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trailangelbronco
06-25-2010, 23:05
I was on a dayhike in Boise today, up in the foothills above town. I came across two bike cops and a lady who had lost her Pit to a Cougar.

She was hiking with the Pit on a leash and the Coug came out of the brush, grabbed the Pit and shook/broke it's neck and drug it off right in front of the terrified lady. She said that the dog didn't even have time to fight back, and that she didn't dare try to fight the Cougar off.

They have been building home further and further up in the hills the past few years and more deer and Cougar have been coming down.

double d
06-26-2010, 00:00
Cool-law of the jungle-I'll take the cougar over the pit any day.

fiddlehead
06-26-2010, 00:07
Yes, cougars and mt. lions don't like when dogs are in their territory.
I saw a huge mt lion in southern California stalk a Doberman once until I scared him off.
They won't attack something if they have a chance to lose either.
I wouldn't take a dog into big cat country.

Feral Bill
06-26-2010, 01:10
.
I wouldn't take a dog into big cat country.

That would be hard in Idaho. It's all big cat country. Surrounding states, too.
There was one in my city back yard a few years ago, mid day.

RedneckRye
06-26-2010, 01:11
Go Cats!!!!
Hopefully the powers that be don't decide to go on a killing spree of the local predators.

trailangelbronco
06-26-2010, 01:55
Still, pretty ballsy of the cat to attack the dog with a human next to it, and so many other people on the trail. I take my dog up in cougar country all of the time. All wilderness out here is Coug country, can't avoid em. You don't see em, unless you make a point to always look up in the trees. I once saw a huge cat in a tree about 20 yards from me. Basically, a slightly smaller tiger.

double j
06-26-2010, 01:57
i own 2 very friendly pits both are around 100 pnds something happens to my dogs somebody or some thing will pay a price. That just shows that you need to know your surroundings before heading out.

fiddlehead
06-26-2010, 02:27
i own 2 very friendly pits both are around 100 pnds something happens to my dogs somebody or some thing will pay a price. .

What are you gonna do? Sue the wild animal?
Take his wallet?
I don't understand this comment. Sorry.

Graywolf
06-26-2010, 03:06
More civilization encroaches into wilderness, more encounters will occur. Dont want encounters, dont encroach.. 1 up for the Cougar...WooHoo!!!

double j
06-26-2010, 03:12
What are you gonna do? Sue the wild animal?
Take his wallet?
I don't understand this comment. Sorry.

i wouldn't sue anyone i would never have my pets in this type of environment . Thats like putting a mouse into a snakes cage. I'm surprised this made the news. If it was the pit attacking something then it would be all over CNN.

Egads
06-26-2010, 05:47
The dog did it's job; it might have been her if the dog wasn't there

Skidsteer
06-26-2010, 07:05
The poor dog didn't have a chance with the leash on.

Anumber1
06-26-2010, 08:00
Great, now all the gangsta-kids in my neighborhood are going to start buying cougars

Pedaling Fool
06-26-2010, 08:39
They have been building home further and further up in the hills the past few years and more deer and Cougar have been coming down.
We have well over 300 million people in this country and the number continues to grow quickly since the U.S. is the number one destination for immigrants from around the world - we got to put them somewhere. And it's not just living space, for every person there needs to be X-amount of space alloted for agriculture to feed us. Not to mention other forms of infrastucture that need to expand to support our lifestyles. Look at everything you have in your house...where did it come from? Where ever it came from it needed a factory (real estate) to produce it.

Bottom line: "they" is we.

kanga
06-26-2010, 08:53
Go Cats!!!!
Hopefully the powers that be don't decide to go on a killing spree of the local predators.


More civilization encroaches into wilderness, more encounters will occur. Dont want encounters, dont encroach.. 1 up for the Cougar...WooHoo!!!

I understand the laws of nature but y'all are cheering that a ladys dog got killed right in front of her. That's sick.

JAK
06-26-2010, 09:12
I think we have do draw some clear lines, and include some grey areas between these clear lines. There should be areas that are protected from predators like cougars, zero tollerance. There should also be areas where cougars and their habitat are clearly protected from development and interference from humans. Then there need to be some grey areas in between, and I'm not really sure what sort of rules should apply there. Right now it all seems to be grey areas surounding protected human overdevelopment, with overdevelopment expanding into the grey areas of pseudo-natural habitat.

The problem is that we don't place any real value on natural capital. How much is the cougar population worth to North America, in terms of dollars? I'm not sure it is a fair question though, because it is not really clear how you can separate a natural species from its natural habitat. The real natural capital is all of the natural habitat of North America, with species like cougars being a fairly integral component of some parts of it. But how much do we all lose in value, in terms of dollars, when a development takes place and natural habitat is destroyed?

When we drive along a highway, and see a wonderful view, or simply go to bed at night dreaming about all the natural habitat of North America, how much less value do we have from one year to the next, or one generation to the next? Should we only be concerned about that which we own personally, or collectively through government land? If property is owned privately, and is developed, are we losing nothing, because it never belonged to us?

When we calculated our net worth, and compare it to our grand-parents, do we consider how much less natural capital we have compared to them? When we think of our grand-children's grandchildren, do we consider that it is very likely that they will have considerably less of both forms of capital, natural and economic, and perhaps less social capital also?

Anyhow, even if we were doing everything right, and we reached some sort of sustainable balance, there would still be incidents like this one, in the grey areas where human and cougar habitat overlap. It would be considered unfortunate, but we would perhaps have a better understanding of the statistical inevitability of it, as with a large percentage of motor vehicle accidents. The only time we get really upset with motor vehicle deaths is when criminal negligence is involved, or when it is really sad, like when a school bus goes off the road even if is no ones fault.

Cougars are still treated much as an enemy however, even in their habitat, if there is one. Pit bulls are considered enemies by many people also though, yet we allow people to own them as pets, even though they kill more people than cougars. I would imagine cougars would kill just as many, if not more, if we replaced all our pit-bulls with cougars.

