd be happier about this thread if we could use blunt words. They bear isn't going to be "euthenized" or "put down." It's going to be killed, shot by a bullet most likely, or several bullets. The bear is going to end up soaked in blood with great holes blasted into it, probably dying in great pain.
Weary
Would you be happier if they drugged it first and THEN shot it?
Cool AT Breeze
05-05-2010, 14:06
I'd be happier about this thread if we could use blunt words. They bear isn't going to be "euthenized" or "put down." It's going to be killed, shot by a bullet most likely, or several bullets. The bear is going to end up soaked in blood with great holes blasted into it, probably dying in great pain.
Weary
Wrong, in the south we can hit our targets.
So much discussion about the bear. Kill it...don"t kill it.... Many of you have made compelling arguments about the bear's "rights" and others equally have posted the rights of the "hikers/campers." The plain truth is, the bear has become a problem. It doesn't much matter whether it is the fault of humans for not being responsible with their food or the fault of nature for not providing enough food for the bear, something must be done. If someone wishes the bear relocated to their property, I am sure you can apply for a license and request the DNR move the bear to your property. I could easily use this time to talk about the other unjustices in the world....starvation, terriorist attacks, killing innocent people (including the unborn), but I won't (or did I). Let's take care of the bear problem and get back to doing what all of us enjoy doing.....HIKING. :sun
I think a more appropiate thing to do is dart him and tag him. then relocate it. if it comes back then other methods should be used. in the shenandoahs that is what they do. some times people on these threads say some stupid things. when we are hiking we are visitors and it is there home we are hiking in. we have to act in a responsible way so things like this do not happen. I would hope people would respond in a more appropiate way on the threads.
How's your back yard sound? :D
Tinker, you can locate him to my back yard. there will not be any bear bags for him to get. then I will bring him to yuor house for dinner after I have broken him of the bear bag problem.
Since I like bear meat, my back yard probably wouldn't be the preferred relocation spot. :D
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-06-2010, 11:14
I never saw one bear in NJ in '07. Though I did use the bearproof lockers
A rarity today, nobo or sobo?
I'd be happier about this thread if we could use blunt words. They bear isn't going to be "euthenized" or "put down." It's going to be killed, shot by a bullet most likely, or several bullets. The bear is going to end up soaked in blood with great holes blasted into it, probably dying in great pain.
Weary
one shot behind the ear, passing through its brain and, most likely, exiting through the front of its skull somewhere near its eye. sometimes they have to be shot twice, but not usually. i'm sure that it really hurts, but it is fast, extremely lethal, and very cost effective at about 20 cents a pop. what exactly would you have us nice folks at the Department of Natural Resources do instead. overdose on catamine? so, it can defecate all over itself for an hour or so and slowly die of respiratory failure. or maybe hanging would be ok. maybe a bolt gun between the eyes. you can come down here and do it yourself if you wanna get that close to a really angry black bear in a culvert trap. actually, you would have to get in the trap with it, like i do when i put a tag in ones ear. they really like that too.
oh, and by the way, if you stop all brain function immediately, the heart no longer works. therefore, there really isn't all that much blood.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-06-2010, 12:12
Need I say more?:confused:
Just wondering was this Ranger’s food on a bear bag cable or slung over a tree branch. Once a bear or any animal for that matter learns where he can easily obtain food (usually off inexperienced campers) they will 'always' come back for more. In most instances, its not the animals fault as we humans sometime fail to remember and respect the fact that we are just guest in their neighborhood. Humans sometimes condition animal behavior, especially when we behave like them. As I've heard it said more than a few times, maybe those planning a long distance or thru-hike of the AT should be offered a knowledge questionnaire (maybe given by ATC or even this site). At least you would have an idea of that individual’s weaknesses so that that advice or assistance could be offered to them in those area thus possibly helping to correct a situation before it arises. Ridgerunners can only do so much.
Two Speed
05-06-2010, 12:18
. . . that had been tagged in the okefenokee swamp area, and was then tagged in north georgia about 6 months later . . .
. . . I know they didn't let it out on the trail, but I'm thinking- not far enough away.:(Define "far enough."
Define "far enough."
I was thinking Canada eh ;)
generoll
05-06-2010, 12:32
FWIW, I don't think anything has been done yet. Still time for someone to come on down and adopt the bear and take him home with you.
I think it is in some sections. Here's a link:
http://sierrawild.gov/bears/
Interesting what- rangers- think of the PCT method.:eek:
i stopped at Woods Hole on April 10th and saw the WARNING note posted that morning. Sounds like its his time...
Two Speed
05-06-2010, 12:55
FWIW, I don't think anything has been done yet. Still time for someone to come on down and adopt the bear and take him home with you.I'll do it!!! Just keep him at your place for a coupla weeks, OK?
generoll
05-06-2010, 13:13
Sure, we cooking at your place?
http://www.hunttheoutdoors.com/features/recipes/bear/index.php
i can put you boys on some wild pigs ifn you want something really tasty.
I was thinking Canada eh ;)
Alaska. he'll have lots of friends. the only place where you go fishing and they give you a 12 guage.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-06-2010, 14:01
I suggest we begin tagging and relocating some hikers!
Amen to that!
Amen to that!
relocate to where? i like st. lucia.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-06-2010, 14:05
You're right, some people do say stupid things. Like saying it is their home and we are just 'visitors'. LOLOL. Yes, we should respect the environment and all animals that live where we choose to go, but to say that human beings are 'visitors' to any part of this planet is just plain ridiculous.
That bear needs to be put down before it kills someone.
If you live outdoors like most wild creatures do 24/7/365 then I guess your not 'a visitor'.
