View Full Version : Campfires in CT
according to my 2010 Thru-hikers handbook campfires are not allowed in CT
1- why?
2- are wood stoves considered a campfire in CT?
a wood stove is my primary stove for cooking. yes, I can light a fire and get the stove going with wet wood, i do carry a couple of esbit tabs for cooking under the vestibule if necessary.
I don't know why, but my guess would be the risk of forest fires. I think they had a spate of them a while back. Probably still gun shy about it.
I believe that wood stoves are considered a campfire, and therefore not allowed.
Much of the AT in CT is fairly close to road crossings, and pretty heavily traveled by weekenders and sectioners. In addition to the forest fire risk, there is the thought that once all the dead wood around the campsites is picked clean, it wouldnt be long before live trees are being cut up for fires. As far as the wood stove, I dont know if that counts as a fire.
Some time ago, I contributed to a thread which covered some of the same ground this one has and may. I located a link which may provide useful background and contact information and posted it.
If I can find the thread in the next 5 minutes, I'll post it. Otherwise, it may be some time before I locate it and post it if I post it at all. Anyone else who might want to try to find it, feel free to have at it and post the link.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50486 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50486)
I'd contact Connecticut's agency listed in the last post to seek an answer to question #2.
canoehead
05-12-2010, 16:32
I'm pretty sure it's CT. State law, says no fires. So it's the same on the trail while in CT. Also in the Laural campsite ( old Race brook falls site) just north of Sages Ravine is in MA but still no fires allowed.
No campfires in NJ or CT on the AT. The handbook says due to too much traffic, yet it is okay in NY. :rolleyes: The trail maintainers in NJ and CT don't want to clean out the fire pits on occasion. Have not seen any forest damage in NY where fires are okay.
Sages and Laural Ridge north of Sages - no fires. Race Brook campsite, north of Laural Ridge and 0.2 off the AT on a blue blaze trail, fires are okay.
max patch
05-12-2010, 17:25
A contained fire in a backpacking stove is quite different than a campfire.
Yes, but what does the law indicate? Are open-topped wood-burning or liquid-fueled stoves and self-contained and pressurized gas or liquid-fueled stoves the same per the law?
I can post what applies on Pennsylvania State Forests, but that's another matter. Pennsylvania Code employs specific language which I believe may take in all of the above, but I'm uncertain as to whether a wood-burning stove which could throw cinders just as campfire could is meant to be permitted.
backpacking stoves in ct are fine... i am sure no one would give you a hard time with a wood burning one... except to give you are hard time for being silly enough to carry one. :)
backpacking stoves in ct are fine... i am sure no one would give you a hard time with a wood burning one... except to give you are hard time for being silly enough to carry one. :)
well some of us are...well, you know...special...:clap
well some of us are...well, you know...special...:clap
... speaking for which when is your short bus ride to the trail?
johnnyblisters
05-12-2010, 18:17
I had to answer this question all the time while ridgerunning in CT and MA.
Fires are a potential hazard to this relatively narrow corridor and popular section of the AT. Much of the land that we are allowed to walk upon is private. Not only is it CT state law, but private landowners have asked kindly that we honor that law and preserve their land for future generations.
As far as Leave No Trace ethics go, fires aren't a sustainable practice in a deciduous forest. Fires scar the soil horizons up to 10 feet down, virtually eliminating all valuable living organisms that are needed for healthy forest succession in that area. Also as Makoboy previously stated, collecting wood for fires decreases detritus on the forest floor that is necessary for soil development.
No fires in CT and north up to Hemlocks shelter (MA).
I'll get off my soapbox.
I had to answer this question all the time while ridgerunning in CT and MA.
Fires are a potential hazard to this relatively narrow corridor and popular section of the AT. Much of the land that we are allowed to walk upon is private. Not only is it CT state law, but private landowners have asked kindly that we honor that law and preserve their land for future generations.
As far as Leave No Trace ethics go, fires aren't a sustainable practice in a deciduous forest. Fires scar the soil horizons up to 10 feet down, virtually eliminating all valuable living organisms that are needed for healthy forest succession in that area. Also as Makoboy previously stated, collecting wood for fires decreases detritus on the forest floor that is necessary for soil development.
No fires in CT and north up to Hemlocks shelter (MA).
I'll get off my soapbox.
okay, you answered the why, but what about a wood stove question in post #1
"are wood stoves considered a campfire in CT?
a wood stove is my primary stove for cooking. yes, I can light a fire and get the stove going with wet wood, i do carry a couple of esbit tabs for cooking under the vestibule if necessary."