Interesting event. Thought provoking. Can't really put my finger on it though. Not really sure what I'm trying to say.

trailangelbronco
06-26-2010, 10:39
She let go of the leash pretty quick. Leash or no Leash, no dog in the world is any match for a hungry coug.

skinewmexico
06-26-2010, 10:53
The poor dog didn't have a chance with the leash on.

It didn't have a chance with the leash off. Gotta love the people in big towns back east cheering the cougars. Be a different story if it was in your back yard. Only a matter of time until it's people instead of dogs.

yaduck9
06-26-2010, 10:56
Great, now all the gangsta-kids in my neighborhood are going to start buying cougars



HHuuuuummm......that may have a few side effects but overall it could work out to everyone's benefit.:eek:

yaduck9
06-26-2010, 11:01
We have well over 300 million people in this country and the number continues to grow quickly since the U.S. is the number one destination for immigrants from around the world - we got to put them somewhere. And it's not just living space, for every person there needs to be X-amount of space alloted for agriculture to feed us. Not to mention other forms of infrastucture that need to expand to support our lifestyles. Look at everything you have in your house...where did it come from? Where ever it came from it needed a factory (real estate) to produce it.

Bottom line: "they" is we.


"We have met the enemy, and he is us" POGO

double d
06-26-2010, 11:06
More civilization encroaches into wilderness, more encounters will occur. Dont want encounters, dont encroach.. 1 up for the Cougar...WooHoo!!!

1,000,000 percent correct-don't take a knife (a dog) to a gunfight (a cougar). Unless of course the cougar is an "older" women.

double d
06-26-2010, 11:13
It didn't have a chance with the leash off. Gotta love the people in big towns back east cheering the cougars. Be a different story if it was in your back yard. Only a matter of time until it's people instead of dogs.

Ohhh please Tex-cougars have and will from time to time attack humans, heard of one in California attack a jogger while I was there a few years ago. Cougars will attack, just like dogs do and to us big city fellers' out in the Midwest and "back East", thats just life in the big city.

Fiddleback
06-26-2010, 11:14
On the other hand...

Rightly or wrongly, dogs are used to hunt cougars. Puppies are also used successfully...but that's a different kind of cougar.;)

FB

Virginia Trails
06-26-2010, 11:14
I understand the laws of nature but y'all are cheering that a ladys dog got killed right in front of her. That's sick.

Thank you! I was reading these posts, jaw dropped. This woman just saw her pet killed. Where's the empathy?

mudhead
06-26-2010, 13:24
I was on a dayhike in Boise today, up in the foothills above town.
They have been building home further and further up in the hills the past few years and more deer and Cougar have been coming down.

Visible from Boise proper?

I seem to remember all that ground was unstable. Maybe codes have changed.

Do they intend to "track" the cougar?

Panzer1
06-26-2010, 14:29
I understand the laws of nature but y'all are cheering that a ladys dog got killed right in front of her. That's sick.

yea, I agree. no one should be cheering.

Panzer

double d
06-26-2010, 14:44
yea, I agree. no one should be cheering.

Panzer

True, I own four dogs myself and love each one, so seeing it from the perception of the dog owner, we (I for one) shouldn't be joking about it.

skinewmexico
06-26-2010, 14:59
We're seeing the explosion of predators, too much food to be eaten.

weary
06-26-2010, 21:12
I understand the laws of nature but y'all are cheering that a ladys dog got killed right in front of her. That's sick.
That's a defendable opinion, for sure. But, not terribly logical. I think the cheering stems from the realization that our society has not been kind to the native creatures over the centuries. We've killed wildlife for fun and killed wildlife to protect our preferred domestic animals, dogs, tiny cats, and to protect commerically valuable species like cattle, and sheep.

We all tend to cheer the underdog. And the underdog in this instance is not the lady's beloved pit bull, but the wild cats that have been killed over the decades to near extinction.

And I suspect the cheering in part is based on her choice of canine pets. There are dog species known for their gentleness. And dogs known for their killing instincts. Pit bulls rank among the latter.

Weary

trailangelbronco
06-26-2010, 21:15
True If I had posted that the Dog was a Yellow Lab, the responses would have been very different.

Alot of people just don't like Pits.

weary
06-26-2010, 21:25
True If I had posted that the Dog was a Yellow Lab, the responses would have been very different.

Alot of people just don't like Pits.
And though I've never done a study, apparently for good reasons. I know a skilled trainer can train any dog speciies to be gentle. But pit bulls are often chosen as pets because most seem to think that pit bulls can more easily than most species be trained as attack dogs.

Weary

rickb
06-26-2010, 22:01
He is an article on another recently attacked dog.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/18/bc-chetwynd-cougar-attack.html

Scary stuff.

I'd still much rather face a cougar in the mountains than an unleashed pit bull on a country road walk, but not sure which really poses more risk.

(BTW, I saw my first Massachusetts bear today, but it was from the car window so not quite perfect. Now I have at least one in 7 AT states, though. We pulled over to watch it cross RT 2 100 yards west of the French King Bridge)

fiddlehead
06-26-2010, 22:13
Ohhh please Tex-cougars have and will from time to time attack humans, heard of one in California attack a jogger while I was there a few years ago. Cougars will attack, just like dogs do and to us big city fellers' out in the Midwest and "back East", thats just life in the big city.

I don't think a mt. lion or cougar has ever attacked a backpacker. (the pack makes us look bigger)
They will attack smaller size joggers, if they know they could win the fight, but will not attack anyone they think they might lose to. IMO.

vamelungeon
06-26-2010, 22:19
That's a defendable opinion, for sure. But, not terribly logical. I think the cheering stems from the realization that our society has not been kind to the native creatures over the centuries. We've killed wildlife for fun and killed wildlife to protect our preferred domestic animals, dogs, tiny cats, and to protect commerically valuable species like cattle, and sheep.

We all tend to cheer the underdog. And the underdog in this instance is not the lady's beloved pit bull, but the wild cats that have been killed over the decades to near extinction.

