View Full Version : Seen the new AT Journeys?
The Photo says so much.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8688&stc=1&d=1274028931
LIhikers
05-16-2010, 13:57
Yep, we got ours just the other day.
Haven't read one for a while. Are they getting less boring? I just read an old one yesterday and it was pretty... boring.
I haven't been an ATC member for years, but I'm thinking of joining back up.
hey joker im glad to see u got the cover shot....such a perfect picture u can almost feel ur happiness thru the computer..
safn1949
05-16-2010, 17:39
Hmmm,boring is a good word.Also a couple of others I won't say here after some of the politics they put in......phooey.
Railroad King
05-16-2010, 18:24
Well at least this one is more exiting than the usual issues. It has the 2,000 miler report and some somewhat interesting articles. I like the personal stories, reading about trail towns, and pictures but pretty much everything else is a yawn fest. Their target demographic seems to be the older crowd which is understandable since they give the most money but it does bore us younger folks. Not really sure how it could be better. Maybe some crazy more adventurous than usual hiking stories like "I was down to eating peanut butter out of the jar for two days before I hit town" or something heh. It is too political sometimes and too much talk about going green. While not a bad idea I'm tired of hearing about it.
Pedaling Fool
05-16-2010, 18:32
Isn't that bottled "stuff" illegal. Cute Girls can get away with everything:D
Skidsteer
05-16-2010, 19:56
Isn't that bottled "stuff" illegal. Cute Girls can get away with everything:D
No,no,no. That's what everyone is carrying since the BPA scare.
wcgornto
05-16-2010, 20:07
Hmmm,boring is a good word.Also a couple of others I won't say here after some of the politics they put in......phooey.
I feel the same way about National Geographic magazine. Wherever you stand on the questions of evolution and man caused global warming, I will not purchase a publication that is a walking billboard for (or against) either cause, let alone both.
safn1949
05-16-2010, 20:08
I feel the same way about National Geographic magazine. Wherever you stand on the questions of evolution and man caused global warming, I will not purchase a publication that is a walking billboard for (or against) either cause, let alone both.
Exactly,thank you.:D
You guys have gotten it wrong, again. The magazine is free. Your dues mostly pay for the upkeep and management of a 2176 mile long footpath.
But hikers are known up and down the trail as folks who love services, but hate paying for them. Hikers also tend to be ignorant of the most basic science as some of these posts remind us.
Anyway, the last time I checked the magazine doesn't pay for the articles its prints. At least it never paid me for my occasional contributions. So if you have a better idea for an article, write it.
If you truly believe that evolution didn't happen in some manner or other, perhaps an interesting article might be to speculate why the creator scattered about all these seemingly ancient bones, and why our beloved Appalachians have the look of mountains that have eroded for millions of years, while other mountain ranges show minimal weathering.
Do you supose there is limited space in heaven and the creator wanted to trick some of us into believing our eyes, not ancient legends, so the place doesn't get crowded?
Whatever. Boring or not, ATC needs our dollars if the trail is to be protected. Unless you are willing to petition for more government dollars to support a trail that 40 years ago we promised to maintain.
Weary
safn1949
05-17-2010, 19:23
A) I am a paying member
B) Your opinion. And a very insulting one at that,it must be hard being so perfect and right all the time.And no,I really don't care if you like it or not,I am sick to death of the I'm better/smarter then you attitude expressed by some of the more accomplished hikers here.
We all hike for a reason,known only to us. Some of us have a firm belief in God,some don't. Believe what you will but think about what you say first.
~ Believe what you will but think about what you say first.
That's really good advice; for everyone! ;)
Isn't that bottled "stuff" illegal. Cute Girls can get away with everything:D
Not that I know of. What law do you think makes it illegal? Assuming the stuff in the bottle was made by a licensed brewer that paid the tax, it is legal under both Maine law and Baxter State Park regulations -- or at least as they have been enforced over these many decades I've been observing.
