View Full Version : Mattress Advice
Gimme Shelter
08-21-2010, 02:05
Would like some mattress input. Planning a 2011 thru hike. Thanks
Kookabay custom air mattress.
Cabin Fever
08-21-2010, 06:36
There are basically three types of mattresses - foam, self-inflating and you-inflate. Foam is the lightest and easiest to work with, but provides the least comfort. I am talking about Thermarest foam, not blue Walmart foam. If you are a side sleeper, you probably won't like it. Self inflating is probably the most popular. There is a wide variety of these by many companies. The most popular model of is probably the orange Thermarest. The you-inflate style mattresses are the most comfortable and usually the bulkiest. These are your Big Agnes and Thermarest NeoAir mattresses.
If I could stand it, I would carry foam Thermarest because it's light and easy to throw down and lay on at any time. However, I am a chronic side sleeper. I tried a Big Agnes once in the store and loved it. Been loving it ever since.
One weight saving tactic is to carry a 3/4 length pad in the summer. This means your feet will either hang off the end or you can put something under your feet. This is usually not a good idea during the winter because you will lose a lot of heat by not having any insulation under your feet.
Your best bet is to go to an outfitter and try all three and see what works best for you. Better yet, find friends that have these and try them overnight.
There's my two cents.
Unless you have been sleeping on the floor for years and loving it, you will probably get more rest on one of the thicker inflatable mattresses. The NeoAir is the latest and greatest of those.
The you-inflate style mattresses are the most comfortable and usually the bulkiest. These are your Big Agnes and Thermarest NeoAir mattresses.
Let's elaborate on bulk. Yes, they are thicker when inflated. This can be problematic in small shelters with highly sloping sidewalls. When packed though, they are the least bulky compared to a foam or self inflating pad with the same R-value.
MkBibble
08-21-2010, 11:49
There are basically three types of mattresses - foam, self-inflating and you-inflate. ... The most popular model of is probably the orange Thermarest. The you-inflate style mattresses are the most comfortable and usually the bulkiest. These are your Big Agnes and Thermarest NeoAir mattresses ... I tried a Big Agnes once in the store and loved it. Been loving it ever since.
Your best bet is to go to an outfitter and try all three and see what works best for you. Better yet, find friends that have these and try them overnight.
There's my two cents.
I did the same and ended up with the thermarest self inflating and I love it. But, if I had it to do over, I would probably choose the NeoAir. It's lighter and probably more comfortable.
ChinMusic
08-21-2010, 12:06
Unless you have been sleeping on the floor for years and loving it, you will probably get more rest on one of the thicker inflatable mattresses. The NeoAir is the latest and greatest of those.
I agree. At age 63, IMO you will like the Neo or Big Agnes Air Core. Younger folks can sleep on thin pads. I can't.
I used the BA Insulated Air Core for years and moved to the Neo this year for the weight and bull savings. I have slept just as well on the Neo.
A thin closed-cell pad will be needed under the Neo for temps much below freezing. The Insulated Air Core can easily go to the rated 15 degrees for me.
If I were doing a thru next year I would go with the Neo and a 3/4 section of closed cell like the Z-Rest. Any cut closed cell would be just as good.
Cabin Fever
08-21-2010, 12:42
Let's elaborate on bulk. Yes, they are thicker when inflated. This can be problematic in small shelters with highly sloping sidewalls. When packed though, they are the least bulky compared to a foam or self inflating pad with the same R-value.
I was referring more to weight. Even though the NeoAir is pretty light. I personally have avoided the NeoAir after laying on one at the store. I find it highly possible that it could leak. My BA Insulated Air Core has been going four years strong.
Outdoor76
08-22-2010, 22:10
We'll be carrying the new mattress that's ONLY 9oz and packs up the size of a can of Redbull. It also handpumps, so no damp breath in it ...best part.... $100 !!! Its gonna be a Neo-Air killer. Two 200lb guys can jump all ove one fully inflated and it won't burst. AWESOME!!
Check us out in Franklin on your thru-hike. We're a new shop opening this September right on Main St - just a short walk from all Ronnie's hotels. We'll be having lots of awesome services and give-aways for thru-hikers. Come check us out. www.outdoor76.com ...the website will be up this week. We're curently active on the social network sites.
I was referring more to weight. Even though the NeoAir is pretty light. I personally have avoided the NeoAir after laying on one at the store. I find it highly possible that it could leak. My BA Insulated Air Core has been going four years strong.