Two Speed
05-06-2010, 15:55
Sure, we cooking at your place?
http://www.hunttheoutdoors.com/features/recipes/bear/index.phpI dunno. More room at your place.
i can put you boys on some wild pigs ifn you want something really tasty.Love to, but have absolutely no idea what do with a pig if I shot one.
SGT Rock
05-06-2010, 15:58
I ran into a hunter the other day on the BMT that had shot a hog. I asked him to please shoot more of them.
no doubt. they breed like rabbits
SGT Rock
05-06-2010, 16:10
They can screw up a trail too.
like a roto tiller. they like my food plots at work too.
Graywolf
05-07-2010, 07:51
Tastes kinda like a cross between spotted owl and bald eagle.
Thats a poor shot at our national symbol..I think you should rephrase that..I for one LOVE my country and the outdoors..The Bald Eagle represents both..
Graywolf
Gray Blazer
05-07-2010, 07:57
Thats a poor shot at our national symbol..I think you should rephrase that..I for one LOVE my country and the outdoors..The Bald Eagle represents both..
Graywolf
Sorry ... tastes like a cross between manatee and Bald Eagle.
You better not have been one of those who wore an American Flag on cinco de mayo.
BTW ... :D.
Graywolf
05-07-2010, 08:05
Sorry ... tastes like a cross between manatee and Bald Eagle.
You better not have been one of those who wore an American Flag on cinco de mayo.
BTW ... :D.
Actually, I fly my US Flag on Cinco de Mayo evrytime..FLY IT High..
Gray Blazer
05-07-2010, 09:39
Actually, I fly my US Flag on Cinco de Mayo evrytime..FLY IT High..
Amen, Brother!
I'm going to Springer in a little over two weeks; is the bear in question dead or still pillaging ?
Cool AT Breeze
05-07-2010, 11:19
He seems to have moved on. He'll be back.
max patch
05-07-2010, 11:24
He seems to have moved on.
Apparently bears can read.
Cool AT Breeze
05-07-2010, 11:43
He must have interweb.
Thats a poor shot at our national symbol..I think you should rephrase that..I for one LOVE my country and the outdoors..The Bald Eagle represents both..
Graywolf
Right. Let's have some respect for carrion eaters.
Right. Let's have some respect for carrion eaters.
Eagles are carrion eaters?? I thought they hunted.
Eagles are carrion eaters?? I thought they hunted.
For a good part, Bald Eagles are scavengers. They are hunters, I think mostly hunting fish, but they also just eat whatever they can find, much more so than other raptors.
Ben Franklin opposed making the eagle the national bird. He preferred the wild turkey to a critter that survives largely by scavenging dead animals and fish.
Ben obviously was wrong. The world respects eagles. No one respects critters that eat seeds and grains, as us environmentalists have learned.
Weary
berkshirebirder
05-07-2010, 14:56
But, Weary, if it's true...the wild turkey also will drown itself drinking rain water as it falls from the sky. Now THERE'S a national symbol for ya!
I'd stick with the eagle.
Gray Blazer
05-07-2010, 17:06
I want to hear more about this beer operation on Blood Mnt.
I've seen eagles grabbing live squirrels out of trees and sitting on a stump holding the squirrel in one claw while biting chunks out of it. I've also seen them on the side of the road eating carrion with the vultures.
What're you gonna do? You gotta eat.
I've seen eagles grabbing live squirrels out of trees and sitting on a stump holding the squirrel in one claw while biting chunks out of it. I've also seen them on the side of the road eating carrion with the vultures.
Well, different breeds of eagles are different. Golden Eagles for example, are much more of a predator than the Bald Eagle.
I want to hear more about this beer operation on Blood Mnt.
I've seen eagles grabbing live squirrels out of trees and sitting on a stump holding the squirrel in one claw while biting chunks out of it. I've also seen them on the side of the road eating carrion with the vultures.
What're you gonna do? You gotta eat.
beer operation? i am in the car!
generoll
05-07-2010, 18:14
shotgun!...........
generoll
05-07-2010, 18:15
oh wait, can I sit in the back seat with Kanga?
I want to hear more about this beer operation on Blood Mnt.
Mmmmmmm.... beeeer. ;)
Alaska. he'll have lots of friends. the only place where you go fishing and they give you a 12 guage.
I Hike throught the Chugach mountains last year on the Crow Pass Trail. Close enough to tsmall the bear but didn't see any; just saw the dung and paw prints both of Black and Grizzly. I'm sure this one would have had plenty of friends.
The temporary A.T. closure between Flatrock Gap and Bird Gap is in effect starting today. For more information, go to www.appalachiantrail.org/updates.
Laurie P.
Generally speaking, how long do closures like this last?
Trailsailor
05-11-2010, 12:59
I was at Neels Gap last week and talked to one of the bear's food victims. He told me he had hung his food using the bear cables at Woods Hole Shelter. That night he heard a noise, looked out his tent and saw a large bear pouncing on the cable until it broke and his food came down. So it wasn't a matter of not hanging the food properly, just a bear that has learned to throw its weight around.
M1 Thumb
05-11-2010, 13:16
Would it be better to hang the bag in a tree away from camp and not use the provided cables or poles? This question is based on being able to hang a bag at a sufficient height using either using a counterbalance method or the PCT method.
Ben Franklin opposed making the eagle the national bird. He preferred the wild turkey to a critter that survives largely by scavenging dead animals and fish.
Ben obviously was wrong. The world respects eagles. No one respects critters that eat seeds and grains, as us environmentalists have learned.
Weary
He also flew a kite with a key attached in a lightning storm, also probably not the best idea. :-?
Would it be better to hang the bag in a tree away from camp and not use the provided cables or poles? This question is based on being able to hang a bag at a sufficient height using either using a counterbalance method or the PCT method.