Weary
A) I am a paying member
B) Your opinion. And a very insulting one at that,it must be hard being so perfect and right all the time.And no,I really don't care if you like it or not,I am sick to death of the I'm better/smarter then you attitude expressed by some of the more accomplished hikers here.
We all hike for a reason,known only to us. Some of us have a firm belief in God,some don't. Believe what you will but think about what you say first.
Well, I'm certainly not one that pretends to know the details of the word of God. I do know that most established religions share the belief of most scientists that evolution happened, and is happening.
As do even those skeptics among us, like me, who have delved into the various bibles, and the latest science.
I know that in this country, science teaching and religious teaching both get short shift in our public schools, unlike the rest of the developed world. As a result there is a lot of ignorance about both in this country.
But in this instance, I have yet so see a real factual dispute between the two that makes any sense.
Weary
FritztheCat
05-17-2010, 21:23
Excellent cover shot. I got mine the other day and have enjoyed the articles in this issue. Some of them are boring to me, but probably are interesting to others. Not all tastes are the same, thank goodness! Life would be really boring if we all agreed on everything.
Kudos to editor Wendy Probst and her staff for the May/June issue of AT Journeys. Lots of good news in this issue, including:
1. A belated article on ATC Honorary Life Member Award Winner Larry Luxemberg, but most timely for the grand opening of the AT Museum coming up on June 5
2. Announcement that Hawk Metheny is new ATC Regional Director. Another thru-hiker and long time ALDHA member hired by ATC.
3. Article on the Applachian Trail Community program. It's gotta help ALDHA's Endangered Services Campaign.
Cookerhiker
05-18-2010, 11:57
Sorry for the redundancy but OTOH, the same old (redundant) diatribes about the ATC and Journeys are brought up again albeit by different posters. So here's what I said on the thread in January on this subject:
....Now as to the old Appalachian Trailway News vs. the new AT Journeys -Journeys brings some very nice features, namely the Trail Towns series, stunning photographs, monthly articles on wildlife (flora and/or fauna) along the Trail, and probably my favorite: a spot on a volunteer each month. The print quality is measurably better. Like ATN, the latest news on trail developments is helpful to those who care about the Trail's preservation and its very existence.
What I miss about the old ATN - the best way to summarize is that it was more of a what I'd call a "people's magazine" meaning it contained more input from the Trail Community. To be sure, Journeys includes some such input but it's more of a magazine about the Trail community rather than by
So what does it take to make Journeys more of a "people's magazine" without diminishing its strengths? Very simple:
Allow much more - at least double, preferably triple - space for "Letters to the Editor." Currently it's too-neatly packaged onto one page or less.
Bring back "Reflections." It was replaced by "Trail Stories" and "As I see it" which are OK in themselves but despite being usually well-written, they're very confining - a single 700-word or 1 page account by only one author each. And in more than one month, "Trail Stories" is omitted entirely. "Reflections" seemed more authentic - usually 1-7 articles, some one page, some one paragraph, but all "reflecting" trail experiences of hikers/users. I get the sense that ATC Management considers "Reflections" less professional-appearing than their successors but I miss the down-to-earth style of "Reflections." And most importantly, "Reflections" allowed for more people to write their experiences. By only publishing one account per month ala "Trail Stories," the ATC actually discourages reader input since the statistical odds against one's article being published don't make the time writing worthwhile.
This should be a no-brainer and perhaps already is ATC policy but I'll say it: only photos by ATC members should be published. Again, this is in the spirit of making Journeys a "people's magazine. Surely there's enough photography talent out there.
Of course keep up the profile on individual volunteers and also profile individual hikers each month as well. This is often done in the course of articles anyway.
Borrowing an idea from Rails-to-Trails magazine, feature a randomly-drawn ATC member each month. In no more than 1 page, the member can share a little background about themselves and why they support the ATC; what the organization and the AT mean to them.
FWIT, the ATC was interested in my comments and requested I send them to the editorial and management staff which I did of course.
