View Full Version : wearing a backpack right - the fit
longhiker
05-24-2010, 01:53
this is something basic I haven't resolved in several years.
How much do your backpacks press against your lower back and where?
I'm asking because there seem to be slightly different ways of wearing my backpacks.. I can use the shorter torso length ones or just by wearing the hip belt higher to get the backpack's bottom well above my tail bone.
In another config, the backpack presses against my lower back, just above my tail bone. This config has less weight on my shoulders but once I doubled over from a sharp shooting pain during a hike -- I think it caught a nerve in some bad way.
Anyone else with such experience? Any suggestions about how / where the backpack should and should not press on your back or shoulders would be welcome, even if it is a personal thing for you.
I always keep the waist belt high enough to prevent any restriction to my leg movement.
For more options try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumpline
I have been working with a tump set-up the past 5 years.
To date I have 3 different set-ups, for 3 different pack types, external, internal, and waist pack with day pack.
The attempt is to eliminate, as much as possible, the weight attributed to your shoulder straps.
The waist belt is usually kept high on the iliac crests of your hips; high enough to eliminate leg restriction from your waist belt.
Your head/neck muscles and waist belt handle the bulk of the load in a tump set-up.
But, one can also re-adjust, as you need, to distribute the load to the shoulders for a while, should you so desire.
My latest set-up is with a waist pack, tumpline, day pack.
It attains the lightest pack weight with the, back air-flow, similar to that of an external frame set-up.
Works for me, but, continually tweaking. :sun
RollingStone
05-24-2010, 10:38
Every pack fits the body different, and everybody can't where the same pack.
I fit packs professionally. Generally speaking for the shoulders, you should be feeling pressure at the front of the shoulder on the chest, not on top.
Hip belts depend the brand. If it's an Osprey, the center of the belt should be at the top of the hip (Iliac Crest). All others should generally rest, just over the edge of the crest.
You should really visit an experienced pack fitter to give you a hand in finding out if the packs you currently have are sized correctly for you. If they are, they can help you adjust it correctly and show you how to maintain a proper adjustment while moving down the trail.
longhiker
05-24-2010, 10:38
How heavy is the backpack you use with your tumpline suspension?
I'm not sure I'm ready to use my neck muscles for anything.. but I do think I'll try wearing the hip belt even higher. At the moment, I have the top of my hip bones about mid-way in the hip belt and it usually works.
I tend to develop (somewhat mild) back pain / discomfort easily and am trying to tweak the fit..
longhiker
05-24-2010, 10:43
Every pack fits the body different, and everybody can't where the same pack.
I fit packs professionally. Generally speaking for the shoulders, you should be feeling pressure at the front of the shoulder on the chest, not on top.
Hip belts depend the brand. If it's an Osprey, the center of the belt should be at the top of the hip (Iliac Crest). All others should generally rest, just over the edge of the crest.
You should really visit an experienced pack fitter to give you a hand in finding out if the packs you currently have are sized correctly for you. If they are, they can help you adjust it correctly and show you how to maintain a proper adjustment while moving down the trail.
That was helpful actually - eps. the part about where the pressure should fall.. I do use an Osprey Exos.
I can get the shoulders to feel great (fit exactly as you say). My fear is that at the waist, the pack does something like this picture below (taken from http://worldstogethertravel.com/healthy-travel/backpacking.htm)
How much do your backpacks press against your lower back and where?
I'm asking because there seem to be slightly different ways of wearing my backpacks...... In my experience I find this to also be the case.
Anyone else with such experience? Any suggestions about how / where the backpack should and should not press on your back or shoulders would be welcome, even if it is a personal thing for you.
My different packs can certainly fit differently based on differences in brand, model, design, torso and waistbelt sizes, etc. but the same pack can also fit differently depending on: how I've packed it(changes the center of gravity of the pack when you put heavier gear low/center/high), how much wt is in it, how closely my carrying wt matches the wt carrying range for which the pack was designed, how I have adjusted it, for how long I'm wearing the same pack, how old the pack is, my hiking style(how and where I'm walking), and probably some other things.
All of these things can effect how my pack rests on my lower back.
I usually go on long distance hikes. Unless I'm carrying a light load(under 15 lbs) or even a heavier load but for a short time I like to have most of the total wt on my hips, as I think most backpackers want and which is the way most packs are designed, to transfer most of the carrying wt to the hips. With a very light load I feel I can afford to carry more wt on my shoulders(top front of my chest). My neck muscles have gotten stronger as I've hiked more but in general I don't like to carry my pack wt with undue strain on my neck; to me, it's a sign that something isn't right.
