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View Full Version : Need help regarding bear cannisters on JMT.....



nawlunz
08-25-2010, 09:12
this may be a silly question, but what does everyone do for bear cannisters given the length of the JMT....I plan to do the entire route, and will resupply at Vermillion and/or Muir Ranch...but, from that point on, I will take ten days.

Other than the Bearikade expedition, the other cannisters don't seem like they will hold all my food for ten days. And, if I do take the Bearikade expedition, not sure how I will be able to pack it....

Have a 75liter pack, it's large enough, but these cannisters are also bulky.

Do others take a smaller cannister and put what you can in those and hope for the best?

Just curious as to how others protect ten days of food with such limited size cannisters.

HELP!!

RedneckRye
08-25-2010, 11:55
I've got a Bear Vault. It holds about 6 days of food for me. On longer trips I triage my food. Smellier stuff, dinners, "more important food" goes in the can, the rest of it is in a stuff sack. Then I transfer bagged food into the can as eat food from the can. When there is food in the bag, my main bear defense is to think good thoughts.
If a bear were to get the bagged food, then it is time to start looking at the map and plan a reroute to an alternate resupply. Maybe out over Kersarge pass and into Independence or over Bishop Pass and down into Bishop. Yeah, those are extra miles which would probably blow the schedule and possibly end the trip before you get to Whitney, but is isn't the end of the trip. It is just a different adventure.
If you get permit and canister checked by a backcountry ranger, there is no need to mention your second stash of food in your pack.

RedneckRye
08-25-2010, 11:58
Also, last fall Chomp and I did a 3 week Sierra trip. Longest between resupply was 7 days. I was carrying a 50 Liter pack with a Bear Vault and things fit fine after about the third packing re-organization.

leaftye
08-25-2010, 12:16
Just curious as to how others protect ten days of food with such limited size cannisters.

It's not about the # of days of food, it's about the volume of food. It's definitely possible to fit 10 days of food in there if you put together a diet that's dense enough. I put together a powdered meal that allows me to fit about 2 weeks of food into an Ursack. A Bearvault 500 is even bigger. The powdered meals are 3000 calories a day with lots of fat, carbs and a good measure of protein.

nawlunz
08-25-2010, 12:16
Also, last fall Chomp and I did a 3 week Sierra trip. Longest between resupply was 7 days. I was carrying a 50 Liter pack with a Bear Vault and things fit fine after about the third packing re-organization.


the JMT last year? Looks to me that between Muir and WHitney, it will be 9-10 days....

Helmuth.Fishmonger
08-25-2010, 12:40
Other than the Bearikade expedition, the other cannisters don't seem like they will hold all my food for ten days. And, if I do take the Bearikade expedition, not sure how I will be able to pack it....


works fine - last September heading north from Whitney and Muir Ranch already closed, I had 12 days of food in it.

You can rent it for something like $60

It fits fine in my Gregory 95 Liter Pack - gonna get a little tight in a 75L unless you can strap other bulky stuff on the outside. I'd always put the can inside the pack though. Too heavy anywhere on the outside extremes.

You can also hang food (if done properly) southbound from Muir Ranch up to Pinchot Pass - after that pass bear cans are required, but you can have your excess food already consumed at that pass.

nawlunz
08-25-2010, 12:45
It's not about the # of days of food, it's about the volume of food. It's definitely possible to fit 10 days of food in there if you put together a diet that's dense enough. I put together a powdered meal that allows me to fit about 2 weeks of food into an Ursack. A Bearvault 500 is even bigger. The powdered meals are 3000 calories a day with lots of fat, carbs and a good measure of protein.


I'd love to get information on how you did that, or where you purchased the meals....THANKS

leaftye
08-25-2010, 13:03
I'll attach a list of foods that I compiled to help create my diet.

My meal plan allowed me to fit in 11 days of food into an Ursack. Each day had 3000 calories of powder that made up the core of my diet, plus extra nuts and gorp for extra calories to bring me up to 4500 calories a day. If you're thin and have ultralight gear, you might be able to get by on just 3000 calories a day, in which case the Ursack would nearly 20 days of food. The BV500 is 50 cubic inches bigger than the Ursack, so I bet it'd be possible to fit 20 days of food in there if you're only doing powder....so the smaller BearVault is probably a better fit. Also consider that a powder-only diet means you can leave all your cooking gear at home.

