A.T. and P.C.T. gear differences

[Mountain Dew]

I hiked the A.T. in 2003 and am now planning a 2005 thru-hike of the PCT. What gear might i need that i didn't need on the A.T. I know that I will need an ice axe, but at what point will I need this item ? Also I believe that i will need a bag at some point that is rated in the 15 degre range....right ???? :-?

[Pencil Pusher]

Why don't you join forces with LW and get all the info you need firsthand? I bet he gets tired of hiking the same trails over and over. If you can convince him spooning is the answer to going light, that might be a solution.

For more specifics, read Chris's adventure of the PCT:
http://www.pierce.ctc.edu/faculty/cwillett/

I can see it now, LW and M-dew the PCT, 2005.

[TakeABreak]

Trailplace has a lot information about other trails.

[A-Train]

Dew-

Wow you got some great answers there...

Obviously I haven't hiked the PCT. But you definately need lightweigh running shoes or trail runners, because your feet will get unbearably hot in boots. Also most folks are using tarp tents now because tents are on the heavy side, but a tarp itself can be a pain if no bug netting is used. Can't really use a hammock like folks on the AT do.

I can't think of anything in specific but mostly all the gear is trimmed down and lightweight so that you can carry as much water as necessary.

I'd do the folllowing if you haven't already:

buy Yogi's Handbook. I have it and its really excellent, though from 03' hikers accounts so some of the info is already outdating, but its pretty fresh info.

Joing the PCT-L mailing list. You can join by going to backcountry.net Lots of trail angels and folks living near the trail to give you up to date info on cache's, conditions etc..

Pick Chris' brain on this site. Dude has obviously spent a good deal of time thinking about the PCT and his experience. I think he's a trustworth source of info.

[Ridge]

But you definately need lightweigh running shoes or trail runners, because your feet will get unbearably hot in boots.
If you are use to trail shoes, you should be fine. However, if its boots you are use to, then I would recommend a non-gortex hiking boot, gortex will make your feet hotter.

[chris]

This is something of a broad question. You can get at my PCT pages, with gear list, etc, at http://www.pierce.ctc.edu/faculty/cwillett

There are some big differences, particularly at the start. The PCT will not feel comfortable, relaxing, etc, as the AT is. You start in real desert and it is 20 miles to your first good water source. Here are a few things that really stand out in my mind. Sorry for the length of the post, but I got back early from climbing in the Olympics and have time on my hands.

1) Try running (not trail runners) in SoCal. The ground temps are ridiculous and you want as much mesh as you can get. Forget gaiters. Think cool. Don't think sandals, as the sun will roast your feet.

2) Forget the sticks. Many (most?) PCT hikers use trekking poles. I see less of a reason for them on the PCT than on the AT, as the grade is usually good.

3) Tarp it. There isn't much precip out West and most nights you will probably just sleep out. Personally, I would go with the lightest tarp you can find (something like Oware's CAT tarp) and a bug sleep net (I used a good one from Dancing Light). Or, you can spend a little more (cash and weight) and buy the Virga from Henry Shires or Ron Moak's new Lunar solo.

4) Water. In SoCal, the whole game is water. Drink lots. Carry lots. Always know where the next source is. Pretend caches do not exist. There is only one place a cache is critical, and that is at Scissors Crossing. Ignore all cache information. Banish the word from your mind. Carry your own water, just like you might carry your own condoms to a nightclub. Waterless stretches of 20 miles are very common (rare to have less than 15), with lots of 25s, a couple of 30s, and even a 35 or two.

5) Cover up. Wear long pants and a long sleeve shirt, with a big brimmed hat, and maybe sun gloves. Do not count on sunblock to save you: It won't. A lot of people in 2003 got their arse's chewed by the sun this way. I was able to hike through most days without issue by hiding from the sun and drinking a lot of water. You never see desert dwellers in shorts and t-shirts: They are covered from head to foot. The only people in shorts and t-****s are tourists.

6) Change your hiking style. You'll want to be hiking in the early AM and in the early evening. Not only does it cool off, but the land is really special then. This is something I have not found on the AT. So, try to get up with the sun (easy if you sleep out) and hike up until 8 or so. Cook a meal when you hit a watersource in the late afternoon and rest well.

7) Get in at least reasonable shape before hand. Unlike the AT, you'll need to start out with some high mileage days due to water limitations. You can't do 12 or 15. Most likely, you'll beat out 20, then 23, followed by a few more 20s. In short, you can't have the trail do your conditioning for you. However, there are still out of shape, sedentary types who start the PCT and finish it. They just prefer to suffer a lot on their vacation, rather than exercise while at home. A lot of people, however, get bounced by SoCal for this reason.

