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Daydream Believer
05-31-2010, 22:09
I got back this past weekend from doing a 7 day section hike from Hogpen Gap to Winding Stair Gap. At Plumorchard Shelter there was an apparently abandoned domestic cat hanging out. He was not tame enough to go right up to but he was not all that afraid of people and was definitely hanging out around the camp...probably hoping for some food also. I did not see one mouse in that shelter but clearly a domestic cat does not belong in the forest like that.

I wondered if anyone could advise me on who to report this to to get the cat humanely trapped and a home found? I'd even be willing to give him a home on our farm if he could be captured.

Sierra Echo
05-31-2010, 22:15
You can purchase a humane trap yourself and put some food in it.
I think its AWESOME that you are willing to give it a home! :clap:jump

Panzer1
05-31-2010, 22:18
if he's cleaning all the mouse out of the shelter maybe he should be allowed to stay.

and yea, it would not be a bad idea to toss him a few scraps to supplement his diet.

Panzer

Sierra Echo
05-31-2010, 22:21
Remember all critters love peanut butter. This is good if you don't want to take cat food! Of course you could end up with more then you bargained for!

le loupe
05-31-2010, 22:24
I wondered if anyone could advise me on who to report this to to get the cat humanely trapped and a home found? I'd even be willing to give him a home on our farm if he could be captured.

See thread - http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62491

Daydream Believer
05-31-2010, 22:25
I wish I could go trap him but I live 8 hours from Franklin one way. I was hoping some sort of Park Service folks might be equipped to deal with the trapping and getting him out of there; and then I could go pick him up. I just felt so bad for the poor cat. He looked really lonely.

He was doing an awesome job on the mice but he'll also hunt birds and stuff..which is not good... and I'd hate to think of him trying to survive a tough winter out there.

Sierra Echo
05-31-2010, 22:26
Its a long time winter though. Cats are smart. He will have plenty or critters to go after.

Sierra Echo
05-31-2010, 22:27
I mean to say: its a long time til winter though.
I have NEVER seen a forum that won't let you edit. its bizarre and annoying!

ShakeyLeggs
05-31-2010, 22:30
I mean to say: its a long time til winter though.
I have NEVER seen a forum that won't let you edit. its bizarre and annoying!

Most likely someone will claim him before winter sets in.

As for the editing. That is a feature you get with a paid membership.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=donating_member

JJJ
05-31-2010, 22:32
Cat's are exotic alien predators.
They'll keep the shelter mice at bay no doubt, but songbirds too.

Appalachian Tater
05-31-2010, 22:48
Cat's are exotic alien predators.
They'll keep the shelter mice at bay no doubt, but songbirds too.

Yes, the cat will probably be fine but it could kill hundreds of birds and other small animals every year and so it should be trapped and removed but some feral cats are just too smart to be caught.

generoll
05-31-2010, 22:54
oh good, maybe we can get the Forest Service to relocate the cat.

Blissful
05-31-2010, 23:14
Might check with the closest SPCA to see if someone there can help if you really want to give the cat a home.

Desert Reprobate
05-31-2010, 23:15
If it wasn't for that cat we'd have a lot more of those pesky song birds hanging around the shelter.

Erin
06-01-2010, 00:11
If the cat is not afraid of people and hanging around the shelter, it is not feral, it is dumped or a stray. I hope you can find a solution. I have two dumped cats, once they are fixed, they are wonderful pets.

TIDE-HSV
06-01-2010, 00:31
If the cat is not afraid of people and hanging around the shelter, it is not feral, it is dumped or a stray. I hope you can find a solution. I have two dumped cats, once they are fixed, they are wonderful pets.

Speaking of strays, we're on our second. Our first was a beautiful little coal-black, part ragdoll, longhair who brightened our lives for 18.5 years and passed a year ago. Now, we have a hefty white/gray Maine Coon who'll never be a true indoor cat, but who loves coming in to eat and be brushed. Both held/hold the rodent population down outside in our wooded three acres like champs. You either like cats or you don't. They can tell. I grew up without them and with some scorn and prejudice. By that, I missed a helluva lot...

Trailweaver
06-01-2010, 01:29
I was there this past weekend too, and saw the cat. Word has it that he's been there a while. By definition he is feral - he won't let anyone near him to be picked up. The only way he got there is that someone took him there and put him out - which constitutes animal cruelty in my book. He didn't go there by himself, that's for sure. I've dealt with ferals in the past, and the only way to help this cat is to take in a humane trap (and it would take some doing, as they are heavy empty and even heavier with a cat inside) and set it and then wait for the cat to go inside. I think it could be done, but it would take a lot of work. Then the cat would need to go to the vet to be checked out, and ultimately it would take a lot of patience, love, and work to (maybe) be able to turn the cat around.

I've been haunted by it ever since I was there, and wish I could do something. . . but I couldn't get the trap there by myself, and I'm not sure I could do it with someone else, either. But it does need to be done - the cat doesn't have a good life there - he's poorely fed and probably has some parasite issues as well.

If anyone could do it, I would nominate you for sainthood!

JAK
06-01-2010, 07:32
Probably a happier cat than most.

Lone Wolf
06-01-2010, 07:47
a .22 rifle will fix the problem

Gray Blazer
06-01-2010, 07:56
a .22 rifle will fix the problem

Anti-freeze in a saucer. (Just kidding.)

What's wrong with a cat hanging out. He/she will prolly become some bobcat's beotch.

Jim Adams
06-01-2010, 07:58
a .22 rifle will fix the problem
That's a mighty big spoon ya got there son!:D

Of all people to comment here, I really don't want my answer to be misunderstood.
Once a feline has lived strictly outdoors for time without DIRECT human interaction, they are usually in such a wild state that they will never again be a "pet". Yes, the cat is a problem living in he wilderness for alot of reasons but I am afraid that the only way that the problem will be solved will end with the destruction of the animal.
BTW, I'm shocked that a fox or coyote hasn't gotten the cat yet...they HATE cats!

geek

JAK
06-01-2010, 08:05
Domestic dogs can become a serious problem if they go feral, because they can mix with coyotes and wolves and the offspring are less frightened of people, and generally more dangerous and less well behaved. Not so sure about feral cats. They are pretty well behaved in the wild.

They might not be indigenous to North America, but they are pretty much a native species now. As someone suggested, they usually get eaten, but some do likely survive. The Maine Coon Cat is an adaptation to our climate. Not sure how many of them are feral today, but I would guess there might be afew. I am not sure if they can successfully interbreed with bobcats. I suppose that depends somewhat on your definition of success. ;)

Gray Blazer
06-01-2010, 09:23
I am not sure if they can successfully interbreed with bobcats. I suppose that depends somewhat on your definition of success. ;)

I'm not an expert on that although I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

When I lived in the country in Wacahoota, FL, our cats would get dragged off by a bobcat every oncet in a while. When they came dragging back a few weeks/months later, they looked rather abused.

JAK
06-01-2010, 10:14
So I did a little googling. Apparently there are lots and lots of cat hybrids, and most of them seem to be fertile, even in the case of 38 chromosomes cats with 36 chromosome cats. So I guess this sort of thing is really nobody's business but the two species involved.

JAK
06-01-2010, 11:20
Here's to all the ungulates!
Some are odd, but most are nuts
Scratching a living on roots and snails
Scraping along on their fingernails.

Here's to all the feral cats!
Growing up as little brats
A head that hangs, a heart that slinks
From rough liasons with Canadian Lynx.

Gray Blazer
06-01-2010, 11:23
A head that hangs, a heart that slinks
From rough liasons with Canadian Lynx.

That's what I'm talkin' about.

Manx, Lynx and Bobcats.

Man, our cats would come dragging in and looking very rough!

bulldog49
06-01-2010, 11:39
I say just let it be. It's obviously become well adapted to it's new environment.

