View Full Version : homeless on the trail?
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 07:56
I'm not sure if this is more a heads-up to people hiking the trail or just me looking for opinions... but I was hiking the AT in the Duncannon area this weekend and at the Clarks Ferry Shelter about four miles north of Duncannon, there was a man living at the shelter who was calling himself a thruhiker.
Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me explain... he said he was "waiting on a mail drop" and had been living at the shelter for eight days. He had no food, wore jeans and a t-shirt, was missing a bunch of teeth, his backpack (the kind you buy for your teen for school, not a hiking pack) was held together by duct tape, and he was very off. He made friends with a group of Boy Scouts also at the site and ate their food because he had none of his own. He often repeated what other people said (in a strange way, hard to describe) and claimed to have yoyo'ed the AT three times. He also told the scouts that he's hiked more than 40,000 miles on long distance trails. Said he's been doing 25 mile days every day. Well, except for the week that he lived at the shelter. :rolleyes:
I was creeped out by him and ended up tenting separately so I wouldn't have to share a shelter with him. I know it's ambiguous to say he was "off" but that's really the only way I can describe it...
So just a heads up to people hiking in that area. He said he was going to move on when he got his mail drop, but for some reason I don't think that mail drop is coming. It sounded like he planned to stay in the area (Clarks Ferry Shelter and Peters Mtn. Shelter).
Pedaling Fool
05-17-2010, 09:31
... he said he was "waiting on a mail drop" and had been living at the shelter for eight days. He had no food, wore jeans and a t-shirt, was missing a bunch of teeth, his backpack (the kind you buy for your teen for school, not a hiking pack) was held together by duct tape, and he was very off. He made friends with a group of Boy Scouts also at the site and ate their food because he had none of his own. He often repeated what other people said (in a strange way, hard to describe) and claimed to have yoyo'ed the AT three times. He also told the scouts that he's hiked more than 40,000 miles on long distance trails. Said he's been doing 25 mile days every day. Well, except for the week that he lived at the shelter.
I read a really good story about these imitators in the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/science/16crea.html
Darwin again
05-17-2010, 10:01
It's best to go with your intuition about odd folks.
Your gut is usually right and it's better to err on the side of safety in all cases.
I'm not sure if this is more a heads-up to people hiking the trail or just me looking for opinions... but I was hiking the AT in the Duncannon area this weekend and at the Clarks Ferry Shelter about four miles north of Duncannon, there was a man living at the shelter who was calling himself a thruhiker.
Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me explain... he said he was "waiting on a mail drop" and had been living at the shelter for eight days. He had no food, wore jeans and a t-shirt, was missing a bunch of teeth, his backpack (the kind you buy for your teen for school, not a hiking pack) was held together by duct tape, and he was very off. He made friends with a group of Boy Scouts also at the site and ate their food because he had none of his own. He often repeated what other people said (in a strange way, hard to describe) and claimed to have yoyo'ed the AT three times. He also told the scouts that he's hiked more than 40,000 miles on long distance trails. Said he's been doing 25 mile days every day. Well, except for the week that he lived at the shelter. :rolleyes:
I was creeped out by him and ended up tenting separately so I wouldn't have to share a shelter with him. I know it's ambiguous to say he was "off" but that's really the only way I can describe it...
So just a heads up to people hiking in that area. He said he was going to move on when he got his mail drop, but for some reason I don't think that mail drop is coming. It sounded like he planned to stay in the area (Clarks Ferry Shelter and Peters Mtn. Shelter).Fairly obvious he was most likely homeless or a drifter. If you felt uncomfortable being around him, then you made the right decision to vacate. I believe I read somewhere that this has happened on more than one occasion, where people have taken up residence in the shelters and these types have had to be run off by the proper authorities.
HikerMom58
05-17-2010, 10:54
Thanks so much for posting this. It's hikers like you out there being the eyes and ears on the trail that keep us all safe. :)
well we meet a homeless guy the other day in catawba he said he had no where to go and no money we told him to stay at the shelter like a mile from 311 last i heard he was posted up there for a lil while....hope he didnt cause trouble.....but dude strtd to cry when we pickd him up.....we told him he might be able to yogi food...idk prob not the best thing to do but i couldnt bring him home ha....usualy for the most part homless just want to hang out not usuealy a threat...at least thts wht ive seen
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 11:04
well we meet a homeless guy the other day in catawba he said he had no where to go and no money we told him to stay at the shelter like a mile from 311 last i heard he was posted up there for a lil while....hope he didnt cause trouble.....but dude strtd to cry when we pickd him up.....we told him he might be able to yogi food...idk prob not the best thing to do but i couldnt bring him home ha....usualy for the most part homless just want to hang out not usuealy a threat...at least thts wht ive seen
Yeah I agree he was probably harmless... but isn't there some rule that you're not supposed to spend an extended period of time occupying a shelter? Plus it's just no fun to be hiking, enjoying yourself, and then come across an extremely creepy guy who is definitely off and who won't stop talking to you or making up lies about how he's hiked the AT ten times or something. Kinda puts a damper on the experience...
depends on where u are some have like 3 day limits others u can stay 30 days idk unless posted i dnt thnk there is a real rule on it...the lies are weird meth is a powerful drug and makes people realy off and wht have ya ive meet a few tweakers out here on Va trail they act realy off so mabe tht might be this dudes disfunction...but if he creeps ya out to much just keep goin.
the dude in catawba didnt act like he was on drugs just down on his life and he said somthn bout a divorce...and court problems
Thanks so much for posting this. It's hikers like you out there being the eyes and ears on the trail that keep us all safe.:)
Yeah, I agree he was probably harmless... but isn't there some rule that you're not supposed to spend an extended period of time occupying a shelter?
Many places in Pennsylvania, overnight stays are limited to one night only. The A.T. is a footpath intended for linear hiking, not camping primarily, and it is not meant to provide shelter for homeless people whose needs would be better addressed elsewhere.
tnwolf51
05-17-2010, 13:02
wow the word drifter ummm what a word to describe someone going state to state on the at. makes ya rethink hiking.
On behalf of one of the maintaining clubs in the area mentioned - please, it would be good if you could call the ATC Mid-Atlantic Regional Office and relay your observations about this individual directly - 717 258-5771 - they can access resources up to and including Federal law enforcement if necessary.
Buzz Saw
05-17-2010, 14:58
Homeless, well you have to feel sorry for those who are down on their luck. My wife and I spent a month in the Florida Keys this winter and you could hardly find a spot at one of the picnic shelters, because they were occupied by the so called homeless. I don't know what this gentleman's situation is, but most I have met made a decision earlier in life that put them in the predicament they are in today. We all have to pay for our mistakes, but I don't feel we should have to be inconvenienced by those made by others. I'm sure some of you will feel that I am heartless, sorry, but I earned mine.
M1 Thumb
05-17-2010, 15:00
well we meet a homeless guy the other day in catawba he said he had no where to go and no money we told him to stay at the shelter like a mile from 311 last i heard he was posted up there for a lil while....hope he didnt cause trouble.....but dude strtd to cry when we pickd him up.....we told him he might be able to yogi food...idk prob not the best thing to do but i couldnt bring him home ha....usualy for the most part homless just want to hang out not usuealy a threat...at least thts wht ive seen
I just don't see where directing homeless people to AT shelters and telling him to beg food from fellow AT hikers is a good idea. I'm not heartless but if he is already in town he would be better off being directed to check with local churches that might be able to send him to local resources to help with his specific issues.
I just don't see where directing homeless people to AT shelters and telling him to beg food from fellow AT hikers is a good idea. I'm not heartless but if he is already in town he would be better off being directed to check with local churches that might be able to send him to local resources to help with his specific issues.
u said beg not me i told him he might be able to get a lil but a roof water and a ****er is always nice...have u been to catawba its pretty spread out not very many churchs around here just gonna let a guy hang around...i dont see the problem if i was in his shoes i would stay there till i figured out wht to do next..
commonwealth_hiker
05-17-2010, 15:13
Yeah, I encountered 2 or 3 guys like this who were just "off." One guy in the Shenandoahs named "Yo-Yo," I think, who genuinely made me feel nervous. Another guy at a hostel in Damascus, and a third guy somewhere in NC, I think, who had two enormous dogs.
It's a little bit annoying, but whatever. The great thing about public property or national parks are that anyone can use them. The only time I really minded was when these individuals took advantage of generous individuals in town and acted like Thru-hikers, thus giving us a bad name. But there were plenty of thru-hikers doing the same thing, I guess, and at some point, the phrase "hike your own hike" comes to mind. That earlier point about hikers all being drifters is spot on, I think.
The only time I was kind of ticked off was when I was more or less forced to occupy close quarters with one of these fellows and he absconded with some of my resupply.
if a fellow hiker walkd up to u and said a i dont have any food or a way to get it for a while are u just gonna turn ur back...hunger is no joke if u got enough to share why wont you...if u were homeless and near the trail i bet u would post up for a bit..this guy may not be a hiker but hes hungrey just the same.
wcgornto
05-17-2010, 15:19
wow the word drifter ummm what a word to describe someone going state to state on the at. makes ya rethink hiking.
Thru hikers generally have a plan, a destination, a time frame, logistical planning (when, where, how to resupply) and a bit of cash. I don't generally think of a drifter as having these characteristics.
About 12 years ago I lived on the Presidio of San Francisco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidio_of_San_Francisco)(it being cheaper for the DoD to put us up on a National Park than pay out BAH to my dad) and there were serious homeless problems there. Many of the recently vacated army buildings were being used by squatters, and some of the historical coast defense bunkers were occupied by the Homeless, and it seemed like a month couldn't go by without a tourist or resident running into trouble while exploring the park.
It an unfortunate fact of life that parks are commonly occupied by homeless folk, bets you can do is mention it to a ranger(although really, if he isn't causing trouble...why bother?).
Good thing nothing forces you to sleep next to somebody you've declared "off"
I ran into a drifter at that shelter about 4 years ago..........he was nice, and just moved on when I got there
fullhardt knob shelter has been frequinted by homeless for as long as i remember..