8) Take your time early. If you start at the KOP (last weekend in April), you've got about a month of walking (at a reasonable, uninjured) pace to get you to Kennedy Meadows. That puts you at the start of the Sierra around the end of May. Unless it is a crazy low snow year, you'll have to sit for about 2 weeks waiting for the snow to melt, or you'll have to be very good on snow and very fit to make it through without waiting. So, there is no need to rush. Try to time things for June 15. If you start at the KOP, you'll have to dawdle alot, which is hard in the desert. You can take a break of about a week in Agua Dulce and head into LA. Big Bear is nice. But, honestly, I'd start later than the KOP. If you are not planning to get into shape, start at the KOP because you'll need the time to heal from injuries and sunstroke.

9) There are no shelters. Okay, there are 3, I think. But, the first one is around 1200 miles north. Camping is more dispersed than on the AT, although every year gangs form and camp together. In 2003, there was the F-Troop and the Ewoks, and later the Caboozers. This year, there was Team Stone Monkey and the Unit (also called the Shire) and probably others. If you want to be with others, the opportunity is there. However, the general rule, unless you work to break it, is solitude. Moreover, there are far fewer hostels and organized trail angels. There are several in the northern LA area. There is one in the Donner pass (I-80) area. That is about it, although every year new ones spring up, take in people, then close down for good.

10) Try to finish before September. This will be considered a fast hike, but you'll get Washington at its best, rather than a whole lot of cold, wet snow and rain. Hikers this year had little luck, as it rained alot in August in the Cascades. In 2003, I had about 2-3 rain episodes in Washington. The rest was gorgeous. Washington is really nice (I moved here after the PCT!), but alot of people get hammered here because they are hiking through in late Sept or even early Oct. The hiking season is a lot shorter on the PCT than on the AT.

11) Buy as you go. Postage will be a fortune sending things from the east coast. Use a bounce bucket.

Information sources that I found helpful include

Mag's journal (http://www.magnanti.com)
Dave Brock's journal (http://members.tripod.com/gohike/)
Craig's PCT Planner (http://www.pctplanner.com)
Jonathan Ley's PCT and CDT journals (http://www.phlumf.com)

Since you've thruhiked already, you might think Yogi's book won't be helpful. However, she has a lot of water info in it and that should still be accurate. I've got a lot of comments from 2004 hikers about things that I contributed to the book, not all positive. Some of the incredible chef's that I wrote about had moved on, leaving hikers with Little Debbie snack cakes to eat, rather than Coyote Ugly (apple bread pudding with bourbon sauce and ice cream).

[Alligator]

[QUOTE=chris]...
11) Buy as you go. Postage will be a fortune sending things from the east coast. Use a bounce bucket.

...

Since you've thruhiked already, you might think Yogi's book won't be helpful. However, she has a lot of water info in it and that should still be accurate... QUOTE]

I sat in on Mags' talk about the PCT at the Gathering. A potential tip that one PCT thru mentioned was that they brought a large box of smaller mail box drops with them on the plane and mailed them straight from the post office at the arriving airport to save postage. Might be a workable idea under some circumstances. It did sound cumbersome. Mags was very knowledgeable and also recommended Yogi's book highly.

[Tha Wookie]

I agree with everything Chris and Alligator has said except finishing before Sept. I finished in October (started May 17) and Washington, while cold at times with some good snowstorms, was incredible and I wouldn't have changed a thing. It was PRIME huckleberry season then. Not a lot of other hikers, though.

Just remember it is a TOTALLY different hike than the AT.

Good luck

[chris]

I agree with everything Chris and Alligator has said except finishing before Sept. I finished in October (started May 17) and Washington, while cold at times with some good snowstorms, was incredible and I wouldn't have changed a thing. It was PRIME huckleberry season then. Not a lot of other hikers, though.

Just remember it is a TOTALLY different hike than the AT.

Good luck

I'm a much softer hiker, though. Huckleberries (and Blueberries) were good in August, but not yet fully sweet.

[Spirit Walker]

You don't have to do a speed hike, though you will find that the miles come easier than on the AT. Yes the distance between water sources will force the pace, and you will develop the habit of hiking very early and fairly late because of desert heat, but Chris' 30 mile a day pace is good for him, but not a necessity. We started the week before the Kick Off Party, reached the Sierras the first week of June (early - there was a lot of snow and runoff) and finished the 22nd of September. Yes, we did get snowed on in Washington - not a big deal. Our hike was 5 months and 5 days, and many hikers finished a month after we did.

