Wet shoes and rocks don't mix

[Sierra Echo]

Today I got a permit to hike the gorge floor at Tallulah Gorge. Its a strenous hike and the park ranger told me that just yesterday alone they had to rescue 5 people and bring them out.
There is a river crossing where you have to make it from rock to rock to rock. And its fast moving water near a waterfall. Well needless to say I jumped on a slick rock and landed on my back in the water pulling a nice guy who was trying to help me on top of me.
Well after that, everytime i tried to scale a rock my shoes wouldn't grip and I would slide right off. Determined to make it I pressed on til I came to a huge climb. I turned around. I wasn't about to slide down that. I feel like that was just asking to be injured. I made it back across the river crossing but some nice man had to help haul me back up because I couldn't get a grip on the rocks. I feel like a total failure.

My question is this. what could I have done differently??

[Spokes]

Don't feel bad, most of us have been in your shoes so to speak. Could you have forded the river instead? Were you using hiking poles for a little extra stability?

When I have to ford I swap out my boots for a pair of crocs and wrap a section of velcro one wrap around the ankle strap and heel so they don't come off in swift water. I always undo my hip belt and chest strap on the pack in case I have to ditch if I get pulled under. It's a hassle but I have dry boots on the other side.

[Sierra Echo]

There was a pretty good current as the crossing was just past a good sized waterfall. I might have been able to forward if I could have steered clear of all the underwater rocks too. That place was like a minefield!!!
I was also trying to keep my ankle dry as I have a brand new tat.
That got pretty wet though!

[10-K]

Sounds like a bad day all around - having to rescue 5 people and all....

Sounds like you did pretty good under the circumstances. Tomorrow is another day!

[scope]

What kind of shoes? Or soles on the shoes?

[Sierra Echo]

Thank you 10-K that makes me feel better!

Scope I was wearing my Keen ice skates, oops i mean my Keen hiking boots!

[TIDE-HSV]

There was a pretty good current as the crossing was just past a good sized waterfall. I might have been able to forward if I could have steered clear of all the underwater rocks too. That place was like a minefield!!!
I was also trying to keep my ankle dry as I have a brand new tat.
That got pretty wet though!

You and Mike Tyson... :-?

[Sierra Echo]

You and Mike Tyson... :-?

Hey! I haven't bitten anyones ear off!! Well, not yet anyway!

[TIDE-HSV]

I guess safer to get it wet than to have somebody pound on it... :)

[johnnybgood]

We've all have had bad days on the trail . I guessing most hikers have taken an unintended "bath" while attempting to ford a steam.

I have on occasion brought a pair of lightweight water shoes just for that reason,especially if I know the trail has numerous fords .

[Danielsen]

Thank you 10-K that makes me feel better!

Scope I was wearing my Keen ice skates, oops i mean my Keen hiking boots!

Ice skates is right. :D

If you like hopping on rocks in creeks and scaling rocks and such, you need traction. I am a traction addict. The natural go-to shoes for traction are 5.10s (the Savant is made for that kind of stuff). It's like wearing suction cups. Sorry if I sound like an advertiser, but since I first got a pair of shoes with stealth rubber (5.10's proprietary climbing rubber that they put in trail shoes now) I've never been able to take the "grip" of other rubbers seriously.

That was several years ago, though. I hear Vibram has started using some stickier rubbers (TC5 or something) so they might be worth looking at.

Of course, careful movements and balance are more important than any shoe you can wear, but unless you're trying to skate, the more traction the better. :cool:

[Liv2Ride]

......I feel like that was just asking to be injured. ......I feel like a total failure......My question is this. what could I have done differently??

Maybe you could have done something differently but I don't know since I wasn't there and even if I were who's to say that my solutions would have been different.

Bottom-line: I believe you did the right thing. You heard that small soft voice saying that today is not the day to tackle that particular challenge. Now, you are able to try it again another time if you choose and the only injury that you sustained is your pride. No big deal, that too will pass. ;)

[scope]

Thank you 10-K that makes me feel better!

Scope I was wearing my Keen ice skates, oops i mean my Keen hiking boots!

OK, I'm not familiar with the rubber Keen uses, but its not Vibram, right? I'm particular with a sole, especially for hiking. Used running shoes once on AT and had a terrible time on dry rocks. Watch out for "abrasion resistant" rubber. Anyway, I know Vibram is pretty good wet, my Salomon's are, too. In particular, the Ahnu hikers were not, along with those Asics runners.

[Danielsen]

OK, I'm not familiar with the rubber Keen uses, but its not Vibram, right? I'm particular with a sole, especially for hiking. Used running shoes once on AT and had a terrible time on dry rocks. Watch out for "abrasion resistant" rubber. Anyway, I know Vibram is pretty good wet, my Salomon's are, too. In particular, the Ahnu hikers were not, along with those Asics runners.