Tenderheart
06-01-2010, 12:18
a .22 rifle will fix the problem


What *********!!!!!

litefoot 2000

Lone Wolf
06-01-2010, 12:19
What *********!!!!!

litefoot 2000

what? is a .22 too small? too big?

mudhead
06-01-2010, 12:33
what? is a .22 too small? too big?

I thought you liked cat scratch fever.

bulldog49
06-01-2010, 12:33
What *********!!!!!

litefoot 2000

Send me your address and I will send you some cash to buy a sense of humor. :rolleyes:

Jim Adams
06-01-2010, 12:33
what? is a .22 too small? too big?

Might need those 9 rounds from that .45 to stop it!:D

geek

BobTheBuilder
06-01-2010, 12:34
Harness that sympathy!

Let the feral cat at the shelter be. Formerly domestic cats are a lot more capable of living in the wild than formerly domestic dogs. It might be all right, but it will have a much shorter life expectancy, like about any animal in the wild. Harness that decency and sympathy and help out some of the homeless or unwanted pets that are not 8 hours away. They need help as much as the one in the woods, maybe more so.

Grinder
06-01-2010, 13:34
eat thai!!

TD55
06-01-2010, 13:47
Catch the cat or kill it. The hypocrisy here is blinding. Same people who defend the cat are the ones who defend the mice when that discussion goes on. That cat is killing every bird, baby rabbit, squirrel, frog, snake and other living animal it can get its paws on. Responsible, reasonable adults should not put up with the childish, weak and stupid obsessions and mental illness of kitty cat lovers.

Daydream Believer
06-01-2010, 14:02
Catch the cat or kill it. The hypocrisy here is blinding. Same people who defend the cat are the ones who defend the mice when that discussion goes on. That cat is killing every bird, baby rabbit, squirrel, frog, snake and other living animal it can get its paws on. Responsible, reasonable adults should not put up with the childish, weak and stupid obsessions and mental illness of kitty cat lovers.

I rather kick the ass of the moron who abandoned that cat to live in the forest to begin with. It's not the cat's fault that it is trying to survive in an environment it is not native to. I certainly agree it needs to be removed for it's own good as well as the good of the local wildlife, but I just don't see why killing it is the first choice of so many people...and as usual the jerk responsible for the cat's situation will get no punishment whatsoever for this act of neglect and cruelty. :(

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 14:04
So, TD, people who like kitty cats are weak, stupid, and mentally ill? :D

Just out of curiousity, how do you think your last post makes YOU look?

Let's just say that the words "responsible" or "reasonable" aren't the first ones that come to mind.

Gray Blazer
06-01-2010, 14:08
I rather kick the ass of the moron who abandoned that cat to live in the forest to begin with.

Watch who you're calling a moron.

What should we do with all the people who abandon those hikers who have to live in the forest?

People, the cat will be fine ... or not.

Daydream Believer
06-01-2010, 14:13
Watch who you're calling a moron.



Sorry...I missed your tag line! ;)

Seriously, I'm not losing sleep over the cat but I really think we can't blame the cat for the mess. It is there because a person left it there. I deal with a lot of animals...make my living with horses in particular...and they don't have free choice. People do though.

I was just hoping to help the cat by adopting it if it could be captured and to see it brought out of the forest where it does not belong. It could live a very productive and useful life as a mouser on my farm. I did not expect to start such a debate but was only looking for suggestions on resources to see if the cat could be removed and rehomed.

Gray Blazer
06-01-2010, 14:15
Sorry...I missed your tag line! ;)

Seriously, I'm not losing sleep over the cat but I really think we can't blame the cat for the mess. It is there because a person left it there. I deal with a lot of animals...make my living with horses in particular...and they don't have free choice. People do though.

I was just hoping to help the cat by adopting it if it could be captured and to see it brought out of the forest where it does not belong. It could live a very productive and useful life as a mouser on my farm. I did not expect to start such a debate but was only looking for suggestions on resources to see if the cat could be removed and rehomed.

Good on you!!

JAK
06-01-2010, 14:16
I don't think a feral cat has an unfair advantage, or is doing anything un-natural. It's not the same as most dogs, or humans, that run amock chasing and wounding or killing with misguided or displaced instincts. Cat's tend to fit in to natural struggles, with their own fair share of suffering. True, they can cause extinctions of certain species on remote islands, but they are more or less native here, though they don't do so well in the woods as others. In the woods, treat them as any other wild beast. Leave them be unless they pose a serious threat. Always consider the option of doing nothing.

Gray Blazer
06-01-2010, 14:17
People on this wbsite will debate anything.

Watch this ;).

Hey, people, the sky is blue!!

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 14:19
I've seen plenty of cats at or near shelters, and I don't think most of them were left there or abandoned there.

I think in many cases they are strays who found their own way there from nearby homes or communities. You'd be surprised how close most shelters are to roads or houses.

Hopefully, some of these poor creatures will find their way home again, tho this is perhaps an unrealistic expectation. In the meantime, they deserve sympathy and kindness, the same as one would treat any other animal.

TD55
06-01-2010, 14:21
So, TD, people who like kitty cats are weak, stupid, and mentally ill? :D

Just out of curiousity, how do you think your last post makes YOU look?

Let's just say that the words "responsible" or "reasonable" aren't the first ones that come to mind.

Some of them take their love of cats to the extreme. They end up with dozens of cats that they can not care for. They may also put a biased and prejudicial value on cats over other animals. Also, it flames this discussion up a bit and to answer your curiosity, why?

JAK
06-01-2010, 14:25
To leave it be or take it home depends on how feral it is. Some wild cats you cannot get close to, and would be better off left alone. If it comes right up to you that would be different. It really should be left up to the cat. In places where they overbreed, they need to be controlled, but in the woods they tend to be at a competitive disadvantage and nature eventually sorts things out on her own. Still, not the worst life for a cat, but catch it if you can, I guess.

JAK
06-01-2010, 14:26
Some of them take their love of cats to the extreme. They end up with dozens of cats that they can not care for. They may also put a biased and prejudicial value on cats over other animals. Also, it flames this discussion up a bit and to answer your curiosity, why?People take all sorts of instincts to un-natural extremes.

Blissful
06-01-2010, 14:30
I did not expect to start such a debate but was only looking for suggestions on resources to see if the cat could be removed and rehomed.


This is WB. Debates keep the forum interesting for some. :sun
I've actually seen a bit more activity debate-wise here. But its pet oriented.
Curious.

kanga
06-01-2010, 14:31
why does anybody actually give a ****? and why do people feel like the have to control nature. yes the cat kills birds. big whoop-ti-do! that doesn't make it a menace. that's nature. hello? leave it alone.

bulldog49
06-01-2010, 14:33
Catch the cat or kill it. The hypocrisy here is blinding. Same people who defend the cat are the ones who defend the mice when that discussion goes on. That cat is killing every bird, baby rabbit, squirrel, frog, snake and other living animal it can get its paws on. Responsible, reasonable adults should not put up with the childish, weak and stupid obsessions and mental illness of kitty cat lovers.


Sure, and while you're at it kill every fox, coyote, weasel and bear in the area that will eat every bird, baby rabbit, squirrel, frog, snake and other living animal it can get it's paws on. :rolleyes:

I guess you are unware that in nature there exist something called a food chain and that predators serve a useful role in controlling the populations they feed upon. I think nature needs to find a predator to feed on certain people who don't need to contribute to the gene pool their misplaced sense of compassion.

TD55
06-01-2010, 14:35
I mentioned hypocrisy in my post. I just cracks me up that people demand special status for the cats that KILL AND MAIM wildlife while they themselves munch away on pork chops and cow flesh.
The cats on the AT and the one in question are and is an invasive species that is destroying the natural environment in the area which it lives. So go ahead and lecture about being nice to the cat while it kills off every creature it can and a daily basis while you eat dead pigs and cows.

