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Bruce Hudson
07-19-2010, 19:31
Sunday after I was finishing a 50 mile section coming into Parisburg, VA when a young fawn darted across the trail. I momentarily chuckled to myself thinking this guy won't live long heading straight for the humans thinking I had spooked him from his hiding place. But maybe 15 to 20 yards back came what I have to believe was a gray wolf. This guy had a massive head and shoulders. The fawn never altered course running right past me. The would-be wolf hesitated slightly, slowed slightly for maybe two strides and altered course away from me by at most 15 degrees and kept after the fawn.

So what are the chances-- possible gray wolf in VA above I-81??

Bruce

pixel
07-19-2010, 20:01
i can't answer that ... but once some friends and i went camping at natural chimneys in Viriginia. the next day we drove this LONG winding dirt road to a place called Reddish Knob. i was the only one who saw it, but a lynx leaped onto and across the road. it was awesome! i never even knew they were in that area. i hope you did see a gray wolf and someone can confirm the reality that they exist there. ha,ha,ha... for me ... no one else saw it, so they all just kind of politely say, "cool!" although i think they question whether or not i REALLY saw what i think i saw. :D

Lone Wolf
07-19-2010, 20:34
Sunday after I was finishing a 50 mile section coming into Parisburg, VA when a young fawn darted across the trail. I momentarily chuckled to myself thinking this guy won't live long heading straight for the humans thinking I had spooked him from his hiding place. But maybe 15 to 20 yards back came what I have to believe was a gray wolf. This guy had a massive head and shoulders. The fawn never altered course running right past me. The would-be wolf hesitated slightly, slowed slightly for maybe two strides and altered course away from me by at most 15 degrees and kept after the fawn.

So what are the chances-- possible gray wolf in VA above I-81??

Bruce

extremely unlikely

Tinker
07-19-2010, 20:39
I've seen coyote in my state in the neighborhood of 75 lbs. Could it have been a large coyote?

Bruce Hudson
07-19-2010, 20:45
That clearly makes move sense. I've of course never seen a coyote in the wild, but I definitely think of them as smaller and somehow less healthy. This guy was massive about the head and chest and clearly healthy and strong. Oh well, it was a great sight regardless.

Sierra Echo
07-19-2010, 20:47
I was hiking at Amicalola State Park a few weeks ago when I saw what I believed to be an ostrich in the woods. I happened to mention it to the manager of the Len Foote Hike Inn and he told me that there is a man in the area who owns an ostrich farm and sometimes they get out. LOL I thought I was getting even crazier!

Danielsen
07-19-2010, 23:49
Eastern Coyotes have recently been discovered to be hybridized between smaller pure-coyote ancestors and the gray wolf. With the wolf's ecological niche vacated, they've been growing larger and more wolf-like in their feeding habits and pack dynamics. What you saw was probably a big eastern coyote, as they are known to take even adult deer and I imagine Virginia's wilderness is probably good habitat for them.

gumball
07-20-2010, 05:18
Eastern Coyotes have recently been discovered to be hybridized between smaller pure-coyote ancestors and the gray wolf. With the wolf's ecological niche vacated, they've been growing larger and more wolf-like in their feeding habits and pack dynamics. What you saw was probably a big eastern coyote, as they are known to take even adult deer and I imagine Virginia's wilderness is probably good habitat for them.

Indeed--the "coywolf", I believe they call it.

Marta
07-20-2010, 06:45
I believe there are also "coydogs." What you saw might have been one of those, with the dog part being a large breed.

TOW
07-20-2010, 07:40
Sunday after I was finishing a 50 mile section coming into Parisburg, VA when a young fawn darted across the trail. I momentarily chuckled to myself thinking this guy won't live long heading straight for the humans thinking I had spooked him from his hiding place. But maybe 15 to 20 yards back came what I have to believe was a gray wolf. This guy had a massive head and shoulders. The fawn never altered course running right past me. The would-be wolf hesitated slightly, slowed slightly for maybe two strides and altered course away from me by at most 15 degrees and kept after the fawn.

So what are the chances-- possible gray wolf in VA above I-81??

Bruce
i doubt it, maybe a husky turned out into the wild or a malamute.............

Adayak
07-20-2010, 13:03
Maybe you saw one of those chupacabras they recently killed out in Texas ? :-)

Spogatz
07-20-2010, 14:59
I was hiking at Amicalola State Park a few weeks ago when I saw what I believed to be an ostrich in the woods. I happened to mention it to the manager of the Len Foote Hike Inn and he told me that there is a man in the area who owns an ostrich farm and sometimes they get out. LOL I thought I was getting even crazier!

That was no ostrich....it was a really big quail......lol:banana

cwinkle
07-20-2010, 15:59
I remember reading about some gray wolf escapes from a zoo on Bays Mountain in Tennessee during the heavy snowfall in March. Maybe one of them has made its way up into VA.