I can tell you that hiking the PCT is my bag lady back-up plan for sure. Maybe the AT, too.
Once when I met a homeless guy in a shelter he started talking about how nice people were to him when he said he was a hiker compared to when he was drifting around on the streets of a town or city. He started to cry.
He's got a point.
That said, when I find someone in a shelter who gives me the creeps, I move on as far and as fast as I can.
I can tell you that hiking the PCT is my bag lady back-up plan for sure. Maybe the AT, too.
Ditto. It would be a lot cheaper than maintaining a brick and mortar house.
Graywolf
05-17-2010, 16:54
I can tell you that hiking the PCT is my bag lady back-up plan for sure. Maybe the AT, too.
Thats my thoughts too, I would rather be hiking then hanging out on a street corner anyday...But I may not go to the AT though..I just may cancel my trip this year to and head to the CT... I have some missing teeth so I dont want to be considered homeless and have the authorities called on me when I say Im hiking North...yep, thats what will happen...
Actually, unless the guy is really giving a problem, leave them alone.. they have anough worries to have a smelly hiker come down on them also..The wilderness is a great place to put alot into perspective.. Actually, I have read a lot of journals where someone sells their house, their car, quit their job and decides to thru hike with NO IDEA what to do later.. So wouldnt he be considered homeless too, thank about it....Leave them alone!!
Graywolf
Mountain Wildman
05-17-2010, 17:27
I have been there myself, Lived in a small tent with my girlfriend in Florida for 6 weeks and in my boss's back yard for a couple weeks, Did have a job but making minimal wages. Did have some money so I guess I wasn't really homeless but it felt that way.
If I met a guy as described here I would probably give him some food since he probably hasn't had as much to eat as me or at least share a meal with him and throw him a few bucks and maybe even a couple gear items that I could do without or replace fairly cheaply.
I realize how uncertain life can be and I could be homeless in a year, never know.
I can tell you that hiking the PCT is my bag lady back-up plan for sure. Maybe the AT, too.
LOL
Same here. I would either do that or use the opportunity to live off the land up North.
I read about that dude in Backpacker magazine who nearly hiked the entire trail and usually didn't have any food. Thru-hikers always shared with him. He ended up burglarizing a bunch of houses and now he's in prison.
Lion King
05-17-2010, 18:58
sounds exactly like a guy I met near Duncannon the end of March when I started my section hike to Trail Days...probably is
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 19:43
Good thing nothing forces you to sleep next to somebody you've declared "off"
was there a point to this other than you just being rude?
I apologize for making a judgement call based on my first-hand experience and general gut feeling. Next time I'll post on Whiteblaze and let strangers decide for me. :)
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 19:52
Actually, unless the guy is really giving a problem, leave them alone.. they have anough worries to have a smelly hiker come down on them also..The wilderness is a great place to put alot into perspective.. Actually, I have read a lot of journals where someone sells their house, their car, quit their job and decides to thru hike with NO IDEA what to do later.. So wouldnt he be considered homeless too, thank about it....Leave them alone!!
Graywolf
The problem was more that HE wouldn't leave US alone, not the other way around.
I have a home and all that comes with it. I envy the homeless from time to time. It would be nice to sit in a shelter for 8 days and not have to worry so much. I would try to stay as clean as possible (dumpster diving days excluded). That way real thru hikers might share some food and conversation with me... :oand I could touch them inappropriately while they were sleeping.
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 21:04
I have a home and all that comes with it. I envy the homeless from time to time. It would be nice to sit in a shelter for 8 days and not have to worry so much. I would try to stay as clean as possible (dumpster diving days excluded). That way real thru hikers might share some food and conversation with me... :oand I could touch them inappropriately while they were sleeping.
:eek: :eek:
Lone Wolf
05-17-2010, 21:18
these "homeless" are just tryin' to live and stay dry. y'all are on vacation with pockets full of cash. go tent somewhere
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 21:24
these "homeless" are just tryin' to live and stay dry. y'all are on vacation with pockets full of cash. go tent somewhere
wow. read the OP. i did tent elsewhere. and why homeless in quotes? he has no home - he's homeless. he also disobeyed rules by remaining in a shelter in this region for 8 days - 7 beyond what's allowed. :rolleyes:
wow. read the OP. i did tent elsewhere. and why homeless in quotes? he has no home - he's homeless. he also disobeyed rules by remaining in a shelter in this region for 8 days - 7 beyond what's allowed. :rolleyes:
There are almost no rules on staying in shelters. They are typically first-come first-served.
Most thru-hikers are homeless. All my stuff was in storage when I thru-hiked.
This thread is proof that the AT is no wilderness trail. "Suburban" trail would be more appropriate, with all the paranoia some hikers bring to it.
You followed your gut. Good call. And at least you didn't call the police on him as many have posted about others here. But it's sad when there is so much fear of a down-on-his-luck fellow spending some time on the trail.
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 21:42
There are almost no rules on staying in shelters. They are typically first-come first-served.
Most thru-hikers are homeless. All my stuff was in storage when I thru-hiked.
This thread is proof that the AT is no wilderness trail. "Suburban" trail would be more appropriate, with all the paranoia some hikers bring to it.
You followed your gut. Good call. And at least you didn't call the police on him as many have posted about others here. But it's sad when there is so much fear of a down-on-his-luck fellow spending some time on the trail.
In this region, however, I believe there IS a regulation that you should only remain in a shelter for one day unless sick or injured. And the difference between your thruhike and what the man at the shelter was doing is enormous - mainly because I highly doubt he is truly thruhiking and I also doubt he has much in storage. If he is the same person that another poster said he/she saw in March, he's been in that region for 2.5 months.
I agree it's sad that the presence of such a person instills fear... but I guess it's hard to describe without being there. It wasn't like he was just eccentric or different... there was something distinctly wrong about him/his mannerisms/etc. Believe me, I'm a bleeding heart liberal if there ever was one, and I'm all for people who are down on their luck receiving assistance... but when you get down to the basics and it's just you and someone who your gut tells you is unsettled in the middle of the woods, it's hard not to be scared.
In this region, however, I believe there IS a regulation that you should only remain in a shelter for one day unless sick or injured. And the difference between your thruhike and what the man at the shelter was doing is enormous - mainly because I highly doubt he is truly thruhiking and I also doubt he has much in storage. If he is the same person that another poster said he/she saw in March, he's been in that region for 2.5 months.
I agree it's sad that the presence of such a person instills fear... but I guess it's hard to describe without being there. It wasn't like he was just eccentric or different... there was something distinctly wrong about him/his mannerisms/etc. Believe me, I'm a bleeding heart liberal if there ever was one, and I'm all for people who are down on their luck receiving assistance... but when you get down to the basics and it's just you and someone who your gut tells you is unsettled in the middle of the woods, it's hard not to be scared.Don't worry Molly, you did just fine. There is another Whiteblaze member who is currently attempting/thru-hiking who ran into a similar character, became alarmed and attempted to warn others here on the forum, and she also received a lot of flack for the attempt, I believe mostly because herself and other's became truly alarmed and called the authorities. You can read about it here:http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60989&highlight=dangerous+person Don't worry, it was your call in the situation, no one else was there to witness his actions. If he is begging for food, repeating things other's say (acting strange) and creeping everyone out, and also beginning to take up residency, then in my opinion he doesn't belong there.
Tuckahoe
05-17-2010, 22:03
I have to say there is so much about this thread that bothers me. I have no issues with folks that are aware of situations around them and listen to their gut feelings. However, the impression that has been made upon me is that you were creeped out because he is homeless.
hellomolly
05-17-2010, 22:11
I have to say there is so much about this thread that bothers me. I have no issues with folks that are aware of situations around them and listen to their gut feelings. However, the impression that has been made upon me is that you were creeped out because he is homeless.
Well, that's not the impression I meant to leave. I actually did not realize he was homeless until the person I was with pointed it out to me. Before I realized it, I was still creeped out by him, solely because of how he acted/behaved (as I said, repeating things people said to him word-for-word, making strange comments, not entirely making sense, slurring his words, making grand statements about his alleged accomplishments, etc). I've lived in major cities, I've met homeless people... and it wasn't solely his status as 'homeless' that creeped me out. It was the way he acted.
Dapper D, thanks! I hadn't seen that thread... ugh, if I had, I probably would not have posted this one to begin with. :o
You did the right thing to post what you did. Knowing how threads typically develop having observed this website for 5 years, I'd do likewise, but wouldn't monitor the thread or reply to it and simply post an advisory.
Blissful
05-17-2010, 22:23
Sorry but when one reads of drifters and then recalls that maniac down south that ended up killing hikers in GA TN and FL, I would hike on too. I'm sure Meredith thought that one guy was a "nice" guy to talk too, and then ends up dead.
Guys who all posted here, you can stay and help the drifters at the AT shelters holed up there...thanks for offering. Really
Ladies, march on.
The way of the jungle these days, sad but true
How backward can our world get?
We're affraid of the homeless and poor, while we praise the wealthy ... Yet poverity is a consiquence of the wealthy..
Pretty sure the homeless had nothing to do with the oil spill, bank frauds, market meltdown, realty bubble and burst, etc, etc.. In fact I have no doubt every one of those criminals would look very respectful, well groomed and behave "on" in thier fancy suits..
Misplaced logic...
Blissful
05-17-2010, 22:26
You did the right thing to post what you did. Knowing how threads typically develop having observed this website for more than 5 years, I'd do likewise, but wouldn't monitor the thread or reply to it and simply post an advisory.
Agreed. You are better off more times not looking at replies to your post. Esp hot button issues.
Blissful
05-17-2010, 22:28
How backward can our world get?
We're affraid of the homeless and poor, while we praise the wealthy ... Yet poverity is a consiquence of the wealthy..
Pretty sure the homeless had nothing to do with the oil spill, bank frauds, market meltdown, realty bubble and burst, etc, etc.. In fact I have no doubt every one of those criminals would look very respectful, well groomed and behave "on" in thier fancy suits..
