Safety In Lightning

[art gypsy]

I recent got a hennessy hyperlite hammock and greatly prefer it to sleeping in the shelters. It takes up much less space in my pack and weighs less, but I am wondering about safety during thunderstorms. It occurred to me that being tied to a couple of trees may not be the safest option in a thunderstorm. Any thoughts on this?

Art Gypsy

[Panzer1]

I never thought about that. I guess that could happen.

Panzer

[Graywolf]

I recent got a hennessy hyperlite hammock and greatly prefer it to sleeping in the shelters. It takes up much less space in my pack and weighs less, but I am wondering about safety during thunderstorms. It occurred to me that being tied to a couple of trees may not be the safest option in a thunderstorm. Any thoughts on this?

Art Gypsy

Hmmmm now thats a thought..:-?..

[sherrill]

I'm not an expert but wouldn't you be more at risk on the ground, underneath the tree? Electric current lives to find ground.

[Pedaling Fool]

This ought to be another interesting thread -- a war between two competing interests, in this case Tenters vs. Hammockers.

I don’t know the answer, but I imagine that the difference in danger is probably negligible, in other words about the same.

However, the point of lightening wanting to find ground is true, generally speaking, but notice that lightening mostly hits the highest object.

Electricity, basically, is only atoms trying to balance out, either gain or lose electrons if the potential difference between two objects is high enough there’s no such thing as an insulator.

BTW, I'm a tenter and I think all hammockers are tree killers....:D





;)

[Dobie Swift]

Holmdel-area man dies after being struck by lightning

Officials: He fell asleep in hammock during storm

Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 06/25/06
BY CHAD WEIHRAUCH
GANNETT NEW JERSEY

CLINTON TOWNSHIP - A 59-year-old camper died at Round Valley Reservoir,
apparently after he was struck by lightning while resting in a hammock,
officials said.

Police were still investigating the incident Saturday night.

Deputy Chief Sam DeBella of the Hunterdon County Prosecutor's Office identified
the victim only as a man from the Holmdel area. He was in the park kayaking
Friday during the day and remained to camp overnight. At some point, he fell
asleep Friday night or Saturday in a hammock anchored to several trees, police
said.

Several fierce storms moved through Central Jersey during that period.

"It appears from what we can tell at this point that lightning struck the tree,
struck the ground and hit him," DeBella said.

Officials said they were unsure who discovered the victim, but DeBella said he
was not camping alone.

Earlier in the day, Hunterdon County Prosecutor J. Patrick Barnes said
officials were withholding the man's name, pending notification of his next of
kin.

The exact cause of death will be determined during an autopsy, probably to be
conducted in the next week, he added - but the apparent cause of death was the
lightning strike.

"It looks that way, but again, that would be the medical examiner's call,"
Barnes said.

Rescue vehicles from the Clinton First Aid & Rescue Squad were parked at the
main launch Saturday, and emergency personnel evidently had used a boat to
reach the south side of the 2,000-acre reservoir.

According to the state Department of Environmental Protection's Division of
Parks and Forestry, there are more than 80 relatively remote campsites on the
far side of the lake, which is roughly 3 miles across at its longest point.
Campers can reach the sites only by boat, emergency access roads - or a 3- to
6-mile trek along the Cushetunk Trail.

DeBella said he was unsure whether the victim had reached the camping area by
kayak or on foot.

A spokeswoman for the DEP, Elaine Makatura, also confirmed the victim had
camped at the reservoir and was struck by lightning. She declined further
comment Saturday, saying park police and other rescue officials were handling
the investigation.

[redseal]

It is true, lightening wants to find ground. However, a tree gives it a path to ground. Trees are taller so the lightening tends to hit it before ground. My guess though is a negligible difference since it is such a random occurrence of what lightening strikes.

[ChinMusic]

Just tie to the shorter trees.

[Pedaling Fool]

Lightening has such a massive charge, it's kind of useless to think of it in the same way as normal household electricity, despite it being basically the same thing. Would be like comparing Niagra Falls to household plumbing.

Lightening respects no one (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/15/jesus-statue-struck-by-lightning/) If you open up the link you can see the before-and-after shot.

