Questions on going lite?

[The Weasel]

I'm one of those who think Ray Jardine carries too much weight (if you don't know who Ray Jardine is, you don't know that's a joke). I'm down to around 10 lbs FSO (from the skin out, i.e. including all worn clothes, boots, poles, hats etc) before food, water and fuel), and if anyone cares, I'd be glad to share my thoughts. Fully laden, I'm around 25 lbs. compared to the 49 lbs FSO I weighed in at Amicolala Falls. Despite missing a few things, being able to skip along the trails with that little has made life a LOT happier. If you have any questions, let me know.

"Well a promise made, is a debt unpaid, and the Trail has its own stern code." -- Robert Service

[wacocelt]

Hiya ultra-lighters... I'm here to learn the ropes. I have close to 6 months to get ready for next years Thru-Hike <hoping for a Yo-Yo> my only concern about going light is cost. Can some of you give some examples/advice of cheap or easily made light gear?
I'm considering using a military issue poncho liner and torso cut ridge rest for a sleeping arrangement. I have a few polypro shirts, all of them are long sleeve, but I normally hike shirtless even in mosquito season. I use a scratch made denatured alcohol stove to cook with and eat cold breakfast and lunch most of the time.
I plan to carry a little extra water... I'm a kidney stone factory, have had 7 and I'm only 31. Any heads up on light weight water containers and the like would be appreciated.
I can't wait to get you UL nuts fired up... I'm sure you'll have me busily slashing away at my 35-50 in no time. Thanks in advance for all the help. ;)

[Hammock Hanger]

Brawny and Rainmaker have hiker the PCT and the AT. They make all of their gear. On their site they will sell the gear, the patterns and the material. Give it a look see. I swa Brawny as she was literally blowing thru. She was definately an ultra-ultrsa-lighter. HH www.trailquest.net

[Kerosene]

Many hikers go with standard plastic soda bottles. These are very thin and can be replaced easily when they inevitably wear out. However, most of these bottles only have a narrow mouth, making them a little more difficult to fill and empty.

Alternatively, you could go with a flexible Nalgene water "bottle". While more expensive, it will last a lot longer, has a wide mouth with an attached cap, and weights only 2.5 ounces empty for the 1 liter size (versus 5 ounces for your standard hard-shell Nalgene bottle).

[SGT Rock]

For a wider mouth, Gatorade bottles have a wider mouth that is easy to fill.

There are other ways too, litle tricks that can reduce weight:

Get rid of the insulated mug and use an old Country Time Lemonade drink mix jar. Make a insulated cozy from an old closed cell foam pad and it weighs 1/2 the weight of your old insulated mug, plus now has multiple functions like mixing bowl, measuing cup, breakfast bowl, storage jar, etc.

Leave the whole mess kit back. All you need is a pot and plastic spoon. Your pot should have a lit, saves energy in the long run. Wal-Mart sells an Aluminum mug with a handle that weighs 3.4 ounces and has a 1.25 Qt capacity. All you need is a 0.2 ounce aluminum pie plate as a lid.

Make your own stove, don't use gas. While the fuel efficiency of a gas stove is really better, the base weight is so high it totally negates this. Making an alcohol stove can be totally free, and weighs 1-1.7 ounces depending on the model. Even with twice the fuel a gas stove uses, you come out lighter.

Cary only what you need. Instead of the 6 ounce bottle of soap, sunscreen, bug juice, etc. Limit yourself to carry only what you need.

There are a million cool little ideas we have all used, I love the little gems of knowledge. Cumulated, they can save as much weight as spending $300 on a lightweight sleeping bag.

[chris]

I was never able to build an alcohol stoved that worked as well as I wanted it to, due mostly to my lack of ability, but also because I usually tried to build one after drinking a bunch of beers. I finally got one working well: Cut off the bottom third of a beer can, stuff with insulation. Done. Make a pot stand out of a coffee can. Quick and cheap weight savings.

Another: If you are thruhiking or doing a long section, don't carry a tarp or tent and just use the shelters (bring earplugs).

Less cheap savings: Use a Photon microlight.

[wacocelt]

I weighed my pack today, 3lb 9oz. Thats about 1/5 of what I hope to get my total FSO to before food and water. Does anyone have examples of lighter packs or pack options that are fairly reasonable for someone on a somewhat frugal budget? I have heard several people mention frameless/padless packs... do these allow enough space to fit all gear including sleeping bag etc?

[SGT Rock]

Check out my review of the Moonbow Gearskin. I consider it one of the most outstanding pack ideas ever. I just ordered a second one last week!

[Peaks]

Not carrying a tent or tarp is one way to save weight, but I'm of the opinion that its better to carry some shelter with you. There are several good reasons for this. To keep this post short, I planned to use shelters most of the time. However, for various reasons, I wound up actually using my tent about 30% of the time. A tent gives you a lot of options that are not possible if you rely exclusively on shelters. Further, many people sleep better in their tent/tarp on the ground rather than the rigid shelter platform.

