View Full Version : sleeping pad ideas
Hi all! I am a long time reader but this is my first post. I was looking for opinions about sleeping pads. I used to only plan trips in summer so insulation was never an issue. With the purchase of a new sleeping bag, I am now able to plan trips for the colder months and I figured that I would need some insulation from the cold ground. Comfort is not as big of an issue as weight is, but I wouldn't mind having something that is both. So my question is what people could recommend that is first lightweight, and second comfortable?
Llama Legs
07-29-2010, 14:27
You're only 20 years old...get a closed cell foam pad. Light, cheap, and indestructible. Now when you're about to turn 50 like me, ask again...
I like the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad, both light and comfortable. If you've got the dough to spend twice as much, I hear the NeoAir is lighter and more comfortable. I'm 5'10" and I find the 66" short to be of sufficient length.
couscous
07-29-2010, 14:50
You're only 20 years old...get a closed cell foam pad. Light, cheap, and indestructible. Now when you're about to turn 50 like me, ask again...
I'll second that suggestion. Z-Lite (http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/z-lite/product)
I'll second that suggestion. Z-Lite (http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/z-lite/product)
For even a more more minimalist approach, go with the 'blue foamer' for about $10 from Wally World. Cut down, I have it at ~5oz. If I were to cut it down to just 'butt and shoulder' length, it would weigh even less.
If this decrepit, 36 yo office worker can sleep on a blue foamer..than so can a 20 yo! ;)
You're only 20 years old...get a closed cell foam pad. Light, cheap, and indestructible. Now when you're about to turn 50 like me, ask again...
What does age have to do with it? I'd say it's more about needs and budget.
Anyway, you can't go wrong with a Thermarest Prolite plus, if it's in your budget. They are about $100 give or take depending on size.
jersey joe
07-29-2010, 16:16
For even a more more minimalist approach, go with the 'blue foamer' for about $10 from Wally World. Cut down, I have it at ~5oz. If I were to cut it down to just 'butt and shoulder' length, it would weigh even less.
If this decrepit, 36 yo office worker can sleep on a blue foamer..than so can a 20 yo! ;)
One issue I have with the blue foamer is that it doesn't pack up very small. But yeah, it works for me too.
johnnybgood
07-29-2010, 16:33
A Wally World pad is all you need. Cut it to 3/4 length . Actually my Wal-Mart has two types , the cheap $ 6 variety and the thicker $12 one.
couscous
07-29-2010, 16:41
What does age have to do with it? I'd say it's more about needs and budget.
At 20 I didn't need a pad, could sleep just fine on the hard ground. Now, I can't sleep at all without at least a Thermarest Prolite 3 or thicker pad. It used to be about needs and budget, now it's about aches and pains. ;)
At 20 I didn't need a pad, could sleep just fine on the hard ground. Now, I can't sleep at all without at least a Thermarest Prolite 3 or thicker pad. It used to be about needs and budget, now it's about aches and pains. ;)
I remember as a Boy Scout I camped year round even below freezing on the ground with just my sleeping bag and no pad. Now im 45 and a air pad is a must.
It's not just age, weight loss might also have a big impact. At the start, my pad worked fine, but by the time I hit Virginia I had lost enough weight that I could barely walk for the first 10 minutes every morning. I soon learned to sleep on my back instead of my side, and that solved the problem. Most of my weight loss was in the first 2 or 3 weeks, but perhaps the other aches and pains outweighed the pad, or perhaps it was the extra layers of clothes that I wore at the start.
I'll second that suggestion. Z-Lite (http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/z-lite/product)
ya I would probably get a closed cell similar to the z-lite. I was wondering how well they insulate from the ground in winter
I've used an expedition- weight ridgerest in cold weather with no problems. However, the non-expedition weight ones tend to freeze solid in cold weather. In retrospect, it's rather funny to try to watch someone decide it they can risk folding one without breaking it, but at the time, it can be critical. Especially if you need to get moving.
I'm not sure where the cut off for "cold" is, but it's above -20. And yes, you can encounter this kind of weather on the Southern AT, though it is rare. Remember, spring doesn't officially start till March 21.
I agree, it all depends on your personal comfort level, as well as on budget. I bought a blue pad from Wal-Mart, and immediately knew it was not for me. Oh, and I am 32.
I have used a couple of pads and have been happy with most (actually pretty much all but the blue wally world pad ~ HYOH.) If you are interested I would say go for a Z-Lite or try out a Ridgerest.
