View Full Version : My last trail days
Morpheus
05-16-2010, 22:13
Thanks to the obnoxious Sherriff's department presence at Traildays the last two years, I've decided this is my last visit until tent city lands on private property.
I saw multiple arrests for public intoxication and simple marijuana possession (a roach) to harmless individuals just having a good time. Friday night there was a great free jam band that got shut down after only playing one set. While the band was playing Johnny Law pulls a cruiser right up to the crowd and turns the headlights on the crowd so they can get a better look at who's doing what.
The local youth is the real problem. They come through at night trying to freeload beer and get threatening when you don't hand it over because they wouldn't show ID's. I don't need "contributing to a minor" on my resume. Sorry.
For those of you that aren't bothered, I salute your ability to look the other way, but I get incensed over hovering fascists. :mad:
ChinMusic
05-16-2010, 22:55
From what I saw, the authorities left folks alone unless:
1. There was an underage issue.
2. People acted stupid.
3. People were not discrete.
If participants conducted themselves "responsibly" and with a modicum of discretion they were left alone.
Kentucky_Fried
05-16-2010, 23:43
I agree that trail days sucks now and isn't really about what it was founded on. It's all about partying and cops not hiking. Most the people that attended weren't thru hikers they were past thru or sectional. The town is getting greedy for more money and they won't get any more of mine.
trailangelbronco
05-17-2010, 00:48
Trail days and the trail experience itself has changed alot over the years, it seems.
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 06:43
free camping + non-hikers = no control. this "festival" like many others, has turned into a major party. next year will be different. one entrance/exit and campers will be charged a fee and have wrist bands.
the local and county LEOs did a damn good job controlling what little they could
generoll
05-17-2010, 08:02
seemed like a well run event from where I sat. Trying to keep order on a bunch of free spirits like true hikers as well as wannabes, opportunists, and freeloaders has got to be like trying to herd cats. I don't know if the town makes money on the event or not, but I sure as hell hope they do.
One less party goer won't even be noticed.
modiyooch
05-17-2010, 08:20
LW, are these stats right (stripped from the headlines) ?
population 1,000
event crowd 30,000
how many drinking?
It's a challenge for any law enforcement. I'm sure Hickory, and other home towns as well, wouldn't even entertain the idea.
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 08:50
30,000 is probably what they figure between thursday and sunday. not all at one time. the majority of drinking goes on at the campground by a few hundred. many go to the campground just to party. they only leave to get more beer and drugs and never go into town for hiker related events
Lion King
05-17-2010, 10:23
I have to say the 'gestapo' seemed to be less of a presence then last year, but then I stayed away from the man-fire...lol...buncha dudes with their shirts off dancing around a fire never has been my cup of tea, or shine, or whatever.
I know plenty of people who did plenty of 'illegal' things that werent bothered one bit.
nontaxable liqour is delicious.
I wish they would keep the campground as it is now, except with no posion ivy/oak.
Blissful
05-17-2010, 10:23
Most the people that attended weren't thru hikers they were past thru or sectional. The town is getting greedy for more money and they won't get any more of mine.
HUH? Pardon - wha? What makes current thru hikers so special that they get their own festival? :eek:
I avoided the camp area myself (then, presto, you avoid the partying) and found the town helpful and townspeople amazing. Hats off to the Baptist church for all that they did too. I am glad to give the town my money.
Blissful
05-17-2010, 10:25
the local and county LEOs did a damn good job controlling what little they could
My thanks to them.
Though I was wondering about the helicopter, I had never seen that before -? Was that law enforcement?
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 10:31
Though I was wondering about the helicopter, I had never seen that before -? Was that law enforcement?
med flight. for an injured person on the creeper trail
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 10:36
I have to say the 'gestapo' seemed to be less of a presence then last year
a little harsh to call them gestapo. they're hardly nazis using terrorist methods to enforce laws. everyone arrested deserved to be arrested. without the police the camping area would be one large klusterphluck
ChinMusic
05-17-2010, 10:45
Though I was wondering about the helicopter, I had never seen that before...
I took a good look at it. It didn't appear to be black......;)
I did get buzzed by some military jets while hiking near Elk Garden. The guys at Thomas Knob said it shook the shelter.
ChinMusic
05-17-2010, 10:49
I hope the one LEO gal (WCSO) is OK after taking a header off her horse on Friday(?). Her horse bolted while trying to jump from the construction area onto the trail.
The Weasel
05-17-2010, 10:57
Those who do not like police enforcing laws in a community which pays them to do so should avoid the community (as the original post suggests) or, if they wish to criticise the police (or anything else), move to the community, pay taxes, and vote. Neither thru hikers nor anyone else is entitled to a "day pass" to ignore laws and common decency, much less in a small town that they do not live in.
TW
safn1949
05-17-2010, 10:59
It never ceases to amaze me the people who break the law and then get caught who say "but I was just..." fill in the blanks.
Newsflash....public intoxication and possession of weed is illegal there.As in against the law.Hello....you don't want get arrested,don't break the law.It really is that simple.:D
Lion King
05-17-2010, 11:07
a little harsh to call them gestapo. they're hardly nazis using terrorist methods to enforce laws. everyone arrested deserved to be arrested. without the police the camping area would be one large klusterphluck
Thas why I used the '-' around the word Gestapo, sorta' to say that in relation to the Initial posters remarks.
Hell, most of them were nice, even though people were walking by them pie eyed and staggering.
It never ceases to amaze me the people who break the law and then get caught who say "but I was just..." fill in the blanks.
Newsflash....public intoxication and possession of weed is illegal there.As in against the law.Hello....you don't want get arrested,don't break the law.It really is that simple.:D
exactly........
from my point of view,it was as well run as it could have been. Anytime, you have hundreds and maybe thousands of people scatterd throughout the woods, you are going tohave dumbasses coming out of the wood work, the cops did have a presence for which i am glad.....if not, we would of had a ("free for all anything goes"), which isnt good in any situation:-?
I live in Cheviot (Near where the OP lives) so Over enthusiastic police, illegal search & seizure, false arrest & etc, is a way of life here. In fact, when I say that "I live in the heart of what is left of the Nazi regime" Most know that I live in Cheviot.
So when I go to TD, I don't even notice, even at times thinking how laid back the police are.
But as lone Wolf rightly points out, so many go there just to party, the police start to look at everyone as being drunk or on drugs.
Cookerhiker
05-17-2010, 11:38
I agree that trail days sucks now and isn't really about what it was founded on. It's all about partying and cops not hiking. Most the people that attended weren't thru hikers they were past thru or sectional. The town is getting greedy for more money and they won't get any more of mine.
No, TDs did not "suck" and your statement is a disservice to all those who worked so hard planning and preparing for it as well as those who lead programs and presentations.
So are you saying that "most" of the people who attend TDs "should" be current year thruhikers? That would make for a pretty small "festival." I can't comment about TDs history or what the early years were like but I thought a major TDs aspect was past years' hikers - sectioners, thrus, part-wayers - came to celebrate the Trail and meet old and new friends.
As to locals and completely non-hiker-type attendees - yes, there were lots more than I expected. I was quite surprised when we were asked more than once by folks stopping by the Undulations table where and what the AT was! But so what? That's OK. In fact, many were genuinely curious about the AT and wanted to learn more so of course I evangelized! I talked for more than 1/2 an hour to one guy who never hiked before but really wanted to start some day. He kept asking questions and, seeing my loaded backpack behind the table, asked me if he could try it on! I obliged. He expressed admiration that I could carry such a heavy pack but I told him he'd leave me far behind if we hiked together since he was a marathon runner.
The Weasel
05-17-2010, 12:19
I'll add one further thought: I ask those who post here not to refer to police officers enforcing the law (even laws some don't agree with) as "Nazis" or "GestapoI've known both, when I lived in Germany in the 60s. Those were "police" - I use the term loosely - who killed others without any legal basis, tortured others, and disregarded the most basic human rights, all while under the control of Heinrich Himmler, a man as evil as Adolf Hitler and even more directly responsible for criminal police behavior.
Police in the USA work for civilians we elect. They do a difficult and dangerous job. One was murdered 10 days ago in my hometown, Detroit. He leaves a family that is now without a father and husband. Other police saved hundreds of lives a week or so ago in the Times Square incident. With the rarest of exceptions, these women and men act honorably, professionally, and with great consideration while being prepared to die defending our right to live in a safe society.
I've had my share of run-ins with police that I disagreed with, including along the AT. In some cases, their actions were foolish - or so I think - and ineffective or even counterproductive. But they do not deserve the insult of "Nazi" or "Gestapo" even in poor jest.
TW
trippclark
05-17-2010, 12:28
the local and county LEOs did a damn good job controlling what little they could
Agreed! Enjoyed TD again this year, and personally enjoy it much more without the presence (or at least visibility) of said illicit activities, so I was very pleased to see what I thought was greater visibility by LEOs.
Those who do not like police enforcing laws in a community which pays them to do so should avoid the community (as the original post suggests) or, if they wish to criticise the police (or anything else), move to the community, pay taxes, and vote. Neither thru hikers nor anyone else is entitled to a "day pass" to ignore laws and common decency, much less in a small town that they do not live in.
TW
I agree. I complain my fair share about cops and mostly state troopers, but we need them. I would like to see how long anyone with a "***** the police" attitude would last in an anarchic society before they began crying and begging on their knees for the cops to come back.
Thanks to the obnoxious Sherriff's department presence at Traildays the last two years, I've decided this is my last visit until tent city lands on private property.
I saw multiple arrests for public intoxication and simple marijuana possession (a roach) to harmless individuals just having a good time. Friday night there was a great free jam band that got shut down after only playing one set. While the band was playing Johnny Law pulls a cruiser right up to the crowd and turns the headlights on the crowd so they can get a better look at who's doing what.
The local youth is the real problem. They come through at night trying to freeload beer and get threatening when you don't hand it over because they wouldn't show ID's. I don't need "contributing to a minor" on my resume. Sorry.
For those of you that aren't bothered, I salute your ability to look the other way, but I get incensed over hovering fascists. :mad:
another point i might add, staying in tent city is a personal choice and can be avoided by exploring many other avenues...tent city is not what trail days is all about, suck it up, enjoy what all aspects that trail days has to offer.
double d
05-17-2010, 13:50
I'll add one further thought: I ask those who post here not to refer to police officers enforcing the law (even laws some don't agree with) as "Nazis" or "GestapoI've known both, when I lived in Germany in the 60s. Those were "police" - I use the term loosely - who killed others without any legal basis, tortured others, and disregarded the most basic human rights, all while under the control of Heinrich Himmler, a man as evil as Adolf Hitler and even more directly responsible for criminal police behavior.
Police in the USA work for civilians we elect. They do a difficult and dangerous job. One was murdered 10 days ago in my hometown, Detroit. He leaves a family that is now without a father and husband. Other police saved hundreds of lives a week or so ago in the Times Square incident. With the rarest of exceptions, these women and men act honorably, professionally, and with great consideration while being prepared to die defending our right to live in a safe society.
I've had my share of run-ins with police that I disagreed with, including along the AT. In some cases, their actions were foolish - or so I think - and ineffective or even counterproductive. But they do not deserve the insult of "Nazi" or "Gestapo" even in poor jest.
TW
Thank you, very well written-lets leave out the symbolism of Nazis whenever we disagree with someone-or some organization, especially when refering to police officers.
Just some facts: there were a total of between ten and fifteen arrests during Trail Days. I will post more information later concerning the breakdown between local persons arrested and out-of-towners arrested.
Someone named "Kentucky Fried" posted that the town was getting greedy. Because the town did not charge for camping this year, and because they farmed out the parking concession, the town lost money. Individual businesses and vendors made money, which is good and keeps them coming back. But the town did not make anything.
As Lone Wolf has said earlier, next year there will be a camping fee, and tighter control of who comes and goes in the campground, and much better parking. We will welcome your suggestions on how to improve things, and once again invite hikers to join us on the Trail Days committee.
Thanks to the obnoxious Sherriff's department presence at Traildays the last two years, I've decided this is my last visit until tent city lands on private property.
I saw multiple arrests for public intoxication and simple marijuana possession (a roach) to harmless individuals just having a good time. Friday night there was a great free jam band that got shut down after only playing one set. While the band was playing Johnny Law pulls a cruiser right up to the crowd and turns the headlights on the crowd so they can get a better look at who's doing what.
The local youth is the real problem. They come through at night trying to freeload beer and get threatening when you don't hand it over because they wouldn't show ID's. I don't need "contributing to a minor" on my resume. Sorry.
For those of you that aren't bothered, I salute your ability to look the other way, but I get incensed over hovering fascists. :mad:
I agree that trail days sucks now and isn't really about what it was founded on. It's all about partying and cops not hiking. Most the people that attended weren't thru hikers they were past thru or sectional. The town is getting greedy for more money and they won't get any more of mine.Well I won't mess you two.......:sun
ChinMusic
05-17-2010, 15:05
As Lone Wolf has said earlier, next year there will be a camping fee, and tighter control of who comes and goes in the campground, and much better parking. We will welcome your suggestions on how to improve things, and once again invite hikers to join us on the Trail Days committee.
