View Full Version : Blazing
Jack Tarlin
08-03-2010, 15:36
There's been a lively discussion in Glencliff this afternoon.
What are the worst blazed/marked/signed sections of the Trail, i.e. which ones gave you the most trouble and which could use the most improvement?
This thread is NOT about maintainers, our obvious debt to them, our moral obligation to volunteer or giveback to the Trail, etc. It's simply an open question: Which sections of the Trail gave you trouble because of the way they were marked, and which, in your improvement, could use some work?
Jack Tarlin
08-03-2010, 15:42
Last sentence above, obviously, should read "Which sections, in your opinion, could use some work or improvement." Thank you.
central virginia is a little light south trent's store.
new york above 17a and all those white with red dot blazing mixed in.
the north half of Mt. Washington after you get into the woods again - one 20 year old blaze and sign with the AT arrow scratched out.
those irritated the most....
juma
Pedaling Fool
08-03-2010, 15:53
I don't remember specifics, but I remember being lost a lot in SW Virginia...then again I've lost the trail in SNP...actually I've gotten lost in every state.
Talk AMC into allowing white blazes in the whites --- for thru-hikers that have been trained over months by then to be uncomfortable when not seeing blazes, it's just --- uncomfortable to go for long distances without seeing blazes. Not a huge deal, just something that popped into my head.
At the north end of where the Long Trail and the AT converge/diverge, the FIRST sign a NOBO hiker sees that's on the AT should mention the bloody AT, or have a white blaze or something. I walked for quite a ways on the LT (trained by then over a hundred miles that the AT and LT are the same thing ...) before figuring it out and turning around. The sign that actually says anything about the AT was quite a few feet down the trail and of course in the shade.
Repaint any light/pale blue blazes to be a bolder shade of blue. Pale blue blazes, in the shade, can be tough to distinguish from faded white blazes.
Walk the bloody trail and look for ambiguities. At any trail split it's annoying to have to guess and walk quite a ways to finally see a confirming white blaze (or eventually ... not see one ...) --- put these in sight at the point of the junction. And never, ever put a white blaze on a tree that's between two trails at a junction --- this is just mindless ("well, indeed, one of these two is the AT, thanks a lot ..."). It's just a matter of seeing things from the perspective of someone coming up to it fresh, at any junction. Unfortuantely I didn't take notes on the various places I encountered examples of all of the above this year.
The above aside, of course the AT is a remarkably well-marked trail. It's the inherent goodness of it that tends to lead to high expectations, which in turn make the quite infrequent issues stand out, so please take my comments in that context.
kayak karl
08-03-2010, 16:36
SOBO out of Mahoosuc Notch. i little wierd for 3 miles. i didn't get lost but three others did. i CAUGHT up. i learned to look back. NOBO is better blazed IMO
The Old Fhart
08-03-2010, 17:54
BrianLe-“Talk AMC into allowing white blazes in the whites ---…”
You can talk to the AMC all you want but the AMC has no authority to blaze trails in the Whites. If you pay attention to the trail signs you will see that the trail above tree line is under the authority of the U.S. Forest Service and the USFS is the trail maintainer, not the AMC. Unfortunately with their meager budget the USFS haven’t been able to maintain the trails the way they would like.
Scooby99
08-03-2010, 18:23
2 years ago I found the Smokies in the winter to be very hard to follow in 2-3 feet of snow, went many miles without seeing blazes, ended up digging down to look at rocks to find blazes on some bald sections.
Hikerhead
08-03-2010, 18:28
You can talk to the AMC all you want but the AMC has no authority to blaze trails in the Whites. If you pay attention to the trail signs you will see that the trail above tree line is under the authority of the U.S. Forest Service and the USFS is the trail maintainer, not the AMC. Unfortunately with their meager budget the USFS haven’t been able to maintain the trails the way they would like.