There isn't a better way to bring in bears from miles around for a free meal, but don't take my word for it as I've only limited experience. Give me a second and I'll show you where to look at what the experts think.
I think it is in some sections. Here's a link:
http://sierrawild.gov/bears/
Here ya go...:)
Thanks for providing this as I don't know links. First hand knowlege works for me.:eek:
All bear baggers should click on FAQ and scroll down to- Can I protect my food by hanging?:-?
Its almost word for word what I've been saying for years.;)
and where to look on that link :)
and where to look on that link :)
Maybe you've said it already, but if we're not supposed to hang our food, then the only viable option is a cannister? On the AT?
Ladytrekker
05-11-2010, 14:58
I am hiking this sectin in two weeks. Is the Freeman Trail well marked and does anybody know how long that detour is mileage wise? I really wanted to see Blood I hope this is all cleared up soon. I don't want to see the bears hurt though.
I am hiking this sectin in two weeks. Is the Freeman Trail well marked and does anybody know how long that detour is mileage wise? I really wanted to see Blood I hope this is all cleared up soon. I don't want to see the bears hurt though.
I actually did the Freeman Trail. It was very rocky and in few places not terribly well marked. I don't recall any water, either. But you're not going to get lost or anything -- just a few places where you have to pause and look about a bit to see a blaze.
the freeman trail is 1.8 miles. easy hike but rocky. kinda slow in places. 2 water sources and a nice water fall on the down hill side a little off the trail.
don't need blazes, just follow the footpath.
max patch
05-11-2010, 15:41
I am hiking this sectin in two weeks. Is the Freeman Trail well marked and does anybody know how long that detour is mileage wise? I really wanted to see Blood I hope this is all cleared up soon. I don't want to see the bears hurt though.
1.8 miles, you won't lose the trail, i'd be shocked if the closure is still in place 2 weeks from now.
Maybe you've said it already, but if we're not supposed to hang our food, then the only viable option is a cannister? On the AT?
Back when- it was a canister, a bear box, or 24hr. guard- read: keep your food with you, like you would during the day. You can't be stupid about it though and be weaing perfumes and using honeysuckle shampoos and such. Can't leave food laying around. I smell proof my things as best I know how and guard it because I feel that is the safest way to avoid a bear..... and keep from getting a bear killed... or habituated to where they might hurt someone.:(
A bear is a bear-- on the PCT or AT.;) East coast procedures are still behind the curve on this and thus the bear poles and lines. That has more to do with policies and politics IMO. You see the results here.
Ladytrekker
05-15-2010, 21:22
Temporary A.T. closure between Flatrock Gap and Bird Gap lifted
GEORGIA - The Forest Service lifted the temporary closure of the A.T. across Blood Mountain on Friday, May 14. However, bears continue to be active in the area. Users should continue to take all necessary steps to secure food items, including considering the use of bear-proof food containers. If problems persist, additional periods of Trail closure may become necessary. For more information on hiking in bear country, see our wildlife information (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805489/k.95BA/Health_and_Safety.htm#wildlife) Web page. (Posted 05/14/10)
Will be hiking this section within the next week, should I be concerned. I am using a small plastic dry bag and I have a 50 ft cord with a carabiner is there anything else I should know. thanks.
royalusa
05-16-2010, 13:48
I hiked in the Blood Mountain area yesterday. Walked by Slaughter Creek campsites in the morning and spoke to the hikers who had spent the night there - all (or perhaps most?) of them had their food taken by a bear that night. The one food bag we saw appeared to have been tied right to the trunk of the tree at less than 5'! But other hikers said that they had their food bag hung properly from a tree limb and the bear still got it (despite 2 dogs being in camp and barking). They said the bear has learned to pull on the limb so that the food bag starts to swing and then the bear grabs it and pulls it down. If you leave very little rope hanging over the limb, that may remove part of the risk...or use the PCT style of hanging (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE) or a bear vault food canister or ursack product or stay at the shelters with bear cables. Most of the bear incidents that I'm hearing about seem to be plus/minus 5 miles from Neels Gap at campsites (vs. shelters).
I hiked in the Blood Mountain area yesterday. Walked by Slaughter Creek campsites in the morning and spoke to the hikers who had spent the night there - all (or perhaps most?) of them had their food taken by a bear that night. The one food bag we saw appeared to have been tied right to the trunk of the tree at less than 5'! But other hikers said that they had their food bag hung properly from a tree limb and the bear still got it (despite 2 dogs being in camp and barking). They said the bear has learned to pull on the limb so that the food bag starts to swing and then the bear grabs it and pulls it down. If you leave very little rope hanging over the limb, that may remove part of the risk...or use the PCT style of hanging (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE) or a bear vault food canister or ursack product or stay at the shelters with bear cables. Most of the bear incidents that I'm hearing about seem to be plus/minus 5 miles from Neels Gap at campsites (vs. shelters).
Shoulda turned the dogs loose...
SGT Rock
05-16-2010, 14:39
Slept up at Flatrock gap a couple of weeks ago. I just slept with my food. No issues.
Pedaling Fool
05-16-2010, 15:21
I will also continue to sleep with my food in the tent using just regular nylon bags. But I've noticed one thing about hanging food and that is many people really don't hang it correctly, but it's not always their fault. It is sometimes difficult to find the perfect (or even suitable) tree for hanging.
I will also continue to sleep with my food in the tent using just regular nylon bags. But I've noticed one thing about hanging food and that is many people really don't hang it correctly, but it's not always their fault. It is sometimes difficult to find the perfect (or even suitable) tree for hanging.
That's certainly been my experience over the years. I've never had my stuff ripped off on the AT -- probably because I mostly have hiked in New England, where bears are still hunted, and therefore are shy around humans.
But I was ripped off one night in Yosemite. We had camped in a hurry, when what by eastern standards, looked like an imminent downpour. It didn't rain. As wiser folks later told us it rarely does in August, despite appearances.