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 14:38
Actually, TD, on much of the A.T., man is essentially an invasive species and potentially causes more harm than to the local environment than cats could possibly do.

Are you similarly troubled about this? Cuz truth be told, human beings that frequent shelters and campsites do a lot more harm than the occasional stray cat.

TD55
06-01-2010, 14:41
Sure, and while you're at it kill every fox, coyote, weasel and bear in the area that will eat every bird, baby rabbit, squirrel, frog, snake and other living animal it can get it's paws on. :rolleyes:

I guess you are unware that in nature there exist something called a food chain and that predators serve a useful role in controlling the populations they feed upon. I think nature needs to find a predator to feed on certain people who don't need to contribute to the gene pool their misplaced sense of compassion.

Those animals eat what they kill. Cats kill for sport. They may eat some of what they kill, but they kill for fun and play. The food chain balances out itself. Key word, balance. The cat throws the balance out of whack. A house cat or feral cat is not part of nature.

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 14:48
Actually, feral animals do indeed eat much of what they kill, at least they do if they don't want to starve.

A feral animal, by definition, is one that is undomesticated and cannot rely on an owner for support, care, or food.

So your last post is simply wrong. Your ignorance of cats is matched only by your dislike of them.

JAK
06-01-2010, 14:50
I do believe in killing stray dogs or coydogs, but feral cats behave more naturally. Eastern Coyotes are slowly becoming a serious problem, even though they behave naturally. They have a decent pelt, so maybe that's the answer. People should make better choices on ecological grounds rather than, whatever.

JAK
06-01-2010, 14:51
Those animals eat what they kill. Cats kill for sport. They may eat some of what they kill, but they kill for fun and play. The food chain balances out itself. Key word, balance. The cat throws the balance out of whack. A house cat or feral cat is not part of nature.
I think you might be mistaken here. Feral cats behave quite naturally.

Pedaling Fool
06-01-2010, 14:53
Those animals eat what they kill. Cats kill for sport. They may eat some of what they kill, but they kill for fun and play. The food chain balances out itself. Key word, balance. The cat throws the balance out of whack. A house cat or feral cat is not part of nature.


Actually, feral animals do indeed eat much of what they kill, at least they do if they don't want to starve.

A feral animal, by definition, is one that is undomesticated and cannot rely on an owner for support, care, or food.

So your last post is simply wrong. Your ignorance of cats is matched only by your dislike of them.
I agree, once an animal becomes wild it does not have the luxury to kill for fun. Nature doesn't allow for much play time.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:00
I agree, once an animal becomes wild it does not have the luxury to kill for fun. Nature doesn't allow for much play time.That is probably true of dogs also. As long as they are not also fed by humans they probably eat all that they can kill, and conserve their energy between kills. The problem with feral dogs and coydogs is more that they are less afraid of humans than they need to be, so that is why they need to be killed. Shelter cats, well, I think nature eventually sorts them out.

TD55
06-01-2010, 15:01
Actually, feral animals do indeed eat much of what they kill, at least they do if they don't want to starve.

A feral animal, by definition, is one that is undomesticated and cannot rely on an owner for support, care, or food.

So your last post is simply wrong. Your ignorance of cats is matched only by your dislike of them.

The cat in question in this case does not appear to be feral. I appears to be a domostic that got left at the shelter or found its way to the shelter.
As far a feral cats go, you are the one that is ignorant about their feeding behavior. When food is scarce they will eat the entire kill. However, they will wipe out an entire nest of birds or rabbits and leave much of it to rot when these food sources are abundant. Once they wipe out that source, they move on. Unlike animals natural to the environment, they can be very wasteful.

Pedaling Fool
06-01-2010, 15:04
That is probably true of dogs also. As long as they are not also fed by humans they probably eat all that they can kill, and conserve their energy between kills. The problem with feral dogs and coydogs is more that they are less afraid of humans than they need to be, so that is why they need to be killed. Shelter cats, well, I think nature eventually sorts them out.
I don't care if you kill them all:eek:;)

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 15:06
TD:

In a previous post, you told us that people who liked cats were obsessive and mentally ill.

Now you're calling other people "ignorant".

Stop while you're behind, unless of course I'm missing something and you're merely trying to be funny. :D

Pedaling Fool
06-01-2010, 15:09
The cat in question in this case does not appear to be feral. I appears to be a domostic that got left at the shelter or found its way to the shelter.
It's out there and not being fed by it's owner, that makes it feral.


As far a feral cats go, you are the one that is ignorant about their feeding behavior. When food is scarce they will eat the entire kill. However, they will wipe out an entire nest of birds or rabbits and leave much of it to rot when these food sources are abundant. Once they wipe out that source, they move on. Unlike animals natural to the environment, they can be very wasteful.
I don't think you have a very healthy appreciation for how tough it is to be out there without food on your back and money in your wallet, knowing that a town is X-miles away full of people eager to trade your money for their food.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:12
Interesting thread.

TD55
06-01-2010, 15:15
You are making stuff up Jack. I was trying to point out that some people could become obsessed to the point of mental illness in relationship to cats.
I called you ignorant in regards of the feeding habits of feral cats, not "other people".
As far as trying to be funny. Go eat a pork chop.

TD55
06-01-2010, 15:21
It's out there and not being fed by it's owner, that makes it feral.


I don't think you have a very healthy appreciation for how tough it is to be out there without food on your back and money in your wallet, knowing that a town is X-miles away full of people eager to trade your money for their food.

Wrong, twice.
By your definition the day after a cat is abandoned on the trail it is feral.
I been poor on the trail.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:21
People wanting to kill animals is also sometimes to the point of mental illness, and beyond.

kanga
06-01-2010, 15:24
Those animals eat what they kill. Cats kill for sport. They may eat some of what they kill, but they kill for fun and play. The food chain balances out itself. Key word, balance. The cat throws the balance out of whack. A house cat or feral cat is not part of nature.
i'm sorry, what? everything living is part of nature. what are you talking about?

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 15:25
Nice talking with you, TD, as always.

But this is getting kinda tedious. If you wanna continue making yourself look foolish here, by all means have it it, you certainly don't need any more comments of mine to ratify this.

You do fine all by yourself.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:25
Threads like this are useful because it helps you think about stuff from different angles.
Like what is feral, and what isn't, and what is natural, and what isn't, and when it doesn't matter either way, because there might be some other issue, or not. When a cat comes up to a human and rubs against it and the human feeds it or takes it home, is that natural behavior, or not? Hard to say.

kanga
06-01-2010, 15:26
Threads like this are useful because it helps you think about stuff from different angles.
Like what is feral, and what isn't, and what is natural, and what isn't, and when it doesn't matter either way, because there might be some other issue, or not. When a cat comes up to a human and rubs against it and the human feeds it or takes it home, is that natural behavior, or not? Hard to say.
that may be the deepest, most profound comment you have ever made!:D

Pedaling Fool
06-01-2010, 15:30
By your definition the day after a cat is abandoned on the trail it is feral.

I didn't give a precise definition, but once the animal hasn't had any food it starts realizing that he ain't in Kansas any longer. I feed my cat a couple times a day.

So, just curious, by your definition how long, 1 day, 1 month, 1 year...:rolleyes:

TD55
06-01-2010, 15:33
i'm sorry, what? everything living is part of nature. what are you talking about?

You are of course correct. I meant that the feral cat or whatever it is, is not part of a particular natural environment. I used the word "nature" to discribe the hunk of woods the cat was destroying.

SmokyMtn Hiker
06-01-2010, 15:35
I stayed at Overmountain shelter in Sept. 2008 and about dark appeared a black and white cat. It was very people friendly, looked well fed and no mice trying to get into your pack which is nice.

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 15:37
Over the years, I've seen many a hunk 'o woods on the Appalachian Trail.

