PDA

View Full Version : Bums



Mother Natures Son
05-17-2010, 19:19
In my travels on the trail, I have have ran into serveral homeless persons. Years ago, the AT made a big things about having its ridgerunner (and others) run folks off the trail who lived there. In the past few years, there seems to more and more of these folks living on the trail. What has changed? Is this a sign of our changing economy or other social reasons? Does anybody remember "the family" - they lived off and on the trail for several years with several small children? The main question is Why do people choose to live on the trail for an extended period of time?

trailangelbronco
05-17-2010, 19:27
The Ridgerunner's job was downsized and he is living on the trail.

Bearpaw
05-17-2010, 19:29
I'd feel MUCH more comfortable being homeless on the AT than in some city. I'd also probably retain more dignity that way too.

Hikes in Rain
05-17-2010, 19:31
It's safer on the trail than being homeless in the city. More resources, as well. It makes sense to me.

modiyooch
05-17-2010, 19:36
Why do you say there are more resources on the trail as opposed to the city?

Hikes in Rain
05-17-2010, 19:57
Well, there are the shelters, of course. Better water sources. (I say that with no real experience in being homeless, city or otherwise). If you know how, more wild edibles to be gathered, easier if you're not having to make miles. Firewood would be easier to gather.

I'd think you'd still want to hit a town here and there, do some day labor, and get some supplies. Hunter/gatherer can be a tough, rather brutish life.

Tin Man
05-17-2010, 20:06
We came across a shelter bum a couple years ago. It was March in CT, looked like he was planning to stay a spell, had an illegal fire going and he begged for food. Instead of stopping for a snack, we quickly moved on.

modiyooch
05-17-2010, 20:11
Well, there are the shelters, of course. Better water sources. (I say that with no real experience in being homeless, city or otherwise). If you know how, more wild edibles to be gathered, easier if you're not having to make miles. Firewood would be easier to gather.

I'd think you'd still want to hit a town here and there, do some day labor, and get some supplies. Hunter/gatherer can be a tough, rather brutish life.The homeless that I am familiar with stay at shelters such as the Salvation Army, eat at Soup Kitchens, and recipients of Christian Outreach ministries. In order to stay at the shelter, one must pass an alcohol and drug test.

Hikes in Rain
05-17-2010, 20:49
All good stuff, I should think. Just speaking for myself, though, I know that even with marginal equipment, I'd be more secure and confident in the woods. (Shoot, I hiked with marginal gear most of my life!)

warraghiyagey
05-17-2010, 20:52
I'd feel MUCH more comfortable being homeless on the AT than in some city. I'd also probably retain more dignity that way too.
Well said. . . :)

fiddlehead
05-17-2010, 21:37
I guess when we hit the trail, we are all homeless in a sense.
I have been looked upon as a homeless person while thru-hiking many times in many places.
I know many others who say the same.
We give up our jobs, homes, cars, and most of our possessions to hike.
I don't know that it's a bad thing.

emerald
05-17-2010, 22:11
You have indicated before you believe there is a difference between a hiker and a bum. Do you no longer believe what you posted previously?

Blissful
05-17-2010, 22:32
A tent is a great home. :)

My son lived in his car for 4 months. Because he wanted to...

emerald
05-17-2010, 22:38
A tent is a great home. :)

Good point! A tent doesn't need to be registered, inspected or require gas to operate. I've never heard of anyone who died in a tent crash.