And for those who think the ATC touches on "political" matters too much, well they (we) are in the business of trail corridor protection and yes,that sometimes means getting "political." Had the ATC confined itself to strictly hiking only and not gotten "political" 40-50 years ago, most of Trail today would be road walks. Maybe some of you are OK with that but I suspect most of us aren't.
I think the Letters to the Editor in the old ATN served much the same purpose then as this forum does now.
Do you supose there is limited space in heaven and the creator wanted to trick some of us into believing our eyes, not ancient legends, so the place doesn't get crowded?
LOL
I love the ATC. I just think their magazine is boring.
Cookerhiker
05-18-2010, 12:37
.....I love the ATC. I just think their magazine is boring.
OK- that's your opinion and perspective. Could you please share your constructive solutions to make it less boring?
And if you don't mind, why is Journeys more "boring" than the old Appalachian Trailway News?
Cookerhiker,
That was a really well done analysis of Journeys v. ATN. I am glad you shared it with us and ATC.
JustaTouron
05-18-2010, 13:09
Not that I know of. What law do you think makes it illegal? Assuming the stuff in the bottle was made by a licensed brewer that paid the tax, it is legal under both Maine law and Baxter State Park regulations -- or at least as they have been enforced over these many decades I've been observing.
Weary
Not allowed to drink in public in Baxter State park...
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/miscPages/rules.html
see #27.
Sorry for the redundancy but OTOH, the same old (redundant) diatribes about the ATC and Journeys are brought up again albeit by different posters. So here's what I said on the thread in January on this subject:
....Now as to the old Appalachian Trailway News vs. the new AT Journeys -Journeys brings some very nice features, namely the Trail Towns series, stunning photographs, monthly articles on wildlife (flora and/or fauna) along the Trail, and probably my favorite: a spot on a volunteer each month. The print quality is measurably better. Like ATN, the latest news on trail developments is helpful to those who care about the Trail's preservation and its very existence.
What I miss about the old ATN - the best way to summarize is that it was more of a what I'd call a "people's magazine" meaning it contained more input from the Trail Community. To be sure, Journeys includes some such input but it's more of a magazine about the Trail community rather than by
So what does it take to make Journeys more of a "people's magazine" without diminishing its strengths? Very simple:
Allow much more - at least double, preferably triple - space for "Letters to the Editor." Currently it's too-neatly packaged onto one page or less.
Bring back "Reflections." It was replaced by "Trail Stories" and "As I see it" which are OK in themselves but despite being usually well-written, they're very confining - a single 700-word or 1 page account by only one author each. And in more than one month, "Trail Stories" is omitted entirely. "Reflections" seemed more authentic - usually 1-7 articles, some one page, some one paragraph, but all "reflecting" trail experiences of hikers/users. I get the sense that ATC Management considers "Reflections" less professional-appearing than their successors but I miss the down-to-earth style of "Reflections." And most importantly, "Reflections" allowed for more people to write their experiences. By only publishing one account per month ala "Trail Stories," the ATC actually discourages reader input since the statistical odds against one's article being published don't make the time writing worthwhile.
This should be a no-brainer and perhaps already is ATC policy but I'll say it: only photos by ATC members should be published. Again, this is in the spirit of making Journeys a "people's magazine. Surely there's enough photography talent out there.
Of course keep up the profile on individual volunteers and also profile individual hikers each month as well. This is often done in the course of articles anyway.
Borrowing an idea from Rails-to-Trails magazine, feature a randomly-drawn ATC member each month. In no more than 1 page, the member can share a little background about themselves and why they support the ATC; what the organization and the AT mean to them.
FWIT, the ATC was interested in my comments and requested I send them to the editorial and management staff which I did of course.
And for those who think the ATC touches on "political" matters too much, well they (we) are in the business of trail corridor protection and yes,that sometimes means getting "political." Had the ATC confined itself to strictly hiking only and not gotten "political" 40-50 years ago, most of Trail today would be road walks. Maybe some of you are OK with that but I suspect most of us aren't.
Thanks for reposting. It needs to be said often. I've only had a chance to quickly scan the current issue. But I did notice this issue asks for members to submit their photos.