And I suspect the cheering in part is based on her choice of canine pets. There are dog species known for their gentleness. And dogs known for their killing instincts. Pit bulls rank among the latter.

Weary

Pit bulls are the gentle, intelligent, loyal dogs. If one isn't it's because of a bad owner who's mistreated it.
I'm with Kanga 100% on this.

wcgornto
06-26-2010, 23:04
Pit bulls are the gentle, intelligent, loyal dogs. If one isn't it's because of a bad owner who's mistreated it.
I'm with Kanga 100% on this.

I hear this often and then I hear about the sweet, gentle, friendly pit bull that snaps and mauls or kills a small child. Somehow, I don't think that all such incidents involve mistreated dogs.

TrailSquirrel
06-26-2010, 23:08
I hear this often and then I hear about the sweet, gentle, friendly pit bull that snaps and mauls or kills a small child. Somehow, I don't think that all such incidents involve mistreated dogs.
can be
I remember hearing from an aninal control officer that there are two different types of pit bulls, American and English. He said the English ones can be a lot meaner.

Graywolf
06-26-2010, 23:24
Pit bulls are the gentle, intelligent, loyal dogs. If one isn't it's because of a bad owner who's mistreated it.
I'm with Kanga 100% on this.

I disagree. Pitts maybe intelligent, but they are very unpredictable. I have seen pitts trained to be lovable, cutly, house dogs, just to turn on their owner without any hesatation. They are very dangerous. Just look at the news lines. They are a result of inbreed breeding, and that is a dangerous combination.

Feral Bill
06-26-2010, 23:58
I'm not a pitbull fan by any means, but I have not seen more than annecdotes (such as my wonderful ex boss being mauled). Certainly there is some actual research on this topic.

Many Walks
06-27-2010, 00:15
I don't think a mt. lion or cougar has ever attacked a backpacker. (the pack makes us look bigger)
They will attack smaller size joggers, if they know they could win the fight, but will not attack anyone they think they might lose to. IMO.
I agree, the pack makes the hiker look bigger and more of a threat. Another point to consider, the cougar will generally strike a human from behind targeting the head and neck. The pack would cover that area and would most likely confuse it. There have been several documented cases in California of cougars attacking day hikers, runners and even bicyclists, but I don't recall hearing of any backpackers being attacked.

Lemni Skate
06-27-2010, 06:27
Us people out east don't worry about cougars, but we worry about pit bulls. I've lived in my house for 5 years and I can REMEMBER off the top of my head SIX children in my county and a neighboring county that were killed or seriously mauled by pit bulls. One was a five year old boy only seven houses down from me who was killed by his family pit bull (I live in the country so that's about a mile and a half away). In half of these cases the dog was a friendly family pet. My sister was over at a friends house about four months ago and they told her how friendly their pit bull was and not a week later that friendly pit bull ran out in the road a killed a dog that was being taken for a walk by its owner (on a leash). One (not on a leash) went after my 75 year old father has he was walking along a path near his home last year. My dad managed to dodge it and get it thrown in the canal behind him. My mother saw the whole thing and they both believe my father was lucky not to have been seriously mauled (he used to be a policeman and had been trained to fight off agressive dogs but that was 40 years ago). If I hear that someone owns a pit bull I think there is something seriously wrong with them mentally (maybe unfair, but that's the conclusion I draw). Of course, almost without exception these dogs were "very sweet" and they had never acted badly before.

Cougars? Not a concern.

Jonnycat
06-27-2010, 08:58
Good - one less pit monster in the world.

double d
06-27-2010, 12:04
If I'm not mistaken, but I believe Denver has outlawed the ownership of Pit Bulls? Or at least Denver tried to outlaw them.

generoll
06-27-2010, 14:04
maybe they should outlaw Cougars. the four legged kind anyway.

kanga
06-27-2010, 20:09
That's a defendable opinion, for sure. But, not terribly logical. I think the cheering stems from the realization that our society has not been kind to the native creatures over the centuries. We've killed wildlife for fun and killed wildlife to protect our preferred domestic animals, dogs, tiny cats, and to protect commerically valuable species like cattle, and sheep.

We all tend to cheer the underdog. And the underdog in this instance is not the lady's beloved pit bull, but the wild cats that have been killed over the decades to near extinction.

And I suspect the cheering in part is based on her choice of canine pets. There are dog species known for their gentleness. And dogs known for their killing instincts. Pit bulls rank among the latter.

Weary

That is absolute crap. That's like blaming me for slavery cause I'm white.

JAK
06-27-2010, 20:14
I think small children bear too much of the risk of having these types of breeds around.

JAK
06-27-2010, 20:18
There was a young boy killed here a few years ago by Rotweillers.
One of the paramedics had to be sedated afterwards.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1067803057800_54/?hub=Canada

JAK
06-27-2010, 20:22
Here is the story on the public inquiry...
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20031103/rottweiler_inquest031103?hub=CP24Sports

generoll
06-27-2010, 20:27
no one cuts through the BS quite like Kanga.

Appalachian Tater
06-27-2010, 21:54
We need some cougars around here to take care of some of the pit bulls. If you look at abandoned animals in shelters you will see that pit bull mixes are the most common breed.

The blame goes to the owner for taking a domesticated pet where it has no business going.

fiddlehead
06-27-2010, 22:35
Don't know why we always have to place blame when something bad happens.
**** happens!
Not everyone is aware that cougars attack dogs that are in their territory.
There's not a whole lot of cougars left to make it a well known fact.