Keen soles are not vibram, but they ARE slippery. :eek: They seem to be designed along the theory that greater surface area=greater traction, but ignore the fact that this is only true if you use a sticky (soft) rubber.

A good way to look at it: high-surface area-soles (with lots of flat area in contact with the ground) with sticky rubber give the best grip on hard surfaces like rock, especially when smooth or slippery. They work through friction. Low-surface-area (deeply lugged with less in contact with the ground) soles of pretty much any material give you the best grip on softer surfaces like trails, and if made of sticky rubber can give you decent grip on hard surfaces. They work by grabbing at the surface

High-surface-area soles with non-sticky rubber (like the Keens I've played with) are the odd soles out. They just slide on hard surfaces and don't grab soft surfaces. Sure, you can walk in them, but especially for the OP's activities there are much better choices.

I've always liked the design of many of Keen's shoes but the soles have always put me off.

[Sierra Echo]

Is there any trail running shoe that would fit the good tread qualification? Those would be lightweight and I can carry them in my pack and just change at river crossings etc.
As for regular hiking I'm sticking with the Keens. They are very comfortable for my wide flat feet (or shovel as I call them).
I also need the ankle support as I have one ankle that I have sprained at least twice and broken once.

[AHolcomb]

I am a whitewater kayaker, so I deal with alot of wet rock issues. I usually go for Teva Sandels that have velcro around my ankles. Or I would find a NICE pair of water shoe from Teva or NRS (nrsweb.com) My favorite is the Teva P2. Good sole for walking around near creek beds. and Good Ankle support. So if you would have only like 50 yards inbetween crossings you could just keep wearing the shoe.

[sbhikes]

Keens are terrible when it comes to traction. I wore them on a hike once and I would randomly fall down without any warning. This was on dry surfaces. But in water they sucked, too. I'm convinced they are fashion shoes and nothing more.

And by the way, Vibram soles are very slippery too. People only think they are not slippery because of the marketing they do. Even they know their soles are slippery because their VFFs are siped, which is the only way they could get them to provide any traction.

[Danielsen]

Is there any trail running shoe that would fit the good tread qualification? Those would be lightweight and I can carry them in my pack and just change at river crossings etc.
As for regular hiking I'm sticking with the Keens. They are very comfortable for my wide flat feet (or shovel as I call them).
I also need the ankle support as I have one ankle that I have sprained at least twice and broken once.

http://www.zappos.com/five-ten-runamuck-brindle

These have been serving me for a bit over a year as trail/pavement running shoes, road cycling shoes, backpacking (25-30 lbs.) rockhopping shoes, and water shoes. They stick like glue and if they get wet they dry out in a snap.

Or you could just replace your keens (they've gotta wear out sometime) with these if they're wide enough:
http://www.zappos.com/five-ten-exum-guide-twilight

Excellent support, comfortable, and even a little stickier than the Runamucks.

@sbhikes: Do you know if the new vibram compounds are just as slippery as the old ones? I hear the new TC5+ rubber that's showing up in new hiking shoes is also being used in climbing shoes and it makes me curious.

[DavidNH]

Don't feel bad. That is a tough situation you describe.

I don't know if you where using trekking poles or not but these would have helped a lot! you can use poles to 1) measure the depth of the water (can't always tell visually) and 2) they can really help for balance. You might still have slipped on the rocks depending on how you moved but I think poles would help.

Generally speaking, wet rocks are slippery and wet grass and wet soil are very slippery as well!

If you are crossing a stream that is either very fast or deep and you are trying to rock hop on wet slippery rocks, extreme caution is necessary (as you found out).

David

[Sierra Echo]

I am a whitewater kayaker, so I deal with alot of wet rock issues. I usually go for Teva Sandels that have velcro around my ankles. Or I would find a NICE pair of water shoe from Teva or NRS (nrsweb.com) My favorite is the Teva P2. Good sole for walking around near creek beds. and Good Ankle support. So if you would have only like 50 yards inbetween crossings you could just keep wearing the shoe.

Thanks! I have now researched Teva Sandals and I think I'm going to Bass Pro tomorrow to try some on.

[Sierra Echo]

Keens are terrible when it comes to traction. I wore them on a hike once and I would randomly fall down without any warning. This was on dry surfaces. But in water they sucked, too. I'm convinced they are fashion shoes and nothing more.

And by the way, Vibram soles are very slippery too. People only think they are not slippery because of the marketing they do. Even they know their soles are slippery because their VFFs are siped, which is the only way they could get them to provide any traction.

