View Full Version : tarptent vrs. 6moons lunar solo
I've asked almost the identical question before, but I want to try it again. I have narrowed my shelter choice to a Shires tarptent (WITH extended beak, sewn-in floor, and bug netting) or the new SixMoonDesigns Lunar Solo.
Both companies now have their products on sale until the end of November, so I want to make the final choice as soon as possible. The money isn't that big of a deal, but still $50 is $50.
Please tell me if I'm missing anything. First, both shelters are roughly the same weight, both are from very reputable companies, both have options of bug netting and a floor, and both allow the user to forego carrying a tent pole by using a hiking pole in lieu thereof. Neither is free standing.
The tarptent (Squall) has substantially more space than the Solo and it is a known quantity given that many have experience with it. But the tarptent does seem to have a bit of a problem with condensation. Also, the tarptent doesn't seem to have a way of totally blocking out blowing rain.
The Solo is a new product with no track record. But the company has a good reputation and I trust that they wouldn't release a crappy, poorly designed product. It comes with the option of a heavier floor, and it seems that it would be able to keep a user dry in blowing rain because it can be "enclosed" (I don't know the proper terminology).
I like the extra space of the tarptent, but I don't particularly like its seeming problem with condensation and blowing rain. I like the Solo because the vestibule can be enclosed, thus presumably keeping the user dry in blowing rain.
So between the two, is it a case of both being relatively equal? Flip a coin?
Sorry for posting this topic again, and I'm probably making a big deal over nothing. That said, any final advice/thoughts would be appreciated. And I swear that I'll shut up about this topic.
Thanks.
illininagel
11-11-2004, 10:00
I'm also very interested in any responses to your post. I am facing the exact same choice in tents.
I also need a tent that can accomodate a tall hiker as I am 6'3" and do not want to be hitting the walls of a wet tent.
tlbj6142
11-11-2004, 10:12
The tarptent with extended beak is just as storm worthly as the Lunar. You can pin the sides to the ground and with the extended beak the front and back (on all models) are about as storm proof as you can get. Besides, there are not too many places on the AT where you can get wind driven rain. What about the Virga?
Don't worry about condensation. All single wall tents have condensation issues. Its kind of hard to defeat mother nature on this issue with a single wall tent. Leave the "beaks" up and the mesh open weather and bug permitting. And you'll be fine. Expect a bit of moisture on the inside, but it ain't gonna rain. Besides, silnylon dries in seconds. Just shake it out before you leave camp. Or wipe your bandanna across the inside before you wrap it around your head.
I'd go with the lightest option. 'cause you are rarely going to use it. So, there is no point lugging around 5-6oz just for one "feature". Shelters are just too damn convient and as a thru-hiker you are going to get very lazy when it comes to setting up camp.
Given that you are probably better off with a tarp and a fully enclosed bugnet insert. This way you can use the bugnet insert in a shelter. And you'll have the option to use the tarp the handful of times you don't use the shelters.
Go find the cheapest 8'x10' silnylon tarp you can find, cut 6-8 3' guylines (put loops in each end). And 2 8' guylines (loops in each end). And 6 light weight stakes and 2 heavier stakes (like MSR ground hogs). Then go out and buy an A16 bug bivy. Ship it to Perrisburg, VA to pick up with the rest of your summer gear. Oh, don't forget a 3'x8' piece of 2-3mil plastic for your gound cloth. Pratice setting up the tarp in your backyard (or on the college green<g>).
I bet you'll be able to count the number of times you use the tarp on one hand by the time you get to Damascus.
Now if you plan to hike elsewhere (besides the AT), I'd still go with the tarp as they are more flexible. But you have to use them a few times before you realize that. Sort of a chicken and the egg issue. But if you must have a fully enclosed tent, I'd go with the Lunar Solo as it is a bit lighter than the Virga.
Some of us just don't sleep well in A.T. shelters, so having a good tent, tarp, or tarp-tent is essential. In the eight years it took to section-hike the A.T., I only stayed in seven shelters.
