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longhiker
06-09-2010, 11:21
I know (and practice) about keeping a clean campsite, cooking far from the campsite, storing food yet somewhere else and so on..

but I am just curious -- how often does a black bear actually disturb a tent in which people are sleeping?

If rarely, why is that? Are they afraid of what tents look like? Do tents look like giant animals to them? Can they smell / sense people sleeping inside and fear them?

I've seen black bears be very shy of people while hiking but I can't understand why they don't approach tents at night more often.. if they do, what can one do? Shout and be loud as usual?
(Just seems less effective at close quarters. I'd especially not want to shout and spook a sow with cubs if they approached my tent at night and were inches from me on the other side of the nylon.. )

On a similar note, have people left their tent unattended (but without food inside) for a day hike and come back and found that a bear had rummaged through things?

Lone Wolf
06-09-2010, 11:35
very rare for a bear to mess with an occupied tent with food in it

jayhawker
06-09-2010, 12:07
I read somewhere that a current theory is the psychology of the bear understands possession or 'property rights'. If they see something out in the open it is fair game and that is why some people will tell you that hanging food is bad because it will bring around persistent bear activity.

Others will tell you that leaving it in your tent is bad becuase there are very rare documented cases where a bear has mauled an occupied tent.. i guess if a bear is hungry enough it will fight for it if need be.

What Lone Wolf said.. compare the number of this incidents against lightning strikes, I'd bet anything bear attacks are far far less.

I've been backpacking for years and I always hang my stuff. Then again, I wash my hands about 10 times a day and look both ways when crossing an empty road.

JAK
06-09-2010, 12:08
Well, based on all the books I have read written by bears, as I understand they are creatures of habit, much like us. They get into a routine, largely influences by their mother during their formative years, and get their food in the usual places. They devote a certain amount of time to finding new sources. Males probably do this more because they range more. If food becomes more scarce, or the bear population goes up, then they would devote a little more time to this. Even when looking for new food sources, they look in familiar places. If we were starving in the woods, or were cold, or whatever, where would we look for food or comfort? We might bypass alot of opportunities simply because we are not familiar with them. We all have a natural fear of the unknown. In addition to this, bears tend to have a natural fear or weariness of humans. Those that are less weary, tend to get weeded out. Also, hunting selectively reduces the male population, which are the most wandering, so older bears are more likely to be female, with smaller ranges, and more established routines. But this is only based up the books I have read that were written by bears. I haven't received any personal accounts from them directly. The more scholarly bears might be all that representative or reliable.

Jack Tarlin
06-09-2010, 12:20
I agree with Wolf that on the A.T. it is quite rare for a tent (especially with food in it) to be messed in it when occupied.

Key word here: Occupied.

Tents left un-occupied or untended get messed with all the time, especially in places like Shenandoah Park, New Jersey, and other areas with high bear activity.

longhiker
06-09-2010, 12:21
let's keep assurance that bears are a negligible danger for another thread another day.. I know there are 1000s of things more dangerous in the backcountry and frontcountry than bears.

i'm merely curious about bears and tents.

Blissful
06-09-2010, 12:48
Ask Chaco Taco. :)

Manwich
06-09-2010, 12:49
Bears will run away when a butterfly farts. So long as you're still breathing, you're gonna be okay.

Lone Wolf
06-09-2010, 12:50
Ask Chaco Taco. :)

a very rare incident

Gray Blazer
06-09-2010, 12:55
very rare for a bear to mess with an occupied tent with food in it

Well put. I know very well about that rare time.

Mountain Dog
06-09-2010, 12:57
I hung my food bag about 30 feet from my tent one night. A bear came and visited most of the night. After scouting the site, he never came within 15 feet of me, he spent most of the night around the food bag and mostly on the side away from the tent. If I made a loud noise he ran away for a while.

wnderer
06-09-2010, 12:58
A couple years back I was hiking south and ran into a pod of NOBOs at Dick's Dome. This one guy sat down and started talking to me and all the other NOBOs got up. Well he said he had a tarp and not a tent because a bear came through the back of his tent to get his peanut butter. He escaped through the front of his tent with his peanut butter. The bear then wrecked his tent. This did not stop him from sleeping with his peanut butter. He was very attached to his peanut butter.

Why do they shutdown campsites in the Smoky Mountains for bear activity, if they're not getting complaints about bear activity?

flemdawg1
06-09-2010, 13:01
Well, based on all the books I have read written by bears, ....

That one is obviously smarter than the average bear.

ChinMusic
06-09-2010, 13:14
Why do they shutdown campsites in the Smoky Mountains for bear activity, if they're not getting complaints about bear activity?
Usually because some jamoke hung their food improperly or left their food unattended and the bear found the shelter to be a great source of food.

Unattended food kills bears.

Pedaling Fool
06-09-2010, 14:04
They're not afraid of tents; they know you're in there. From all the reports it seems to me that bears getting at hung food is so much greater than from tents. I know this brings into question per capita crap of % of hangers that lose food vs. those of us that keep food in our tents. The fact is no one knows the answer.

All I can say is that of all the people that I know who store food in their occupied tent (and have been for years) I know of no one that has lost their food, but I know some hangers that have lost their food.

Digger'02
06-09-2010, 14:38
My experience with bears has been totally different. First off Jack, wasn;t your tent destroyed in 2002 while in the great state of NJ by a bear?

Anwyay, most of my bear experience comes from the whites and the smokies, but in the smokies the trail crews have lost 7 tents in the past three years to bears who generally wait for the inhabitant to leave before ransacking it.