Many Walks
07-20-2010, 19:19
Not sure what was doing the chasing, but the fawn was probably hoping it would peel off and eat you instead.

Country Roads
07-20-2010, 20:16
My brother shot a coyote a while back (yes, it was legal). It was probably 20 pounds heavier than a western coyote, I was mostly tannish color, but it did have a lot of gray on its body too. I have heard coyotes many times in our local wilderness areas and in the rural area I live in. It is kinda neat to hear the "call of the wild". It does make you remember that you are not at the top of the food chain.

Grampie
07-21-2010, 10:20
There is an article in the Aug. 2010 issue of National Geographic titled, New Beasts in the East.
It explains how coyotes and wolves have cross mated and produced coywolves. These hybrids are found through the east as far south as Virginia.

Grampie
07-22-2010, 08:34
There is an article in the Aug. 2010 issue of National Geographic titled, New Beasts in the East.
It explains how coyotes and wolves have cross mated and produced coywolves. These hybrids are found through the east as far south as Virginia.

Another article in July-Aug issue of AT Journeys.

Knocky
07-22-2010, 14:04
probably not a gray wolf, but there have been some red wolves re introduced into parts of NC and other areas in the East.
Best bet is that what you saw though, was a large Coyote.

Tin Man
07-22-2010, 20:34
I believe there are also "coydogs." What you saw might have been one of those, with the dog part being a large breed.

Coydogs are quite common in the woods in CT. I have heard them along the AT in NY, CT, MA and behind my house on a regular basis. Most know better than to cry wolf.

kizzybean
07-22-2010, 21:56
There isn't really a coyote / dog cross called a coydog. It is an Eastern coyote. With recent genetic testing the Eastern Coyote is actually a cross between a Eastern wolf and coyote. They are larger in size and bone than what you are visualizing as a coyote. With a variety of coat patterns and larger size people mistakenly think it's a dog cross. The AT magazine has a very good article about them. Consider yourself lucky to have seen one on the trail. You're more likely to see one in a suburan area where there is a lot of small game to feed on & non-hunting areas. They are extremely adaptable to their environment. The size of their litters (# of pups) they have directly corresponds with the food supply for their area. Although they can be a problem for farmers and neighborhood pets they are an extremely interesting animal that have adapted to urban sprawl and depleted woodlands.

left turn
07-25-2010, 07:41
My brother shot a coyote a while back (yes, it was legal). It was probably 20 pounds heavier than a western coyote, I was mostly tannish color, but it did have a lot of gray on its body too. I have heard coyotes many times in our local wilderness areas and in the rural area I live in. It is kinda neat to hear the "call of the wild". It does make you remember that you are not at the top of the food chain.

i agree it was a coyote but with out pics it's had to say. my dad is a huge coyote hunter, we actually have a problem with them where i live and hunting them is strongly encouraged. they are becoming a huge problem for farmers and have started working on the deer populations

i have seen a lot of coyotes, the eastern coyotes are usually 20+ pounds bigger then western coyotes and they are usually tan in color as mentioned above. my dad says the eastern ones are so much bigger because they have been mating with domesticated dogs. my dad killed one this spring that was right at 82LBS. we have pictures i'll try to scan them and post them my dad doesn't use a digital camera. they get pretty close to people around here, i had one right in my back yard and my dads friend had one in his yard that almost killed two of his dogs. we hear them at night all the time and one thing i have noticed is they have been hunting in a pack which is a really haunting thing to hear at night. the hunters around here say that's when you really need to be worried about coyotes, because they really lose their fear of people when they are in a pack. i in the works of putting up motioned detected camera on the farm behind my house to catch some pics of these guys, should be fun. i'd rather take pictures of them than hunt them:)

mudhead
07-25-2010, 09:42
http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9024/16859916/Womans_dog_mistaken_for_coyote_set_loose_in_wild

Pound couldn't even tell. I have seen a number of good sized coyotes that at first look like a German Shepard. But they had a bushy tail. Different demeanor, too.

Newb
07-27-2010, 13:50
I saw a coyote in Shenadoah park that was so big I thought I was hallucinating. It was huge for it's species. Coyotes can vary widely in size, especially if their genetics are muddied with hybridization.

TIDE-HSV
07-27-2010, 20:25
There is an article in the Aug. 2010 issue of National Geographic titled, New Beasts in the East.
It explains how coyotes and wolves have cross mated and produced coywolves. These hybrids are found through the east as far south as Virginia.

I'm looking at the August paper issue. The article is not in it...

Daydream Believer
08-10-2010, 21:19
I was reading this trail journal of a thru hiker and saw her reference to seeing a Gray Wolf/Coyote in Virginia north of the Grayson Highlands area.