Weary
Graywolf
05-18-2010, 13:29
I must say that as politics go, the Appalachian Trail wouldn't be in existance without it.. We have to do our part continue the traditions of the ATC and to keep the Trail alive.. That means politics must be involved..
As for the cover shot, I too was wondering that.. It kinda gives a bad impressions and the fact that no alcohol is allowed in the park, much less, on the trails, this is a bad representation of the ATC and I think they could have found a better cover photo for the cover..
As fro evolution, the very first chapter and first couple verses actually talks about when the continents were once one, " He divided the fermament with the waters and put the dry land in one place, and the water is its place..." That pretty sums it up. But then, where did the discussion of evolution come from out of a cover shot of a jumping girl holding a champaign bottle on Katahdin?? :-?
Graywolf
I must say that as politics go, the Appalachian Trail wouldn't be in existance without it.. We have to do our part continue the traditions of the ATC and to keep the Trail alive.. That means politics must be involved..
As for the cover shot, I too was wondering that.. It kinda gives a bad impressions and the fact that no alcohol is allowed in the park, much less, on the trails, this is a bad representation of the ATC and I think they could have found a better cover photo for the cover..
As for evolution, the very first chapter and first couple verses actually talks about when the continents were once one, " He divided the fermament with the waters and put the dry land in one place, and the water is its place..." That pretty sums it up. But then, where did the discussion of evolution come from out of a cover shot of a jumping girl holding a champagne bottle on Katahdin?? :-?
Graywolf
Well, I only see a champagne bottle once or twice a year, so I don't know what was in the bottle. I can't read the label. As for the connection with evolution, you'll have to ask wcgornto. He brought it up.
But it is not true that no alcohol is allowed in the park. The park treats your campsite as your temporary residence. And allows alcoholic beverages to be consumed.
The summit of Katahdin is a bit more of a problem. But I've been on the summit with rangers present during thru hikers celebratory moments on several occasions. No ranger ever said anything against the practice so I suspect there is a tacit understanding that a celebratory warm bottle of champagne or a warm beer that has been jiggled massively on a five mile scramble over rocks enroute to the summit is considered an extension of "your camp is your home" philosophy.
If a thru hiker reports he has been arrested, or had their beverage confiscated on the summit, I may change my mind. Regardless I'll continue to think the cover picture is a great photograph.
I like photos that reflect the truth of a situation. I'll leave the quibbling to those who think it is not a faithful illustration of what the hiker was doing and thinking when the shutter was clicked.
Maine has a law that forbids having an open bottle in public. But I live next to a shipyard that has launched scores of giant warships over the decades. Each has been sent into the waters of the Kennebec River with the crash of a bottle of champagne over it's bow. Not one of the distinguished female politicians, widows of admirables, or wives of presidents doing that unlawful deed have ever been arrested.
I say let he who has never sinned call the cops, or the rangers.
Weary
Not allowed to drink in public in Baxter State park...
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/miscPages/rules.html
see #27.
It may be..but it would take a very mean spirited ranger to confiscate the bottle of champagne and ticket a person who completed a 2000+ mile pilgrimage.
The letter of the law may be broken..I suspect the spirit of the law (to prevent many issues when excessive drinking happens) has not been broken.
Otherwise, many people who reach Katahdin are scofflaws..myself included. :)
I agree with Weary..it is a great photo. Truly captures the joy of reaching this wonderful personal milestone. I have done other long trails, but reaching the summit of Katahdin will always be the most memorable, exciting and happiest of the trail termini for me.
OK- that's your opinion and perspective. Could you please share your constructive solutions to make it less boring?
And if you don't mind, why is Journeys more "boring" than the old Appalachian Trailway News?
Of course its my opinion, thats why I said "I think their magazine is boring . Are you one of the writers?
Not allowed to drink in public in Baxter State park...
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/miscPages/rules.html
see #27.
If we must rely on A.T. visitors to inform themselves about laws, regulations and rules and then respect them, what message exactly is ATC conveying when it publishes such a photograph on ATJ's cover?