The density and weight are not why I did a powdered diet though. I went powdered because I HATE taking time off from hiking to prepare a meal, force myself to eat tons of food in one sitting and then have to clean it all up afterwards. The powdered meals can be drank like water while I hike, take a minute or two to prepare, and don't really require cleaning because it gets washed out by the next bottle of powdered drink or water.

perrito
08-25-2010, 13:15
What kind of tent are you using? I had a Bearikade Expedition, Tarptent Contrail, Big Agnes IAC, and a 35° down bag and clothing in my Osprey Exos (61 L) and I was very comfy. Keep the bulk down and everything will fit.

nawlunz
08-25-2010, 13:19
What kind of tent are you using? I had a Bearikade Expedition, Tarptent Contrail, Big Agnes IAC, and a 35° down bag and clothing in my Osprey Exos (61 L) and I was very comfy. Keep the bulk down and everything will fit.


but, I use it solo...less that two pounds.....

Moose2001
08-25-2010, 13:27
Don't forget, a lot of the PCT/JMT has bear boxes available. You can use those for a couple of days to burn down some of the food you're carrying. In reality, there are just short stretches where a cannister is required.

Jester2000
08-25-2010, 14:00
Moose2001 is correct. Regulations require bear canisters in Yosemite & Kings Canyon. And there are campsites that have bear boxes. Regulations also only require that the food be in the canister (or in a bear box) WHEN YOU ARE IN CAMP.

This means two things:
If you stay at campsites with bear boxes for the first couple of day, you don't have to worry about any of the food fitting for those days.

Second (and many people don't realize this) even if you don't stay at campsites with bear boxes, you can carry one more day of food than will fit in the canister. Because you'll be eating it all the first day, and will never be storing it in camp.

Good luck & have fun!

sbhikes
08-25-2010, 16:05
I was able to get 5+ days of food in the weekender bear can. 10 days ought to work for the larger ones. You have to be ruthless with the packaging and also carry food you can fold, spindle and mutilate.

You can exit over Bishop Pass for a resupply if needed. Parcher's Resort holds packages (you'll have to look them up) and they also have a small store and cafe. It's a nice trip to go through Dusy Basin, so you could add this as a way to break up that 10 day stretch.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
08-25-2010, 17:34
Don't forget, a lot of the PCT/JMT has bear boxes available. You can use those for a couple of days to burn down some of the food you're carrying.

the only places that have them are between Woods Creek and Tyndall Creek in the very southern section of Kings Canyon and Northern Sequoia. Unless you are northbound from whitney, you basically have no use for them, plus, what are you gonna do if you for some reason cannot reach such a location? Don't even mention to a ranger that you will use the lockers for overflow (plus, there are only very few who will make it from Whitney Portal to one of the lockers along the trail between Crabtree and Tyndal before they need sleep...

all other lockers you may be thinking of are actually in campgrounds at Tuolumne and Reds.

The Will
08-26-2010, 20:24
There are two concerns: Compliance with regulations requiring the use of a bear canister and keeping your food (and yourself) safe from bears.

It would be difficult for a ranger to cite you for being out of compliance if you had a full bear canister and than two or so days of food that could not fit in the canister. I don't know how they could discover this. So the bigger concern would be keeping your food safe from a prowling bear. If you just follow the basic rules--food 100 feet away from your shelter, bear-bag it if you want to--things should be OK. Probability is on your side.

Rambler
08-31-2010, 11:37
If you cannot fit it all in an Expedition Bearikade, take your chances with odor proof bags in an Ursack.

http://www.ursack.com/

nawlunz
09-01-2010, 19:23
If you cannot fit it all in an Expedition Bearikade, take your chances with odor proof bags in an Ursack.

http://www.ursack.com/


I don't mean to sound stupid, but clearly putting the foot in a bear cannister and away from camp is something I understand..Is the ursack used the same way? Simply put it 100 feet or so away from your camp and hope for the best?

leaftye
09-02-2010, 01:00
I personally keep my Ursack away from my campsite. Far enough away so that I shouldn't be disturbed from my sleep due to critters trying to get into the Ursack.

doodah man
09-03-2010, 23:36
the only places that have them are between Woods Creek and Tyndall Creek in the very southern section of Kings Canyon and Northern Sequoia. Unless you are northbound from whitney, you basically have no use for them, plus, what are you gonna do if you for some reason cannot reach such a location? Don't even mention to a ranger that you will use the lockers for overflow (plus, there are only very few who will make it from Whitney Portal to one of the lockers along the trail between Crabtree and Tyndal before they need sleep...

all other lockers you may be thinking of are actually in campgrounds at Tuolumne and Reds.