[wacocelt]

I really like the sound of the Moonbow Gearskin. The Hennessey Hammock sounds promising as well. I'm thinking that I can shelter hop the first few weeks, as I plan to start early enough and I travel fast enough to assure myself shelter space during the first few cold weeks.
So, as of now, my 'planned' gear is...

Moonbow Gearskin 28oz
Hennessey Hammock 34.5oz
Ultralight Alcohol Stove Package 2oz<Dancing Light Gear:this is the same design I was making myself on the trail, but much better quality>
Titanium pot and lid 4oz
small bic lighter 1oz
20z bottle denatured alcohol 23oz total
lexan spoon .3oz
2 flexible nalgene bottles 5oz
2 polypro shirts/pants 24oz total... one set wicking layer while hiking/ one set camp clothes
fleece shirt/pants 26.2oz total... insulating layer while hiking
Gore-tex parka and rain pants 29oz total
2 pair synthetic blend Hiking socks 6oz total... one for hiking one for camp
sock liners 1.5oz
poly/fleece 'ear' cap 3oz
fleece neck gaiter
.5oz neosporin 5 or 6 'band-aids' and 3oz duct tape for first aid and blister treatment
collapsable tooth brush, paste, floss 3oz
3oz TPaper in ziploc
trowel 2oz
walking stick 24oz
<<edit: forgot my filter... I own a Pur and Sweetwater, both of which are heavy as... nevermind, add about 1.5lbs:>>
I'm still trying to decide whether to try and tough it out and only buy a 20 degree bag and use a bag liner instead of buying 2 bags <which I really can't afford>. I also have yet to decide on what type of shoes to wear, I'm leaning toward some type of trail runner. I also need a light source.

So, the way I figure it, pre sleeping bag shoes and a light I'm at 15.5lbs FSO dry weight. I'll be mailing one set of polypors home after spring thaw is well underway.

Suggestions and advice are needed.

[SGT Rock]

Go ahead and carry a couple of stakes for setting up the hammock.

LED lights doen't have to be expensive Photon II lights, I have tried some others I prefer. I don't like headlamps.

Loose the filter, really. Polar Pure isn't that heavy and little to no iodine taste.

Loose the trowel and dig with a tent stake - just get a wide model. Dual purpose.


Get a good 20 degree bag and a liner. Wear clothes inside if it gets cold.

You will need a pad if you sleep in a hammock in cold weather. I reccomend either going to OWARE and getting a couple of their 60"x40" pads and trim them, or going to Wal-Mart and getting the 24"x70" eggcrate blue pad and trimming it to your size. Thermarest pads are not good in the hammock.

[The Weasel]

Waco:

(1) Do not - repeat DO NOT - go without some kind of shelter. You will NOT always be able to get space in a shelter, and while the trail maxim "there is always room for one more when it rains" may sound nice, you can't count on it, esp during thru hiker season. That's a good way to get resented in a hurry. And there will be times when the weather is so bad you HAVE to lay up somewhere for a night or even two, but where there is no shelter. Untralight does NOT mean "unprepared".

(2) Some suggestions on your gear list:

-- One nalgene bottle, 2 liter.
-- Eliminate the rain pants. Unnecessary. You will "sweat wet" with them on, and you'll be warm walking in the rain as long as you keep moving. Change to dry camp clothes on arrival at end of day.
-- Just take the "brush" part of the collapsible tooth brush
-- Eliminate the trowel. Use the "smearing" technique for feces (if you don't know it, get the non-humorous book, "How to **** in the Woods", which is exceptional. Pack out (in a ziploc) your TP.
-- Strongly consider using PolarPure iodine solution.
-- ADD: compass, whistle. MANDATORY.
-- ADD: Small knife (Swiss Army Classic - the tiny one with blade, file, scissors, tweezers, toothpick is recommended. Leave the toothpick home)
-- ADD: 50' of lacing (from good outfitter), lighter than para cord, and needed to fly your food bag when not at a shelter.
-- Strongly urge using two trekking poles. Your legs will thank you.
-- Strongly urge a sil-fabric water bag (about 1 oz) to carry water from water sources in the evening. Holds about 2 gal, saves some nasty walks a LONG way to springs. I could have sold a dozen of mine to envious people. (Instead, I shared the water.)
-- Go with the 20 degree bag, when it gets warm go with a $8 cheapo fleece "bag" from Walmart.

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

Maybe tweeking this gear list should be a seperate thread?

[Kerosene]

Waco-

The 34.5 oz. you quote for the Hennessy Hammock seems heavy. The Ultra Light Backpacker A-sym which I purchased weighs in at 28 oz. (Hennessy quotes 26 oz.). They have a new model called the Adventure Racer that uses lighter weight ripstop nylon that they claim comes in at under a pound without tree huggers! The Racer is also sized smaller, but there aren't many places you can pick up half a pound.

My SweetWater filter weighs 15 oz. inclusive of the viral filter. Replace the viral filter with a tube of ViralStop and you're down to perhaps 13 oz. I'm leaning towards PolarPure or Aquamira as a way to cut out another half-pound or more.