That issue aside, I'm not as enthusiastic about the photo editing decision as others who have posted. A.T. through hiking isn't a spectator sport, but, if it were, Joe Paterno's ideas about celebrating and sportsmanship are more in line with my own. I don't want to see Katahdin's alpine tundra become the A.T.'s end zone.
Everyone who views it will understand the outpouring of emotion captured at that instant, but not everyone has that kind of reaction on Baxter Peak and some who have been there have a different point of view.
JustaTouron
05-18-2010, 15:56
It may be..but it would take a very mean spirited ranger to confiscate the bottle of champagne and ticket a person who completed a 2000+ mile pilgrimage.
The letter of the law may be broken..I suspect the spirit of the law (to prevent many issues when excessive drinking happens) has not been broken.
Otherwise, many people who reach Katahdin are scofflaws..myself included. :)
I agree with Weary..it is a great photo. Truly captures the joy of reaching this wonderful personal milestone. I have done other long trails, but reaching the summit of Katahdin will always be the most memorable, exciting and happiest of the trail termini for me.
I agree it would be mean of a ranger to arrest the young lady in the photo. And I am sure plenty of people have broken said law.
We have a similar law in my city which is routinely broken and very rarely enforced. The few times I have seen it enforced was either as a justification to card folks who looked under-21, and those who were under-21 simply had to dump out the beverage; or when someone was obviously way past his/her limit. But the fact that it is rarely enforced doesn't change that it is still the law. Just like you won't get a ticket for going 67 MPH in a 65MPH zone doesn't change the speed limit to 67. A few people have questioned if it sound policy for the ATC to glamorize breaking this rule. I am not overall concerned about this I was just pointing that in fact it is a violation of the rules of Baxter when someone said it wasn't.
There is a second reason why this is not a good photo. And this reason bothers me. She is at the TOP of Katadian and while she may have reached the end of the AT, she is far from the end of her hiking day. That mountain is very steep in many parts. While I don't know her particular level of alcohol tolerance, it is quite possible for a girl her size a full bottle of champagne could give her quite a buzz. I don't think the ATC should be PROMOTING the idea of descending the mountain inebriated. And this photo is most certainly promoting the idea of hiking down katadian with impaired ability.
Man's law doesn't apply in the hills of Appalachia!!!:D
Do people actually drink the whole bottle of champagne?
I'd rather celebrate with a six-pack of good 'ol Pabst Blue Ribbon.:banana
I kept thinking that girl looked familiar. Thought maybe she was someone who had appeared here on WB. Then the penny dropped: She looks like a girl who works at my local grocery store, in the deli counter usually. Don't think she has been hiking the AT recently, though. Anybody know her, the cover girl?
Cookerhiker
05-18-2010, 16:20
OK- that's your opinion and perspective. Could you please share your constructive solutions to make it less boring?
And if you don't mind, why is Journeys more "boring" than the old Appalachian Trailway News?
Of course its my opinion, thats why I said "I think their magazine is boring . Are you one of the writers?
OK-I'll answer your question first: No, I'm not one of the writers - just a member.
Now will you answer mine? What can be done to make Journeys less "boring?"
Cookerhiker
05-18-2010, 16:37
Re the alcohol celebration, I indulged myself but sure didn't have the energy to jump in the air like the cover photo.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=8767&catid=member&imageuser=5065
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=8767&catid=member&imageuser=5065
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=8767&catid=member&imageuser=5065
OK-I'll answer your question first: No, I'm not one of the writers - just a member.
Now will you answer mine? What can be done to make Journeys less "boring?"
I'm not sure what would make it more interesting. I do like reading the letters people send in. There should be more articles on thru-hikers, in fact, I think it should be mostly on thru hikers and trail maintainers. The last issue i read (September '05 with the girl and the horse on the cover) had a review of the new line of tents that can be inflated, I thought that was interesting. More thru-hiking, more gear reviews, and more letters.