Refer to my 1st post and send an email if you want to know.:-?
johnnyblisters
05-12-2010, 18:34
okay, you answered the why, but what about a wood stove question in post #1
"are wood stoves considered a campfire in CT?
a wood stove is my primary stove for cooking. yes, I can light a fire and get the stove going with wet wood, i do carry a couple of esbit tabs for cooking under the vestibule if necessary."
I don't consider wood stoves a campfire as long as they're responsibly used and cleaned up after. Maybe consider using it on top of a rock to reduce your impact even more.
I had to answer this question all the time while ridgerunning in CT and MA.
Fires are a potential hazard to this relatively narrow corridor and popular section of the AT. Much of the land that we are allowed to walk upon is private. Not only is it CT state law, but private landowners have asked kindly that we honor that law and preserve their land for future generations.
As far as Leave No Trace ethics go, fires aren't a sustainable practice in a deciduous forest. Fires scar the soil horizons up to 10 feet down, virtually eliminating all valuable living organisms that are needed for healthy forest succession in that area. Also as Makoboy previously stated, collecting wood for fires decreases detritus on the forest floor that is necessary for soil development.
No fires in CT and north up to Hemlocks shelter (MA).
I'll get off my soapbox.
bs. all the state 'car' campgrounds allow ground fires and they get a lot more traffic. no harm there.
bs. the AT passes through many states with a narrow corridor that DO allow ground fires and i have not seen Armageddon of the forest fall upon them. And NY where fires are ok, is tightly wedged between NJ and CT (fires not ok), and there are no issues in NY.
bs. I just had to say it one more time, 'cuz i like my fires :)
Some time ago, I contributed to a thread which covered some of the same ground this one has and may. I located a link which may provide useful background and contact information and posted it.
If I can find the thread in the next 5 minutes, I'll post it. Otherwise, it may be some time before I locate it and post it if I post it at all. Anyone else who might want to try to find it, feel free to have at it and post the link.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50486 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50486)
I'd contact Connecticut's agency listed in the last post to seek an answer to question #2.
yeah, the maintainer said they don't want to clean fire pits. it's easier to just say no than to educate people on carrying out their trash and how to build a small fire. ny, vt, nh and i assume many other states seem to do just fine with permitting campfires.
Tin Man, do you really think it's in my best interest to put on my thinking cap and forego income in order to contribute to this thread?
Connecticut's land management agencies can do as Connecticut wishes and what they do has nothing to do with New York, which apparently does have an issue, or any other A.T. States. Car campgrounds can be more readily accessed by fire fighters with fire fighting apparatus and fires there are much more likely to be brought quickly under control.
I would also like to point out to you Pennsylvania hasn't always done fine with its generally liberal regulations varying from one management unit to another which may have contributed to fires being kindled and getting away from A.T. hikers and damages being assessed to those found responsible.
You know who has the most liberal regulations of all in Pennsylvania with the least enforcement? I'll tell you, NPS. Fortunately, most of what they control is at road crossings or readily accessible locations. Consequently, it is in the best interest of everyone when hikers inform themselves and police their own behavior.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have better fish to fry.
I don't consider wood stoves a campfire as long as they're responsibly used and cleaned up after. Maybe consider using it on top of a rock to reduce your impact even more.
I use a Bushbuddy Ultra, you can pick it up at the base while burning, it's warm but not to the point it will scar the ground. All ash is contained inside, broadcast when completely cool. No worries about impact or blackening of the rock.
http://www.bushbuddy.ca/
Refer to my 1st post and send an email if you want to know.:-?
who are you talking to???
the link in the other thread that you contributed to says this...and more about land owners burning...
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a...epNav_GID=1631
"The DEP's Forest Fire Control Office urges all who enjoy the use of Connecticut's parks, forests and open spaces, to use fires with caution and practice forest fire prevention tips especially during forest fire season. People need to obey local laws regarding open fires, carefully dispose of hot charcoal, and completely extinguish smoking materials."
I'm not talking to anyone. My posts are intended for anyone who wants to read them and don't necessarily follow from a particular post, but often follow from the previous post unless I quote an earlier post.
Your link doesn't seem to be valid for some reason. I will repost it for everyone to read.