Oddly enough, I can't ever recall seeing one that was destroyed by a cat.

I suggest that it is now past time to move this thread to the humor section.

TD55
06-01-2010, 15:39
I didn't give a precise definition, but once the animal hasn't had any food it starts realizing that he ain't in Kansas any longer. I feed my cat a couple times a day.

So, just curious, by your definition how long, 1 day, 1 month, 1 year...:rolleyes:

Feral cats are not the same as abandoned cats. Feral cats are born and raised without human contact. That is the definition of a feral cat. They are born in allys and woods, it doesn't make a difference.

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 15:39
Smoky Mt.:

I was at Overmountain quite recently. You will be pleased to know that both the shelter and the surrounding hunk of woods are in great shape, and that the feline visitation/infestation you described seems to have been fairly benign.

Just thought you'd want to know. :D

Jester2000
06-01-2010, 15:43
People on this wbsite will debate anything.

Watch this ;).

Hey, people, the sky is blue!!

No it isn't. At least, not right here, right now.

SmokyMtn Hiker
06-01-2010, 15:43
Smoky Mt.:

I was at Overmountain quite recently. You will be pleased to know that both the shelter and the surrounding hunk of woods are in great shape, and that the feline visitation/infestation you described seems to have been fairly benign.

Just thought you'd want to know. :D

Thanks for the update, I hope to get back up that way this year to finish a small section I need to complete.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:43
Some cats are definitely more wild than others. Not sure how much is genetic. Mostly nurture I think. I am not sure how much depends on their early years, but that probably makes a huge difference.

We had a cat that came straight from a litter and another that came off the street at a young age. Both were good cats, but the street cat was considerably more wild. It would grab a chunk of meat off your plate and dive and growl under the couch. Both were good at catching birds. Tried the bell thing. Worked on the wild cat but the less wild cat would just shove the strap under one arm so as to make no noise.

I saw some barn cats when I was a kid, and some street cats overseas. Now they were really scary. They would definitely be hard to domesticate. I think any cat can be domesticated if you start with a kitten, and most cats do OK if they return to the wild, except the weaker ones would get killed. I think they can all do ok food wise. Not sure.

Pedaling Fool
06-01-2010, 15:46
Feral cats are not the same as abandoned cats. Feral cats are born and raised without human contact. That is the definition of a feral cat. They are born in allys and woods, it doesn't make a difference.
I'm not much of a stickler for the meaning of words, but that is wrong
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/feral
adj. 1. a. Existing in a wild or untamed state.
b. Having returned to an untamed state from domestication.

2. Of or suggestive of a wild animal; savage: a feral grin.




Just because it was abandoned (which we don't know as a fact) doesn't preclude it from being feral.



.

TD55
06-01-2010, 15:46
Over the years, I've seen many a hunk 'o woods on the Appalachian Trail.

Oddly enough, I can't ever recall seeing one that was destroyed by a cat.

I suggest that it is now past time to move this thread to the humor section.

Mock if you want Jack. Abandoned cats kill wildlife. When the wildlife is killed off in a section or area of woods, no matter how small, that section or area has been to some extent destroyed.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:49
I would agree that cats are not a threat to our natural ecosystems in North America. If they were, the damage would have been done hundreds of years ago, and the woods would still be full of them. It's not like we have been doing a remarkable job keeping them in our houses and our farms and cities.

JAK
06-01-2010, 15:52
There are alot less birds in North America, but that has been the result of pesticides, and glass windows. Also, we ate a few billion passenger pigeons. Can't blame the cats.

generoll
06-01-2010, 15:52
nice mocking, Jack. I haven't noticed any woodlands destroyed by feral cats either. Now a Cat D9 might be another matter.

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 15:53
It has been pointed out TD, that the presence of humans creates far greater, and far more negative impact on shelters and campsites than do cats.

But this doesn't seem to trouble you.

Most wild animals along the A.T. are skittish when it comes to humans and in most cases they want nothing to do with them. They definitely don't want to be around them. What this means is that in many cases, animals shun these areas. By your definition, have these sections of the woods been ruined or destroyed as a result?

Fact is, when it comes to driving away (or threatening) native wildlife, the presence of humans at shelters (or dogs for that matter) has much greater impact than does the occasional stray cat.

This truth is so simple I expect you'll ignore it.

Jack Tarlin
06-01-2010, 15:58
Come to think of it, TD, I've seen hiker's dogs chase and kill native wildlife on many occasions. Squirrels, bunnies, chipmunks, even a couple of fawns. You name it, the dogs aren't exactly particular. (And the dogs all have owners and their own food, so they don't eat their kills either, but let's not even talk about that).

In the interest of fairness and open-mindedness, are we now going to see half a dozen posts from you telling us how invasive and bloodthirsty dogs are helping "destroy" our woodlands? You gonna go for two hours about the threat to wildlife from dogs and why something needs to be done about it?

I mean you wanna be consistent here, right? :D

Nah, that's probably asking too much.

Pedaling Fool
06-01-2010, 16:13
Feral cats are not the same as abandoned cats. Feral cats are born and raised without human contact. That is the definition of a feral cat. They are born in allys and woods, it doesn't make a difference.


I'm not much of a stickler for the meaning of words, but that is wrong
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/feral
adj. 1. a. Existing in a wild or untamed state.
b. Having returned to an untamed state from domestication.

2. Of or suggestive of a wild animal; savage: a feral grin.




Just because it was abandoned (which we don't know as a fact) doesn't preclude it from being feral.



.
Like I said I'm not much of a stickler for definitions and this is why:
According to the below definition I'm right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral
A feral organism is one that has escaped from domestication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication) and returned, partly or wholly, to a wild (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife) state. The introduction of feral animals or plants to their non-native regions, like any introduced species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduced_species), can disrupt ecosystems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosystems) and may, in some cases, contribute to extinction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction) of indigenous species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_species). However, returning lost species to their environment can have the opposite effect, bringing damaged ecosystems back into balance.

HOWEVER, according the this definition TD55 is correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Feral cats are descended from domestic cats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_cat) but are born and live without human contact. Any environment that sustains people can sustain feral cats, who are known to have thrived in urban, suburban, and rural areas in all parts of the civilized world. They are not to be confused with wild cats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_cats) or with stray cats (alley cats). Wild cats are descendants of wild species. Stray cats are homeless or abandoned domestic cats, but unlike feral cats, have had prior contact with humans and therefore exhibit temperament similar to that of a domestic cat.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat#cite_note-0)



Someone thought it necessary to make a whole new term for feral cats;)




So I guess you got me on that one TD55


:sun

K2
06-01-2010, 16:17
A current tread is Trap/Neuter/Return, but this normally addresses colonies in an urban environment.

Don't worry about the cat. It has a very short life span, and, to my mind, won't have a significant impact on the environment. As noted earlier, we have a greater impact than one creature ever will.

I got the information (other than my opinion;)) from Wikipedia. You can read the full article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat


Signed K2, the thread killer.:D

Old Hiker
06-01-2010, 16:43
There are alot less birds in North America, but that has been the result of pesticides, and glass windows. Also, we ate a few billion passenger pigeons. Can't blame the cats.

What do you mean "we"? I'm old, but not that old!!! :D 1899 for the last wild one, 1914 for the last one in captivity.

beartripper
06-01-2010, 17:46
This cat will grow bigger in the wild and become a hunting machine. I have heard of
feral cats increasing their wieght of to 18 lbs.

SouthMark
06-01-2010, 18:04
This just in:

The ATC has closed the trail from Hogpen Gap to Winding Stair Gap in order to trap and put down a feral cat that is destroying the wildlife and forest in that area. It has been noted that several bear carcasses have been found and appear to have been killed needlessly by the cat after torturing the bears before finishing them off. Hikers BEWARE!!