Cookerhiker
05-18-2010, 17:11
I'm not sure what would make it more interesting. I do like reading the letters people send in. There should be more articles on thru-hikers, in fact, I think it should be mostly on thru hikers and trail maintainers. The last issue i read (September '05 with the girl and the horse on the cover) had a review of the new line of tents that can be inflated, I thought that was interesting. More thru-hiking, more gear reviews, and more letters.
The last thing I'll say and then I'll shut up: thruhikers are a very small minority of AT users. Throw in completed section hiker 2,000 milers (like me), and it's still a small minority. The ATC has some stats which must surely be estimates indicating that the overwhelming majority of those who venture on the AT are day trippers and short-term hikers.
ATC has some stats which must surely be estimates indicating that the overwhelming majority of those who venture on the AT are day trippers and short-term hikers.
Maybe ATC should direct their recruiting efforts toward people who live near the A.T. and finding new maintainers rather than promoting through hiking?
The last thing I'll say and then I'll shut up: thruhikers are a very small minority of AT users. Throw in completed section hiker 2,000 milers (like me), and it's still a small minority. The ATC has some stats which must surely be estimates indicating that the overwhelming majority of those who venture on the AT are day trippers and short-term hikers.
True. I meant to say section hikers too.
How long did it take you to section hike?
And this photo is most certainly promoting the idea of hiking down katadian with impaired ability.
I am going to assume that being a celebration she shared the vino.
Besides, a glass of wine or even two (assuming the person if up there for a little while...celebration and all that) is hardly dangerous. Otherwise, those crazy German, French and Italians who maintain the huts in the Alps must be dangerous. :p
Wine, cheese, fruit and some delicious bread. It's a wonderful way to hike in the mountains. See above about the Europeans. :)
Try it sometime.
When I finished the AT, we had champagne, cheese, cold cuts, fresh bread, fruit (including a watermelon)..or as Squanto put it that day "Your buddies carried in an Italian deli!" Damn straight...
(Would this be a bad place to show me drinking cheap ass whiskey at 14k+ ft? My friend completed all the 14ers..think it was worth a drink?)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs191.snc1/6408_125894940020_563440020_3392901_5231483_n.jpg
Really, though, I think the people who are wagging their fingers are just looking to have an Internet appendage waving contest. :D
Dialeight44
05-18-2010, 19:17
The cover girl is Sara Haxby, a 2009 thru-hiker from MA. She started with me near the end of March and I believe she finished on 09-09-09. You can read her blog at:
http://littlehaxby.blogspot.com/
She is a delicious writer and an even better person. I can think of no one else I would rather see on the cover.
Gorgonzola
GA>ME 2009
Skidsteer
05-18-2010, 19:30
Really, though, I think the people who are wagging their fingers are just looking to have an Internet appendage waving contest. :D
Now there's a good idea for a new forum.
JustaTouron
05-18-2010, 20:03
(Would this be a bad place to show me drinking cheap ass whiskey at 14k+ ft? My friend completed all the 14ers..think it was worth a drink?)
I don't care what you personally do. I don't care that she had a drink.
I just don't think its a good idea to put a picture of it on the front cover of the magazine, as it is both illegal and potentially dangerous.
And while the Europeans do drink wine more frequently than us Americans they don't have the nearly the problems of overindulgence and binge drinking amoung the youth that we have so the comparison is not particularly helpful.
Skidsteer
05-18-2010, 20:19
And while the Europeans do drink wine more frequently than us Americans they don't have the nearly the problems of overindulgence and binge drinking amoung the youth that we have so the comparison is not particularly helpful.
Undoubtedly because they don't publish photos of people drinking in any of their magazines.
Undoubtedly because they don't publish photos of people drinking in any of their magazines.
No doubt. Will someone PLEASE think of the children!!!!
:eek:
Climbing practice today. We drank beer after the climb and before the short hike down.
Somehow we did not die....Maybe we are European????
Joshua "Ewok" Gourley should win a prize for that photo.
Nice job. Thanks for sharing.