This was my first Trail Days and I was impressed at the organization and preparation from the town. I thought the level of LEO activity was more than fair. If someone wasn't being stupid or underage, they were left alone. For those of-age it was a don't-ask-don't-tell situation.
I was blown away by the amount of work that some groups did in their areas, especially Riff Raff. My buddy said that Superman was just that. I can only assume his area was spotless before they left.
I'll be back.
Tuckahoe
05-17-2010, 15:39
Granted I have never been to Trail Days, but based on the couple comments made here there are some that need to learn how to be respectful guests when they are visiting another community. Its not that community's obligation to accept your bad behavior and law breaking.
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 15:44
I was blown away by the amount of work that some groups did in their areas, especially Riff Raff. My buddy said that Superman was just that. I can only assume his area was spotless before they left.
riff raff wasn't always spotless http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15094&highlight=riff+raff+trail+days
freefall
05-17-2010, 15:57
riff raff wasn't always spotless http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15094&highlight=riff+raff+trail+days
And no one from Riff Raff denies the past but great inroads have been made.
And no one from Riff Raff denies the past but great inroads have been made.
the trash during trail days is the real problem
So why isn't anybody talking about the rape in tent city? This wasn't a hiker. An Abbingdon man raped a woman in tent city. When help arrived she was unresponsive. Her head wrapped up in a sleeping bag. He was arrested. Where is all of the news about this? Where is the indignation?
So why isn't anybody talking about the rape in tent city? This wasn't a hiker. An Abbingdon man raped a woman in tent city. When help arrived she was unresponsive. Her head wrapped up in a sleeping bag. He was arrested. Where is all of the news about this? Where is the indignation?
thats the kind of trash i was talking about.......i heard about the rape....but have heard no details or follw up
My daughter was a witness. She and my wife got the police. My daughter is 18. She has grown up with thru-hikers staying in our house every year. Most of whom we did not know. We met on the trail. I don't know how this has scarred her. She won't open up about it yet. She has wanted to thru-hike since she was very young. She has been to Trail Days and stayed in tent city even though my better judgement felt it was not appropriate, but she knows the hikers and feels apart of them...now this.
So why isn't anybody talking about the rape in tent city? This wasn't a hiker. An Abbingdon man raped a woman in tent city. When help arrived she was unresponsive. Her head wrapped up in a sleeping bag. He was arrested. Where is all of the news about this? Where is the indignation?
At this point the story is that the victim was a local woman, and the perpetrator was not a local person, but someone with a trail name who claimed affiliation with one of the groups in the campground. He is in custody without bond. When the real story is available I will put a link here to the details.
safn1949
05-17-2010, 17:11
I can assure you all of one thing,the law in Virginia is quite harsh for this type of crime and this dirtbag is looking at a sentence up to life because she was injured.
Virginia also has what is called the 85% rule,you do 85% of the sentence before you are ever considered for parole,that's a minimum of 8.5 years for every 10.If she doesn't survive,it will almost certainly be life without parole.
Lets keep this poor girl in our thoughts as well as Boudin's daughter,I hope they both recover from this.
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 17:23
the perpetrator was not a local person, but someone with a trail name who claimed affiliation with one of the groups in the campground.
riff raff....
SawnieRobertson
05-17-2010, 17:24
I have to say the 'gestapo' seemed to be less of a presence then last year, but then I stayed away from the man-fire...lol...buncha dudes with their shirts off dancing around a fire never has been my cup of tea, or shine, or whatever.
Haha! Don't you mean the GUESTAPO? Last year's tx of me just because I needed to go to the Leki repair booth was a huge turn off and an infurriating one. This year though I noticed some uniformed men actually smiling and laughing in the vendors' area.--Kinnickinic
I atended Trail Days. It was my 7 th time. Considering the difficulties created by the construction of the ball fields I think most everything went off well.
I think that all who attended owe a big "thank you" to the folks who worked hard to orginize the events and get the tenting area ready.
Blissful
05-17-2010, 18:35
My daughter was a witness. She and my wife got the police. My daughter is 18. She has grown up with thru-hikers staying in our house every year. Most of whom we did not know. We met on the trail. I don't know how this has scarred her. She won't open up about it yet. She has wanted to thru-hike since she was very young. She has been to Trail Days and stayed in tent city even though my better judgement felt it was not appropriate, but she knows the hikers and feels apart of them...now this.
This is awful to hear. I had not heard about this until now. I am so sorry and sad for you all.
Tent city is any US town not immune to crime.
Jim Adams
05-17-2010, 20:03
I agree that trail days sucks now and isn't really about what it was founded on. It's all about partying and cops not hiking. Most the people that attended weren't thru hikers they were past thru or sectional. The town is getting greedy for more money and they won't get any more of mine.
This was my 18th TD's in 20 years...it hasn't changed, it just got bigger. It has always been about the partying (relaxing in town) since my first year in 1990.
I had a great time but the local drunks are causing problems.
geek
Jim Adams
05-17-2010, 20:24
The rape incident that Boudin mentions was next to our camp. I was there to offer assistance for the young woman as a paramedic but one of the police officers was also a paramedic and had the situation handled. The man was not a hiker, he was wearing blue jeans and work boots (as was the victim) and stated to the police that he was camping back in the woods with a group but that he didn't know anyone at Trail Days. I was there when he told them this.
OTOH, I thought that the law enforcement at this years event was the best in years. Their presence was shown but they only took action when people were stupid...as long as the area was peaceful they overlooked alot of things and I think that made them even more welcomed. I thought that it was the best coverage in years.
geek
Morpheus
05-17-2010, 20:28
Damascus is a great trail town and the the people that put their sweat into the festival...I salute you.
I retract what I said about the over bearing police presence; specifically in light of a true crime having been committed. I never considered it a possibility in such a large crowd at tent city.
Consuming large quantities of alcohol has a deliterious effect on remaining discreet about anything. My fault. It broke my heart and angered me to see Josie (09 thru) busted because she was unlucky enough to be the one holding the herb when the po-po just happened to look our way (in the Riff Raff area).
Although Riff Raff partys hard and loud, they don't promote illegal substance and I can attest that at least for the last two years they bag up the garbage.
I hope I live to see the day when THC is legal, controlled, and the public wakes up to how much worse alcohol is in comparison.
I do take in the town activities and thoroughly feel at home with my kindred trail brothers and sisters.
Sorry if I rubbed anybody the wrong way. Hike on.
Between Monday May 10 and Sunday May 16 there were ten arrests in the Damascus jurisdiction. Out of these ten, nine were either underage-drinking or driving under the influence. There was one arrest for sexual assault. The person arrested for assault was not from this area. Reportedly he is being held without bond. The victim was from this area but not from Damascus. The perpetrator identified himself with one group in the campground but from what I can tell, was not known by members of that group before Trail Days.
Two more cases are working and may be filed, which would bring the total arrests to twelve.
ShakeyLeggs
05-17-2010, 21:27
Local, and all the individuals that live in Damascus and all the volunteers that give up their valuable time to put on Trail Daze a BIG THANK YOU for all you do. I know it is not an easy task to organize, and pull off this colossal feat. Again THANK YOU.
I was not able to attend due to work but I do plan on attending as many as I can in the future.
I personally welcome the increased police presence. Lord knows they have a very hard job to do. They have to walk a very thin line. They can't be seen as overbearing and they can't be seen as being to lenient. With the amount of people attending and only having 10 arrests with a possible 2 more that is nothing for the numbers that attend. Yes it is 12 more than it should be but people will be stupid. Just think of the amount in dollars of the gear that is in town throughout the weekend and the amount that is actually stolen. A large part of keeping the gear and attendees safe must go the the police presence. To the Police a BIG THANK YOU. Also a large pat on the back for a job well done.
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 21:28
Between Monday May 10 and Sunday May 16 there were ten arrests in the Damascus jurisdiction. Out of these ten, nine were either underage-drinking or driving under the influence. There was one arrest for sexual assault. The person arrested for assault was not from this area. Reportedly he is being held without bond. The victim was from this area but not from Damascus. The perpetrator identified himself with one group in the campground but from what I can tell, was not known by members of that group before Trail Days.
Two more cases are working and may be filed, which would bring the total arrests to twelve.
and the point? more and more "local" types will be showing up for this party next year and the years to come. the crimes will worsen. just watch. i've said it for years. won't be long before a death occurs out there from alcohol poisoning or drug OD or manslaughter. there woulda been triple the arrests had the LEOs not been so lenient. the campground situation is a blight on TDs. sounds negative but i know what's happenin'
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 21:35
and there were ONLY 10 arrests because Damascus LEOs were spread thin. the camping was so spread out with all kinds of access points and exits
Never seems fair to arrest a few for doing what most others are.
Between Monday May 10 and Sunday May 16 there were ten arrests in the Damascus jurisdiction. Out of these ten, nine were either underage-drinking or driving under the influence. There was one arrest for sexual assault. The person arrested for assault was not from this area. Reportedly he is being held without bond. The victim was from this area but not from Damascus. The perpetrator identified himself with one group in the campground but from what I can tell, was not known by members of that group before Trail Days.
Two more cases are working and may be filed, which would bring the total arrests to twelve.
Never seems fair to arrest a few for doing what most others are.
Well, I imagine you aren't referring to the arrests described above by Local....
But I understand the clarification needed. People of all ages were enjoying weed and drinks, the sexual assault in local's quote is a different matter.
Appalachian Tater
05-17-2010, 23:03
Smoking weed is not illegal, only possession. The lesson is smoke it all and don't save the roaches.
The way I understood the earlier post, between Monday and Sunday, there were ten arrests, nine were either underage drinking or driving under the influence.....what's unfair about getting popped for DUI or underage drinking? Remember, we're talking about a nearly week-long event....
and the point? more and more "local" types will be showing up for this party next year and the years to come. the crimes will worsen. just watch. i've said it for years. won't be long before a death occurs out there from alcohol poisoning or drug OD or manslaughter. there woulda been triple the arrests had the LEOs not been so lenient. the campground situation is a blight on TDs. sounds negative but i know what's happenin'
Hey, Wolf, once again I issue you an invitation to join the Trail Days committee. There are only about six or seven of us, and we need your help. You have the knowledge and the expertise which would do us a lot of good. Your contacts in the hiker community give you credibility far beyond those of us who are just local folk wanting to help make this a good event for visitors. You don't even have to come to the boring meetings, just be available to give us practical advice.
Several of us share your concerns about the growing number of outsiders coming to the campground, and we want to take some strong steps next year to keep this down. You can help us. Come on, Marine, get your boots on and get up here on the line.
Never seems fair to arrest a few for doing what most others are.
Davy, that's what I say to the judge every time I get hauled in for speeding.
modiyooch
05-18-2010, 08:35
The way I understood the earlier post, between Monday and Sunday, there were ten arrests, nine were either underage drinking or driving under the influence.....what's unfair about getting popped for DUI or underage drinking? Remember, we're talking about a nearly week-long event....I wish the guy driving the wrong way on the interstate in Hickory Friday evening had been arrested before getting behind the wheel. I wonder how long the good people of Damascus will continue to tolerate and accommodate. I believe it's just a matter of time. It only takes a few to ruin a good thing.
Lone Wolf
05-18-2010, 08:49
Several of us share your concerns about the growing number of outsiders coming to the campground, and we want to take some strong steps next year to keep this down. You can help us. Come on, Marine, get your boots on and get up here on the line.
i will come to next year's meetings. i'm not sure i will be here for TDs itself though.
rambunny
05-18-2010, 11:23
Thank You Damascus!!!!!!
i will come to next year's meetings. i'm not sure i will be here for TDs itself though.
This is very good news. We won't ask you to sit through the meetings, some of which can numb your mind ("do we need six porta-johns in this place or eight?") but just having your input on a number of things will be invaluable. Everyone has great respect for your knowledge. We are acutely aware of the trends in the campground, and next year want to bring this back to what the original Trail Days was designed to do.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-18-2010, 16:07
Wonderful to hear that LW will be part of the TD committee. LW has a lot of knowledge of the AT hiking community and a no-nosense approach to getting things done that should be a great assets to the committee.
I didn't attend TD this year because our youngest hatchling graduated from college that weekend. I had planned to attend TD on Saturday only and to stay in Abingdon to hike over near Hungry Mother State Park in the Jefferson National forest the following week. The AT is just too darn crowded in that area during the week before and after TD.
I have attended several TDs in the past and found the local LEOs and LEOs who come from other other towns to help to be very laid back. I have seen them overlook fairly obvious behavior in the campground that would normally have gotten their attention as long as people were not causing problems and minors where not part of the mix. As I recall a minor from Abingdon nearly died several years ago due to having been given large qualities of alcohol in the tent city - it is little wonder that the LEOs take minors in proximity to alcohol seriously in light of that incident.