As to the original question - water carrying capacity is essential, with backup. We had our platypus spring a leak as did the dromedary. We filtered in the south, but not much in the north except when camped by lakes. I used running shoes in the desert, leather boots in the snow then light boots the rest of the trail (bought runners that fell apart within a week, so switched to light Raichles.) I agree about covering up, but I found my nylon shirt unbearably hot and wouldn't wear it. Jim used his all the way. This is one time cotton can be a good idea. The nylon zip off pants were fine though. A good hat is essential. Not a baseball hat, you want your ears and neck covered. Carry bug dope from KM on. You may want it before that for the flies. We carried our ice axes from Kennedy Meadows to Sierra City - if this is a high snow year you may need it much longer. We had friends who hiked in 1995 who carried their axes the entire way. Light rain gear is okay for the southern trail, but you might want heavier gear in Washington. I used Frogg Toggs and was cold in the sleet, but would use them again. The Sierras were not nearly as cold as I expected. We had done the CDt the year before, so I was expecting Colorado temperatures. That didn't happen. We ended up sending a lot of winter gear home from Lone Pine, after picking it up in KM. We got snowed on at Forester Pass, but mostly we were in shirt sleeves in the snow through the Sierras. The PCT is mostly a very hot trail - 90 degrees and up in both southern and northern California, slightly cooler in Oregon and much cooler/wetter in Washington. We used a light tent (Nomad). Every time we set up without a tent the dew dropped and we got soaked. So mostly we tented. Even in S.Cal it can rain, so don't assume you don't need a tent at all. We had rain on our second day. As others have said, the bugs can be a problem so a plain tarp may not work for you. A 20 deg down bag worked just fine all the way for us. When it was hot we slept on top of it. I found a book essential in the desert sections when we would wait out the heat of the day from 11:00 - 2:00. If I had finished my book I would start hiking again too soon, and that was usually a really bad idea. YMMV

[Mountain Dew]

Pencil Pusher... Something tells me that LW and myself wouldn't make good hiking partners...plus I'm a dedicated go heavy hiker.
------------------------------------------
Chris, "There are some big differences, particularly at the start. The PCT will not feel comfortable, relaxing, etc, as the AT is."--- I tried the think of anything that was comfortable OR relaxing about the first few weeks on the A.T. and really couldn't unless you count Walasyi (sp) Hostel. Good idea for the mesh running shoes. That idea crossed my mind, but i wasn't sure if it was a good one. As far as poles goes I already use a pair of ultra-light hiking poles. Tarp ? I plan on using the MSR Hubba. Weighs 3 pounds, I can sit up in it, it looks totally rain proof, and I really hate tarps because they usually allow a certain amount of bugs in nomatter what you do. Water...so the entire trail has these huge gaps of water sources like that ? I thought it was just in the beginning ? oh boy... Good tip about being in shape for bigger miles in the beginning, but won't miles be easier because of the desert being flat ? The heat factor won't play too much of a factor as i am from Texas and grew up and still live on a cattle/horse ranch. I LOVE the heat. GREAT ideas as far as long sleeves and pants though. GREAT advice about the KOP. I plan to start at the KOP and me and several others are going to fly back east for Trail Days thus missing a week. This will help the "stall" time at Kennedy Meadows I'm thinking. Where do people stay at Kennedy Meadows ? Hike fast to avoid rain up north in Washington ? lol hahaaa I hiked the A.T. in 2003. THE wettest A.T. season ever that anybody can remember. The first 40 days I hiked it rained 30 of those days. I do however agree that wet and cold is totally miserable and this Texan hates the cold so that will loom in my mind. Thanks for that important tip ! Chris thanks alot.....
-------------------------------------
basic questions here...
1.Can i use a 15 degre bag the whole trail and be fine considering I hike during the normal PCT hiking season ?
2. Will i need boots to wear at any point ?
3. Crampons needed and where ?
4. So I should start with my ice axe or mail it to Kennedy Meadows ?

thanks everybody.... :clap

[A-Train]

Yes, us 03' AT hikers do have those bragging rights about dealing with rain (when is it gonna stop?!) but you gotta remember the elevation in Washington on average is much higher than the AT, as is the PCT in general. Cold and rain translates into snow -Washington in Sept/Oct isn't like Maine. The PCT in general seems like a more extreme trail than the AT. The hot is hotter, cold is colder, no water, longer days etc.....

[chris]

Comfort: You can spend a day or two sleeping under a tree in Georgia. Unless you have a huge stock of water, if you spend a day or two sleeping by a bush near Campo, you may end up dead. That is slight hyperbole, but at mirrors some truth.

Water: Rare water for the first 700 miles, then tons for the next 400 miles. Then, it is rare for there to more than 10 miles separating good sources until you start getting near Mount Shasta. There is a 30 mile waterless stretch up on Hat Creek Rim (one of the most stunning short hikes) and the lack of good water continues until you near Central Oregon. Then, good again.

1. A 15 degree will be fine for the start, but by the time you reach NorCal, it might be too much. It is cold at night in the desert and the Sierras. You won't be able to swap it out for a liner as you might on the AT.