Comparing the Shires tarp-tents to the Six Moons Solo is comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison would be the Shires' to the Six Moon Designs Europa II. The latter is more comparable in size and geometry, and has most of the same features as Shires' tarp-tents. The Europa II is comparable in weight, tho slightly heavier.
I like the bathtub-style floor of the Europa II (purchased Aug. '04). The ventilation is about the same in either brand of tarp-tent, tho each (the Shires' models or the Europa II) uses slightly different methods to get there. As stated above, there's going to be condensation inside any portable shelter if the conditions are right, so you learn to live with it. Carrying a half-dozen or so sheets of those wringable, re-useable blue "shop towels" Wal-Mart sells on a roll helps me cope.
Any of the Shires or the Europa II are definitely easy and fast to put up or take down.
I tend to like the entryway to the Shires a little better (the way the door's netting zips up), but not well enough to sway my purchase decision.
The Europa II also offers an optional 4-oz. vestibule, which IMO is better than the Shires' "beak" for keeping out driving horizontal rain and wind and creating a relatively safe place to cook in a downpour. You won't use it that often, but for 4 oz. you'll be glad to have it when you need it.
I was disappointed with the quality of the Europa II seam-sealing job I paid a few bucks extra for, and wound up re-doing it myself. You never stop learning.
Hope my anecdotes help. Undoubtedly others will have more to add.
Kerosene
11-11-2004, 12:19
I chose the Europa II, mainly for the better positioning of the side mesh. The biggest complaint I've heard about the Squall is the potential for "mud splash" through the side mesh in a hard rain when sited on a muddy patch.
I like the design of the Lunar Solo and have been seriously considering converting in order to save another half-pound over the Europa II. I think it has a better design than the Virga and provides more flexibility with slightly better ventilation.
I would absolutely never set foot on the AT without my own shelter of sorts. I had a love-hate relationship with them this summer and couldn't imagine always being confined to them.
I have a Virga with an extended beak and like it. The design is solid and I've used it across the AT and the GDT. I'll bad mouth it, briefly, as you might find these points helpful. The most annoying features are:
1) Silnylon stretches when it gets wet (rain, heavy condensation). There were times when I'd wake up with not much room between myself and the tarp and would have to slither out of my bag to stay dry. Restaking fixes the problem. Setting up your tarp an hour before you hit the sack, and then restaking helps as well. Henry is working on a self tensioning device.
2) When rain comes down, it has a tendency to run down the silnylon, onto the netting, and down it onto the groundcloth. This problem is easily fixed, simply by using a slightly oversized groundcloth and bathtubbing with it.
3) The rear arch pole broke not once, but twice. The first time it was after about 10 uses. Henry sent me a new one that was a little shorter. That was fine on the rest of the AT and the GDT, but it shattered while I was living out on the Pacific for a while. Henry sent me a new one and confirmed that Easton had sent him a bad batch of poles (not curved enough): Others, like the clutch of PCT hikers known as the Unit or the Shire (they were all in tarptents) had the same problem. This isn't Henry's fault at all.
4) I am unsure as to the durability of the rear end. It takes some work to get the rear arch pole set in place and there are no convenient loops to reef on to get it set. I have seen no problems thus far, but it concerns me for next summer.
All said, there is no way I would get the Six Moon's tarp, given that I already have the Virga. If I had neither, I would probably still go with the Virga (with the extended beak). It is storm worthy (even without pinning the edges of the tarp to the ground as YellowJacket mentions). It is as bug proof as any tent. It is reasonably light. The Lunar is probably a great tarp as well, but I have known too many people who have used the tarp tent with great success. I see little reason to try something new and different on the hope that it might be as good, or even slightly better, than an already outstanding product.
Right now, the Virga is $145 (with beak) and the Lunar is $175. I'd save the $30 myself.
MileMonster
11-11-2004, 14:00
I dig my Tarptent. Condensation is not a big deal. One error in your features list of the two shelters: you can use a trekking pole instead of a tent pole for the front of the Tarptent but the rear, curved tent pole must be used. No trekking pole substitutions for this one. Don't know if that tips your scale, lol, but just so you know.
I chose the Europa II, mainly for the better positioning of the side mesh. The biggest complaint I've heard about the Squall is the potential for "mud splash" through the side mesh in a hard rain when sited on a muddy patch.