The only time I have ever had problems with my Keen hiking boots was in Tallulah Gorge. Other then that they have been perfect for me.
Now I had a pair of Merrells that absolutely messed up my toe!
I will never own another pair of those!

[Sierra Echo]

http://www.zappos.com/five-ten-runamuck-brindle

These have been serving me for a bit over a year as trail/pavement running shoes, road cycling shoes, backpacking (25-30 lbs.) rockhopping shoes, and water shoes. They stick like glue and if they get wet they dry out in a snap.

Or you could just replace your keens (they've gotta wear out sometime) with these if they're wide enough:
http://www.zappos.com/five-ten-exum-guide-twilight

Excellent support, comfortable, and even a little stickier than the Runamucks.

@sbhikes: Do you know if the new vibram compounds are just as slippery as the old ones? I hear the new TC5+ rubber that's showing up in new hiking shoes is also being used in climbing shoes and it makes me curious.

Those sound nice, but I can't find any place around here that carriers them. I never buy shoes online unless I know for a fact they already fit. My tootsies are never the same size in all shoes!

[Sierra Echo]

Don't feel bad. That is a tough situation you describe.

I don't know if you where using trekking poles or not but these would have helped a lot! you can use poles to 1) measure the depth of the water (can't always tell visually) and 2) they can really help for balance. You might still have slipped on the rocks depending on how you moved but I think poles would help.

Generally speaking, wet rocks are slippery and wet grass and wet soil are very slippery as well!

If you are crossing a stream that is either very fast or deep and you are trying to rock hop on wet slippery rocks, extreme caution is necessary (as you found out).

David

I'm ashamed to say I was totally unprepared. *hangs head*
I had no poles or even my regular stick. When I had envisioned a trail on the floor I hadn't realized I would be crossing the river. It just never came up in anything I had read on the subject. I plan on doing this again in a few weeks. But this time I will know ahead of time what I am getting in too.
The water came up to my thighs (im 5'8) but they had had a major rain storm the night before. This time with my poles and new water shoes I am just going to walk across instead of trying to hop the rocks. I firmly believe that I got God was watching out for me as I did not break any bones or hit my head on another rock. This time I will succeed!

[sbhikes]

I thought you were talking about those keen sandals that are like shoes made of webbing and neoprene. I don't know anything about the boots. If they are like the sandals, well then. The keen sandals may look like river shoes but let me tell you there is nothing worse for river walking. If you want to grind your skin off with sand, then they're pretty good.

[mister krabs]

How about the New Balance 1200's? (http://www.joesnewbalanceoutlet.com/detail.asp?style=WO1201GT&size=&width=&category=woutdoor&selection=wshoes&sort=POP&shoeLast=&price=)

[Dogwood]

Today I got a permit to hike the gorge floor at Tallulah Gorge. Its a strenous hike and the park ranger told me that just yesterday alone they had to rescue 5 people and bring them out.
There is a river crossing where you have to make it from rock to rock to rock. And its fast moving water near a waterfall. Well needless to say I jumped on a slick rock and landed on my back in the water pulling a nice guy who was trying to help me on top of me.
Well after that, everytime i tried to scale a rock my shoes wouldn't grip and I would slide right off. Determined to make it I pressed on til I came to a huge climb. I turned around. I wasn't about to slide down that. I feel like that was just asking to be injured. I made it back across the river crossing but some nice man had to help haul me back up because I couldn't get a grip on the rocks. I feel like a total failure.

My question is this. what could I have done differently??

We could get into a big TA DO about what kind of shoes to wear in such a situation, and, yes, your sole material and tread design does play a role into your slip into the water but what really needs to be said is that water crossings where you jump from rock to rock are simply dangerous. It always feels like a small triumph when you get to the other side of the river/creek without having to remove your shoes, but you have to ask yourself if it's simply just better to ford the river/creek with your shoes on, go barefoot, or have watershoes(sandals) for the crossing(s). I've seen more hikers, including myself, take nasty spills when trying to jump from rock to rock to cross rivers or from exposed wet wood like exposed tree roots or wooden trail construction. Just got to be careful and realize sometimes it's simply just better off to ford the river/creek!

[Sierra Echo]

I can't find shoes in my size. I guess I might end up having to order them off the internet. :(

[Danielsen]

Ordering on the net isn't that bad these days. A lot of shops have fantastic return policies and service (I can speak for zappos.com. Never been dissapointed by them).

[wrongway_08]

Just take the wet shoes off and finish that section in bare feet.

[Sierra Echo]

I went back today and completed the hike in my Tevas!!!! :banana:banana:banana