Misplaced logic...
:rolleyes: Here we go...
Didn't take long...
It's page 2. The standards drop when the new page begins.
Blissful
05-17-2010, 22:37
It's page 2. The standards drop when the new page begins.
oh yeah
:cool:
How backward can our world get?
We're affraid of the homeless and poor, while we praise the wealthy ... Yet poverity is a consiquence of the wealthy..
Pretty sure the homeless had nothing to do with the oil spill, bank frauds, market meltdown, realty bubble and burst, etc, etc.. In fact I have no doubt every one of those criminals would look very respectful, well groomed and behave "on" in thier fancy suits..
Misplaced logic...Ah jeez, some people simply cannot relate to anything on a personal scale. How people can read the original post and see only an opportunity to make general political statements is beyond me.
A thruhiker was distrubed by someone bothering her (read the original post with an eye to comprehension rather than responding) and wanted to share her experience as a heads up to others. If she were in Duncannon and talked about this with other hikers, it would have received a far different response than the agenda-driven crap in this thread, including the blowhard "Well, what I would have done was..." No one cares who brave and noble you are. You weren't there. It's not always about you. Really.
Misplaced logic...
Actually, misplaced comment.
warraghiyagey
05-17-2010, 23:25
I like cheesecake. . .
I will weigh-in on this one.
From what I have read in this forum, a lot of the AT thru-hikers are homeless in the very real sense: no home, have storage, or not, many are traveling on-the-cheap.
"Homeless" however, are displaced persons: they had a home, perhaps a family they have lost to divorce, perhaps due to the job they lost, and very likely not getting their disability benefits for injury at the workplace, either that or the unemployment check ran out.
At the minimum, they are displaced persons suffering all the emotional trauma and physical deprivation of their situation. At best, they identify a "niche" and get in to some semblance of safety. Hiker, is one. Bicycle tour, is one. Fishing license and camping is one. Photographer. Freelance writer. Travel writer.
The "semblance of safety" is from John Q. Public, who stigmatizes them, and, from predators who make them crime victims.
They have to evade notice of "law enforcement" to be free people, even if it means having less.
Ever go for "help"? Ever go to "social services"? Ever go for "public assistance"?
How much do you think you have to give up to do so? Do you think it is only your dignity? only your self-worth? only your pride? No, it is your identity, judged by standing in the community, by your job, by your education, by your self-image. In large cities, if you go to those programs you are marked for a crime victim: put in a hotel room, you are a crime victim; put in a shelter, you are a crime victim; put in a program, you are a crime victim.
It is not the "safety net". It is a corral and you are captive.
It is my direct experience, I have made a conscious decision to find out good programs and tell a homeless person. I found a good free meal. I know it is a good free meal, because I checked it out by eating there more than once. I found a helpful church, synagogue or mosque or senior center. A senior meal. A good food pantry.
If I don't know a good place, I say so. I say, I don't know.
I say, this is not a good place for you. Not here.
If asked for a meal, I can't do it. If asked for cash, I can't do it.
My income is a social security check. That's it.
If asked, I offer the answers I found out around here.
One time, I found out a couple was "off the bus" has come out to West Marin, in California. They had come out for a job that included living accommodation, and were told there is no job. I offered to drive them where they asked.
For a couple of weeks, I drove them to see about another job. To town, to sign up for foodstamps. To take them to a short term job. To the campground.
Someone else heard I was doing that, gave me "gas money". I spend all of it on that couple. I had to borrow $40 from someone else to finish the month for myself.
In another instance, the MD in the tiny town allowed someone to park their car in their medical office parking lot, because it is "private property" and so the property owner has to complain for law enforcement to do anything about a person sleeping in their car.
That is effective help.
That is a "community". Just sayin'.
In my view, anything short of that is a dysfunctional community.
We are seeing a lot more homeless, because of the housing bubble and because of the credit bubble and because of the inflation bubble.
They are going to be displaced persons...
Either we are a functioning community or a dysfunctional community: that is how I see it.
I think this woman did the right thing, as far as she knew to.
hellomolly
05-18-2010, 07:04
Ah jeez, some people simply cannot relate to anything on a personal scale. How people can read the original post and see only an opportunity to make general political statements is beyond me.
A thruhiker was distrubed by someone bothering her (read the original post with an eye to comprehension rather than responding) and wanted to share her experience as a heads up to others. If she were in Duncannon and talked about this with other hikers, it would have received a far different response than the agenda-driven crap in this thread, including the blowhard "Well, what I would have done was..." No one cares who brave and noble you are. You weren't there. It's not always about you. Really.
I very much appreciate your post, but wanted to clarify one thing - I'm not thruhiking; I was on an overnight trip with my boyfriend, who IS thruhiking. :)
My $.02, Molly did the right thing by tenting elsewhere. In my experience volunteering with the homeless i have found that there are 2 kinds of destitute homeless, which this person seems to have been. There are those that ran into hard times, got layed off, house foreclosed, car repo'd, and are in a downward sprial they just cant seem to pull out of, but they are still doing everything they cant to get their lives back.
The others are the mentally ill who have fallen through the cracks of society. They can be the nicest, most honest people you will ever meet, but they can also be very unpredictible and dangerous. They dont mean harm, but their reality as they see it is not the same as ours. They need professional help (and sometimes medication) and do not belong hanging out in shelters (or even under an overpass for that matter).
I like cheesecake. . .
Me too, it's a real weakness...
warraghiyagey
05-18-2010, 08:11
Me too, it's a real weakness...
Although home-made strawberry shortcake is pretty sweet too. . . . :)
Darwin again
05-18-2010, 08:45
On behalf of one of the maintaining clubs in the area mentioned - please, it would be good if you could call the ATC Mid-Atlantic Regional Office and relay your observations about this individual directly - 717 258-5771 - they can access resources up to and including Federal law enforcement if necessary.
By federal law enforcement, you mean the NPS ranger?
I understand there's one ranger with jurisdiction on the entire trail, and that the local law enforcement, city police, sheriffs and the like, are the ones with jurisdictional authority at any given point on the trail.
Pedaling Fool
05-18-2010, 09:01
Whenever this issue of homlessness comes up it always gets intertwined with dangerous people. They really are two different subjects, despite the fact that some homeless can be dangerous they really shouldn't be considered related.
The fact that the OP used the term "Homeless" in the title that is really not the real issue of this thread. Homelessness is usually a symptom of something larger in America. I know any one of us can find ourselves homeless, but the fact of the matter is most homeless are not simply down on their luck.
modiyooch
05-18-2010, 09:10
i have found that there are 2 kinds of destitute homeless, which this person seems to have been. There are those that ran into hard times, got layed off, house foreclosed, car repo'd, and are in a downward sprial they just cant seem to pull out of, but they are still doing everything they cant to get their lives back.
I would say 3 kinds, one being career homelessness. Again, harmless, but tend not to get the compassion that the mentally disabled, or the "hard times" homelessness should get. It's also hard to distinquished between the two.
kayak karl
05-18-2010, 09:20
you probably would of thought the same thing if you ran into Henry Charles Bukowski :) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bukowski)
YOUR LOSS.
many of us are only 4 paychecks away from these people. they are US. talk to them, get involved in shelters and kitchens. it may change your thoughts.
i lived on the streets, but it wasn't that bad. i lived in a refrigerator box. others only had smaller appliance boxes.
i was BETTER then them.................
Although home-made strawberry shortcake is pretty sweet too. . . . :)
And less calories and fat :p
kayak karl
05-18-2010, 09:28
i would say 3 kinds.................... Hard to distinquished between the two.
lol..............
modiyooch
05-18-2010, 09:34
many of us are only 4 paychecks away from these people. they are US. talk to them, get involved in shelters and kitchens. it may change your thoughts.
i lived on the streets, but it wasn't that bad. i lived in a refrigerator box. others only had smaller appliance boxes.
i was BETTER then them.................I am involved. I'm just being honest whereas I can get discouraged. I do not consider myself better.
I read a really good story about these imitators in the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/science/16crea.htmlNice reference. :)
I can tell you that hiking the PCT is my bag lady back-up plan for sure. Maybe the AT, too.
+1, but Canadian woods and trails and coastlines in my case.
I think trails are for everyone, not just for those that have "earned" it.
Should we keep more successful people off the trail because they might have caused more impact on our environment through their work and through their way of living? I think in many ways some of these lost souls of our society need the trail as much as our homeless people.
In many ways our trails are like our places of worship. They have to remain open to everyone. Sure, there have to be limits on behaviour, but there also has to be some compassion and understanding. If people are making an effort, you have to give them some latitude. You can't judge people based on their wealth, one way or the other. People with more money or less money than us are not neccessarily less responsible, or worthy. You can't judge a book by its cover.
kayak karl
05-18-2010, 10:10
I am involved. I'm just being honest whereas I can get discouraged. I do not consider myself better.
i was not posting to u. the 3 three types and only describing two was just a joke. i read YOUR other posts.
it's just funny that when i was on the streets i compared myself to other homeless and found myself BETTER. and as you know, if you are not involved you don't understand and YES we get discouraged. it's hard to do enough to turn a corner, let alone keep our/their heads above water.
in other threads the word BUM was used. if you called my grandpop a bum he would of beat them to an inch of their life. he was a HOBO:D
By federal law enforcement, you mean the NPS ranger?
I understand there's one ranger with jurisdiction on the entire trail, and that the local law enforcement, city police, sheriffs and the like, are the ones with jurisdictional authority at any given point on the trail.
The two shelters mentioned by the OP are on NPS property and located in a state where counties do not have road patrol, and in municipalities without local police. There are at least 2 NPS ranger positions on the A.T. now and one is stationed nearby.
Note that I did not say to call the state police or the ranger directly. The ATC regional office has folks who are capable and experienced at assessing situations like this that are fairly common in this area. The ATC staff can direct the ridgerunner or others to make an assessment, or if the actual circumstances sufficiently alarming, alert the ranger.
