View Full Version : So...who uses ground cloths?
I've been wondering whether or not it's actually needed to bring along ground cloths for tents. This may be the very last bit of Scouting in me(where we always carried ground clothes and gi-normous Coleman stoves) but for the life of me I'm having a hard time picturing tenting without a ground cloth.
Wouldn't that more easily damage the tent floor if I left it at home? Or, as Jason Klass (http://www.geartalkwithjasonklass.com/2010/07/10-non-essentials.html) suggests, do hikers cycle through tents quick enough that the benefits of ground cloths never outweigh, well, the weight?
thelowend
07-14-2010, 01:27
With my tarptent moment I haven't used a groundcloth yet and it has held up great in heavy, heavy rain.. pools of water starting to form around the tent..all that mess.. The seam sealed silnylon floor did great and got a little damp on the inside but a groundcloth right next to it probably wouldn't have helped much..
FFTorched
07-14-2010, 05:40
Tents? Who uses tents, it's all about the bivy sac. Though watchout for killer morning headache in the morning if you don't get enough air in your sleep system.
Pedaling Fool
07-14-2010, 08:20
Ground cloths are a waste of time/money.
bigcranky
07-14-2010, 08:44
I carry a ground sheet, but not for under my tent. It's a Gossamer Gear polycro groundsheet, cut in half, and weighs less than an ounce.
It's useful when I want to pack up gear on wet ground, or take a break, or put it under my head area in a shelter, etc.
I carry a piece of tyvek - about 4' x 5' and use it for all kinds of stuff. Very handy to have around.
What about the ever-popular tent "footprints"? Seems like added insurance when you're forced to pitch on a rocky patch.
garlic08
07-14-2010, 09:01
When I got my Tarptent Contrail a few years ago, I decided to try an experiment and leave the Tyvek ground cloth behind. Five thousand trail miles later (lots of those in desert) the tent floor is fine. I have not missed the ground cloth at all.
I checked with Henry Shires (Tarptent maker) and he verified that he almost never gets a tent back for floor repair. He wasn't surprised when I told him my story. It's not a matter of cycling through gear. The gear is tougher than we think.
cowboy nichols
07-14-2010, 10:14
I've used an emergecy blanket for years .when I don't tent just use it under my sleeping bag to keep the bag clean cheap and strong.
couscous
07-14-2010, 10:48
One of my sons will be using a GG Polycryo Ground Cloth (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_cloth.html) with my GG Squall Classic this week. It's a little extra protection from twigs poking through the bottom of the tent. My other son and I will be in hammocks this week. The holes in the bottom of a couple of our other tents came from setting up in the dark, tenting in thick woods and not using a ground cloth. If you can avoid either of the first two, you may not need a ground cloth.
Good points. When I tent, I use a small piece of painter's plastic drop cloth so it isn't overly heavy and dirt cheap. Good feedback on this subject.
I sometimes ask myself why anyone ever asks a question on this forum, because the wide range of answers you get can be astounding. You know what they say about opinions...
Do what you feel would work best for you...
I use the footprint that's made for my tent (Fly Creek UL1).
I have no intention of replacing my tent any time soon, and want to avoid damage to its floor.
In a drenching rain, I can pitch the fly and footprint, then hang the tent inside that, which keeps the inside of the tent dry. Works in reverse for taking it down in the rain.
I travel light, but not ultralight. This is a 4oz. compromise that makes sense to me.
I, for one, enjoy these open ended discussions. Of course, there is no universal answer, but the reasons behind the opinions are interesting.
Mountain Wildman
07-14-2010, 13:08
While on my July 4th trip, Camping at Dolly Copp Campground, I had to set up in the designated area which is gravel, I noticed the Nemo Meta 2P black tent floor had white marks where sharp stones were pressing against it, Not sure how close they were to puncturing the floor, And I swept the gravel/dirt ground prior to pitching, So I ordered the Nemo Footprint, I figure it's cheaper than spending 350 for a new tent, I am not sure that I really want to add another 10 ounces to my pack so I will test it and determine if it is worth carrying. Either way it's good to have it for the gravel campgrounds.
I use the footprint that's made for my tent (Fly Creek UL1).
I have no intention of replacing my tent any time soon, and want to avoid damage to its floor.
In a drenching rain, I can pitch the fly and footprint, then hang the tent inside that, which keeps the inside of the tent dry. Works in reverse for taking it down in the rain.