After reading so many comments like these about the NeoAir I was expecting something super paper thin when I ordered mine. I had laid on one last year at a store briefly, but at that point I didn't know enough to really know much about it except it was alot of $$$ and I still had a lot of gear to buy! So I moved on. When I got mine in I was shocked. I don't feel like it is near as thin as everyone makes it out to be. IMO, it seems to be plenty thick and quite durable. I have just as much faith in the NeoAir as I do in my Exped SynMat or my self inflators. The way I see it, they are all airpads and they all have potential to pop, so I take enough care to clear the area in which I will use the pad before I lay the pad down... Other than this, I would say the key to using an airpad is to be sure that you have the correct repair kit with you just in case.
Don't take my posts wrong, I am not challenging your opinion, just expressing mine. :)
For what it's worth - in 2009, I purchased a NeoAir in Damascus and enjoyed it all the way north to Katahdin. Earlier this year I hiked with it another 245 miles on both the AT and Long Trail. The NeoAir has performed perfectly through all of this - not a single leak!
I do carry a Neoair repair kit, but haven't even opened it yet.
We'll be carrying the new mattress that's ONLY 9oz and packs up the size of a can of Redbull. It also handpumps, so no damp breath in it ...best part.... $100 !!! Its gonna be a Neo-Air killer. Two 200lb guys can jump all ove one fully inflated and it won't burst. AWESOME!!
Klymit Inertia X-Frame.
I really want to see the reviews on this because I seriously have doubts about a pad with giant holes in it. Unfortunately it wouldn't work for me anyway since I use a quilt, but it might be useful for sleeping bag folks.
I thought that was the pad they were talking about. I would hate to see two 200 lb grown men jumping on that thing. On the first bounce they would get tangled up in it and quite possibly rip it to pieces... at least from the looks of it...
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu88/STICK13/klymit-200.jpg
It is an interesting thought though. The spaces are supposed to let the sleeping bag loft so that the sleeping bag will provide the insulation from underneath. But I agree, for quilt users as well as side sleepers I don't see this pad working out too well. We'll see though... For now I will stick with my Exped and my NeoAir.
Sarcasm the elf
08-22-2010, 23:48
When deciding, make sure to take into account how you treat your gear. The inflatable pads are only good until their first pinhole puncture (yes I know you can patch them, but that's not my point). The foam pads aren't as comfortable but they are more reliable.
My absentmindedness and general lack of coordination have destroyed two inflatable pads so far, and I'm sticking with foam at the moment. Many more competent hikers have had good luck with their NeoAir's.
ChinMusic
08-22-2010, 23:53
When deciding, make sure to take into account how you treat your gear. The inflatable pads are only good until their first pinhole puncture. The foam pads don't provide the greatest night's sleep, but they are more reliable.
If your trail name is anything like Crash Bang (2004) then stick with the closed cells.
The inflatables take care. You can't just throw them down next to a campfire and expect them to hold up very long. If you like to stay in shelters you have to be careful about splinters. I don't stay in many shelters. It surprises me the success some folks have had with their inflatables in shelters. I know those floors are mostly polished smooth,.....but still.
Cabin Fever said:
"Even though the NeoAir is pretty light. I personally have avoided the NeoAir after laying on one at the store. I find it highly possible that it could leak."
I sort of agree with multiple people here --- Tagless, in that I thru-hiked the whole trail this year and used a Neo-air throughout. Nary a leak, no problem. And I spent most nights in shelters, FWIW, didn't use the tent very often.
But as ChinMusic said, I agree that it's good to take some care with an inflatable. I used a Gossamer Gear 1/8" thinlight ccf pad underneath my Neo-air for the whole trip, and got in the habit of wiping any particulates off the ccf pad as I rolled it up each morning. The ccf pad was initially for thermal protection as well, but I kept it throughout to protect the inflatable. I'd go that route again, and in fact plan to on another long trip next year. In fact, I've almost always had some sort of ccf pad underneath whatever inflatable I've used, and have never had a leak.
At age 63 it seems a no-brainer to me to take some sort of inflatable. The two things I find are fairly consistent as an age-differentiator are air mattresses and trekking poles --- older folk (and I sadly count myself in that company) mostly use both. Just take some care with the inflatable and do take a light, limited patch repair kit.
When deciding, make sure to take into account how you treat your gear.
Of course. That's exactly why I want an inflatable. You see, stuff hanging off my pack always seems to get snag on any branch I have to duck under or squeeze by. I want the inflatable pad to help get rid of this problem. Also, there are a couple nearby places that I'd like to camp and it'd be easier to get by the rangers if I have a small pack with no visible pad.