[Tin Man]

I don't let such things trouble me. When it's my time, I reckon I will be the first to know.

[Dobie Swift]

Lightening respects no one (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/15/jesus-statue-struck-by-lightning/) If you open up the link you can see the before-and-after shot.

Oh no!!! Not Big Butter Jesus!

[sherrill]

Maybe Bob should consider lightening rods or grounding:) rods as accessories.

[art gypsy]

I figure since the trees are the tallest thing around, they are more likely to be struck. I saw downed trees on the trail after a stormy night in a shelter. I think I will stick to the shelters when possible during thunderstorms, just in case.

[couscous]

"Double Spring Gap Shelter (1963)—Sleeps 12. Privy. Food-hoist cables available. Two
unfortunate hikers were killed by lightning inside this shelter in 1980." - Basically there is no [safe] place outside in the a thunderstorm, you can simply lessen the threat.
http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm

[Deadeye]

Sure you can find news stories of hammockers getting zapped, and you can find the same for tenters getting zapped. Realistically, I doubt there's a measurable difference in your chances either way. You are extremely unlikely to be hanging from, or tenting next to, any particular tree when lightning strikes. As many have said before, the most dangerous part of a hike is driving to the trailhead, followed by road crossings, followed by slips & falls. IMHO, all other dangers are negligible, though some may be avoidable.

[Don H]

You are more likely to have you tree straps burned off by lightning and fall to the ground while in a hammock than in a tent!

[garlic08]

I agree with everyone above that the risk is negligible, and it's not electrical--it's structural or thermal. I'd hate to be tied off to an exploding or burning tree (see photo). It's essentially the same risk in a tent, as long as you're on a dry insulating pad. In a tent, you could still get creamed by a falling tree. I've sat out many above-treeline afternoon storms under my tarp, sitting on my pad, feeling perfectly safe, at least from ground currents. In the unlikely event of a direct strike, though, all bets are off no matter where you are.

I don't think a shelter is necessarily that much safer. If you're sitting near the large entrance, you could be in an arc path, since very few shelters are protected with lightning terminals and down conductors. For that same reason, you should never seek shelter in a shallow cave or depression. If you're deep in an inside corner of a shelter (or cave), you're probably safer than you are outside.

[StubbleJumper]

When I hang, I try to find a couple of trees 4" in diameter, or at most 10" in diameter. These are usually far from the tallest trees in the woods. My slap straps are nowhere near long enough for a big old maple or some other tall tree.

More broadly, it is important to keep risks in some context. In these fora, we have a certain subset who worry about getting struck by lightning while sleeping. We have others that worry about a tree getting blown down on top of them at night. We have yet others that worry about getting murdered by a psychopath. An inexplicably large percentage of people worry about getting killed by a black bear. Without a doubt, all of these events have occurred to a few unfortunate people, but they are extremely unlikely events. For some strange reason, fewer people seem to worry about hypothermia or slipping and falling, both of which have a higher likelihood of occurrence.

Go out and hike says I. Don't worry about the extremely unlikely stuff.

[Tinker]

Yes, it's true that tall trees are a bad place to shelter during electrical storms, but, on the other hand, most, if not all, tents have aluminum poles - very conductive to electricity.
If it's a matter of emotional security, stay at home. That should make you feel safe.
All of life is a matter of risk vs. reward. I'll take my chances in the woods rather than in the back alley of a major city (or even a minor one ;)).

[Odd Man Out]

We should build tents and hammock out of chain mail. Then it will act like a Faraday cage any you will be completely safe. A direct hit by lightning won't hurt you. Of course it will weigh a few hundred pounds. A chain mail poncho will keep you safe while hiking too. Hey, I think I see a big money making opportunity here! :-?

[Edie]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/luckynky/small_2878810.jpg

[Dr O]

Maybe Bob should consider lightening rods or grounding rods as accessories.

make a Faraday cage, wrap yourself in aluminum foil :p

[Wise Old Owl]

Without the jokes this is an interesting thread, with no solutions or data. It would be difficult to answer definitively, I honestly think one would be safer in a hammock. My answer is not behind the physics - but more about the high speed photography I have seen. There are spikes of lightening that come up from the ground some 4 feet prior to the strike coming down (sort of a meet and greet) in some storms and quite frankly the hammock group is only just catching on, many are still unaware of Hammocking.

