Going Floorless....

[mykl]

I don't know what to really call them, floorless tents, tarps, tepees, etc, but have been looking into giving them a try. I want something that I guess is more tent style; walls and door(s). I was looking at the Appy Trails Mark 3. http://www.appytrails.com/index.html Anyone familiar with them? Anything comparable to suggest? I don't use trekking poles so would need something that either has a pole (like the Appy Trails), can be hung or can get a pole to use with it. One or two person.
Also looked at the Sierra Designs Origami 2, but it seams to need a lot of ground (its big). https://www.sierradesigns.com/p-122-origami-2-ultralight.aspx
I'm starting to like the idea and weight, and want to give them an honest try.

[Shutterbug]

I don't know what to really call them, floorless tents, tarps, tepees, etc, but have been looking into giving them a try. I want something that I guess is more tent style; walls and door(s). I was looking at the Appy Trails Mark 3. http://www.appytrails.com/index.html Anyone familiar with them? Anything comparable to suggest? I don't use trekking poles so would need something that either has a pole (like the Appy Trails), can be hung or can get a pole to use with it. One or two person.
Also looked at the Sierra Designs Origami 2, but it seams to need a lot of ground (its big). https://www.sierradesigns.com/p-122-origami-2-ultralight.aspx
I'm starting to like the idea and weight, and want to give them an honest try.

I look for two things in a shelter -- protection from rain and protection from bugs. A floorless tent can protect you from rain, but can't keep the mosquitos out.

[Mountain Wildman]

I am not familiar with Appy Trails and prefer a tent with full protection, Golite offers their Shangri-la series that also has the availability to add a floor and even a full mesh with floor if you decide floorless is not for you after all.
http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=370002110&mc=154&t=&lat=

[leaftye]

That Appy Trails site is atrocious. I want to gouge my eyes out. Aesthetics aside, isn't polyester fabric a bad idea? I thought that stuff degraded in sunlight much faster than nylon. I suppose that's why the price is so low.

You can get a pole from Quest Outfitters.

How much do you want to spend?

[bulldog49]

I have an Integral Designs floorless tentw times. Used it only a few times and don't like it. I use a Lunar Solo instead. The addtl 6 or 7 ozs for the floor is well worth it.

[couscous]

AWOL (Awol2003) used a floorless Black Diamond Beta Light for his thru-hike and sewed some mosquito netting around the bottom to keep bugs out.

[general]

if bugs are a problem, you need a floor or bug net. if you don't mind the bugs then the lack of a floor is no problem. tarps and other floorless shelters work well in the cooler seasons when bugs are not an issue. however, if you want to save weight by using this type of shelter, zippers and such are un-necessary and only add the weight that you are attempting to save. if weight is the reason for the choice then the lightest, most simple shelter is what your looking for.

[WinterWarlock]

I am not familiar with Appy Trails and prefer a tent with full protection, Golite offers their Shangri-la series that also has the availability to add a floor and even a full mesh with floor if you decide floorless is not for you after all.
http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=370002110&mc=154&t=&lat=

+1 to that - love my ShangriLa - have the Nest, and the floor, so depending on time of year and conditions, I can choose to use anyway I want.

[LIhikers]

Do I understand correctly?
You have to hang it to get the peak?
That limits your camping spots , no balds, mountain tops, fields or meadows. I think I'd pass it up for that reason alone, but to each his own.

[WinterWarlock]

Do I understand correctly?
You have to hang it to get the peak?
That limits your camping spots , no balds, mountain tops, fields or meadows. I think I'd pass it up for that reason alone, but to each his own.

If you're talking about the ShangriLa, no, you don't have to hang it. There is a center pole (at least on SL-3). Hanging is an option though...

[LIhikers]

No, I meant the Appy Trails Mk III the OP was talking about

[skinewmexico]

Appy Trails comes with a pole. You have the option to hang it. Roomy and light if you you don't mind not having a floor. Haven't been in one in the rain yet.

[Miner]

Here are a few floorless designs that I know of that are somewhat tent like. Note that many are tiny manufacturers that you buy direct from since this is a niche market.