DapperD
05-17-2010, 22:44
In my travels on the trail, I have have ran into serveral homeless persons. Years ago, the AT made a big things about having its ridgerunner (and others) run folks off the trail who lived there. In the past few years, there seems to more and more of these folks living on the trail. What has changed? Is this a sign of our changing economy or other social reasons? Does anybody remember "the family" - they lived off and on the trail for several years with several small children? The main question is Why do people choose to live on the trail for an extended period of time?I believe it very well may have something to do with these hard, different, and difficult times that many are going thru. I remember reading I believe on the Web that there was a significant increase in people attempting/commiting suicide(very sad) in the countries national parks due to these hard times. The story indicated that these unhappy souls were going/returning to places that at possibly a different, happier time in their lives had given them great joy in life. So I think there is a possibility that people who have lost their family, job, loved ones, etc... are winding up in wilderness/park like settings, as they are subsequently "drawn there" due to this subconscious memory of
previousely happier times, or simply because of the great beauty and joy these wilderness settings invoke .:-?

sbhikes
05-17-2010, 22:45
Are there really more homeless bum alcoholic types living on the AT? Or are you just responding to the one post that appeared today about seeing a homeless guy in a shelter?

It seems to me that if you are truly homeless, it would be easier to live in town. There's a ready supply of people to panhandle from. There are places to get food. There's a tribe of others like you. You don't have to walk up big mountains and can get out of the weather.

Living on the AT would work better for people receiving a monthly government check and who are mentally strong, not addled by illness or substance abuse, and making a conscious decision to live on the trail because they love the trail. To actually hike the trail, you'd have to keep putting in a change of address card so you can pick up your check at the next post office. It would take enough mental awareness to handle this logistic, not to mention the logistics of finding water, walking to shelters and going into town to buy food. Otherwise, if you were a typical homeless person, I would think you might try a shelter for a little while and give up on it, since money, food and booze are easier obtained in town.

Bearpaw
05-17-2010, 22:52
You have indicated before you believe there is a difference between a hiker and a bum. Do you no longer believe what you posted previously?

There is a certain percentage of thru-hikers (albeit small) that are bums. There are a decent percentage of homeless folks out there who I would not categorize as bums, just folks doing what they feel best to maintain a degree of independence during hard times. Just saying.

East Coast Alex
05-17-2010, 22:58
In my travels on the trail, I have have ran into serveral homeless persons. Years ago, the AT made a big things about having its ridgerunner (and others) run folks off the trail who lived there.

In the past few years, there seems to more and more of these folks living on the trail. What has changed?

Why do people choose to live on the trail for an extended period of time?



What I think is the extremely unfortunate demise of the noble institution of homesteading in this country is partly, if not largely responsible for this problem. Allow it once again, and this particularized problem, along with the problem as a whole, will likely decrease. Life flows from natural resources, and it provides for all human needs, and many (if not most) of out wants. Allow homesteading-type access to natural resources, and you give all people the ability to provide for their needs and wants.



As to the question of why some gravitate specifically to the trail, one can only speculate based on reasonable assumption, since I don't think anyone is polling all of these folks to find out their reasons, from the horses mouth. I'd speculate that anybody who would gravitate towards the trail is not likely your "average" homeless person. Maybe some are, but it seems a reasonable assumption that when a person is homeless, they may (if possible) gravitate towards the element they are most familiar with, to aid in their survival.

A guy who lived in the city all his life may stay in the city, as he knows the "ins and outs" of it, and knows where to find a meal. A guy who has grown up with an appreciation of nature, and maybe was even a hiker, camper, or other outdoor enthusiast may naturally gravitate towards the trails in times of dire, as they may feel most comfortable there insofar as they might believe that that is their best shot for survival.

Just as with the city guy being familiar and comfortable with that city environment, the outdoor type may look towards the great outdoors as a means of survival, since ultimately, that is where the natural resources are, and that is where all consumer products originate from. Going right to the source is a very wise move, provided one has the skill necessary to know how to harness and extract certain resources to survive off Natures abundance.

Unfortunately, we live in a time where that skill to subsistence live that man once had not long ago, has somewhat fallen by the wayside due to societies shift towards extreme division of labor, such that even the more educated outdoor enthusiast and survival types may have a difficulty subsisting without having to rely on that terrible crutch of dependence on others for their consumer good needs and wants. And so, try as many homeless people might to survive off nature (which is probably part of why they seek out the trail), it's often a more difficult task than they bargained for, and they may end up begging for food (though I do not believe that was their original intention. I think they headed towards the trail to survive, but then just realized how hard it was).