WE hung our packs on the best branch we could quickly find that met the bear-proofing instructions of the park service. It took the bear just three minutes to get them down. We walked 14 miles the next morning before breakfast.
Weary
scooterdogma
05-18-2010, 07:58
We use OP-sacks inside a nylon bag for our food and scent items. They work really well. As a test I put a steak in one, sealed it up and threw it on the living room floor. My 3 dogs looked at it and then ignored it. I left it there for a couple of hours, no problem. When on that part of the AT, we didn't use the bear cables. We hung our food in the PCT method as it is near to impossible to find good limbs. We also located it about a 100 yards from where we were sleeping. Never lost a bag. Worked for us.
Pedaling Fool
05-18-2010, 09:13
We use OP-sacks inside a nylon bag for our food and scent items. They work really well. As a test I put a steak in one, sealed it up and threw it on the living room floor. My 3 dogs looked at it and then ignored it. I left it there for a couple of hours, no problem. When on that part of the AT, we didn't use the bear cables. We hung our food in the PCT method as it is near to impossible to find good limbs. We also located it about a 100 yards from where we were sleeping. Never lost a bag. Worked for us.
Dogs have pretty good sense of smell, so I'm not sure if they did NOT smell the steak, it's not like they need that steak for survival.
But we will never know and it doesn't matter because it's irrelevant. During the hike all your stuff gets a smell of food on it because you handle that food and then handle the bags, so regardless of how smell-proof your bag is, it will smell like food.
scooterdogma
05-18-2010, 13:22
LOL, you don't know my dogs. They will go to the mat for a crumb. If they could have smelled that meat, it would have been a free for all.
Sir-Packs-Alot
06-08-2010, 21:29
Thanks, Laurie!
Anyone know about any ATers having contact with this bear?
I was hiking here in mid April when I woke up to see this huge bear climbing a small tree that had grown up between where the cable was. It was quite a sight to see this large bear go up a 4'' wide tree - then reach out and knock bearbags to the ground with one swipe.
Too bad. A fed bear is a dead bear. Let's hope we don't have to euthanize too many because of our bad "feeding" practices!
Lone Wolf
06-08-2010, 21:35
Too bad. A fed bear is a dead bear. Let's hope we don't have to euthanize too many because of our bad "feeding" practices!
sleep with your food. end of problem
Incahiker
06-11-2010, 12:47
Anyone ever carry fire crackers with them so if a bear does come stumbling into a camp site you can light a string of black cats and make it sound like you are unloading an automatic rifle right by the bears ear? I always carry them with me, but have never had to use them. But I figured it would work pretty good as there hearing is very sensitive. Then if that doesn't work, oh well. Have the rangers ever gone out and shot a bear with something like rock salt out of a 12 gauge or perhaps rubber bullets? I don't know how good it would do, but if it worked then a bear sure as hell would not want to get close to a human ever again because of our boom sticks.
Anyways, too bad for the bear. Once a problem bear always a problem bear. They still hunt bear down here too, so I guess any hunters reading this will know where to go to get a quick kill.
daddytwosticks
06-11-2010, 15:38
I carry five or six loose firecrackers with me on every hike for this very purpose. I haven't had to use them yet...maybe I need to hike on the fourth of July or New Years? :)
ChinMusic
06-11-2010, 15:48
I kinda like the idea of a string of black cats. They weigh next to nothing and could come in handy for a critter that needs more convincing to leave.
Incahiker
06-11-2010, 23:45
Ya man, I just leave them stringed up and never take them apart. Carry 2 packs. Those things are loud as hell even on July the 4th when everyone else is shooting off fireworks, I couldn't imagine the noise in the middle of the forest. Everything would run from that. Throw it at the bear when they are about to go off and I am sure he wouldn't be coming back for a little while.
Sierra Echo
06-12-2010, 07:07
And what are you going to do when you end up setting the woods on fire?
Extinguish it with your bottle of water?
daddytwosticks
06-13-2010, 13:33
I personally have not had to use my few firecrackers ever and hope I never have to resort to them. It's been a long time since I've played with firecrackers...I don't think one or two tossed in the direction of a curious bear would start a forest fire...:)
TinaLouise
06-14-2010, 07:47
I'm needing some info on this section... I'm heading to Blood Mountain in 2 weeks (the last week in June) to do a section. I'm going with a Boy Scout troop (6 people total) and that's our first day's hike. We're going south bound starting at Tesnatee Gap. We're trying to decide whether to "go for it" and hike over Blood Mountain and camp on the south side of it or to do a shorter day and hike to near Neels Gap and do Blood mountain the 2nd day. Questions would be, is there anywhere to camp at close to Neels Gap? And if we did hike over Blood Mountain (starting at Tesnatee) about what would be the milage to a camp site. (and where is this camp site???)
From what I'm reading here, it sounds like this section is still closed to camping?? So we've got to hike far enough to get past Jarrerd gap??
Thanks for any insites and info,
TinaLouise
Sierra Echo
06-14-2010, 07:51
I personally have not had to use my few firecrackers ever and hope I never have to resort to them. It's been a long time since I've played with firecrackers...I don't think one or two tossed in the direction of a curious bear would start a forest fire...:)
I bet your also the kind of person who throws lit cigarettes into bushes too.
ChinMusic
06-14-2010, 09:39
I bet your also the kind of person who throws lit cigarettes into bushes too.
What a bunch of crap. This is such a pathetic declaration. The worst of WB.
Sierra Echo
06-14-2010, 10:46
What a bunch of crap. This is such a pathetic declaration. The worst of WB.