I travel light, but not ultralight. This is a 4oz. compromise that makes sense to me.
I, for one, enjoy these open ended discussions. Of course, there is no universal answer, but the reasons behind the opinions are interesting.
I have the same theory with our tent, we use the footprint made for our Big Agnes Coppur Spur UL3.
I also like the open ended discussions, this one just struck me as funny this time. I have read so many threads where the amount of differing opinions was enough to make your head spin, when I read this one it just made me chuckle :)
garlic08
07-14-2010, 13:34
...I have read so many threads where the amount of differing opinions was enough to make your head spin, when I read this one it just made me chuckle :)
I know what you mean, I do that a lot too when reading this forum.
But it is good to get the range of opinions and methods out there for folks who may not know there even is a range. Like the OP, I was "stuck" in my scouting days for decades, believing that a ground cloth (and lots of other gear) was a necessity. I made the decision to leave mine behind without the input of an internet forum--I hadn't even heard of WB. If I had, I may have been prompted to make the decision earlier. Now I see quite a few others don't carry one either, and I didn't know that. Same with stoveless hiking--if I'd have known others were doing it, I might have made the change a little earlier.
There's another thread going now about what you like about WB, and this is one of them for me.
I always bring a ground sheet of some sort. Never know where you have to pitch sometimes and the protection can come in handy. The few ounces is worth it. I actually just picked up an emergency blanket to try under tent. Could be the best $4- that I spent.
I got a fitted foot print for my MSR Skinny Too real cheap, but other than that, I never spend the ridiculously price that they cost. Unless you plan on using the fly only pitch.
A nice piece of tyvek can be used for several things other than a ground cloth. Water collection, extra wrap if you're too cold, flag, dish pan (line ditch in ground), and folded a nice seat on a rock at lunch, I'm sure there are more uses......
buzzamania
07-14-2010, 18:48
Totally useless if you hang in a hennessy hammock. although I do keep a 2x2 sheet of tyvek on hand to put my gear on and to set my camp shoes on under my fly.
How much do you think a 6 x 2 piece of Tyvek would weigh?
And where can you buy in in small quantities?
like 10-K, I always carry a small sheet of Tyvek, about 4' x 5'. I use it with both a Tarptent Moment and Tarptent Contrail..... it's handy for a small floor under the vestibule area, helps keep dirt out of the tent when you go in and out.... also use it as a ground cloth for lunch breaks along the trail. weight is insignificant, a few ounces
garlic08
07-14-2010, 21:37
...And where can you buy in in small quantities?
Hiker trash don't buy Tyvek. Scrounge scraps from building sites (ask first, and make sure it's clean). When I used to carry it, I could even find replacement pieces in trail towns.
That's assuming people are still building houses. If not, I do remember seeing one of the smaller tent makers selling small pieces. Also, if you need to buy something, look at Gossamer Gear's polycryo. It's a fraction of the weight.
I sometimes ask myself why anyone ever asks a question on this forum, because the wide range of answers you get can be astounding. You know what they say about opinions...
I was expecting a "Tent? Who tents??" response within the first three posts. I wasn't disappointed. :D
frisbeefreek
07-15-2010, 22:38
You can buy tyvek by the foot on ebay (generally $1 for 1x9foot).
I used tyvek last year, but switched to 0.8mil painters plastic. Saved 3oz (the plastic weighs about 1.2oz) on a 84"x32" groundcloth. It costs ~$1.49 at Walmart. Lasted 2200 miles this year, no problem.
I find the plastic keeps my tent cleaner, otherwise a lot of wet dirt and leaves get rolled up and gets on my gear.
WalksInDark
07-17-2010, 21:28
I won't give you the sales pitch for hammocking...LOL...and instead will give you my opinion on tent footprints.
I bought the footprint that was made for my tent ($50) and have found it to be both an excellent investment ----all most all of my tenting is up in the Appalachians and the ground is frequently strewn with sharp poking up rocks, downed tree limbs, and small bushes (many with sharp thorns or points); additionally, I am almost always using a tent once winter hits so frozen ground and/or snow cover is almost always a concern.
By using my tent footprint my tent (+$400) goes up much faster, my tent bathtub stays dryer and gets much less wear and my vestibules have a floor so that I can really use them for gear storage. Last winter when I got caught in an overnight 3’ snow dump, I kept knocking the snow off of the roof of the tent….so naturally all of the snow built up on the sides of the tent and bent the tent supports inward. Because my tent has fixed attachment points on the top of the tent…and so does the footprint, I had no problems with the heavy snow load.