Local mentions that the campground will have a fee and that armbands will be required to enter. This is fantastic news even though it means I will not be able to enter to visit friends there unless I camp there or pay the fee. My guess is that it will cut down on thefts & other crimes and on local minors & adult non-hikers partying in tent city.
I had a blast at TD! This was my first time going, and it far exceeded my expectations. I did not feel the police were there to ruin the party. The people who got arrested or ticketed were probably being disrespectful when the police confronted them. One of my friends had the choice of being escorted back to his tent or he could get a ticket for underage drinking. Obviously he chose the escort. But I thought that was pretty cool that they didn't just go around writing tickets and making arrests.
The rape is a tragedy. I'm sure alcohol was involved. Stuff like that doesn't usually happen on the trial because people don't drink a whole lot when they're actually hiking. Nobody wants to carry around a bottle of booze...it weighs too much! Just be smart when you're around a bunch of drunk strangers.
I had a guy try to get into my tent the 2nd night I was there. He was obviously drunk because he tried to get in on the wrong side. It woke me up, and when I said, "EXCUSE ME!" he apologized and wandered off. I supposed he was just lost. I did set my tent up next to 2 other identical ones...
~Goldie Locks
CherrypieScout
05-18-2010, 17:06
I love Trail Days. The towns people are wonderful handling the huge crowds. I love the thru hikers. Interesting folks. I don't hang out at the campground, just spend money at Food City, Quincys, Mojo's, Dariy King and vendors and soak up the happy atmosphere. The half marathon was well ran and a unique experience for me. I didn't realize the helicopter was there for a rescue. I thought, "wow, a helicopter for the parade!" I'll continue to drive up and spend the weekend.
Lone Wolf
05-18-2010, 17:14
Local mentions that the campground will have a fee and that armbands will be required to enter. This is fantastic news even though it means I will not be able to enter to visit friends there unless I camp there or pay the fee. My guess is that it will cut down on thefts & other crimes and on local minors & adult non-hikers partying in tent city.
my idea is to have one gate for entering and exiting the campground. everyone must have a wristband. everone gets IDed. anyone under 21 wears a bright pink or whatever band. i would charge $15 per person to camp thursday - monday morning. $20 more for secure parking. the area where the gear reps are will not require wristbands and will have a different entrance. the camping gate should be staffed 24 hours a day. anyone that loses a band must repay to enter. visitors also pay $15 to enter
i have lots more ideas for the actual camping areas including a NO ALCOHOL section
...
i have lots more ideas for the actual camping areas including a NO ALCOHOL section
That's an outstanding idea. The local semipro baseball team has a no-booze section and it's hugely popular. Quite a few people don't want to be around people boozing and/or doping.
Lone Wolf
05-18-2010, 17:22
That's an outstanding idea. The local semipro baseball team has a no-booze section and it's hugely popular. Quite a few people don't want to be people boozing and/or doping.
Bristol Motor Speedway has an alcohol free section
my idea is to have one gate for entering and exiting the campground. everyone must have a wristband. everone gets IDed. anyone under 21 wears a bright pink or whatever band. i would charge $15 per person to camp thursday - monday morning. $20 more for secure parking. the area where the gear reps are will not require wristbands and will have a different entrance. the camping gate should be staffed 24 hours a day. anyone that loses a band must repay to enter. visitors also pay $15 to enter
i have lots more ideas for the actual camping areas including a NO ALCOHOL section
Amen to this. I think the no-alcohol section should be one of the nicer creek-side areas, maybe the area around the old swimming hole, or up by some of the rapids in Beaverdam Creek. I'm supportive of all your ideas here. I would add the requirement that anyone from within a 25-mile radius should have to pay a deposit of $1,000, and then if they don't get arrested they get their deposit back. This idea may not get a lot of support, however.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-18-2010, 17:57
I told He-Dino about LW's ideas and he said we might camp there again if there was limited access and a no-booze section. You know we Dinos need our beauty rest or we are subject to bite toes and whip people with our tails. :D
Seriously, someone threw up on our tent and another person fell on our tent (both while we were in it) the last time we camped in the tent city (same year the kid got so ill). He-Dino said never again.
Blissful
05-18-2010, 18:12
my idea is to have one gate for entering and exiting the campground. everyone must have a wristband. everone gets IDed. anyone under 21 wears a bright pink or whatever band. i would charge $15 per person to camp thursday - monday morning. $20 more for secure parking. the area where the gear reps are will not require wristbands and will have a different entrance. the camping gate should be staffed 24 hours a day. anyone that loses a band must repay to enter. visitors also pay $15 to enter
i have lots more ideas for the actual camping areas including a NO ALCOHOL section
Sounds good. Esp the access to to gear reps (which was a little of a headache previous years, being connected to the campground. We walked in anyway without paying - we were not camping - so we could get Leki poles serviced)
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 18:49
Just some facts: there were a total of between ten and fifteen arrests during Trail Days. I will post more information later concerning the breakdown between local persons arrested and out-of-towners arrested.
Someone named "Kentucky Fried" posted that the town was getting greedy. Because the town did not charge for camping this year, and because they farmed out the parking concession, the town lost money. Individual businesses and vendors made money, which is good and keeps them coming back. But the town did not make anything.
As Lone Wolf has said earlier, next year there will be a camping fee, and tighter control of who comes and goes in the campground, and much better parking. We will welcome your suggestions on how to improve things, and once again invite hikers to join us on the Trail Days committee.
To you, the town, and the countless other volunteers, but especially to those who helped prep the campground, thank you. I along with many others I spoke with had a wonderful time and you all did a great job considering the construction situation. We were very fortunate that it didn’t rain too much and that poison ivy seemed to be the main concern. Many, including myself who use to camp in the fields found out just how nice ‘and cool’ it was to be in the woods. I also felt the Leo's were fine and friendly and did what they had to do when they had to do. I did see and talk with quite a few local youth, mostly underage, ‘cruising’, ‘not camping’ in the campground. I’m not really sure why, but if we do get permission to use the ball fields next year and have ‘controlled’ in and out entrance(s) with use of wrist band(s) for certain purposes that should help some. Local I have a few suggestion to offer in that area, (just don’t forget to show up for coffee this time) and I’m sure those in charge would welcome ideas and suggestion that would help make this event flourish in the future.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 18:51
my idea is to have one gate for entering and exiting the campground. everyone must have a wristband. everone gets IDed. anyone under 21 wears a bright pink or whatever band. i would charge $15 per person to camp thursday - monday morning. $20 more for secure parking. the area where the gear reps are will not require wristbands and will have a different entrance. the camping gate should be staffed 24 hours a day. anyone that loses a band must repay to enter. visitors also pay $15 to enter
i have lots more ideas for the actual camping areas including a NO ALCOHOL section
I see you were paying attention during our coffee:)
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 18:58
riff raff wasn't always spotless http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15094&highlight=riff+raff+trail+days
They weren't always that way, but maybe they’ve changed, all I know is that we left Billville the way all who camped there or anywhere should, spotless.
Jim Adams
05-18-2010, 19:00
LW,
ALL GREAT IDEAS!!!!!!!!
I had a wonderful time...I had arrived a little pissed at the town due to the constant change every year and what seemed like a lack of committment by the town towards the hiking community but that quickly passed once I had arrived. This was one of the best TD's that I've attended. Thanks to all!
geek
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 19:01
the trash during trail days is the real problem
The presence of a few more strategically placed dumpsters may help.
QuebecRun
05-18-2010, 19:01
I was there for first time and also had a great time. All of it! Stayed in camping area. People were great. Cops were fine by me. Thanks for having the shower house open. I'd definitely stay in a NO ALCOHOL section.
Jim Adams
05-18-2010, 19:02
Local or LW,
What was the charge for the dumpster in tent city?
geek
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 19:04
This was my 18th TD's in 20 years...it hasn't changed, it just got bigger. It has always been about the partying (relaxing in town) since my first year in 1990.
I had a great time but the local drunks are causing problems.
geek
I agree:) saw one passed out in a chair on the right just before entering the campground:eek: Someone may have a picture of him, 'comon now'
Jim Adams
05-18-2010, 19:06
BoT's,
Seriously, we did have a problem with a drunk local in our camp but we handled the problem w/o LEO's and defused the situation.
geek
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 19:11
and the point? more and more "local" types will be showing up for this party next year and the years to come. the crimes will worsen. just watch. i've said it for years. won't be long before a death occurs out there from alcohol poisoning or drug OD or manslaughter. there woulda been triple the arrests had the LEOs not been so lenient. the campground situation is a blight on TDs. sounds negative but i know what's happenin'
So what 'do' you do about it.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-18-2010, 19:27
and the point? more and more "local" types will be showing up for this party next year and the years to come. the crimes will worsen. just watch. i've said it for years. won't be long before a death occurs out there from alcohol poisoning or drug OD or manslaughter. there woulda been triple the arrests had the LEOs not been so lenient. the campground situation is a blight on TDs. sounds negative but i know what's happenin'
BoT's,
Seriously, we did have a problem with a drunk local in our camp but we handled the problem w/o LEO's and defused the situation.
geek
Yea I think I know who you mean, well all these ideas for future trail days are only words and you know what they say about words.., "it's dialog and that's a start":)
Jim Adams
05-18-2010, 19:32
Had an intoxicated male about 30 years old walk into camp, sat down in one of the camp chairs and began to hit on my son-in-laws sister. He was friendly at the time, not obnoxious and carried on conversation with us all. He was from Abingdon. He then sat his cup of beer (which he had brought with him) in the cup holder on the chair and passed out. He was not a problem at this point so we let him sleep. About 2 hours later a few of our clan returned to camp and the gentleman who owned the chair that the man was sitting in wanted to sit down. I attempted to awake him 3 or 4 times and finally he opened his eyes and looked at me. I looked him square in the face and politely stated that he needed to move because the owner of the chair had returned. He said no. I informed him that I was going to summon the police and he just laughed and closed his eyes again. I tapped him on his knee and asked him again to get up. He sat forward, threw his cup if beer on me, sat back in the chair, crossed his arms and said "make me". I told him to get out of my camp and again he refused. I have always been a non-violent person but with the beer toss, I lost my temper. I stood up, tipped the chair over backward and my son-in-law put him in a head lock on the ground and told him to calm down or he was going to be hurt. He said OK and was released and got to his feet. A fellow hiker walking past and seeing the incident asked if we had a problem and I said yes. He calmly and professionaly put the intoxicated man in an arm lock behind his back and escorted the man to the bingo hall parking lot and released him there. There was no further incident.
geek
Johnny Thunder
05-18-2010, 20:07
Local...thank you again for a fantastic weekend. Your planning and hard work showed.
Wolf, Trix, et al...I agree with the heightened security/wristband ideas for next year. As this has only been my third Trail Days I can't really compare this year's experience with that of old. But, I did have a great time and thought that it was nicer for most folks to be camped in the woods (though this did mean that my prime real estate was taken up by the usual field crowd).
That said, I'd like to see ALL hiker services and gear reps in the town park. It's a charming idea to have tent city be a one-stop (with the addition of Jeremiah opening up across the street with beer) for hikers but I think that folks should be pressured to go downtown and "give back" to their hosts.
Also, I think it should be mandatory that all underage campers (locals and thru-hikers) set up in the no-alcohol section. I'm not sure how this would be policed or managed but at least you wouldn't have the packs of underagers car camping and getting wasted in the woods.
I'd also like to see the camps police themselves a bit more. In 2009 the drum circle'rs found their way into our camp and I had no problem telling the LEO's where we were or that there were a number of folks in our camp that we didn't know. I can vouch that the only people that were made aware of the police presence in our camp were those not intended to be there in the first place (i.e. the 17-year-olds raiding our coolers).
I worked as a movie theater projectionist. During the afternoon we'd sell senior citizen discounted matinée tickets by the dozens. Bruce Willis was jumping through plate glass windows and thousands of seniors spent countless hours not having heart attacks.
I was sure that by adding up the total amount of time that seniors spent watching action movies it would equal at least one lifetime. But still, no one died.
It's a tragic way of looking at things but to think in those terms it is not surprising that crime and injury happens at Trail Days but that we don't see MORE of it. I think this says a lot about the amount of planning and attention the event receives and how conscientious most of the intended attendees are.
i've suggested a similar idea before in previous td threads but i'd like to expand my idea on wrist bands
one color for those camping and over 21
one color for those camping and under 21
one color for those just visiting and over 21
one color for those just visiting and under 21
that way everyone can quickly identify those are 'just visiting' and yes i think it should be charged for... i don't think its a crazy idea.... the town is going out of its way to let 2000-ish people camp in the woods, charging could pay for the extra emergency personal and porta johns and what not... i do however hope it stays at a lower price/price for the weekend type thing
Bulldawg
05-18-2010, 20:56
Bristol Motor Speedway has an alcohol free section
Every racetrack I've ever been too (and I've been to most all of them in the south) have an alcohol free section. I think its a great idea. Still, if my kids are with me, we will be spending the days in town and the nights camping at one of the numerous campgrounds within half an hour of town.
ChinMusic
05-18-2010, 21:39
Thanks for having the shower house open.
