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VWBUB67
11-14-2002, 19:53
ANY CAMP SITES BETWEEN PETERS RUN SHELTER AND RAUSCH GAP SHELTER IN PA.? NOT SURE I CAN MAKE THE 17.8 MILES IN ONE DAY. THANKS.

Youngblood
11-15-2002, 15:01
There weren't any in 2000.

slabfoot
11-19-2002, 20:43
many suitable dry camps on top stoney and sharp mts. starting about 10 mi. east of peters mt. shelter. pa state game lands permit camping along the corridor but must camp a specified distance from springs and creeks. not sure but i think it is a couple hundred feet. most springs are good but a couple show the orange stain indicating mine drainage. also rausch run has high mine acid level. i dont know if that will hurt you but i fill up elsewhere. lately the spring has been dry at rausch gap shelter, but much rain has fallen here this last two weeks so i'm sure spring is at it again. side trips to the bottom of the valley will reward the quiet hiker with encounters with deer, turkey, grouse, fox and black bear. also a very loud owl. the creek has a wild population of brook trout also though it has been having a difficult time competeing with the larger stocked trout. not sure when you're doing this section but in summer saw the biggest rattler i've ever seen on the trail where it follows the cinder rail bed. not sure if this is what you were looking for, but you will find a few nice flat spots with fire rings and many spots suitable for a stealth/notrace type camp. rifle season for deer runs dec. 2 thru dec 14, wear orange and stay on the trail! :eek:

veteran
01-13-2003, 09:47
Anybody have a list of stealth campsite locations
in the White Mountains?

Lone Wolf
01-13-2003, 09:52
I don't have an actual printed list but if I were with you I could show you some prime stealth spots. My favorite is within 300 yards of Lakes of the Crowds.

Ann
01-13-2003, 11:29
Veteran...I can suggest some options in the Whites...that would be considered legal...they certainly are not prime and certainly not stealth, but camping in the Whites can be kind of tough considering the terrain and the strict regs.

As an alternative to Liberty Springs:
Pick up water at Liberty Springs, head up to jct. with Franconia Ridge Trail and Liberty Springs Trail go towards Mt. Liberty (head south) you will be outside the FPA, go towards the west side of the trail and there are some hardened spots.

As an alternative to Galehead AMC hut:
Pick up water at hut..head up the Frost Trail to Mt. Galehead at the wooded summit you will see herd paths that lead to some hardened sites.

As an alternative to AMC Mizpah or Nauman Tentsite, head down
MT. Clinton trail... outside the FPA you should be able to find some possibilities.

As an alternative to Carter Notch Hut:
Head down the Wildcat River Trail. Just past the FPA are some possibilities. Water is available nearby.

I wish I could give you some better suggestions but these are just some close-by alternatives that are not too far from water and could be used as some replacements to the AMC spots. I don't know how far anyone is willing to travel for a decent spot and hate to see anyone lose any significant elevation gain.

It's a very tough stretch between Mt. Clinton and Mt. Madison...the only suggestion I can give you there is that it would be easier to travel with a hammock there, it would provide you with more camping options and you'd lose less elevation gain when trying to find a spot because you cannot camp above treeline, you'll have to dip down to camp. The terrain makes it hard to find a spot that is legal. If you are traveling with a tent you'll be able to find some spots but you'll lose some serious elevation gain in order to get a decent spot.

Hope this helps.

Wander Yonder
01-13-2003, 11:51
Ann, I read that it is legal to camp anywhere in the Whites if you hammock camp. Is that true?

Ann
01-13-2003, 13:38
Sharon...
The answer to that is NO. There are some very strict rules about camping in the White Mountain National Forest. There are quite a few restrictions...I don't know where you read that info but this is a link to the camping rules in the Whites:


http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/white/recreation/land_above/backcountry_rules.html

BTW, this link only give the "short" version of the rules...there are even more but this is all the usfs provides online.

If you do attempt to camp illegally make sure you are not in view because if you are spotted/caught you could be fined. (Not that I am advocating you camp illegally but can understand how you might be put in that position when traveling through the Whites.)

Wander Yonder
01-13-2003, 13:54
Thanks, Ann. Wow, there ARE a lot of regulations!

I had read that on a Boy Scout leader's hammock camping site somewhere on the net. From what I have read on hiking forums, I didn't think it was true, but thought I would ask.

As for rules, I obey them unless they endanger me (like telling me I have to stay somewhere where my instincts scream DANGER!) or where I am too exhausted to get to where I am supposed to be. ;)

Ann
01-13-2003, 13:58
I have been flamed (not on this board but on another) for saying this BUT I would absolutely put personal safety above ANY regulation...no question about it.

Lone Wolf
01-13-2003, 14:04
You ain't gonna get flamed here Ann. Some rules are made to be broken. I NEVER pay to camp in the Whites. I always stealh camp. What's good enough for a moose is good enough for a wolf.

