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Old River Rat
07-14-2010, 06:41
I am sure that the entire AT cannot be paved. But . . . . in many pictures you observe boardwalks and what appears to be placed stones. How much of this do you see along the trail?

Marta
07-14-2010, 07:00
I don't know the percentage, but probably less than 1% is paved with stones or boards.

Parts of the trail are very heavily used. For instance, in the Smokies, the trail from Newfound Gap to Charlie's Bunion has thousands and thousands of dayhikers along it every year. During peak tourist season, there's a constant stream of people walking a short way up the mountain. All those pounding feet do a lot of damage to the trail, so there are lots of stones set in to harden the path.

couscous
07-14-2010, 09:29
Some of the boardwalks are in floodplains like the Pochuck Creek crossing in NJ. (NOBO 1346.1) There is much less impact on fragile ecosystems if you provide a walkway that encourages hikers to stay on the trail.

ExosC3
07-14-2010, 10:25
Some of the boardwalks are in floodplains like the Pochuck Creek crossing in NJ. (NOBO 1346.1) There is much less impact on fragile ecosystems if you provide a walkway that encourages hikers to stay on the trail.
that section would also be impossible without them...i kinda like it every now and then. theyre kinda dangerous in the fall when its wet and full of leaves and all slimy tho...

Pedaling Fool
07-14-2010, 10:45
that section would also be impossible without them...i kinda like it every now and then. theyre kinda dangerous in the fall when its wet and full of leaves and all slimy tho...
I was thinking the same thing, basically. I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me that that boardwalk was basically over swamp.

couscous
07-14-2010, 10:52
http://purebound.com/AT/new_jersey_new_york/pochuck_creek_walkway.jpg

JAK
07-14-2010, 11:09
I like trails that are paved or boarded when done by hand, on a human scale, using natural and local materials, and traditional methods. Done right, it not only protects the trail and eco-systems, but enhances, and eventually becomes an integral part of it. Our ultimate goal should be our re-integration with nature. A nature trail is a wonderful way to express that ambition.

ExosC3
07-14-2010, 11:25
I was thinking the same thing, basically. I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me that that boardwalk was basically over swamp.
yep, basically all swampy...heres the section im thinking about...theres also a legit boardwalk section like pictured above that was party of a re-route 10 or so years ago but i like this stuff better

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/aarondykstra/boards.jpg

JAK
07-14-2010, 11:52
I prefer local trees over lumber, but you have to work with what is available. Maybe long term they could try and promote to growth of local species that are rot resistent, and then use them as needed. Hard to get more natural or local than that. Up here we have Eastern White Cedar and Tamarack. Eastern white cedar is becoming endangered, because it is too slow growing for commercial replanting, but the use of it in this manner would actually help to protect and promote it.

emerald
07-14-2010, 12:47
I like the your thinking and the ideas it generates, but I doubt growing timber on-site is feasible in all instances especially at higher latitudes and elevations. Where suitable materials are available, rock structures can be a better long-term solution.

Black locust is another species which might be planted and managed for water bars and puncheon sills.

weary
07-14-2010, 13:09
In trail circles, the bridging formed by two or three parallel logs or planks are mostly referred to as "bog bridging." When properly used such bog bridging is used mostly to protect the trail, not necessarily to keep hikers feet from getting wet. Without bridging hikers tend to skirt wet areas, resulting in the trail getting wider and wider.

Without bridging over boggy areas the 2 foot wide foot path quickly widens to 5 feet, 10 feet, sometimes even wider. I've seen them 20 or more feet wide. Once bridged the surrounding vegetation tends to grow back, restoring much of the natural appearance. Planks are used for areas near roads to avoid cutting the natural large trees. Planks are also cheaper if a paid trail crew does the work. In the back country bog bridging usually requires the selective cutting of large trees and their milling using chain saws.

Other techniques are also used by trail maintainers. Stepping stones are sufficient in some conditions. "Causeways" are needed occasionally. The latter are ususally made with two parallel rows of large stones, with the middle filled with smaller stones and dirt. Often a ditch is dug on one or both sides to carry away the water.

There are scores of other techniques used by experienced trail maintainers. Trails are not always as simple as they sometimes appear.

Weary

weary
07-14-2010, 13:14
http://purebound.com/AT/new_jersey_new_york/pochuck_creek_walkway.jpg
Sometimes such board walks are required in order to get the trail off road ways.