Appalachian Tater
05-17-2010, 23:00
Social Security and other "government checks" can be direct deposited into an account through electronic transfer. Much safer and more convenient whether or not you are homeless.

Homeless people are people who don't have homes. They are not necessarily alcoholic men. There are plenty of homeless women and especially children. You just are more likely to see the bum sitting on the bench in the park or passed out under a pile of dirty blankets in a cardboard box over a grate and recognize him as homeless. Most of those stereotypical homeless guys have some mental problems beyond any form of drug addiction and frequently medical problems as well. Can't hold them in a facility against their will unless they are a danger to themselves or others.

Besides, when you say "money, food and booze are easier obtained in town" it sure sounds to me like you are talking about hikers rather than homeless people.

TIDE-HSV
05-17-2010, 23:45
Unfortunately, we live in a time where that skill to subsistence live that man once had not long ago, has somewhat fallen by the wayside due to societies shift towards extreme division of labor, such that even the more educated outdoor enthusiast and survival types may have a difficulty subsisting without having to rely on that terrible crutch of dependence on others for their consumer good needs and wants. And so, try as many homeless people might to survive off nature (which is probably part of why they seek out the trail), it's often a more difficult task than they bargained for, and they may end up begging for food (though I do not believe that was their original intention. I think they headed towards the trail to survive, but then just realized how hard it was).

That pretty well echoes my thoughts. A while back there was a multi-page thread about living on the trail, and while there were a few idealists, most realized that a hunter-gatherer type survival on the trail was not a realistic possibility. In fact, a good case can be made that, for that type of existence, one should locate away from the trail. Also, hunter-gatherers range from semi to totally nomadic, because of the depletion of resources from staying put. So, someone who is genuinely homeless who gravitates - for whatever reason - to a particular shelter, and who doesn't have unusual financial resources, is going to be forced to beg for food, and it that doesn't work, to steal. Of course, hikers, at least most hikers are far from being mobile larders. It all adds up to an unhealthy situation for the homeless person and for the hikers encountering him and no amount of romanticizing can make it otherwise. There are just more and better resources for help in town.

Graywolf
05-18-2010, 01:35
The homeless that I am familiar with stay at shelters such as the Salvation Army, eat at Soup Kitchens, and recipients of Christian Outreach ministries. In order to stay at the shelter, one must pass an alcohol and drug test.

Here in Dallas, they dont give drug/alcohol test.. I know that because I have worked in one.. I know several good homeless people that are down right good citizens that are down on their luck. They dont do drugs, and they dont drink..One of them told me he would much rather be homeless in the Mountains then in the city.. At least in the Mountains there is much less chance of being murdered whereas on the city streets, it is pretty hard time..You could get stabbed or shot around the next corner..

And Christain Outreach minsitries.. Thats a joke too.. All they do is take food to some one, maybe take them to church, MAYBE!!! But thats it!! Every church around here I know, Thats all they do.. If you want to help some one, Help that person get off the street, and into a job, if you cant or wont help, SHUT UP!!! and STOP COMPLAINING!!

Graywolf

fiddlehead
05-18-2010, 02:17
You have indicated before you believe there is a difference between a hiker and a bum. Do you no longer believe what you posted previously?

I am not sure what a bum is.
I know what a hiker is.
Sometimes the two get mixed up by many.

I guess the OP has to tell us what criteria they used to determine that the person was less than them.

I have lived off the grid in a few places. Seen people who appeared homeless all over the world yet many were fit and seemed happy. Does that make them less than me? Maybe only in the opportunities they had in their life.

modiyooch
05-18-2010, 07:16
Here in Dallas,
And Christain Outreach minsitries.. Thats a joke too.. All they do is take food to some one, maybe take them to church, MAYBE!!! But thats it!! Every church around here I know, Thats all they do.. If you want to help some one, Help that person get off the street, and into a job, if you cant or wont help, SHUT UP!!! and STOP COMPLAINING!!