You gotta get that shower at the right time. There is no way the water heater can keep up with that demand.
A Rinnai Tankless Water Heater is probably out of the question...........;)
Lone Wolf
05-18-2010, 23:19
I see you were paying attention during our coffee:)
i had these ideas long before discussions with you or anyone else
Lone Wolf
05-18-2010, 23:33
i've suggested a similar idea before in previous td threads but i'd like to expand my idea on wrist bands
one color for those camping and over 21
one color for those camping and under 21
one color for those just visiting and over 21
one color for those just visiting and under 21
that way everyone can quickly identify those are 'just visiting' and yes i think it should be charged for... i don't think its a crazy idea.... the town is going out of its way to let 2000-ish people camp in the woods, charging could pay for the extra emergency personal and porta johns and what not... i do however hope it stays at a lower price/price for the weekend type thing
nope. one color, one price for 21+. the same for under 21.
you are completely misrepresenting the facts here, morpheus. the individual that arranged for the band told the Poice Chief that he had spoken to the fire chief and the town mayor ( and had not) before getting the ok to even have the band play (which had never been done before). also the police did NOT come riding up in the car to the sight of the band behind the bingo building. the band was allowed to play until midnight on fri, more than one set, and did not play on sat at all. the band was very polite and courteous when asked to shut down, since it was in somewhat of a residential area (maybe you don't care about the local residents, but I do). The sheriffs dept had nothing to do with telling the band to shut down, I did, the local police. and what you are refering to with the car and lights was over at the general store after they had finished with the BLUEGRASS music that is played every sat night, when the proprietor (fancy word for owner) turned on the song "bad boys" with the door wide open, as a joke, at 1130pm, after he had officially closed on sat. I do agree with the major prob being some of the local youth, but, if you think you can just ignore the laws because you are a hiker, and don't have to live in town and answer to the residents of the town, then don't come back, you won't be missed. Maybe you should be a little more free with the truth about what happened and not so free with the name calling and insults. To the majority of the hikers that participated in this years TD, we look forward to next year, because for the most part you were all very polite and respectful, of myself and the people who live in Damascus.
Thanks to the obnoxious Sherriff's department presence at Traildays the last two years, I've decided this is my last visit until tent city lands on private property.
I saw multiple arrests for public intoxication and simple marijuana possession (a roach) to harmless individuals just having a good time. Friday night there was a great free jam band that got shut down after only playing one set. While the band was playing Johnny Law pulls a cruiser right up to the crowd and turns the headlights on the crowd so they can get a better look at who's doing what.
The local youth is the real problem. They come through at night trying to freeload beer and get threatening when you don't hand it over because they wouldn't show ID's. I don't need "contributing to a minor" on my resume. Sorry.
For those of you that aren't bothered, I salute your ability to look the other way, but I get incensed over hovering fascists. :mad:
You are welcome and you are welcome, to return. we appreciate the fact that people come to have a good time, but, there are still laws to be enforced. I don't ever want to be any more strict, or lenient, on an individual just because they are a hiker. as with anything some are great folks, some are not, just like the local citizenry. enjoy your hike.
Local, and all the individuals that live in Damascus and all the volunteers that give up their valuable time to put on Trail Daze a BIG THANK YOU for all you do. I know it is not an easy task to organize, and pull off this colossal feat. Again THANK YOU.
I was not able to attend due to work but I do plan on attending as many as I can in the future.
I personally welcome the increased police presence. Lord knows they have a very hard job to do. They have to walk a very thin line. They can't be seen as overbearing and they can't be seen as being to lenient. With the amount of people attending and only having 10 arrests with a possible 2 more that is nothing for the numbers that attend. Yes it is 12 more than it should be but people will be stupid. Just think of the amount in dollars of the gear that is in town throughout the weekend and the amount that is actually stolen. A large part of keeping the gear and attendees safe must go the the police presence. To the Police a BIG THANK YOU. Also a large pat on the back for a job well done.
Lone Wolf
05-19-2010, 05:40
Friday night there was a great free jam band that got shut down after only playing one set. While the band was playing Johnny Law pulls a cruiser right up to the crowd and turns the headlights on the crowd so they can get a better look at who's doing what.
i showed shortly after 11:00 PM and noticed the car too. it was the fire chief and an associate in a Damascus Volunteer Fire Dept. vehicle. kinda looked like a PD vehicle
generoll
05-19-2010, 07:09
since the author of this thread has stated he won't be back, who cares what he thinks?
you are completely misrepresenting the facts here, morpheus. the individual that arranged for the band told the Poice Chief that he had spoken to the fire chief and the town mayor ( and had not) before getting the ok to even have the band play (which had never been done before). also the police did NOT come riding up in the car to the sight of the band behind the bingo building. the band was allowed to play until midnight on fri, more than one set, and did not play on sat at all. the band was very polite and courteous when asked to shut down, since it was in somewhat of a residential area (maybe you don't care about the local residents, but I do). The sheriffs dept had nothing to do with telling the band to shut down, I did, the local police. and what you are refering to with the car and lights was over at the general store after they had finished with the BLUEGRASS music that is played every sat night, when the proprietor (fancy word for owner) turned on the song "bad boys" with the door wide open, as a joke, at 1130pm, after he had officially closed on sat. I do agree with the major prob being some of the local youth, but, if you think you can just ignore the laws because you are a hiker, and don't have to live in town and answer to the residents of the town, then don't come back, you won't be missed. Maybe you should be a little more free with the truth about what happened and not so free with the name calling and insults. To the majority of the hikers that participated in this years TD, we look forward to next year, because for the most part you were all very polite and respectful, of myself and the people who live in Damascus.
I really had a great time, and had no problem with the law coming in and doing their job. People need to think about the risks involved before they act, and it usually is the last person that gets caught instead and that is jsut life.
Bulldawg
05-19-2010, 09:15
Hey, I've got a novel idea......
Obey the laws and you don't have to worry about going to jail!!!
:eek::eek::-?:-?
As much of a hassle it would be for LEOs, the only way to curb illegal activity is to arrest all offenders. Usually, LEOs use discretion to determine if an offense is something that needs to be formally addressed. Sometimes a good scare is enough. However, I don't think any of the proposed ideas would be all that effective. Kids have been getting around wristbands for decades. And any other form of "tagging", for that matter.
My suggestion is this. Arrest the offenders, and give them a choice: they could come back to Damascus 14 days from the offense to perform community service or they could let the case enter the court system. I would guess most would choose the first, but it would be painful to a thruhiker who has hiked north.
Either way, the strong arm of the law is the only way you are gonna get folks to stop breaking it. I offer this only because it seems that letting minor illegal activity slide and kept under control is not an option. I have seen that approach done both successfully and unsuccessfully, so no judgment, but it is clear that Damascus is not open to a controlled party zone. In my mind, the only option then is to arrest all offenders. This will be the only deterrent. Especially when the "crime" is something the guy next to you is doing legally.
Ah, the good 'ol days by the crick. (of course, don't think any of the townspeople kept up by us partying long for those days).
Lion King
05-19-2010, 10:53
you are completely misrepresenting the facts here, morpheus. the individual that arranged for the band told the Poice Chief that he had spoken to the fire chief and the town mayor ( and had not) before getting the ok to even have the band play (which had never been done before). also the police did NOT come riding up in the car to the sight of the band behind the bingo building. the band was allowed to play until midnight on fri, more than one set, and did not play on sat at all. the band was very polite and courteous when asked to shut down, since it was in somewhat of a residential area (maybe you don't care about the local residents, but I do). The sheriffs dept had nothing to do with telling the band to shut down, I did, the local police. .
ANy clue why the band on Saturday night IN A RESIDENTIAL area right next to the rock school had a band playing louder the band at eh Gazebo till 2 am??????
That sucked, as I was exhausted, decided to sleep on saturday, returned to the house AWOL was renting by 11:30 only to have to hear SCREAMING music till 2 am....they didnt get shut down at all. Why???
Oh, and heres an Idea for the 'local' traffic.
Have a bright ORANGE wrist band and charge them $15 (Or 5-10 more then hikers) to walk in.
Check their IDs, if it isnt obvious they are local or semi local and not at all hikers, this will deter them and also give a heads up to hikers who is not a hiker at all.
sure I know there are cool people who dont hike who just enjoy it, but this may help overall.
Also, I want to point out it was nice that the police presence was smaller and less invasive then in previous years.
Lone Wolf
05-19-2010, 11:38
Also, I want to point out it was nice that the police presence was smaller and less invasive then in previous years.
define invasive. if you have something to hide like open containers weed or moonshine then you might think their presence is invasive
Lion King
05-19-2010, 11:49
define invasive. if you have something to hide like open containers weed or moonshine then you might think their presence is invasive
Exactly.:D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-19-2010, 12:15
I live near the GSMNP - we have many, many festivals in this area and I attend several. The LEOs here and the LEOs in Damascus use somewhat the same approach -- exercise a bit of leniency unless the behavior is causing a problem or dangerous. I've seen LEOs fail to note pot smoking, suspicious containers and brief nudity (campers changing clothes) at festivals here and in Damascus.... they aren't out to stop people from having a good time, but to stop situations from getting outta control to disturb others and / or dangerous.
While I know many in the 18 to 21 crowd don't like the enforcement of underage drinking laws, Damascus has already experienced a near-fatality with this. They have ample reason to ban it as a dangerous behavior - especially when a substance as potent as moonshine (illegal PGA) is involved. Kids with no little to no prior experience with this potent substance can very easily drink enough to do themselves in before the effects start.....
While I know it would likely not be PC for Damascus to say this out loud, I would hope that the no-booze camping would also be a no-drug zone among the campers. Some of us have been having a wonderful time without drugs or alcohol for decades and others never used those items as part of their fun.
Lion King
05-19-2010, 12:18
I thought Moonshine is why Dinos went extinct??? :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-19-2010, 12:22
I thought Moonshine is why Dinos went extinct??? :DNo, but the lead in it might have something to do with the brain damage many believe we Dinos might have.....
mister krabs
05-19-2010, 12:27
As much of a hassle it would be for LEOs, the only way to curb illegal activity is to arrest all offenders.
Ever been to Mardi Gras? The NOPD LEOs do an exceptional job dealing with the hundreds of thousands of people at the world's biggest party for most of a full month. They do not do it by arresting all offenders. They do it through threat analysis.
Sheesh. CT Trail Days is nothing like this... :)
JokerJersey
05-19-2010, 12:46
I dunno what all the fuss is about. I had a great time, both partying at the camping area and walking around town. Did some of the events during the day, got advice for my upcoming thru from MRO and Damascus Outfitters, and went back to party at night.
Were there cops there? Hell yeah. Did they hassle people who weren't acting like total idiots? Not at all.
I'm of legal age with ID, was discrete with my other activities, and didn't start any trouble. In other words, I had a number of good conversations with the local law enforcement and didn't get hassled ONCE. They seemed like great guys. Kermit looked a little worn out when I saw him Monday at Dairy King, but that was to be expected. Frankly, I think they did a great job. The people that acted dumb got busted. The ones who kept their cool and acted like decent human beings got left alone....all seems in order.
Can't wait to hike in next year and do it all over again.
define invasive. if you have something to hide like open containers weed or moonshine then you might think their presence is invasive
well ya know.....if you parade around the campground with illegal substances, then you must be prepared to face the consequences of your actions
The Weasel
05-19-2010, 13:21
Have "guest" wristbands for 2-3 per camper based on sponsorship and camper name. This prevents walk-ins but allows visitors who are wanted.
TW
Hey, I've got a novel idea......
Obey the laws and you don't have to worry about going to jail!!!
:eek::eek::-?:-?
Does that include untaxed liquor? ;)
Sheesh. CT Trail Days is nothing like this... :)
Yeah. Just a lot of baking, and... stuff. :-? :confused:
Ever been to Mardi Gras? The NOPD LEOs do an exceptional job dealing with the hundreds of thousands of people at the world's biggest party for most of a full month. They do not do it by arresting all offenders. They do it through threat analysis.
And that is the choice of the NOPD. Damascus and Trail Days are on a completely different scale. At this point, the crowds at TD still remain manageable. Unless the LEO's choose to go the route you suggest, (which I feel would be the more reasonable route), arresting all who break the law is the most viable solution.
IsNotAHome
05-19-2010, 15:35
It never ceases to amaze me the people who break the law and then get caught who say "but I was just..." fill in the blanks.
Newsflash....public intoxication and possession of weed is illegal there.As in against the law.Hello....you don't want get arrested,don't break the law.It really is that simple.:D
Have you ever heard of Rosa Parks or any of the many other people who have resisted unjust laws to give you the freedom you enjoy?
Please do us a favor, purchase and read this book :http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556, and then proptly report to you local PD, drop you pants and then bend over.
Does that include untaxed liquor? ;)
hahaha! i was just thinking the exact same thing.
ChinMusic
05-19-2010, 18:10
.... arresting all who break the law is the most viable solution.
All?
Good luck with that.