I didn't have any trouble going across Washington. I remember the juntions as being marked well and I just followed those large rock piles with the white rock on top. I did have problems in the bottom before Pinkam but it was dark. I thought I was on the trail beside a creek when I hit my head on a bridge,Wow! I'm back on the trail. That part is a wilderness area and blazes are not allowed. Pushed my way into the firs and set up my hammock...the next day in the day light it wasn't any problem at all, just followed the trail that looked the most worn.
Memphis Tim
08-03-2010, 18:35
I seem to remember having a little bit of trouble in central PA, especially with the markings for the side-trails leading to some of the shelters.
Migrating Bird
08-03-2010, 19:30
Some of the open ledges in ME gave me a little trouble SOBO if I remember correctly Baldplate was one, same with Moxie Bald, you have to walk around the rock ledges to see where the trail re-enters the trees. Ditto what Kayak Karl said about SOBO after Mahoosuc Notch. The Whites are entirely different - carins with white rocks, yellow rocks and specific trail names, the only thing that would help short of white blazes for AT hikers is on the trail junction signs in parenthesis put the AT symbol. The history and tradition of trail names is more important than white blazes in the Whites IMHO. Another thing to consider is that the trails which the AT follows through the Whites are used year round. Consider the fact that in certain weather conditions above timberline white does not show up at all especially in snow -1/4" on July 1st this year on Washington. I loved the Whites between trail junctions the trails are easy enough to follow. I could see that for some who don't carry maps the lack of white blazes in the Whites could be a serious (safety issue) problem. Just my opinion, thanks
Kerosene
08-03-2010, 19:45
Well, unlike Hikerhead (who hiked with me in Sept. 2006) I thought that the blazing north of Osgood Tentsite was abysmal (but then again, I was hiking at least twice as fast as he was). Fortunately, I had heard that it was sparse, and I had carefully scanned the map and re-read the guidebook, so I found the turns fairly easily. Even so, it's unnerving when you haven't seen a blaze in a mile (there was only one on the Old Jackson Road, and that was on a downed tree!) and you know that there are a lot of other trails in the area.
On the same section hike, it was fortunate that I knew it would be tricky at the top of Moosilaukee in the fog (turn sharp left along the foundation of the old summit building). I also found it annoying that all blazes disappeared for the mile north of Mt. Guyot.
In May 2005 I lost the trail for a bit just north of Helveys Mill Shelter, where it drops out to a road to cross I-77. There was a clear trail continuing straight ahead into a small field across the road, so I just kept walking for a quarter-mile before it disappeared. I think they've relocated that section by now.
IMHO, it's not the frequency of the blazing but the consistency. I wouldn't mind fewer blazes as long as they're consistently spaced, with consistent treatment of intersections and turns. You can never be quite sure if you're on the AT until you actually see a blaze (unless of course you've walked a section a half-dozen times!). Looking behind me has helped on occasion.
couscous
08-03-2010, 20:01
I thought that the blazing north of Osgood Tentsite was abysmal...
Seems that due to a routing error, most of the white blazes destined for NH ended up in NY. :rolleyes:
Seems that due to a routing error, most of the white blazes destined for NH ended up in NY. :rolleyes:
I think you are onto something there. :)
central virginia is a little light south trent's store.
...
juma
I agree. It was a long, rocky ridgeline south of Trent's and I remember there being few blazes. Nothing serious, but for a novice like me, it was a bit disconcerting in a few places.
Hikerhead
08-03-2010, 20:54
Well, unlike Hikerhead (who hiked with me in Sept. 2006) I thought that the blazing north of Osgood Tentsite was abysmal (but then again, I was hiking at least twice as fast as he was). Fortunately, I had heard that it was sparse, and I had carefully scanned the map and re-read the guidebook, so I found the turns fairly easily. Even so, it's unnerving when you haven't seen a blaze in a mile (there was only one on the Old Jackson Road, and that was on a downed tree!) and you know that there are a lot of other trails in the area.