Blue Jay
06-01-2010, 18:42
This just in:

The ATC has closed the trail from Hogpen Gap to Winding Stair Gap in order to trap and put down a feral cat that is destroying the wildlife and forest in that area. It has been noted that several bear carcasses have been found and appear to have been killed needlessly by the cat after torturing the bears before finishing them off. Hikers BEWARE!!

That's not very nice. TD just loaded his shotguns in his catmobile and is heading down there. He'll be pissed when he can't find any cats.:eek:

FritztheCat
06-01-2010, 18:42
If the cat were dumped at the shelter by an owner who wanted to rid him/herself of the cat, then the cat is lucky. It could have ended much worse.

Frankly I see more damage done anywhere by humans than cats. The cat may be happy where it is. Who knows? We can project our values and feelings onto this animal (or any other) all day long with nothing gained. Cats are natural hunters, even domesticated ones so this cat is only doing what is natural.

kanga
06-01-2010, 18:50
Oh **** run! The feral cat is here!

Marta
06-01-2010, 19:01
This just in:

The ATC has closed the trail from Hogpen Gap to Winding Stair Gap in order to trap and put down a feral cat that is destroying the wildlife and forest in that area. It has been noted that several bear carcasses have been found and appear to have been killed needlessly by the cat after torturing the bears before finishing them off. Hikers BEWARE!!

Thank goodness I didn't have a mouthful of food when I read this--I'd have to run the computer screen through the washing machine.

Plumorchard Gap was the most mouse-infested shelter I stayed at on my thru-hike. Admittedly that was several years ago, but I'm cheering for the cat!

Desert Reprobate
06-01-2010, 19:50
I can't believe anyone would go to the trouble of carrying a cat all the way into Plumorchard just to abandon it. The cat is doing ok. He does have a fondness for turkey jerky.

JAK
06-01-2010, 20:28
What do you mean "we"? I'm old, but not that old!!! :D 1899 for the last wild one, 1914 for the last one in captivity.lol

Point taken. Sins of the fathers and all that.

Now, about feral children, can you escape that one so easily? :)

Wise Old Owl
06-01-2010, 20:28
Oh here comes a wood spoon to stir the crap up unintentionally.


Yes, the cat will probably be fine but it could kill hundreds of birds and other small animals every year and so it should be trapped and removed but some feral cats are just too smart to be caught.

Yup. sometimes endangered birds.


Might check with the closest SPCA to see if someone there can help if you really want to give the cat a home.

SPCA - makes a determination and destroy's most ferel cats. Period. Been there - oops - I did not do that.


If it wasn't for that cat we'd have a lot more of those pesky song birds hanging around the shelter.

No argument there, ask Emerald.


If the cat is not afraid of people and hanging around the shelter, it is not feral, it is dumped or a stray. I hope you can find a solution. I have two dumped cats, once they are fixed, they are wonderful pets.

What's going on here a Cat Wisperer? Please. Only a rare few can pass.


a .22 rifle will fix the problem

:D


Domestic dogs can become a serious problem if they go feral, because they can mix with coyotes and wolves and the offspring are less frightened of people, and generally more dangerous and less well behaved. Not so sure about feral cats. They are pretty well behaved in the wild.

mixing is very rare - most of the time dogs become a kibble snack for coyotes.

They might not be indigenous to North America, but they are pretty much a native species now. As someone suggested, they usually get eaten, but some do likely survive. The Maine Coon Cat is an adaptation to our climate. Not sure how many of them are feral today, but I would guess there might be afew. I am not sure if they can successfully interbreed with bobcats. I suppose that depends somewhat on your definition of success. ;)

Hmm futher reading.....


I've seen plenty of cats at or near shelters, and I don't think most of them were left there or abandoned there.

I agree.



I think in many cases they are strays who found their own way there from nearby homes or communities. You'd be surprised how close most shelters are to roads or houses.

Hopefully, some of these poor creatures will find their way home again, tho this is perhaps an unrealistic expectation. In the meantime, they deserve sympathy and kindness, the same as one would treat any other animal.


why does anybody actually give a ****? and why do people feel like the have to control nature. yes the cat kills birds. big whoop-ti-do! that doesn't make it a menace. that's nature. hello? leave it alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Cus we (people) ******ed the natural system up some time ago. AND Read futher....

How many feral cats are there?

It’s hard to get an accurate estimate of the number of feral cats in the environment. One estimate puts the number of feral cats in the state of Wisconsin alone at 2 million or more. In some parts of the state, researchers counted up to 114 feral cats per square mile. Another study estimated 500,000 feral cats in Chicago. Though an accurate total eludes us, it’s safe to say there are hundreds of millions of feral cats in North America.
How many birds do feral cats kill?

Again, estimates vary, but even if each cat killed only one bird each year (studies have shown that some cats kill up to 1000 animals each year), it’s clear that hundreds of millions of birds are dying. Add to this the toll taken by roaming domestic cats (pets that are allowed to roam out of doors), thought to also be in the hundreds of millions, and you begin to comprehend the catastrophic effect that Felis silvestris is having on bird populations. If you also consider all the other threats to birds created by humans – habitat destruction, pollution, automobiles, cell phone towers, wind turbines, tall buildings, airplanes etc. – it seems a miracle we have any birds at all.


Read more at Suite101: Feral Cats Kill Birds: The Issue of Feral and Roaming Domestic Cats and the Birds That They Kill (http://birds.suite101.com/article.cfm/feral_cats_kill_birds#ixzz0peQ3gA1F) http://birds.suite101.com/article.cfm/feral_cats_kill_birds#ixzz0peQ3gA1F (http://birds.suite101.com/article.cfm/feral_cats_kill_birds#ixzz0peQ3gA1F)


In the last year I have caught/trapped two (well known to me) feral cats and turned them over to the SPCA to be destroyed. Its now my a small part of my income. Your neighbors (bird lovers) are fed up with people feeding and partially taking care of feral cats without paying for important well needed shots. I collect $195 for capture of feral cats .... I get 5%, and bird lovers are paying for it.

JAK
06-01-2010, 20:45
I would think most feral and stray cats are urban, or suburban, or rural, and not so much in wilderness, but then again there isn't that much wilderness left I suppose.

I think we should accept however, that cats are now part of our natural environment.
So why should we control them in the wild any more than indigenous animals?
If they were a serious problem in the wild, the woods would be over-run with them.

We should focus on reducing cats and dogs in more populated areas. Puppy farms should be shut down. Dogs and cats should not be sold through pet stores, or large scale breeders. Breeding of cats and dogs should be limited and done on a smaller scale. Fixing pets should be more widely practiced and encouraged. But that is dogs. A larger percentage of cats are born as urban and suburban strays. Not sure of the best way to control that population. Might be keeping the rat population down. Not sure.

Wise Old Owl
06-01-2010, 20:54
Right on Jak!

JAK
06-01-2010, 21:01
I have to disagree with the article quoted above that states that domestic cats have no place in the wild. They are essentially the same species as the African Wild Cat, with some variation and mixing with other small cats along the way, but they are essentially unchanged and have ALWAYS existed in both wild and stray and domesticated states. True, they might not be indigenous in North America, but they are certainly native, and have as much 'right' to exist in the wild state as any other introduced species, such as the earthworm.

They certainly need to be controlled, and we are doing a lousy job of doing that, but they have as much right to exist in the wild as any other animal. They are NOT destroying ecosystems. They probably do kill alot of birds, but their population needs to be reduced where there numbers are excessive, not in remote areas where they are essentially part of natural ecosystems, and rather disadvantaged to other predators, except for the constant influx from more populated urban and suburban centres where their population is excessive. It has always been this way. It is more of a problem today simply because we have more urban and suburban centres.

So the real problem is too many humans.

Old Hiker
06-01-2010, 21:12
lol

Point taken. Sins of the fathers and all that.