Outdoor76
08-23-2010, 08:42
I thought that was the pad they were talking about. I would hate to see two 200 lb grown men jumping on that thing. On the first bounce they would get tangled up in it and quite possibly rip it to pieces... at least from the looks of it...
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu88/STICK13/klymit-200.jpg
It is an interesting thought though. The spaces are supposed to let the sleeping bag loft so that the sleeping bag will provide the insulation from underneath. But I agree, for quilt users as well as side sleepers I don't see this pad working out too well. We'll see though... For now I will stick with my Exped and my NeoAir.
Not gonna lie ...I walked by this thing for 3 days at OR thinking
a.) too expensive
b.) too cold
c.) not durable
Finally on the last day of the show I had time to check it out. It blew me away. Their rationale for comfort makes lots of sense. Even if you're a side sleeper, this pad keeps your body completely off the ground. They said that a couple testers actually found that the open pockets stayed warmer than the pad itself - effectively feeling warmer than a pad with an R under 1. You have to remember that RV isn't tested with an opposing surface that conducts heat. And yes...we jumped all over it inflated and it didn't flinch. I will own one without hesitation.
Hopefully by the time you guys get to Franklin, we'll have a few thoroughly tested to give you a legit review.
During my thru at age 66 I used a full length Therma-Rest. Glad I took it. Met several hikers who switched to a lighter mattress and were sory they did. I slept well on it and it stood up well. :sun
Bare Bear
08-23-2010, 10:59
As always in gear, find out what works for you. Borrow and try out several different ones and you will quickly find what you like. Best on your journey.
Outdoor76
08-23-2010, 11:31
As always in gear, find out what works for you. Borrow and try out several different ones and you will quickly find what you like. Best on your journey.
It probably won't do much good for thru-hikers, but we'll have a couple to rent.
skinewmexico
08-23-2010, 16:53
I think the best value and most comfort in a pad is the POE Ether Thermo 6. You can buy several of them for the price of a Neoair, and you don't have to drink that Thermarest kool-aid!
had same dilemma, started with air mattress went to full length z rest, then 3/4 z rest, ordered the large neoair, (love it) for the weight and amount of good rest will probably carry large neoair, will also probably carry the 3/4 length z rest to sit on and take breaks on. neither really wiegh much. but both have different advantages, try them all and decide GOOD LUCK hope this helps
ChinMusic
08-23-2010, 17:16
had same dilemma, started with air mattress went to full length z rest, then 3/4 z rest, ordered the large neoair, (love it) for the weight and amount of good rest will probably carry large neoair, will also probably carry the 3/4 length z rest to sit on and take breaks on. neither really wiegh much. but both have different advantages, try them all and decide GOOD LUCK hope this helps
Those are the two I would take early in the season. The Z-Rest would add warmth under the Neo for those subfreezing nights. I prob would ditch the Z-Rest at the same time I ditch my winter gear.
If I were one to stay in many shelters I might hang onto the Z-Rest for the tasks you mentioned plus protecting the Neo from splinters.
Not gonna lie ...I walked by this thing for 3 days at OR thinking
a.) too expensive
b.) too cold
c.) not durable
Finally on the last day of the show I had time to check it out. It blew me away. Their rationale for comfort makes lots of sense. Even if you're a side sleeper, this pad keeps your body completely off the ground. They said that a couple testers actually found that the open pockets stayed warmer than the pad itself - effectively feeling warmer than a pad with an R under 1. You have to remember that RV isn't tested with an opposing surface that conducts heat. And yes...we jumped all over it inflated and it didn't flinch. I will own one without hesitation.
Hopefully by the time you guys get to Franklin, we'll have a few thoroughly tested to give you a legit review.
That is a crazy-looking thing! I'll be interested to hear how it works in practice. For one thing, it would take a lot less air to inflate, and while I enjoy the comfort of the Big Agnes mattresses, blowing the up is not very much fun.
Harrison Bergeron
08-23-2010, 18:00
I tried everything REI carries a few weeks ago and finally went with the new Thermarest plus, in the short length. I really liked the BA, but not the weight or how much work it was to blow up. The 1.5" Thermarest Plus was surprisingly comfortable, only took a few breaths to firm up, and the short version only weighs a pound.
The Neoair wasn't TOO bad to blow up and was very comfortable. If my hike was two years away, I'd wait and see what the reports are next year. But like others have said, it looked a little flimsy to me, and I'd like to hear someone say they slept like a baby on it at 20 degrees. To my mind, there's not much point in a 9oz pad that packs like a Red Bull can -- but you need to drag around a 10 oz blue foam pad to insulate it.