GraywolfThe key words in my comment were "the homeless that I am familiar with" I live in Hickory, NC, not Dallas.

modiyooch
05-18-2010, 07:21
All good stuff, I should think. Just speaking for myself, though, I know that even with marginal equipment, I'd be more secure and confident in the woods. (Shoot, I hiked with marginal gear most of my life!)
gear is one thing, but I think the main factor would be food. We do have our share of the homeless that stay in the wooded areas of town instead of the shelter for various reasons, some legit; some not.

restless
05-18-2010, 07:51
To a lot of people, I might be considered homeless. To the government, at least the Veterans Administration, I am homeless. But first and foremost, I am a hiker. For the past twelve years, I have worked in various locales building the very trail that you hike on. Most of those jobs were seasonal, so when those jobs ended, where did I go? To a trail to go hiking. Sometimes I would hike for a few days and move on to another trail. Other time I would hike for weeks or months. I rarely spent more than one night at the shelter, if I stayed there at all. I never "spare changed" off of others. I always took care of my own needs and unless you took the time to talk to me, you probably never knew I was homeless. I just found it easier to live on the trail while hiking, than living in town with nothing to do and no place to go. I'm not a bum, I'm not a creep, I'm just a hiker without a home. It was my choice because of financial situations. I feel much more at home in the woods than I do in town. I feel safer in the woods than I do in town.
By judging others and their abilities simply due to their lack of a home, you create an isolationism that we try to desperately avoid on the trail. The ones who look most suspicious are usually the ones that you need to least worry about. If someone on the trail gives you the creeps than by all means move on. If you feel unsafe in any situation or in anothers presence, move on. Hopefully though you have at least talked to them long enough to at least get a name. Some time you may need their help. You masy need MY help. But if you didn't take the time to get to know who I am much less introduce your self, well.....................................
I've rambled on enough.

TIDE-HSV
05-18-2010, 08:18
I believe you. I also believe you are very much the exception...

d.o.c
05-18-2010, 08:20
Id rather be a homeless guy on trail than in a city...after i spent time in miami saw fights over beer and vodka....i saw a dude collecting cans this was on phish lot....lots of cans a nother homeless dude just walks up and punchs him clear in the face and tkes his cans....i never saw anything as wrong as miami.. cops didnt do a thng.....if i was homeless ill see u on trail.well ill see ya out there anyways but still..

Darwin again
05-18-2010, 08:37
Benton Mackaye intended the Appalachian Trail as a place people could seek refuge and solace from the alienation of the mechanized, industrial, consumer culture.

And so they are. Rich or poor.
You might say it's a new approach to the problem of living.

(Read his paper on the subject here. (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4914753/k.C511/History.htm))

JAK
05-18-2010, 08:55
Those that hike or camp, hike or camp because they want to, and because their personal situation might not be great, but it would not be much better if they didn't. Isn't that more or less the same for all of us?

I think most of us share the same problem in that we either have the money but not the time, or the time but not the money, to do whatever it is that we want to do. I think there is a continuum on the trail between one extreme, like a person living on and off the trail year round without any personal savings or income, and a person doing a thru-hike with personal savings and investment income, time off from work, and work or retirement income to return home to. Most people are probably somewhere in he middle, perhaps towards the upper end but perhaps with some debt, or less retirement savings and job and income security than they should, in an ideal world, yet they make the personal choice to hike anyway, because there situation would not be much better if they didn't.

What is changing? I am not sure. Perhaps at some point we will have to change or political-economic system for environmental reasons, and live more minimalistically, but until there is a total global collapse and depression and rebuilding of our economy and political system, I think people that choose to live more simply will continue to be marginalized, arguably to the point of violating their basic human rights.

