I need a Sanity Check...Winding Stair Gap to Davenport Gap

[Daydream Believer]

It looks like I'm going to be able to pull off a longer section hike this Fall. :D I'm now in planning mode and want some feedback from the more experienced hikers on this forum to tell me if this is realistic. My hike is Oct 7-17th. 11 days.

I'm a fairly fit 47 year old woman but I live at sea level so it will be an adjustment. It will take me a few days to get tougher leg wise, etc..also. I have done Springer to Winding Stair so I know what I'm in for more or less but have never hiked this section...and the Smokies have a me a bit intimidated with the "must stay" at the shelters rule as well as the altitude and potential weather issues.

I should be carrying under 30 lbs fairly easily including my water, food, cold weather gear, etc... I've really lightened up my pack from my last trip where I went out with 36 lbs and nearly died of exhaustion the first few days around Unicoi Gap and Kelly Knob. :o

Here is my plan:

Day 1: Winding Stair Gap to Wayah Shelter 11 miles. Terrain does not look too bad to me on my elevation maps...but maps can be deceiving so any bad spots, fill me in.

Day 2: Wayah Shelter to Wesser Bald Shelter 10.6 miles. I may go farther if I feel like I can and there is a good place to stop but I don't see any water between Wesser and NOC.

Day 3: Wesser Bald Shelter to Sassafras Gap Shelter 12.6 miles. I know this climb out of NOC Nobo is hard. Looks horrible. I plan to stop and NOC and eat but not to stay over night and sleep soft. Will do that at Fontana. Is this realistic?

Day 4: Sassafras Gap Shelter to Brown Fork Gap Shelter 9.1 miles. I may push on to Cody Gap if I feel good but I believe I've read that this section between shelters is a tough one? So this can be an easier day after the climb out of NOC to rest a bit.

Day 5: Brown Fork Gap Shelter to Fontana Dam Visitor Center. 13 miles. I will call a shuttle and go to the Hike Inn or where ever my lodgings are. Resupply, eat and clean up. Move my vehicle to the other end of the Smokies and get a shuttle back if poss.

One note on my resupply. I have Celiac Disease so I cannot have wheat gluten so I have to plan my meals very well and carry what I can eat. If I screw up on this it can be miserable for me. That is why I will not resupply at NOC. I doubt they have much I can eat there anyway. It's a tough diet but I don't have much choice.

Day 6: Fontana Dam to Mollies Ridge Shelter 11.0 miles. Looks like a climb and I'll have 6 days worth of food but should still be no heavier than 30 lbs in my pack. I will be fairly fit by then also.

Day 7: Mollies Ridge Shelter to Derrick Knob Shelter 11.7 miles. Not too worried about this but it looks like it might be pretty up and down. My main concerns are if shelters are full. I hope to make my reservations tomorrow after you all do this sanity check for me. :)

Day 8: Derrick Knob Shelter to Mt. Collins Shelter 13.5 miles. I'm not sure how tough Clingman's Dome is? Is this a realistic distance for this time of year? My average speed on my last section was about 2 mph unless it was really steep.

Day 9: Mt Collins Shelter to Pecks Corner Shelter 14.9 miles...I am pretty sure I am up to this distance but can pull out at Newfound Gap if I'm sore or run out of good weather or it's taking longer than I hope. My concern again is with daylight or bad weather more than anything else.

Day 10: Pecks Corner Shelter to Cosby Knob Shelter 12.9 miles

Day 11: Cosby Knob to Standing Bear Farm or I40 parking lot..whichever works best 10 miles or so... It would be nice to stay at Standing Bear if they are open and head home the next morning. Home is about 8 hours from there.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

[Gray Blazer]

Who am I to tell you if you are sane or not? Looks good to me. As you pointed out, weather could be the issue. I wish you the best hike and good weather.

[shoe]

It looks like I'm going to be able to pull off a longer section hike this Fall. :D I'm now in planning mode and want some feedback from the more experienced hikers on this forum to tell me if this is realistic. My hike is Oct 7-17th. 11 days.

I'm a fairly fit 47 year old woman but I live at sea level so it will be an adjustment. It will take me a few days to get tougher leg wise, etc..also. I have done Springer to Winding Stair so I know what I'm in for more or less but have never hiked this section...and the Smokies have a me a bit intimidated with the "must stay" at the shelters rule as well as the altitude and potential weather issues.