Now, about feral children, can you escape that one so easily? :)

Oh, don't EVEN go there. My 30 y/0 son and wife are moving back in to my house. :eek: :mad: :(

And thank you so much for bringing up such a painful subject. While you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it? :rolleyes:

Old Hiker
06-01-2010, 21:13
That's not very nice. TD just loaded his shotguns in his catmobile and is heading down there. He'll be pissed when he can't find any cats.:eek:

Can't he check at the nearest cat house? Just askin'. :rolleyes:

Appalachian Tater
06-01-2010, 21:16
Feral cats would not exist in such high numbers in the U.S. if not for domesticated cats and humans. Feral cats do not usually look healthy and happy the way hares or squirrels or beavers normally do. And they are naturalized, not native or natural. They are domesticated animals that have become feral.

And JAK, I do not every remember disagreeing with you about anything before but feral cats DO indeed destroy ecosystems. In Australia in particular, they have already hunted many species into extinction and generally threaten all small animals on the entire continent with extinction.

The biggest danger to the almost extinct Scottish Wildcat (<500 left) is interbreeding with feral cats.

There are many other examples of how they interrupt ecosystems and drive other animals into extinction. I love my kittehs but feral cats are a real problem.

Wise Old Owl
06-01-2010, 21:23
I have to disagree with the article quoted above that states that domestic cats have no place in the wild. They are essentially the same species as the African Wild Cat, with some variation and mixing with other small cats along the way, but they are essentially unchanged and have ALWAYS existed in both wild and stray and domesticated states. True, they might not be indigenous in North America, but they are certainly native, and have as much 'right' to exist in the wild state as any other introduced species, such as the earthworm.

They certainly need to be controlled, and we are doing a lousy job of doing that, but they have as much right to exist in the wild as any other animal. They are NOT destroying ecosystems. They probably do kill alto of birds, but their population needs to be reduced where there numbers are excessive, not in remote areas where they are essentially part of natural ecosystems, and rather disadvantaged to other predators, except for the constant influx from more populated urban and suburban centres where their population is excessive. It has always been this way. It is more of a problem today simply because we have more urban and suburban centres.

So the real problem is too many humans.

Well Jak don't take this to heart, but in my country we have so many feral cats we can't shoot them fast enough as they wipe out ALL the marsupials and rare birds. Even in the back country in the heart of Australia around the Uralu monument the smaller mammals are gone completely to cats in less than 100 years.

So the problem is too many Cat lovers who won't control their CAT behaviors.

rickb
06-01-2010, 21:24
So the real problem is too many humans.

And too few coyotes.

That's changing in many place though.

Appalachian Tater
06-01-2010, 21:32
Most all of the problems with the pollution on the planet and to every species of plant and animal here are due to overpopulation of humans. We are destroying species constantly and may really need the entire library of DNA one day and will regret not having it available. It is really stupid to allow any species to become extinct even if you don't care about them, only what we might get out of them.

JAK
06-01-2010, 21:36
It is rather sad about the Scottish Wild Cat, but it isn't so much being reduced in number so much as being diluted into extinction through interbreeding. That gets into the question of what makes a distinct species. Are all the various wolves and coyotes and dogs actual separate species, or all one superspecies? Same with small cats. There is lots of diversity, and there will alway be some convergence and divergence but all in all, there will always be some reasonable diversity in the small cat populations of the world. The most important thing is to maintain healthy and diverse ecosystems.

There are many ecosystems that have been adversely effected by the spread of cats by humans, but the real problem is the destruction of woods and wetlands, and the spread of large urban and suburban regions around the globe. Domestic cats and dogs are just a small part of that. We do need to reduce their numbers, but more fundamentally we have to reduce our numbers, and we have to do that somehow without losing our humanity in the process. Some folks think it is more green and humane to house humans in large urban centres like the way we raise chickens and pigs, and puppies. I would rather be a feral cat than live like that.

Sierra Echo
06-01-2010, 21:40
This poor kitty is soon going to be blamed as the cause of Armageddon~!

JAK
06-01-2010, 21:49
It is rather amusing to think of that cat going about its business down there without being aware of all this fuss on the internet. I would like to live like that. "But och! I backward cast my e'e, On prospects drear! An' forward, tho' I canna see, I guess an' fear!"

Blissful
06-01-2010, 22:02
SPCA - makes a determination and destroy's most ferel cats. Period. Been there - oops - I did not do that.



Our SPCA here in Charlottesville is a NO KILL shelter. SO it depends on the shelter. But not all do this.
And it is not yet determined whether the cat is feral or not.

Blissful
06-01-2010, 22:03
Most all of the problems with the pollution on the planet and to every species of plant and animal here are due to overpopulation of humans.


Oh man, here we go....

:eek:

Does someone have a "thread down the drain" symbol...? :rolleyes:

weary
06-01-2010, 22:08
This poor kitty is soon going to be blamed as the cause of Armageddon~!
I've been told that something really serious may be going to happen on Dec. 21, 2012. But I've chosen not to spend $7.95 a month to find out just what. But the early hints suggest it may be something more serious than a surplus of feral cats. Could it be Armageddon?

Spokes
06-01-2010, 22:11
........................

JAK
06-01-2010, 22:11
Is there anything wrong with stating the obvious?
This is the century that this matter will be settled, though perhaps not for good.

What is the point of hiking through the woods without pondering such matters, at least some of the time? Other times, perhaps most times, it is better just to hike, but certainly at some point when we get home we should think once or twice about such things before we start up our cars and head off to work, or to the mall.

Sierra Echo
06-01-2010, 22:12
I've been told that something really serious may be going to happen on Dec. 21, 2012. But I've chosen not to spend $7.95 a month to find out just what. But the early hints suggest it may be something more serious than a surplus of feral cats. Could it be Armageddon?

Is it serious enough to compare to Y2K?
You can find out all about 2012 for a dollar at your local red box!

Cool AT Breeze
06-01-2010, 22:17
What is a red box.

JAK
06-01-2010, 22:22
It does seem rather ironic that this thread is going to the dogs. :)

Sierra Echo
06-01-2010, 22:26
What is a red box.

A red box (and some are blue now) are movie rental kiosks where you can rent movies for a dollar. They are usually in the vestables at wally world.

http://www.redbox.com/

K2
06-01-2010, 22:27
It appears that people are almost as passionate about stray cats as they are about dogs in shelters. K2

Cool AT Breeze
06-01-2010, 22:28
A red box (and some are blue now) are movie rental kiosks where you can rent movies for a dollar. They are usually in the vestables at wally world.

http://www.redbox.com/
I don't do movies.

Dogwood
06-01-2010, 23:06
And, I thought I had too much time on my hands and too much to say. You folks make me look like an amateur BSer. All about feral cats? Everything you wanted to know, here at WB! I actually learned some things about feral cats ! Who knew WB was the place to learn about such things.

However, there is light at the end of the tunnel. After much waiting until the last moment, questioning, and re-organizing I have completed my work committments. I just booked my flight to Kalispel MT for 3 wks from today to hit the CDT. YEAHHHH!OHHHHHHH, how I miss the trail! It's calling to me. Meow! Meow! Meow!

JAK
06-01-2010, 23:31
True, cats and other introduced species have wreaked havoc in Australia, and other places, and perhaps some places in North America also. Perhaps in time stronger predators will be out-competed and even lynx and bobcats and cougars diluted into extinction by the constant resupply of less suited cats from human population centres. In a similar way, more wilderness and rural minded and bodied humans are eventually displaced or diluted into extinction, even from places they are otherwise better adapted than the urban intruders, but such has always been the way. Perhaps there is hope that we all carry enough wild genes amongst us, that should we ever reverse the demise of wilderness, there will still be people wild enough to do it honour and justice.