After all, on a trail or in a park, out in nature as it where, how does one decide who is a bum, and who isn't?

modiyooch
05-18-2010, 09:14
I think "bum" is the wrong title for this thread.

warraghiyagey
05-18-2010, 09:16
I think "bum" is the wrong title for this thread.
That's good cuz it's "bums" . . . :D

modiyooch
05-18-2010, 09:18
I think "Bums" is the wrong title for this thread.

warraghiyagey
05-18-2010, 09:18
Agreed. . . :p

modiyooch
05-18-2010, 09:18
That's good cuz it's "bums" . . . :Doops, got it confused with the other thread.

warraghiyagey
05-18-2010, 09:20
They're pretty much the same thread from what I've seen. . .

earplug94
05-18-2010, 09:20
What is the difference between a bum and a thru-hiker?

Gore-Tex

So there. :)

earplug94
05-18-2010, 09:23
I think it should be entitled- not "Bums". But, "Moochers" on the trail. I got so tired of some folks constantly tagging along and asking for this and then asking for that. I believe in giving. But, it was almost parasitic at times. That was the only problem I had. But, I don't know if the word bums covers this human trait with certain folks. Everyone is different. Just didn't like that component of certain hikers.

modiyooch
05-18-2010, 09:42
They're pretty much the same thread from what I've seen. . .nah, there is a way of simplifying and living on the trail without living off other hikers.

Hikes in Rain
05-18-2010, 09:45
gear is one thing, but I think the main factor would be food. We do have our share of the homeless that stay in the wooded areas of town instead of the shelter for various reasons, some legit; some not.

I agree, food would be the main issue. That's why I mentioned stopping off in villages and towns for a day or two of labor, which could possibly turn into something better. You can get a lot of good food cheap, if you're not concerned with getting someplace fast. Simple but good. Rice, beans, pastas, flour to make breads, that sort of thing. Takes some preparation and cooking, which is why it doesn't necessarily make good hiking food.

We have the same sort of homeless that camp here, too. Like I and others have said, I think you could keep your dignity far better in the woods.

Adayak
05-18-2010, 10:00
Like many of you mentioned, I think people who grow up in rural areas might feel more accustomed to being a bum on the trail than in some large city like New York. There are so many stories you see on the news or videos on Youtube where people just fight bums or even kill bums for no reason. You're much safer on the trail or in the wild with the bears than you are in the back alleys of New York.

Blissful
05-18-2010, 10:09
And Christain Outreach minsitries.. Thats a joke too.. All they do is take food to some one, maybe take them to church, MAYBE!!! But thats it!! Every church around here I know, Thats all they do.. If you want to help some one, Help that person get off the street, and into a job, if you cant or wont help, SHUT UP!!! and STOP COMPLAINING!!

Graywolf

What's a "joke" is people who throw stones at others without facts. I happen to know of people (and they are trained counselors or others) working tirelessly in Bridge ministries and other outreaches to help those with addictions or mental / emotional issues. This is so they CAN keep a job that's offered them (and give them a desire to work as well, since many don't even want to do that) and use the money earned to make a living and not feed an addiction.

if you do want to help, training on these issues is important so you know how to help the person in the best way possible. Sometimes throwing them a job isn't the answer either.

Miner
05-18-2010, 15:28
And Christain Outreach minsitries.. Thats a joke too.. All they do is take food to some one, maybe take them to church, MAYBE!!! But thats it!! Every church around here I know, Thats all they do.. If you want to help some one, Help that person get off the street, and into a job, if you cant or wont help, SHUT UP!!! and STOP COMPLAINING!!
Graywolf

You are talking about a Church that has a feed the homeless program or a donation can drive. A Christian Outreach ministry to the homeless is a ministry whose purpose is based around helping the homeless. They usually run a shelter, feed , offers job counseling (and other kinds of counseling as some need other help including alcohol etc) as well as chapel services (usually located in downtown districts where the homeless normally hang out). There are some that specialized in women/children who often have different needs (abuse etc) then the homeless men. Most have strick policy's about curfew and substance use while onsite that many don't want to obey (some have issues with authority) and thus not every homeless person wants to stay in them and prefers sleeping on the street. I've volunteered at some of the ones we have here in LA as we have a large homeless population due to the nice year round weather. Even the ones that aren't there because of drugs/alcohol have some issues to worked out before they can land and keep a job.