On the same section hike, it was fortunate that I knew it would be tricky at the top of Moosilaukee in the fog (turn sharp left along the foundation of the old summit building). I also found it annoying that all blazes disappeared for the mile north of Mt. Guyot.
In May 2005 I lost the trail for a bit just north of Helveys Mill Shelter, where it drops out to a road to cross I-77. There was a clear trail continuing straight ahead into a small field across the road, so I just kept walking for a quarter-mile before it disappeared. I think they've relocated that section by now.
IMHO, it's not the frequency of the blazing but the consistency. I wouldn't mind fewer blazes as long as they're consistently spaced, with consistent treatment of intersections and turns. You can never be quite sure if you're on the AT until you actually see a blaze (unless of course you've walked a section a half-dozen times!). Looking behind me has helped on occasion.
With that big head bouncing up and down on those short little legs, I'm amazed that you could see ANY blazing. And you cut yourself short, I think you're THREE times faster than me, not that I really give a shark.
SmokyMtn Hiker
08-03-2010, 21:06
The problems I have had are the sections maintained by the TEHC, Spivey Gap to Damascus. There is a intersection just north of Hwy 19E where I think there was a relo and it is what I called the six way intersection because of all the ATV trails going in ever which way. There was no blazing or any indication in which way to go and I ended up on what a nice man at a house told me was the old AT, he was very nice and got me back on the trail which was almost a mile away. There is other places along where they maintain that could be blazed better in my opinion.
Alligator
08-04-2010, 07:51
You can talk to the AMC all you want but the AMC has no authority to blaze trails in the Whites. If you pay attention to the trail signs you will see that the trail above tree line is under the authority of the U.S. Forest Service and the USFS is the trail maintainer, not the AMC. Unfortunately with their meager budget the USFS haven’t been able to maintain the trails the way they would like.This was split off to a new thread here. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64150)
berkshirebirder
08-04-2010, 08:37
At any trail split it's annoying to have to guess and walk quite a ways to finally see a confirming white blaze (or eventually ... not see one ...) --- put these in sight at the point of the junction. --brianle
Terrific thread, Jack.
I'd second brianle's comment about having a confirming blaze within sight at trail splits. This is something that should be instituted on trails everywhere, IMO.
There's been a lively discussion in Glencliff this afternoon.
What are the worst blazed/marked/signed sections of the Trail, i.e. which ones gave you the most trouble and which could use the most improvement?
This thread is NOT about maintainers, our obvious debt to them, our moral obligation to volunteer or giveback to the Trail, etc. It's simply an open question: Which sections of the Trail gave you trouble because of the way they were marked, and which, in your improvement, could use some work?That's just like you Jack, to open a thread that would actually require someone to hike the trail. :mad:
MattBuck30
08-04-2010, 09:31
During my 2008 thru hike, one of the only spots where a few of my hiking partners got lost was in New York just before Bear Mountain. There are a few other trails that cross over the AT, and it was confusing at times as to which direction to head.
earlyriser26
08-04-2010, 14:48
Well, unlike Hikerhead (who hiked with me in Sept. 2006) I thought that the blazing north of Osgood Tentsite was abysmal (but then again, I was hiking at least twice as fast as he was). Fortunately, I had heard that it was sparse, and I had carefully scanned the map and re-read the guidebook, so I found the turns fairly easily. Even so, it's unnerving when you haven't seen a blaze in a mile (there was only one on the Old Jackson Road, and that was on a downed tree!) and you know that there are a lot of other trails in the area.
On the same section hike, it was fortunate that I knew it would be tricky at the top of Moosilaukee in the fog (turn sharp left along the foundation of the old summit building). I also found it annoying that all blazes disappeared for the mile north of Mt. Guyot.
In May 2005 I lost the trail for a bit just north of Helveys Mill Shelter, where it drops out to a road to cross I-77. There was a clear trail continuing straight ahead into a small field across the road, so I just kept walking for a quarter-mile before it disappeared. I think they've relocated that section by now.
