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anodizer
11-09-2004, 09:55
recommendation wanted for a very simple operating stove with a easily obtained fuel source, of course, very light.

Youngblood
11-09-2004, 10:07
You might want to give a little more information about what you expect from a stove. Some things that might effect choices are what kind of cooking do you do (just boil water, for example), how many people do you cook for, what conditions (do you need to melt snow for instance) and how much do you use it (length of trips, meals cooked each day, do you boil drinking water, etc).

Youngblood

Rain Man
11-09-2004, 10:15
recommendation wanted for a very simple operating stove with a easily obtained fuel source, of course, very light.

Many AT backpackers use a "pepsi can" alcohol stove. Instructions for building same can be got by a Search on WhiteBlaze or Google.

Tin Man sells them, cheaply, at--

http://www.antigravitygear.com/

That's what I use.

:sun
Rain Man

.

creaky bones
11-09-2004, 10:58
I agree. The "pepsi can" alcohol stove is light, requires no maintenance or cleaning, and the fuel is easy to find and is as light as the size container you put the fuel in. It's simple to use- you pour in an ounce or so of alcohol and light it. It burns until the fuel is gone- usually 5-10 minutes (it burns longer with a wind screen). Keep in mind it has only one setting: high, so it's good for boiling water but that's about it. I'm not a gourmet cook on the trail, so that's all I need.

My hiking partner likes the Pocket Rocket, but that requires a canister (or multiple canisters for a longer trip). It's simple, requires no maintenance, and you can adjust the flame to be able to do a little more- like simmering or browning.

SGT Rock
11-09-2004, 11:14
Check out my site. You can make an alcohol stove that simmers. They are light, fuel is easy to get, and they don't cost hardly anything. Use one a while and if it doesn't work out, you can always spend the money on a gas stove. The alternative is buying the gas stove then deciding you should have gone alcohol and already have spent all the money.

chris
11-09-2004, 14:30
Drink a can of beer. Cut the bottom two inches off. That is your stove. Put some version of alcohol in it (denatured, HEET, grain, etc). For a stove stand, eat a can of beans. Cut off the bottom and the bottom 3 inches or so. Cut some air vents into it. That is your stove stand. Or, take a metal wire hanger. Unbend it. Then, bend it into a stove stand.

MileMonster
11-09-2004, 16:30
Make a pepsi can stove or buy a brasslite. Light and oooh soooo simple.
Just one dude's opinion.

Peaks
11-09-2004, 17:55
Most of the replies favor an alcohol stove. But, alcohol stoves don't work for all. So, my recommendation would be to make a homemade one, and then actually use it and find out for yourself if you are happy with it, or want a fuel that puts out more BTU's.

Lilred
11-09-2004, 19:39
I use an alcohol stove that I made and love it. I'm ordering a pot and cozy from Tin Man before my section hike next summer, so simmering problem is solved.

grrickar
11-09-2004, 20:12
My suggestion would be to try making an alcohol stove. If you like DIY projects then you will likely get into the project and experiment with stove designs, etc. If you aren't happy with alcohol stoves then you can always go out and buy a stove. By starting with alcohol you are spending very little if anything to build one, so all you have spent is some of your time.

I have not built a stove yet for lack of free time, but I do plan to at some point. I have three stoves at home, one large Primus 'car camping' propane stove, an Optimus Nova liquid multi-fuel stove, and a lightweight Optimus Crux canister stove.

I use each of them in different situations: the Nova liquid fuel stove I find is best for longer trips because it is fuel efficient and I can vary the size of bottle that I carry. Since it burns almost everything, fuel sources aren't an issue - I can burn diesel, AV fuel, or gasoline in a pinch. Kerosene and white gas are the most common fuels used with the stove. I can carry the stove, and have a hiking partner carry the bottle or vice versa.

The Optimus Crux only weighs 3.1oz, and I can choose from a 4, 8, or 12 oz canister - and it will lighten my load on short or solo trips.

The Primus Scout propane stove uses the large propane canisters, so I use it when weight is not an issue and I'm camping with my family.

I do want to see what is all the fuss about alcohol stoves, my only concern is the amount of time they burn and whether or not one can cook over one. I think most just boil water and rehydrate noodles and such with their alcohol stoves.

I typically do the same regardless of the stove I use, but in the event I want to cook I want to have flame control and burn time to support the meal I am preparing.

Ridge
11-10-2004, 09:38
I was once a dino-fuel toting/dependant hiker. Got a wood/solid fuel burner, have never gone back. I use the Sierra Zip stove, 16ozs. However, a lighter wood stove would be better. I may get the titanium or a homemade version later. Plenty of posts on this site about the wood burning stoves.