I also like to keep an air space between my lower back and the pack. To assure I start out with this airspace and have most of the wt on my hips I
largely unloosen all my straps(shoulder, load lifters, etc, but not compression straps), put on my pack loosely, shimmy my pack to rest high on my hips(I mostly accomplish this by shrugging my shoulders up higher), cinch my hip belt/waist strap rather tight(at this pt all my pack wt is on my hips), then start cinching/adjusting the rest of my straps, typically adjusting shoulder harness next. Then I tweak my hipbelt just slightly and make a final adjustment to my shoulder straps. Sounds complicated, and maybe it is, but when you do it repeatedly over wks and months of hiking it becomes second nature.
Longhiker, BTW, thanks for that link. I never hear it exactly described or diagnosed that way but in the article in 1) the recommendations given are exacly what I also find helpful in my own hikes.
2009 150 mi hike with tump and Kelty internal frame, 10 days food, 2L water = 55 lbs.; pack was weighed on hanging scale.
2010 set-up, day pack weight 17 lbs., waist pack and tump weight = 8 lbs.
I don't have any photos, yet, of the current set-up.
No water or food, so I've eliminated 5 lbs., if you allow 2lbs./day food and 5 lbs. water.
2010 I am hoping to attempt Isle Royale, again, with the new gear. :sun
The Unknown Hiker
05-24-2010, 13:15
This has worked well for me on past hikes: my goal is to try and distribute the pack weight so that 60% is on my hips and 40% on my shouldars (it's an approximation).
Put on the hip belt first. Then the shouldar belts. Then the chest strap. Finally, don't forget the loaf lifters. During the day every so often adjust the straps to shift the load to different locations of your body.
When you take your pack off in the evening, loosen all the straps. Every time you put your pack on, your straps should be re-adjusted to the proper fit.
The hip belt should near or on top of the hip bone. These are my personal suggestions only.
longhiker
05-24-2010, 13:42
I
largely unloosen all my straps(shoulder, load lifters, etc, but not compression straps), put on my pack loosely, shimmy my pack to rest high on my hips(I mostly accomplish this by shrugging my shoulders up higher), cinch my hip belt/waist strap rather tight(at this pt all my pack wt is on my hips), then start cinching/adjusting the rest of my straps, typically adjusting shoulder harness next. Then I tweak my hipbelt just slightly and make a final adjustment to my shoulder straps. Sounds complicated, and maybe it is, but when you do it repeatedly over wks and months of hiking it becomes second nature.
This is similar to how I put on my pack.. (an Osprey Exos).. I'm down to 25 lbs now but haven't hiked with this lighter load yet. Used to carry 35 lbs (I'm 5' 11" , 140 lbs, so this was a lot for me). I really like keeping the hip belt high up as well -- very comfortable on the shoulders but worried if this will give back problems when I hike.
How about some particular questions about fit that I'd love to hear what others do? It's personal but would help me understand the landscape of possible fits that I can try out..
1. Load lifters / top stabilizers (the straps attaching to the top of the shoulder strap) -- how tight? I like to way over-tighten them -- they transfer weight off my shoulders very well.
On the other hand, it makes the shoulder strap kink up behind my shoulder -- i.e it folds up and doesn't make contact with the back of my shoulder. I find it comfortable this way but the Arc'Teryx website says this is precisely the wrong way to wear it! (I use an Osprey pack though).
(Look at Fig 4 in the first link)
http://www.trailstobuild.com/Articles/Backpack_fitting_guide.htm
http://www.arcteryx.com/pack-fit.aspx
2. Pressure on shoulders -- RollingStones gave a great tip on this : The pressure should be on the chest in the front, not on your shoulders. This seems to work for me.
3. Hip belt position relative to illiac crest / belly button.
4. Position of the end of the pack on your lower back / lumbar area.
5. Following manufacturer specification on Torso Length -- my torso length is almost but under 18". Osprey says I need a Small Exos but a Medium is more comfortable on the shoulders (the Small is maybe better on the back if I tighten to load lifters to the max - ZERO length.)
6. Finding local professional pack fitters -- where exactly do you find those? I've bought packs at 3 different local stores (2 EMS branches + 1 Blue Mountain Ridge) and while the salespeople were helpful, I don't feel like I learned more than generic fitting advice.. ('does it hurt anywhere?', 'wear the hip belt on your hip bone..').. and I've had to return packs to each of these stores and buy one with a different torso length / different pack.