IMHO, it's not the frequency of the blazing but the consistency. I wouldn't mind fewer blazes as long as they're consistently spaced, with consistent treatment of intersections and turns. You can never be quite sure if you're on the AT until you actually see a blaze (unless of course you've walked a section a half-dozen times!). Looking behind me has helped on occasion.
I missed the turn at Osgood and hiked so far down hill that I added about 5 miles on the day. I knew the turn was coming, but it was poorly marked.
The Old Fhart
08-04-2010, 15:01
Kerosene-"Well, unlike Hikerhead (who hiked with me in Sept. 2006) I thought that the blazing north of Osgood Tentsite was abysmal (but then again, I was hiking at least twice as fast as he was). Fortunately, I had heard that it was sparse, and I had carefully scanned the map and re-read the guidebook, so I found the turns fairly easily. Even so, it's unnerving when you haven't seen a blaze in a mile (there was only one on the Old Jackson Road, and that was on a downed tree!) and you know that there are a lot of other trails in the area."The section from Osgood Tentsite north to the Mt. Washington Auto Road is in the Federally designated Great Gulf Wilderness Area and it's unlikely you'll see any blazing there.
Back in '98, coming out of Hanover, NH was a struggle... few blazes, turn indicator blazes done incorrectly, different color blazes, etc etc etc. I've heard that the blazing through there has improved dramatically since then though. Though I kind of enjoyed having to use my brain a little to figure out which way to go back then... it was a nice change of pace from the usual.
Back in '98, coming out of Hanover, NH was a struggle... few blazes, turn indicator blazes done incorrectly, different color blazes, etc etc etc. I've heard that the blazing through there has improved dramatically since then though. Though I kind of enjoyed having to use my brain a little to figure out which way to go back then... it was a nice change of pace from the usual.
IIRC, wasn't there an icestorm that previous winter? Probably had something to do with the trail conditions.
IIRC, wasn't there an icestorm that previous winter? Probably had something to do with the trail conditions.
Yeah, I think you're right about that. And it was a huge one too, if I'm thinking of the right storm. Probably took a while to get things back to normal after that.
Blood Mountain after the shelter, heading down to Mtn.Crossings, the rocks heading down.
Poorly marked, very confusing, many hikers miss the hard left turn down the mountain if they
haven't hiked there before.
Bare Bear
08-13-2010, 14:46
Clarendon Gorge definitely. Some fool had left coolers full of beer and water right on the Trail. Dick Tracy and I drank 'a few' and barely made it the mile up the hill to the camp. Fell down once myself. Couldn't find a blaze anywhere.......
In the past several years of section hiking the AT, the only place I got off trail for any amount of time was on the final descent into Duncannon. Ended up in a parking lot, with no trail markings. Had to backtrack up the hill a ways until I found where I made my mistake. Marking was not obvious, but my mistake was probably due to the poor, rainy weather and the fact that I was keeping my head down.
trailangelmary
08-17-2010, 13:32
In the past several years of section hiking the AT, the only place I got off trail for any amount of time was on the final descent into Duncannon. Ended up in a parking lot, with no trail markings. Had to backtrack up the hill a ways until I found where I made my mistake. Marking was not obvious, but my mistake was probably due to the poor, rainy weather and the fact that I was keeping my head down.
Easy walk out from that spot - walk road - brings you out just before bridge that crosses creek(AT), equivalent of 4 city blocks. The path you took is the old AT, rerouted so wouldn't be walking through neighborhood. You are not the first and probably won't be the last to enter Duncannon that way!
Gray Blazer
08-18-2010, 11:04
This section happens to be well marked ...