-Six Moons Designs Oasis Shelter
-Zpacks Heximid
-Mountain Laurel Designs Solo/Duo mids shelters (pyramid tarp like shelters)
-Golite use to make a floorless tent called the uptopia that you can still buy on clearance at REI. Their Shangri-La shelter is a pyramid like tarp with 4walls.
-Gossemer Gear's Spinnshelter, though I think its prone to condensation if you completely close it up.

Henry Shires Tarptent use to make floorless versions of some of their models, but seems to no longer do so. However, you may find one used for sale.

[mister krabs]

That Appy Trails site is atrocious. I want to gouge my eyes out. Aesthetics aside, isn't polyester fabric a bad idea? I thought that stuff degraded in sunlight much faster than nylon. I suppose that's why the price is so low.

You can get a pole from Quest Outfitters.

How much do you want to spend?


I think you've got it backwards, polyester is more UV resistant than nylon.

[SHORTCUT]

I us the original design Tarptent for one person. There is no floor and just one 18 in. pole at the tear. The front pole is your hiking stick. There is bug netting that rests on the ground, and a zippered front door. The ground cloth is either a Tyvek sheet, or a large Poncho that doubles as my rain gear. If you want to go light weight you can NOT BEAT THIS COMBINATION. The tent and single pole weigh just one pound. Bugs are not a problem. It covers a large area, so staying dry is no problem. Try it, you will like it.

[skinewmexico]

You can actually make an extension for a trekking pole and use it for the smaler appy trails.

[Panzer1]

if you use a floor-less tent during cool weather, you won't have bug problems.

Panzer

[fiddlehead]

Floorless tents have many advantages.
I have a few of them and prefer them unless I'm in the tropics with it's many ants.
You can sew a 8" strip of bug netting on the bottom to drape over the ground to keep out flying insects.
Advantages: just roll over and half out of the tent to pee.
Set up over a rock or bush that you don't want to kill (or uneven surface)
(I once set mine up in a field of pot in Nepal that was 4 feet tall, I just bent it down for my soft mattress that night)
Rain doesn't fill the bathtub if some does come inside.
Much lighter weight tents with 1/3 of the material not needed.
No need to shake out the dirt or sand and dries quicker.

Once you get used to it, it's a better idea IMO.

[garlic08]

Add to Fiddlehead's list the ability to fill a water bottle with rain water while sitting in your tent if you make a gutter in the canopy.

Bugs aren't so bad if you don't pitch on an anthill or scorpion nest (that morning sure was fun). Flying insects don't seem to fly under the edge too much.

I think you can get most of Henry Shires Tarptents without a floor.

[Panzer1]

(I once set mine up in a field of pot in Nepal that was 4 feet tall, I just bent it down for my soft mattress that night)


OMG :D:D:D

Panzer

[WinterWarlock]

[QUOTE=fiddlehead;1022882
(I once set mine up in a field of pot in Nepal that was 4 feet tall[/QUOTE]

And then you can have a campfire in the tent!

[Tinker]

I think you've got it backwards, polyester is more UV resistant than nylon.

That is true.
Nylon is initially stronger per weight than polyester (given equal weights/threads per sq. in.), but degrades faster in sunlight. Also - nylon holds more water weight than polyester (that's why polyester is used in hiking undergarments rather than nylon). I'm guessing that it's probably easier to coat nylon with polyurethane because it would get absorbed like water, too. I may not be correct on that, though.
If you look at high quality family tents you will see that many of them have nylon bodies and floors but polyester flys.

[mykl]

Before spending some money, I went out for a few days, and on 2 of those nights I set up my tent the "fast pack" way, (frame n fly, no body), and it wasn't that bad. The bugs weren't to much of an issue, their noises were more annoying than anything. Had some chipmunks poke their heads in, and screech n run when I moved in my sleep, waking me, or going into it. Yea, chipmunks are not cute anymore! They are doing a number on my gardens. Anyway, the almost floorless was ok, and a friend of mine and I might pick up the Appy Trails Mark V for when we do the night fishing, drinkin, smokin thing that we do often. We are up for most of the night, but would be cool (and light to carry) to have a place to get out of the rain a bit or crash. But I don't think I'd use it as a standard camping shelter.