[Edie]

Send it in to Myth Busters.

[Wise Old Owl]

I had the same idea but they have done some shocking stuff already......

[Megapixel]

[/URL][url]http://cimms.ou.edu/~doswell/tstm_camping_safety.html (http://cimms.ou.edu/~doswell/tstm_camping_safety.html)

This article does a great job explaining about lightening and camping.

[modiyooch]

http://cimms.ou.edu/~doswell/tstm_camping_safety.html

This article does a great job explaining about lightening and camping.
Thanks, this was a good article.

I selected this from the article esp in response to comments made about sitting on insulated pads:

if a lightning flash has passed through thousands of feet of air (a terrific insulator), a few cm of rubber or whatever isn't going to make any difference that matters.

[art gypsy]

Thanks for posting this useful article. It is the best response that I've seen yet. I am a wildlife photographer so trail aside, staying home is not an acceptable option for me. Besides, I wouldn't trade my trail time for anything.

[WalksInDark]

In anticipation of a catamaran hammock hanging trip (you sail to where there is a great beach....then get off the sailboat and set up your hammocks and cooking/fire area) my younger brother started getting hysterical about getting struck by lightning while on the catamaran.

While it kind of made sense that a 30' tube of aluminum sticking out of the water might make a pretty good lightning rod, the statistics I was able to gather from a rather intensive internet search on lightning strikes and injuries/deaths from the strikes seemed to indicate that you are at as great of risk of a lightning strike being almost anywhere, doing almost anything (except acting like a nominee for the annual Darwin Awards). For example, many lightning strikes occur 30 minutes before ....or after....any obvious thunderstorm activity. Many fatalities, in fact, occur from people talking on land line phones and/or being in contact with any portion of household plumbing...for example, taking a shower or bath during a thunderstorm.

Per a NOAA government website: "A thunderstorm's most striking feature is lightning which kills more than 80 people a year in the United States and injures over 400 people." (Source: http://www.erh.noaa.gov/lwx/lightning/va-lightning.htm)

Now let's consider that statistic against say insect (bees, wasps, fire ants, etc.) stings: annual death estimates from insect stings range from 50 to 150 per year; but more surprisingly....500,000 (yep you read that right: one half million) Americans show up at hospital emergency rooms after being stung by an insect.
(Source American College of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology article: http://www.acaai.org/patients/resources/allergies/Pages/insect-sting-facts.aspx)

As to traveling on the A.T., none of the shelters are grounded so they offer no protection against lightning strikes. Similarly, rock overhangs and shallow caves also provide no protection.

The only positive correlations I was able to make were: tall objects get hit more than short objects; ridgelines are much more dangerous than other parts of mountains/hills; areas/objects which have been subjected to lightning in the past are at a greater than average liklihood to be struck again in the future.

Other than exercising common sense (for example, don't be or be attached to the tallest object in the near vicinity; if you can smell ozone and/or feel the hair on your head stand up...or anywhere else for that matter, find the lowest area you can put your body into, etc.), the thing that I took away from all of my internet lightning research...and my own experience hammock hanging in the woods....is that you are much more likely to be injured or killed by the dead stag nearby or the widow-maker overhead that falls during or shortly after any moderate or severe weather.

BTW, you can try to protect yourself from falling trees/tree limbs/branches by just looking up before you hang your hammock....and you will be amazed that so few beginner or experienced hangers take the time to look up before they hook up.

The above information/rant is my take only....yours may vary. LOL

[bflorac]

If the current of lightning itself does not kill you, the exploding tree and tree parts will may. Have you ever seen a tree hit by lightning? Often there are 50 lb chunks a 100 feet away. Not to mention the falling parts above you. So, I'll take my chances in a shelter if one is available. If not, think low areas.

[gunner76]

No one gets out of this life alive !