(Yes, I did walk around the store with weights for a while..)
+1
REI just had their anniversary sale.
I saw there was pack fitting. I know the value of pack fitting. When he said he was the Osprey 'rep' I asked for a fitting of the Osprey Exos 46. He checked: medium frame, medium waist best. The store has a fitting template, for each brand of pack now. The waist belt on that Osprey pack has an opening, a slot, along the waist belt at the hip bone. He said it is centered on the hip crest. I asked for 30 lbs, which is about the maximum. I was considering the Osprey Exos 46 Multiday pack for winter. He loaded it up. I walked around, knelt, squatted to look at a lower shelf in the store, walked around more.
The best pack fitting I ever had was Dana Big Horn and Dana Bridger at a small mountainclimbing and cross-country ski shop in Walnut Creek, CA and again at Great Falls, MT. First, he fit the pack empty. Then, he loaded the pack and made small adjustments.
Here, he first put the weighted pack on, the waist belt was no longer centered on the hip crest. It was much lower. Pulling on the shoulder straps, cinching the waist belt quite snug, adjusting the chest strap across to the top of the chest near the neck and pulling the somewhat wide shoulder straps in toward the center, put the load inside the bones of the shoulder, where the load belongs, there, and distributed down to the waist belt. Properly adjusted, near the maximum weight for that pack, the pack did not bounce against the top of my back, the pack did not throw me off balance in any position or movement I described above.
This is how a pack should fit. Either your pack is the wrong length for your torso, the hip belt does not fit you properly, the shoulder straps are too loose, you did not use the chest strap properly, if load lifters, they are not properly adjusted or you have more than the maximum weight on that pack than it is designed to carry.
Next time you are in a store, look at those features. If there is someone there, who knows how to do the fitting, ask for a fitting and have them load the weight in the pack you are interested in carrying. If the store doesn't have bags of labeled weight, then say you will be back with the contents of your pack. I have done this before.
The fact the load-lifters were at zero, and the other things you mention, should be telling you this pack is not for you. The guideline you have linked are only the beginning of pack fit. Ifr you have a pack with pack stays bent to shape, use what they sent or have them fit you. I had that kind of pack once. They bent the pack stays just right but I found out I prefer not to have weight distributed down my rib cage. Stays should transfer weight into the waist belt. I want weight distributed between across the top of my chest thru the channel in front of my shoulders and on the hip crest running down my legs, which are the largest and most powerful muscles.
I have no doubt you need a pack fitting. But find someone trained to do pack fitting. You pull on the adjustment straps. They tug the straps just right.
Most of all, you need the right brand of pack for you.
I find people trained in pack fitting, in general, where the more expensive brand of packs are sold or at a specialty shop, like the specialty of mountain climbing. They carry big packs, and big iron. They carry small summit packs.
I did not purchase this particular pack: 1. the shoulder straps need to be more narrow and have almost an S-curve to fit me well. 2. Standing up again from kneeling (tie your shoe, whatever) the back of my head hit the lid pack on top.
This only means Osprey Exos doesn't fit me.
It is my experience, some brands fit and other brands do not fit me.
I like Deuter, it doesn't fit me. There is a lot to like about Osprey, it doesn't fit me.
Happily, the relatively inexpensive REI Lookout pack, on sale, fit me. I had bought it from the sale bin.
My other packs have cost more, some less.
Lowe fits me. Metolius Rope Master shoulder straps fit me best (the shoulder straps are sold separately, I am told).
There is no way the weight of the pack should sit in the small of your back. The weight carried is distributed across the top of your chest and on a properly fitted and padded waist belt right for you, or not padded, depending on what is at and around your hip crest so weight is distributed through the pelvis and on down the legs.
The fit is the thing: once you settle on the maximum weight you expect to carry, work from there. Not from brand name, brand popularity, or Best of in a magazine.
RollingStone
05-24-2010, 21:24
Longhiker -
Get to an REI store. There are two in New Jersey. East Hanover and Marlton. Take your current pack/s with you. They will help.
Second, I find it hard to believe the pack itself would cause your spine to arch inwards.
Regarding Torso, Ospreys have a different torso measurement than other packs. Say Gregory or REI. This is due to the way that Ospreys are designed to sit on the Iliac crest.
Fitting is not rocket science. As Connie explained, a pack should always be fit empty first. Some people just cannot make an Osprey work for them, yet a Gregory does. Or an REI, etc. When I fit a pack I listen to what the person is going to do with their pack first. Then I measure torso to get an idea on size, then I grab what I think is the most suitable pack, without regard to price.
