View Full Version : Wildlife and Guns
I know this has been discussed before, but still many hikers are still very concerned about negative interactions with wildlife. The topic of bears seems to be a chief concern. Inevitably, someone suggests carrying and discharging firearms for protection.
I would like for those folks to refer to the Laws and Polices page at the www.nps.gov website for Yellowstone NP.
I have highlighted the park's position in the last paragraph. I think it's worth noting as it applies everywhere there are interactions with bears.
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.textWrappedAroundImage { margin-bottom:15px; } .floatingImage { width:150px; float:right; text-align:left; margin-left:15px; margin-bottom:8px; } .floatingImage p { padding:0; margin: 0; } .floatingImage p.credit { color: #aaa; font-size: 9px; text-transform: uppercase; } .floatingImage p.caption { color: #668033; } .clearfix:after { content: "."; display: block; height: 0; clear: both; visibility: hidden; } .clearfix {display: inline-block;} /* Hides from IE-mac \*/ .clearfix {display: block;} * html .clearfix {height: 1%;} /* end hide from IE-mac */ FIREARMS IN PARKS
As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.
The Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, was enacted May 22, 2009 and will become effective February 22, 2010. Section 512 of this law; Protecting Americans from Violent Crimes, supersedes the uniform treatment of firearm possession in the national park system outside Alaska under the regulations found at 36 C.F.R. 2.4.
It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. Yellowstone encompasses parts of Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. Each state has different regulations and these are listed below.
Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park (such as visitor centers, government offices, etc.); those places are marked with signs at all public entrances. Hunting and discharge of firearms remain prohibited in Yellowstone National Park.
*FIREARMS SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A WILDLIFE PROTECTION STRATEGY. BEAR SPRAY AND OTHER SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ARE THE PROVEN METHODS FOR PREVENTING BEAR AND OTHER WILDLIFE INTERACTIONS.
Don't know where or how that other stuff was posted between .....interactions with bears. and FIREARMS IN PARKS?
TIDE-HSV
06-20-2010, 00:21
Don't know where or how that other stuff was posted between .....interactions with bears. and FIREARMS IN PARKS?
It's called "HTML coding."
Graywolf
06-20-2010, 00:43
This is really getting to be a boring issue. The Black bears on teh east Coast should not be feared. Hikers have hikes up and down and east to west over the great Appalachian chain. Yes, there have been attacks, but mostly of the hikers stupidity. Blacks will usually turn and run into the forest before you even see them. Mostly the only thing you will see of a bear is his arse as he turns into the woods.
If you would like more info on bears and feel better about being in the woods, get educated on bears. Dont fear them. Thats all this is. here is a great site to start at and will answer alot of questions you may have:
www.bearstudy.org (http://www.bearstudy.org)
and:
www.bear.org (http://www.bear.org)
Both sites offer lots of usefull information..
Graywolf
This is really getting to be a boring issue. The Black bears on teh east Coast should not be feared. Hikers have hikes up and down and east to west over the great Appalachian chain. Yes, there have been attacks, but mostly of the hikers stupidity. Blacks will usually turn and run into the forest before you even see them. Mostly the only thing you will see of a bear is his arse as he turns into the woods.
If you would like more info on bears and feel better about being in the woods, get educated on bears. Dont fear them. Thats all this is. here is a great site to start at and will answer alot of questions you may have:
www.bearstudy.org (http://www.bearstudy.org)
and:
www.bear.org (http://www.bear.org)
Both sites offer lots of usefull information..
GraywolfUnfortunately, according to this, they don't always choose to "turn and run":-?:http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/pdf/Bear_Attacks.pdf
fiddlehead
06-20-2010, 02:44
For the 1st time in my life, I am contemplating carrying a gun on a hike for protection.
From monkeys.
1st time I ever met an animal who had no fear of man.
It is very scary.
I thought about a slingshot (wristrocket) but don't want to just wound him and piss him off.
Of course, I am talking about my hike here in Thailand.
There's no need to fear animals in the US that I know of. (with the exception of grizzlies, they are all afraid of you, and griz is too smart)
Sorry i didn't really understand the original post about codes and credit cards and how they might relate to firearms.
I don't think they (firearms) are allowed in any of our Nat. parks though. (for good reason)
Sierra Echo
06-20-2010, 08:12
Unfortunately, according to this, they don't always choose to "turn and run":-?:http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/pdf/Bear_Attacks.pdf
Bear attacks are like shark attacks and lightning strikes. You are more likely to die in a car accident then have any of those happen. Yet I don't see anyone posting threads about no longer driving or shuttling cause they could potentially die.