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2222&q=320740&depNav_GID=1631 (http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2222&q=320740&depNav_GID=1631)
Obviously, what appears on the page isn't intended specifically for an A.T. audience, but if you read the entire page carefully and it makes more sense in the context of the thread to which it was posted originally, it does refer to local laws regarding open fires such as mentioned in ATC/ALDHA's Companion and to which others posting have referred.
People need to obey local laws regarding open fires, carefully dispose of hot charcoal, and completely extinguish smoking materials.
If Connecticut A.T. visitors want to know whether wood stoves are permitted, contact the land management agencies. NPS manages at least some land, but Connecticut laws may apply and NPS and the A.T. maintaining club may think it best to not seek an exception. Ask someone who knows.
Those in need of clarification might also try
[email protected] or better yet call ATC. Stoves of the kind described may be a gray area and asking may help others who choose similiar heat sources for cooking.
who are you talking to???
the link in the other thread that you contributed to says this...and more about land owners burning...
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a...epNav_GID=1631
"The DEP's Forest Fire Control Office urges all who enjoy the use of Connecticut's parks, forests and open spaces, to use fires with caution and practice forest fire prevention tips especially during forest fire season. People need to obey local laws regarding open fires, carefully dispose of hot charcoal, and completely extinguish smoking materials."
emerald likes getting his underwear in a knot for no good reason or cause. just ignore him... or enjoy it. :)
emerald... the whole no campfire argument is bs. just another case of letting the 0.1% bad apples spoil the experience for the 99.9% who do "use fires with caution and practice forest fire prevention"
Everyone has a reason (rationalization) for not obeying laws. It's built in to the average human. Submitting to laws we don't like takes our power (and freedom of choice) away from us and makes us feel controlled and weak.
Get over it and on with life.
Re: the fire thing - you can live without one.
The wood stove? Probably not a problem until some over-zealous authority figure (likely low level and in need of something to do) will probably tell you that it's an open fire and to put it out.
The only real problems I can see with it are:
1) Windblown embers starting fires elsewhere, and
2) Disposing of ashes (they MUST be completely extinguished).
And - ah - those who don't like smoke in their eyes.
I guess you could consider Esbit tabs an open flame, though it's not wood - I could be in jeapordy there ;).
DISCLAIMER:
The above message is to no one in particular and everyone else in general :D.
DISCLAIMER:
The above message is to no one in particular and everyone else in general :D.
That's cool, but no one said anything about breaking any rules, just disagreeing with some.
Pedaling Fool
05-13-2010, 08:26
The whole fire ban thing is just stupid and a complete misunderstanding of what is sustainable or unsustainable.
The idea that burning dead wood will remove "needed" materials that otherwise would have been composted back into the environment is just silly. There's more than enough dead stuff to return to the soil, if there were not than forest fires would not be such a threat.
Open your eyes people, look around as you walk, there are dead trees all around -- and if you really pay attention you will notice that many of them are still standing.
Add to that that most do not like to build fires anyway, because they're lazy. I never had a problem finding wood in Georgia (think about all those hikers at the beginning of the season -- EVERY ***'N YEAR!!!).
:rolleyes:
warraghiyagey
05-13-2010, 08:39
DISCLAIMER:
The above message is to no one in particular and everyone else in general :D.
Now that's funny. . . :p
Old Grouse
05-13-2010, 10:53
What's the matter with you guys? We're talking about - what, 4 days without a fire, maybe 5 tops? Are you telling me you just can't live without it? Quit yer whining!
What's the matter with you guys? We're talking about - what, 4 days without a fire, maybe 5 tops? Are you telling me you just can't live without it? Quit yer whining!
for weekend/section hikers, that can be a whole trip. if i can't chill (or is that heat :-?) by a fire, it takes away from the camping experience. just sayin'
http://www.themebuilders.com/effects/animsmall3.GIF
You could put this on your cell phone....
I could, but my fires look my like this...
http://artaban7.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/mushroom-cloud.jpg?w=300&h=239
Pedaling Fool
05-13-2010, 13:17
What's the matter with you guys? We're talking about - what, 4 days without a fire, maybe 5 tops? Are you telling me you just can't live without it? Quit yer whining!
No whinning, just can't believe how idiotic some are:D:sun
Pedaling Fool
05-13-2010, 13:37
http://www.themebuilders.com/effects/animsmall3.GIF
You could put this on your cell phone....
Not the biggest, but I like this better, especially with a little nip after a hard day's hiking
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/9/3/6/3-27-061919.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14241&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6936)