I should be carrying under 30 lbs fairly easily including my water, food, cold weather gear, etc... I've really lightened up my pack from my last trip where I went out with 36 lbs and nearly died of exhaustion the first few days around Unicoi Gap and Kelly Knob. :o

Here is my plan:

Day 1: Winding Stair Gap to Wayah Shelter 11 miles. Terrain does not look too bad to me on my elevation maps...but maps can be deceiving so any bad spots, fill me in.

Day 2: Wayah Shelter to Wesser Bald Shelter 10.6 miles. I may go farther if I feel like I can and there is a good place to stop but I don't see any water between Wesser and NOC.

Day 3: Wesser Bald Shelter to Sassafras Gap Shelter 12.6 miles. I know this climb out of NOC Nobo is hard. Looks horrible. I plan to stop and NOC and eat but not to stay over night and sleep soft. Will do that at Fontana. Is this realistic?
This is a really long day. I personally find that climb miserable. And if you stuff yourself at the River's Edge restaraunt it's going to be even more miserable.

You could do a maildrop to the outfitters at the NOC. That would lessen your load by a couple of days of food.
Day 4: Sassafras Gap Shelter to Brown Fork Gap Shelter 9.1 miles. I may push on to Cody Gap if I feel good but I believe I've read that this section between shelters is a tough one? So this can be an easier day after the climb out of NOC to rest a bit.

Day 5: Brown Fork Gap Shelter to Fontana Dam Visitor Center. 13 miles. I will call a shuttle and go to the Hike Inn or where ever my lodgings are. Resupply, eat and clean up. Move my vehicle to the other end of the Smokies and get a shuttle back if poss.

One note on my resupply. I have Celiac Disease so I cannot have wheat gluten so I have to plan my meals very well and carry what I can eat. If I screw up on this it can be miserable for me. That is why I will not resupply at NOC. I doubt they have much I can eat there anyway. It's a tough diet but I don't have much choice.

Day 6: Fontana Dam to Mollies Ridge Shelter 11.0 miles. Looks like a climb and I'll have 6 days worth of food but should still be no heavier than 30 lbs in my pack. I will be fairly fit by then also.

Day 7: Mollies Ridge Shelter to Derrick Knob Shelter 11.7 miles. Not too worried about this but it looks like it might be pretty up and down. My main concerns are if shelters are full. I hope to make my reservations tomorrow after you all do this sanity check for me. :)

Day 8: Derrick Knob Shelter to Mt. Collins Shelter 13.5 miles. I'm not sure how tough Clingman's Dome is? Is this a realistic distance for this time of year? My average speed on my last section was about 2 mph unless it was really steep.

Day 9: Mt Collins Shelter to Pecks Corner Shelter 14.9 miles...I am pretty sure I am up to this distance but can pull out at Newfound Gap if I'm sore or run out of good weather or it's taking longer than I hope. My concern again is with daylight or bad weather more than anything else.

Day 10: Pecks Corner Shelter to Cosby Knob Shelter 12.9 miles

Day 11: Cosby Knob to Standing Bear Farm or I40 parking lot..whichever works best 10 miles or so... It would be nice to stay at Standing Bear if they are open and head home the next morning. Home is about 8 hours from there.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

Be sure to check the website for any shelter closures in the Smokies. I didn't see any currently listed but that could change the day before your hike.

Make sure that you call on Sept 7th to set up your reservations. I bet they get full real fast in October.

[bulldog49]

Assuming you in reasonable physical condition that looks like an easily accomplished itinerary. Myself, I don't share shoe's concern for your plans for day 3. That climb is indeed long but not all that steep. Each time I hiked it I was amazed how much easier it was than I imagined it would be. But you might want to hike further on day 2. Cook your dinner at Wesser Bald shelter and dry camp further along the trail.

[Gray Blazer]

Assuming you in reasonable physical condition that looks like an easily accomplished itinerary. Myself, I don't share shoe's concern for your plans for day 3. That climb is indeed long but not all that steep. Each time I hiked it I was amazed how much easier it was than I imagined it would be. But you might want to hike further on day 2. Cook your dinner at Wesser Bald shelter and dry camp further along the trail.