Yeah, that was a deciding factor for me, too. I saw these Shires' tarp-tents set up at Trail Days, and a couple of times on the Trail itself, and it just seemed like a problem waiting to happen. Apparently (according to two Shire tarp-tent users anyway) you can guy out the sides to somewhat help with mud-splash, but it doesn't really eliminate it when conditions can't be helped.
The Europa II bathtub style floor puts the mesh further up the side "walls," plus the side flaps you guy out protects you further while allowing decent cross-ventilation. These side flaps probably add a few ozs. to the overall weight, but they're a smart decision. To get such a large, luxurious footprint in a tent that weighs about 2 lbs. is a great advancement in backpacking shelters. I say tent because, except for the Leki pole support in the front, the Europa II says "tent" to me a lot more than it says "tarp."
Ramble~On
11-11-2004, 16:56
I had the same problem making a decision.
Shires Tarptent.
Europa II.
or Golite Trig 2.
I went with a Trig 2.
Reasons...weight, price, ease of setup, color (it blends in)
room, vestibule, mesh netting, floor sewn in.
Maybe I'd be just as happy if I'd gone with either of the others, maybe not.
I know I am happy with the Trig.
Footslogger
11-11-2004, 17:10
Saw several comments herea about splashback on the Tarptent. Just for the record, Henry Shire now offers a "bathtub" style floor on all his tents. I have owned the Squall for quite a while now and never had that problem but when I found out that the option was now available I called Henry directly. For $20 he will upgrade any of his tarptents with the bathtub style floor.
Slogger
AT 2003
Kerosene
11-11-2004, 21:14
Great to hear that Henry upgraded. I'm pretty sure that he and Six Moon share design ideas and correspond.
There were a lot of TarpTents out in Georgia this April.
I hiked with the Europa, and have the Lunar which I will take out on its maiden overnight over the weekend. I will post impressions Monday.
frankcornbread
11-12-2004, 09:55
This applies to your question regarding experience with Tarptent's Squall. Summer and early fall east coast camping generated much condensation w/ only one occupant. Summer in the Rockies we were bone dry inside w/ two occupants. My east coast camp was in a hollow w/ little breeze, however, so I attribute the condensation issue to that. The Rockies campsites both afforded good breezes. Henry mentions the need for some air movement to reduce condensation. This of course would be neccessary with any single wall design. The bigger issue with condensation for me was exiting the tent in the morning and staying relatively dry. Due to the center pole bisecting the entrance/exit one must go around where the roof/wall is shorter and closer to the ground. Not a huge deal but some annoyance. For this reason alone I wrote Henry and arranged a swapout for the Cloudburst which has a hooped entrance. All problems solved now. Sidewalls are steeper and I can exit dryly in the morning. More room for two as well getting undressed and in the bags. The Squall required a one-at-a-time approach for this process. Both tents have the bathtub option which pretty much takes care of ground water and splash back. The Cloudburst has drop down sides also which can be raised to increase ventilation or lowered for storm protection. Both tents ventilate extremely well given a breeze. Of note here, once out of the tent which was wet inside from the nights condensation, it dried quickly of it's own accord. In otherwords with even no breeze the chimney effect of the design generates some ventilation, just not enough for sleeping in a damp, east coast hollow in the fall of the year. I doubt, looking at the Six-Moons solo design that ventilation would be better, probably worse due to the entrapment at the high end which the Tarptent design does not have with the beak open. All in all, I would most highly reccommend either Tarptent design. Very well made and Henry is great to work with.
FC
tlbj6142
11-12-2004, 10:18
I doubt, looking at the Six-Moons solo design that ventilation would be better, probably worse due to the entrapmentThe beak opens on the The Lunar Solo as well. (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/images/LS_f5.jpg) The Lunar doesn't have the pole in your face issues like the Tarptents as the pole is "to the side" of the door opening (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/images/LS_f5.jpg).
When designing the Lunar Solo I had several problems in mind that I wanted to solve. Chief among them was the problem with “Dead Zones” that are common to single walled tents and small tarps. Dead zones are areas where gear can accumulate but become difficult or impossible to retrieve without getting wet, once condensation forms on the walls of the shelter. Long tents with low canopy over the foot of the sleeping bags are especially venerable.