It is an unfortunate occurrence. (the fact that it happened to a pit bull makes some happier than others, that's all)

(personally, I would prefer to be attacked by a cougar than a pit bull but both would be anything other than desirable.)
Proper response would be to fight back with either one but the cougar would most likely break off the attack once you do fight back. Not so with the pit-bull.

generoll
06-28-2010, 07:01
(personally, I would prefer to be attacked by a cougar than a pit bull but both would be anything other than desirable.)
Proper response would be to fight back with either one but the cougar would most likely break off the attack once you do fight back. Not so with the pit-bull.

and you KNOW this how?

generoll
06-28-2010, 07:05
here's a link that might be of interest.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.yellowstonehorses.com/mule_cougar3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.yellowstonehorses.com/mulemountainlion.htm&h=428&w=600&sz=85&tbnid=ncNK5eE8x9nwwM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmule%2Bvs%2Bcougar&hl=en&usg=__TP13Bsvft3u2AgQTnpI5l12P5FA=&sa=X&ei=MYEoTM_zL8GC8gbunqn-Dw&ved=0CCUQ9QEwBA

I'm for the mule.

Mrs Baggins
06-28-2010, 07:17
I hear this often and then I hear about the sweet, gentle, friendly pit bull that snaps and mauls or kills a small child. Somehow, I don't think that all such incidents involve mistreated dogs.

There are 2 on our street that I'd like to hire that cougar to take care of. Yeah, when the owner is home they're all tail-waggy friendly to HIM. But when no one is home you cannot walk by their house without those ugly brutes throwing themselves against the fence and doing that deep throated gurgle that sounds as though they'd like nothing better than to tear your throat out. I'm sure the owner thinks they're "sweethearts" but some day a little kid is going to walk by and just make a "threatening" move and those dogs are comin' over that fence. It's easily low enough for them to take a run at and jump. We spent 3 months on a road trip, staying in campgrounds from Maryland to Alaska and back and many of them would not take anyone with a pitbull, rottweiler or chow.

TD55
06-28-2010, 07:22
and you KNOW this how?

It's called knowledge. Some people are able to ramble on about stuff they don't know anything about and figure if they say enough it will appear that they know something about a subject. Other people just have knowledge. Often the knowledge comes from observation and experience. Like seeing how a mountain lion fights and how a pit bull fights.

kanga
06-28-2010, 07:27
There are 2 on our street that I'd like to hire that cougar to take care of. Yeah, when the owner is home they're all tail-waggy friendly to HIM. But when no one is home you cannot walk by their house without those ugly brutes throwing themselves against the fence and doing that deep throated gurgle that sounds as though they'd like nothing better than to tear your throat out. I'm sure the owner thinks they're "sweethearts" but some day a little kid is going to walk by and just make a "threatening" move and those dogs are comin' over that fence. It's easily low enough for them to take a run at and jump. We spent 3 months on a road trip, staying in campgrounds from Maryland to Alaska and back and many of them would not take anyone with a pitbull, rottweiler or chow.

Then video the behavior when he's not home and show him

TD55
06-28-2010, 07:45
So it's Mrs. Baggins job to confront this idiot who is endangering neighborhood children because he is to stupid or irrisponsible to care about the fact that he has two potentialy dangerous animals left in his yard unattended?

Yukon
06-28-2010, 08:10
Go Cats!!!!
Hopefully the powers that be don't decide to go on a killing spree of the local predators.

My guns already loaded...

Yukon
06-28-2010, 08:12
Good - one less pit monster in the world.

Ignorance at it's best...

Jonnycat
06-28-2010, 09:56
and you KNOW this how?

It's called genetics. Predatory cats like cougars are wary enough to understand (in their own way) the cost/benefit of any interaction. Besides the obvious physical damage, there is also the toll of physical exertion to take into account: will I burn more energy attempting to kill this animal than the food is worth?

A pitbull, on the other hand, has been bred *specifically* to not stop attacking. It's hard-wired into their brains. Sure, you can train a pit to follow your command, but if it has a sufficient enough of a bad day it is going to fall back on it's default programming, and something/someone is going to die.

Generally, pitbulls tend to not be overly aggresive towards humans, as attempts are made to outbreed this characteristic. They are, however, highly canine and feline aggresive. If you have ever seen or known someone's beloved pet get torn to pieces by one of these monsters (as I have, dozens of times), you will understand how they have *no* place in civilized society (save sufficiently caged and kept by licensed handlers).

fiddlehead
06-28-2010, 10:06
and you KNOW this how?

AFter seeing a full grown mt. lion on a PCT hike from less than 10 feet away (he was stalking a doberman below him), 14 years ago, I have been keeping my eyes and ears open as to what to do in case of attack.

Attacks are rare. Never have they attacked a backpacker that i know of as I've said before.

I have been close up to many wild animals in my hiking life and it is wise to know what you are supposed to do in case of attack.
It's not always so easy to do them.

If you have some advice for hikers when confronted my mt lions or cougars, I'm listening.


How about monkeys?

Yukon
06-28-2010, 10:11
It's called genetics. Predatory cats like cougars are wary enough to understand (in their own way) the cost/benefit of any interaction. Besides the obvious physical damage, there is also the toll of physical exertion to take into account: will I burn more energy attempting to kill this animal than the food is worth?

A pitbull, on the other hand, has been bred *specifically* to not stop attacking. It's hard-wired into their brains. Sure, you can train a pit to follow your command, but if it has a sufficient enough of a bad day it is going to fall back on it's default programming, and something/someone is going to die.

Generally, pitbulls tend to not be overly aggresive towards humans, as attempts are made to outbreed this characteristic. They are, however, highly canine and feline aggresive. If you have ever seen or known someone's beloved pet get torn to pieces by one of these monsters (as I have, dozens of times), you will understand how they have *no* place in civilized society (save sufficiently caged and kept by licensed handlers).

Complete drivel, you obviously haven't spent any significant amount of time around the american pit bull terrier. Next you will say that they have a locking jaw...

double d
06-28-2010, 10:58
Well...interesting discussion here, but I haven't read about too many black labs (my dog) attack (and in some cases kill) people throughout the U.S., but I can't say that about pit bulls.

full conditions
06-28-2010, 12:11
In Great Britain Pit Bulls have been deemed so dangerous and unpredictable that they are illegal to own. Those crazy Brits seem to think that the protection of their children is more important than some perceived right to own any animal they want. Hmmm.... they can have my King Cobra when they pry it from my cold dead hands?