I agree about day 2. Hiking in the Nantahalas is pretty easy. You'll be at the firetower at Wesser before you know it (one of my favorite views on the whole AT).

[Daydream Believer]

Thanks all! I remembered that on my last hike, after Bly Gap, I was shocked at how easy the trail was compared to Georgia. The grades up were more gradual. I flew up Standing Indian Mtn and other than Albert Mtn (which I did the steep part alone at the end of a long day), it was very easy.

I will try to get more miles on day 2 then if I can. I would not mind an easier day wiht the climb out of NOC. I am very glad to hear it's not that steep.

I wondered if a mail drop at NOC made sense or not. It would save me a little bit but not a huge weight savings. Good point though.

Can we call farther ahead than a month for reservations in the Smokies?

[Gray Blazer]

If you do camp at Weser Bald, a lot of people cowboy there and get great sunrise pics (if they are lucky to have a clear sunrise).



http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/2/1/7/ATFOLDER179.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showimage.php?i=20235&original=1&c=member&imageuser=6217)

[Daydream Believer]

Wow! That's a beautiful pic!

I just can't wait to get out there! I've had the bug all summer and just could not get away from the farm.

[Kerosene]

I think that those miles are quite achievable, especially if you start out in reasonable shape. I do think that you should take advantage of a mail drop at NOC as it's right on the AT and every day of food weighs you down by 1-2 pounds!

Remember that your daylight hours will be more limited in mid-October...just over 11 hours. So, you should be prepared to walk at night, just in case.

I hope to cover this same section, plus another 14 miles north to Max Patch Road, next year sometime.

[Captain Blue]

Looks like a good schedule, maybe a bit aggressive, but certainly do-able if you put your mind to it. A couple of comments ...

* Mount Collins shelter is closed due to bear activity according to the ATC web site. Check here for trail updates:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.5399815/k.A01D/Trail_Updates/apps/nl/newsletter2.asp

* You can skip the whole backcountry reservation process in the Smokies since you quality as a Thru Hiker because you are starting at least 50 miles before the Park. (You still need to obtain a backcountry permit.) This should give you flexibility. The rules say you need to end your hike 50 miles past the park but this is impossible to enforce. (I know - I did this same thing last summer.)

From the National Park Service web site on the Smokies:

The use of tents at shelters is prohibited except by persons qualifying as thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail (by definition an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the park and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles outside the park). Thru-hikers may pitch tents outside shelters only when all bunks are otherwise occupied. It is unrealistic to expect thru-hikers to obtain advance reservations when they do not know when they will be entering the park.

* Day 5. Time wise - you will find it tough to hike these miles, eat, clean up, shuttle your car to I-40 and get back to the Fontana Dam area all in one day. My advice is park your car at Big Creek Ranger Station (near I-40) or Standing Bear Farm and get shuttled *before* your hike.

Good luck. My plans have me hiking on part of this section in mid October too. But I plan to go southbound.

Captain Blue
AT 7,200 Miler
Chronic Section Hiker

[Daydream Believer]

Kerosene...yes I have a head lamp. I do tend to get up and moving early with the sun also...not a layabout sort when I'm hiking so hopefully I'll make it before dark.

Captain Blue...I had no idea that I could skip the reservations and qualify as a thru hiker (sort of). Very cool! I much prefer to tent anyway when the weather is half decent so that is good news.

Do you just tell them you are a thru hiker when you get your permit? Interesting also on that shelter. UGH...will have to figure out what to do for hiking intervals.

I was planning to drop my car off that night of Day 4 after getting into Fontana actually and then just shuttle back to the Hike Inn after dinner so I can get an early start. I suppose I could just leave it at Standing Bear for the entire trip if they are OK with that and hike back to it. I'd have to get a long shuttle to Winding Stair Gap from there. I'll have to make some calls and see what makes sense. This is my longest section hike so far and it is a bit more complicated than the shorter hikes getting shuttles lined up.

Thanks again for the advice from all of you.

[bulldog49]

Looks like a good schedule, maybe a bit aggressive, but certainly do-able if you put your mind to it. A couple of comments ...