Yeah. Just a lot of baking, and... stuff. :-? :confused:
no baking, ceptin' cooking foil meals over the campfire after a day of white water rafting, volleyball, and hanging with friends :banana
Morpheus
05-19-2010, 21:11
Jeez lighten up. You are all absolutely correct. I am the Smoke monster and I should be banned from the purity of citizens of Damascus. Yes, I was publicly intoxicated and used an illegal herb and I really should be publicly stoned (to death). ;)
Sorry I mistook a Fire Department vehicle for a LEO vehicle. I wasn't in a condition to walk up to the vehicle for closer inspection.
I might come back just just to annoy those of you whom can't accept any view other than your own. I'll be smoking a giant bong surrounded by my Taliban security posse. We'll be in the new "Alah Akbar" section of tent city :eek:
Somehow larger venues, on PRIVATE property, with security, manage to survive drug and alcohol consumption without arresting people strictly for possession for it. Example: Bonaroo. If California legallizes ALL pot in November...wow! End of the world. Right? Not.
Bad behavior is one thing, consumption is another. (Remember Prohibition?) The whole open cup vs. a beer can or Nalgene full of hooch is a joke. LEO know what's inside the cup.
In all honesty: I will be back when I finish the AT. But my name won't be Morpheus. :D
Chaco Taco
05-19-2010, 21:31
free camping + non-hikers = no control. this "festival" like many others, has turned into a major party. next year will be different. one entrance/exit and campers will be charged a fee and have wrist bands.
the local and county LEOs did a damn good job controlling what little they could
I gotta agree with you on this one, dont fall over in shock. We didnt go this year because of the free for all, we knew it spelled trouble and apparently it did with the raping of a non hiker female.
There needs to be order at these functions. I have the utmost respect for the LEO's that have to put up with the BS that comes along with this festival
ChinMusic
05-19-2010, 21:40
The whole open cup vs. a beer can or Nalgene full of hooch is a joke. LEO know what's inside the cup.
I thought that was silly at first too, until I pondered it a bit. I came to appreciate the "rule".
It is an unwritten rule that creates a level of balance between the written rule and what is going to be allowed. LEO is not saying they are going to ignore the law, but rather saying please give me reason to look the other way.
If one cannot/refuses to follow this simple rule, they deserve further scrutiny. I one DOES follow the rule it shows an effort to behave.
I like it.
Morpheus
05-19-2010, 21:45
I used a cup all weekend, but I would have rather used a can cozy!
ChinMusic
05-19-2010, 21:52
I used a cup all weekend, but I would have rather used a can cozy!
I never used anything other than an original container all weekend.....no problems.
I guess Diet Coke was OK.......:p
Chaco Taco
05-19-2010, 21:55
Have you ever heard of Rosa Parks or any of the many other people who have resisted unjust laws to give you the freedom you enjoy?
Please do us a favor, purchase and read this book :http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556, and then proptly report to you local PD, drop you pants and then bend over.
Wow dude, there is a difference between laws that discriminate people of color and recreational drug use. Jump on a soap box somewhere else. Its still illegal whether you like it or not
TrailSquirrel
05-19-2010, 22:17
I wasn't in a condition to walk up to the vehicle for closer inspection.
You were to wasted to see straight, but you could see that the cops weren't doing a good job?
warraghiyagey
05-19-2010, 22:39
Squirrel has two 'r's . . . . just sayin . . .
Squirrel has two 'r's . . . . just sayin . . .
:)
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.
Morpheus
05-19-2010, 23:03
No TrailSquirel(l) I wasn't to(o) wasted, but I was intoxicated enough for arrest considering I have labrynthitis and can't pass a sobriety test sober if it's at night. I saw no reason to inspect a vehicle that had it's lights on my back 30 feet away. Let it go.
TrailSquirrel
05-20-2010, 00:12
Squirrel has two 'r's . . . . just sayin . . .
Not in Old Latin....or maybe I was too wasted to see straight when I signed up :)
You think it's easy to type with little squirrel paws?
TrailSquirrel
05-20-2010, 00:15
to(o) .
Actually I did see that typo, but it was too late. Paws ...rodent excuse...back to the ignorant tree!
TrailSquirrel
05-20-2010, 00:40
:)
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.
Ewe never get a secund chance to make a furst impresion
hahaha! i was just thinking the exact same thing.
me too:-?:eek:
Wow dude, there is a difference between laws that discriminate people of color and recreational drug use. Jump on a soap box somewhere else. Its still illegal whether you like it or not
yep..................
Jeez lighten up. You are all absolutely correct. I am the Smoke monster and I should be banned from the purity of citizens of Damascus. Yes, I was publicly intoxicated and used an illegal herb and I really should be publicly stoned (to death). ;)
Sorry I mistook a Fire Department vehicle for a LEO vehicle. I wasn't in a condition to walk up to the vehicle for closer inspection.
I might come back just just to annoy those of you whom can't accept any view other than your own. I'll be smoking a giant bong surrounded by my Taliban security posse. We'll be in the new "Alah Akbar" section of tent city :eek:
Somehow larger venues, on PRIVATE property, with security, manage to survive drug and alcohol consumption without arresting people strictly for possession for it. Example: Bonaroo. If California legallizes ALL pot in November...wow! End of the world. Right? Not.
Bad behavior is one thing, consumption is another. (Remember Prohibition?) The whole open cup vs. a beer can or Nalgene full of hooch is a joke. LEO know what's inside the cup.
In all honesty: I will be back when I finish the AT. But my name won't be Morpheus. :D
really...................
Jeez lighten up. You are all absolutely correct. I am the Smoke monster and I should be banned from the purity of citizens of Damascus. Yes, I was publicly intoxicated and used an illegal herb and I really should be publicly stoned (to death). ;)
Sorry I mistook a Fire Department vehicle for a LEO vehicle. I wasn't in a condition to walk up to the vehicle for closer inspection.
I might come back just just to annoy those of you whom can't accept any view other than your own. I'll be smoking a giant bong surrounded by my Taliban security posse. We'll be in the new "Alah Akbar" section of tent city :eek:
Somehow larger venues, on PRIVATE property, with security, manage to survive drug and alcohol consumption without arresting people strictly for possession for it. Example: Bonaroo. If California legallizes ALL pot in November...wow! End of the world. Right? Not.
Bad behavior is one thing, consumption is another. (Remember Prohibition?) The whole open cup vs. a beer can or Nalgene full of hooch is a joke. LEO know what's inside the cup.
In all honesty: I will be back when I finish the AT. But my name won't be Morpheus. :D
haha, welcome to whiteblaze :welcome
I hope I live to see the day when THC is legal, controlled, and the public wakes up to how much worse alcohol is in comparison.
.
Sorry if I rubbed anybody the wrong way. Hike on.I think drugs ought to be totally legalized and the money that is used to fight the war on drugs should be set up to fight a war on addiction.........
Gray Blazer
05-20-2010, 07:32
I think drugs ought to be totally legalized and the money that is used to fight the war on drugs should be set up to fight a war on addiction.........
PoPos would never allow that. They make too much money off siezing drug money and dealer's property.
ShakeyLeggs
05-20-2010, 07:50
Guys I'm gonna chime in here. This is not the place for a debate about legalizing drugs. I personally feel the war on drugs has been an utter failure but this is not the venue for that debate.
Ever been to Mardi Gras? The NOPD LEOs do an exceptional job dealing with the hundreds of thousands of people at the world's biggest party for most of a full month. They do not do it by arresting all offenders. They do it through threat analysis.
you're referencing the most corrupt police force on the planet. apples and oranges.
warraghiyagey
05-20-2010, 08:09
Guys I'm gonna chime in here. This is not the place for a debate about legalizing drugs. I personally feel the war on drugs has been an utter failure but this is not the venue for that debate.
Sooooo, you give your opinion while stating that this is not the place for said opinion. . . . hmmmmm . . . . :-? . . . . . :p
Chaco Taco
05-20-2010, 08:13
Sooooo, you give your opinion while stating that this is not the place for said opinion. . . . hmmmmm . . . . :-? . . . . . :p
You got to it before I did......I said the exact same thing when i read that. :sun:sun
warraghiyagey
05-20-2010, 08:15
You got to it before I did......I said the exact same thing when i read that. :sun:sun
It was too easy. . . . :p
fact is, when you're at Trail Days, you are in the house of the city of Damascus, and when you're in someone elses house, you gotta follow their rules. when you get new carpet in your house, everyone has to take their shoes off. someone tracks mud all over it, and a problem is caused. it doesn't matter what the rules for Trail Days are, they could be anything under the sun, but everyone must follow the rules that are set by the head of the house of Damascus, like it or not.
police came in my camp late saturday night. there were 3 jars out in the open and in use at that time. never saw them coming so, there was no time to put things away. they never said a word about it. there was a nice conversation and they left. no problem, and exactly what i would expect from the TD police presence after attending 9 Trail Days. i have never had any issue with them at all, and those who i have seen that have, deserved it completely. it is my personal experience that a person has to really make a spectacle of themselves, usually repetitively to get the ride in the crown vic to abingdon.
and further more, the couple of folks that i do know personally,that have been hauled in, were released the next day, with no charges of fine, just a long walk back from abingdon on the creeper.
Thanks Damascus. Saw lots of old friends. Drank more than a few beers with them. Ate breakfast at Cowboy's and burgers at Quincy's. Visited with the Only Wanderer a bit. Hugged Miss Janet. Got my New "Yawker" fix from EZ and Lightning Boltz. Got my cholesterol checked for free by the Sweet Home Alabama gang. Bought a few more useless items from vendors. Got soaked in the parade.
Not the least bit surprised by Morpheus. It's the same tedious old annual WB they're picking on "us" again thread. Well, there is no "us" buddy. There was a Morpheus last year and there'll be a Morpheus next year.
I saw one kid get busted. Probably because he didn't know when to shut up. Hey Kid, did it ever occur to you underage drinking, probably drunk and definitely disorderly right behind the Baptist Church Tent where good people were busting their butts for others might aggravate more than a few? I mean they were in the middle of serving a huge free dinner to about 300 hikers... and they're Baptists........ "Here's your sign!!!"
Damascus is the friendliest town on the trail. Trail Days absolutely proves it.
Hike in Harmony, everywhere, all the time.
BTW. Note to self and next year's Morpheus. If you can't find a friend in the Friendliest Town on the Trail, then you're doing something very very wrong. Try catch phrases like, "good morning", "thank you", "how are you", "please", "hope to see you again", "Thanks for having us over." Smiles work really really well. Look up the definitions of Friend, Friendly, Friendliness and they're uses and meanings. If still not working, get a dog.
ShakeyLeggs
05-20-2010, 08:43
Sooooo, you give your opinion while stating that this is not the place for said opinion. . . . hmmmmm . . . . :-? . . . . . :p
You got to it before I did......I said the exact same thing when i read that. :sun:sun
It was too easy. . . . :p
Man touchy aren't we. Me thinks you giys need to get out and hike more.
Gray Blazer
05-20-2010, 08:46
and further more, the couple of folks that i do know personally,that have been hauled in, were released the next day, with no charges of fine, just a long walk back from abingdon on the creeper.
That's pretty darn cool if you ask me.
Though I have never been to Trail Days I will make this comment.
I do not enjoy loud, rowdy, drunk fests. As such, if I ever do attend Trail Days, I would most likely avoid the campground all together. Unfortunately, camping is my preferred accommodation, especially when attending a hiking function.
A suggestion for the future: I understand that Trail Days is a lot of work, and that new camping arrangements are being made. If possible, I would suggest that two camping areas be considered, in separate areas. One for the rowdy, party crowd, with whatever law enforcement the local community deems appropriate, and the other a "quiet" campground with the stated understanding that generally accepted trail rules apply - reasonable quiet hours and common courtesy. If this were the arrangement, and it were respected, I would be more likely to consider attending.
Just a thought.
Gray Blazer
05-20-2010, 08:55
and the other a "quiet" campground with the stated understanding that generally accepted trail rules apply - reasonable quiet hours and common courtesy. If this were the arrangement, and it were respected, I would be more likely to consider attending.
Just a thought.
Don't they have a nursing home in Damascus?
Don't they have a nursing home in Damascus?
If this is the prevailing attitude, I'll just stay away.
Thought hikers were better than that. They used to be.
Gray Blazer
05-20-2010, 09:11
If this is the prevailing attitude, I'll just stay away.
Thought hikers were better than that. They used to be.
I was just kidding. I have no opinion about TDs as I've never been to one before.
Lone Wolf
05-20-2010, 09:23
Though I have never been to Trail Days I will make this comment.
I do not enjoy loud, rowdy, drunk fests. As such, if I ever do attend Trail Days, I would most likely avoid the campground all together. Unfortunately, camping is my preferred accommodation, especially when attending a hiking function.
A suggestion for the future: I understand that Trail Days is a lot of work, and that new camping arrangements are being made. If possible, I would suggest that two camping areas be considered, in separate areas. One for the rowdy, party crowd, with whatever law enforcement the local community deems appropriate, and the other a "quiet" campground with the stated understanding that generally accepted trail rules apply - reasonable quiet hours and common courtesy. If this were the arrangement, and it were respected, I would be more likely to consider attending.