I have a free standing tent (as long as it is mounted on the footprint) so that if I make camp late or am really tired, I don't even have to worry about staking the tent. Just put my sleeping bag, pad, etc. inside; my backpack and boots in the vestibules and I am good to go ’til morning. Yes, I always stake down my tent once I wake up....but boy is it easier when you have had 8-10 hours of restful sleep…and can do it in the daylight.
I should also add that I am not a gram weenie. I would much rather be able to kneel on my tent floor without worrying about getting wet from a wet/frozen floor or tent floor damage....than worry about the additional 10 oz weight of the footprint.
Cookerhiker
04-05-2012, 14:36
Looking at groundcloth options for my new Mountain Hardwear Sprite 1, I just returned from JoAnn's Fabrics with a piece of handcut ripstop nylon. Rolls up nicely. About $30 less than the tent's footprint would have been. Its first use comes next week when I cycle the C&O Canal.
brian039
04-05-2012, 14:43
For Eastern hiking I don't think one is necessary but it would extend the life of your tent floor. Would you still cycle through to a new tent before it wore out anyways? I don't know, I've had my tent for 2 years and took it on thru-hikes of the AT and Colorado trail without a ground-cloth and it's still doing fine so I would tend to agree with that. Out West I'd say they are more worth it to carry because the ground is rougher on your tent and would more likely end your tent's life prematurely.
I use the Gossamer Gear Polycryo. It helps keep the bottom of the tent clean and a couple of times I've actually used it for rain gear/extra warmth over my torso when I've been caught without any rain gear.
peakbagger
04-05-2012, 15:11
Heck, I carried a tyvek type product that I used in shelters (offseason). Even with a good sweeping, the floor could be quite dirty and I would rather just replace the tyvek on occasion then have to clean up my thermrests or sleeping bag, when I used my bivy sack, I usually used the tyvek.
Ground cloths are a waste of time/money.
If you want to throw away a $300 tent at the end of your thru-hike, don't tarp or cowboy camp, you could say that. Otherwise it's a cheap, sound investment.
coach lou
04-05-2012, 15:41
My Poncho is my ground cloth
If you are going to carry a ground cloth, Tyvek would be the heaviest, painters plastic would be second heaviest (in about 1 - 2 mil thickness), polycro would be the lightest. Why carry a fitted, expensive footprint when ti basically can only serve one purpose? A piece of polycro or plastic can be serve several purposes and costs a fraction of the money.
As far as worrying about replacing a tent, if you do put a tear in your floor you can always patch it. If it gets worn out or several patches you can always replace the floor (cut it out, sew a new piece of the same material in there). It's not the end of the world.
I found a tarp at wally world called a Soft Tarp. It is red non woven top and coated gray waterproof bottom. It is 5x7 and should make the perfect inside the tent ground cloth-nonslip top and moisture barrier bottom.
I use 'em. Usually a sheet of Tyvek then more recently I transitioned to an Equinox ultra-sil nylon sheet. Nice inside the shelter too or even on the ground when spreading out and sorting gear or food.
Cookerhiker
04-06-2012, 10:15
...As far as worrying about replacing a tent, if you do put a tear in your floor you can always patch it. If it gets worn out or several patches you can always replace the floor (cut it out, sew a new piece of the same material in there). It's not the end of the world.
Also, a manufacturer may repair a hole in the tent floor or replace it under warranty. My tent floor tore on the Colorado Trail last year; Mountain Hardwear offered a new tent at a substantial discount. I took it.
Reasons for carrying a ground cloth:
- Protect expensive tent floor from abrasion
- Clean place to spread out your gear in a filthy shelter
- Keeps small items from falling through the cracks in floor of some shelters
- Dry place to sit on rainy day breaks
- Dry place to lay your bag when cowboy camping
- Dry floor for tarp camping
- Good, dry place to spread your gear while breaking camp - dry and fewer lost items
- Possibly emergency shelter
- Possible rain cover for pack/gear when tent/tarp not up
- Keeps tent floor much cleaner
- Picnic blanket for fancy lunch breaks
My take on ground cloths...
http://www.pmags.com/ground-cloths-a-quick-overview
(Anytime I write the same response over the years...I tend to write an article. :) )
miquest2012
04-06-2012, 13:04
TYVEK!...lightweight and protection for your tent bottom...provides good emergency shelter in hailstorms too, trust me.
kayaker4ever
04-06-2012, 13:11
With my tarptent moment I haven't used a groundcloth yet and it has held up great in heavy, heavy rain.. pools of water starting to form around the tent..all that mess.. The seam sealed silnylon floor did great and got a little damp on the inside but a groundcloth right next to it probably wouldn't have helped much..