So give me an award. But I'm not the one talking about setting fireworks off in the middle of the forest. Now THAT is just stupid. All it takes is one to start a fire then they are just gonna stand there with a stupid look on their face. And probably blame it all on the bear too! :rolleyes:
Don't use firecrackers to scare off bears in Maine -- if you are into obeying laws. Maine law specifically prohibits having fire crackers in your possession.
However, bears tend not to be a problem in Maine, though we have more of the critters than any other trail state. They rarely disturb food regardless of whether you hang your food in trees.
We have a training program for bears that far exceeds that of any other state. We allow hunters to stash donuts, and stale bread all through the woods and then shoot any bear that dares disturb it.
Weary
daddytwosticks
06-14-2010, 14:48
Was all set to have a nice sarcastic comeback to counter having my actions called stupid on an internet forum. Why bother? I'm going out in the heat for a nice walk. Maybe I'll run into a bear.
Don't use firecrackers to scare off bears in Maine -- if you are into obeying laws. Maine law specifically prohibits having fire crackers in your possession.
Pennsylvania too!
However, bears tend not to be a problem in Maine, though we have more of the critters than any other trail state.
Without data I can link to claim otherwise, I'll accept your claim, but ours are bigger on average.
We have a training program for bears that far exceeds that of any other state. We allow hunters to stash donuts, and stale bread all through the woods and then shoot any bear that dares disturb it.
Can't say I've ever seen bear-baiting promoted so effectively here. Keep it up and before long people might stop speaking out against it.
ChinMusic
06-14-2010, 15:49
Was all set to have a nice sarcastic comeback to counter having my actions called stupid on an internet forum. Why bother?
LOL, good point. No point in fighting stupid.
Graywolf
06-14-2010, 19:27
Was all set to have a nice sarcastic comeback to counter having my actions called stupid on an internet forum. Why bother? I'm going out in the heat for a nice walk. Maybe I'll run into a bear.
Agreed, its time for a nice little stroll..
Sierra Echo
06-14-2010, 20:13
LOL, good point. No point in fighting stupid.
If you think it is smart to throw lit pieces of paper in the woods, then maybe you need to stay out of them. :rolleyes:
I shouldn't have to explain that to an adult.
ChinMusic
06-14-2010, 20:26
If you think it is smart to throw lit pieces of paper in the woods, then maybe you need to stay out of them. :rolleyes:
I shouldn't have to explain that to an adult.
I don't think you have a grasp on how one would handle the firecracker. I fully understand that you don't understand how it could be used. Most of the woods are not a tinder box. SOME of us have common sense.
Not my problem.
Some bears are destined to become problems, and so you have to selectively kill them, in order to keep the population from becoming a significant threat to humans. That is how we coexist with them, and it works, and has for thousands of years. Sometimes relocating works, but sometimes it is at best a zero sum game, because another male ends up getting pushed into contact and conditioning.
For sure, we should reduce the availability of human food, but even is we did that better, we would still need to manage the bear population through selective h
Oops. Anyhow, I meant to say even if people were more careful, you would still have to manage the bear population, not so much to keep the numbers down, but to keep the population less curious, by selecting out the more curious.
Sierra Echo
06-14-2010, 20:58
I don't think you have a grasp on how one would handle the firecracker. I fully understand that you don't understand how it could be used. Most of the woods are not a tinder box. SOME of us have common sense.
Not my problem.
I don't think you have common sense, but thats just my opinion.
By the time you got a fire cracker out of your pocket and lit, a bear would have bitten your sack off. Interpret that how you like.
I don't think you have common sense, but thats just my opinion.
By the time you got a fire cracker out of your pocket and lit, a bear would have bitten your sack off. Interpret that how you like.
Hello. Welcome to reality. It's so nice some of us even live here!
Graywolf
06-14-2010, 21:47
That is how we coexist with them, and it works, and has for thousands of years.
where do you get your information on "...for thousands of years."?? I think the Natives lived at harmony and peace with the bears, and the Cherokees even named a clan after bears..They never would kill a bear just to kill..Remember, white man brought over the "killing" sprees to N.A. Lots of animals have become near extinct, to extinct, because of these tatics..
Man has made his own dicision on living out of harmony with nature. When we enter the Mountains, we enter their world. We should respect that, just as one would respect someone elses home..
Graywolf
where do you get your information on "...for thousands of years."?? I think the Natives lived at harmony and peace with the bears, and the Cherokees even named a clan after bears..They never would kill a bear just to kill..Remember, white man brought over the "killing" sprees to N.A. Lots of animals have become near extinct, to extinct, because of these tatics.....raywolf
Well, one can't quarrel with what others "think." I find thoughts pretty uncontrollable.
But I also think that the belief that "natives" "lived in harmony and peace with the bears," is tinged by ignorance, and perhaps even, racial prejudice.
Ah, yes. Prejudice takes many forms. Equally offensive are those that think other races can do nothing right, and those who believe they can do no wrong.
Weary
Sierra Echo
06-14-2010, 23:43
Hello. Welcome to reality. It's so nice some of us even live here!
I think I might stay for awhile, if you don't mind!
Gray Blazer
06-15-2010, 00:22
Lots of hikers carry firecrackers to scare the bears.
Plains Indians would drive hundreds of buffalo over cliffs.
I live in reality.
One of these statements is not true.
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 00:22
Well, one can't quarrel with what others "think." I find thoughts pretty uncontrollable.
But I also think that the belief that "natives" "lived in harmony and peace with the bears," is tinged by ignorance, and perhaps even, racial prejudice.
Ah, yes. Prejudice takes many forms. Equally offensive are those that think other races can do nothing right, and those who believe they can do no wrong.
Weary
How is my remark racist?? Please do tell me.. I am saying this from the writings from 500 nations that existed before white man came to this land. And I am Native..I can tell you what I know. It is nt from ignorance, but from experiance..