Please, make the ATC aware of the situation, hopefully there is no actual threat to hikers or other members of the public but let's let them make that call.
It would be interesting to know on what basis they make such calls.
kayak karl
05-18-2010, 11:10
It would be interesting to know on what basis they make such calls.
and you said it in 2 post. good for you :sun and your right:)
When I was on the PCT, I met a guy who was really thru-hiking that was having to resupply by dumpster diving for his next resupply. He had drunk all his funds for the state of Oregon back at the very 1st trailtown in the state and was living off hiker boxes and food thrown out behind resturants until he got more money the next month. We were camping together in a trail angel's campsite who had fed us. After we went to bed, he stayed up drinking all the beer the trailangel had in their cooler and spent half the night talking to himself in a creepy way by the fire keeping us awake. By then, he only had 1 pair of socks with a large hole and his eyes had that "look" of someone who has lived a hard life which just added to the whole homeless aura he was giving off. But he did hike most of the trail before foot trouble forced himoff. Unlike most hikers, if I had seen him on skid-row, I wouldn't have known the difference.
It would be interesting to know on what basis they make such calls.
Wouldn't it? The people who make such calls don't ordinarily post here and it shouldn't surprise those who do. Their participation isn't welcomed. Besides, it wouldn't be good use of public funds.
They can be the nicest, most honest people you will ever meet, but they can also be very unpredictible and dangerous. They dont mean harm, but their reality as they see it is not the same as ours. They need professional help (and sometimes medication) and do not belong hanging out in shelters.Could not have said it better myself. The fact of the matter is, all through life you are going to meet people out in the world who exhibit some form or forms of mental issues. The problem is, out on the trail in an isolated type environment such as the woods, it is easy to see how people can quickly become alarmed due to a person acting strange, off, etc...The best thing to do as other's have said is to move on, get yourself to somewhere away from the individual, to where there are other people around if possible where you will feel/be safer . Dealing with homeless people is one thing. Dealing with someone acting in a bizarre, mental state is another. And if these people are acting bizarre like this, who in their right mind would want to spend the night camping out with them?
kayak karl
05-18-2010, 21:44
if i learned anything from this thread, i learned how to get a shelter ...all to myself.
if i learned anything from this thread, i learned how to get a shelter ...all to myself.
Best post of this entire thread! LOL
Best post of this entire thread! LOL
THIS is the best post of the entire thread! Where somebody bumps the topic to tell everybody about the best part of the thread!!!11 then throws in their oh-so-quirky-yet-original tagline of how they felt: LOL!
tnwolf51
05-20-2010, 08:33
i really hope people dont think that just because a person has a homade pack and not many teeth that means there homeless.mils. of people in the world loose teeth and a good part that hike the AT are in a way homless but doesnt mean there not any better or worse then the next person.
I guess living in ground zero (just about) of homelessness I have a jaded idea of who the homeless are. Some guy, even with some mental issues, hiking a trail with crappy gear and no teeth wouldn't necessarily equate to homeless. It takes work to hike the trail and the trail becomes home. But just living in one place, in a shelter or in a canyon, with your trash strewn all around, maybe that's more like homeless. Not that it really matters much. People get so wound up about the homeless. They either want to rescue them or they hate/fear them. I say just leave them alone. Maybe they get such a rise out of people because they are showing that all is not rosy in consumption-land.
turtle fast
05-20-2010, 13:28
When it comes down to it the guy can't live in the shelter wacky or not. Local law enforcement have more connections to mental or life help services for this guy than hikers do. It could be also that this guy may have some warents on him...or he has a family looking for him. Whatever the case the guy obviously needs help....just looking the other way is not right nor compassionate. Informing the ATC is a good idea.
I hope I am never "helped" by someone who thinks officials are there to help.
That era ended with the attrition of the depression-era cops.
I sincerely believe the present officials only want their paycheck: exceptions exist, and are rare.
It is difficult to discern an alcoholic, drug-addict, and a mentally ill person. I can do it because I was in San Francisco, CA over 18 years of my life.
No matter what: If a public safety hazard, report.
If uncomfortable because their life repudiates what props up your world-view, shame on you.
I say this, because I sincerely believe "they" (alcoholics, drug-addicts and mentally ill) are the "canaries" of life, showing there is something toxic about the society they are in.
Graywolf
05-21-2010, 03:44
OK This is what really PISSES me off. This is just the thing I have always talked about in these kind of threads.. Today, I went back to REI to check on some equipment and while I was there, guess what happened?? I was complained about because someone thought I was homeless.. They went forward, asking for the manager, when one came to me and said I needed to leave. I asked why?? They said, "because I am homeless and this is an outdoor business". I proceeded to tell them I was a regular patron when. once again I was told, " Leave or we will call the police.." I asked on what growns. I spend my good money here. One of the employees who know me came up and asked what was wrong, they told her I was homeless and needed to leave. She laughed at them and told them I am a regular customer who is getting equipment to walk the AT. The reason they gave is because I do have a missing tooth, and I shake.. She told them I have esseintiail tremors and I am probaly the reason they have a job.. I was really pissed, but with her coming to my aid, I was ok. But this come to show what kind of judgement people take on folks they do not know. It was really embarressing and hope it never happens to any if you..Leave the poeple Alone!!
Graywolf
I hope I am never "helped" by someone who thinks officials are there to help.
That era ended with the attrition of the depression-era cops.
I know, right? The government services were much better in the era of overt party machines and government-sanctioned segregation. :banana
tnwolf51
05-21-2010, 07:56
wow all this talk about homeless on the trail having the law called om em heck im 51 lost my front teeth and sight in my left eye in a boating accident going to use a homeade backpack but new tent & sleeping bag does this mean just cause im fugly to i stand a good chance having the law called on me as well? oh well happy trails
hellomolly
05-21-2010, 08:17
wow all this talk about homeless on the trail having the law called om em heck im 51 lost my front teeth and sight in my left eye in a boating accident going to use a homeade backpack but new tent & sleeping bag does this mean just cause im fugly to i stand a good chance having the law called on me as well? oh well happy trails
Well, if you talk to yourself, repeat what others say, slur your words, bother people, live at a shelter for more than a week, invite yourself to other peoples' food and, oh yeah, BOTHER people and won't leave them alone... yeah, probably. :)
OK This is what really PISSES me off. This is just the thing I have always talked about in these kind of threads.. Today, I went back to REI to check on some equipment and while I was there, guess what happened?? I was complained about because someone thought I was homeless.. They went forward, asking for the manager, when one came to me and said I needed to leave. I asked why?? They said, "because I am homeless and this is an outdoor business". I proceeded to tell them I was a regular patron when. once again I was told, " Leave or we will call the police.." I asked on what growns. I spend my good money here. One of the employees who know me came up and asked what was wrong, they told her I was homeless and needed to leave. She laughed at them and told them I am a regular customer who is getting equipment to walk the AT. The reason they gave is because I do have a missing tooth, and I shake.. She told them I have esseintiail tremors and I am probaly the reason they have a job.. I was really pissed, but with her coming to my aid, I was ok. But this come to show what kind of judgement people take on folks they do not know. It was really embarressing and hope it never happens to any if you..Leave the poeple Alone!!
Graywolf
I'm a big guy with a beard and tattoos. I also work for REI. Routinely, the suburban housewives who come into footwear at the store will actively turn away from me and pull out their cell phones to avoid any contact with me. If I'm the only one in the department, they may eventually ask for help since they can't get shoes without me. Once they interact a bit, they usually warm up. But initially, their fear or loathing are sometimes barely disguised. I can empathize with your situation.
wow all this talk about homeless on the trail having the law called om em heck im 51 lost my front teeth and sight in my left eye in a boating accident going to use a homeade backpack but new tent & sleeping bag does this mean just cause im fugly to i stand a good chance having the law called on me as well? oh well happy trails
99% of the folks out there will be fine with you. I suspect HelloMolly would be too. But there are definitely some folks out there that believe the systems of protection that exist in a town should be in place for them in the backcountry as well. I guess it comes as a shock that they are their own first line with any other members of their community as a (hopeful) assist. I suspect when their illusions are shattered they see the boogey man in every shadow. My wife has told me how certain hikers freaked her out when I was right there with her. To me, they were perfectly normal seasoned hikers with typical quirks. But it took her a while to get used to them.
You'll run into all types on the AT. Give folks space. Don't sleep in shelters. You'll pretty much be fine.
HikerMom58
05-21-2010, 10:23
OK....people on this thread can "down play" the truth all they want. The TRUTH is this...there are mentally ill people on trail. That's a FACT. Any hiker out there, at any given time, may or may not ever have to deal with it. If you are a hiker that has to deal with it, it is NOT COOL to have fellow hikers down play it or pretend it doesn't exist. A BIG THANK YOU goes out to all the hikers out there who HAVE shared their experience with such people on here AND called the proper authorities to check it out. I, personally, don't think for 1 minute that the individuals that post their concerns about anyone they meet on the trail that raise serious "red flags" do so without a lot of thought and reservation. IMHO.
LOL
Same here. I would either do that or use the opportunity to live off the land up North.
Make sure you learn from McCandless' story and leave your ideology at the door.
Monkeyboy
05-21-2010, 11:30
I'm a big guy with a beard and tattoos. I also work for REI. Routinely, the suburban housewives who come into footwear at the store will actively turn away from me and pull out their cell phones to avoid any contact with me. If I'm the only one in the department, they may eventually ask for help since they can't get shoes without me. Once they interact a bit, they usually warm up. But initially, their fear or loathing are sometimes barely disguised. I can empathize with your situation.
99% of the folks out there will be fine with you. I suspect HelloMolly would be too. But there are definitely some folks out there that believe the systems of protection that exist in a town should be in place for them in the backcountry as well. I guess it comes as a shock that they are their own first line with any other members of their community as a (hopeful) assist. I suspect when their illusions are shattered they see the boogey man in every shadow. My wife has told me how certain hikers freaked her out when I was right there with her. To me, they were perfectly normal seasoned hikers with typical quirks. But it took her a while to get used to them.