Panzer1
06-28-2010, 12:37
This is Max, please don't eat him. He's a good dog..


Panzer

weary
06-28-2010, 19:20
That is absolute crap. That's like blaming me for slavery cause I'm white.
Hmmm. Why the bitterness? I cheer whenever I see someone achieving something I consider unexpectedly good. That certainly doesn't mean I blame anyone living today for slavery.

Though I sometimes cheer when moutain lions, which are commonly hunted with the help of dogs, manages to kill a member of the dog family with a reputation for special viciousness, I see no logical connection between that and who is to blame for slavery.

Tell us Kanga, why do you think this is "like blaming you for slavery cause you are white?" What have I been missing that makes you believe my cheering is "crap."

Weary

Mrs Baggins
06-28-2010, 19:49
So it's Mrs. Baggins job to confront this idiot who is endangering neighborhood children because he is to stupid or irrisponsible to care about the fact that he has two potentialy dangerous animals left in his yard unattended?

What????? I'm not confronting some idiot swaggering arrogant fool who thinks his "babies" are just "sweethearts" who wouldn't hurt anybody. That's for the animal control people or the Home Owners Association to deal with. Would I take them out if I thought I could get away with it? Absolutely. But no, it's not "my job" - but I will find a way to get them out of here - legally.

Yukon
06-28-2010, 20:03
What????? I'm not confronting some idiot swaggering arrogant fool who thinks his "babies" are just "sweethearts" who wouldn't hurt anybody. That's for the animal control people or the Home Owners Association to deal with. Would I take them out if I thought I could get away with it? Absolutely. But no, it's not "my job" - but I will find a way to get them out of here - legally.


Have said dogs actually ever attacked anyone?

kanga
06-29-2010, 07:03
Then video the behavior when he's not home and show him


So it's Mrs. Baggins job to confront this idiot who is endangering neighborhood children because he is to stupid or irrisponsible to care about the fact that he has two potentialy dangerous animals left in his yard unattended?


What????? I'm not confronting some idiot swaggering arrogant fool who thinks his "babies" are just "sweethearts" who wouldn't hurt anybody. That's for the animal control people or the Home Owners Association to deal with. Would I take them out if I thought I could get away with it? Absolutely. But no, it's not "my job" - but I will find a way to get them out of here - legally.
thank you, td55, for being a typical armchair junkie and reading words into my post. i was suggesting she videotape the behavior for legal reasons. if you don't have proof there's a problem, animal control won't do a thing. plus if the man doesn't think his "sweethearts" exhibit vicious behavior, then a video is a great way to show him there's something wrong.

kanga
06-29-2010, 07:05
Hmmm. Why the bitterness? I cheer whenever I see someone achieving something I consider unexpectedly good. That certainly doesn't mean I blame anyone living today for slavery.

Though I sometimes cheer when moutain lions, which are commonly hunted with the help of dogs, manages to kill a member of the dog family with a reputation for special viciousness, I see no logical connection between that and who is to blame for slavery.

Tell us Kanga, why do you think this is "like blaming you for slavery cause you are white?" What have I been missing that makes you believe my cheering is "crap."

Weary
it's not bitterness. it's irritation with you spouting off crap. you can smarmy semantics your way out of anything, i'm sure. but what you wrote is crap.

fiddlehead
06-29-2010, 07:15
it's not bitterness. it's irritation with you spouting off crap. you can smarmy semantics your way out of anything, i'm sure. but what you wrote is crap.

You forgot the "IMO" at the end.
I thought his post was right on!

flemdawg1
06-29-2010, 09:31
Hey Bronco. Where exactly was the attack, Camel back Preserve?

hellomolly
06-29-2010, 09:51
Well...interesting discussion here, but I haven't read about too many black labs (my dog) attack (and in some cases kill) people throughout the U.S., but I can't say that about pit bulls.

And how many white trash, uneducated morons breed pits in their backyard and then raise said dogs to be mean and vicious by not properly socializing or training them? Let's compare that to the number of labs that are subjected to that sort of awful breeding practice. One visit to any shelter in the US gives us an answer to that question.

It is not the breed, it's the humans that are the problem. Pit bulls get a back reputation because by and large the humans that choose to own them for the image of having a pit bull are uneducated morons who don't have any business owning any dog in the first place. Couple that idiocy with the strength, musculature and intense appearance of a pit bull and you have a recipe for danger. It's also important to note that many dogs who are labeled "pits" in news and police reports are not truly pits... their some amalgamation of a variety of breeds, no doubt produced by some moron in their own backyard. "Pit" as a breed gets thrown around very broadly.

I feel very bad for that dog, and for its owner, to have witnessed something so awful. Well-adjusted and socialized pits are wonderful, loving, gentle dogs. Just like any breed that is well adjusted and socialized is generally wonderful.

Blue Jay
06-29-2010, 09:53
it's not bitterness. it's irritation with you spouting off crap. you can smarmy semantics your way out of anything, i'm sure. but what you wrote is crap.

No it's bitterness and as the king of smarmy semantics I hereby declare you are far better at it than Weary.:banana

Blue Jay
06-29-2010, 09:57
And how many white trash, uneducated morons breed pits in their backyard and then raise said dogs to be mean and vicious by not properly socializing or training them?

Several hundred thousand (just a guess), lucky for us only a few hike.

wcgornto
06-29-2010, 10:52
Well-adjusted and socialized pits are wonderful, loving, gentle dogs. Just like any breed that is well adjusted and socialized is generally wonderful.


Nevertheless, upon rare occasion, one of these wonderful, gentle, loving dogs snaps and mauls or kills a kid. I don't know the percentages ... maybe 1% of 1% of 1%. But when it does happen, the consequences are horrendous.

I do not buy into the claim that only the mistreated, un-socialized ones with bad owners attack, maul and kill. Rather, it occurs in nice neighborhoods with nice people all too often. And there is usually a quote in the newspaper article describing the incident as to how gentle, wonderful and loving the pooch was and how he had never shown any aggression or behaved badly before.