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/2/1/7/100_3141.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showimage.php?i=16234&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6217)
cutman11
08-18-2010, 11:21
coming northbound toward carlo col. You reach the top of a small rock outcropping, and the only way down is a very steep drop that you cant come back from once you drop. I was unsure if that was the way. A single blaze visible at the bottom from the top would be immensely useful to confirm that it is correct to drop down.
coming northbound toward carlo col. You reach the top of a small rock outcropping, and the only way down is a very steep drop that you cant come back from once you drop. I was unsure if that was the way. A single blaze visible at the bottom from the top would be immensely useful to confirm that it is correct to drop down.
since the AT is meant to be hiked in both directions i'd imagine anything that can gone down but not re-ascended couldnt possibly be the trail, no?
Tenderheart
08-18-2010, 13:52
I had a lot of trouble coming into Harper's Ferry after I crossed the river. The guy at the ATC HQ said that the NP head was against blazes in town of any kind.
litefoot 2000
In 04 hiking the (about) 5 miles south of Unaka Mt, the blazes totally disappeared. I followed the trail for about a mile or so, then backtracked thinking I had missed the turn or some such. Just about 20 steps from finding the last blaze I had passed, I noticed a odd colored patch on a tree. It was a patch of brown that didn't exactly match the tree, & was in the size / shape of a AT blaze. Someone had come & painted over 4 miles of AT blazes, ALL of them! On both sides of the trees. Thankfully about 1 minute after finding this puzzle, I met some southbounders who assured me that I was indeed on the AT & they were equally puzzled by the covered blazes.
That has been the only section I have been on so far that needed re-blazed, or even more blazes.
Undershaft
08-19-2010, 11:18
coming northbound toward carlo col. You reach the top of a small rock outcropping, and the only way down is a very steep drop that you cant come back from once you drop. I was unsure if that was the way. A single blaze visible at the bottom from the top would be immensely useful to confirm that it is correct to drop down.
I remember that spot. I thought for a minute I had lost the trail, but I realized that crazy rock scramble must be the trail because there was no other place for it to go. There was a distinct lack of white blazes in that spot and it would be reassuring to see blazes there. If I recall correctly that whole section of the Mahoosuc trail was poorly blazed. Great area to hike though. Mt. Success was a PITA to hike up, but has a beautiful summit, one of my favorites.
rambunny
08-19-2010, 12:40
Roads always confuse me.
Roads always confuse me.
Road crossings are where I find maps most useful. It's not uncommon to pop out on a road and not have a clue as to where the trail picks up on the other side (even after a cursory look).
A map will show if the trail crosses straight ahead, to the left or to the right.
max patch
08-19-2010, 12:58
In 04 hiking the (about) 5 miles south of Unaka Mt, the blazes totally disappeared. I followed the trail for about a mile or so, then backtracked thinking I had missed the turn or some such. Just about 20 steps from finding the last blaze I had passed, I noticed a odd colored patch on a tree. It was a patch of brown that didn't exactly match the tree, & was in the size / shape of a AT blaze. Someone had come & painted over 4 miles of AT blazes, ALL of them! On both sides of the trees. Thankfully about 1 minute after finding this puzzle, I met some southbounders who assured me that I was indeed on the AT & they were equally puzzled by the covered blazes.
That has been the only section I have been on so far that needed re-blazed, or even more blazes.
Sounds like a relo. When sectioning I love to hike the brown (sometimes black) blazed trail whenever I come across them.
Trailbender
08-24-2010, 16:16
Back in '98, coming out of Hanover, NH was a struggle... few blazes, turn indicator blazes done incorrectly, different color blazes, etc etc etc. I've heard that the blazing through there has improved dramatically since then though. Though I kind of enjoyed having to use my brain a little to figure out which way to go back then... it was a nice change of pace from the usual.
Same in 2010. I am not sure what the DOC does with their trail maintenance dollars, but I think I can safely say from my experience this year that it doesn't go to maintaining trails.
I did do trail maintenance at Kincora with Bob Peoples, and again in Maine with Phil, the two miles or so south of Monson. I do appreciate the work people do for the trail, but I noticed many areas up north looked like they had not seen maintenance in years(rotting bog bridges with 8 inch rusty nails sticking up).