Ann
01-13-2003, 14:25
Thanks Lone Wolf...

I have to say, IMHO, the people on this site, in general, have a much more realistic view of the world than another site which shall remain unnamed, (but you know the one I mean)!!

Blue Jay
01-13-2003, 14:38
Yes, stealth camping the Whites is a wonderful tradition. I doubt anyone would get flamed for approving that. You might get flamed for a pro AMC stand, however. The whole system there is rediculous. If they really wanted to preserve the Whites, which is why they claim to have the regulations, they would Tear Down the Huts. The regulations are purely to limit the use for us Dirt Baggers, and to increase the use for people they can suck money from.

Ann
01-13-2003, 15:09
The whole system there is rediculous

Blue Jay...I fully agree with you.

prozac
01-13-2003, 15:45
Does anyone know what the General is? A couple years ago while hiking in the Rausch Gap area there was a blue blaze trail with a sign for "The General". Normally I couldn't have missed something that intriquing, but it was getting late and raining so I pushed on. Slabfoot, you seem pretty familiar with this section, any idea?

Peaks
01-13-2003, 17:16
I might add to Ann's post,

near Galehead, there is the site used by the folks during the building of the replacement hut. It's just south of Galehead.

There are numerous stealth sites around Zealand.

Near Carter Notch, there are sites used that are not so stealth near the intersection of the AT and the 19 mile brook trail.

Why the regulations? Because of the heavy use. It's one way to control it.

slabfoot
01-13-2003, 18:19
...is an old rusting steam shovel(actually early deisel) that was abondonned at the end of a coal dig nestled up in the false valley just a short ways off the trail south of rausch gap. on the back of the cab on the large iron counterweight is the (i presume) manufacturers name "GENERAL".

REGARDS

BILL

VWBUB67
01-15-2003, 13:40
SLABFOOT

THANKS FOR THE GOOD INFO. AFTER GETTING THE PA GUIDE, I DID READ THAT ONE COULD CAMP ON PA GAME LANDS IF YOU ABIDE BY THEIR RULES. THIS HELPS WITH MY PLANNING.

VWBUG67

Aubrey
03-02-2003, 03:25
Slabfoot, you're right. I've hiked out to the General a couple of times - neat little area. Still signs of the old strip mining, lumbering operations that ravaged the ridge. (happily, the ridge is MUCH nicer these days.)

And there is indeed a plate that reads, "GENERAL". The amazing thing about the old clunker is the shape its in after all these years...

Jack Tarlin
03-03-2003, 18:28
Stealth camping, by definition, means spending the night where you're not supposed to, and frequently means that you're choosing to disobey posted regulations and even break the law.

There are many good sites in the Whites and elsewhere that are no longer viable for stealthing because their locations have been publicly posted and discussed, which has led to these sites being patrolled by Rangers, AMC Ridgerunners, etc.

If anyone out there wants to share their knowledge of stealth sites, well this is all well and good, but can we please do this THRU PRIVATE CORRESPONDENCE?

Publicly posting the exact wherabouts of specific unofficial or illegal sites is a really good way to get these sites posted, patrolled, or demolished.

Let's share our knowledge and resources folks, but let's do it in an intelligent manner. If you wanna keep your favorite stealth sites alive and well, then share the knowledge of their existence and wherabouts in a discreet, sensible fashion. Otherwise, these spots won't be there anymore when YOU need them, nor will you advice and suggestions be of any use to anyone else, either.

Peaks
03-03-2003, 19:26
I'm sure there are numerous sites in the Whites that are truely stealth. But, as you walk along, you will see many unoffical campsites very close to the trail.

For what it's worth, the Backcountry camping rules for the White Mountain National Forest say no camping, wood or charcoal fires within 1/4 mile of any hut, shelter, tent platform, cabin, picnic area or campground except at designated sites and any trail head as well as a few special areas.

The list goes on, but I don't see anywhere that prohibits you from camping right on the trail north of Mt. Moosiauke, provided you are more than 1/4 mile away from road, huts, etc.

rickb
03-03-2003, 19:37
Just out of curiosity, how many people have actually seen a ranger in the Whites?

How about a ridgerunner?

Not suggesting that they are not out there; they are. Just curious how many have seen one. And what everyone's WMNF ranger to moose ratio is. Mine is very small. And I don't see many moose in the Whites.

Rick B
(Who will never buy a yellow tent, even though most all of his so-called stealth sites are really legal, even if others don't always agree)

rickb
03-03-2003, 19:44
Peaks--

You be right, with a couple exceptions.

You can't camp within 200 feet of a trail in a wilderness area in the WMNF. In some places, that may mean you have to pitch your tent on one side of the trail rather than the other. I am thinking of where the AT skirts a Wilderness Area between Zealand Falls and Ethan Pond. I also think that may be the case as you approach Pinkham Notch after decending past Osgood Tent site.