Lone Wolf
06-29-2010, 11:06
here's some info http://pit-bulls.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

hellomolly
06-29-2010, 11:08
Nevertheless, upon rare occasion, one of these wonderful, gentle, loving dogs snaps and mauls or kills a kid. I don't know the percentages ... maybe 1% of 1% of 1%. But when it does happen, the consequences are horrendous.

I do not buy into the claim that only the mistreated, un-socialized ones with bad owners attack, maul and kill. Rather, it occurs in nice neighborhoods with nice people all too often. And there is usually a quote in the newspaper article describing the incident as to how gentle, wonderful and loving the pooch was and how he had never shown any aggression or behaved badly before.

I agree that there are dogs who appear to be well adjusted and gentle who then attack, seemingly unprovoked. But all breeds do this. A black lab recently attacked a kid in a neighborhood near me and was euthanized. The attack was allegedly unprovoked. Pits get a bad reputation that is proliferated by the fact that many pits and pit mixes are owned by irresponsible people, disproportionately so to other dogs.

At the end of the day, it's by and large bad owners that cause dog attacks, not bad dogs.

wcgornto
06-29-2010, 11:17
At the end of the day, it's by and large bad owners that cause dog attacks, not bad dogs.


Now that I can agree with ... "by and large". I only take exception with those who claim that all of the attacks are done by improperly trained dogs with bad owners.

hellomolly
06-29-2010, 11:26
Now that I can agree with ... "by and large". I only take exception with those who claim that all of the attacks are done by improperly trained dogs with bad owners.

Yeah, this is a good point. Sometimes dogs attack for no apparent reason... they are animals, afterall. Bound to be some bad apples. Which is why it's important to never leave a young child alone with one. I'd be curious to know how many dog attacks occured when a child was with a dog unsupervised.

Pedaling Fool
06-29-2010, 11:30
I basically agree that the vast majority of pitbull attacks are due from the environment they were raised in and the mentality of the people that are in a way predisposed to own this type of dog. I'm not sure how much nature has to do with it, it's the old argument of nature vs. nuture. (And yes it is nature, despite this being a human-breed of animal). There are plenty of "natual" animals that display much more aggresiveness than pitbulls).

I also know there are some studies that seem to indicate that pitbulls are predisposed to aggression. Well, studies are to be taken with a grain of salt; remarkably, in many cases are later proven to be wrong.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704122904575315222129011504.html



I just think it funny how fear becomes a factor in people's opinions. It use to be that people thought that black bear attacks were a result of some neurological problem with the bear, now people are starting to see it's more a factor of predation. I wonder how that will color our preception of bears in the future, assuming the attacks keep coming.

Feral Bill
06-29-2010, 12:17
here's some info http://pit-bulls.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

There you go LW, confusing the issue with actual facts.:rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
06-29-2010, 12:20
There you go LW, confusing the issue with actual facts.:rolleyes:

so you think all the attacks in that link are made up?

Mrs Baggins
06-29-2010, 12:30
And I'm supposed to wait to see if the ones down the street actually attack someone before trying to get them out of here. It will happen. They will jump somebody. 2 of them constitute a pack and they are left alone all day outside. But the owners of these ugly brutes are like Jordan Van Der Sloot's mother - they'll still insist they're "good boys" and "sweethearts" and "would never hurt anyone" and then find a way to blame the dead person.

Feral Bill
06-29-2010, 12:52
so you think all the attacks in that link are made up?

Just the opposite. I think you are the first one to bring any useful data to this discussion.

Yukon
06-29-2010, 13:10
And I'm supposed to wait to see if the ones down the street actually attack someone before trying to get them out of here. It will happen. They will jump somebody. 2 of them constitute a pack and they are left alone all day outside. But the owners of these ugly brutes are like Jordan Van Der Sloot's mother - they'll still insist they're "good boys" and "sweethearts" and "would never hurt anyone" and then find a way to blame the dead person.


So you are assuming. You know what happens when you assume...

Feral Bill
06-29-2010, 13:18
And I'm supposed to wait to see if the ones down the street actually attack someone before trying to get them out of here. It will happen. They will jump somebody. 2 of them constitute a pack and they are left alone all day outside. But the owners of these ugly brutes are like Jordan Van Der Sloot's mother - they'll still insist they're "good boys" and "sweethearts" and "would never hurt anyone" and then find a way to blame the dead person.

If an armed person were standing in their yard loudly threatening everyone who walked by the police would be all over them. I do not see much difference, if the dogs could reasonably get loose.

sherrill
06-29-2010, 13:34
http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/attack-chihuahua.jpg

full conditions
06-29-2010, 13:41
So you are assuming. You know what happens when you assume...
What utter nonsense. What you rightiously call an assumption I would call a proactive concern based on: a) the fact that on many occasions pit bulls and other dangerous breeds have gotten loose and mauled children and adults and b) these particular animals behave in an aggresive and threatening manner in a residential neighborhood. Get a clue. People have a right to feel safe in their own communities.

mudhead
06-29-2010, 13:45
http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/attack-chihuahua.jpg

That thing would rip your lungs out. Jim.

Blue Jay
06-29-2010, 15:12
So you are assuming. You know what happens when you assume...

Yes, it means that people who use the saying "assume makes an ass out of u and me" like to let disasters happen. Your philosopy led directly to the Gulf Disaster. It has led to our blind experiments with our atmosphere, water and food supplies.

generoll
06-29-2010, 15:46
Thread drift can be such fun. A cougar killed a leashed pit bull and many are saying hooray. I'm pretty sure a cougar is at least as dangerous as a pit.

There seems to be an odd phenomena in existence here. A bear bites or kills a human and we blame the human. A cougar kills a pit bull and we cheer for the cougar. ***?

Panzer1
06-29-2010, 15:57
There seems to be an odd phenomena in existence here....

Its White Blaze, what do you expect?