The Lunar Solo is designed so that when sitting up you can reach all areas of the floor with minimum contact with the shelter wall. This allows you to retrieve and pack your gear without the need to belly crawl in and out of your tent.
Another problem I wanted to minimize is something I generally refer to as “Night Freeze”. That’s a condition where you wake up in the middle of the night to reposition yourself to get comfortable. In the process your hand touches the sidewall of your tent and gets wet from condensation. From then on, you instinctively reduce your movements in order to avoid brushing up against the tent to further soak yourself or your gear. This “Night Freeze” can impair your comfort and reduce your ability to get a good sleep.
No shelter is perfect and the Lunar Solo is no exception. Condensation is still a factor one has to deal with from time to time. While we can’t eliminate it, we do hope to provide improved mechanisms to better cope with it.
Ron Moak
Six Moon Designs
tlbj6142
11-12-2004, 14:39
Another problem I wanted to minimize is something I generally refer to as “Night Freeze”. That’s a condition where you wake up in the middle of the night to reposition yourself to get comfortable. In the process your hand touches the sidewall of your tent and gets wet from condensation. From then on, you instinctively reduce your movements in order to avoid brushing up against the tent to further soak yourself or your gear. This “Night Freeze” can impair your comfort and reduce your ability to get a good sleep.I love that term. While I haven't had "Night Freeze" from tent/tarp walls, it has happend to me due to other issues. I've never really thought of it as a "cause" for restless sleep, but lookin' back it probably was a factor. But I never "put it to words".
Nice to see at least one cause of "Night Freeze" has been eliminated.
I just received my Lunar Solo in the mail today. I had enough time before it got dark to set it up and it is very sweet. I can't seem to get the side walls to stand up as taut as the picture tho, the mesh isn't standing up as much as the picture shows. It took me all of about 5 minutes to set it up the first time. I'll have more time to play with it tomorrow night. It got here just in time for an overnighter I'm doing this weekend. With all that mesh, if you keep the vestibule open, I don't see how condensation would be a big problem. I'll let y'all know more after this weekend.
Someone earlier posted that there would be enough room for two to sit up and play cards in it. I don't think so, not without heads hitting the top. I can sit up in it fine with plenty of head clearance at the very highest point, but not two people. This tent, with my stakes, weighs in at a whopping two pounds (I got the heavier floor) and packs small enough to fit inside my pack. SWEET!!! The vestibule looks large enough to keep my external pack under too.
illininagel
11-12-2004, 20:51
It got here just in time for an overnighter I'm doing this weekend.
Lilredmg,
After your weekend trip, would you please post an update about what you think about the tent?
Thanks!
Lilredmg,
After your weekend trip, would you please post an update about what you think about the tent?
Thanks!
Will do....
Spent last night in the Lunar, my first night in the tent. Some random thoughts:
One, it was a great evening for camping, with lows about 40F, slight breeze and no whiff of rain.
This tent is very easy to set up. I like the use of a 2nd hiking pole for the rear of the tent, which seems to provide both a bit of room in the back as well as more stability. As I noted, it was not windy, but the shape of the tent held up very well over the course of the day and night.
The tent wall and floor use separate stretch cord that merge at each tent stake. This is what creates the separation of the overhang for the vented sides. I didn't get to it, but I think a bit of adjustment of the cords will give the tent even more rigidity. Easy to do, and I will test this theory out next trip.
The front opening on this tent is great, at least when it is dry. I had the vestibule pulled back, and the front wall of netting coupled with all of the side venting allows for great air circulation. Getting out of this tent is very easy, much more so than the original Europa. This is largely due to the size of the door and the fact that the pole is not in the middle of the exit.
One of the most appealing aspects of this tent for me is the fact that I can sit up and stretch without banging into the walls. Getting out for a quick pee at 3AM is really easy in this tent. It also had plenty of room for all of my gear inside the tent.