Just a thought.
i will push heavy for this at the meetings for next year's TD
i will push heavy for this at the meetings for next year's TD
i think they attempted to have a quiet zone this year, over on the other side of the vendors and manufacturers.....but dont know how it turned out:-?
Follow up. I think maybe I wasn't clear enough about the kid that got busted. My intent was to say that I saw one and only one incident during my 4 days at Trail Days with several thousand people attending. I've been to a few drunkfests and thrown a yard drunk or two myself back in younger years. Trail Days ain't even close.
Well, nice thought, but I expect it would work out about as well as a "NO Smoking" area in a small restaurant, just not very effective.
Kudos for recognizing the problem though.
i will push heavy for this at the meetings for next year's TD
if there is a calmer campground where there is no drinking allowed, i think that some jerks will use the lack of law enforcement in that area to their advantage and camp in that place and drink and get rowdy anyway. there would have to be a no tolerance policy in that area to remove those people immediately to make it work. i think that a no drinking camp is a great idea. i would definately stay there if young son came with me.
ChinMusic
05-20-2010, 09:46
I am a non-drinker who likes the quiet.
I survived the noise and mayhem.
Bring ear plugs.....problem solved.
There is no need to separate into groups.
Lone Wolf
05-20-2010, 09:51
if there is a calmer campground where there is no drinking allowed, i think that some jerks will use the lack of law enforcement in that area to their advantage and camp in that place and drink and get rowdy anyway. there would have to be a no tolerance policy in that area to remove those people immediately to make it work. i think that a no drinking camp is a great idea. i would definately stay there if young son came with me.
i would personally monitor the area for "jerks" to make sure they stay out
Lone Wolf
05-20-2010, 09:52
I am a non-drinker who likes the quiet.
I survived the noise and mayhem.
Bring ear plugs.....problem solved.
There is no need to separate into groups.
it ain't that simple
Bulldawg
05-20-2010, 09:58
Though I have never been to Trail Days I will make this comment.
I do not enjoy loud, rowdy, drunk fests. As such, if I ever do attend Trail Days, I would most likely avoid the campground all together. Unfortunately, camping is my preferred accommodation, especially when attending a hiking function.
A suggestion for the future: I understand that Trail Days is a lot of work, and that new camping arrangements are being made. If possible, I would suggest that two camping areas be considered, in separate areas. One for the rowdy, party crowd, with whatever law enforcement the local community deems appropriate, and the other a "quiet" campground with the stated understanding that generally accepted trail rules apply - reasonable quiet hours and common courtesy. If this were the arrangement, and it were respected, I would be more likely to consider attending.
Just a thought.
There are several, very nice campgrounds within half an hour of downtown, if you need amenities such as hot showers, etc. If you don't need any of that, head out towards Mount Rogers and pick the first good site you see. There are plenty of options for those who wish to avoid the hoopla or have small children with them.
QuebecRun
05-20-2010, 10:00
i think they attempted to have a quiet zone this year, over on the other side of the vendors and manufacturers.....but dont know how it turned out:-?
This is where I camped. Did it work, yes and no. If you brought ear plugs like I did it worked fine. :) The area got crowded and some of the younger hikers didn't realize that some were trying to keep it a quiet zone. Eventually it was just as noisy as anywhere else. But heck it's Trail Days. We all survived.
Now if there is a more organized, "safe zone" camping area marked out by the organizing committee, completely apart from the party zone camping area, then I think it would work. I had a great time camping this year with everyone, but if there is quieter camping with a no alcohol policy that's where I'll be in the future.
This was our first time at TD. We had a great time.
Parked not far from the vendor area, Met many new people, and old friends.
We walked through the campground area, during the daytime it was quiet.
The LEO activity was great to see. Things can get out of hand fast without some supervision.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions, if you know what you are doing will offend others, or is illegal, expect to pay the consequences.
Many Thanks to the town of Damascus, and all of the volunteers for their efforts and tolerance during Trail Days.
The one problem I see, from the town's point of view: Would establishment of a "quiet" campground, and a "party" campground imply or establish condoning the activities in the rowdy area?
This may open the town to legal liabilities that are now in a very "gray" area. Something they would need to consider, I guess.
Lone Wolf
05-20-2010, 10:06
Now if there is a more organized, "safe zone" camping area marked out by the organizing committee, completely apart from the party zone camping area, then I think it would work. I had a great time camping this year with everyone, but if there is quieter camping with a no alcohol policy that's where I'll be in the future.
that's what i'm shooting for at the meetings
Chaco Taco
05-20-2010, 10:35
Man touchy aren't we. Me thinks you giys need to get out and hike more.
Well did you read the post? Dont worry I get out more than the average bear.
ChinMusic
05-20-2010, 10:43
it ain't that simple
I was there. I was pretty much in the middle of it at the Trail Talk site.
Once I put in ear plugs the noise went away.
Why is it not that simple?
Lone Wolf
05-20-2010, 11:05
I was there. I was pretty much in the middle of it at the Trail Days site.
Once I put in ear plugs the noise went away.
Why is it not that simple?
that works for YOU not everybody
ChinMusic
05-20-2010, 11:38
that works for YOU not everybody
I guess.
I just wouldn't want to be off in some sanitized area "protected" from the "riff raff". People-watching is just too good to be missed.
Man touchy aren't we. Me thinks you giys need to get out and hike more.
they do, you do, we all do - i'm knocking off a quick 24 in nj this weekend :sun
How about a third area? - quiet with quiet, responsible drinking. :)
D'Artagnan
05-20-2010, 13:22
This was my fifth consecutive Trail Days. For the past three years at TD I have been renting a room in a B&B just to avoid the drunks. I enjoy drinking, too, so don't get me wrong. It's just that I know what my limits are and I have never seen the joy of drinking past the point where I know who and where I am. I would love to be able to camp in an area with folks who don't have to get totally *****-faced just to have a good time. I think Wolf's on the right track.
It's really sad to hear of someone being assaulted. It brings some measure of comfort to know her alleged assailant is in custody. I hope she recovers.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-20-2010, 13:59
i had these ideas long before discussions with you or anyone else
I should have known:) Anyway get to the meetings and get 'your ideas' adopted, anything is better than nothing. Tell Gypsy we missed her and thanks for everything.
BAG "o" TRICKS
05-20-2010, 14:03
since the author of this thread has stated he won't be back, who cares what he thinks?
We're not wooried about him, just the next trail days, and making it bettter, so that others in the future will not feel as he does.
modiyooch
05-20-2010, 14:57
Though I have never been to Trail Days I will make this comment.
I do not enjoy loud, rowdy, drunk fests. As such, if I ever do attend Trail Days, I would most likely avoid the campground all together. Unfortunately, camping is my preferred accommodation, especially when attending a hiking function.
.Not sure of the exact distance from Damascus, but if I were to stay overnight for the festivities, I probably would camp at Grayson State Park. That's just me, though. I've never been into the social scene with camping, and I definately like to be able to sleep undisturbed.
i would personally monitor the area for "jerks" to make sure they stay out
damn, i couldn't stay there. you know how i am.
IsNotAHome
05-20-2010, 18:15
Wow dude, there is a difference between laws that discriminate people of color and recreational drug use. Jump on a soap box somewhere else. Its still illegal whether you like it or not
Yeah, care to explain?
Blissful
05-20-2010, 19:23
There are several, very nice campgrounds within half an hour of downtown, if you need amenities such as hot showers, etc. If you don't need any of that, head out towards Mount Rogers and pick the first good site you see. There are plenty of options for those who wish to avoid the hoopla or have small children with them.
I stayed at a nat'l forest campgound and drove in each day. Worked out good for me, though I did pick one a bit too far away. Know better for next time. But boy when I came in at night the place was utterly quiet. Even from the motorcycle gang camped down from me.
Blissful
05-20-2010, 19:28
Yeah, care to explain?
Sure.
Don't feed the trolls.
Like your post
Back to topic
:sun
their are also plenty of places along 58 that you can camp....i have never had a problem with this option
ChinMusic
05-20-2010, 19:54
their are also plenty of places along 58 that you can camp....i have never had a problem with this option
Rent a bike and camp at the MANY sites along the Creeper Trail is an option too.
that works for YOU not everybody
Question for L Wolf and others living in the area:
How have reports of the alleged sexual assault and subsequent arrest been received around town?
Are they linking this horrible report to the festival, security at tent city or the hiking community in any way?
Do the town's people and organizers think the reported crime will have an impact beyond to those directly involved?
Rent a bike and camp at the MANY sites along the Creeper Trail is an option too.
i know, i always plan on bringing my bike, but always forget, definetely going to bring it next year
Johnny Thunder
05-20-2010, 20:12
Don't forget the dozen-odd camp sites within 5 miles South along Shady ave. There are "civilized" campsites adjacent to the "tunnel" and basic sites out for the next 10 miles.
Don't forget the dozen-odd camp sites within 5 miles South along Shady ave. There are "civilized" campsites adjacent to the "tunnel" and basic sites out for the next 10 miles.
yep....they fill up rather quickly
d'shadow
05-21-2010, 07:04
Though I have never been to Trail Days I will make this comment.
I do not enjoy loud, rowdy, drunk fests. As such, if I ever do attend Trail Days, I would most likely avoid the campground all together. Unfortunately, camping is my preferred accommodation, especially when attending a hiking function.
A suggestion for the future: I understand that Trail Days is a lot of work, and that new camping arrangements are being made. If possible, I would suggest that two camping areas be considered, in separate areas. One for the rowdy, party crowd, with whatever law enforcement the local community deems appropriate, and the other a "quiet" campground with the stated understanding that generally accepted trail rules apply - reasonable quiet hours and common courtesy. If this were the arrangement, and it were respected, I would be more likely to consider attending.
Just a thought.
We camped away from the main area and fire circle. Tent city was quiet where we were. People hanging out in small groups around a fire. Not everyone there was into being drunk and out of control. Most of us go to see old friends and hang out. Our area was very quiet after 1 a.m. and we all slept well. Come on over one year and hang out with us...you'll have a good time. Meet up with old friends and make a few new ones. Thanks to Damascus for hosting this event. And Lone Wolf, appreciate you trying to make Trail Days better by your involvment in planning next years events.
Chaco Taco
05-21-2010, 10:10
Rent a bike and camp at the MANY sites along the Creeper Trail is an option too.
If we were to go back, this is what we would do
Johnny Thunder
05-21-2010, 11:01
The creeper's played...go south on shady ave. that's where the good spots are.
Question for L Wolf and others living in the area:
How have reports of the alleged sexual assault and subsequent arrest been received around town?
Are they linking this horrible report to the festival, security at tent city or the hiking community in any way?
Do the town's people and organizers think the reported crime will have an impact beyond to those directly involved?
rickb, most people in town know about the incident, but we also know that the perpetrator was not a hiker (denim and hunting boots just don't cut it) and that a lot of drinking was involved. Although there is much sympathy for the victim, who is a woman from this area, there is also the knowledge that she went to the campground to party and was allegedly drunk. This excuses nothing, but reinforces our belief that entry into the campground by locals and non-hikers should be restricted. We also hope the perpetrator is put away for several decades, and that the victim recovers as completely as is possible for her.
The primary impact on the festival is that the campground next year will have heavy security and most likely a much less tolerant attitude toward local visitors. It is generally felt here that the "real" hiking community takes care of its own, and to a great extent is self-policing.
ChinMusic
05-21-2010, 11:09
The primary impact on the festival is that the campground next year will have heavy security and most likely a much less tolerant attitude toward local visitors. It is generally felt here that the "real" hiking community takes care of its own, and to a great extent is self-policing.
How are you going to differentiate hikers from non-hikers/locals?
Denim?
How are you going to differentiate hikers from non-hikers/locals?
Denim?
This is something I wonder as well. It seems very unfair to discriminate against locals. There are some locals who are hikers or past hikers or future hikers. I have met a lot of locals there who are not there to cause trouble but just hang out, have a good time and talk to hikers.
It seems people are saying that most locals cause problems because most problems are caused by locals, but this is a logical fallacy.
Johnny Thunder
05-21-2010, 11:59
Have you ever heard of Rosa Parks or any of the many other people who have resisted unjust laws to give you the freedom you enjoy?
.
"You know I love your, right?...and because I love you I can say this: 'No rich, young white guy has ever gotten anywhere with me comparing himself to Rosa Parks.'"
Hot dang I forgot how much I missed "Sports Night." Bless you, Sorkin.
This is something I wonder as well. It seems very unfair to discriminate against locals. There are some locals who are hikers or past hikers or future hikers. I have met a lot of locals there who are not there to cause trouble but just hang out, have a good time and talk to hikers.
It seems people are saying that most locals cause problems because most problems are caused by locals, but this is a logical fallacy.