Doctari
11-10-2004, 12:58
I have had 3 gasoline stoves, liked 2 of them (#1 tried to blow up on me, long story) may some day go back to them, but I doubt it.

I converted to "Pepsi can stove" about 2 years ago, LOVE IT!! Considering the cost, & weight, it is the best stove I have ever owned. Cooks nearly as fast as the gas ones, especally if you factor in the set up & take down times.
My alcohol stove sets up in a few (10?) seconds, best time with the gasoline was about 45 sec to 1.5 min. take down is: let it cool while I eat, pick it up & toss in the cook pot, or about 2 seconds, gasoline about same as set up.
So add from "I want to eat" to "Stove is put away" to the "Actual" cook time, & I believe the times will be very close.

My $0.02

Doctari.

SGT Rock
11-10-2004, 16:19
I was once a dino-fuel toting/dependant hiker. Got a wood/solid fuel burner, have never gone back. I use the Sierra Zip stove, 16ozs. However, a lighter wood stove would be better. I may get the titanium or a homemade version later. Plenty of posts on this site about the wood burning stoves.

Consider an alcohol stove as a renewable fuel stove, not a dino fuel. Ethyl Alcohol is basically wood reduced to the essentials.

Ridge
11-10-2004, 19:54
Consider an alcohol stove as a renewable fuel stove, not a dino fuel. Ethyl Alcohol is basically wood reduced to the essentials.
..as a second choice, multifuel as third, to the unlimited uses I have become accustomed to with the wood burner..ie: showers, unlimited boiling of water and cooking, melting snow and no fuel carrying (unless going above tree line). I would not even think of using any other stove after using the zip for so many years without any problems, including running out of fuel. I keep it in my car for making coffee, several pine cones will do the trick, and I can set it on my hood. I use a 5 cup glass coffee maker carafe for boiling when car camping, a s/s pot when backpacking. My time of getting off trail to buy, carrying, spilling, smelling fuel is over. I can even grill a steak complete with hickory chips(can even use store bought charcoal if I want), have a small circular grill for doing this. Think of how much alcohol or gas it would take. I was once a die hard gas/alcohol user, and I admit, I had my big doubts about the wood burner. I have been converted for 5+ years. I posted elsewhere on wb why I had to switch to the wood burner along with other tips and stuff.

weary
11-10-2004, 21:32
I was once a dino-fuel toting/dependant hiker. Got a wood/solid fuel burner, have never gone back. I use the Sierra Zip stove, 16ozs. However, a lighter wood stove would be better. I may get the titanium or a homemade version later. Plenty of posts on this site about the wood burning stoves.

Welcome to the wood burning club. We'll never be in the majority, except among the few remaining counterculturists. But truly there is nothing significant for sensible people to complain about a wood-burning Zip Stove. The fuel is free. It exists almost everywhere. Is non polluting (the same emissions from burning our twigs in a Zip stove would result from the natural decay that is inevitable had we not burned it). It's quick. It simmers. It boils. It serves as an emergency insect repellant. A way to get rid of unpleasant shelter users! The list is endless.

The complaint I hear most often is that a Zip gets soot on the bottom of a pot. I have to chuckle everytime I think about this complaint. Of all the challenges of the trail, a sooty pot is significant?

Weary

Ridge
11-10-2004, 22:09
The complaint I hear most often is that a Zip gets soot on the bottom of a pot. I have to chuckle everytime I think about this complaint. Of all the challenges of the trail, a sooty pot is significant?
Weary
A sooty pot (black) will heat the contents up much faster than a sparkling clean one will, this is a big plus for using a woodburner!

TakeABreak
11-10-2004, 23:23
I started my hike with an MSR Whisperlite, when it worked, it was fine, but there are lots of problems with this stove, I used an alchol stove once, I borrowed, once when my MSR Whisper lite stove was broken, it worked fine. I switched to a Primus Alpine titanium, the stove weighs 3 ozs, canister with fuel is 12 ozs., last 9 - 12 days. Fuel is relatively easy to get, I still have and use this stove occassionally and would use it again for another thru hike.

SGT Rock
11-12-2004, 09:27
I'm not bagging on wood stoves. It is a cool idea and I have used one. I just don't do enough extra cooking to need the extra weight of one. I cook two to three meals a day sometimes with extra cooking for coffee or tea and still have plenty of fuel most of the time since I have strived to build fuel efficient stoves. If I remember the zip stove weight for just the stove correctly, well I am under that including pot, pan, stove, fuel and a bunch of other items, and the weigh just keeps going down as I use my fuel. It might jot be as romantic as sitting over a zip stove with an open flame, but to each his own.