[stranger]

For ultra-light shelters with complete bug protection I would recommend Tarptent shelters, but be aware that silnylon does not have the waterproof levels of more standard fabrics...If you are in a puddle and kneeling on a silnylon floor water may be 'pushed' through due to your weight.

Also...Lightheart Gear makes great shelters as well, if you want complete protection, I would look at Big Agnes tents, heavier but also more weather resistant and do not rely on trekking poles.

[crazyonelost]

Maybe I haven't really thought this out well enough. But , going floorless in a summer Tstorm/rainy season would be out of the question of using this method of shelter. Then again, All I know is using a dome tent floor and never experience using a floorless shelter. I can't criticize someone,until I try it myself.

[garlic08]

That is a very wise approach, which you don't always see on this forum--to actually try something before you criticize it.

A floorless shelter system replaces weight with skill. You need to develop an eye for campsites that will stay dry in wet conditions. They exist. Look for high, well-drained ground with some leaf litter and duff, as opposed to the "usual" pounded, indented and muddy well-used tent sites that are easy pickings near most trails.

Most floorless shelters have a much larger rain canopy, which in my experience, and paradoxically, actually help keep the skillful user dryer than any dome tent I've used. The rain fly on a dome tent is very close to the floor seam, and it seemed like I'd nearly always get some leakage in at least one of the many corners. That has never happened with my Tarptents.

[ChinMusic]

For a few ounces the floor is well worth it, IMO. Bugs and wet have been mentioned. I'll add another reason.

With a floor I'm not going to lose stuff. In the morning it is easy to pack up. I'm sure I would be more apt to forget stuff without my floor. I don't need that added to the bugs and wet for a couple ounces.

Sure it can be done, but why?

[Sly]

I A floorless tent can protect you from rain, but can't keep the mosquitos out.

The Wild Oasis tarp with netting around the bottom keeps mosquitoes out

[brooklynkayak]

I'm usually in a floorless shelter when solo, but I usually carry either an SMD Meteor bivy or Serenty Net Tent as an inner. There are other bivys or net tents that would work as well.

The combination allows critter and wet ground protection when needed and can be more flexible than floored shelters.

You can pitch in narrower spots that a floored shelter wouldn't fit in.
The Meteor or Serenety can be used alone on most summer nights or inside an AT shelter.
The floorless shelter can be used alone when bugs aren't an issue.
You can pitch a floorless shelter in the rain without getting the inner wet.
And many other advantages...

[gunner76]

Or just get a hammock....

[wyominglostandfound]

i never use a floor. just more weight to pack. here is my latest floorless tipi. it is similar to the one i use for sustained backcountry hunts in the fall....

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/elkantler75/100_7071.jpg

www.wyominglostandfound.com (http://www.wyominglostandfound.com)

[Lyle]

I us the original design Tarptent for one person. There is no floor and just one 18 in. pole at the tear. ...

OOOHH! Unfortunate typo. Not confidence building in it's durability. :D

[Lyle]

For a few ounces the floor is well worth it, IMO. Bugs and wet have been mentioned. I'll add another reason.

With a floor I'm not going to lose stuff. In the morning it is easy to pack up. I'm sure I would be more apt to forget stuff without my floor. I don't need that added to the bugs and wet for a couple ounces.

Sure it can be done, but why?

Flip side of this, most times when I loose something (temporarily) it is because I inadvertently packed it inside my tent. Not good when you get into camp the next evening, and find your flashlight is not where it should be, and you don't find it until AFTER you've set up your tent by feel. Yep, been there done that.

With a floorless shelter, this has never been a problem.

Use whatever you're most comfortable with. It's all good.

[FamilyGuy]

Flip side of this, most times when I loose something (temporarily) it is because I inadvertently packed it inside my tent. Not good when you get into camp the next evening, and find your flashlight is not where it should be, and you don't find it until AFTER you've set up your tent by feel. Yep, been there done that.

With a floorless shelter, this has never been a problem.

Use whatever you're most comfortable with. It's all good.

Just make sure you don't lose stuff....:rolleyes:

[sbhikes]

A floorless shelter will have a floor if you use a groundsheet. The groundsheet becomes your floor. If you have enough netting around the edges, you can even tuck in to make a better seal against crawling insects.

