View Full Version : Western large mammal populations: Split from Bear kills hiker
trailangelbronco
06-20-2010, 13:55
I live in nearby Idaho and hike in Yellowstone alot.Someone gets killed or mauled almost every year. I have had two close encounters with Grizz who came at me, but then lost interest. Both times, I almost pissed myself and slowley started backing up. Ruins an otherwise great day of hiking.
They are reintroducing Grizz in Idaho, and the ones that they put here are spreading faster then anyone expected. Same with the Wolf, who are killing our Elk herds.
The decisions to move grizz here are made by folks who don't live or hike in Idaho.
Yellowstone is a dangerous place to hike, but we do it anyways because it is all so beautiful. Anyone who hikes their is aware of the danger, my thoughts go out to this man's family but he also probably went out the way he wanted to.
Feral Bill
06-20-2010, 15:16
I live in nearby Idaho and hike in
They are reintroducing Grizz in Idaho, and the ones that they put here are spreading faster then anyone expected. Same with the Wolf, who are killing our Elk herds.
In northern Idaho, the same complaints about wolves are heard loud and often, yet special hunts are held to reduce elk numbers and protect crops. How many people are killed yearly by collisions with elk? If hunters are used to unnaturally high elk numbers and insist on maintaining that situation I have no sympathy.
Grizzleys, meanwhile have no record of killing or mauling anyone up north. I hike in grizzly country often, and sleep soundly.
double d
06-21-2010, 00:30
I live in nearby Idaho and hike in Yellowstone alot.Someone gets killed or mauled almost every year. I have had two close encounters with Grizz who came at me, but then lost interest. Both times, I almost pissed myself and slowley started backing up. Ruins an otherwise great day of hiking.
They are reintroducing Grizz in Idaho, and the ones that they put here are spreading faster then anyone expected. Same with the Wolf, who are killing our Elk herds.
The decisions to move grizz here are made by folks who don't live or hike in Idaho.
Yellowstone is a dangerous place to hike, but we do it anyways because it is all so beautiful. Anyone who hikes their is aware of the danger, my thoughts go out to this man's family but he also probably went out the way he wanted to.
No offense, but come on now, how many elk are still running around in Idaho? Maybe 15,000 thousand or more? Wolves killing them off? Don't think so......I'm sure high paying elk hunters are killing them off much, much faster (and yes I've been to Idaho a million and one times, going again this August).
trailangelbronco
06-21-2010, 01:16
Let me tell you, the Elk herds are down almost 60% in just ten years. Hunters never took the numbers down that low before for as long as Idaho Fish and Game has kept stats. I know five forest rangers and many BLM employees and they too are in favor of moving the Wolf out. Best area is in Canada, along with the Grizz.
Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?
No offense, but come on now, how many elk are still running around in Idaho? Maybe 15,000 thousand or more? Wolves killing them off? Don't think so......I'm sure high paying elk hunters are killing them off much, much faster (and yes I've been to Idaho a million and one times, going again this August).
trailangelbronco
06-21-2010, 01:21
I hike in Glacier almost every year. Tell ya what, someday you will walk up on momma bear and her cubs, and she will run at you head low and full speed. If she stops or just runs you off, after you clean your pants out and climb into your tent, tell me later how soundly you sleep that night.
In northern Idaho, the same complaints about wolves are heard loud and often, yet special hunts are held to reduce elk numbers and protect crops. How many people are killed yearly by collisions with elk? If hunters are used to unnaturally high elk numbers and insist on maintaining that situation I have no sympathy.
Grizzleys, meanwhile have no record of killing or mauling anyone up north. I hike in grizzly country often, and sleep soundly.
Feral Bill
06-21-2010, 01:29
Let me tell you, the Elk herds are down almost 60% in just ten years. Hunters never took the numbers down that low before for as long as Idaho Fish and Game has kept stats. I know five forest rangers and many BLM employees and they too are in favor of moving the Wolf out. Best area is in Canada, along with the Grizz.
Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?
Those eastern states that are over run with deer could use some wolves.
Sierra Echo
06-21-2010, 07:10
Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?
When a bear or wolf makes its way to close to "civilization" they are trapped and released back into the mountains.
Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?
Well then you must have missed it. Red wolves were reintroduced into the Smokies a few years back as well as elk. Griz were never natives.
Pedaling Fool
06-21-2010, 07:28
I live in nearby Idaho and hike in Yellowstone alot.Someone gets killed or mauled almost every year. I have had two close encounters with Grizz who came at me, but then lost interest. Both times, I almost pissed myself and slowley started backing up. Ruins an otherwise great day of hiking.
They are reintroducing Grizz in Idaho, and the ones that they put here are spreading faster then anyone expected. Same with the Wolf, who are killing our Elk herds.
The decisions to move grizz here are made by folks who don't live or hike in Idaho.
Yellowstone is a dangerous place to hike, but we do it anyways because it is all so beautiful. Anyone who hikes their is aware of the danger, my thoughts go out to this man's family but he also probably went out the way he wanted to.