You'll run into all types on the AT. Give folks space. Don't sleep in shelters. You'll pretty much be fine.
It's the kilt that freaks 'em out........
Monkeyboy
05-21-2010, 11:35
Stayed at Plumorchard Shelter one evening.
There was a homeless guy already set up in the shelter, and of course complaining about "running out" of food.
Then, a second one shows up dragging an indian style litter behind him, carrying a bunch of stuff that looked like he was breaking and entering homes. He set up at a campsite, immediately went into his tent and didn't come out until after we left the next morning.
One hiker behind the guy with the litter said the guy was getting cheap costume jewelry and throwing it in the bushes as he drug his litter down the trail, as if he was looking through his spoils as he hiked and getting rid of stuff of no value.
So yeah, when we got out a Deep Gap the next day, the first thing we did was inform the authorities.
tnwolf51
05-21-2010, 11:35
well molly ill have my own supplies plenty food and such plan on tenting as much as i can dont beleave in bothering folks tho i do enjoy a good campfire story and have a few of my own and the only time im in one spot more then a day is if im on a 0 day
This has happened to me! Big time.
I wear expensive clothes, but they are clothing specifically for the outdoors.
Nothing wrong with the brands I wear. Nothing wrong with behavior, except I am interested in things and I have a lot to say. I do that in forums, because "mindless" "thoughtless" people do not like people who are "mindful" and are "thinking" people. They are actually annoyed because it shows them up!
I am going over to REI today, because the store employees want me there for their anniversary at that store, because I have the "lowest membership number" and they are giving a prize.
I thought: does my hair look okay? I have a missing front tooth, from being a crime victim. Will there be pictures? I had better wear my "walking shoes" and not my trail shoes. Like that!
This is real stuff.
Our society is screwed up!
In this country, the USA, we have people so concerned about their "PC" and their "public image" I have to "worry" about this, just so the employees that know I spend big-buck$ at their store want me to have their store anniversary prize.
Bucherm, The neighbors and the local church of any type provided more than any social service agency anywhere. They are pure fiction!
My parents lived in The Great Depression.
That liberal view you have, based on no actual experience, gives jobs to a lot of worthless bums collecting a check and not even bothering to show up for their job!
Out of all the hotbutton issues out there, who'da thunk homeless people would be at the top of the list on whiteblaze?
Pedaling Fool
05-21-2010, 12:20
Whenever this issue of homlessness comes up it always gets intertwined with dangerous people. They really are two different subjects, despite the fact that some homeless can be dangerous they really shouldn't be considered related.
The fact that the OP used the term "Homeless" in the title that is really not the real issue of this thread. Homelessness is usually a symptom of something larger in America. I know any one of us can find ourselves homeless, but the fact of the matter is most homeless are not simply down on their luck.
I must admit, after some self reflection I feel as though I'm somewhat of a hypocrit.
Whenever the issue of girls comes up I always think of boobs. The two are just too intertwined in my head.
:sun
Out of all the hotbutton issues out there, who'da thunk homeless people would be at the top of the list on whiteblaze?
Yeah, right. Start a thread about dogs who carry concealed while using trekking poles in shelters as they comtemplate carry out their poop before fording the Kennebec. :eek:
Just saying.
Monkeyboy
05-21-2010, 14:13
You forgot to mention that the dogs filter their water.
Good one, Bearpaw.
It is a real issue for us. I just back from REI, where so far I have the "lowest membership number".
I am very well liked there. The employees know I spend a great deal. I give feedback on products.
Nevertheless, I had an employee who did not know me walk behind me slowly, "lean in" and smell to see if I stink like a homeless person.
Homelessness "issues" are a "big deal" for people who love the outdoors, no matter that we wear expensive brand-name clothing made for the outdoors.
Anyone can easily "spot" the clothing choices of a person who only steps from their car into a building. And those "nice people" are not very nice!
TIDE-HSV
05-21-2010, 14:45
I'm a big guy with a beard and tattoos. I also work for REI. Routinely, the suburban housewives who come into footwear at the store will actively turn away from me and pull out their cell phones to avoid any contact with me. If I'm the only one in the department, they may eventually ask for help since they can't get shoes without me. Once they interact a bit, they usually warm up. But initially, their fear or loathing are sometimes barely disguised. I can empathize with your situation.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I came in during the sale and bought two packs. I actually looked for you, but it was an off-day. :) Connie, mine is #270492. I have a friend whose is in the 55K range...
Monkeyboy
05-21-2010, 14:50
Nevertheless, I had an employee who did not know me walk behind me slowly, "lean in" and smell to see if I stink like a homeless person.
Homelessness "issues" are a "big deal" for people who love the outdoors, no matter that we wear expensive brand-name clothing made for the outdoors.
Anyone can easily "spot" the clothing choices of a person who only steps from their car into a building. And those "nice people" are not very nice!
I find it hard to believe that someone would lean in to smell you.
Especially an outfitter who deals with hikers all the thing.
It just happened. I just got back here.
#23-119
Most of the people in that store purchase "fashion" outdoor clothing: Tualatin, OR.
In fact, I go in any REI and mostly what I see is "fashion" outdoor clothing.
TIDE-HSV
05-21-2010, 14:59
Wow! Lowest I've seen...
They told me they have seen one guy with a lower number. I'd like to see him.
And to think I waited a few years, buying the "sales" before getting a membership.
I am 62, but I was a mountainclimbing rope leader at 15. I had grey hair start when I was 9 years old, and, I had a high school teacher sponsor me into the college night school program. Maybe only the leaders knew my age.
I look good, too, at my age: I look much younger, people tell me.
The attitude of "city-people" is wrong, as far as I am concerned. Not liking "outdoorsy-types" and not liking "skilled-types" and not liking "innovators" and not liking "thinking-people" who can actually have a conversation. It is a trend of mediocrity. It is very "closed off".
I have complete strangers, from all walks of life, speak to me, just because I seem approachable and friendly.
But they are more few and far between than in the past.
restless
05-21-2010, 15:25
Homeless--mentally ill--dangerous people--it sounds as if homeless people are getting a bad rap on this thread. I have been homeless, usually by choice, but am not mentally ill nor dangerous. I spent 12 years building hiking trails and due to the seasonal nature of the job, never had a need to have a "home" except for a tent which I carry on my back or in my car. True, there are very few reasons why people should hole up in a shelter for more than a day or two. And there are people out there who are not hikers who give others the creeps. there are mentally ill people on the trail. There are, unfortunately, dangerous people on the trail. But to adopt an attitude that says homeless=bad goes contrary to what hikers should represent. If a person can't hike the trail unless they have name brand clothing and equipment, then we become the ultra-elitists that others go into the woods to get away from. When we come to a point where we think that all homeless people are bad people, then we should redefine our defintion of hikers. If Grandma Gatewood or even Earl Shaffer were on the trail around some of the posters on this thread, I'm fairly certain they would be listed in the homeless/mentally ill/dangerous category. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't use very much if any of the "correct" brand of gear. Even hikers in the early 70's were known to wear stuff that todays hiker would never be caught dead in. I'm not much of a Bible man, but as I recall there is a line in there that goes "be careful how you treat strangers because in doing so you may be entertaining angels unaware." If the people on the trail offend you because of the way they look, smell, dress,eat,__________________(fill in the blank), then maybe you should find another hobby. There's enough of that attitude in towns. If it's just an occasional person at a shelter, carry a "name brand" tent and go camp someplace else.
I've rambled on enuff.
TIDE-HSV
05-21-2010, 15:26
They told me they have seen one guy with a lower number. I'd like to see him.
And to think I waited a few years, buying the "sales" before getting a membership.
I am 62, but I was a mountainclimbing rope leader at 15. I had grey hair start when I was 9 years old, and, I had a high school teacher sponsor me into the college night school program. Maybe only the leaders knew my age.
I look good, too, at my age: I look much younger, people tell me.
The attitude of "city-people" is wrong, as far as I am concerned. Not liking "outdoorsy-types" and not liking "skilled-types" and not liking "innovators" and not liking "thinking-people" who can actually have a conversation. It is a trend of mediocrity. It is very "closed off".
I have complete strangers, from all walks of life, speak to me, just because I seem approachable and friendly.
But they are more few and far between than in the past.
I'm 70, but I didn't join REI until I was in my early 30s. I still have the 800 number memorized. I think having outdoors interests and activities helps with keeping one young in every sense. You can see my avatar. It's a couple of years old, but that's all.
vonfrick
05-21-2010, 15:30
I'm a big guy with a beard and tattoos. I also work for REI. Routinely, the suburban housewives who come into footwear at the store will actively turn away from me and pull out their cell phones to avoid any contact with me. If I'm the only one in the department, they may eventually ask for help since they can't get shoes without me. Once they interact a bit, they usually warm up. But initially, their fear or loathing are sometimes barely disguised. I can empathize with your situation.
99% of the folks out there will be fine with you. I suspect HelloMolly would be too. But there are definitely some folks out there that believe the systems of protection that exist in a town should be in place for them in the backcountry as well. I guess it comes as a shock that they are their own first line with any other members of their community as a (hopeful) assist. I suspect when their illusions are shattered they see the boogey man in every shadow. My wife has told me how certain hikers freaked her out when I was right there with her. To me, they were perfectly normal seasoned hikers with typical quirks. But it took her a while to get used to them.
You'll run into all types on the AT. Give folks space. Don't sleep in shelters. You'll pretty much be fine.
It's the kilt that freaks 'em out........
no, i think it's the talking bear
TIDE-HSV, I think we have a better way of life!
Good one, Bearpaw.
It is a real issue for us. I just back from REI, where so far I have the "lowest membership number".
I am very well liked there. The employees know I spend a great deal. I give feedback on products.
Nevertheless, I had an employee who did not know me walk behind me slowly, "lean in" and smell to see if I stink like a homeless person.