The great thing about the NeoAir is that during the warm and quite possibly even cooler months I carry supreme comfort with weight and size advantages unlike any other pad. I say this considering that most of my months in the South East are warm / cool enough for the NeoAir alone. However, for those few months that are truly cold (and to us that is temps as low as single digits or if we are lucky (real lucky) close to 0* F. In this case I can always take my much heavier but effective Exped SynMat (OK, just a little more than twice the weight of the Neo ~ 13.8 oz vs 31 oz). Or I can take my NeoAir with my (sons) 10 oz Z Lite and still save almost 10 oz from the Exped. However, I would be making the sacrifice in carrying that large pad.
I have found that everything in backpacking is give and take. There is not 1 single piece of gear that is perfect for everything (at least if you get out for more than 1 season). There is always give and take. The same goes for blowing up the pads. I may have to puff hard for about 18 - 20 breaths to inflate my pad, but then I am left with a plush, super comfy bed rather than a stiff piece of foam lying limp on the ground... besides, what's 18 - 20 extra puffs after I have been huffing and puffing all day long (although not as much because my pad is much smaller and lighter than other alternatives). At least with these huffs and puffs, I can take as long as I want because I am not in a race to blow up my pad the fastest...
Off subject, but the same can be said of alcohol stoves... A little give and take. This said, I love giving a little time and using my alky stoves and taking pleasure in enjoying using the stove... It's what I like, which is what the whole backpacking experience comes down to. What do you need out of the experience, and what are you willing to work a little at to benefit from...
Back on the NeoAir, it has an R Value of 2.5. I sure do wish I could translate that in terms of actual temperatures. (I will say this, my Exped's R Value is 4.9 and it is rated to 1* F.) In comparing the NeoAir to the Z Lite (large size), they both list the same weight, but the NeoAir will pack much smaller and the NeoAir actually has a higher R Value (2.2 vs 2.5). In comparison to the RidgeRest, again they have the same listed weight, but the NeoAir packs smaller while the RidgeRest has a slightly higher R Value (2.5 vs 2.6). However, in both cases the NeoAir is much more expensive and does have the potential to pop. This is again a price you pay for light weight luxury. you have to actually think about using the piece of gear rather than just throwing it down without concern.
Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts on the NeoAir as well as the thought process involving the NeoAir in comparison to other pads. I am not trying to contradict anyone elses comments, just provide healthy discussion... :)
PS... I am still not buying the super thin fragile rumor that surrounds the durability issues of the NeoAir. JMO...
(Watch, I will bust mine wide open after talking like this... :))
JonGalt said:
"If my hike was two years away, I'd wait and see what the reports are next year. But like others have said, it looked a little flimsy to me, and I'd like to hear someone say they slept like a baby on it at 20 degrees. To my mind, there's not much point in a 9oz pad that packs like a Red Bull can -- but you need to drag around a 10 oz blue foam pad to insulate it."
I'm not sure why any additional years of feedback would make a difference --- per previous entry, I slept on a size regular Neo-air thru-hiking the AT this year, and I've read accounts of others who have done so.
In terms of "sleeping like a baby at 20 degrees": it's hard to calibrate this stuff. I did indeed sleep well in March down south in a lot of snow to include some nights when the temps got down into the teens. At that point, however, I had a 1/8" Gossamer Gear thinlight pad under the neo-air, and a 1/4" GG thinlight pad over it, and a WM 20F rated bag and significant clothing on inside of that (including a down parka). So YMMV a lot based on such variables as well as individual metabolism etc etc. It's just really hard to know you'll be warm enough based on someone else's earnest claim that they were.
The weight comparison for me wasn't quite like what you listed, i.e., a 9 oz pad augmented with a 10 oz blue foam pad. I used the regular size neo-air, i.e., 72" x 20", which weighs 15.1 oz when a little stuff sack is included for it. The 1/8" thinlight ccf pad is 2.2 oz, and the 1/4" thinlight pad is 3.5 oz, for a total increase of 7.7 oz in quite cold weather, and just 2.2 oz for "most times". For me. I should add that I also carry 1/3 of another Gossamer Gear pad, their tri-fold nightlight torso pad. I carry just one third of one of those as a sit pad, but also used it to augment the thinlights as they aren't 72" long. 1/3 of a GG torso pad is about 1.1 more oz.