Panzer

Yukon
06-29-2010, 15:58
Yes, it means that people who use the saying "assume makes an ass out of u and me" like to let disasters happen. Your philosopy led directly to the Gulf Disaster. It has led to our blind experiments with our atmosphere, water and food supplies.

Nobody likes to let disasters happen, that's garbage.

I simply think that Mrs Baggins is just afraid of the mean old doggies down the street and fears they will get loose and kill everyone in the neighborhood. But only because they are "pit bulls"...:rolleyes:

Yukon
06-29-2010, 16:00
What utter nonsense. What you rightiously call an assumption I would call a proactive concern based on: a) the fact that on many occasions pit bulls and other dangerous breeds have gotten loose and mauled children and adults and b) these particular animals behave in an aggresive and threatening manner in a residential neighborhood. Get a clue. People have a right to feel safe in their own communities.


Thanks for all your wisdom, I feel enlightened.

Panzer1
06-29-2010, 16:06
I simply think that Mrs Baggins is just afraid of the mean old doggies down the street and fears they will get loose and kill everyone in the neighborhood. But only because they are "pit bulls"...:rolleyes:

uhhh, yea ...

Panzer

double d
06-29-2010, 16:15
http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/attack-chihuahua.jpg

I think I just heard this little doggie say, "I must attack all cougars".:eek:

Feral Bill
06-29-2010, 16:58
Nobody likes to let disasters happen, that's garbage.

I simply think that Mrs Baggins is just afraid of the mean old doggies down the street and fears they will get loose and kill everyone in the neighborhood. But only because they are "pit bulls"...:rolleyes:

Mrs Baggins has never posted anything here to make me think she's especially fearful.

FritztheCat
06-29-2010, 22:26
I feel for the woman who watched her pet get killed in front of her. Pets become family members so that had to be especially traumatic. Doesn't matter what kind of dog it was.

Still, I'll always take the cat's side. :D

TrailSquirrel
06-30-2010, 00:06
That thing would rip your lungs out. Jim.

Only if your lungs were below your ankles

Yukon
06-30-2010, 07:16
Only if your lungs were below your ankles


Hahaha...I have a friend who has five chihuaha's and every time I go over there I think I'm leaving without the bottom of my pants...

Yukon
06-30-2010, 07:17
Mrs Baggins has never posted anything here to make me think she's especially fearful.


Have you read any of her posts in this thread? :rolleyes:

sherrill
06-30-2010, 08:01
Calif. woman says Chihuahua died saving her kids


RICHMOND, CALIF. — A Northern California woman says her Chihuahua died protecting her children from two pit bulls that got into her apartment.

Mayda Estrella, of Richmond, says the family's Chihuahua, named Manchas, jumped in between the canine invaders and her 4-year-old son Sunday. A pit bull grabbed Manchas with its jaws and carried the Chihuahua away.

Contra Costa County animal services officials say the Chihuahua was killed, and the pit bulls are now in custody.

The pit bulls' owner says they had escaped their yard by chewing through a fence. Estrella says her front door was open when the dogs came in.

She says when she saw the dogs come in, she ran into a bedroom with her other child, a newborn baby.

County officials say the owner won't face criminal charges

berkshirebirder
06-30-2010, 09:48
The pit bulls' owner says they had escaped their yard by chewing through a fence. Estrella says her front door was open when the dogs came in.

County officials say the owner won't face criminal charges [the pit bulls killed another dog instead of a child]

And there you have it. If the pit bulls had mauled or killed a child, that would constitute "a problem." Except the woman DID leave her door open, so in a way, she was just asking for something to happen. ;)

I'm sure these pits were sweet, loving family pets and they were just keeping their teeth clean by chewing through the fence.

Yukon
06-30-2010, 10:58
I'm sure these pits were sweet, loving family pets and they were just keeping their teeth clean by chewing through the fence.


Who knows, my soon-to-be mother in-law's dog, a Beagle mind you, chewed threw three metal soup cans the other day for no reason. I guess I should be scared for my life now. I'll never look at a Beagle the same...

Feral Bill
06-30-2010, 11:25
Have you read any of her posts in this thread? :rolleyes:

Yes. I have seen reasonble responses to a real threat.

Blue Jay
06-30-2010, 11:29
Have you read any of her posts in this thread? :rolleyes:

Yes, this thread should make anyone fearful. Many dog owners have absolutely no morals or ethics of any kind, some of the most scary people on earth.

Ender
06-30-2010, 11:31
Cue Godwin's Law in 3... 2... 1........

turtle fast
06-30-2010, 11:41
So.....what about the Cougars? How do we hike safely in Cougar areas? I don't have a pit bull snack.....nor Chuck Norris to hike with me.

berkshirebirder
06-30-2010, 11:47
Cue Godwin's Law

If the Nazis had been armed with pit bulls, we'd all be speaking German today.
:-?

weary
06-30-2010, 12:35
....I simply think that Mrs Baggins is just afraid of the mean old doggies down the street and fears they will get loose and kill everyone in the neighborhood. But only because they are "pit bulls"...:rolleyes:
Given the well documented reputation of pit bulls, only a fool would not be a bit leary of a yard where the creatures are enclosed.

Lostone
06-30-2010, 12:53
Yukon

It is real easy to forget that the country pit bulls you experience in your white bread little town are a significantly different animal than what we experience in the urban setting.

Your town has a median income of 45k my neighborhood 23k. big difference in education and values.

It boils down to owner as much as dog.

vamelungeon
06-30-2010, 17:07
I can remember when German Shepherds were the breed that people said would turn on their owners and were so dangerous they should be banned. Then it was Doberman Pinschers. Now it's pit bulls. I had one growing up, back before they were some sort of phallic symbol for gang bangers. I've known people who had them. Dogs are like guns, there are some people who shouldn't have them, they are just too stupid and irresponsible, but the rest of us shouldn't be punished because of the idiots.