TinaLouise
06-15-2010, 09:28
Hey all, way back at post #154, I asked some questions about Blood Mountain... Is this the wrong place for those questions?? I'm really needing the info and if this is the wrong place for them, could someone direct me to where I can find answers??? Thanks, TinaLouise
LimpsAlong
06-15-2010, 10:12
I bet your also the kind of person who throws lit cigarettes into bushes too.
Not me! Bushes don't burn too good. I flick ALL my butts into dry piles of leaves.
max patch
06-15-2010, 10:47
Hey all, way back at post #154, I asked some questions about Blood Mountain... Is this the wrong place for those questions?? I'm really needing the info and if this is the wrong place for them, could someone direct me to where I can find answers??? Thanks, TinaLouise
Well, you may be alright...the Forest Service with a clear case of double speak says that camping is prohibited until furthur notice, however, the written order gives a closure date until June 21. Hopefully the ban will be lifted when you hike.
It is 11 miles from Tesnatee to Jarrard; there are obvious campsites there and a very short way down the old FS road. There are also campsites before Neels. Check your trail guide for details.
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 11:46
Well, you may be alright...the Forest Service with a clear case of double speak says that camping is prohibited until furthur notice, however, the written order gives a closure date until June 21. Hopefully the ban will be lifted when you hike.
It is 11 miles from Tesnatee to Jarrard; there are obvious campsites there and a very short way down the old FS road. There are also campsites before Neels. Check your trail guide for details.
Hey Thanks. I didnt know about the June 21 date.. I am leaving out on the 28th of July, so maybe Ill be ok..
Graywolf
TinaLouise
06-15-2010, 12:24
the Forest Service with a clear case of double speak says that camping is prohibited until furthur notice, however, the written order gives a closure date until June 21. Hopefully the ban will be lifted when you hike.
.
thanks, I'll be there around the end of June, so I'll see what I see.
I'll update after I get back home.
TinaLouise
....I am saying this from the writings from 500 nations that existed before white man came to this land. And I am Native..I can tell you what I know. It is nt from ignorance, but from experiance..
I doubt if 500 "nations" had a written language before the white man came to this land. Scholars have found evidence of one or two written languages from cultures located south of what is now the United States. No written languages seem to have existed in the area that now has the 50 states and Canada.
I tend to doubt the authenticity of stories based on oral legends written down centuries and millenia after the events being described, regardless of the race -- or religion -- involved. YMMV.
Weary
Lone Wolf
06-15-2010, 13:56
And I am Native..I can tell you what I know. It is nt from ignorance, but from experiance..
oh really? what tribe you run with?
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 14:13
I doubt if 500 "nations" had a written language before the white man came to this land. Scholars have found evidence of one or two written languages from cultures located south of what is now the United States. No written langues seem to have existed in the area that now has the 50 states and Canada.
I tend to doubt the authenticity of stories based on oral legends written down centuries and millenia after the events being described, regardless of the race -- or religion -- involved. YMMV.
Weary
They maynot have had a written language, except for the Cherokees, but they did have a lot of other ways of communication like the petroglyphs in the southwest.. Sorry you feel the way you do..The Native way was a peaceful way, until the white man stole it..hmmmmm...
Oh, by the way, Lonewolf, I'm Choctaw..
ChinMusic
06-15-2010, 14:50
They maynot have had a written language, except for the Cherokees, but they did have a lot of other ways of communication like the petroglyphs in the southwest.. Sorry you feel the way you do..The Native way was a peaceful way, until the white man stole it..hmmmmm...
Oh, by the way, Lonewolf, I'm Choctaw..
The Cherokee didn't have a written language til about 100 years ago.
The NAs kicked some serious ass on their neighbors all the time prior to Europeans dominating. The French documented much of this with their first contacts. It is a myth that the NAs were just peace-loving people. They were flawed just like us.
Oh, by the way, Graywolf, the Cherokee are my peeps......;)
They maynot have had a written language, except for the Cherokees, but they did have a lot of other ways of communication like the petroglyphs in the southwest.. Sorry you feel the way you do..The Native way was a peaceful way, until the white man stole it..hmmmmm...
Oh, by the way, Lonewolf, I'm Choctaw..
Are you telling us the tribes didn't fight among themselves. Or were they just peaceful in their relationships with bears?
full conditions
06-15-2010, 15:05
They maynot have had a written language, except for the Cherokees, but they did have a lot of other ways of communication like the petroglyphs in the southwest.. Sorry you feel the way you do..The Native way was a peaceful way, until the white man stole it..hmmmmm...
Oh, by the way, Lonewolf, I'm Choctaw..
Oh sweet, sweet irony. Here we are posting on a thread about Blood Mountain which, as legend has it, was the site of a major clash between the Cherokee and Creek - a fight that took place long before Europeans ever showed up - and you come up with some silly nonsense about native americans being a bunch of pacifists.
Regardless about the truth of the legend of Blood Mountain, the archeology (not to mention the stories from native americans themselves) bears out that NA's were every bit as war-like as any other ethnic group around the world.
The Cherokee didn't have a written language til about 100 years ago.......)
My sources say the Cherokee language was first put into written form after twelve years of dedicated work by a tribe member, Sequoyah. He allegedly finished the Cherokee syllabary only in 1821.
Weary, who legend had claimed had at least one "native American" among his ancestors.
Sadly, a daughter last fall investigated the facts, and disappointed us all by tracing the legend to a woman who is only related by marriage.
The whole Weary clan now feels diminished.
ChinMusic
06-15-2010, 15:24
My sources say the Cherokee language was first put into written form after twelve years of dedicated work by a tribe member, Sequoyah. He allegedly finished the Cherokee syllabary only in 1821.