And thanks to the editors at the ATC for not being so politically correct as to deny us the smiles one simple photo bring.
Now if they could only put a SOBO on the cover!
Hikes in Rain
05-19-2010, 08:14
She's wasting some of the wine. :eek:
sherrill
05-19-2010, 08:21
If only she were holding a gun and an unleashed dog was in the photo. Then we'd have a good discussion, no?
Not allowed to drink in public in Baxter State park...
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/miscPages/rules.html
see #27.
I am SURE that it was just "Sparkling Grape Juice" or "root beer" in that bottle. :D
The park regulations referenced above state, in part:
"Maine law prohibits drinking of alcoholic beverages in public places."
Personally, I don't see anyone breaking that particular regulation on the cover shot. :-?
Rule # 30 states, in part:
"....In addition, persons violating these rules may be required immediately to leave the Park...".
If their basic penalty (for things like an alcohol violation) is to kick you out of the Park---isn't that what most people who have just completed a thru hike plan to do anyway (no later than the next day)? Thus, it would be similar to "punishing" an habitually truant school student with expulsion from school. Where's the real punishment? :D
It sure would be a LONG hard walk for a Ranger to escort you out of the Park from the summit of Katahdin (and a pretty meaningless walk too--especially if you were planning on leaving anyway). If I was a Ranger, I can guarantee you that I would would probably tend to "look the other way" over what probably amounts to (at most) 1-2 glasses of alcohol being responsibly consumed at such victory celebrations! Even if I was the meanest Ranger in the entire country--it still wouldn't be worth my time or the paperwork.
There is a second reason why this is not a good photo. And this reason bothers me. She is at the TOP of Katadian and while she may have reached the end of the AT, she is far from the end of her hiking day. That mountain is very steep in many parts. While I don't know her particular level of alcohol tolerance, it is quite possible for a girl her size a full bottle of champagne could give her quite a buzz. I don't think the ATC should be PROMOTING the idea of descending the mountain inebriated. And this photo is most certainly promoting the idea of hiking down katadian with impaired ability.
I both agree--and disagree with this poster. Personally, I think it is a great photo and I have no problem with it being the cover shot.
TIME FOR FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not personally consumed any alcohol for the past 29 years. I am also a Certified Alcohol and other Drug Counselor (CADC). I am a BIG advocate of ALL rules being enforced. (I am like Officer Barney Fife from the "Andy Griffith Show"!)
Yet, even with all of those factors taken into consideration, I still have absolutely no problem with people having a little victory celebration on top of Katahdin----including celebrations that involve a little alcohol consumption. It is good to celebrate such events and many people like to have alcohol as part of their celebrations. I say--go for it! Enjoy!
HOWEVER, out of curiosity, I DID run various scenarios through my Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) calculators after reading JustaTouron's post. (I calculated scenarios using hypothetical people with different weights, genders, and different amounts and types of alcohol consumed etc.). The results were somewhat interesting.
From a purely safety perspective:
IT IS PROBABLY BEST TO LIMIT THE VICTORY CELEBRATION TO NO MORE THAN ONE BEER, ONE SHOT OF (80 proof) ALCOHOL, OR ONE GLASS OF WINE/CHAMPAGNE. (Until you get off of the trail).
For most hikers, ONE DRINK will pose little, or no, impairment issues.
However, the SECOND DRINK (consumed in just 30-60 minutes time) would indeed put many hikers at a BAC of .04 to .08. (This is ESPECIALLY true for females--as women tend to have lower levels of the enzymes needed to break down alcohol and they often tend to be smaller in size than the typical male).
Scientific testing indicates that most people start to experience changes in their coordination and judgment BEGINNING with a BAC of .02. The level for LEGAL impairment while driving is .05 in most of Europe and .08 in virtually all of the U.S. (The legal BAC limit is .04 for holders of a U.S. Commercial Drivers License).
I am not trying to put a damper on anyone's victory party. I just want people to get off of the mountain safely and without incident.