JAK
07-14-2010, 13:18
I would agree that rock is better in some instances, and rot resistant timber is better in other instances. It was much easier to do what made the most sense naturally before the introduction of modern machines and transportation. When everything had to be carried by humans, or perhaps men and beasts, we tended to look around and see what might be closer at hand. There is at least one section of the Fundy Footpath where we can still see the remains of an old corduroy road, from they days that part of the Fundy Coast was more actively mined and logged. Also, lots of remnants of other logging roads, and wharves, and even an old boiler. Most of it has decayed nicely back into wilderness. Now they are extending the Fundy Trail Parkway, with modern means of bridge and road construction and excavation and retaining wall and drainage work. It will be a scenic drive, and will still leave most of the shoreline undisturbed, though less remote. I am not sure how well it will decay back into wilderness though, in the fullness of time. I suppose even the Roman Roads and Walls were eye-sores to some people in their day, whereas now they are a beautiful part of the landscape. Do you suppose 2000 years from today people we be actively preserving and protecting and mourning the loss of historic ashphalt, rusted steel, and reinforced concrete? One might hope they will have the luxury to do so, if not the wisdom to do otherwise.

JAK
07-14-2010, 13:26
In trail circles, the bridging formed by two or three parallel logs or planks are mostly referred to as "bog bridging." When properly used such bog bridging is used mostly to protect the trail, not necessarily to keep hikers feet from getting wet. Without bridging hikers tend to skirt wet areas, resulting in the trail getting wider and wider.

Without bridging over boggy areas the 2 foot wide foot path quickly widens to 5 feet, 10 feet, sometimes even wider. I've seen them 20 or more feet wide. Once bridged the surrounding vegetation tends to grow back, restoring much of the natural appearance. Planks are used for areas near roads to avoid cutting the natural large trees. Planks are also cheaper if a paid trail crew does the work. In the back country bog bridging usually requires the selective cutting of large trees and their milling using chain saws.

Other techniques are also used by trail maintainers. Stepping stones are sufficient in some conditions. "Causeways" are needed occasionally. The latter are ususally made with two parallel rows of large stones, with the middle filled with smaller stones and dirt. Often a ditch is dug on one or both sides to carry away the water.

There are scores of other techniques used by experienced trail maintainers. Trails are not always as simple as they sometimes appear.

WearyFascinating stuff Weary. I can only theorize what you have experienced and practiced. It will be interesting to see how this sort of work evolves over the years, especially in more remote areas. The human-scale stuff is most interesting to me. Stuff built more by humans for humans, rather than more by machines for machines. Also, with protection of the environment in mind, we tend to think more about the environment in the process. Engineering, and economics, is getting more interesting, once again.

JAK
07-14-2010, 13:28
For all the trail maintainers out there, ancient and modern...


The Sons of Martha

The Sons of Mary seldom bother, for they have inherited that good part;
But the Sons of Martha favour their Mother of the careful soul and troubled heart.
And because she lost her temper once, and because she was rude to the Lord her Guest,
Her Sons must wait upon Mary's Sons, world without end, reprieve, or rest.
It is their care in all the ages to take the buffet and cushion the shock.
It is their care that the gear engages; it is their care that the switches lock.
It is their care that the wheels run truly; it is their care to embark and entrain,
Tally, transport, and deliver duly the Sons of Mary by land and main.

They say to mountains, 'Be ye removed'. They say to the lesser floods, 'Be dry'.
Under their rods are the rocks reproved - they are not afraid of that which is high.
Then do the hill-tops shake to the summit - then is the bed of the deep laid bare,
That the Sons of Mary may overcome it, pleasantly sleeping and unaware.

They finger death at their gloves' end where they piece and repiece the living wires.
He rears against the gates they tend: they feed him hungry behind their fires.
Early at dawn, ere men see clear, they stumble into his terrible stall,
And hale him forth like a haltered steer, and goad and turn him till evenfall.

To these from birth is Belief forbidden; from these till death is Relief afar.
They are concerned with matter hidden - under the earthline their altars are;
The secret fountains to follow up, waters withdrawn to restore to the mouth,
And gather the floods as in a cup, and pour them again at a city drouth.

They do not preach that their God will rouse them a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not teach that His Pity allows them to leave their work when they damn-well choose.
As in the thronged and the lighted ways, so in the dark and the desert they stand.
Wary and watchful all their days that their brethren's days may be long in the land.

Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat:
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that:
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, not as a witness to any creed,
But simple service simply given to his own kind in their common need.