You sound as though you want the wilderness experience without the "wild" part. I see the same here in the east with the fear of reintroducing the mountain lion.
those eastern states that are over run with deer could use some wolves.
nimby!!!!!!!!!!!!:d:d:d
skinewmexico
06-21-2010, 10:22
Let me tell you, the Elk herds are down almost 60% in just ten years. Hunters never took the numbers down that low before for as long as Idaho Fish and Game has kept stats. I know five forest rangers and many BLM employees and they too are in favor of moving the Wolf out. Best area is in Canada, along with the Grizz.
Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?
Amen brother! Always a bunch of Yankees wanting to tell the stupid people in the West how to run their lands. Personally, I think relocating grizzlys and coywolves to the NE is a great idea, native or not. If it's a good idea for some of us, it should be a good idea for all of us.
double d
06-21-2010, 11:03
Let me tell you, the Elk herds are down almost 60% in just ten years. Hunters never took the numbers down that low before for as long as Idaho Fish and Game has kept stats. I know five forest rangers and many BLM employees and they too are in favor of moving the Wolf out. Best area is in Canada, along with the Grizz.
Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?
OKay, thanks for your comments, but.......two points: give me your accurate data sources (outside of hearsay) with the 60% quote, I highly, highly doubt your elk numbers are based on wolf kills (now....robents and rabbits, that would be different!) and my second point: many areas of Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming and even Colorado (a state I lived in for many years) have prime areas for wolves that humans and predators can co-exist, maybe moving more of them to Canada is a version of NIMBY for the states. Also, I have no problem hiking in Grizz and wolf country, do it all the time each summer and I'm gonna be out in Idaho-Montana in late July-early August to do just that-no problems if one takes the time to understand hiking with common sense out West.
double d
06-21-2010, 11:13
Amen brother! Always a bunch of Yankees wanting to tell the stupid people in the West how to run their lands. Personally, I think relocating grizzlys and coywolves to the NE is a great idea, native or not. If it's a good idea for some of us, it should be a good idea for all of us.
Haaa....I like your way of thinking in terms of using age old stereotypes of us Northerns and folks from the N.E., but....you Texans helped to lose the big war of 1861-1865, so some of us Yankees still get to help in making the rules for you fellers' down in Texas, especially for those with "all hat and no cattle" types down in your state.
Alligator
06-21-2010, 11:51
Keep it civil folks, no need to paint each other with such broad strokes.
double d
06-21-2010, 13:46
Keep it civil folks, no need to paint each other with such broad strokes.
True! Very interesting topic
cowboy nichols
06-21-2010, 13:52
Shucks, Just relocate the people.
writeronthestorm
12-29-2010, 01:36
I hike in Grizz/wolf country all the time and I love it. Yeah, you have to be careful and always mindful of what your doing, and I'll admit it's tougher to sleep. But they add to the savagery and the experience of being in the wild. I'm proud that these big predators are still here.
SouthMark
12-29-2010, 09:33
When a bear or wolf makes its way to close to "civilization" they are trapped and released back into the mountains.
Our is it "civilization" makes it way to close to bear and wolf habitat?
"Funny, I don't see any posts on here about relocating Wolf or Grizz back east! What, you guys don't want them in Georgia, Maryland, or along the trail that you hike on or the land that you hunt on? You don't want Grizz in the forests behind the house that your kids play in?"
Hey, don't be draggin' Maryland into this, we don't want no stinkin' Grizz or Wolves here!
We've got enough problems with the coyote killing pets. You know when they've moved into your neighborhood, people's dogs and cats start going missing.
WILLIAM HAYES
12-29-2010, 12:31
yankees bless their hearts
Joshuatree
12-29-2010, 14:56
I live in nearby Idaho and hike in Yellowstone alot.Someone gets killed or mauled almost every year. I have had two close encounters with Grizz who came at me, but then lost interest. Both times, I almost pissed myself and slowley started backing up. Ruins an otherwise great day of hiking.
They are reintroducing Grizz in Idaho, and the ones that they put here are spreading faster then anyone expected. Same with the Wolf, who are killing our Elk herds.
The decisions to move grizz here are made by folks who don't live or hike in Idaho.
Yellowstone is a dangerous place to hike, but we do it anyways because it is all so beautiful. Anyone who hikes their is aware of the danger, my thoughts go out to this man's family but he also probably went out the way he wanted to.
Yes its a danger to go out into areas with large predators. Bears, Cougars, alligators, sharks and wolves to an extent all can see us as a threat ot food. it doesn't stop people from moving onto the water in alligator country it doesn't stop swimmers and surfers from going in the ocean.
Your right Yellowstone is a dangerous place. It was set up to preserve both the natural wonders and wildlife. as a way of showing people what the west looked like before we tamed it. Its also an active geothermal area and more people are killed or injured by the well marked hot spots then by the wildlife.
As far as the wolves killing elk look at the herds in yellowstone they are healther and more robust now then in prewolf days. Wisconsin has wolves now too. Ours wandered in from canada through minnesota we now have to live with them. Deer hunter blame the wolves for lack of success but won't blame the harsh winters or year of over grazing by out of control deer populations. We also have a large population of black bears while not as dangerous as grizzlies they are still unnerving when they hang around backcountry campgrounds looking for scraps, they are alot quieter and sneakier then you would think.