My review of a zip stove from a few years back: http://hikinghq.net/stoves/zip.html

Ridge
11-13-2004, 04:00
I like to take a hot shower on the trail, with the zip woodburner and my homemade 5 gallon mylar bag (3ozs) shower I can do it. This is just one major reason I carry the extra weight. I will be cutting the weight down on this stove by either getting a titanium one or by modification of existing stove. By using the woodburner I have eliminated worrying about fuel and water purification(especially if my filter clogs). This allows me to concentrate on obtaining food. Another problem eliminated is the problem of shipping fuels or flying with fuels, cannisters, etc. This is why I ended up with a zip, United Air had a problem with me carrying fuel or even a used fuel bottle to Australia on a bp trip I took several years back(right after the Value Jet crash in the Everglades caused by some kind of fuel cannisters). I got the zip, was very skeptical at first, but it worked great and have continued to use it ever since. Past problems I have had with alcohol and multifuel type stoves have been very cold weather, maybe temps below 20 degrees, these stoves didn't perform well, especially my alcohol stove. They also didn't perform well at high elevations (ie: out west in the High Sierra's).

Pencil Pusher
11-13-2004, 07:29
Oh cannister stoves work fine in the cold and at whatever altitude the Sierras can dish out. If 'multifuel' refers to something like a Whisperlite, those will work fine too.

SGT Rock
11-13-2004, 08:39
Well I have had a problem in the cold with a canister. I was in Germany in 1987 and stuck in a bad way with a guy that was hitting hypothermia. I pulled out my canister stove to make him some hot food and try getting him back to being warm, but because of the low temperature, the stove couldn't get enough pressure to perform. I never had that sort of peoblem with a gas stove you pump because you can always up the pressure. A zip stove at that point would hav been great, but they didn't have such a thing back then.

HikeLite
11-13-2004, 15:37
Sarge,

Aren't todays canister stoves alot better than those from 1987 days? I thought I read that somewheres.

Pencil Pusher
11-13-2004, 18:17
As well, when it's really cold out you can prime your cannister by holding the open flame of a Bic lighter to the underside. Or for camping, put the cartridge in your sleeping bag with you. Once the stove is lit, the heat eminating downwards should be enough to keep the gas warm. If you want to be safer, warm the cartridge with body heat before starting the stove. As far as efficiency and the cold, well the cannister works but is probably at the low end of the totem pole. I'm still having trouble trying to visualize a tiny wood burning stove working in snow conditions...

TakeABreak
11-13-2004, 19:42
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the canister stoves are a mixed fuel now is because it keeps them from liquifying in extreme temps. I have fired up my primus stove at 10 degrees (f) out with no problem. If you need a stove for colder temperatures I would contact the manufacturer for specific recommendations.

Dancin Free
11-15-2004, 14:27
:D Any comments about Esbit Stoves that burn the fuel tabs? I've read a few journals that say they're pretty good.

ripple
11-15-2004, 14:53
I use the esbit wing stove. I like it a lot. First the negative....the tabs smell kinda of fishy. The burning tabs also leave a little residue on the pot, but a wipe w/ a damp towel takes care of that. The stove is just for boiling water, and w/ a windscreen, in 3 season use, you will get 2 cups to boil w/ some tab left over. You can just blow out the left over portion and use it for what ever else, ie. cup coffee etc etc. It is great for weekend or few day trips, but at the price of 50 cents a tab, it could get pricey if one uses it a lot. The wing stove weighs less then an ounce, and each tab weighs in at half an ounce.

Lilred
11-15-2004, 18:03
:D Any comments about Esbit Stoves that burn the fuel tabs? I've read a few journals that say they're pretty good.

I take esbit tabs along with me as a back up fuel source. I use a pepsi-can stove and turn it upside down to use the esbit tab on it. I've found that it doesn't burn as hot as an alcohol stove and has a longer boil time. I don't much care for the smell either. The nice part is you can blow out the tab and reuse it.

SGT Rock
11-15-2004, 20:38
Here is a pretty thoughrough write up about esbit and trioxane.

jac
11-16-2004, 03:51
"Aren't todays canister stoves alot better than those from 1987 days? I thought I read that somewheres."

Well, back in the '70's, cartridge stoves like the Bluet 200 used a cartridge that was butane, and they didn't work very well when the temp got near freezing.
I believe all the cartridge (or canister) stoves today use a butane/propane mix to overcome that problem.