I cannot yet comment on how it performs in storms or hard rains. I can say that when I woke up this morning there was not a lick of condensation on the walls, so when it is dry and you don't have to deploy the vestibule this tent breathes really well. And visibility is top notch - had a fantastic view of the lake I was camping at this morning, and didn't even have to lift my head to see it.
And when I was packing up it occured to me how nice it is to not have any tent poles to worry about.
So far I am really impressed. I'll post more as I get more experience with this tent.
Spent last night in the Lunar, my first night in the tent. Some random thoughts:
One, it was a great evening for camping, with lows about 40F, slight breeze and no whiff of rain.
This tent is very easy to set up. I like the use of a 2nd hiking pole for the rear of the tent, which seems to provide both a bit of room in the back as well as more stability. As I noted, it was not windy, but the shape of the tent held up very well over the course of the day and night.
The tent wall and floor use separate stretch cord that merge at each tent stake. This is what creates the separation of the overhang for the vented sides. I didn't get to it, but I think a bit of adjustment of the cords will give the tent even more rigidity. Easy to do, and I will test this theory out next trip.
The front opening on this tent is great, at least when it is dry. I had the vestibule pulled back, and the front wall of netting coupled with all of the side venting allows for great air circulation. Getting out of this tent is very easy, much more so than the original Europa. This is largely due to the size of the door and the fact that the pole is not in the middle of the exit.
One of the most appealing aspects of this tent for me is the fact that I can sit up and stretch without banging into the walls. Getting out for a quick pee at 3AM is really easy in this tent. It also had plenty of room for all of my gear inside the tent.
I cannot yet comment on how it performs in storms or hard rains. I can say that when I woke up this morning there was not a lick of condensation on the walls, so when it is dry and you don't have to deploy the vestibule this tent breathes really well. And visibility is top notch - had a fantastic view of the lake I was camping at this morning, and didn't even have to lift my head to see it.
And when I was packing up it occured to me how nice it is to not have any tent poles to worry about.
So far I am really impressed. I'll post more as I get more experience with this tent.
I had a bit of a different experience with this tent. Spent last night in it at Big South Fork NP in Tn. I agree with the ease of set up. I had mine all set up and ready to go while everyone else was still messing with their tent poles and flies.
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get it as taut as the picture on the webpage shows. I fiddled with it for some time but had the mesh in the back of the tent and the roof sagging quite a bit when I went to bed. There are a couple of loops for guylines on the sides so I employed those and it sufficed for the evening. Our temperatures went down below freezing last night so I had to deploy the vestibule for the added warmth. Even with the vestibule closed, I could still watch our campfire as I lay in the tent, nice. One concern I have with the vestibule is how it attaches to the tent. It attaches with velcro, which was a tad difficult to do from the inside of the tent, and I worry about water leaking through the opening during a rainstorm.
I had quite a bit of condensation on the inside, however, I did not at any time hit the sides or roof as I tossed and turned all night. When I got up the next morning and dressed, I hit the roof a few times and ended up being rained on a little bit, nothing to cause any distress over, although my sleeping bag got quite wet as I left it in there while I went for water. Had I packed it up right away, it wouldn't have been a problem.
I also agree about the ease of getting into and out of this tent. Not a problem at all. Getting up and stretching without hitting the walls, for me, would not have been possible, again due to the fact I couldn't get it as taut as it could be. I am only 5'1" and I don't see how a person near 6' could fit well in this tent.
I think most of the problems I had with this tent last night was due to user error. I need to work on making it more taut. I bet I lost 3 to 4 inches of headroom because of it.
On the whole, I think this would make a great summer tent, when condensation is not a big problem. I plan on setting it up this week when rain is forcast and I'll post again about how it handles wet weather.
illininagel
11-14-2004, 23:27
I am only 5'1" and I don't see how a person near 6' could fit well in this tent.
It's not sounding very promising for me given that I am 6"3"!
I'm 6-feet even, for what it is worth. I don't think the extra 3 inches would cause you problems, but there is less room in this tent than I have in my Europa.
Once I had my footprint set up, I went back and re-set each tent stake since I was still learning how to best set it up. This helped significantly.