I wouldn't worry about kneeling on your floorless floor in a puddle. You'll become smarter about where to set up camp. I was amazed on the PCT in Washington how even after a few days of rain there would still be places where the ground was perfectly dry. I'd set up my tent there and let other people hope their high-tech fabric would keep out the puddles. (I didn't have a floorless tent. I just didn't want my tent to get wet.)

[wyominglostandfound]

the white tipi is my own personal 5 man and the canopy with a stovejack and single door weighs only 26 oz.

i use a dead limb for a centerpole and will usually cut my own tent stakes.



http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/elkantler75/100_7024.jpg

www.wyominglostandfound.com (http://www.wyominglostandfound.com)

[dschloeder]

I used the Appy Trails Mark V during a Sierra Trek last summer. I didn't get to see how it held up in the rain, but it worked very well for me and I liked the light weight. There were a lot of mosquitoes around, but they only got in if I left the door open. They were not able to fly in from under the edges. Crawling insects were the only concern. I did have some ants come inside a couple times, but nothing major.

As far as losing things, I found the floorless design was actually better. I would leave my sleeping bag and pad on the ground cloth, and take the tent down with everything in place. Then I could easily put away the gear in my pack with everything accessible and in the open. Nothing was hidden so nothing was list.

[mykl]

I was just looking at the Marmot Haven 2P. I don't get it. Its a 2 person, non freestanding, single pole floorless (w/ground sheet) 4 pound shelter. Why would someone want this? And for $200! I could think of many, many other shelters for that weight and price (even less on both) that would be full coverage.
http://marmot.com/products/haven_2p?p=118,173,74

[babbage]

I used an Origami 2 for about 6 months (of 3 day weekends). I did not think it had a big footprint. It was super versatile - could be set up in many different ways. Could cook (alc) in it. Could sit up in it. It was dry, except where the elastic door tie backs wicked water and dripped inside (easily fixed with silnet). It was sturdy, held a light snow load, and shed the wind very well. I posted a you tube video of it in a hail storm in the Citico. It did fine. It was a little tricky to get the setup exactly correct. At times one of the 5 panels would be staked at the wrong angle from the center pole and it would lay to low - if that happened I would have to start over with the pitch. As time went on I got better at getting everything set up correctly. But... it was too short. I am 5.10 and I constantly had to battle with my feet sliding out into the rain at night. Argghh!
It was not perfect, but it worked. It is a light shelter that you can count on. Just too short.
By the way -- Sierra Designs got bought out in '08 - their stuff is not as good as it used to be. I doubt that I would ever buy Sierra Designs again and I have been a loyal user since I got my Flashlight Tent back in the 80's.

[FamilyGuy]

I was just looking at the Marmot Haven 2P. I don't get it. Its a 2 person, non freestanding, single pole floorless (w/ground sheet) 4 pound shelter. Why would someone want this? And for $200! I could think of many, many other shelters for that weight and price (even less on both) that would be full coverage.
http://marmot.com/products/haven_2p?p=118,173,74

I think the space reveals a lot. It has 56 sq feet of living space. To put that in perspective, that is what many 4 person shelters claim. It is also made with 40d nylon, which has a higher tear strength than 30d silnylon, and is rated more waterproof - the canopy by as much as 700mm and the floor by almost 3 times the hydrostatic head.

From Backpacker Magazine:

"“The incredible space-to-weight ratio and a sturdy weatherproof design makes this one of the best tents I’ve ever used,” declares our Idaho tester. Consider the numbers: It weighs less than four pounds yet offers a whopping 56 square feet of space. A family of four slept comfortably in the Haven and still had space inside for stashing packs and boots. The design is a tarp/tent mash-up, with one arching central pole, a clip-in floor, and minimal bug protection (there’s an open, four-inch gap along the perimeter between the fly and floor). The latter makes this three-season shelter best for deserts and other trips (like fall in the mountains) when insects don’t swarm. Setup requires a few tries to learn the best staking arrangement (tip: first stake the four corners that are perpendicular to the crest pole, to form a “square,” then tack down the rest). The central pole curves from the head and foot ends, and is tensioned by eight stakes. Removing the floor creates an even more minimalist shelter and saves 15 ounces. Ventilation is outstanding, thanks to two zippered vents and the ground-level gap. Testers in Utah and in Montana’s Rattlesnake Wilderness experienced zero condensation – even during constant rainfall. Strong 30-mph gusts nudged (but didn’t collapse) the central pole, and the Haven held firm enough to let our tester sleep soundly through the storm. The large door at the head allowed testers to exit without crawling over their tentmates, and the generous peak height (45 inches) made this a comfy retreat when we sat out 12 hours of rain. There’s no vestibule, but no one complained."