NICKTHEGREEK
11-16-2004, 08:34
I made a pepsi can stove and stand set-up and it worked pretty well if you like cooking in the "slow lane" since boil times can be 2-3x what you get from a modern cannister or gas stove. The issues I had with the pepsi can stoves were essentially they were pretty fragile, an undetected leak could make for a bit of fire, and I either had too little or too much fuel in it for the task at hand. An alternative is the Liberty Mountain Trangia. Pretty cheap at $20.00, durable, has a "simmer" ring that lets you modulate the heat somewhat, and you can snuff it easily and once cooled, cap it to save fuel. Still slow however. http://www.thru-hiker.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TR101 (http://www.thru-hiker.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TR101)
I generally use a Primus Alpine micro cannister http://www.backcountry-equipment.com/stoves/primus_alpine-micro.html with a snowpeak 3 piece TI cookset for my longer section hikes. The blowtorch flame pattern and the small ti pot will boil 2 cups of water in about 3 minutes, it simmers wonderfully, but totally fails the gormet cooking tests.
I really love the Snowpeak Gigapower BF stove for "real cooking". http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/Stovedetail.cfm/SN1010 It is a cannister model but the stove uses long fuel line rather than connecting directly to the cannister. It has a wider flame pattern and works great with the heavier cookware like an outback oven or GSI hard annodized pots and pans. Great setup if you are partnered up to share the extra weight.
I have very limited experience with pressurized gas/diesel stoves finding all of them to be heavy, noisy and very tempermental even when used by folks who were knew what they were doing.

Peaks
11-16-2004, 08:53
Nick the Greek,

Your post highlights the differences between fuels. Like all gear, there are tradeoffs between each.

Yes, alcohol is slow. It puts out much less BTU than other stoves. But, it is popular because most of the cooking done by thru-hikers is just heating up a small quantity of water, usually about 2 cups. And it is lightweight, and doesn't cost much to make.

If you want to do more than heat 2 cups of water, then I suggest other stoves, including gas and canister.

Youngblood
11-16-2004, 09:11
I've noticed that the person that started this thread has not made another post. In the 2nd post on the this thread, I suggested that they needed to add some information if they wanted relevent suggestions for what they were looking for in a stove. I guess they found out what they wanted to know?

Youngblood

minnesotasmith
11-16-2004, 10:39
I made a major post on some of the issues with stove fuel that readers of this thread might enjoy:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2607

Castle
11-23-2004, 01:04
:-? If you want simple and easily obtainable fuel system, you want to go with alcohol of wood.

Alcohol stoves are simple and HEET can be found at most gas stations, etc.

Wood can be good if you are in wooded areas and it's dry, but not so dry that the forest ignites at the first smell of smoke. These are simple if you have time and know how to start a fire. A stove makes the wood burn hotter and wastes less.

Liquid petrol is easily obtainable, if you go with unleaded, but stoves are problematic and the fuel is toxic.

Canister stoves work great above freezing and are the simplist to use but fuel is hard to get.

Esbit and other solid fuels are easy to use, but burn cool and are hard to find.

Sun? I've seen solar stoves on the web. Don't sound too realistic.

Stove Links (http://home.comcast.net/~agmann/stove/Stoves.htm#Links)

anodizer
12-01-2004, 12:38
I've noticed that the person that started this thread has not made another post. In the 2nd post on the this thread, I suggested that they needed to add some information if they wanted relevent suggestions for what they were looking for in a stove. I guess they found out what they wanted to know?

Youngblood I do have instructions for constructing a lt. wt. alcohol stove-thanks

Phorestfreak
12-07-2004, 08:17
Sooty Black pots equals the charm of true camping. The boil time is right up there with the gas stoves and fuel is always at your finger tips. The zip stove will eat up any type of wood and wood products (conifer cones). To keep the soot to a minimun in my pack i just cover the pot with a grocery bag. The stove although some may say heavy is worth its weight in gold especially when filters break down because you dont have to worry about using your allotted fuel supply. Just carry and extra battery or two and some dryer lint for starting when tinder supplys are low or wet. I switched on a whim without ever trying it first (got an old model withought the corded control used for $20) I had a bad experience with a leaky gas bottle what stinky mess in my pack. Go green with a zip stove.

UCONNMike
12-07-2004, 14:36
I decided to go with a Mountain Dew Can Stove for my upcoming thru-hike in 2005, i just built it the other day and it's flippin' awesome. I put some pics of my stove in the gear pics section. most of the thur-hikers i met on my section hike this summer said a soda can stove is the way to go, plus it's crazy lite.