It's not sounding very promising for me given that I am 6"3"!I've ordered a Squall tarptent and will give you a height report (I'm 6'5")
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get it as taut as the picture on the webpage shows. DO you use a tautline hitch on the guy lines to pull them taut after staking down the tent? You can also use those little bent pieces of metal with two holes to the same effect, but even tiny pieces of metal weight something, and a knot adds no weight to your pack :)
tlbj6142
11-15-2004, 10:35
DO you use a tautline hitch on the guy lines to pull them taut after staking down the tent? You can also use those little bent pieces of metal with two holes to the same effect, but even tiny pieces of metal weight something, and a knot adds no weight to your pack :)Not all guylines can hold a taunt line hitch. Most can, but the very slippery spectra and kevlar like cords cannot.
tlbj6142
11-15-2004, 10:54
BTW, Chris just reported in his mini write-up (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6411)on the Lunar that it is not suitable for those over 6' tall.
stickat04
11-16-2004, 12:30
I am 5'9 I used the Lunar last night and every time the wind blew the tarp would touch my head. I will be able to mess around with it more this weekend to find out hopfully what I am doing wrong. It was easy to setup and I restaked it three times but I still couldnt get the tarp to stop hitting my head.
Stick
I am 5'9 I used the Lunar last night and every time the wind blew the tarp would touch my head. I will be able to mess around with it more this weekend to find out hopfully what I am doing wrong. It was easy to setup and I restaked it three times but I still couldnt get the tarp to stop hitting my head.
Stick
I have since been playing with the tautness and have found that my front pole and rear pole were not high enough. Ron recommends a front pole height of 44-45 inches. I put mine between 45 and 46 inches and that has helped tremondously. Also, the back pole needs to be higher than I originally thought too. The higher it is, the more taut the back webbing is. I still have a slight sag in the webbing in the back wall of the tent, but not nearly as bad as it was. My headroom has greatly improved.
I have also found an easier way to close the vestibule with the velcro. Instead of trying to close it while I was in the tent, I close it while I'm outside of the tent, then raise the beak up the cord. Once under the vestibule, I can then lower the beak down the cord and attach it to the clasp. I'll let y'all know how the closure holds up to rain.
snarbles
05-04-2005, 01:21
Anyone get a chance to try out the new Lunar Solo E? Looks promising. I'm 6ft tall though so I'm hoping it would be large enough. I like you guys are debating between the Lunar or the Virga. I'm not very happy with my Trig 2.
trailfinder
05-04-2005, 12:11
I've asked almost the identical question before, but I want to try it again. I have narrowed my shelter choice to a Shires tarptent (WITH extended beak, sewn-in floor, and bug netting) or the new SixMoonDesigns Lunar Solo.
Both companies now have their products on sale until the end of November, so I want to make the final choice as soon as possible. The money isn't that big of a deal, but still $50 is $50.
Please tell me if I'm missing anything. First, both shelters are roughly the same weight, both are from very reputable companies, both have options of bug netting and a floor, and both allow the user to forego carrying a tent pole by using a hiking pole in lieu thereof. Neither is free standing.
The tarptent (Squall) has substantially more space than the Solo and it is a known quantity given that many have experience with it. But the tarptent does seem to have a bit of a problem with condensation. Also, the tarptent doesn't seem to have a way of totally blocking out blowing rain.
The Solo is a new product with no track record. But the company has a good reputation and I trust that they wouldn't release a crappy, poorly designed product. It comes with the option of a heavier floor, and it seems that it would be able to keep a user dry in blowing rain because it can be "enclosed" (I don't know the proper terminology).
I like the extra space of the tarptent, but I don't particularly like its seeming problem with condensation and blowing rain. I like the Solo because the vestibule can be enclosed, thus presumably keeping the user dry in blowing rain.
So between the two, is it a case of both being relatively equal? Flip a coin?
Sorry for posting this topic again, and I'm probably making a big deal over nothing. That said, any final advice/thoughts would be appreciated. And I swear that I'll shut up about this topic.
Thanks.You may want to consider an ultralight double wall tent, e.g. LLBean makes a great solo tent that weights a little over 3 lbs. I've spoken with people using the tarpent and condensation is a problem.