2. The only places you might need boots are in the Sierra and Washington, if you're going through in later September. Take a look at Tha Wookies 2003 PCT hike to see what October in Washington might be like. Whether or not you need them for the Sierras is a personal choice. I think trail runners are fine. You'll be fording so much that your feet will be soaked all the time. The main advantage of boots is that they protect your feet more when you posthole and make it easier to kick steps with.

3. Crampons will only be helpful if you are planning to cross the Sierra in March. If you do decide to bring them, go with the real thing, not little spikes designed for walking out to your car in winter.

4. I would mail it to KM. North of Campo, there is only one real spot where you might need it, and that is up on the Desert Divide (oh-my-God beautiful) and Fuller ridge near Idyllwild. Check with the PCT-L in April about this.

[Singletrack]

Chris, Spiritwalker, Wookie, if one reached KM before the snow was passable, (for a non experienced snow hiker) could one get to a large enough town to purchase supplies, and send out mail drops, lets say for the next six weeks? Also, if I held up at Kennnedy Meadows for 2 weeks, what is the possibility of leap frogging North to hike for that time, then return to KM. One more, Chris, how did your ULA Zenith handle 7-8 litres of water, food and gear. Thanks.

[chris]

Kennedy Meadows is in the middle of nowhere, but you can probably get a hitch or a lift (the friendliest people live in the middle of nowhere) out to Ridgecrest, which is a large town near Death Valley. It will be stinking hot there in June. Kennedy Meadows is a store with showers and laundry machines. Nothing else. Wonderful place for a day or two off. I stayed only for the day, as I was itching to get into the Sierra.

I wouldn't flip up north, as there will still be a lot of snow all the way to Canada. However, you could probably force the area north of Chester for a bit if you were really keen. I do think it would be better to either start later that the KOP or to take downtime in other areas. The Agua Dulce area is a good one, as LA is close. It took me about 10 days at a reasonable pace to get to Kennedy Meadows from Agua Dulce. Or, build in the extra time to deal with physical problems arising from the heat. I didn't have any, but knew those who did.

The Zenith was overloaded with 10 days of supplies coming out of Kennedy Meadows. I barely got everything in it. 5 days is about its limit. The Fusion (which replaced the Zenith) will probably be able to handle a little more. With desert gear and 3 days of supplies, it could manage the 8 liters of water ok (not comfy, but ok). It was at its best with 2.5 L and 3 days of food, or less. I'm a big fan of Brian's new P1 and that is what I'd recommend for the PCT (although I'm told the P2 and Fusion are excellent packs).

[Spirit Walker]

Don't skip the Sierras or wait two weeks, it really isn't necessary, unless it is a really high snow year. A lot of PCT hikers have little snow experience before they go. Read the Mountaineers book, "Freedom of the Hills" to learn the basics of ice axe use. When you are in a safe area, if you can't get training before you go, learn how to self-arrest on a gentle slope with a long area to slide. The important thing is to learn to use the axe so you don't fall at all. If you are there before mid-June, I would recommend wearing boots so you can kick steps. If you are there mid-June, many others will have been through before you so you can walk in their footsteps.

What I found in dealing with the snow and snow melt -- it is scary, but it is also doable. And I speak as someone with a heightened fear of falling. I come from the Arizona desert, so never had to deal with snow and ice until we were on the CDT in Montana in early June. I couldn't take a mountaineering class as there is too little snow where we live. So on the trail I learned how to dig in my axe to keep from falling. I learned how to gauge streams to find safe places to cross. For the first month we had off and on snow. I fell a few times, but survived. When I was going through the Sierras I was frequently terrified, but because I had learned to be careful, I never fell. Now I would love to do it again, in a high snow year to see how that is different from the intermittent challenge I faced. There is a lot of fun in learning how to confront your fears and deal with the challenges of snow and water crossings. It is doable. Most of the time you are just slogging across snowcups. Unless you are very early, you will probably be able to follow other hikers' footsteps, so navigation won't be that big a deal. I wouldn't start before June 1, but if you start at the Kick Off Party, you will probably arrive around June 10-15 with the rest of the crowd. There is logic to their timing. Just don't race it.

[Mags]

One great method for going over the high passes is to do it in the late morning - early afternoon. Going over the slopes in the early morning means that the passes are often icy.

If you go over the passes when the snow is slushy it makes for much easier going.

Personally, I think any type of crampons are overkill for the typical thru-hiking season.

One last warning: Be careful following other thru-hiker tracks! They will sometimes be going the wrong way! I did come through somewhat earlier than most thru-hikers; suspect people who come through later than me will have less snow and a more defined path.

MD - thanks for the kind words in my guest book!

[Mountain Dew]

Chris ... Mags...anybody feel free to answer here...

1. Did you past PCT hikers use one bag the entire trip ? If so what temp. rating. If not then where did you change out and what was the other bags temp. rating ?