The bears and wolves spreading faster then first believed yep they do that. they are looking for food, dens, and mates. Its the nature of the animal. Its the same thing humans do.
Your two encounters with Grizzlies where warning charges. Its good they "lost Interst" otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. You entered an area that the bear was using, it was protecting a food source or its young. it would of used other body lanuage to communicate its discomfort with you before mock charging. such as turning sidways to show how big it is, yawning to show its teeth, swaying back and forth. If your worried about being attacked maybe it would be smart to learn the classic warming signs animals use to show discomfort with a situation they always warn before they attack. Unless they are seeing dinner then its part of the dangers of going into the back counrty.
Idaho has more than likely had pockets of Grizzlies and Wolves surviving before the attention to reintroduce them to wilderness areas brought greater field studies. it was belived they were moving back in from canada and montana or that they had survived in isolated areas. I would personally be more worried about Moose during the fall more people are killed and injuried by agressive moose then bears. Ask people who spend time out in the bush in Canada and alaska what animals they are most dangerous and moose will be on the top of the list.
Snowleopard
12-29-2010, 16:08
... Idaho has more than likely had pockets of Grizzlies and Wolves surviving before the attention to reintroduce them to wilderness areas brought greater field studies. it was belived they were moving back in from canada and montana or that they had survived in isolated areas.
That's thought to have happened with black bears in Massachusetts; small numbers survived in isolated spots in the Berkshires. These combined with black bears migrating in from NY, VT and NH. They're now common in this area but I haven't seen one here.
Wolves: the coyotes that are now common in New England seem to be hybrids with wolf. They don't seem to have had much effect on the deer population here.
Joshuatree
12-29-2010, 18:22
Snow Lepoard, that has happened alot in the US as areas revert back to wilderness and the bounties payed for predators are dropped. Animals move around too when populations get to high in one area or food becomes scarce. Wisconsin never released any wolves but we now have a healthy population of them 350 to 500 animals depending on who you listen too. We get moose that wander in to the state from the UP of michigan or Minnesota the same with Cougars. they aren't sure how they got here but we also have a small but growing population with a couple of confimed cub sightings. It's amazing how quickly animals can move into an area and flouish, and how elusive large animals are when your looking to count them for population studies
I have to say the idea that Yellowstone is dangerous because of Grizzly bears is a little absurd. From what I could find there have been less than 10 fatalities in the park in the last century.
4eyedbuzzard
12-29-2010, 18:56
I would personally be more worried about Moose during the fall more people are killed and injuried by agressive moose then bears. Ask people who spend time out in the bush in Canada and alaska what animals they are most dangerous and moose will be on the top of the list.
Yep. Same here in New England. People worry about bears and wolves (yeah, we have a few wolves - not many), but it's the moose that is the biggest danger. Many people don't realize that they're territorial, especially around their feeding habitats, or how aggressive they can be especially during the rut, which coincides with AT NOBO's coming through in September and October. It's often a similar story everywhere throughout the world though. Many would think the lion, or elephant, or hippo would be the most dangerous African animal, but it's the cape buffalo that kills more humans than any other. Big animals with hooves and horns ain't to be messed with.
Odd Man Out
12-29-2010, 21:05
Yep. Same here in New England. People worry about bears and wolves (yeah, we have a few wolves - not many), but it's the moose that is the biggest danger....
Read this article about the Iditarod. It says "Moose present a more dramatic danger (than accidents). More than once, the cantankerous animals have attacked teams, killing dogs or kicking mushers. In the most notorious example, a moose stomped through Susan Butcher's 1985 team, killing several dogs and forcing the future champion to drop from the race. Every year, moose severely injure at least one recreational dog musher in Southcentral Alaska." I guess they don't have wolves and bears up there;)
http://www.travelmaniac.com/iditarod/iditarodx.htm
rainmaker
12-29-2010, 23:14
yankees bless their hearts
Now you now full well that if it wasn't for the Yankees Aiken would be the same size as Windsor. Very few of us good old Southern boys played polo and built big old houses off Whisky Road. Shoot your firebrand state Senator is a Yankee. LOL.
I tell you the predator I don't like the most... Deer ticks.
I've had Lyme disease twice and I think I'd rather get charged by a grizzly bear.
mweinstone
12-29-2010, 23:31
animals are good. places without animals are bad.life with danger makes smart people. life without dangers festers weak silly people. animals dont need manegment. people do need manegment. our world is upside down. there. now ive set you both straight.
Shucks, Just relocate the people.
Great idea :)
4eyedbuzzard
12-30-2010, 23:46
I tell you the predator I don't like the most... Deer ticks.
I've had Lyme disease twice and I think I'd rather get charged by a grizzly bear.
Yeah, deadliest creature is undoubtably the mosquito. Little bugs sure spread a lot of disease. I once pcicked over 30 ticks off of me out in Utah. Found several more that evening that I missed that dug in. Figured for sure I'd come down with Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Got lucky I suppose and never a symptom. Ticks give me the creeps.