I am also not looking for a debate--nor am I trying to be be critical of anyone's decisions. I am merely providing information in a subject area where I have some professional certification and expertise. In the end, it is just data, and everyone should take the data for what it is worth, make their own decisions, and HIKE THEIR OWN HIKE.
sherrill
05-19-2010, 12:09
Thank god she didn't light up a cigar.
....There is a second reason why this is not a good photo. And this reason bothers me. She is at the TOP of Katadian and while she may have reached the end of the AT, she is far from the end of her hiking day. That mountain is very steep in many parts. While I don't know her particular level of alcohol tolerance, it is quite possible for a girl her size a full bottle of champagne could give her quite a buzz. I don't think the ATC should be PROMOTING the idea of descending the mountain inebriated. And this photo is most certainly promoting the idea of hiking down katadian with impaired ability.
As I tried to suggest earlier, opening a bottle of champagne after it has been carried in a pack 3 hours up a rough and steep trail, and then jumping around with the open bottle after reaching the summit, is unlikely to retain enough alcohol to make anyone inebriated, even if she was mean enough not to offer a nip or two to the photographer and friends who were with her.
The young lady was playing out a trail ritual, not realistically breaking any laws that any sensible ranger has ever enforced.
Weary
How Bout this Classy Lady
Lonesome Dove 2004
http://www.trailgallery.com/photos/1757/tj1757%5F092304%5F160026.jpg
"Haven't you seen a woman in a black dress before?"
A) I am a paying member
B) Your opinion. And a very insulting one at that,it must be hard being so perfect and right all the time.And no,I really don't care if you like it or not,I am sick to death of the I'm better/smarter then you attitude expressed by some of the more accomplished hikers here.
We all hike for a reason,known only to us. Some of us have a firm belief in God,some don't. Believe what you will but think about what you say first. [QUOTE=safn1949;1013850]
A firm belief in God and belief in the science behind evolution are not mutually exclusive. You can believe in both, you can believe in neither, or you can believe in one but not the other. It's a choice every person can make for himself.
Weary's pro-evolution believe is no more or less insulting than a belief that evolution did not occur and that creation occurred 6,000 years ago. You believe that you are right; so does he. Big whoop.
I can't believe I'm sticking up for that old fart. I think I'll shoot myself now.
[QUOTE=safn1949;1013850]
A firm belief in God and belief in the science behind evolution are not mutually exclusive. You can believe in both, you can believe in neither, or you can believe in one but not the other. It's a choice every person can make for himself.
Weary's pro-evolution believe is no more or less insulting than a belief that evolution did not occur and that creation occurred 6,000 years ago. You believe that you are right; so does he. Big whoop.
I can't believe I'm sticking up for that old fart. I think I'll shoot myself now.
I think you must be confused. The post you are responding to was criticizing me. I'm not an old fart.
BTW I just got back from working for three hours with six high school students on a special trail maintenance community service program.
The closest we came to discussing evolution were the several clumps of invasive, non native barberry near the cellar hole of an old farmstead. The kids said it wasn't impacting the footpath. I insisted they cut it anyway.
So please don't shoot yourself. The kids seemed to think I was just another adult with funny ideas, like thinking that some plants, like some ideas, are more deserving than others.
Weary
D'Artagnan
05-21-2010, 14:35
Haven't read one for a while. Are they getting less boring? I just read an old one yesterday and it was pretty... boring.
I haven't been an ATC member for years, but I'm thinking of joining back up.
Not trying to bust your chops or anything, but it made me chuckle that someone with a trail name "Luddite" would post on an internet site about a print publication being boring. :D
Cookerhiker
06-04-2010, 15:25
True. I meant to say section hikers too.
How long did it take you to section hike?
Didn't answer 'till now because I've been away for a few weeks. My first section hike was in 1977 (VT, Rt. 11 & 30 to Rt. 9) and my last was Gorham-to-Katahdin in 2005. Kept track of it all on a spreadsheet. That's a 28 year span but I didn't hike every one of those years because of little distractions like job, family, other trips etc.