You can probably find some of the self inflators (ProLite's, Lite-Cores, etc...) for sale on this forum or another... I bought my first Prolite used and still have it.
If you like a big thick pad you could probably look around and find a deal on a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad. (I found my Exped Synmat 7 pump for $39.)
All this said, I ordered a NeoAir the night before last and it should be here this weekend. It's expensive, but this thing is light and small! Not to mention 2.5 inches of comfort and rectangular cut...
Check out my site. I did some videos and write ups on some pads:
http://stick13.wordpress.com/gear/my-current-gear/sleeping-pads/
Hi all! I am a long time reader but this is my first post. I was looking for opinions about sleeping pads. I used to only plan trips in summer so insulation was never an issue. With the purchase of a new sleeping bag, I am now able to plan trips for the colder months and I figured that I would need some insulation from the cold ground. Comfort is not as big of an issue as weight is, but I wouldn't mind having something that is both. So my question is what people could recommend that is first lightweight, and second comfortable?I bought this due to very good reviews:http://www.campmor.com/thermarest-prolite-4-inflating-sleeping-pad-large.shtml?source=CI&srccode=cii_65264419&cpncode=23-98213003-2
Try the thermorest Z-Lite. It folds up. 14 ounces/$40
http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3662211
Panzer
Blissful
07-29-2010, 22:00
Side sleepers - I really am liking my neoair I got. I use a thin insulate pad from Gossamer gear under it to protect it.
Never saw this before, looks interesting....
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43030
That is new. It was announced a few months ago and it is out now.
Keep in mind that 10% warmer is not (IMHO) significant enough to notice. In other words if the previous version was not good enough, neither will this one be.
Franco
garlic08
07-30-2010, 09:08
ya I would probably get a closed cell similar to the z-lite. I was wondering how well they insulate from the ground in winter
In winter, just add a second pad. I use Reflectix duct insulation which is mylar-coated bubble-wrap (a 20' roll costs $20). Works great and is small, light and cheap.
Thanks for all the info. I went and got a z-lite and it is really light. I might cut it down to make it pack up smaller
couscous
08-01-2010, 00:34
Before you cut it down, experiment with it on a hard floor. With the z-folds you vary the thickness of various parts. You cabe
Lay it all fiat. Folding an end twice can man give you a thicher section
couscous
08-01-2010, 00:35
Before you cut it down, experiment with it on a hard floor. With the z-folds you vary the thickness of various parts. You cabe
Lay it all fiat. Folding an end twice can man give you a thicher section
AN additional idea to have some variability, is to have a two pad system. I have cut my zrest down to shoulder to hip size and it works well as my pad for 3 season and the back for my Mariposa. During the winter ,I add a windshield reflector pad ( with the shinny foil surface).This adds great warmth for only a few ozs more.Also not bad for the comfort area either
WILLIAM HAYES
08-01-2010, 18:14
Z-lite is a good pad thermarest neo was being used by a lot of thru hikers i met this year personally i use a c c blue pad from wally mart-cheap and works well for me
couscous
08-01-2010, 18:37
Sorry for posts 22 & 23 .. I obviously shouldn't try to post in my sleep. A z-fold allows you to alter the thickness by folding a section over to make the area under your shoulders or hips twice as thick.
Sassafras Lass
08-04-2010, 11:22
"You're only 20 years old...get a closed cell foam pad. Light, cheap, and indestructible. Now when you're about to turn 50 like me, ask again..."
Well, I'm 26, and have had bad hips, shoulders, and some collapsing vertebrae since I was in high school . . . . Even when I was 20, I still couldn't stand to sleep without padding because I would experience shooting pain along my spine and my shoulders would ache for days.
Be thankful for your health, even at your age.
I have the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core, and at 18 oz. and on killer sale for $39.99, it is the most comfortable and lightweight thing I could hope to sleep on. Love it love it love it, and if it ever breaks I'm buying another, even at full price.
I'm 45 and can sleep on a straw beach mat (no padding) no problem. The lack of insulation is a problem if it's cold. The secret to happy sleeping without a lot of cushioning is site selection.
I have a half a z-rest and half a blue foam. They're about the same as far as padding goes. I don't notice much difference anyway. I velcro them together to have a full length pad or I take only one or the other half if I think I only need half a pad. Instead of rolling the blue foamer I fold it in thirds and it's just the right size that way to lay flat against my back inside the pack, providing support for my frameless pack.