Also, if I am not mistaken, you have to camp at designated sites in the north of Route 2. And, of course, you cant camp where the trees are less than 8 feet tall in the summer time.

Rick B

Presto
03-04-2003, 11:09
jack-

I thought that stealth camping was the concept of leaving the least possible impact to the area that you camp on. I think the term has gotten negative connotations because camping is illegal many places if you are not at a designated campsite. I certainly wouldn't admit to stealth camping if it really meant illegal camping.

RagingHampster
03-04-2003, 11:50
So what is a thru-hiker supposed to do?

I've heard the AMC Huts are booked in advance and $70+ a night.

What is the fine for being caught stealth camping off-trail illegally? Probably something ridiculus, but If it's only $50 or something, it may be worth going billy-the-kid style and be a rebel.

TJ aka Teej
03-04-2003, 11:52
Originally posted by Presto
I thought that stealth camping was the concept of leaving the least possible impact to the area that you camp on.
As you can see, there are two meanings.
For me, stealth camping always meant no one knew I was there, and know one knew I had been there when I left.
But times, and words, change...

Peaks
03-05-2003, 08:45
Originally posted by rickboudrie
Peaks--

You be right, with a couple exceptions.

You can't camp within 200 feet of a trail in a wilderness area in the WMNF. In some places, that may mean you have to pitch your tent on one side of the trail rather than the other. I am thinking of where the AT skirts a Wilderness Area between Zealand Falls and Ethan Pond. I also think that may be the case as you approach Pinkham Notch after decending past Osgood Tent site.

Also, if I am not mistaken, you have to camp at designated sites in the north of Route 2. And, of course, you cant camp where the trees are less than 8 feet tall in the summer time.

Rick B

Rick,

Yes, there are additional regulations. I only quoted part of them.

There are additional restrictions in the wilderness areas. However, the basic rule here is no camping within 200 feet of certain trails or bodies of water. So, in places where the AT is the boarder of a wilderness area, you can camp right on one side of the trail, and need to be 200 feet off the trail on the other side. Sounds complecated. Look at the AMC or White Mountain National Forest Maps to find out. Or ask a ranger or AMC what the details are.

And, no camping in the Alpine zone, unless there is 2 feet of snow cover.

I think that north of Route 2 you are on private property, probably paper company, and not on National Forest Land. So, the land owner agreement may have different requirements.

Has anyone ever seen a ranger? Yes I have. I tented a too close to a stream one night, It was late, and I agreed to move first thing in the morning, which we did.

Peaks
03-05-2003, 08:51
Originally posted by RagingHampster
So what is a thru-hiker supposed to do?

A thru-hiker is supposed to be familiar with the restrictions. And should talk with someone like Jonathon at Hikers Welcome in Glencliff about alternative places to camp. They are more numerous than it seems.

I've heard the AMC Huts are booked in advance and $70+ a night.

They are, especially on the weekends. But there is also work for stay. And if you ask, most hut people can direct you to a nearby stealth site.

What is the fine for being caught stealth camping off-trail illegally? Probably something ridiculus, but If it's only $50 or something, it may be worth going billy-the-kid style and be a rebel.

You should not be fined unless you do something stupid, like camp under a sign that says "no camping." or make a big mess.

Jack Tarlin
03-05-2003, 16:16
Actually, people have received tickets and fines for up to $200.00 for camping illegally in the White Mountains.

Whether or not these fines were paid is another matter.

There are several good ways to avoid this:

1. Don't camp illegally.

2. If you do, do it sensibly, i.e. make sure you're far enough away from trails, shelters, huts, or anywhere else you're likely to be discovered. Avoid stealthing in large groups that are likely to be noisier and more noticeable.

3. Avoid camping in sites that are so well established that they are likely to be known to rangers, patrollers, etc.

4. Be discreet in telling other folks about these sites, as this is a sure way to get them patrolled or posted, greatly increasing the likelihood of discovery and ticketing.

hikerdude
10-25-2004, 07:20
Actually, people have received tickets and fines for up to $200.00 for camping illegally in the White Mountains.

Whether or not these fines were paid is another matter.

There are several good ways to avoid this:

1. Don't camp illegally.

2. If you do, do it sensibly, i.e. make sure you're far enough away from trails, shelters, huts, or anywhere else you're likely to be discovered. Avoid stealthing in large groups that are likely to be noisier and more noticeable.

3. Avoid camping in sites that are so well established that they are likely to be known to rangers, patrollers, etc.

4. Be discreet in telling other folks about these sites, as this is a sure way to get them patrolled or posted, greatly increasing the likelihood of discovery and ticketing.
That's the way I go Jack. Things are the way they are for real. Almost every hiker in the whites is a dayhiker also be noted.