Homelessness "issues" are a "big deal" for people who love the outdoors, no matter that we wear expensive brand-name clothing made for the outdoors.
Anyone can easily "spot" the clothing choices of a person who only steps from their car into a building. And those "nice people" are not very nice!
I didn't say it wasn't a "big deal." Simply noting that the topic has been coming up a lot lately.
It is difficult to discern an alcoholic, drug-addict, and a mentally ill person. I can do it because I was in San Francisco, CA over 18 years of my life.
If uncomfortable because their life repudiates what props up your world-view, shame on you.
I say this, because I sincerely believe "they" (alcoholics, drug-addicts and mentally ill) are the "canaries" of life, showing there is something toxic about the society they are in.Connie, this is really a cop-out attitude. I mean, really, life can be hard and bad. But just as some turn to drugs, crime, etc...,there are other's who have had bad upbringings and hard times/events occur and have gone on to do good things in life, i.e.helping other's, leading productive lives,etc...You say you lived in San Francisco and can accurately judge people, who they are and their intentions. Well this may be, but I highely doubt it. This thread is about a guy "living in a shelter"(most likely illegally) grubbing food, acting strange, claiming to be a thru-hiker(doubtful), and raising alarm in other's. It isn't because his current gear and fashion's is not in vogue. It is because he is acting in a scary, bizarre way, and the OP felt the duty and responsibility to bring this to the attention of the hiking community and the people that are currently out there. She should be wholeheartedly applauded for her efforts.
The "canary" example, is "the canary in the coal mine". It is an analogy.
I sincerely believe alcoholics, drug-addicts and the mentally-ill show us there is something toxic in the society. They are reacting "first" in society to what is toxic.
Look at that. Our society is toxic. There is a shift to dependence on "experts" and on "officials" who are no better than anyone, and usually a lot worse. I have my information first-hand from people who have those jobs. I was, myself, a federal employee.
I think the rest is misinterpretation. I didn't say that stuff at all.
I do not disagree with what she did. I already said I agree with what she did.
The thread, like practically every thread at White Blaze, moved. In this thread it moved into homeless and the perception of backpackers, and perceptions of society, and appropriate action or non-action.
The fact is, many people in this forum report they have considerable "hiker funk" by the time they reach a hot shower in town. I, personally, do everything I can to avoid "hiker funk" by carrying and using tissues, unscented wipes, Sea To Summit pocket soaps, etal.
I said, to state a different way, I dress well (and, I smell nice) and I have some very unpleasant reactions and nasty looks from "ordinary house-bound city-dwellers" because I dress like a backpacker, kayaker, hiker, bicyclist, outdoor photographer, ...well, not so much kayaker, in town, even though I am clean and wear high-priced name-brand clothing in places where people act like they "love" the outdoors but never do much of anything outdoors: Montana, Oregon, and California.
It is my experience, more and more these days, dressing like a person who dresses for the outdoors brings reactions and responses I used to see done only for "the homeless".
It's the kilt that freaks 'em out........
Ladies love the kilt. ;)
no, i think it's the talking bear
And they love Dewey Bear even more! :banana
I guess some people are just jealous...
Highlands
Well my heart’s in the Highlands gentle and fair
Honeysuckle blooming in the wildwood air
Bluebelles blazing where the Aberdeen waters flow
Well my heart’s in the Highland
I’m gonna go there when I feel good enough to go
Windows were shakin’ all night in my dreams
Everything was exactly the way that it seems
Woke up this morning and I looked at the same old page
Same ol’ rat race
Life in the same ol’ cage
I don’t want nothing from anyone, ain’t that much to take
Wouldn’t know the difference between a real blonde and a fake
Feel like a prisoner in a world of mystery
I wish someone would come
And push back the clock for me
Well my heart’s in the Highlands wherever I roam
That’s where I’ll be when I get called home
The wind, it whispers to the buckeyed trees in rhyme
Well my heart’s in the Highland
I can only get there one step at a time
I’m listening to Neil Young, I gotta turn up the sound
Someone’s always yelling turn it down
Feel like I’m drifting
Drifting from scene to scene
I’m wondering what in the devil could it all possibly mean?
Insanity is smashing up against my soul
You can say I was on anything but a roll
If I had a conscience, well, I just might blow my top
What would I do with it anyway
Maybe take it to the pawn shop
My heart’s in the Highlands at the break of dawn
By the beautiful lake of the Black Swan
Big white clouds like chariots that swing down low
Well my heart’s in the Highlands
Only place left to go
I’m in Boston town, in some restaurant
I got no idea what I want
Well, maybe I do but I’m just really not sure
Waitress comes over
Nobody in the place but me and her
It must be a holiday, there’s nobody around
She studies me closely as I sit down
She got a pretty face and long white shiny legs
She says, “What’ll it be?”
I say, “I don’t know, you got any soft boiled eggs?”
She looks at me, says, “I’d bring you some
But we’re out of ’m, you picked the wrong time to come”
Then she says, “I know you’re an artist, draw a picture of me!”
I say, “I would if I could, but
I don’t do sketches from memory”
“Well,” she says, “I’m right here in front of you, or haven’t you looked?”
I say, “All right, I know, but I don’t have my drawing book!”
She gives me a napkin, she says, “You can do it on that”
I say, “Yes I could, but
I don’t know where my pencil is at!”
She pulls one out from behind her ear
She says, “All right now, go ahead, draw me, I’m standing right here”
I make a few lines and I show it for her to see
Well she takes the napkin and throws it back
And says, “That don’t look a thing like me!”
I said, “Oh, kind Miss, it most certainly does”
She says, “You must be jokin’.” I say, “I wish I was!”
Then she says, “You don’t read women authors, do you?”
Least that’s what I think I hear her say
“Well,” I say, “how would you know and what would it matter anyway?”
“Well,” she says, “you just don’t seem like you do!”
I said, “You’re way wrong”
She says, “Which ones have you read then?” I say, “I read Erica Jong!”
She goes away for a minute
And I slide up out of my chair
I step outside back to the busy street but nobody’s going anywhere
Well my heart’s in the Highlands with the horses and hounds
Way up in the border country, far from the towns
With the twang of the arrow and a snap of the bow
My heart’s in the Highlands
Can’t see any other way to go
Every day is the same thing out the door
Feel further away then ever before
Some things in life, it gets too late to learn
Well, I’m lost somewhere
I must have made a few bad turns
I see people in the park forgetting their troubles and woes
They’re drinking and dancing, wearing bright-colored clothes
All the young men with their young women looking so good
Well, I’d trade places with any of them
In a minute, if I could
I’m crossing the street to get away from a mangy dog
Talking to myself in a monologue
I think what I need might be a full-length leather coat
Somebody just asked me
If I registered to vote
The sun is beginning to shine on me
But it’s not like the sun that used to be
The party’s over and there’s less and less to say
I got new eyes
Everything looks far away
Well, my heart’s in the Highlands at the break of day
Over the hills and far away
There’s a way to get there and I’ll figure it out somehow
But I’m already there in my mind
And that’s good enough for now
- Bob Dylan
sasquatch2014
05-21-2010, 22:53
We had a what appeared to be a squatter at one of the shelters near me for a bit and the biggest complaint was that his dog was not well behaved. So maybe we can turn this into a dogs on the trail with homeless people thread. I have not heard back from the caretaker of that shelter as to the condition of the shelter after he moved on but that is often my biggest issues.
I often think if it weren't for my kids I could see my self heading out onto the trail in this manner. I can think of a bunch of other ways that would be worse than being on the trail. the OP did what she felt she needed to do for her safety and there is nothing wrong with that. everyone seems to have their own comfort levels and you need to follow your own gut but maybe in the interim you may say "hello". I have often found in dealing with "these people" that I am only one or two bad turns of luck away from being in their shoes.
Should they be on the trail or in the shelters? Well that depends on if you want to quote the laws and regulations or look a bit deeper and use your own judgement and do your own thinking. when i run into some one who seems a bit "Crazy" at a shelter I put them into one of two groups. the first group is the crazy talk to yourself on the bus type. I settle in for a night of very random and bizarre conversation. It's often like following a 4 year olds stream of consciousness. The next group is the go postal if you don't hold my beliefs crazy and cut you into small pieces while you sleep crazy. In this case I tend to move on and will share with others that I meet that I had a bad vibe or felt uncomfortable. I haven't ever felt so alarmed that I contacted the "man" but that is not to say that the situation would not sometime come to that.
This thread seems to be popping up more and more lately maybe it is a sign to come maybe there is a "canary" that is chirping who knows that the cause is. I have my thoughts but i will not post them here because the thread would be locked quickly if i did. Wink Wink Nod Nod.
Bucherm, The neighbors and the local church of any type provided more than any social service agency anywhere. They are pure fiction!
No, they certainly didn't provide "more" service, and what service they did provide came with strings attached(listening to others proselytize). Mind you, saying that the Only Game In Town provided better social services than the non-existent government services is pretty disingenuous.
My parents lived in The Great Depression.
What does that have to do with the price of beer?
Also? I bet that didn't stop them from accepting Great Depression social programs money like Social Security.
That liberal view you have, based on no actual experience,
Ha. I love it. You're right, I have zero experience in these sort of things. I must have completely hallucinated trying to Shepherd my Uncle through rehab, and dealing with evangelicalizing faith-based charities that presented everything through "the devil is trying to tempt you". Real practical advice for a drug addict.
From a broader perspective, I guess I must've completely been tripping from the drugs during those 3 weeks I was working for a government agency in refugee camps in Sumatra post-tsunami, while faith-based charities were demanding that that their religious material be given equal space on cargo airplanes carrying humanitarian aid in. Oh and also can the USN and USAF try to smuggle those Bibles past the Indonesian authorities for us? :-?
gives jobs to a lot of worthless bums collecting a check and not even bothering to show up for their job!
And you got that that was my view on social welfare from that post...how?
The "canary" example, is "the canary in the coal mine". It is an analogy.
I sincerely believe alcoholics, drug-addicts and the mentally-ill show us there is something toxic in the society. They are reacting "first" in society to what is toxic.