Tipi Walter
08-04-2010, 13:43
Comfort vs Weight, it's the whole definition of Backpacking. The secret to finding a sleeping pad is going for comfort at the lightest weight. Inside the comfort spectrum is the R value of the pad, a very important number when slapping something down on ice and snow for 14 hours of in-tent time every night. When I look for a pad, I always start with these two criteria: It must be at least 3.5 R, and I must not feel my butt touch the ground when I sit up on it. (And a new one for older age: It must be 25 inches wide).
The Butt Touch Rule is easily broken on many, many so-called excellent pads. I used an Exped Downmat 9 for a trip and while it worked great in the supine position, sitting up on it my butt hit the cold frozen ground every time. Why is this important? Cuz on long winter trips you'll be spending most of your time(when not hiking), sitting up on your sleeping pad.
Another rule I follow is this: One Pad Only!! I won't carry two pads or a combo just to increase R value when I can find a single pad with a high R value though it may be a few ounces heavier. Dual pads often slide off each other, and two pads are bulkier. There are fantastic single pads available that are in the 5-6 R range. Inflatables, of course.
FamilyGuy
08-04-2010, 17:57
Tipi makes some great points. The only issue I have with R-value is that unlike EN testing for sleeping bags, there is no standardized test for R-value. I am not suggesting that manufacturers don't do testing but the testing is not standardized.
Regardless, I go with a high 'posted' R-value as well as a baseline. A warm pad boosts your sleep system, prevents heat stealing ground conduction, and allows you to sleep with a lighter bag.
Thanks for all the information guys. I'm not that interested in comfort as much as insulation from the ground. I purchased a z-lite but I'm not sure how well it would insulate during winter trips. Does anybody have an idea how well it works or recommendations?
Tipi Walter
08-06-2010, 00:36
Thanks for all the information guys. I'm not that interested in comfort as much as insulation from the ground. I purchased a z-lite but I'm not sure how well it would insulate during winter trips. Does anybody have an idea how well it works or recommendations?
I see comfort as being the same as "insulation from the ground." A single foam pad generally won't work in the winter, but you can find out for yourself when it turns cold by a night at 10F on the hard frozen ground in your backyard(you may have to wait until January). I used a Ridge Rest during the winter of '84 and it just did not work on snow and ice by itself with a goose down bag(in a tent). It didn't work FOR ME, in other words.
For a mat the important bit is ground temperature not air temperature.
Thermarest gives an R value to their mats. The Z Lite is rated at R2.2 , that is the same as the Pro Lite.
At this point you need to know at what minimum temperature an R2.2 feels good enough for you. Based on my past use of the Pro Lite , to me the "comfort" (temp wise, not cushion wise) level is about 35-40f .
Now a mat with an R rating of say 4.4 will have a thermal resistance of twice that. The problem here is that I do not know how to define twice as warm or twice as cold in degrees...
Again in my case, a ProLIte Plus W (R4.6) is OK around 28-30f and my Exped DM7 (R5.9 according to Exped) is OK for me at 19f but have not been at any lower temps on that.
Have a look at this chart from Exped. It gives you their R values and their suggested min temp with that.
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/b43popup5/E9747A9C9CD626BCC1256F2B00296698?Opendocument
Franco
FamilyGuy
08-06-2010, 09:36
For a mat the important bit is ground temperature not air temperature.
Thermarest gives an R value to their mats. The Z Lite is rated at R2.2 , that is the same as the Pro Lite.
At this point you need to know at what minimum temperature an R2.2 feels good enough for you. Based on my past use of the Pro Lite , to me the "comfort" (temp wise, not cushion wise) level is about 35-40f .
Now a mat with an R rating of say 4.4 will have a thermal resistance of twice that. The problem here is that I do not know how to define twice as warm or twice as cold in degrees...
Again in my case, a ProLIte Plus W (R4.6) is OK around 28-30f and my Exped DM7 (R5.9 according to Exped) is OK for me at 19f but have not been at any lower temps on that.
Have a look at this chart from Exped. It gives you their R values and their suggested min temp with that.
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/b43popup5/E9747A9C9CD626BCC1256F2B00296698?Opendocument
Franco
Franco, the problem with R-values is that there is no standardized testing in the industry. Unlike EN testing for sleeping bags, you cannot effectively compare R-value claims between pads, at least currently. Many of the pad manufacturers are working on a standardized testing methodology - in fact, this is going on right now in SLC. We will see....
Tipi Walter
08-06-2010, 12:24
For a mat the important bit is ground temperature not air temperature.