There was no food in the tents, but they did smell like Petes Schweaty's Chocolate Balls most likely.

centsless
06-09-2010, 14:48
Longhiker,

Do yourself a favor and read Steve Herrero's - Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance. Probably the best book i've read thus far on this subject.

http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Causes-Avoidance-revised/dp/158574557X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

Bags4266
06-09-2010, 15:24
All that are left are the dumb bears... Once the bear figures out the game and how to get that food burrito they become nuisance bears and are then put down.

longhiker
06-09-2010, 16:37
Judging by the reviews on Amazon, that book appears to be selling fear..

or maybe the people reviewing it just like to be afraid.

couscous
06-09-2010, 16:49
I have the book. If I believed it was as dangerous to be around bears as the author implies, I would stay in Ohio instead of backpacking in VA, WV, MD, PA. The "Cliff Notes" version of the book can be gleaned by reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Bear Cables
06-09-2010, 18:48
Judging by the reviews on Amazon, that book appears to be selling fear..

or maybe the people reviewing it just like to be afraid.

I think a better source of bear knowlege would be Bear.org of the North American Bear Research Center. They don't peddle fear, just teach what they have observed.

HIKER7s
07-01-2010, 08:10
I think you just have to do what is working for you. With how loose or tight you adhere to knowledgable practices consistent with the type of threat your in.

Many Walks
07-01-2010, 12:13
We were in the boundary waters of MN/Canada for our honeymoon and had several bear visits. One was a VERY LARGE male who made his way out to an island where we were camping. The food was hung and the camp was clean. He tried for the food bag then circled around the tent a few times and about that time we realized we still had an open pack of gun in the tent. He stopped on my side sniffing so close the nylon was moving in and out. He stayed there for a while, tried for the food bag again, then moved on. We've had other incidents with bears circling at night with our food in the tent with us, but no problems. I really think they are strictly looking for food and determine the risk isn't worth the reward if people are present. I agree with the “possession” theory. Of course there are exceptions with some bears who have lost their fear of people and with older grizzlies who see people as an easy meal, but for the most part people in tents are left alone at night.


To better understand bears I recommend a great DVD called “Staying Safe in Bear Country” presented by the Safety in Bear Country Society in cooperation with the International Association for Bear Research and Management. It doesn't push fear, but is intended to increase knowledge of bear behavior and to help prevent bear encounters and attacks. It's a good visual presentation to help read and understand bear behavior in order to appreciate them in their environment.

SouthMark
07-01-2010, 12:21
Peddling fear is entertainment and sells.

the goat
07-01-2010, 14:18
two days ago, 3 feet from the front stoop of my parent's house, not far from thornton gap.
http://by147w.bay147.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=d6e5c20d-848b-11df-9218-00215ad8015c&Aux=44|0|8CCE6AFC0296180||

Toolshed
07-01-2010, 20:39
I know (and practice) about keeping a clean campsite, cooking far from the campsite, storing food yet somewhere else and so on..

but I am just curious -- how often does a black bear actually disturb a tent in which people are sleeping?

If rarely, why is that? Are they afraid of what tents look like?
They're afraid of the zippers (Just like Sheep) that's why I wear a kilt in the puckerbrush......:D

Del Q
07-01-2010, 20:52
Butterfly Farts. Now I need to put hearing THAT on my Bucket List!

Tinker
07-01-2010, 21:56
Bears will run away when a butterfly farts. So long as you're still breathing, you're gonna be okay.

:D:D:D What a mind picture!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been hiking for 30+ years and hadn't seen a bear on the trail (One at a shelter at night and one in a neighborhood back yard near an access trail in NY).
I HAVE heard VERY heavy animals tearing through the woods in the opposite direction when I've approached them on the trail on numerous occasions. Could've been just about anything, but I didn't always hear the tell-tale pounding of hoofed feet.
Most folks will concur that black bears,though extremely curious are, for the most part VERY afraid of adult humans. I can only imagine how terrified they are to hear me snore at night. ;)

skinewmexico
07-01-2010, 22:26
I don't know that they never do anything to an occupied tent. A bear pulled a lady out of a tent in the Sandias (New Mexico) a couple of days ago. They did have food, and a small barky dog stored in the tent too.

modiyooch
07-02-2010, 08:00
What about hammocks? Does the risk go up with a smaller setup and in the trees? Do we resemble a food bag at that point? When I slept in my hammock I was concerned about being bumped.

Manwich
07-02-2010, 09:05
What about hammocks? Does the risk go up with a smaller setup and in the trees? Do we resemble a food bag at that point? When I slept in my hammock I was concerned about being bumped.

You are now infinitely more likely to get struck by lightning than disturbed by a bear, now that you're tied to two grounding trees.

Dogwood
07-02-2010, 20:58
Bears are attracted to scents, even from food wrappers, sunscreen toothpaste, bug repellant, cookware, even from food odors left on clothing if you cooked in that clothing. Some bears associate humans with a possible food source(read Chin Music's post above). Some bears are curious.

Panzer1
07-02-2010, 21:25
I read somewhere that a current theory is the psychology of the bear understands possession or 'property rights'. If they see something out in the open it is fair game and that is why some people will tell you that hanging food is bad because it will bring around persistent bear activity.

There may also be 'criminal' bears that don't care about property rights and are inclined to mug you.

Panzer

Sierra Echo
07-02-2010, 21:27
There may also be 'criminal' bears that don't care about property rights and are inclined to mug you.

Panzer

LOL you can tell those bears by the bandanas pulled up over their snouts!

TIDE-HSV
07-03-2010, 00:55
LOL you can tell those bears by the bandanas pulled up over their snouts!

Or caps worn bill backwards... :)

Sierra Echo
07-03-2010, 07:16
Or caps worn bill backwards... :)

LOL and they pants hanging off their butts~!

Manwich
07-07-2010, 13:01
http://i.imgur.com/PZZtQ.jpg