Look at that. Our society is toxic. There is a shift to dependence on "experts" and on "officials" who are no better than anyone, and usually a lot worse. I have my information first-hand from people who have those jobs. I was, myself, a federal employee.
I think the rest is misinterpretation. I didn't say that stuff at all.
I do not disagree with what she did. I already said I agree with what she did.
The thread, like practically every thread at White Blaze, moved. In this thread it moved into homeless and the perception of backpackers, and perceptions of society, and appropriate action or non-action.
The fact is, many people in this forum report they have considerable "hiker funk" by the time they reach a hot shower in town. I, personally, do everything I can to avoid "hiker funk" by carrying and using tissues, unscented wipes, Sea To Summit pocket soaps, etal.
I said, to state a different way, I dress well (and, I smell nice) and I have some very unpleasant reactions and nasty looks from "ordinary house-bound city-dwellers" because I dress like a backpacker, kayaker, hiker, bicyclist, outdoor photographer, ...well, not so much kayaker, in town, even though I am clean and wear high-priced name-brand clothing in places where people act like they "love" the outdoors but never do much of anything outdoors: Montana, Oregon, and California.
It is my experience, more and more these days, dressing like a person who dresses for the outdoors brings reactions and responses I used to see done only for "the homeless".
So you're an expert rock climber, a genius, REI's best customer, have good looks and sense of style, are above most of society, and now, a psychiatrist.
Did I leave any of your credentials out? I'm sure you'll let us know. :rolleyes:
I look FABULOUS on long hikes...
http://pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=14207&g2_serialNumber=2
My shirt is $4, the shorts were $10 (a French company..Tahzhey)...
Not sure if I really love the outdoors or not.....
No, they certainly didn't provide "more" service, and what service they did provide came with strings attached(listening to others proselytize). Mind you, saying that the Only Game In Town provided better social services than the non-existent government services is pretty disingenuous.
It's hard to take your argument seriously when you write this.
The Weasel
05-22-2010, 22:54
Whatever.
TW
sasquatch2014
05-22-2010, 23:03
I talked to my wife earlier about this thread and unfortunately she wont let me leave everything and become homeless on the trail at least for a few more years. Hey I did my part and asked as a result I will be forced back down into the basement for a while.
Low Step
05-26-2010, 19:24
Obviously, not all drifters and homeless people are the same. The person that the OP encountered sounded like a real concern. Homeless people should be handled on a case by case basis.
Ha. I love it. You're right, I have zero experience in these sort of things. I must have completely hallucinated trying to Shepherd my Uncle through rehab, and dealing with evangelicalizing faith-based charities that presented everything through "the devil is trying to tempt you". Real practical advice for a drug addict.
From a broader perspective, I guess I must've completely been tripping from the drugs during those 3 weeks I was working for a government agency in refugee camps in Sumatra post-tsunami, while faith-based charities were demanding that that their religious material be given equal space on cargo airplanes carrying humanitarian aid in.Oh yeah. You think that's great? Well, I sheparded a REAL shepard through rehab, and dealt not only with faith based charities, but also animal rights acitvists. So there!
Plus I spent not just 3 but 4 weeks in an even more important disaster place than Sumatra, maybe even Haiti, where I had not only faith based charities but voodoo spirits demanding equal space, and not only on airplanes, but the SPACE SHUTTLE, too. I worked 25 hours a day, 8 days a week.
Did I leave anything out?
Your turn again.
Oh yeah. You think that's great? Well, I sheparded a REAL shepard through rehab, and dealt not only with faith based charities, but also animal rights acitvists. So there!
Plus I spent not just 3 but 4 weeks in an even more important disaster place than Sumatra, maybe even Haiti, where I had not only faith based charities but voodoo spirits demanding equal space, and not only on airplanes, but the SPACE SHUTTLE, too. I worked 25 hours a day, 8 days a week.
Did I leave anything out?
Your turn again.
My e-penis is bigger than yours? Seriously, what is the point of this post?
Maybe I'm having brain fog but I thought the AT was for hiking, not for setting up a homeless camp.
Obviously, not all drifters and homeless people are the same. The person that the OP encountered sounded like a real concern. Homeless people should be handled on a case by case basis.
Short but very true, I've met 2 homeless people this year on the trail and both were very decent but about 2 years ago We met a real freak whom changed our plans to stay where we had intended.
Maybe I'm having brain fog but I thought the AT was for hiking, not for setting up a homeless camp.
Benton Mackaye, the guy behind the whole idea of the AT most likely thought differently...
Most sanitariums now established are perfectly useless to those afflicted with mental disease -
the most terrible, usually, of any disease. Many of these sufferers could be cured. But not merely
by "treatment." They need acres not medicine. Thousands of acres of this mountain land should
be devoted to them with whole communities planned and equipped for their cure.
source (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/MacKaye.pdf)
What I want to know is: What is up with all of this hate? Many thru-hikers are technically homeless, and they have some of the same issues that your "standard" homeless person has.
Many thru-hikers are technically homeless, and they have some of the same issues that your "standard" homeless person has.No, they are not, and no, they don't.
Squatting ain't hiking.
I don't see how anyone in their right mind can advocate having homeless people live in hiking shelters.
I think hikers should not head into the city and squat there, eating every day from soup kitchens funded to feed the homeless, and I think homeless folks should not squat in AT shelters.
But that is just me.
What I want to know is: What is up with all of this hate?It isn't hate, and you know very well what it is: How many homeless folks have you invited to live with you in your home for months at a time?
No, they are not, and no, they don't.
Squatting ain't hiking.
I don't see how anyone in their right mind can advocate having homeless people live in hiking shelters.
I think hikers should not head into the city and squat there, eating every day from soup kitchens funded to feed the homeless, and I think homeless folks should not squat in AT shelters.
But that is just me.
It isn't hate, and you know very well what it is: How many homeless folks have you invited to live with you in your home for months at a time?
i agree, but soup kitchens don't belong in this discussion... that implies hikers going to feeds are acting homeless ;)
David@whiteblaze
05-28-2010, 18:27
so segregation in America survives? even though they are equals (save a couple $1000), Thru-hikers are now segregated from bums? (oh, my apologies, hoboes :rolleyes: )
Happy Trails and all that...
-Hikes with No-Sweat
No, they are not, and no, they don't.
Really?
I became homeless myself in early 2008 when I liquidated the majority of my belongings and moved the rest into storage in preparation for my thru-hike. The next six months of my life revolved around drifting from one spot to another. I hobo camped in city parks, dark ally-ways, and next to railroad tracks. I gladly accepted food handouts. I hitch hiked. By pretty much any definition, I was homeless; and I was not alone.
And you know what? I met some very strange people who were also out hiking. Mental problems are not limited to the homeless that you seem to so dislike.
It isn't hate, and you know very well what it is: How many homeless folks have you invited to live with you in your home for months at a time?
If it's not hate, what is it, ignorance?
I have allowed friends to stay on my couch for more than a month while they worked out their financial issues. I wouldn't invite someone I didn't know to stay in my house. I guess that makes me an ass.
Just because you can afford to pay you rent/mortgage does make you a better person. Get off your high horse.
Montana, my post was not meant to make you feel like you had to defend homelessness. Personally, I agree with much of what you said. In particulary I agree, there is a stigma of prejedice, and even hatred, resulting from ignorance and non-acceptance towards those who are deemed homeless. I too, after having gone on long hikes throughout the U.S,. and at one time drifting around for 6 months, was often pegged as being homeless. I felt that prejedice, stigma, hatred, and even pity from others that I think homeless people get.
During my travels I have met and spoken with literally 100's of homeless folks(BTW, I dislike the word homeless. I think it should be redefined as being houseless). Of the 100's of homeless folks I've spent time with I would say within their population there existed a higher avg rate of of mental disease and addiction(drugs, alcohol) than the national averages. I think statistics bear this out. But, being homeless IS NOT inclusive to having mental disease or being an addict! There are many homeless who are not mentally disabled or drug addicts! Just as there are many mentally handicapped or drug addicted persons who are not homeless! I will say, WHEREVER I witnessed homeless living/squatting they tended to treat those areas as garbage dumps!
I have heard MANY stories and ocurrences about how folks became homeless and why they were still homeless; I often asked them about these things. Some seemed to just be down on their luck or had experienced a sudden catstrophic event. Surprisingly, I found some of them had chosen to live that way, even if they were not addicts or mentally disabled. Some were fugitives, running from things like child support. Many, simply had never gotten themselves together and couldn't find a viable way out of their lifestyle. Also, and this will offend some, but many were simply lazy, seeking a life of handouts or dumpster diving to subsist.
Thanks for sharing Benton MacKayes' quote. While I agree there is a correlation between homelessness and being mantally disabled, as I said above, they are not inclusive. Nor do I think Benton MacKaye was directly referring to folks who are homeless when he referred to wilderness and the outdoors being a medicine to those who are mentally disabled. He was referring to those in sanitoriums, those with mental diseases, NOT necessarily those who are homeless.
AT shelters and the AT WAS NOT meant for homeless folks to set up homeless camps!
Dogwood, thank you for your comments. I was just bothered by the blatant prejudice towards "homeless" that I was seeing in this thread, and felt that I had to remind people that the average American is only a paycheck or two away from being in the same boat.
In the 60s and 70s, many of the sanatoriums across the nation closed due to changing ideas on what mental disease was, and how to treat it. This effectively put thousands of people onto the streets, people that didn't necessarily have the capability to reintegrate with society. This is most likely where the homeless/mental disease link comes from, whether it is real, or not. When Benton Mackaye wrote An Appalachian Trail - A Project in Regional Planning, America was experiencing a rather prosperous time, and homelessness rates were rather low. I hate to put words into a dead man's mouth, but I'm fairly certain that he was talking about the same people that we are talking about today.
I will say, WHEREVER I witnessed homeless living/squatting they tended to treat those areas as garbage dumps!