[ChinMusic]

I was just looking at the Marmot Haven 2P. I don't get it. Its a 2 person, non freestanding, single pole floorless (w/ground sheet) 4 pound shelter. Why would someone want this? And for $200! I could think of many, many other shelters for that weight and price (even less on both) that would be full coverage.
http://marmot.com/products/haven_2p?p=118,173,74
Looks suited for out west for a family or kids in the backyard.

Not much else. Maybe car camping.

[FamilyGuy]

Looks suited for out west for a family or kids in the backyard.

Not much else. Maybe car camping.

Never been to the mountains, eh?

[ChinMusic]

Never been to the mountains, eh?
Quite often actually.

You have a point, or just trolling as per usual?

[FamilyGuy]

Quite often actually.

You have a point, or just trolling as per usual?


Yes - my point is you have no idea what you are talking about.

[ChinMusic]

Yes - my point is you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hey, I'm not that one supporting a 4-pound, floorless tent.

That would be YOU.

[FamilyGuy]

Not supporting it. Simply trying to give reasoning as to why it may work in certain conditions. But this shelter isn't for you - you would lose your 'stuff' because there isn't a floor. Remember?

[ChinMusic]

. But this shelter isn't for you - you would lose your 'stuff' because there isn't a floor. Remember?
Nope, ANY 4-lb tent is not for me. And yes, I like to spread stuff out inside my tent. I also like the advantage of not having something overlooked by "hiding" under a leaf. I love Cowboy Camping but if I need a shelter I want a floor. Those that tarp will use Tyvek, or similar ground cloth. There just is not a weight advantage between a floor and ground cloth. I want my "ground cloth" connect to the nearly weightless bug netting. THAT is a tent.

Sue me.

[FamilyGuy]

Yes - 56sq ft would be too much unnecessary space for one.

Watch out for those big leaves.

[mykl]

I think the space reveals a lot. It has 56 sq feet of living space. To put that in perspective, that is what many 4 person shelters claim. It is also made with 40d nylon, which has a higher tear strength than 30d silnylon, and is rated more waterproof - the canopy by as much as 700mm and the floor by almost 3 times the hydrostatic head.

From Backpacker Magazine:

"“The incredible space-to-weight ratio and a sturdy weatherproof design makes this one of the best tents I’ve ever used,” declares our Idaho tester. Consider the numbers: It weighs less than four pounds yet offers a whopping 56 square feet of space. A family of four slept comfortably in the Haven and still had space inside for stashing packs and boots. The design is a tarp/tent mash-up, with one arching central pole, a clip-in floor, and minimal bug protection (there’s an open, four-inch gap along the perimeter between the fly and floor). The latter makes this three-season shelter best for deserts and other trips (like fall in the mountains) when insects don’t swarm. Setup requires a few tries to learn the best staking arrangement (tip: first stake the four corners that are perpendicular to the crest pole, to form a “square,” then tack down the rest). The central pole curves from the head and foot ends, and is tensioned by eight stakes. Removing the floor creates an even more minimalist shelter and saves 15 ounces. Ventilation is outstanding, thanks to two zippered vents and the ground-level gap. Testers in Utah and in Montana’s Rattlesnake Wilderness experienced zero condensation – even during constant rainfall. Strong 30-mph gusts nudged (but didn’t collapse) the central pole, and the Haven held firm enough to let our tester sleep soundly through the storm. The large door at the head allowed testers to exit without crawling over their tentmates, and the generous peak height (45 inches) made this a comfy retreat when we sat out 12 hours of rain. There’s no vestibule, but no one complained."

Though 56 sq ft, the peak/angles looks like it has a lot of useless space.

[FamilyGuy]

For dancing maybe. Not for sleeping.