Thermarest gives an R value to their mats. The Z Lite is rated at R2.2 , that is the same as the Pro Lite.
Franco
Thanks for the neat Exped comparision chart. Regarding the Thermarest Prolites, only the Prolite 3 is rated at R2.2, and when you say "Prolite", well, there isn't just a "prolite". It's either the discontinued Prolite 3 or Prolite 4 or the newer Prolite Plus. Here are the specs:
Prolite 3: R 2.3
Prolite 4: R 3.2
Prolite Plus: R 3.8 (And then the specs for the Woman's Prolite)
The Plus R is the exact same as the cheaper but slightly heavier Trail Pro pad, and both made excellent 3 season pads. When the temps fall in January it's a whole different story.
I used to make a point to always bring a sleeping pad, ever since a winter experience involving alot of condensation. Now in summer I bring a wool blanket instead of a sleeping pad, because it is a little more verastile. I use my poncho as a ground sheet when needed, or a separate ground sheet if my poncho is to be my tarp. I use the wool blanket as a sleeping pad at night, and a picnic blanket by day, and as a blanket when sitting or standing in the early mornings and late evenings. I sometimes pack it and sometime fold it over my shoulder and carry it that way, under the straps of my pack.
Instead of a wool blanket, maybe you need a traditional wool poncho like they wear in South America.
Too heavy for me.
I tried bringing a straw beach mat last weekend. It was too cold.
Tipi Walter
08-06-2010, 16:19
Instead of a wool blanket, maybe you need a traditional wool poncho like they wear in South America.
Too heavy for me.
I tried bringing a straw beach mat last weekend. It was too cold.
For years I carried a wool poncho in my pack. It was used for clothing, to sit on during yoga, and under my short orange Thermarest to protect it from thorns. (Pic taken around '84 in Pisgah NF near Raider Camp Creek.) JAK's idea is a good one, but now I don't do yoga much anymore and instead use a silnylon tarp under the pad to keep it from getting punctured.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_b401C2NJk-Y/SWd7bIQFyeI/AAAAAAAAACA/kwmA_qongTQ/LIVING%20OUT.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com/Tipi.Walter/BackpackingWithTipiWalter#5289331993371593186
That's one awesome poncho!
Awesome photo of Tipi. Way stylin'.
Tipi Walter
ProLite is the new name for the ProLite 3
ProLite Plus is the new name for the ProLite 4
Different colours , same specs.
There is a W (women) version of both, so my "ProLite Plus W" is in fact a ProLite 4 W ...
Franco
Family Guy
It is true that there is no standard however there is a standard within the brand. So you can compare one Thermarest with another Thermarest as you can compare one Exped with another Exped.
looking at the other specs (thickness, material used, design) should give you an idea of how another brand with a similar mat will perform.
For example the Exped SimLite 3.8 (72x20x1.5 ,25 oz) is rated by Exped R3.2, the TM ProLite Plus (72x20x1.5, 24 oz) is rated by TM R 3.8 . (18% diff)
Franco
FamilyGuy
08-07-2010, 01:40
Family Guy
It is true that there is no standard however there is a standard within the brand. So you can compare one Thermarest with another Thermarest as you can compare one Exped with another Exped.
I agree.
looking at the other specs (thickness, material used, design) should give you an idea of how another brand with a similar mat will perform.
For example the Exped SimLite 3.8 (72x20x1.5 ,25 oz) is rated by Exped R3.2, the TM ProLite Plus (72x20x1.5, 24 oz) is rated by TM R 3.8 . (18% diff)
Franco[/QUOTE]
I don't agree because we don't know how Exped got their R-value, nor do we know how Cascade Designs got theirs. Just my opinion, however.
Tipi Walter
08-07-2010, 07:33
The best and only way I know to test R values of a particular pad company is to study that company's pads and take several out over the years on winter trips. In the winter, I've learned a Prolite 4 at 3.2R is colder than a Base Camp at 6.2R. An Expedition pad at 4.4R will work too in the winter and on snow. After spending years tweaking my system, Thermarest changes their pads and comes out with a whole new set of models and specs. Back to the drawing board. But I've found the kind of pad I need for my trips, summer or winter, and I've found them all in the Thermarest line.
Just as I'm very hands-on familiar with Thermarest pads, there are probably guys out there who know all about the real-world use of Exped or Big Agnes or Pacific Outdoor Equipment pads. The only reason I've stuck with Thermarest is because they were available in the late 1970's when I got my first one, and have been around ever since. Exped and Big Agnes and maybe POE are late-bloomers.