2. What is the most days food you had to carry at one time ?

3. What is the most liters of water you carried at any given time. Please don't use the G-word either ! (gallons)

4. Chris...did you say that there were lots of fording in the sierras ? God, i hope I read that wrong for this Texans sake !

5. at what point is rain gear needed ?

Now that i have read Mags online journal of his PCT hike it's time for Chris' !!! Goodtimes !
Feel free to chime in with other advice anybody ... :clap

[chris]

Some thoughts:

1) I used a Western Mountaineering Highlight 40 degree bag with a silk liner for the entire length. I was cold for about half the nights in southern California when the temps dipped to below freezing (even with my clothes on). In the Sierras, I was cold until reaching Sierra City (about 400 miles). Part of this had to do with my sleeping high out of the valleys (bears) and also to the very flat, 3 year old Z-rest I was using. From Sierra City north, I was fine. But, I finished in August and had nice weather in Washington. In retrospect, If you only take one bag, I'd make it a 20. While I had some nights in the 50s, most nights were in the upper 40s. Up high in SoCal and the Sierra I had some freezing nights.

2) I carried 10 days at one point, from Kennedy Meadows to VVR. The most common resupply run is in the 100 mile range, although in SoCal they are a bit closer (40, 60, 80). It is possible to resupply out of the Sierra, but I think this to be an aesthetically poor choice. You'll probably find that you'll adjust well enough so that a 100 mile resupply leg takes you 4+: Four days and some snacks.

3) The most I ever carried was 7.2 L. I carried that amount a lot. My standard water haul coming out of a source was 4.4 L. I'd usually make it to the next source with a little water left over, so I wasn't optimal. I don't use a hydration system, by the way. I also was able to hike during the heat of the day and this was due in part (or caused) by large water consumption. There are small things that you can do to help the water issue. First, cook only at a source. Never haul water to cook with. Second, don't sleep at a source. You'll end up having to stop early or to hike really late to do so. Third, hike early and hike late. Between 6 am and 9 am the temps are really pleasant. Put in 8 miles. Between 6 pm and 8 pm the temps are also nice. Crank out another 6. That makes 14 miles in the cool times with low water consumption. Putting in another 6 miles during the hotter 9-6 hours makes for a respectable PCT day.

4) Yes, lots of fords. Fords are the most dangerous part of hiking, particularly solo hiking. Between Whitney and the northern border of Yosemite, you've got a lot. However, there are only, it seems, 3 potentially bad (i.e, you might die) fords: Evolution (deep but slow), Bear (fast, rocky, no warning in book), and something whose name escapes me in Yosemite (my pants exploded). Leave your shoes on. When in doubt, ford rather than try to rock hop. Accept wet and cold feet for two weeks. Neoprene socks for the Sierras wouldn't be foolish.

5) I'd carry some form of rain gear always. In 2003 a late spring storm put the smack down on the main pack in the San Jacintos (about 180 miles in). In SoCal you could probably get away with a wind shirt and a lot of heart. In the Sierra, something a little bigger might help the safety margin. NorCal is generally pretty stinking hot (but no humidity!). Oregon and Washington got pissed on for most of the thruhikers this year. I had stunning weather, with only 3 out of 105 days having some precip.

[Spirit Walker]

Chris, good post. It sums it up nicely. We also carried between a gallon and a gallon and a half (4 - 8 l.) for most of southern California and parts of northern California and Oregon. (Remember, the dry sections don't end at the Sierras.) They are all noted in the data book though, so you can be prepared. You get used to the weight. As to stream crossings - they were actually scarier for us than the snow, mostly because we hit the Sierras during a hot spell when all the snow was melting at once. Even little rock hops became serious fords. But the only really bad ones were Bear, Evolution and Kerrick Canyon in northern Yosemite. If the water is high, try to cross early in the morning. Bear Creek has an alternate crossing upstream that is wider but shallower. Don't go downstream to cross. Folks one week behind us had no problem at all with any of the crossings. As to raingear - we got rained on (all day drizzle) on day 2. We got snowed on in the Sierras. Carry something light all the way. If nothing else, it makes a good windshirt/bug protection. Our only long resupply stretch was the stretch between Lone Pine and Vermillion. We took an extra day to climb Whitney and then got tent bound one day because of snow, so we were glad to be carrying extra food. If you are willing to pay, Muir Ranch is near the trail and is a good spot for resupply. Some people go to Bishop or Independence to resupply, but it means a long walk out and iffy hitch. The hitch to and from Cottonwood Pass was slow, but doable into Lone Pine. Since we needed to dump some of the extra weight we had picked up at Kennedy Meadows, it was a necessary side trip for us. YMMV

[Mountain Dew]

GREAT ADVICE THUS FAR GUYS...

