GPS cordinates

[theurbansuburban]

I'm doing a weekend back packing trip this weekend, but all my maps are at home (i'm a college student), and I won't be able to see them until the day before the hike, and i'm interested in doing some geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com/) around the campsite once I get there. I was wonding if anyone had a map hand and could give me the approximate GPS cordanite of the Blue Mountian Camp site (PA) so could look of any local geocaches (and if you know of any good ones in the area).

Thanks for any help

TheUrbanSuburban

p.s. If you have anything that I should know about the blue mountain campsite I could use some of that info too, since my trail books are at home too.

[tlbj6142]

I think all of the shelter/campsite locations are buried somewhere on the ATC site.

[Ridge]

N40d 22.006m W76d 47.981m

5.14 miles SSE of AT (nearest point)

Peters Mtn Shelter is probably the closet (0.7 miles north of victoria furnace,pa)

[DeskJockey]

Here is a link to the page where you can download all the shelter coordinates. I've verified two of them, and they where right on.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/protect/gis/GPSdata.html

By Blue Mountian I am guessing you mean the Cove Mountain area that is to the North of Boiling Spring and to the South of Duncannon. I just happened to have completed this hike not too long ago. On Cove Mountain (The north Mountain) there are two very good geocaches; GCHDFK and GCHF0J. The latter being a night cache that it is possible to "cheat" on and find during daylight. On the south mountain (Blue Mountain) there are a few caches. There are two caches that are near the AT; GC9C56 and GC9C5B. There are a few other caches located on this mountain if you take the orange blazed Darrlington trail.

The shelter on the south mountain is not currently there. This was the Darrlington shelter. It is in the process of being rebuilt, but the volunteer group is short handed and it is taking some time.

I was able to find a good source of water at the Cove Mountain shelter, and the best water source for the Darrlington shelter area is about one mile north of the shelter. The water cloestest to the Darrlington shelter was not flowing very well, but it was possible to get water from there. Just be prepared for a clogged filter.

Check some of the logs for the Cove Mountain cache. A cacher by the name of Waterboy with Wife has posted coordinates for the water sources. Most the leaves have fallen off of the trees, so the trail can be hard to follow in sections. But the trail is well blazed and I never had a problem finding the trail. Hats off to the trail maintainers in this area.

Something else worth noting. The Darrlington shelter area happens to be directly in a flight path for airplanes. The airplanes did not bother me, but they where there.

Have fun and enjoy your hike.

[c.coyle]

I was wonding if anyone had a map hand and could give me the approximate GPS cordanite of the Blue Mountian Camp site (PA) so could look of any local geocaches (and if you know of any good ones in the area).

Are you referring to the camp site at William Penn Shelter, which is known as Blue Mountain Campsite? This would be the one between Rausch Gap and 501 Shelters (between Route 72 and Route 645). Check here (http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/at/m.php?wpt=WilliamPe)

If this is the one you're thinking of, the campsite and spring are directly across the trail from the shelter. The shelter is a fairly new double decker.

[theurbansuburban]

I'm sorry for any confusion. The camp site I was talking about was the one c.coyle mentioned. The one at the William Penn Shelter. Thanks for all your other replys; I'll make use of everybodys information.
Thanks to everybody

I am although surprised that the closest geocache to the campsite is 3.5 miles away

[tlbj6142]

I am although surprised that the closest geocache to the campsite is 3.5 miles awayI thought caches were not allowed in National or State Parks/forest. And you have to live nearby a cache in order to announce it. IOW, if you live in Ohio you can put a cache out in CA on a business trip.

[Pencil Pusher]

Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Anyhow, ask Medicine Man, I think I recall him being into that geo-caching thing.

[The Old Fhart]

If you'd like to get more information on the guidelines on hiding a cache, go to http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx and read the short section on "off limits (physical) caches." With over 100,000 caches worldwide in 200 countries chances are there are some near anyone reading this. In theory you should have permission to place a cache but this isn't always (or generally) the case. To list a cache it has to be submitted for approval and inappropriate sites are denied but it is possible that some are missed. 9/11 has also changed the rules somewhat and seeing a strange person wandering around with a GPS has caused some caches to be destroyed by police departments thinking they might be bombs.

There are quite a few caches along the A.T. including a couple in Damascus, VA, several near Duncannon, PA, and in the White Mountains. Although many of these areas are designated "multiple use" there are some thru-hikers, who are also geocachers, who don't feel they belong near the trail. I personally don't see that as a problem. Oh, there is also one on Old Speck in Maine as another WB "member" can attest.

If you'd like to find what is available in your area, go to geocaching.com and do a search by entering your zip code. You might be surprised at the number of caches that pop up.

[MDSHiker]

Thanks for the GPS links !

[Pencil Pusher]

Neat stuff, Old Fart. So now I have a question for anyone that knows. Back when I bought my GPS, the military was still limiting GPS accuracy to 100 meters (without the coastal aids). I've heard they've since allowed 10 meter accuracy and was wondering how this affected my GPS unit? Can it benefit? I have a Magellan 315 hand held.