This is why I always advise not using the ground cloth under the tent. Use it inside because even if you use it under the tent you will still have moisture on the inside floor and a ground cloth, space blanket, Tyvek what ever between the floor and your sleeping bag keeps it from soaking up that moisture.
Whack-a-mole
04-08-2012, 21:20
I bought a small sil-nylon tarp at Wal-mart, and put my tent on it, marked the corners with a sharpie and cut off the excess around the edges and the grommets. Use it as a ground cloth to save my tent, but the best part is putting it on the floor of the shelters to simply cut down on the dirt and dust on my gear. It also did a great job of cutting down on the updrafts thru the shelter floor when it was 20 degrees. Once you cut off all the extra material it only weighs a couple ounces.
My take on ground cloths...
http://www.pmags.com/ground-cloths-a-quick-overview
(Anytime I write the same response over the years...I tend to write an article. :) )
^^^^^^ What that man said.
Reasons for carrying a ground cloth:
- Protect expensive tent floor from abrasion
- Clean place to spread out your gear in a filthy shelter
- Keeps small items from falling through the cracks in floor of some shelters
- Dry place to sit on rainy day breaks
- Dry place to lay your bag when cowboy camping
- Dry floor for tarp camping
- Good, dry place to spread your gear while breaking camp - dry and fewer lost items
- Possibly emergency shelter
- Possible rain cover for pack/gear when tent/tarp not up
- Keeps tent floor much cleaner
- Picnic blanket for fancy lunch breaks
Sprayed with Permethrin, it might just keep ticks off of you while cowboy camping, too. ;)
Tyvek might be the best for this as it is slightly permeable and the Permethrin might actually adhere to it better than extruded plastics.
on_the_GOEZ
04-08-2012, 23:37
I carry my piece of Tyvek for when I cowboy or sleep in shelters - basically every night. Helps keep my gear cleaner all around. I use a tarp exclusively, too. No tent. If I did carry a tent, I wouldnt carry a groundcloth. Just seems redundant.
Leanthree
04-09-2012, 00:30
Tyvek groundsheet inside the tent.
1)Keeps out moisture from coming up through the floor and 2)if there is ever windblown water/mist coming in under my rainfly I can hike it up in one direction or another to stop it from hitting my bag without getting out of my tent. 3)Still protects the tent floor as any friction between me and the floor hits the tyvek and not the tent floor that is rubbing against any sticks or rocks. 4)Also good multi tasker for various reasons stated above.
SassyWindsor
04-09-2012, 01:05
I use my orange Poncho for: tent ground barrier, pack cover, water collection, tarp, shade, fire starter, seat cushion, emergency signal and, for it's intended purpose, a rain jacket.:D
Cookerhiker
04-09-2012, 11:09
I use my orange Poncho for: tent ground barrier, pack cover, water collection, tarp, shade, fire starter, seat cushion, emergency signal and, for it's intended purpose, a rain jacket.:D
Fire starter?:-?
Edwardo Rodriguez
04-09-2012, 11:27
I got http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier to go with my gatewood cape and my net tent. One of the major reason I both it was to protect my neoair pad it weighs 4.5oz
coach lou
04-09-2012, 12:07
Fire starter?:-?
Yea.......Sassy, how's that work?
Funkmeister
04-09-2012, 12:42
This is just a guess, but I'd say she uses it as a fan to blow on the tinder.
Odd Man Out
04-09-2012, 12:43
Yea.......Sassy, how's that work?
Tents work as fire starters too. Silnylon burns real well. So does the down in the sleeping bag. Isn't that why we keep it dry? :rolleyes:
coach lou
04-09-2012, 13:48
Tents work as fire starters too. Silnylon burns real well. So does the down in the sleeping bag. Isn't that why we keep it dry? :rolleyes:
I've seen Baker Tents go up pretty quick!