And the Sons of Mary smile and are blessed - they know the angels are on their side.
They know in them is the Grace confessed, and for them are the Mercies multiplied.
They sit at the Feet - they hear the Word - they see how truly the Promise Runs:
They have cast their burden upon the Lord, and - the Lord He lays it on Martha's Sons.

Rudyard Kipling

Appalachian Tater
07-14-2010, 19:33
I am sure that the entire AT cannot be paved. But . . . . in many pictures you observe boardwalks and what appears to be placed stones. How much of this do you see along the trail? Very few boardwalks but placed stones and small logs frequently. There is some truly beautiful and amazing rockwork on the trail, including plenty done by people who are long dead.

When there is a bog bridge it is usually something to be very grateful for--most of the time you would be halfway to your knees in mud without it.

The reason it seems like there is so much of this in photos is because people take shots of what is unusual along the trail, not what is usual.

emerald
07-14-2010, 19:37
In trail circles, the bridging formed by two or three parallel logs or planks are mostly referred to as "bog bridging."

I was born different and created to call to the attention of others details about our surroundings many consider unimportant. According to NPS (http://www.nps.gov/noco/parkmgmt/upload/NCT_CH5.pdf), puncheon, boardwalks and bridges refer to 3 distinct kinds of structures.

I'm not a fan of the generic term bog bridging because sometimes these structures don't span bogs (http://www.epa.gov/wetlands/types/bog.html). Call the structure puncheon if you want to use the correct term.

Lone Wolf
07-14-2010, 19:40
I was born different and created to call to the attention of others details about our surroundings many consider unimportant. According to NPS (http://www.nps.gov/noco/parkmgmt/upload/NCT_CH5.pdf), puncheon, boardwalks and bridges refer to 3 distinct kinds of structures.

I'm not a fan of the generic term bog bridging because sometimes these structures don't span bogs (http://www.epa.gov/wetlands/types/bog.html).

oy vey :rolleyes: they're all bog bridges to me

emerald
07-14-2010, 19:52
Es tut mir auch weh!

Lone Wolf
07-14-2010, 19:56
i'm sure it does

weary
07-14-2010, 20:47
I was born different and created to call to the attention of others details about our surroundings many consider unimportant. According to NPS (http://www.nps.gov/noco/parkmgmt/upload/NCT_CH5.pdf), puncheon, boardwalks and bridges refer to 3 distinct kinds of structures.

I'm not a fan of the generic term bog bridging because sometimes these structures don't span bogs (http://www.epa.gov/wetlands/types/bog.html). Call the structure a boardwalk if you want to use the correct term.
Well, Emerald. You got it almost right. You should have stopped while you were ahead. The park service is right. Puncheon, board walks, and bridging refer to three distinct kinds of structures.

Your mistake is failing to recognize that what ATC and most trail maintenance and construction manuals refer to as "puncheons or bog bridging" are synonymous. They are what maintainers -- in Maine at least, and probably most trail clubs in the north -- also refer to as simply "bog bridging," i.e. a structure that bridges a bog or muddy area. We also have bridges, far more elaborate structures that bridge streams -- sometimes even rivers.

The northeast has been deeply scarred by glaciers. Bogs are common. The need for bridging these bogs is common. Not to ease passage by people, but to ease damage to the natural environment. Bridges are for people. Bog bridges are for the trail environment.

A "bridge" without the suffix "bog" covers all manner of waterways. In an effort to be precise, we add bog to the description.

Weary

Edie
07-14-2010, 20:53
Knit picking-any process of finding or pointing out tiny details or errors, particularly if the pointed-out details seem insignificant or irrelevant to all but the finder.

ExosC3
07-14-2010, 22:53
heres some more boards in jersey

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/aarondykstra/10221_568317275798_33702557_3316721.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/aarondykstra/10221_568317295758_33702557_3316721.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/aarondykstra/10221_568317375598_33702557_3316723.jpg

emerald
07-22-2010, 22:04
Thank you for posting the images illustrating the difference between boardwalks and puncheon.

Many structures might be properly called bog bridges, but not all wetlands (http://www.epa.gov/wetlands/types/) are bogs.

Pedaling Fool
07-23-2010, 08:55
...And not all wet lands are wetlands.

LIhikers
07-23-2010, 09:39
There's another boardwalk, like the one in NJ, being built in NY. It goes across the great swamp that's just south, on the trail, from the AT Train Stop. There are hundreds of feet already done with much more still to go.