1. While reading the book by Karen Berger , hiking the triple crown, she goes on and on about how much smarter the black bears are on the PCT vs. the A.T., but this seems ridiculous to me. What was your experiences with bears on the PCT and what have you heard from others who have hiked the PCT about bears ? Both trails have very crowded parks with the AT having the edge with two of the three most crowded in the nation not to mention N.J. has the most dense bear poplulation in the continental U.S. so i'm sortof baffled as to how she came up with this idea of the "smart bear" being on the PCT. oh.... what did you do with your bear bag once up high enough to be out of bear "range" with no trees to use ?

2. What exactly is light rain gear ? I'm thinking about using a rain jacket/ pants combo the entire trip. Is that reasonable ?

3. How hard is the Mt. Whitney climb and did you camp on top of it ?

ps...I'll most likely be doing alot of the hike with Baltimore Jack, Jester, and Greenman. I can't out run Greenman and I'm not sure about Jester so I guess Jack will have to do if a bear decides he wants some hiker meat. :banana

[Pencil Pusher]

Pencil Pusher... Something tells me that LW and myself wouldn't make good hiking partners...plus I'm a dedicated go heavy hiker.
See the love you're missing out on? Lone Wolf digs going heavy, that's all he talks about! Heavy pack this, heavy pack that... you just need to see beyond the beard and attitude to see the beauty;)

[chris]

1. If you put your food in the trees in the Sierras, the bears will probably eventually get it. A bear in SoCal got food out of a bear locker a few hours before I passed through. Now, I had absolutely no bear problems. Why? Cooked in the afternoon, hiked on. Only rarely did I stay in established campgrounds, even in SoCal. I slept with my food, and was prepared to defend it from a bear, except when a functional bear locker was close (on the rare time I was in something established). In the Sierra I tended to sleep high, out of the valleys. In NorCal, I also slept high, but that was for scenic reasons. I don't think bears are much of an issue on the PCT as long as you are not daft or unlucky. I think Berger is being a little biased, perhaps.

2. That is perfectly reasonable. Light would mean something like the Frogg Toggs suit. Carry no other pants other than the Frogg Toggs, along with thermal tights.

3. Whitney is a cush walk (not a climb at all from the PCT side), with a little snow up high. Altitude will probably zap you. To shorten the climb, you could start (as I did) at Guitar Lake and freeze (but you'll be up by 9). Very, very scenic at Guitar. Many people start lower down at Crabtree meadows. I wouldn't. Instead, stash stuff in the bear locker there and then camp up at Guitar. Get up early, summit, come down, nap, move on (if you want). There is a truck load of a space up top to camp, but I probably wouldn't do so. It is going to be asscold, and you might have some serious lightning problems. But, the sunset and morning sunrise would be rather sublime, looking out over the vast eastern desert, including Death Valley, the Owens Valley, the Panamints. Maybe it is a good idea after all.

Note 1. If you come across a bear, I wouldn't run, period.

Note 2. Be very, very, very careful with fire in SoCal. There were two PCT caused fires (big) in 2004. One from an alcohol stove, and the other from a hiker burning toilet paper.

Note 3. Get yourself the biggest brimmed hat you can find. If you can find an actual sombrero, that would be pretty ideal. And cool.

[tlbj6142]

Carry no other pants other than the Frogg Toggs, along with thermal tights.I would assume you mean after leaving the desert. I can't imagine wearing any type of rain gear pants in full sun.

I believe you had long pants (some sort of nylon I assume) until they fell apart in the stream crossing, correct? Did you hike in shorts across the desert or long pants?

[chris]

I would assume you mean after leaving the desert. I can't imagine wearing any type of rain gear pants in full sun.

I believe you had long pants (some sort of nylon I assume) until they fell apart in the stream crossing, correct? Did you hike in shorts across the desert or long pants?

A mistake on my part. Yes, indeed, do not wear rainpants in SoCal. You'll want light colored nylon or polyester pants in SoCal, along with a long sleeve shirt. Take an example from desert dwellers across the world. How often have you seen pictures of people in the Sahara wearing shorts and a t-shirt? There is a reason for the traditional dress of a Muslim.

From the northern boundary of Yosemite (my pants died in the Kerrick creek ford) to Canada I was in shorts. Before that, it was pants all the time. Shortly after Tahoe I switched to a T-shirt rather than my long sleeve shirt. I used almost no sunblock (except on face and neck in the Sierra, occasionally in SoCal), and when I made the switch I burned my skin was so lily white.

Do not (DO NOT) underestimate the sun in SoCal. It will rip you apart if you try the sun block and exposed skin route. Jardine is rather off on this, I think.

[tlbj6142]

I used almost no sunblock (except on face and neck in the Sierra, occasionally in SoCal), and when I made the switch I burned my skin was so lily white.You didn't wear a sun hat either, correct? Just that rag on your head? Wasn't that hot?