* Mount Collins shelter is closed due to bear activity according to the ATC web site. Check here for trail updates:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.5399815/k.A01D/Trail_Updates/apps/nl/newsletter2.asp

* You can skip the whole backcountry reservation process in the Smokies since you quality as a Thru Hiker because you are starting at least 50 miles before the Park. (You still need to obtain a backcountry permit.) This should give you flexibility. The rules say you need to end your hike 50 miles past the park but this is impossible to enforce. (I know - I did this same thing last summer.)

From the National Park Service web site on the Smokies:

The use of tents at shelters is prohibited except by persons qualifying as thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail (by definition an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the park and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles outside the park). Thru-hikers may pitch tents outside shelters only when all bunks are otherwise occupied. It is unrealistic to expect thru-hikers to obtain advance reservations when they do not know when they will be entering the park.

* Day 5. Time wise - you will find it tough to hike these miles, eat, clean up, shuttle your car to I-40 and get back to the Fontana Dam area all in one day. My advice is park your car at Big Creek Ranger Station (near I-40) or Standing Bear Farm and get shuttled *before* your hike.

Good luck. My plans have me hiking on part of this section in mid October too. But I plan to go southbound.

Captain Blue
AT 7,200 Miler
Chronic Section Hiker

Correct about not having to call ahead. But if you do you will remove a spot from the reservation system, meaning it is less likely you arrive at the shelter with no spot available to you. Probably won't happen in October but I would call anyway.

[bigcranky]

Day 1: Winding Stair Gap to Wayah Shelter 11 miles. Terrain does not look too bad to me on my elevation maps...but maps can be deceiving so any bad spots, fill me in. Should be fine, this is a nice stretch, though the initial climb out of WSG up over Wayah Bald is a long one. Great views from the tower.

Day 2: Wayah Shelter to Wesser Bald Shelter 10.6 miles. I may go farther if I feel like I can and there is a good place to stop but I don't see any water between Wesser and NOC. No water past the shelter, but you can easily get to NOC as it's all downhill. Good boxed spring before you get to Wesser Bald Shelter (in other words, stop and get water so you don't have to climb back uphill.)

Day 3: Wesser Bald Shelter to Sassafras Gap Shelter 12.6 miles. I know this climb out of NOC Nobo is hard. Looks horrible. I plan to stop and NOC and eat but not to stay over night and sleep soft. Will do that at Fontana. Is this realistic? I would seriously want to stay at NOC and make this the only climb of the day. If you get to Sassafras and want to keep going, there are some good campsites on Cheoah Bald.

Day 4: Sassafras Gap Shelter to Brown Fork Gap Shelter 9.1 miles. I may push on to Cody Gap if I feel good but I believe I've read that this section between shelters is a tough one? So this can be an easier day after the climb out of NOC to rest a bit. The climb out of Stecoah Gap is one amazingly steep uphill. So, yeah, see how you feel when you get to Brown Fork Gap. I've done this section twice and BFG to Sassafras was plenty for one day in either direction for me.

Day 5: Brown Fork Gap Shelter to Fontana Dam Visitor Center. 13 miles. I will call a shuttle and go to the Hike Inn or where ever my lodgings are. Resupply, eat and clean up. Move my vehicle to the other end of the Smokies and get a shuttle back if poss. Love the Hike Inn. You could resupply here with a mail drop.

Your mileage for the Smokies all looks reasonable. You'll be able to adapt once you get there, of course. I found the Smokies to be fairly easy hiking once I got past the climb out of Fontana.

Sounds like a good hike and a perfect time of year. Have fun.

[Captain Blue]

Do you just tell them you are a thru hiker when you get your permit?

Yes, sort of. You get your permit at the Fontana Dam Visitors Center at a self serve station. You won't be talking to anybody. Just put on your permit that you are a thru hiker.

When I did this last summer I was prepared to show a backcountry ranger, if asked, my itinerary, journal and photos on my camera to "prove" I started 50 miles before the Park. However, I did not have to do this.

I think you are better off getting one long shuttle versus a couple of shorter ones. One long shuttle should be less expensive and mean less time in the car. You won't feel like shuttling a car after 4 or 5 days into your hike. You'll want a shower, food, rest and clean clothes. The section from NOC to Fontana is not an easy one.