Nah. We're just saying most problems seem to be caused by local folks. And yes, it's unfair to discriminate against locals, but we think the reinstatement of the fee for camping, and possibly raising the amount from $5 for the weekend to 10 or 15 dollars, will take care of much of the problem. We'll back this up with closer attention to those without wristbands, either having them pay the fee or leave. Also Lone Wolf and others have suggested that we ID everyone coming into the campground, and this will probably be done. If people are not comfortable with that, we'll send them to the counseling program at Quincey's.
ChinMusic
05-21-2010, 13:54
Also Lone Wolf and others have suggested that we ID everyone coming into the campground, and this will probably be done. If people are not comfortable with that, we'll send them to the counseling program at Quincey's.
We will have to "show our papers".....? :cool:
Johnny Thunder
05-21-2010, 14:00
We will have to "show our papers".....? :cool:
Doesn't seem unreasonable. You have to do it when you check into a hotel.
ChinMusic
05-21-2010, 14:07
Doesn't seem unreasonable. You have to do it when you check into a hotel.
FTR, I'm not opposed to it either.
I'll leave it at that........NO politics.;)
Jester2000
05-21-2010, 15:38
. . . I've known both, when I lived in Germany in the 60s. Those were "police" - I use the term loosely - who killed others without any legal basis, tortured others, and disregarded the most basic human rights, all while under the control of Heinrich Himmler, a man as evil as Adolf Hitler and even more directly responsible for criminal police behavior.
TW
Wow. And here I thought that the Gestapo went out of business after WWII. Which, for those of you not into history, ended in Europe on May 8th, 1945.
I think that Local and other Damascus residents did a wonderful job, particularly in light of the confusion that was inherent in the changed camping situation this year.
I believe the police did their usual good job of finding the balance point between enforcement and protecting and serving. And I'd like to note that they responded as quickly as possible to the sexual assault. They were professional and helpful, as usual.
It seems that every Trail Days there are a smattering of folks who claim they're never going back. I always hope that they follow through on that.
Johnny Thunder
05-21-2010, 15:44
yet another thread finds it's inevitable Nazi end...
Jester2000
05-21-2010, 15:46
Have you ever heard of Rosa Parks or any of the many other people who have resisted unjust laws to give you the freedom you enjoy?
Please do us a favor, purchase and read this book :http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556, and then proptly report to you local PD, drop you pants and then bend over.
Please do us a favor and recognize that people engaging in Civil Disobedience are trying to have their case tried in court, so as to overturn the law. Smoking weed and claiming that you are engaging in Civil Disobedience is bull**** if one is trying to get away with it without getting caught.
Nah. We're just saying most problems seem to be caused by local folks. And yes, it's unfair to discriminate against locals, but we think the reinstatement of the fee for camping, and possibly raising the amount from $5 for the weekend to 10 or 15 dollars, will take care of much of the problem. We'll back this up with closer attention to those without wristbands, either having them pay the fee or leave. Also Lone Wolf and others have suggested that we ID everyone coming into the campground, and this will probably be done. If people are not comfortable with that, we'll send them to the counseling program at Quincey's.
I am fine with reinstating the camping fee, and even raising it. Also checking IDs is fine, as long as you are just using that to identify who is of age and who is underage. However this should be a way of identifying locals versus non-locals, and I do not think people underage should be excluded from the campsite. The problem was someone suggested charging locals more, which seems ridiculous. Also you had said next year their will be a "much less tolerant attitude toward local visitors," which does not really seem like what you are trying to accomplish. It is fine instate rules to try to keep incidents down, but it is not in anyone’s best interest to single out locals for more scrutiny then non-locals.
Jim Adams
05-21-2010, 17:34
I gotta agree with you on this one, dont fall over in shock. We didnt go this year because of the free for all, we knew it spelled trouble and apparently it did with the raping of a non hiker female.
There needs to be order at these functions. I have the utmost respect for the LEO's that have to put up with the BS that comes along with this festival
Wish you had come to TD's. It was the best TD's that I have attended, way more laid back and calm than last year. Other than the few problems of violence from local partiers, it was GREAT!
geek
Jim Adams
05-21-2010, 17:52
PoPos would never allow that. They make too much money off siezing drug money and dealer's property.
I remember reading the same things about alcohol and prohibition. Legalization is coming. It costs more to fight it than what they seize.
I think drugs ought to be totally legalized and the money that is used to fight the war on drugs should be set up to fight a war on addiction.........
How about the war on poverty, starvation, lack of adequate healthcare or education...all problems in America.
fact is, when you're at Trail Days, you are in the house of the city of Damascus, and when you're in someone elses house, you gotta follow their rules. when you get new carpet in your house, everyone has to take their shoes off. someone tracks mud all over it, and a problem is caused. it doesn't matter what the rules for Trail Days are, they could be anything under the sun, but everyone must follow the rules that are set by the head of the house of Damascus, like it or not.
police came in my camp late saturday night. there were 3 jars out in the open and in use at that time. never saw them coming so, there was no time to put things away. they never said a word about it. there was a nice conversation and they left. no problem, and exactly what i would expect from the TD police presence after attending 9 Trail Days. i have never had any issue with them at all, and those who i have seen that have, deserved it completely. it is my personal experience that a person has to really make a spectacle of themselves, usually repetitively to get the ride in the crown vic to abingdon.
Probably the best statement here. I have had LEO's visit my camp every year, had great conversations and they never had a problem with me. I may be an alcoholic but not that much of a fool.:D
geek
Maybe I shouldn't give away my secret...but there is plenty of camping back where you can get a good night's sleep at Trail Days. I've been doing it for several years. Walk through the main entrance of Tent City. You'll see the Billville setup, and Riffraff's, and lots of other tents. Keep going. You'll see campfires. Keep going. There's stream. Cross it and keep going. Find a spot along the bank where there aren't any other tents or hammocks. Set up your camp. When your bedtime rolls around, get in your tent or hammock and let the sounds of the creek lull you to sleep.
BTW, you'll be able to drink right out of the can or bottle because when you're off the beaten path, there's no one there to notice...
Maybe I shouldn't give away my secret...but there is plenty of camping back where you can get a good night's sleep at Trail Days. I've been doing it for several years. Walk through the main entrance of Tent City. You'll see the Billville setup, and Riffraff's, and lots of other tents. Keep going. You'll see campfires. Keep going. There's stream. Cross it and keep going. Find a spot along the bank where there aren't any other tents or hammocks. Set up your camp. When your bedtime rolls around, get in your tent or hammock and let the sounds of the creek lull you to sleep.
BTW, you'll be able to drink right out of the can or bottle because when you're off the beaten path, there's no one there to notice...
marta thats a great example of trail daze is what you make it, i like the party, and if a group gets to big, its not to hard to find a quieter area, or more chill group to hang out w/..... i didn't arrive to after dark, i heard the water, but didn't realize how close i was till morning, and i must say it did drown out alot of noise despite being camped near billville (thanks again roots and gungho;))
if you want the party go near the party if you don't then don't, there is enough space and a wide range of folks that you can find somewhere to fit in, weither its where the party is or if its sitting by a quiet campfire w/ friends you haven't seen in a while enjoying stories...
i really don't see what all the fuss is about...
the goat
05-21-2010, 20:06
Please do us a favor and recognize that people engaging in Civil Disobedience are trying to have their case tried in court, so as to overturn the law. Smoking weed and claiming that you are engaging in Civil Disobedience is bull**** if one is trying to get away with it without getting caught.
hahaha, great point!
...there is enough space and a wide range of folks that you can find somewhere to fit in, weither its where the party is or if its sitting by a quiet campfire w/ friends you haven't seen in a while enjoying stories...
i really don't see what all the fuss is about...
Exactly! It's a whole lot easier to adjust your own behavior to make yourself happy than to try to force everyone else to comply with your wishes... I'm just lazy that way.
BTW, I find camping in Tent City to be quieter and more relaxing than any commercial campground, or state park or NFS or NPS campground I've ever stayed in.
I do think having an entrance fee and wrist bands is a great idea, mostly so we who are using the facilities pay for those facilities. This year I was happy to pay the Damascus Little League for the use of their parking lot for the weekend.
One disturbing thing I saw... I went into the Rock School on Saturday afternoon to refill my water bottle. The woman who was cleaning the place asked me to help her by moving chairs while she swept under them. The two long tables against the wall had been broken, which had apparently happened Friday night. Not cool at all. I have no idea who did it or when, of course, but that's the kind of incident that will cause the auditorium to be kept locked up and not available for use.
Maybe I shouldn't give away my secret...but there is plenty of camping back where you can get a good night's sleep at Trail Days. I've been doing it for several years. Walk through the main entrance of Tent City. You'll see the Billville setup, and Riffraff's, and lots of other tents. Keep going. You'll see campfires. Keep going. There's stream. Cross it and keep going. Find a spot along the bank where there aren't any other tents or hammocks. Set up your camp. When your bedtime rolls around, get in your tent or hammock and let the sounds of the creek lull you to sleep.
BTW, you'll be able to drink right out of the can or bottle because when you're off the beaten path, there's no one there to notice...
Hush, Marta. Before long you'll be telling about the seven or more flat acres the town owns across Beaverdam Creek, away from everything, with campsites next to the rapids. Or you'll be telling about my private space up on the hillside, tucked away in a grove of mountain laurel, looking down on the campground. Hush.
.....(snips)........... Also you had said next year their will be a "much less tolerant attitude toward local visitors," which does not really seem like what you are trying to accomplish. It is fine instate rules to try to keep incidents down, but it is not in anyone’s best interest to single out locals for more scrutiny then non-locals.
TheTank, this attitude is mostly personal. Many of us who live here and who have roots here (five generations in my case) have a low tolerance for those who seem determined to sustain the stereotype of backward mountain people. So if we "single out locals" it's because in the past that is who has caused the most problems.
Blissful
05-21-2010, 21:44
One disturbing thing I saw... I went into the Rock School on Saturday afternoon to refill my water bottle. The woman who was cleaning the place asked me to help her by moving chairs while she swept under them. The two long tables against the wall had been broken, which had apparently happened Friday night. Not cool at all. I have no idea who did it or when, of course, but that's the kind of incident that will cause the auditorium to be kept locked up and not available for use.
It happened during the showing of the Trail Angels movie. A bunch of people were sitting on them and they broke. Made quite a noise. Someone should have reported it though.
Wish you had come to TD's. It was the best TD's that I have attended, way more laid back and calm than last year. Other than the few problems of violence from local partiers, it was GREAT!
geek
Glad to hear you had a good time Geek, and we did miss seeing you and all others of Camp Geek!! Hope you're doing well, and i'm sure we'll talk to you soon! :)
Ramble~On
05-21-2010, 22:54
Maybe I shouldn't give away my secret...but there is plenty of camping back where you can get a good night's sleep at Trail Days. I've been doing it for several years. Walk through the main entrance of Tent City. You'll see the Billville setup, and Riffraff's, and lots of other tents. Keep going. You'll see campfires. Keep going. There's stream. Cross it and keep going. Find a spot along the bank where there aren't any other tents or hammocks. Set up your camp. When your bedtime rolls around, get in your tent or hammock and let the sounds of the creek lull you to sleep.
BTW, you'll be able to drink right out of the can or bottle because when you're off the beaten path, there's no one there to notice...
:rolleyes: Kudos to Leprechaun for finding us just such a spot this year. We come from all over the country and view Trail Days as a reunion. We were in tent city, didn't bother anybody and no one bothered us. Thank You Damascus!
See you next year!
Jim Adams
05-21-2010, 23:29
Glad to hear you had a good time Geek, and we did miss seeing you and all others of Camp Geek!! Hope you're doing well, and i'm sure we'll talk to you soon! :)
Yes, I was hoping to see you two...sorry that I missed the wedding...couldn't get away that week.
You both were greatly missed at TD's.
geek
TrailSquirrel
05-22-2010, 00:05
Squirrel has two 'r's . . . . just sayin . . .
You need to get your eyes checked:cool:
Man touchy aren't we. Me thinks you giys need to get out and hike more.
they probably hiked more than you have lived on the internet.......:D
ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2010, 18:56
they probably hiked more than you have lived on the internet.......:D
I hike more than the vast majority on here. I average about 3k a year and have done so since 2005. Before that I averaged about 5k a year from 1979 to 2000. I then had an injury and attended college from 2001 till 2005 I was recuperating and learning. So what have you done lately?
How are you going to differentiate hikers from non-hikers/locals?
Denim?
I hike more than the vast majority on here. I average about 3k a year and have done so since 2005. Before that I averaged about 5k a year from 1979 to 2000. I then had an injury and attended college from 2001 till 2005 I was recuperating and learning. So what have you done lately?
I hike the entire width of the trail at least ten times a day, as of date I probably have hiked the width more than anyone here.........so there pal!
ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2010, 19:06
I hike the entire width of the trail at least ten times a day, as of date I probably have hiked the width more than anyone here.........so there pal!
LOL Well I conceed you got me beat hehe. :D
ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2010, 19:08
Dang gotta renew my membership. No edit. I just wanted to add thanks for all you do down there in Damascus. :clap
Dang gotta renew my membership. No edit. I just wanted to add thanks for all you do down there in Damascus. :clapI do not do much but thanx for the comp. I'll tell you who does a lot for the hiking community is Jeff and Linda Austin that oversee the hiking ministry. And Local and Wolf do great service as well.........