Yep, you got me....~200 years. Time flies...........:D
berkshirebirder
06-15-2010, 16:21
I tend to doubt the authenticity of stories based on oral legends written down centuries and millenia after the events being described, regardless of the race -- or religion -- involved. YMMV.
My mileage varies. I tend to doubt the authenticity of stories broadcast or published years, weeks, even minutes after the events being described.
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 17:03
My GoD, I love this site.. I never did say Natives did not fight among them selves, and yes, Blood Mountain is a very sacred site between Cherokees and Choctaws, and yes, Sequoia was said to be the one to give the Cherokees a language..Man!! But it was also said that when the Europeans came over and decided to rampage over Native lands, some Nations banded together to fight for their lands..Dont try to change history because of a little thread. read you history.. or read history as it was originally written, not the way the Gov wants you to believe. We are talking about a bear on Blood Mountain taking peoples food, not ancestorial blood lines.. Lets get back to the point...
But then if thats the way you see it, this isuppose to be a site on people who love the outdoors, and wildlife comes with it..
Philetus
06-15-2010, 17:07
My family is from the piedmont of North Carolina (about 100 miles SE of the Trail). It's kind of difficult to *not* have some Cherokee in your bloodline around here...
....I tend to doubt the authenticity of stories broadcast or published years, weeks, even minutes after the events being described.
Of course, we all do. Now ponder the likely accuracy of a story reported by word of mouth over several thousand years. And if you continue to believe that oral traditions are more valid than the written kind, ponder the details of that birding adventure as you first told it. And compare the precision of your account after a decade of telling.
Weary
Read.....history as it was originally written, not the way the Gov wants you to believe. ....
Come on now. No politics. History isn't written by governments, well, not always. Those Phd's are the villains. I say history should be by popular vote. Not based on those ancient legends, documents and archeology.
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 17:51
Come on now. No politics. History isn't written by governments, well, not always. Those Phd's are the villains. I say history should be by popular vote. Not based on those ancient legends, documents and archeology.
Ok, Weary, Here is my historical view: Millions of years ago, ltes say, 65 million years ago, some dumbarse, came and found Earth, but because the inhabitant at the time were considered too big and dangerous, he thought it a wise idea to just bomb the place, right smack off a penisula off the Mexican coast line, namely the Yucatan..He then went back and brought 2 of each kind of animal from his dying planet and released them on the Earth, but then the Earth went into a ice age and most animals died out of froze in the Siberian tungra. Later, when it began to warm up, he then was abl to colonize the planet. Then, after 2 million years he thought it was wise to begin the industrial revolution, which has now depleted the Oxygen in the atmosphere and only 6% of the rainforest are left on Earth but the CO2 gases has increased by 35%, slowly suffocating his dear Earth. Then his partner, BP decidedly to make an error on one of his drill rigs in the Gulf, now thousands of gallons of oil is spilling onto the beaches of the Gulf States..Along with that, we have another dumb arse who decides that he wants to be a backpacker but teh animals, once again are carnivoris and big and furry, so he wants to shoot all them too. Hmmm, history repeats itself once again..Now, for something completely different..
Graywolf
ChinMusic
06-15-2010, 17:57
Ok, Weary, Here is my historical view: Millions of years ago, ltes say, 65 million years ago, some dumbarse, came and found Earth, but because the inhabitant at the time were considered too big and dangerous, he thought it a wise idea to just bomb the place, right smack off a penisula off the Mexican coast line, namely the Yucatan..He then went back and brought 2 of each kind of animal from his dying planet and released them on the Earth, but then the Earth went into a ice age and most animals died out of froze in the Siberian tungra. Later, when it began to warm up, he then was abl to colonize the planet. Then, after 2 million years he thought it was wise to begin the industrial revolution, which has now depleted the Oxygen in the atmosphere and only 6% of the rainforest are left on Earth but the CO2 gases has increased by 35%, slowly suffocating his dear Earth. Then his partner, BP decidedly to make an error on one of his drill rigs in the Gulf, now thousands of gallons of oil is spilling onto the beaches of the Gulf States..Along with that, we have another dumb arse who decides that he wants to be a backpacker but teh animals, once again are carnivoris and big and furry, so he wants to shoot all them too. Hmmm, history repeats itself once again..Now, for something completely different..
Graywolf
Interesting story. You ought to write a book.
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 18:17
Interesting story. You ought to write a book.
I actualy have a picture, im trying to locate it so I can post it. Its a picture of Noahs Ark, but he made 2 arks, one with modern day animals and the other with the dinosaurs. An elephant and a Giraffe is shooting a missle at the Dino Ark.. It really is a hoot..I think Weary would get a kick out of it..
Lone Wolf
06-15-2010, 20:26
My GoD, I love this site.. I never did say Natives did not fight among them selves, and yes, Blood Mountain is a very sacred site between Cherokees and Choctaws
Choctaws weren't there. Creeks were.
Sierra Echo
06-15-2010, 21:04
The Blood Mountain fight was between the Cherokees and the Creeks.
Gray Blazer
06-15-2010, 23:33
The Blood Mountain fight was between the Cherokees and the Creeks.
Now it's between the hikers and the packsniffers.
Graywolf
06-15-2010, 23:45
Choctaws weren't there. Creeks were.
Opps, your right. Just made a mistake.. Guess I gotr ahead of my typing, which is the norm..I have a friend who is Creek. He talks about that all the time..
Thanks for the heads up..
Graywolf
bloodmountainman
06-16-2010, 06:22
Now it's between the hikers and the packsniffers.
Correction......the conflict today is between wannbe "outdoorsmen" and bears. Re-route the trail. It's a great mountain to play on. Way to much drama going on these todays!
Sierra Echo
06-16-2010, 07:07
Correction......the conflict today is between wannbe "outdoorsmen" and bears. Re-route the trail. It's a great mountain to play on. Way to much drama going on these todays!