I not saying that I want to see people squatting in the shelters along the AT. Actually, I would rather see all of the shelters removed, solving multiple problems at once. I just want everyone to stop and think about their prejudices for a second. Homelessness is a result of many factors, and one should not automatically assume that a homeless person is any less of a person.
B Thrash
05-29-2010, 18:06
This is got to be the same guy that I run into at Cove Mountain Shelter last September, he did not have anything to eat but he had some sweet smokes. He had been there a few days when I got there. I moved on.
its amusing to see the number of folks here, that feel being on the AT, or any other trail they use, is like a walk at Disney Land.
Even though the AT is not really isolated, and certainly not a walk in the wilderness, but it is enough removed from 'civilization' that one needs to be prepared to fend for themselves.
Avoidance of any person or thing that makes you uncomfortable works, but beyond that, a prudent person is prepared to insure they are able to enjoy their hike unmolested.
The fellow sounds like he could of been living with a mental illness ~ which can freak ordinary folks out. Am a beginning hiker myself, but have worked in that field (mental health) for most of my life and would suggest, as others have, trusting your gut instincts and put some space between yourself and the person. Most mentally ill folks are harmless, but there are the few who struggle with paranoia and the like, and might be threatening.
Hairbear
08-05-2012, 03:07
the native americans have a saying.on the trail of life we will be remembered by the tracks that we leave.i cant help but notice that several people have posted a list of possible reasons that these people are homeless,is it a coincidence that all reasons seem to be something that we dont see in ourselves.is it because that we dont want to admit that our potential to become the same is very great under perhaps the same situations.noone here has mentioned that perhaps these people are in the condition they are in because they have been devastated by what they have seen in the defence of the freedom that we all enjoy.alot of times there is great honor in what they are we just cant see it.i understand the feeling of fear at something that we see as not normal listen to your gut for sure and keep yourself safe at all cost.i am not surprised that a homeless person would say they were a thru hiker,because if you are thought of as being homeless you get your ass set on fire. if a tru hiker can be set on fire because some douch thinks hes homeless think about what the life of homeless might be like.
the native americans have a saying.on the trail of life we will be remembered by the tracks that we leave.i cant help but notice that several people have posted a list of possible reasons that these people are homeless,is it a coincidence that all reasons seem to be something that we dont see in ourselves.is it because that we dont want to admit that our potential to become the same is very great under perhaps the same situations.noone here has mentioned that perhaps these people are in the condition they are in because they have been devastated by what they have seen in the defence of the freedom that we all enjoy.alot of times there is great honor in what they are we just cant see it.i understand the feeling of fear at something that we see as not normal listen to your gut for sure and keep yourself safe at all cost.i am not surprised that a homeless person would say they were a thru hiker,because if you are thought of as being homeless you get your ass set on fire. if a tru hiker can be set on fire because some douch thinks hes homeless think about what the life of homeless might be like.
Extremely well put Hairbear. Its generalization that causes some to see others as subhuman. Then some other idiot acts on those beliefs.
Hairbear
08-05-2012, 11:12
so segregation in America survives? even though they are equals (save a couple $1000), Thru-hikers are now segregated from bums? (oh, my apologies, hoboes :rolleyes: )
Happy Trails and all that...
-Hikes with No-Sweat
i like the important notice............
Wise Old Owl
08-05-2012, 11:18
WoW you all got philosophical over night - not a lot to do huh - go hiking!
atmilkman
08-05-2012, 11:24
WoW you all got philosophical over night - not a lot to do huh - go hiking!
The tribe has smokin' - oops - spoken.:)
Wise Old Owl
08-05-2012, 11:39
so sayeth the Tribe! Is there a Sawyer in line filter with that?
Kryptonite
08-05-2012, 11:49
What no one has mentioned is that everyone here says that the best way to protect yourself on the trail is to trust your instincts. Especially women who may not be able to defend themselves as much as guys can. (Not always the case, but sometimes it is.) in these hard times, there are a lot of homeless. I have nothing but compassion for them, but if I sense something is off - I'm not staying there. The homeless themselves will tell you that many of the people need medication or have some serious problems. And I'm not being biased. Anyone who I feel weird vibes, even if they own 5 homes, I'm going to avoid. Most of the guys on the trail look homeless by the end anyway - but anyone that I feel has serious problems, I'm going to avoid. It doesn't mean that I don't care. It means that I'm not a Social Worker and being alone with some guy on the trail with problems may bring harm to me. Just because someone LOOKS homeless isn't the deal. All the guys kind of look this way by Maine anyway- but if someone acts weird - I don't care if it is PC or not - I'm there to hike not solve the problems of the world.
I also think everyone would kind of be singing a different tune if suddenly it wasn't one or two homeless - but the shelters were filled with homeless. I think some of you would be yelling the loudest.
so sayeth the Tribe! Is there a Sawyer in line filter with that?
It got clogged up with some kind of BS! Apparently it can only filter so much.:D
Wise Old Owl
08-05-2012, 12:00
Kryptonite (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?42056-Kryptonite) Honest "What no one has mentioned is that everyone here says that the best way to protect yourself on the trail is to trust your instincts" has been said pant loads of times.... since 2005... it appears in almost all homeless hobo threads. do an advance search if you don't believe me. it's just an observation - no biggie.
just follks exspressing their fears again, tune in next week - bears, shelte-rmice, and snakes oh my.....
atmilkman
08-05-2012, 12:04
just follks exspressing their fears again, tune in next week - bears, shelte-rmice, and snakes oh my.....
Don't forget the evil of not using a SILWF and drinking unfiltered water - God forbid.
Maybe I'm having brain fog but I thought the AT was for hiking, not for setting up a homeless camp.
Thread was about homeless hiking from shelter to shelter. Setting up a camp or or taking up a shelter for many days is different subject.
Oops, I'm confused. Now we have two or three threads running of homeless. Sorry.
kayak karl
08-05-2012, 13:06
maybe everybody should walk to the nearest church and put food in the pantry. since homeless is on your mind ;)
Hairbear
08-05-2012, 22:16
WoW you all got philosophical over night - not a lot to do huh - go hiking!
just got back from off trailing.homeless isue was on my mind all day.isnt open debate a powerful thing.
Hairbear
08-05-2012, 22:24
maybe everybody should walk to the nearest church and put food in the pantry. since homeless is on your mind ;)
there it is right there......+1
rocketsocks
08-06-2012, 00:33
maybe everybody should walk to the nearest church and put food in the pantry. since homeless is on your mind ;)Leave some, 5 years ago, I was taken some....Truth! :( but things are better now.....and not a bad idea at all.......:sun
It is a good idea.
Many people donate food to pantries near the holidays, but people need food year round, not just at thanksgiving and easter. I will be picking up a few extra things when I go shopping today.
This is my local food charity: the soup is worth going for - it's really good - www.foodnotbombs.net/georgia.html
rocketsocks
08-06-2012, 11:58
And since were all in a giving mood, and for those that can, don't forget to donate blood.....it's a good thing.
pheldozer
08-06-2012, 12:44
how about the homeless people that bring their unleashed dogs with them on the trail?!:-?
kayak karl
08-06-2012, 14:05
It is a good idea.
Many people donate food to pantries near the holidays, but people need food year round, not just at thanksgiving and easter. I will be picking up a few extra things when I go shopping today.
you will surprised to find out how low they are right now. one big difference is no school lunches.
Drybones
08-06-2012, 14:27
I wonder how many people would have a different attitude towards the homeless if they spent a few weeks in thier shoes?
Hairbear
08-06-2012, 19:47
so what do you say guys and gals since our emotions about the homeless might have hurt some feelings we should turn it to something good lets all go to the store on payday and buy a little something to give at the food pantries.im in how about you.
greenmtnboy
08-06-2012, 20:33
I used to connect to farmers and donate tons of fresh produce to the needy through soup kitchens and food banks; IMO what the needy have need of is better nutrition, exercise, and work.
Unfortunately many stereotypes still prevail if people *look* homeless with untrimmed beards or if they are odiferous. That use to be the standard now everyone must smell like they just had a shower with Irish Spring and put on fresh from the wash clothes.
Common tripe I hear is that there is no use to helping the homeless gypsys, the drunk, etc., because they will just fall back into the same condition anyway.
kayak karl
08-06-2012, 20:36
Unfortunately many stereotypes still prevail if people *look* homeless with untrimmed beards or if they are odiferous. That use to be the standard now everyone must smell like they just had a shower with Irish Spring and put on fresh from the wash clothes.
that explains the quarters they throw in my coffee on the boardwalk in AC :)
WingedMonkey
08-06-2012, 20:38
I'm not saying that food pantries aren't a service to the community (I use to raise funds for a local one), they certainly are.
But homeless folks don't have much use for them.
More useful to homeless population is prepared meals/community kitchens.
Hairbear
08-06-2012, 21:38
I'm not saying that food pantries aren't a service to the community (I use to raise funds for a local one), they certainly are.
But homeless folks don't have much use for them.
More useful to homeless population is prepared meals/community kitchens. do food pantries require an adress to qualify
kayak karl
08-06-2012, 22:15
do food pantries require an adress to qualify
in Gloucester County, NJ, lets say you lose job, then home and you need to move in with mom and dad with your wife and three kids you ARE HOMELESS. without the love of your family you would be on the street. you would be allowed to use the pantrys and get county funds (food, some cash and medical). to qualify for these funds you would be put in a job search program. where you are staying may even qualify for utility help. these homeless fall through the cracks and many time they don't know what is available. drug and alcohol programs are available and if you are in it and you test dirty you stop getting funds :sun
our church does not ask for address unless we are delivering cooked food :)
the local YMCA (a friend's venture) serves one meal a month and has a weekly food, clothing and window fans give away. funded heavily by ACME Inc.
any questions please PM
as involved as i am, i still WILL NOT feed the homeless on the trail :)
WingedMonkey
08-06-2012, 22:30
do food pantries require an adress to qualify
Not that, I mean most food pantries are stocked for home preparation where clients still have a stove and refrigerator.