The trade-offs are a bit different if you go for the torso length Neo-air, and perhaps augment with a 1/8" thinlight cut down to torso length. I think that would be a pretty good combination, but I'll likely stick with the long pad since I already own it (originally purchased for my wife but she ultimately decided she wanted the one that's just a tad shorter ...).
It's true to going with a combination like this isn't cheap. Since I spent over four months on the trail this year, however, it seemed like a no-brainer to spend the money to have a decent sleep system. If I were just doing "coupla-week" trips and the like I most likely would have been happy with what I had been using.
I guess the bottom line for me is that the neo-air can be durable enough if some care is taken, and it can be warm enough (with a lot of caveats there) if augmented with ccf padding as appropriate to the temperatures. The GG thinlights in differing thicknesses offers a great option, IMO, to mix and match thicknesses of ccf to get the right mix for a given set of conditions.
Most times I don't care that my whiteblaze donation was never credited, but I would on occasion like to be able to edit ...
Replace the 7.7 oz number with 5.7 oz in this sentence:
"The 1/8" thinlight ccf pad is 2.2 oz, and the 1/4" thinlight pad is 3.5 oz, for a total increase of 7.7 oz in quite cold weather, and just 2.2 oz for "most times"."
With my apologies.
ChinMusic
08-23-2010, 21:40
Most times I don't care that my whiteblaze donation was never credited, but I would on occasion like to be able to edit ...
Replace the 7.7 oz number with 5.7 oz in this sentence:
"The 1/8" thinlight ccf pad is 2.2 oz, and the 1/4" thinlight pad is 3.5 oz, for a total increase of 7.7 oz in quite cold weather, and just 2.2 oz for "most times"."
With my apologies.
You're 53 and sleep on an 1/8" pad?
Great, make the rest of us look like wimps why don't ya........:p
Thanks Brian Le for the input on the GG ThinLight pads. I was actually wanting to get the ThinLight pads to use under the NeoAir. They seem to be somewhat small and flexible considering they are still ccf pads and compared to others. Also, I have heard (not experiences) that these pads are a good quality pad so they do well at insulating. of course different thicknesses, and different sleep systems, and different people....
CaptChaos
08-23-2010, 22:47
For what it is worth I like the Big Agnes sleep system. The first night out was great until my pad deflated. The second night out it lost it three times during the night.
So I can tell you from experience that at age 53 my hips can't take it on a flat surface. I can tell you that while it stayed inflated that it was like being home on a good bed. Now we will see if Big Agnes stands behind their warranty.
CaptChaos
ChinMusic
08-23-2010, 23:05
Now we will see if Big Agnes stands behind their warranty.
They are more than golden.
...Now we will see if Big Agnes stands behind their warranty.
CaptChaos
We've had great experiences with them.
I will say, though, that when an air mattress goes flat, you have nothing. That's one of the reasons I always carry a torso-length Z-rest with me as well.
The other reasons are that I sit on it whenever I stop, and when I'm cooking, etc. And it can function as my pack frame.
thermarest self inflatable 2" thick....i used to have a 3/4 length that was pretty thin and the 2" thick was the best thing ever...might not be superlight but its a good nights sleep vs a bad one...
Outdoor76
08-28-2010, 23:35
Re: the X-frame.
I had a good convo with a Klymit rep last week and we talked about the actual comfort of the X-frame in testing. One of the things most of us don't think about is the amount of loft that's lost in our bags when we lay on a continuously flat mattress. Knowing that this is by no means a claim that an X-frame is a 4-season matress, it should be warmer than expected because all the open spaces allow your bag to loft up in the gaps and do their job keeping you warm by trapping heat in air. If you were laying on an x-frame with no bag, the point is moot ..but just something to consider. The ones we laid on at OR felt just as cush as a neo ...and seriously 9oz at $100? There's a reaon this thing won best-in-show at OR this year.
We encourage all the '11 nobos to swing by Outdoor 76 in Franklin, NC next spring and try one out. We'll be stocking a bunch of them.
I'd also recommend the neo air. Its incredibly comfortable and light weight. At first sight I was concerned about durability as well, but I have used it many times without any issues. I highly recommend it.
XCskiNYC
08-29-2010, 22:41
The Big Agnes Clearview is a nice option: 72-inch mummy shape, 2.5-inch thick, 14 ozs, $50. It does take a minute to blow up, a couple minutes to deflate. And it's only rated down to 35F.
For cooler weather you can go with the BA Insulated Air Core (around $75) or similar matts from other mfrs like POE or put a blue foam pad under the Clearview.