Regardless of brand, size, cost, if the pack doesn't fit properly, it's not worth selling. Period. In your case, I think you just need to get someone willing to spend some quality time with you and I honestly believe an REI store will help you do just that.
Here is a link to Arcteryx. They give an awesome overview of proper pack fit. Pay attention especially to shoulder shots. http://www.arcteryx.com/pack-fit.aspx
Oh.. on the load lifters. If you pull them tighter to you, as in over tighten, then you need to compensate on the shoulder straps by slightly loosening and vice versa. You'll find that during the day, your straps and fit will loosen requiring you to re-adjust. These are the most common and easiest adjustments you can make.
In addition, if you aren't loading the pack properly, your fit will go to crap in a heartbeat. Make sure you're loading light at the bottom, heavy towards your back getting lighter outward and upward as you go. Excessive weight on top can really destroy the fit.
Some very good posts here by all! As Conniie said don't underestimate the benefit af a qualified professional backpack fitting. Excellent spot on post RollingStone. I could repeat all the sage advice, but one thing I will say again is that I agree with RS when he says, "I find it hard to believe the pack itself would cause your spine to arch inwards."
If something is amiss in how the pack is sitting on your lower back it may not only be about the design, size, or fitting of the pack, or any of the other factors I mentioned that can effect how my packs rest on my lower back. You may want to examine your body position with your pack on and take a closer look at your physiology when hiking. That link you gave Longhiker may warrant another examination, especially pt # 1.
longhiker
05-25-2010, 15:15
I'd actually posted the same Arc'Teryx link RollingStone suggested to me in an earlier post. It was something on the Arc'Teryx website that confused me -- they say do NOT over-tighten the load lifters to the extent that the shoulder straps bunch up.
I find that to be most comfortable at the shoulder with 25 lbs in my Osprey Exos, I need to do exactly that -- have it bunch up. I do loosen the shoulder straps a bit as RollingStones suggested... and then the pressure is entirely on my chest as RollingStones said it ought to be.
The picture on the Arc'Teryx website with the shoulder straps wrapping the entire shoulder, front and back, just looks painful to me.. it'd apply pressure to the top of my shoulder, pinching them back a bit.
Anyway, I'll try more outfitters but I've also been looking at Aarn packs.
In particular the Aarn Mountain Magic 55 L .. it's about 3 lbs, just 8 oz more than my Exos.
http://www.aarnusa.com/pack_mountainmagic.htm
Mountain Wildman
05-25-2010, 15:37
I looked at Aarn before I bought my pack, The balance thing seems very interesting and maybe more comfortable than a traditional back pack, The one thing that seems could be a negative is when you have to do any type of climbing, The front pack is not in the best location if you have to climb or squeeze under a blow down, You could remove it I'm sure, just a small inconvenience I guess.
I think there may be a Whiteblaze member or two that has one of these, Would be good to hear some feedback from them on Aarn.
RollingStone
05-26-2010, 09:22
I'd actually posted the same Arc'Teryx link RollingStone suggested to me in an earlier post. It was something on the Arc'Teryx website that confused me -- they say do NOT over-tighten the load lifters to the extent that the shoulder straps bunch up.
I find that to be most comfortable at the shoulder with 25 lbs in my Osprey Exos, I need to do exactly that -- have it bunch up. I do loosen the shoulder straps a bit as RollingStones suggested... and then the pressure is entirely on my chest as RollingStones said it ought to be.
The picture on the Arc'Teryx website with the shoulder straps wrapping the entire shoulder, front and back, just looks painful to me.. it'd apply pressure to the top of my shoulder, pinching them back a bit.
Anyway, I'll try more outfitters but I've also been looking at Aarn packs.
Since the Exos has a fixed suspension, you may find that to be the problem. If you are having to pull the load lifters all the way forward, then there is definitely a fit issue. It could be that your shoulders are too large or small for the shoulder harness on the pack.
On the Arcteryx link (sorry I missed your post) while the video shows it completely laid over and contouring, that's not an accurate depiction. No pack will lay over that perfectly, but 90% are pretty darn close. Once it is laid over you adjust those load lifters to lightly bring the the load off the top of the shoulder so the weight is on the hips and with slight pressure at the front of the shoulder.
I think your real issue here is the pack itself, and most likely the shoulder harness included with whatever size you purchased isn't the right fit for your body.
You may want to consider looking at an Osprey or Gregory with interchangeable harnesses and belts that will help dial it down to your body's proper fit.