[Spirit Walker]

Don't run from the bears! You don't need to be scared of them, just cautious. Actually, I agree that Sierras bears are smarter/more habituated than eastern bears -- simply because they aren't hunted out there. They have no fear of humans and have learned early how easy it is to get food from backpackers and car campers. The rangers would rather remove the hikers than the bears. If a bear gets your food, you will be fined. In the southern Sierras you can camp where there are bear boxes. In the northern Sierras you should hang your food if at all possible - though chances are they will soon be requiring bear canisters of all hikers and not just short term hikers. I've run into several hikers who slept with their food and had bears tear open their tents to get at their pillows. That said, when we were so high the trees were useless for hanging, we slept with ours and had no problems. We saw no bears until Section P in northern California, though they were seen by others near us south of Walker Pass. When thruhikers go through the Sierras, it is usually too early for the bears to be active up high, though you may run into them in the valleys and certainly if you camp in Lyall Canyon or the first dozen miles north of Tuolemne Meadows. The rangers will likely ask you if you are carrying a bear canister. Find out where they are required before you go so you don't get fined. When we hiked only JMT hikers were required to carry them, but they asked us whether we were hanging our food. We answered, honestly, "We are carrying rope." We did hang when possible.

I wore long pants (REI zip offs) when the bugs were bad and when it was cold up in Washington and in the Sierras, but otherwise I wore shorts most of the time on the PCT. Nylon pants are just too hot for me. I tan easily and rarely remember to use sun screen. Protection from the poison oak might have been helped by better leg covering, but I never did get a really bad dose of that. I had no special rain pants. The nylon worked fine, even in snow. I did wear a wide brimmed hat for protection from the sun - aside from more wrinkles, I don't seem to have suffered any long term harm. I know some hikers carried rain pants and used them in the evenings to protect against bugs and if the rain was really cold, but wore shorts the rest of the time. How careful you want to be depends on your skin type and history. On the AT you don't get enough sun though the canopy for it to be a problem. The desert is different.

The climb up Whitney isn't hard unless there is a lot of snow/ice. The trail has switchbacks. We ended up turning around 2/3 of the way up because a storm was coming in and the ice was so hard I couldn't kick steps in it. I have climbed it in summer and it is an easy climb. It is possible to sleep up top, but very cold and windy and with no water. There are stone wall 'shelters' about 3' high for protection from the wind. A friend who did it said, "It sounds better than it was." I don't know whether you are allowed to sleep in the buildings up there. When I hiked the JMT several people were killed when lightning struck the building and created a fireball inside. I wouldn't recommend it.

[chris]

You didn't wear a sun hat either, correct? Just that rag on your head? Wasn't that hot?

I wore a big sun hat, with a bandanna underneath, everyday through SoCal. In the Sierras, I mostly wore, but sometimes just had the bandana. By the time I got to NorCal, I was mostly in the bandanna, although if I encountered a longish shadeless stretch, I'd put the hat back on. I loved my hat and should have brought it with me on the GDT.

[Mags]

I used the same sun protection in the desert and High Sierra I use in Colorado.

1) Shirt - a long sleeve polyester dress shirt I bought at the local thrift store. Dries quickly, great sun (and bug) protection, had a pocket for my camera. $4

2) A wide brimmed hat. At the time, wore A $10 Target special. Good sun protection!
(I now use a Tilley. A bit of a splurge, but this hat is indestructable and the stif wide brim is great for rain.)

3) I hiked in shorts. I have an olive complexion and tan very easily. Since I was walking all day (as opposed to sitting down) my legs rec'd minimal exposure. Did not put any sunscreen on my face or neck..my beard covered that up nicely!

As with Chris, always wore a bandanna. In large sections with shade, often just wore the bandanna.

[gravityman]

In large sections with shade, often just wore the bandanna.


OH MY!

PUT SOME PANTS ON!

hehehehehe

Gravity

[wacocelt]

MT DEW!!! You're planning a hike with Greenman and didn't invite Tripp and I?! Our invitation had better have been 'lost in the mail' or I'm comin' huntin' for you son...

[tarbubble]

i don't have any experience with East Coast bears, but i have plenty of experience with California bears. The Sierra Nevada bears are insatiable, food-stealing monsters, but stealth techniques work pretty well because the habituated bears keep going back to where the pickings are easy (established campsites). it's not the counterbalancing so much as it is the fact that they don't come visit you. once they're close enough, they can smell the food in the bag and most can easily get the bag down, so the trick is not attracting them at all. like others have said, cook dinner a few hours before you roll into camp. the bears are attracted by the smell of your cooking. they are also attracted by campfires, but less so.

there are a number of PCT areas where bear canisters are required, but the scuttlebutt i have consistently heard is that rangers go easier on PCT thru-hikers (but not JMT hikers, JMT hikers will generally get nailed for non-compliance). part of this is due to when PCT hikers usually go through - the bears are elsewhere, bothering the easier pickings at lower elevations. the bears won't go through the snowy passes unless they're desperate. be aware that Yosemite bears are practically their own species and should be avoided.

if a bear approaches your camp, signal that you are not afraid of it. throw rocks and brandish a large stick or a hiking pole. i have been bluff-charged once, but every time i have been successful in running a bear off. BUT, if the bear gets your food bag, surrender.