If you are gonna be PC then its between the outdoorsPERSON and bears.
I see no war. I am visiting their home. And if they get angry and wanna try to throw me out, then they have every right.
LimpsAlong
06-16-2010, 08:48
If you are gonna be PC then its between the outdoorsPERSON and bears.
I see no war. I am visiting their home. And if they get angry and wanna try to throw me out, then they have every right.
"I am visiting their home"
Well, that pretty much explains it all right there. Another victim of defective reasoning. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Sierra Echo
06-16-2010, 15:19
"I am visiting their home"
Well, that pretty much explains it all right there. Another victim of defective reasoning. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
I hope you used mouth wash aftewards.
My GoD, I love this site.. I never did say Natives did not fight among them selves, and yes, Blood Mountain is a very sacred site between Cherokees and Choctaws, and yes, Sequoia was said to be the one to give the Cherokees a language..Man!! But it was also said that when the Europeans came over and decided to rampage over Native lands, some Nations banded together to fight for their lands..Dont try to change history because of a little thread. read you history.. or read history as it was originally written, not the way the Gov wants you to believe. We are talking about a bear on Blood Mountain taking peoples food, not ancestorial blood lines.. Lets get back to the point...
But then if thats the way you see it, this isuppose to be a site on people who love the outdoors, and wildlife comes with it..Well I never said that Native Americans killed bears just for killing, so I guess that makes us even.
What I was trying to say was that in many areas, such as New Brunswick, it was common practice to hunt Black Bear for food by dragging them out of their den during the winter, and killing them before they woke up too much. They could tell by the 'smoke from the wigwam' whether it was a male bear, or a female with cubs, and they would selectively choose male bears rather than females with cubs. The practice of selection is similar today, although the hunting methods are different. The effect is the change in demographics. Killing agressive bears in self-defence would also effect the demographics.
That's the point I was trying to make anyway. Not claiming its all fact, just opinion mostly. I think part of living 'in harmony' with potentially problematic species like bears, wolves, eastern coyotes, cougars is a getting involved in the process of natural selection. It has to be done for the right reasons, i.e. not for sport or commercial gain. It has to be done with consideration to the long term result. It also has to be done with humility, because nature is complex, and we can't possible know all the answers.
I agree that it is somewhat questionable whether or not we can be part of a 'natural' selection process, as humans, but if our long term intention is to live sustainably in harmony with nature, then I think that does make us an integral part of nature, brains and all.
Anyhow, the point of my reference to the selection practice of native american tribes is that they did alot right, and some of the things we do today are not all that different than what they did. We still have alot to learn from traditional practices, but we are not doing everything wrong today, for all the wrong reasons. We can do better, alot better, but everything we are doing today is not neccessarily wrong.
Graywolf
06-16-2010, 15:53
Well I never said that Native Americans killed bears just for killing, so I guess that makes us even.
What I was trying to say was that in many areas, such as New Brunswick, it was common practice to hunt Black Bear for food by dragging them out of their den during the winter, and killing them before they woke up too much. They could tell by the 'smoke from the wigwam' whether it was a male bear, or a female with cubs, and they would selectively choose male bears rather than females with cubs. The practice of selection is similar today, although the hunting methods are different. The effect is the change in demographics. Killing agressive bears in self-defence would also effect the demographics.
That's the point I was trying to make anyway. Not claiming its all fact, just opinion mostly. I think part of living 'in harmony' with potentially problematic species like bears, wolves, eastern coyotes, cougars is a getting involved in the process of natural selection. It has to be done for the right reasons, i.e. not for sport or commercial gain. It has to be done with consideration to the long term result. It also has to be done with humility, because nature is complex, and we can't possible know all the answers.
I agree that it is somewhat questionable whether or not we can be part of a 'natural' selection process, as humans, but if our long term intention is to live sustainably in harmony with nature, then I think that does make us an integral part of nature, brains and all.
Anyhow, the point of my reference to the selection practice of native american tribes is that they did alot right, and some of the things we do today are not all that different than what they did. We still have alot to learn from traditional practices, but we are not doing everything wrong today, for all the wrong reasons. We can do better, alot better, but everything we are doing today is not neccessarily wrong.
Hey Jax, good point and true.. I missed that one..Your point is well made. Thanks too...
Graywolf
06-16-2010, 15:57
If you are gonna be PC then its between the outdoorsPERSON and bears.
I see no war. I am visiting their home. And if they get angry and wanna try to throw me out, then they have every right.
hey Sierra, I agree with you..Im not completey against for killing a rogue bear, such as a bear that is on a rampage and terroizing the countryside..But to me, when we are out there, we are in there home and we, as hikers and outdoorsmen, should respect that. I am sure any of our forefathers would wholly agree too. Such as Muir, and many others who have gone before. The Wilderness is just what it is, and to try to tame it just as we have building our cities, we risk losing the very part in which we enjoy going out there to be..
Graywolf
I tried to read through this thread but was unable to figure out if Smokey the bear was still causing issues.
I plan on hiking The approach trail to Neel gap over the fourth of July weekend and was wondering if all is clear. My plan was to hike the approach trail to Hawk Mountain day one, then to Woods hole day two and finishing up early Monday.
I'm guessing the trail is open but should I be on the alert for a large, crafty bear around Woods hole? I guess if he got my food at that point it wouldn't matter much anyway.:-?
generoll
10-01-2010, 06:34
I met a guy out at the range about a month ago who was sighting in his 45-70. We got to talking and he said he was getting ready for bear season. I told him about all the problems with bear around Blood Mountain and south of Vogel State Park and he got real interested. I'm guessing that this coming hiker season the bear problem will be pretty well reduced.