Won't be my last Trail Days as usual I had a delightful time. Good friends, good food,
good cold ones and good company all around. Some knuckleheads in this group however:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=40877&catid=newimages&cutoffdate=7
Though I have never been to Trail Days I will make this comment.
I do not enjoy loud, rowdy, drunk fests. As such, if I ever do attend Trail Days, I would most likely avoid the campground all together. Unfortunately, camping is my preferred accommodation, especially when attending a hiking function.
A suggestion for the future: I understand that Trail Days is a lot of work, and that new camping arrangements are being made. If possible, I would suggest that two camping areas be considered, in separate areas. One for the rowdy, party crowd, with whatever law enforcement the local community deems appropriate, and the other a "quiet" campground with the stated understanding that generally accepted trail rules apply - reasonable quiet hours and common courtesy. If this were the arrangement, and it were respected, I would be more likely to consider attending.
Just a thought.
If you like it quiet just pitch your tent at The Place...
Chaco Taco
05-23-2010, 19:33
Yes, I was hoping to see you two...sorry that I missed the wedding...couldn't get away that week.
You both were greatly missed at TD's.
geek
So maybe we should plan something special next year:cool:
Lone Wolf
05-23-2010, 20:46
entry into the campground by locals and non-hikers should be restricted.
i totally disagree. that's blatant discrimination. there are plenty of Ahole hikers that cause problems too. just charge everone who wants to camp $15, ask for ID and give everyone under 21 bright orange wrist bands, the rest another color. anybody caught inside without a band gets escorted out and no chance to buy a band. caught with alcohol underage, escorted out and dealt with by LEOs. quiet hours after midnight. most campgrounds across America have quiet hours
i totally disagree. that's blatant discrimination. there are plenty of Ahole hikers that cause problems too. just charge everone who wants to camp $15, ask for ID and give everyone under 21 bright orange wrist bands, the rest another color. anybody caught inside without a band gets escorted out and no chance to buy a band. caught with alcohol underage, escorted out and dealt with by LEOs. quiet hours after midnight. most campgrounds across America have quiet hours
Welcome to the Trail Days committee, Wolf, where you can have these discussions with the five or six other people on the committee, while keeping in mind that one of the elected officials might decide all of our ideas are not worth considering. This has happened several times. As far as discrimination against the locals, I will argue that we need to get a strong message to the increasing number of area folks who roll in to party with the hikers and everyone in the campground. I agree with your zero tolerance stance and will support that, but remember this will either be a committee decision or a decision made by a town council member.
Lone Wolf
05-23-2010, 21:52
my ideas are solid. if at the first meeting they're rejected, i'm out. there's nothing unreasonable about them. a campground is for camping and sleeping and a place where folks with kids should feel safe and expect a good night's sleep. it's very simple. since the county owns the campground now maybe the council and police have no say?
my ideas are solid. if at the first meeting they're rejected, i'm out. there's nothing unreasonable about them. a campground is for camping and sleeping and a place where folks with kids should feel safe and expect a good night's sleep. it's very simple. since the county owns the campground now maybe the council and police have no say?
The county owns the ballfields, and the town owns the campground. I'm going to push for a long-range plan by the town, not just for Trail Days, but to open that area to camping by scouts and other groups, and possibly by families. There are all sorts of possibilities for non-Trail Days stuff, including dog parks, walking trails, handicapped fishing areas, nature studies by school groups, lots of stuff.
As to walking out of the committee the first time your ideas are rejected, I would have been gone about twenty times, and seriously considered it many times, but with only about five or six volunteers in our town willing to actually do the work, I have stayed.
ChinMusic
05-23-2010, 23:13
my ideas are solid. if at the first meeting they're rejected, i'm out.
It's hard to work in groups when you're omnipotent.....
credit to Q
Lone Wolf
05-23-2010, 23:35
As to walking out of the committee the first time your ideas are rejected, I would have been gone about twenty times, and seriously considered it many times, but with only about five or six volunteers in our town willing to actually do the work, I have stayed.
what i propose is a no-brainer
i totally disagree. that's blatant discrimination. there are plenty of Ahole hikers that cause problems too. just charge everone who wants to camp $15, ask for ID and give everyone under 21 bright orange wrist bands, the rest another color. anybody caught inside without a band gets escorted out and no chance to buy a band. caught with alcohol underage, escorted out and dealt with by LEOs. quiet hours after midnight. most campgrounds across America have quiet hoursPersonally I do not think that they ought to let anyone in that is under age. Of course I know that is unrealistic but you would cut down on a lot of crap by enforcing this......
what i propose is a no-brainer
Too late to reword that ;).
I understand your point - I just couldn't resist :o.
what i propose is a no-brainer
Wolf, all the ideas I presented were obvious to anyone with intelligence. For example, I proposed these items:
1. Cover the windows at the Rock School so people can see the movies;
2. Get a volunteer technician to help set up the video and sound systems at the Rock School and the Laurel Building so the presenters don't have to worry about that;
3. Get a professional sound system so that people can hear the presentations or movies;
All of these were rejected. There were problems in all of these areas that my suggestions would have taken care of. I had a lot more ideas rejected, including many related to improvements in the campground. But being on a committee means going along with the group's decision, so I just keep low until the next round and will come back with the same ideas again.
It will be interesting next year when I propose a stealth-built rope bridge across Beaverdam Creek to open up the great camping on the other side. There is a volunteer bridge-building crew ready to go. Or maybe I won't mention this to the committee.
Lone Wolf
05-24-2010, 09:30
Wolf, all the ideas I presented were obvious to anyone with intelligence. For example, I proposed these items:
1. Cover the windows at the Rock School so people can see the movies;
2. Get a volunteer technician to help set up the video and sound systems at the Rock School and the Laurel Building so the presenters don't have to worry about that;
3. Get a professional sound system so that people can hear the presentations or movies;
All of these were rejected. There were problems in all of these areas that my suggestions would have taken care of. I had a lot more ideas rejected, including many related to improvements in the campground. But being on a committee means going along with the group's decision, so I just keep low until the next round and will come back with the same ideas again.
then what's the point of a committee if certain folks are gonna do what they want regardless of solid advice?
then what's the point of a committee if certain folks are gonna do what they want regardless of solid advice?
committees work (or not) on a sliding scale of functional to dysfunctional, and only rarely on the ends of said scale
trailangelmary
05-24-2010, 10:33
charge everone who wants to camp $15, ask for ID and give everyone under 21 bright orange wrist bands, the rest another color. anybody caught inside without a band gets escorted out and no chance to buy a band. caught with alcohol underage, escorted out
I agree with this with one exception. I know that during the 09 Trail Days when day/evening guests had to pay the same $15, they believed that was too much to just visit the vendors in the campground, or visit friends in a certain camp because they were camping elsewhere. (For instance, visiting the Billville camp for the Useless gear contest, and themed Saturday evening.) Although I understand that would be hard to manage, it would be nice to have a reduced rate for non-camping visitors.
gear reps need to be in town with the rest of the vendors.
Whitewater
05-24-2010, 11:10
This wuz my 3rd trail daz and it was real nice once again.You know all the drinkin' and what little pot that was smoked, I was there from Thur. to Sat. and I never seen it and only smelled it twice!! think that is real good. Thank's to the dog bone drum circle it was the bomb Thur night.The band fri night was also awsome!!! ,GREAT job to all that attended to organize the tent city ,it was very nice!! I HOPE that they just have it there in the wood's from now on it was so nice right there on the creek with plenty of water and shade !!!!!!!!! COO COO KA CHOOO
chiefduffy
05-24-2010, 11:12
gear reps need to be in town with the rest of the vendors.
I agree. THIS is a no-brainer. I never could understand why they are in the campground.
The Old Fhart
05-24-2010, 12:25
The reason they aren't with "the rest of the vendors" is they aren't vendors. The reps at the campground are not allowed to sell anything. They provide a free service to repair gear. The vendors and the reps were separated on purpose so there would be no confusion.
gear reps need to be in town with the rest of the vendors.
NO. Kanga we can not do that.
We are not Vending.
The issue is we work entirely FREE. Doing care and repair.
If we had to deal with the crowds/public, in the city park, it would require double the people.
We are there for the hikers, not the crowds.
Chris..The Leki guy
"Vendors" in the town park are charged a rather hefty fee, but most of them seem to find it worth paying. "Crafters" pay much less as long as the craft (painting, photo, jewelry, etc.) is made by that person. "Manufacturer's representatives" set up in the campground for free to provide a free service, and are not allowed to sell anything. People are very quick to tell us if one of the vendors tries to sell stuff. In the past we've suggested they move, but they seem universally opposed to moving away from the campers.
then what's the point of a committee if certain folks are gonna do what they want regardless of solid advice?
As I said earlier, welcome to the Trail Days committee. Just a few years ago two guys ran the show, and wouldn't let any volunteers participate. Now we have volunteers doing a lot of the work, and would like to keep it from going back to the days of one or two people deciding everything. At least on this committee we can make a strong argument for things we want done. And I keep pushing for stronger hiker representation on the committee. In fact, I would like to see the committee become all hikers, with maybe three or four town volunteers helping out.
.... People are very quick to tell us if one of the vendors tries to sell stuff. ....
Crap: I meant "People are very quick to tell us if one of the manufacturer's representatives tries to sell stuff." OK, back to my building project. If any carpenters are in town, please drop by.
trailangelmary
05-24-2010, 13:01
NO. Kanga we can not do that.
We are not Vending.
The issue is we work entirely FREE. Doing care and repair.
If we had to deal with the crowds/public, in the city park, it would require double the people.
We are there for the hikers, not the crowds.
Chris..The Leki guy
I apologize for using the wrong term in my post. I should have said Care and Repair Reps in the Campground.
D'Artagnan
05-24-2010, 13:41
As I said earlier, welcome to the Trail Days committee. Just a few years ago two guys ran the show, and wouldn't let any volunteers participate. Now we have volunteers doing a lot of the work, and would like to keep it from going back to the days of one or two people deciding everything. At least on this committee we can make a strong argument for things we want done. And I keep pushing for stronger hiker representation on the committee. In fact, I would like to see the committee become all hikers, with maybe three or four town volunteers helping out.
Just remember the old adage: It's easier to seek forgiveness than permission.:D
Tenderheart
05-24-2010, 13:51
How did the 2000 reunion work out at Trail Days this year? I wasn't able to make it, and was just wondering if it came off as planned.
litefoot 2000
trailangelmary
05-24-2010, 13:54
How did the 2000 reunion work out at Trail Days this year? I wasn't able to make it, and was just wondering if it came off as planned.
litefoot 2000
Go to this thread to see the class of 2000 pic at Trai Days: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61445
Tenderheart
05-24-2010, 14:18
Boy, great picture. The only one I recognize is de Krewzer. He looks older than I remember him. I'm sure glad I haven't aged.
litefoot 2000
The Weasel
05-24-2010, 15:19
It's hard to work in groups when you're omnipotent.....
credit to Q
Yeah, democracy sucks when you're not in the majority every time. That's why I hope my application for Emperor of the Universe gets accepted.
My hope is that Lone Wolf - and others - joins the committee and everyone shares a variety of ideas. Some will be adopted, some will be considered as good but not yet feasible for any number of reasons, and some will be bad ideas and either rejected (I hope) or adopted (which happens). And there will be a need for some compromises. Those are good things. Trail Days is too important for people to ignore good ideas of others, and too important for any one person to get her or his way regardless of the merit of the ideas in others' eyes.
TW
max patch
05-24-2010, 16:08
Too important?????
Boy, great picture. The only one I recognize is de Krewzer. He looks older than I remember him. I'm sure glad I haven't aged.
litefoot 2000
I don't care who you are, that's just funny. HA! :D
IsNotAHome
05-24-2010, 17:42
...well I guess I win! :)
Lobsterbush
05-24-2010, 18:56
OK, back to my building project. If any carpenters are in town, please drop by.
Remember me? I'd love to help with any project you are organizing. You know I am a hard worker, and I am very skilled with my hands. If you are serious about this project contact me and I'll show up toolbelt on and ready to go.
Boy, great picture. The only one I recognize is de Krewzer. He looks older than I remember him. I'm sure glad I haven't aged.
litefoot 2000
There is a hiker(?) in the photo who said "I don't recognize anyone here" to which I answered " Don't worry! Nobody recognizes you either". Another hiker responded
"You hadda be at least a little friendly on the trail for people to remember you".
BTW good observation, we are all 10 years older and it shows.
EZ from NY
Lone Wolf
05-24-2010, 20:00
There is a hiker(?) in the photo who said "I don't recognize anyone here" to which I answered " Don't worry! Nobody recognizes you either". Another hiker responded
"You hadda be at least a little friendly on the trail for people to remember you".
BTW good observation, we are all 10 years older and it shows.
EZ from NY
'ceptin for me. i opted out of the photo cuz i wasn't welcome :D