Marta
06-30-2010, 17:19
I can remember when German Shepherds were the breed that people said would turn on their owners and were so dangerous they should be banned. Then it was Doberman Pinschers. Now it's pit bulls. I had one growing up, back before they were some sort of phallic symbol for gang bangers. I've known people who had them. Dogs are like guns, there are some people who shouldn't have them, they are just too stupid and irresponsible, but the rest of us shouldn't be punished because of the idiots.

Unfortunately, the idiot owners are the largest group, with responsible dog owners being a tiny majority. (Kanga is about the best dog-owner I know. The way she deals with her dogs is the art at its best.) Kanga aside, not one in 100 owners trains their dogs to behave, and keep them under control. If the untrained beast is a Yorkie and it tries to attack, the intended victim can just kick it away. If the untrained dog is a Rottweiler, not so easy. And, yes, I have been bitten by a German shepherd/wolf cross who belonged to a friend. As a cyclist and hiker I have very little use for loose, ill-trained dogs.

Mrs Baggins
06-30-2010, 20:18
Mrs Baggins has never posted anything here to make me think she's especially fearful.

***Snort!*** I was a reservations agent for United Airlines. NOTHING scares me....except for pit bulls that throw themselves against the fence when I walk by....:eek:

Pedaling Fool
07-01-2010, 08:18
Hmmm. Why the bitterness? I cheer whenever I see someone achieving something I consider unexpectedly good. That certainly doesn't mean I blame anyone living today for slavery.

Though I sometimes cheer when moutain lions, which are commonly hunted with the help of dogs, manages to kill a member of the dog family with a reputation for special viciousness, I see no logical connection between that and who is to blame for slavery.

Tell us Kanga, why do you think this is "like blaming you for slavery cause you are white?" What have I been missing that makes you believe my cheering is "crap."

Weary
I agree with Kanga's analogy. You're basically saying that if a mountain lion kills a dog then that is great because that lion is avenging the deaths of other lions where dogs played a role; with absolutely no regard of the history, temperment of the victim dog. I personally won't loose any sleep over the dog's death, but I don't understand why one would "cheer"?

Seems to me you're displaying simple mindless stereotype mentality.

- Should we then not kill all bears since many have killed us?

- Should we not have diplomatic relations with the Japanese due to Pearl Harbor or (from their perspective) they should not have diplomatic relations with us since we nuked them?

This is of course using your line of reason.




:-?

kanga
07-01-2010, 08:23
Unfortunately, the idiot owners are the largest group, with responsible dog owners being a tiny majority. (Kanga is about the best dog-owner I know. The way she deals with her dogs is the art at its best.) Kanga aside, not one in 100 owners trains their dogs to behave, and keep them under control. If the untrained beast is a Yorkie and it tries to attack, the intended victim can just kick it away. If the untrained dog is a Rottweiler, not so easy. And, yes, I have been bitten by a German shepherd/wolf cross who belonged to a friend. As a cyclist and hiker I have very little use for loose, ill-trained dogs.
thanks marta. that means alot coming from you. i try to be the best pack leader i can. it helps that i have two really awesome dogs. a loving dog makes it easy.

berkshirebirder
07-01-2010, 10:09
You're basically saying that if a mountain lion kills a dog then that is great because that lion is avenging the deaths of other lions where dogs played a role -- JGault

A mountain lion "avenging" the deaths of other lions? You're really reaching on that one.

I took Weary's comment to mean that every now and then a wild animal wins a battle, and that's a good thing. Nothing to do with slavery or WWII or the price of tea in China.

Yukon
07-01-2010, 10:25
http://dontbullymybreed.org/

weary
07-01-2010, 10:57
.... Seems to me you're displaying simple mindless stereotype mentality.....:-?
Yeah, I know. I blame it on my breeding and training. Just as dogs can be bred and trained to be vicious, I suspect I must have been bred and trained so as to be capable of only a mindless stereotypical mentality.

vamelungeon
07-01-2010, 11:32
http://dontbullymybreed.org/
Thanks for that!

Pedaling Fool
07-01-2010, 12:55
A mountain lion "avenging" the deaths of other lions? You're really reaching on that one.

I took Weary's comment to mean that every now and then a wild animal wins a battle, and that's a good thing. Nothing to do with slavery or WWII or the price of tea in China.
He said he cheers because the dog was killled. That's what sets it apart from just simply accepting that a mountain lion killed a dog. He didn't say he cheers when an aggressive pitbull is killed, just that a pitbull was killed.

It is the same mentality as cheering for the demise of any group, irregardless if the individual that met the demise deserved it or not.

Pedaling Fool
07-01-2010, 12:59
Yeah, I know. I blame it on my breeding and training. Just as dogs can be bred and trained to be vicious, I suspect I must have been bred and trained so as to be capable of only a mindless stereotypical mentality.
To be clear, I'm not saying that you apply this to every situation, but in this case you did.

You know one could argue that people kill far more people than dogs therefore we should cheer when some one is killed by a bear. I know that's not your approach, but what really is different in the logic?

Marta
07-01-2010, 19:57
thanks marta. that means alot coming from you. i try to be the best pack leader i can. it helps that i have two really awesome dogs. a loving dog makes it easy.

If all dog owners trained their dogs as well as you do, these contentious dog threads on Whiteblaze wouldn't exist, because no one would view dogs as a problem.

And if all dogs were treated as well as yours are (which includes firm discipline and knowing what's expected of them), more dogs would be loving.:sun

sheepdog
07-01-2010, 22:43
I understand the laws of nature but y'all are cheering that a ladys dog got killed right in front of her. That's sick.
zacktly


cougar grabs my dog he grabs some lead


survival of the fittest

Sarcasm the elf
07-01-2010, 23:50
Holy hand grenades, I've seen threads get hi-jacked before but this is impressive...If this sort of situation happens again may I humbly suggest that next time we post it under the headline of Cougar kills dog on the trail today?

Poor dog, poor (and lucky) woman...

wcgornto
07-02-2010, 00:10
I knew this thread was going to drift when I saw the initial post.

sheepdog
07-02-2010, 03:26
I knew this thread was going to drift when I saw the initial post.
did not............