That link is pretty neat, I quickly found a cache one block from my house! Well, found it on the internet, that is.

[MisterSweetie]

My guess would be that the limitations that were in place at that time are inherent in the unit you purchased at that time. So your unit is still probably only accurate to 100m. Also, when older units were developed, they relied on 3 satellites to get their data. Now there are many, many more. I want to say there are almost 50, and handheld units typically look for 12 or so. Don't quote me on those numbers.

The point is, the limits placed are probably within the unit you own, and to be able to take advantage of updated and more relaxed standards, you will most likely have to purchase a newer more up to date unit.

[Pencil Pusher]

Well I found my first geocache today! I thought I was going to a park right near where I live but the GPS was saying otherwise. Seems I forgot what the name of the park I live by was... doh! Well it was a nice day so I went for a little walk to the correct park. So I'm not sure of the accuracy, but I was probably searching a 10 meter area. Well, I should say I first had to stop scratching my head and realize I entered the wrong coordinates and forgot to check the map datum they were based on. I was about to give up and then thought to look for places someone might hide something.

I can see this developing into a fun hobby! I see no one has placed a cache in the park near me, so I think I'll head there in a little bit and see if I can scope out a place to hide a cache. It is very open so maybe that's why no one has placed there. This sure is a change from the first GPS unit I was taught to use back in August of 1990. That unit was huge in comparison, but had 10 meter accuracy. So this Magellan 315 needs three satellites to get a fix and supports up to 12, so I guess it's accurate to 10 meters now.

Neat stuff, thanks again:sun

[Frosty]

Neat stuff, Old Fart. So now I have a question for anyone that knows. Back when I bought my GPS, the military was still limiting GPS accuracy to 100 meters (without the coastal aids). I've heard they've since allowed 10 meter accuracy and was wondering how this affected my GPS unit? Can it benefit? I have a Magellan 315 hand held.

That link is pretty neat, I quickly found a cache one block from my house! Well, found it on the internet, that is.Pretty simple to check. Go to a known point (pick one off a topo of where you live, for instance) and see what your GPS says. If you don't have a topo for your area, PM me a street intersection near your house (and the city you live in) and I'll pull the coordinates off of Street Atlas. Errors will be greater because we'll be using one system's data for another, and errors will be additive, but you still should get a good idea.

To clear up a misconsception about the number of satellites, GPS system has always been 24 satellites. GPS receivers have twelve channels to receive signals from the 12 satellites above the horizon at any given time (the other 12 being below the horizon).

It takes three satellites to obtain a 2D fix, latitude and longitude. Reception of signals from 4 satellites will give elevation, also.

The limits of accuracy were not in the GPS units, but in the satellite system. THe GPS could pinpoint a location using the satellites, but the signals from the satellites were deliberately wrong (to prevent the system being used as a targeting system by terrorists/foreign powers).

Evne so, newer systems have better software and some utilize WAAS, accurate to within 10 feet. I have had my Garmin 60CS on mountain peaks in the Whites, and it shows me right on the peak.

THe Dept of Defense "de-fuzzed" the systems under pressure from civilian organizations, particularly transportation companies. (Want to know where your drivers are? Install a transmitter in their vehicle which sends their location to the home office via satellite phone type technology. Hmm, look at this. Frosty's truck has been parked at strip joint for the last three hours, now he's doing 90 miles an hour to make up for lost time.)

[Youngblood]

Neat stuff, Old Fart. So now I have a question for anyone that knows. Back when I bought my GPS, the military was still limiting GPS accuracy to 100 meters (without the coastal aids). I've heard they've since allowed 10 meter accuracy and was wondering how this affected my GPS unit? Can it benefit? I have a Magellan 315 hand held.

That link is pretty neat, I quickly found a cache one block from my house! Well, found it on the internet, that is.

It was called SA (Selective Availability) and was an error purposedly introduced by the military to limit the accuracy of commercial units. I believe it was turned off in 2000, so your unit has been more accurate since then.

Youngblood

[The Old Fhart]

Pencil Pusher
The Magellan 315 is a 12 channel GPS receiver but does not have the WAAS enabled feature that would allow the highest accuracy. WAAS employs broadcasts from 2 ground stations, whose position is very accurately known, to correct for satellite wobble, etc.. The 24 active GPS satellites are not geo-stationary but are buzzing around up there so there are always some in view and 3 is the minimum to get a location fix. You need 4 to also get elevation data. With SA (dumbed down accuracy to please the military) the specs on the 315 are about 15 meters but since about 2001 when SA was turned off, the accuracy should be much better than that. Although the 315 is an older unit it will work for geocaching and if you decide you really want to get into it you can always upgrade later to something that will allow topo map data downloads and WAAS enabled reception. Try a couple of easier caches near your house and see how it works out. Just enter the coordinates of the cache as a waypoint (check manual) and do a "GOTO" to find the cache.