A Pict Song

Rome never looks where she treads,
Always her heavy hooves fall
On our stomachs, our hearts or our heads;
And Rome never heeds when we bawl.
Her sentries pass on – that is all,
And we gather behind them in hordes,
And plot to reconquer the Wall,
With only our tongues for our swords.

We are the Little Folk – we!
Too little to love or to hate.
Leave us alone and you'll see
How we can drag down the Great!
We are the worm in the wood!
We are the rot in the root!
We are the germ in the blood!
We are the thorn in the foot!

Mistletoe killing an oak –
Rats gnawing cables in two –
Moths making holes in a cloak –
How they must love what they do!
Yes – and we Little Folk too,
We are as busy as they –
Working our works out of view –
Watch, and you'll see it some day!

No indeed! We are not strong,
But we know Peoples that are.
Yes, and we'll guide them along,
To smash and destroy you in War!
We shall be slaves just the same?
Yes, we have always been slaves,
But you – you will die of the shame,
And then we shall dance on your graves!

We are the Little Folk – we!
Too little to love or to hate.
Leave us alone and you'll see
How we can drag down the Great!
We are the worm in the wood!
We are the rot in the root!
We are the germ in the blood!
We are the thorn in the foot!

– Rudyard Kipling

kanga
06-01-2010, 23:37
So the real problem is too many humans.

yeah but the humans don't want to hear that so they cry cat

JAK
06-01-2010, 23:39
Yes indeed.

"Weland gave the Sword, The Sword gave the Treasure, and the Treasure gave the Law. It's as natural as an oak growing."

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/557

kanga
06-01-2010, 23:46
You people would be pissed if the dinosaurs weren't extinct. Quit whining about the cats. God or Darwin, either way you choose to look at it , the cats will disappear or evolve/interbreed into something else. Humans are so damn sentmental and possessive over things they, in reality, have no control over.

JAK
06-02-2010, 00:07
It might be interesting to examine why we have such sentiment. What advantage it might give us, or whether it is not some misplaced distortion of some real instinct, once more useful in another age, now forgotten? Perhaps it is nothing more than the survivor guilt of the weak. The strongest and noblest savages amongst us are usually the first to go. The weak survive to vanquish the strong. Is this where such sentiment comes from? The shadow of countless lies. Not the slaughter of mere innocents, but of the truly great and strong.

JAK
06-02-2010, 00:18
I think that might be a large part of it. With civilization, weakness and hypocrisy allow us to survive, because we are more useful and less of a threat to others that way. It has probably been this way to some extent forever. If so then where does the real strength keep welling up from? Where and what is the true source, or have we long destroyed that also?

TIDE-HSV
06-02-2010, 00:50
I think that might be a large part of it. With civilization, weakness and hypocrisy allow us to survive, because we are more useful and less of a threat to others that way. It has probably been this way to some extent forever. If so then where does the real strength keep welling up from? Where and what is the true source, or have we long destroyed that also?

Have you heard of the "Tragedy of the Commons?" If you can digest Hardin, move on to Sherman Arnold's "Folklore of Capitalism..."

Sierra Echo
06-02-2010, 07:19
I don't do movies.

Then I don't suppose I will ask you if you want to go catch one next time I'm in Blairsville.

JAK
06-02-2010, 07:27
Have you heard of the "Tragedy of the Commons?" If you can digest Hardin, move on to Sherman Arnold's "Folklore of Capitalism..."Thanks for those references. The first sounds vaguely familiar, not sure, but the second is completely new to me. I will try and see if I can read up on them, and in them and around them.

Pedaling Fool
06-02-2010, 07:29
I don't do movies either; at best it's mindless entertainment, but usually it's pushing an agenda -- Hollywood sucks!

Sierra Echo
06-02-2010, 07:32
I don't do movies either; at best it's mindless entertainment, but usually it's pushing an agenda -- Hollywood sucks!

I'm not one of those people who do nothing but watch movies. In fact, I rarely ever go see them in theaters. I'm more of an independant movie kinda chick.

JAK
06-02-2010, 07:33
I don't do movies.

Then I don't suppose I will ask you if you want to go catch one next time I'm in Blairsville.

Careful. Some of those movies are feral.

Gray Blazer
06-02-2010, 07:37
I don't do movies.

Definitely a feral post!

Maybe you don't but how about your Dad? :D

Sierra Echo
06-02-2010, 07:43
Careful. Some of those movies are feral.

I try to avoid those types of movies as they are hazard to the ecosystem!

JAK
06-02-2010, 07:49
Those Good Girls Gone Wild movies are some of the worst. The interbreed with movies like "Never Cry Wolf" and "Call of the Wild", and before you know it there is nothing much left but Kevin Costner stuff.

Don't get me started on "Reefer Madness".

Sierra Echo
06-02-2010, 07:57
Those Good Girls Gone Wild movies are some of the worst. The interbreed with movies like "Never Cry Wolf" and "Call of the Wild", and before you know it there is nothing much left but Kevin Costner stuff.

Don't get me started on "Reefer Madness".

I see your into independant cinema too! or something!

Gray Blazer
06-02-2010, 08:02
So ... Girls Gone Wild could also be called Girls Gone Feral? where's Feral Bill when you need him?

Sierra Echo
06-02-2010, 08:03
So ... Girls Gone Wild could also be called Girls Gone Feral? where's Feral Bill when you need him?

It could!!! And thats an even better title!
speaking of feral people, Im off to work. yall have a great day!

SouthMark
06-02-2010, 09:43
Feral cat meets feral seagull

http://www.flixxy.com/seagull-and-cat.htm

JAK
06-02-2010, 09:48
Classic. I did not expect that ending. Maybe some feral movies aren't so bad.

Jester2000
06-02-2010, 10:02
Those Good Girls Gone Wild movies are some of the worst. The interbreed with movies like "Never Cry Wolf" and "Call of the Wild", and before you know it there is nothing much left but Kevin Costner stuff.

Don't get me started on "Reefer Madness".

The worst is when they interbreed with crappy outdoor TV and you get Girls Gone Man vs. Wild.

Sierra Echo
06-02-2010, 15:26
The worst is when they interbreed with crappy outdoor TV and you get Girls Gone Man vs. Wild.

I would watch that!

JAK
06-02-2010, 16:04
I think I have watched that.

generoll
06-02-2010, 16:29
here ya go. problem solved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHf96L5NmYY

Erin
06-03-2010, 23:49
This is priceless. I was gone for a few days and the cat thread went wild. Someone shoud print this out for a book. "Dewey" the book about the library cat made a mint. This is much better.

So how is kitty? Destroyed the ecosystem of Austrailia yet? Eaten 10,00 songbirds? Been shot by a .22? I am still hoping poster, about number 5, can trap it and rescue it.

Jim Adams
06-04-2010, 00:52
I don't do movies either; at best it's mindless entertainment, but usually it's pushing an agenda -- Hollywood sucks!
...yet you've read 146 posts about a cat at a shelter?...doesn't appear to have much mind to entertain. LOL

BTW, Ziggy was 21 lbs. when put to sleep...lots of mice will do that.:eek:

geek

JAK
06-04-2010, 05:35
I think we've established that we need a shelter cat cam.

So who's going to cam the cat?

Sierra Echo
06-04-2010, 09:05
I am blaming that cat for my sinus infection~! *sniff*

K2
06-04-2010, 11:01
Everyone's fighting over Kitty. Kitty may not hear the fighting, but he feels the tension, and it makes him sad :(. He thinks it's his fault you all are mad.

Poor Kitty :rolleyes: .

K2

Spogatz
06-04-2010, 12:51
You know....Kitty poo is the worst thing in the world. If you step in it then it will follow you for many miles while you repeat the phrase "What is that smell?"

Sierra Echo
06-04-2010, 13:05
I would rather step in cat poo then get peed on by a cat!!

Gray Blazer
06-04-2010, 14:17
I am blaming that cat for my sinus infection~! *sniff*

The cat is affecting my basketball shot!!