TIDE-HSV
06-20-2010, 09:43
I don't think they (firearms) are allowed in any of our Nat. parks though. (for good reason)
That used to be the law, but it changed very recently...
garlic08
06-20-2010, 09:55
We all know (most of the time) that there are risks involved in driving. That's why there's driver's education and licensing and law enforcement. Similarly, when hiking in potentially risky situations--whether in bear territory, during a lightning storm, fording fast water, negotiating a loose scree field, or severe weather--it is good to have a little knowledge of the risks involved and how to minimize them.
It's amazing to see the dichotomy between the websites posted above--one shows the nice gray-haired man cuddling the bear, the other lists the carnage over the last decade in North America.
When I was preparing for my CDT hike through Glacier, I researched the grizzly risk a little, trying to decide whether to carry pepper spray. I found something interesting--in the last ten years, most of the fatal bear attacks in the continental US were by black bears along the Appalachians. No doubt that's because of the concentration of ignorant humans, and it's certainly an infinitesimal risk. But I still kept it in mind during my AT hike the following year.
Fiddleback
06-20-2010, 11:03
There are many reasons and lots of statistics that one can use to support the use of bear spray in lieu of firearms. As with this thread's topic, we've gone over it before but that's not to say it doesn't bear repeating.:D
I am confident that bear spray is a better choice for recreationists. I know it's the better choice for the wildlife, and that often is missed in the discussion: Bear spray protects the bear as well as the hiker. It causes the bear to break off aggressive behavior, it ends 'attacks', it reduces the chance of injury to the hiker... All of that helps the bear. A bear that injures a hiker is, at the least, relocated and often euthanized. Bear spay can end an encounter before the bear gets into that serious trouble and it ends it without a wounded or dead bear as is the frequent result of using firearms.
Now, my home range is grizzly country after growing up backpacking in the MD/VA/WV area. My attitude is, 'if your concern about wildlife is such that you feel you must carry a firearm while backpacking, then you should backpack somewhere else.' This is recreation...in the wildlife's habitat...much of it set aside specifically to preserve the habitat for the wildlife. 'Our' recreation doesn't merit their harm...not when we have a choice to do otherwise.
IMO.
FB
I wonder if bear spray works on monkeys. Worth testing.
Again, I apologize for the potential confusion because of the unintended addition of the HTML coding in the OP.
The OP is actually a bridging of some related recent threads here on WB - Bear Activity, Bear Attacks, carrying firearms/weapons on the AT, and the new law allowing persons to carry firearns in NPs.
I know it sounds like a weird title that has nothing to do with carrying firearms or dealing with bears(wildlife), but there is a subsection in the Credit Card Accountabilty Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009 that now allows folks to carry fireams in NPs if they have previously met certain guidelines and adhere to the various laws.
I also posted that excerpt from the FIREARMS IN PARKS Yellowstone NP website because it notes a topic that those who are considering carrying a firearm or weapon(crossbow, slingshot, bow and arrow, blowgun, BB gun ,etc)on the AT, for whatever reason, typically fail to consider. There are various applicable federal, state, and local firearm and weapon laws that must be legally abided by. The AT travels through 14 states and 2 NPs, sometimes with different laws.
My main concern is for those who impulsively rush to grab a firearm as their first instinct to protect themselves from wildlife. As others have noted and the www.nps Yellowstone NP website also notes - *FIREARMS SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A WILDLIFE PROTECTION STRATEGY. BEAR SPRAY AND OTHER SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ARE THE PROVEN METHODS FOR PREVENTING BEAR AND OTHER WILDLIFE INTERACTIONS.
I too find this a rather boring issue. However, judging by the number of threads generated on WB about the potential dangers of interactions between humans and wildlife this is obviously a continuing concern for many who visit the outdoors. Along these lines there seems to be the most concern about interactions between bears and humans.
I know I'm rehashing some old material and have brought into play many topics, but I am glad to see this thread is going in the direction I hoped it would. Be aware of the risks involving wildlife without over-hyping the fear and risks, know and understand how human behavior does contribute to or causes those negative interactions with wildlife(it takes the focus off "problem" bears/wildlife and places the focus on how we as humans can alter our behavior to avoid almost all these negative bear/wildlife encounters without the need to use a gun), and lastly carrying and discharging firearms for personal safety against wildlife should be one of the last things we do to protect human life when in the outdoors.
Thanks everyone for their positive contributions.
Graywolf
06-20-2010, 19:19
The Trail is perfectly safe people. I am more scared of the dog next door jumping over the fence and grabbing my throat. More chance in that to happen. And the wise arse neighbor sitting there like nothing happens..
fiddlehead
06-20-2010, 20:36
I wonder if bear spray works on monkeys. Worth testing.
I think it would.
Getting it through customs could be a problem though.