I agree that the trowel is superfluous.

There was a good discussion awhile back on the merits of a whistle versus using a pot to send an S.O.S. I came away thinking that I would ditch the whistle, since the sound doesn't carry very far and isn't necessarily very distinctive, in favor of hitting a rock against my pot. Not much in weight savings, but one less thing to worry about.

Consider replacing your relatively heavy Gore-tex parka with a Frogg Toggs or Marmot Precip jacket, saving a total of at least 19 oz. on your combined Gore-tex parka/pants combo.

Weasel's recommendation of a water bucket is good one; some of those springs can be quite a ways down the mountain. However, all of the sil-nyl water buckets are just that; buckets not bladders. A 2-gallon water bladder with spigot weighs in at 3-4 oz. (I haven't seen a syl-nyl version yet), plus you can inflate partially, wrap your fleece shirt around it, and use it as a surprisingly comfortable pillow (much more comfortable than a clothing-stuffed stuff sack).

Dont' forget the insect repellent!

[mlerch]

> plus you can inflate partially

Wow. I've been lurking on forums for a few years now, and that's about one of the best ideas I've ever seen.

I just went into my kitchen & grabbed my platy from a recent trip, filled it partially with air and lay down in my bedroom with it fitting perfectly under my neck.

Heading out for a trip on Fri. Gonna try that one. Neat..

[Uncle Wayne]

I've got to buy a new pack cover and notice several of you have mentioned the "Silnylon Pack Cover." How durable are these pack covers? The one I got from REI, same price but twice as heavy, has lasted for 10 years of heavy use. I have only seen pictures of the Silnylon cover. I'd appreciate any advice or opinions. Thanks.

[highway]

Consider separating all your gear in a few silnylon bags, that you seamseal before you use. Campmor has some if you aren't into making your own.
I have a large bag for sleeping bag(dont want to compress the down to much)a large one that holds my clothes and becomes my pillow at night, next size down for food, smallest is my "possibles" bag with 1st aid, spare batteries, etc., so, when it rains, pack gets wet, items in bag remain relatively damp. In the rain I think everything gets damp, if you are in it long enough, but never wet. Plus it is a great way to keep everything organized. No more rooting through your pack looking for a small itwm. Just remember which color bag its in...

I weigh everything and have a spreadsheet with every concievable item I could carry is categorized and weighed. Helps me to lighten the load, so to speak,m even to rearrange the load or compare like gear for weight, even before a trip. (Amazing what some people waste their time on.) Below is a copy of the section with the silnylon bags. The last weight is in hundredths of a pound. Multiply that figure by 16 to get ounces if you are more comfortable with those.

Sack, stuff, silicon nylon 10X21 0.07
Sack, stuff, silicon nylon 8X18 0.06
Sack, stuff, silicon nylon 7X15 0.04
Sack, stuff, silicon nylon 5X8 0.03

Just a suggestion

[Kerosene]

highway:

Did you purchase or make your stuff sacks? If purchased, from whom and for how much? If made, where did you find the fabric, about how much did it cost, and was it very difficult to sew?

[Hammock Hanger]

I got mine sil from QUestOutfitter. They do not have a web address but I'll look for their email address. They will send you a catalog. ALso there is a hiker who makes all of her own gear and buys sil by the bolt and is willing to resale. I'll go find her address. HH

[slabfoot]

1.1 0z. silnet slightly 2nd(I couldn't tell) for $5.85/yd. at outdoor wilderness fabrics. www.owfinc.com Good plan for waterproof bag in beyond backpacking by ray jardine. good luck.

[Hammock Hanger]

AT & PCT thrus who make all their own gear. Packs, Bags, Tents... will sell you the patterns or make for you. Will sell sil by the yard. Great site for other hiker info. www.trailquest.net
Hammock Hanger

[highway]

Campmor has then under "ultralite stuff bags
5"X8" wt. 0.5 oz/$8.99
6"x11" wt. 0.6 oz/$9.99
7"x15" wt. 0.8 oz/$10.99
8"x18" wt. 0.9 oz/$11.99
etc...to7X24 wt 1 oz/13.99
The total weight of numerous bags will weigh more than a pack cover, I would imagine, but you gain it back in pack organization. I can put my hand inside my loosened pack and from touch know which bag to pull out. There are not many and I have nothing loose in my pack.

The other reason I do this is from a suggestion on this site, from HH, I believe, on some post where she indicated that a pack's zippered lid was nothing more than a place to accumulate odds and ends where you did not know where to put. So, since my pack volume I need now is not what volume I needed 2 years ago, since I have been getting lighter, I am getting rid of the lid, which can be converted into a fanny pack I will absolutely never use, keep my outstanding McHale pack and loose a pound in weight as well as some volume ...Damn good idea of hers.

I once purchased some silnylon from AYCE at

http://www.thru-hiker.com/

who also has some patterns for doing your own, unless you are sewing challenged as I think I am.
Good Luck