ragincajun
06-18-2010, 12:40
well said except for those who actually own a home ior rich enough to pay 6 months rent for their apartment ahead of time wich is a very small % of renters were all homeless and jobless many of us have less money on us than say a homeless person living in park in city or in edge of woodline near a town or city but working a job to save for apartment again it would suprise you how many fully employed clean cut looking people there are in citys that are homeless and way better off than typicL THRU HIKER

Dogwood
06-18-2010, 14:32
And Christain Outreach minsitries.. Thats a joke too.. All they do is take food to some one, maybe take them to church, MAYBE!!! But thats it!! Every church around here I know, Thats all they do.. If you want to help some one, Help that person get off the street, and into a job, if you cant or wont help, SHUT UP!!! and STOP COMPLAINING!!

Graywolf

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I can't speak about what goes on in Dallas, but it is Christian Outreach Minisitries, like the Salvation Army and Young Men's Christian Association(YMCA), etc., who are some of only a few groups WHO DO place themselves on the frontlines in assisting the homeless population.

You say stop complaining and start helping - THEY DO! If you expect Christian churches to shut up - they will not! And, they help not just by bringing someone homeless to church, which seems to be a problem to you, but by housing, feeding, clothing, offering job training, connecting with or offering medical and mental health services, offering or connecting to drug abuse counseling, offering parenting classes to homeless families, offering other life skills management techniques, inspiration, etc. to those who are homeless.

It sounds like you are only seeing the religiosity side of bringing someone who's homeless to church. A church can be, and I believe was really meant to be, a place for those to organize so they can reach out to assist those who have issues with material things or have physical, mental, and, yes, even spiritual issues.

Lately, it seems a favorite past time for some is to bash all that is labeled as Christian!

Doctari
06-18-2010, 15:05
The first time I have said this in a public forum, but for me to thru hike, short of winning the lottery, one very awful thing will have to happen, I will involuntarily become single. My first task (Sorry, I DO have it planned, I'm over 50 it is allowed) is sell ALL of my non hiking possessions. I will then be officially "Homeless" and a "Bum". I will hike. That is what I will do.

With that said, I think I'm a little more,,,,,, tolerant,,, or "accepting" may be a better word, of those who "live on the trail" than I used to be. AND, if I had a young family & lost it all, I can't think of a better place to try to recover. The job market may be a bit scarce along the trail, but likely you could earn enough to survive, with no house payments, utilities & etc, maybe you could even get ahead,,, some.

At home, I spend about $5.00 a day on ME, at work, just on daily supplies not transport to/from it's $20.00 / 24 hr shift. On the trail I really only average (again, not counting travel to/from) less than $8.00 a day, & the longer I'm out there, the lower the average goes.

Edie
06-18-2010, 16:05
I sometimes wish my home was on the AT especially after paying my mortgage every month.

mudhead
06-18-2010, 16:59
The first time I have said this in a public forum, but for me to thru hike, short of winning the lottery, one very awful thing will have to happen, I will involuntarily become single. My first task (Sorry, I DO have it planned, I'm over 50 it is allowed) is sell ALL of my non hiking possessions. I will then be officially "Homeless" and a "Bum". I will hike. That is what I will do.

With that said, I think I'm a little more,,,,,, tolerant,,, or "accepting" may be a better word, of those who "live on the trail" than I used to be. AND, if I had a young family & lost it all, I can't think of a better place to try to recover. The job market may be a bit scarce along the trail, but likely you could earn enough to survive, with no house payments, utilities & etc, maybe you could even get ahead,,, some.

At home, I spend about $5.00 a day on ME, at work, just on daily supplies not transport to/from it's $20.00 / 24 hr shift. On the trail I really only average (again, not counting travel to/from) less than $8.00 a day, & the longer I'm out there, the lower the average goes.

http://www.powerball.com/

If you tag it, please share.:)