I might try it. I have an old can at home in PA.
Never mind the html coding,
I'm just trying to get the connection between credit cards and bears.
Graywolf
06-20-2010, 21:02
Never mind the html coding,
I'm just trying to get the connection between credit cards and bears.
That was my first thought too, but I just left it alone..
The connection between credit cards and bears is (sorry but I have to say it) they have been known to CHARGE. I know I will have to pay for that terrible pun.
trailangelbronco
06-21-2010, 01:38
Black bears are not to be feared, usually.
I carry in some parts of the west, but most times I don't. Nobody should just go buy a pistol and carry it, anywhere. don't take a pistol hiking until you have been trained and have fired at least 300 rounds with it at a firing range.
Heck, both times I have been charged by a Grizz, I wouldn't have even had time to pull and aim it, they were so fast. First shot should be a warning shot, anyways.
A guy I knew and his wife were killed by a grizz while sleeping in their tent at night. They had a 45/70 guide gun but probably didn't even have time to pull it.
Graywolf
06-21-2010, 03:37
Black bears are not to be feared, usually.
I carry in some parts of the west, but most times I don't. Nobody should just go buy a pistol and carry it, anywhere. don't take a pistol hiking until you have been trained and have fired at least 300 rounds with it at a firing range.
Heck, both times I have been charged by a Grizz, I wouldn't have even had time to pull and aim it, they were so fast. First shot should be a warning shot, anyways.
A guy I knew and his wife were killed by a grizz while sleeping in their tent at night. They had a 45/70 guide gun but probably didn't even have time to pull it.
Wait, wait, do you have a card swaper??
skinewmexico
06-21-2010, 10:28
Any gun that would work like I wanted against a bear is heavier than I want to carry. And I thought the new law about firearms in national parks only applied to people with a concealed handgun permit.
Tuckahoe
06-21-2010, 10:37
What the new law does is bring the park service into line with state laws regarding firearms, concealed or openly carried. So, little to no chance of concealed or open carry of a pistol in New York or New Jersey in any national park. On the other hand Virginia is a free state.
I think it would.
Getting it through customs could be a problem though.
I might try it. I have an old can at home in PA.
Must be some online place like Cabela's that ships over there. If I were you and just got munched on, I would be trying! Quite a mouthful of teeth.
Kind of like the first time you see a seal yawn up close and personal.:eek:
My attitude is, 'if your concern about wildlife is such that you feel you must carry a firearm while backpacking, then you should backpack somewhere else.' This is recreation...in the wildlife's habitat...much of it set aside specifically to preserve the habitat for the wildlife. 'Our' recreation doesn't merit their harm...not when we have a choice to do otherwise.
IMO.
FB
And this is why I don't hike in Grizzly country. I feel I must carry a firearm when hiking in Grizzly country, so I don't hike there. I don't feel the need for a gun with Black Bears, so I'll stay on this side of the Mississippi for now.
Old Hiker
06-21-2010, 17:26
The connection between credit cards and bears is (sorry but I have to say it) they have been known to CHARGE. I know I will have to pay for that terrible pun.
No credit or debit cards, please, when paying. We only accept cash in small, unmarked, non-sequential bills. :rolleyes:
David S.
06-21-2010, 23:17
This just happened recently and is a pretty incredible story about an encounter between a grizzly and a film maker....with a gun.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/20/bc-grizzly-charge-leon-lorenz.html?ref=rss#socialcomments#ixzz0rVUB7vk8
Mountain Wildman
06-21-2010, 23:27
This just happened recently and is a pretty incredible story about an encounter between a grizzly and a film maker....with a gun.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/20/bc-grizzly-charge-leon-lorenz.html?ref=rss#socialcomments#ixzz0rVUB7vk8
Too close for comfort!!!:eek:
One of the comments was pretty funny no matter who you are...
"I was moved to tears by this correct use of a firearm."
Fiddleback
06-22-2010, 11:06
And this is why I don't hike in Grizzly country. I feel I must carry a firearm when hiking in Grizzly country, so I don't hike there. I don't feel the need for a gun with Black Bears, so I'll stay on this side of the Mississippi for now.
I miss the hardwood forests of the east...the variety/diversity is a real joy for me. But there is sooo much, both in scenery and wildlife, in the U.S. west that it shouldn't be missed/avoided. And for good or bad; very, very little of it is inhabited by grizzlys. Even then, there's less than 1500 of 'em.
When considering those 1500 bears and the potential interaction with the thousands of hikers, backpackers, hunters, and those of us that live among them...a combined tens of thousands of 'man-days' spent each year in the bears' territory...those bears are remarkably sedate.:D
The same can be said for the 50000 black bears spread throughout the country...
FB