[Mountain Dew]

Pencil Pusher... Thanks for the attemtped love connection, BUT I can't see me and LW getting along as hiking partners. For that matter i'm not generally into female hikers at all. I prefer shaved legs and arm pits on my women thank you very much.
-------------------------------
Chris.... So you slept with your food bag if you were away from bear boxes and up high ? I'm hoping you didn't do that down low. If you cooked your dinner several miles before camp and then hiked on to find a place to camp you surely know that bears can still smell your food in your pack although maybe no quit as well. Baltimore Jack once slept next to me in a full shelter with his food laid out right next to him because it was storming really bad. Me and several other hikers told him that he was getting the chance to see just how tough the bear was first if one appeared. I was tempted to sprinkle food in his hair , but the closeness of the situation made me think better of it.

I hiked the A.T. in a round top camo Gilligan hat and plan on using that in combo with a bandana to cover my neck etc. I've also been eye balling this retro 1970's pearl snap shirt that would set off the camo color of my hat ! :D oh and zip off hiker pants.
---------------------------------------------------
1. do hikers wear gaiters at all ? If so were they short or tall ones ?
2. When do most hikers start carrying the ice axe
3. when do most hikers start to carry bug spray ? I'm not quit sure if i understand this , but i read where the bad bug season starts in the high sierras. Explain that to me if true. I've always thought and known high footage to mean less/no bugs.
4. radios...people that carry them have much luck with stations ? I found that the A.T. was hit and miss.

Chris, i've been reading your journal every night...good reading. I'm picking up little things from that to add to my hiking knowledge from the A.T. Man Glory was like a swamp gnat or so it seems thus far ! lol
thanks to all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap

[chris]

Chris.... So you slept with your food bag if you were away from bear boxes and up high ? I'm hoping you didn't do that down low.

Chris, i've been reading your journal every night...good reading. I'm picking up little things from that to add to my hiking knowledge from the A.T. Man Glory was like a swamp gnat or so it seems thus far ! lol
thanks to all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap

I tended to sleep with my food, regardless (unless there was a bear box). I never threw a bear line. In far SoCal, no worries. Once you hit the mountains around LA, worry a little but standard procedures seem to work. In the Sierra, sleep high and cold. In NorCal, where I actually saw more bears, I still slept with my food. I was in stealth, or pseudo-stealth, sites every night and would try to sleep high when I could (most of the time). Sometimes I'd get caught on a mountain side. My general experience is that non-habituated black bears are cowardly by nature. A genetic trait, perhaps, left over from when Mr. Grizz roamed the land in more abundance. A black bear (non-habituated) might threaten, but is unlikely (I thought, and still do) to try to physically take your food from you. Of course, I could have been lucky. Note that I hung my food every night on the AT, even after the PCT. I hung my food on the GDT, as El Grizz was around.

Glory was tough for me. I like her and care for her a lot, which put me in an odd situation last summer.

Actual short answers to your questions.

1. No, almost never after the first hundred miles or so. That being said, I did see a few with them on, mainly with the reason being to keep sand out of their shoes. But, if you are hiking in heavy-mesh runners, this can't be done. Besides, you'll want to keep your feet as ventilated and cool as possible, and putting a big piece of fabric over them doesn't help. In the Sierra, I could see using them if you also switched into boots.

2. Most start at Kennedy Meadows. You'll see one or two being carried through the San Jacintos, but this isn't normally necessary.

3. I'd start carrying at Kennedy Meadows. The problem is snow melt: Snow melts and creates large bogs, especially around 7000 ft. Perfect spawning grounds. Now, I went through starting June 10 and had few bugs all the way to Oregon. People a week or more behind me got zapped in the Sierra and some in NorCal. I got hammered across part of Oregon, until clearing Mount Jefferson, about 2/3 of the way across. Carry some bug dope at Kennedy Meadows, but probably not before.

4. People do carry them on the PCT, but I didn't and no one I hiked around did. The word from others was that reception is good in SoCal due to the presence of LA. I don't know of many people who got reception in the Sierra. Once you clear Lake Tahoe, NorCal is pretty damn remote, but I've heard of people getting non-Jesus stations from time to time. You might have a shot in parts of Oregon and Washington. If you like the radio, I'd bring one at least up to Mojave (last real place you can mail out stuff before Yosemite. You can mail at KM, but you have to pay.) and mail it ahead to Tuolumne Meadows. Of course, from Tuolumne Meadows north to Tahoe is pretty remote as well.