(or is it the oil spill?)

Czechtrecker
06-05-2010, 07:21
Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but the cat is only there because of the food supply. The mice, hikers feeding it, or both. I seriously doubt it could catch enough birds to sustain itself. Once it depletes the mouse population and if hikers do not feed it, it will move on. Hopefully to the next mouse infested shelter.

Sierra Echo
06-05-2010, 07:35
The cat is affecting my basketball shot!!

(or is it the oil spill?)

Its the cat. Cats love balls.

Wise Old Owl
06-05-2010, 09:14
There are alot less birds in North America, but that has been the result of pesticides, and glass windows. Also, we ate a few billion passenger pigeons. Can't blame the cats.

Old wife's tale - sorry its not true.

Most birds die of lead poisoning and accidents with cars and structures.

http://www.catviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/badkitty.jpg

Wise Old Owl
06-05-2010, 09:24
Oh man, here we go....

:eek:

Does someone have a "thread down the drain" symbol...? :rolleyes:


So what do they do with the unmanagable flea bitten mangy things? Keeping them alive is far more costly...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Nvqzpq9ZfEg/Sa83OJvGDxI/AAAAAAAADi8/vz9eShBf86k/s400/down+the+drain.jpg

JAK
06-05-2010, 11:11
So what do they do with the unmanagable flea bitten mangy things? Keeping them alive is far more costly...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Nvqzpq9ZfEg/Sa83OJvGDxI/AAAAAAAADi8/vz9eShBf86k/s400/down+the+drain.jpgDrop off a Rhodesian Ridgeback.

Gray Blazer
06-07-2010, 11:12
Reading this thread has made me catatonic.

nufsaid
06-07-2010, 13:41
Those that think that cats are useless are wrong. In addition to keeping down the mice population, they can have some entertainment value.

http:feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPWaQKuqENU&feature=player_embedded

K2
06-07-2010, 19:38
Those that think that cats are useless are wrong. In addition to keeping down the mice population, they can have some entertainment value.

http:feature=player_embeddedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPWaQKuqENU&feature=player_embedded


Cats. In Sinks. And Basins (http://catsinsinks.com/)

Tenderheart
06-08-2010, 12:12
What *********!!!!!

litefoot 2000


Why was my comment edited? Could it be because of to whom it was directed? I really want to know.

litefoot 2000

Desert Reprobate
06-27-2010, 15:40
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/9/8/2/4/shelter_cat_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=41671&c=)

Here is a shot of the infamous Shelter Cat

generoll
06-27-2010, 17:05
looks pretty prosperous to me.

Sierra Echo
06-27-2010, 19:20
How sweet!~
I'm glad he is doing well!

bessiebreeze
06-27-2010, 21:38
Thanks for the picture of the Plum Orchard cat. He looks exactly like my cat "Elwood". ( My Elwood is here in Nashville).
You hikers going through there, leave him alone. He will help take care of the huge mouse problem there. Cats can fend for themselves. They don't need people to help them with anything, usually, especially if they are outside cats.

Daydream Believer
06-27-2010, 22:22
I'm glad to see he's still OK. I think he put one some weight since I saw him.

Egads
06-28-2010, 05:37
I'm glad to see he's still OK. I think he put one some weight since I saw him.

wait till winter when the steady food supply drys up :(

Blue Jay
06-28-2010, 08:12
wait till winter when the steady food supply drys up :(

He just goes home. Will you please read a thread once in a while before you post. You sure are named correctly.

JAK
06-28-2010, 15:30
I think the rain must be empathetic
towards all other creatures, including the rocks,
and even things like shelters and cats
and all such things such as those, and thats.

I think that's the way it has to be
the way it finds its way, here and there
the way it touches all things, everywhere
driven, driven, driven mad, without fear.

IronGutsTommy
09-29-2010, 02:35
never give food scraps to an animal in the wild. they come to rely on that instead of their natural hunting instinct. from the size of that one, he definitely has a home he comes from. wild animals usually arent paunchy even if they eat well. a paunch shows easy access to no work food.

JAK
09-29-2010, 03:23
... and the vast majority of North American humans are prime examples. :)

Easy access to food with very little physical activity to go with it.
Even the poor amongst us aren't forced to live a moral and healthy lifestyle.
That just ain't right. What hope is there for the rest of us? ;)

JAK
09-29-2010, 03:24
So is this cat still kicking?

4eyedbuzzard
09-29-2010, 07:54
never give food scraps to an animal in the wild. they come to rely on that instead of their natural hunting instinct. from the size of that one, he definitely has a home he comes from. wild animals usually arent paunchy even if they eat well. a paunch shows easy access to no work food.
That is true with purely wild animals, but I feed my cats regularly and they are still excellent hunters / killers. Can't stop them with doses of 9 Lives or Purina 1 - they just keep on killing mice, voles, birds, you name it. They even bring me gifts of leftovers all the time :D.

Pedaling Fool
09-29-2010, 09:13
never give food scraps to an animal in the wild. they come to rely on that instead of their natural hunting instinct.
Sort of like "trail magic", but that doesn't stop anyone, even with irrefutable evidence.

BTW, they don't come to "rely" on it, they expect it, like a spoiled child.


Just learn to accept the fact that people will continue to feed the animals and you'll have less stress in your life


:sun

weary
09-29-2010, 09:28
Sort of like "trail magic", but that doesn't stop anyone, even with irrefutable evidence.

BTW, they don't come to "rely" on it, they expect it, like a spoiled child.


Just learn to accept the fact that people will continue to feed the animals and you'll have less stress in your life :sun
These are wise observations.

kanga
09-29-2010, 11:38
Sort of like "trail magic", but that doesn't stop anyone, even with irrefutable evidence.

BTW, they don't come to "rely" on it, they expect it, like a spoiled child.


Just learn to accept the fact that people will continue to feed the animals and you'll have less stress in your life


:sun
best.

post.

ever..

JERMM
09-29-2010, 12:35
why do so many of you think the cat was dumped there? houses are throughout the mountains, the cat may belong to someone living there. just because you don't see a house from the trail or shelter doesn't mean one isn't just over the hill, and cats like to roam.

cats eat mice, birds, lizards, chipmunks, yep that's the way it is in nature, perfectly normal, so get over it.

Old Hiker
09-29-2010, 14:58
Sort of like "trail magic", but that doesn't stop anyone, even with irrefutable evidence.

BTW, they don't come to "rely" on it, they expect it, like a spoiled child.

Just learn to accept the fact that people will continue to feed the animals and you'll have less stress in your life

:sun

Wait! Are we talking about feral cats or thru-hikers?

Pedaling Fool
09-29-2010, 15:04
Wait! Are we talking about feral cats or thru-hikers?
Yeah...we're talking about animals;)

Old Hiker
09-29-2010, 15:08
Yeah...we're talking about animals;)

Wait.... what?? I'M SO CONFUSED!!!!

weary
09-29-2010, 15:26
Wait! Are we talking about feral cats or thru-hikers?
What makes you think there's a difference.

flemdawg1
09-29-2010, 19:16
One smells really bad and probably infested with parasites......











the other is a cat. :-D

4eyedbuzzard
09-29-2010, 22:36
One smells really bad and probably infested with parasites......











the other is a cat. :-D
Nominated for post of the day.

Wise Old Owl
09-29-2010, 23:41
2nd the nomination and add two mice.

JAK
09-30-2010, 04:34
Wait.
Many of my friends are thru-hikers, and only two of them are mice.

SassyWindsor
09-30-2010, 20:04
I like cats, please don't hurt them.

4eyedbuzzard
09-30-2010, 20:08
I like cats, please don't hurt them.

Um, er, ah, okay, I prom . . . [burp]. Sorry.

http://worldwidewhiskers.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/alf2.jpg