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=311862

I thought of this thread and thought I'd share the info. This sighting was in early May.

Wise Old Owl
08-10-2010, 21:24
Eastern Coyotes have recently been discovered to be hybridized between smaller pure-coyote ancestors and the gray wolf. With the wolf's ecological niche vacated, they've been growing larger and more wolf-like in their feeding habits and pack dynamics. What you saw was probably a big eastern coyote, as they are known to take even adult deer and I imagine Virginia's wilderness is probably good habitat for them.


OK Can I ask your source of information, You have my attention! I have never read that and would like to read more....

Thanks!

Danielsen
08-11-2010, 00:43
Mostly an amalgam of stuff I've been reading for years, but the July(?) national geographic issue had a short piece on it near the front of the magazine (not a major feature, and not on the web issue sadly).

Here's a good resource I was able to find, though I wasn't successful in trying to dig up the original genetic study through a quick google search: http://www.projectcoyote.org/newsreleases/news_eastern.html

CatchUp
08-11-2010, 09:43
I was hiking at Amicalola State Park a few weeks ago when I saw what I believed to be an ostrich in the woods. I happened to mention it to the manager of the Len Foote Hike Inn and he told me that there is a man in the area who owns an ostrich farm and sometimes they get out. LOL I thought I was getting even crazier!

OMG that is HILARIOUS...I would be seriously questioning my sanity too. I think they are more dangerous than bears.:p

Hiker8261
08-11-2010, 11:24
There was a Grey Wolf killed several years ago in Western MA. A farmer shot it when he saw it eating a sheep.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/05/after_160_years_a_wild_gray_wolf_turns_up_in_mass/

In the article it mentions needing more habitat set aside to allow for recovery of the species. I have heard for years that this is why game officials do not want to acknowledge the return of wolves and mountain lions in New England. Much of the State Forests and Parks would be put off limits to hunting and recreation. It only takes one successful lawsuit by one group to kick the public off the land.

chris

hikerinnc
08-11-2010, 11:44
I too cannot find the national geographic article online as well. Anyone have a link? I would really appreciate it!

mister krabs
08-11-2010, 14:13
I too cannot find the national geographic article online as well. Anyone have a link? I would really appreciate it!

unfortunately it's in the "Departments" section which is not available online.

http://press.nationalgeographic.com/pressroom/pressReleaseFiles/1279036403124/1279036403127/ngm_2010_08_highlights.pdf

bronconite
08-11-2010, 14:24
OK Can I ask your source of information, You have my attention! I have never read that and would like to read more....

Thanks!

Attached is an article found on the PGC site about Coyotes in PA. It mentions what your looking for, but not the source.

bronconite
08-11-2010, 14:37
more articles http://www.wildlifetech.com/pages/necoyote.htm

http://www.projectcoyote.org/newsreleases/news_eastern.html

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/press/2009/coauthors.cfm

Daydream Believer
08-11-2010, 14:41
OMG that is HILARIOUS...I would be seriously questioning my sanity too. I think they are more dangerous than bears.:p

I remember one instance of a friend trail riding her horse in the woods in Georgia and being chased by an Emu.:eek: It's moments like that when you are sure you are dreaming or crazy! Turns out the Emu was an escapee from someone's farm. She and her horse were Ok but quite shaken by the attack.

CatchUp
08-11-2010, 14:45
I remember one instance of a friend trail riding her horse in the woods in Georgia and being chased by an Emu.:eek: It's moments like that when you are sure you are dreaming or crazy! Turns out the Emu was an escapee from someone's farm. She and her horse were Ok but quite shaken by the attack.

I think I would crap my pants if I saw a giant bird chasing me in the forest. They are MEAN.

Danielsen
08-11-2010, 21:05
There was a Grey Wolf killed several years ago in Western MA. A farmer shot it when he saw it eating a sheep.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/05/after_160_years_a_wild_gray_wolf_turns_up_in_mass/

In the article it mentions needing more habitat set aside to allow for recovery of the species. I have heard for years that this is why game officials do not want to acknowledge the return of wolves and mountain lions in New England. Much of the State Forests and Parks would be put off limits to hunting and recreation. It only takes one successful lawsuit by one group to kick the public off the land.

chris

Hunting I can sort of understand, but general recreation?! I feel like that's just abhorrent to the human spirit as a whole. Not to mention with society's current disconnection with the outdoors... the more restriction of public access to our wild areas (except perhaps offroading... I understand there are many responsible offroaders but until they can get the rest of them to stop making such a mess of everything, I feel internal combustion engines have no place on the trail) the worse.

Danielsen
08-11-2010, 21:14
I think I would crap my pants if I saw a giant bird chasing me in the forest. They are MEAN.

Just hope it's not a cassowary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA58sS3x2Oo&feature=related