Actually, there are (at least) 9 bear box locations in the first 52 miles heading nobo from Whitney that I noted on my last trip in 2008.
Crabtree Meadows (18.5)
Wallace Creek (22.8)
Tyndall Frog Pond (27.0)
Tyndall Creek (27.4)
Vidette Meadow (38.6)
Bubbs Creek (39.8)
Charlotte Lake (41.6) off tral a bit
Rae Lakes (

doodah man
09-03-2010, 23:41
the only places that have them are between Woods Creek and Tyndall Creek in the very southern section of Kings Canyon and Northern Sequoia. Unless you are northbound from whitney, you basically have no use for them, plus, what are you gonna do if you for some reason cannot reach such a location? Don't even mention to a ranger that you will use the lockers for overflow (plus, there are only very few who will make it from Whitney Portal to one of the lockers along the trail between Crabtree and Tyndal before they need sleep...

all other lockers you may be thinking of are actually in campgrounds at Tuolumne and Reds.

Actually, there are (at least) 10 bear box locations in the first 52 miles heading nobo from Whitney that I noted on my last trip in 2008. There
may be more, but these are the one I saw.

Crabtree Meadows (18.5 mi)
Wallace Creek (22.8 mi)
Tyndall Frog Pond (27.0 mi)
Tyndall Creek (27.4 mi)
Vidette Meadow (38.6 mi)
Bubbs Creek (39.8 mi)
Charlotte Lake (41.6 mi) off tral a bit
Rae Lakes (46.8 mi)
Arrowhead Lake (48.4 mi)
Woods Creek (52.6 mi)

(sorry about the double post prior to message completion)

Rambler
09-08-2010, 10:55
You might be able to fasten the ursac to a large rock. a tree or shrub, and away from your sleeping area.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
09-08-2010, 11:29
You might be able to fasten the ursac to a large rock. a tree or shrub, and away from your sleeping area.

which is what any ranger will tell you you should avoid - that's how bears do get to the food content, even if it's in powdered form falling out after banging these bags around for an hour or two. Get them off the gound where bears cannot get to them.

The only thing these things are good for when not off the ground is to keep rodents off your clif bars. A bear may not get much of the food, but bears will continue to work on these bags for a long time, leaving the contents completely mashed up. Milk powder in your chicken teriyaki with some instant coffee and some sun tan lotion to top it all off.

listen to ranger George

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=1&Number=72414&Searchpage=1&Main=8035&Words=ursack&topic=0&Search=true#Post72414

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=1&Number=72444&Searchpage=1&Main=8035&Words=ursack&topic=0&Search=true#Post72444

Dogwood
09-08-2010, 16:48
Lots of solid usable real-life comments being given based on experience, knowing the regs, and being aware of what's available(bear boxes) at various campsites.

I ditto Lefteye's comment. It's not about the days of food but about the volume of it. I can typically fit 7 days of food, that I've premeasured and repackaged myself, into a BearVault 4500(the small clear sided one).

As I'm rarely in a Gotta GO Gotta GO thru-hiker mentality on the JMT and I think some of the hikes out for resupply along the JMT are scenic in themselves I'll often elect to do an intermediate resupply between the stretch of MTR(which I often elect to bypass and instead resupply at VVR) and Mt Whitney by going out through lovely Dusy Basin over Bishop Pass as SBhikes also recommended. I think the reason why many elect to not take this resupply option is because they feel daunted by that initial ascent from the JMT up to Dusy Basin or the hitch out/back. The ascent is actually quite gradual, scenic, and on well graded trail. The view out across LeConte Canyon is fabulous! Once you get up to Dusy Basin the hiking is staright forward, rather gradual over Bishop Pass, and it really is quite scenic going out to South Lake. As SBhikes mentioned, Parcher's Resort, just a few miles down from the South Lake/ Bishop Pass TH, holds packages for those who stay there. Note PR has a bunkhouse with cheaper rates. They also have dining facilities for those that stay there. You should inquire about the dining arrangements if you decide to stay there when you make your reservation. This TH also is well used. I've never had to wait long to get a ride into Bishop.

Dogwood
09-08-2010, 17:19
I've got a Bear Vault. It holds about 6 days of food for me. On longer trips I triage my food. Smellier stuff, dinners, "more important food" goes in the can, the rest of it is in a stuff sack. Then I transfer bagged food into the can as eat food from the can.

Close to what I also sometimes do.

When there is food in the bag, my main bear defense is to think good thoughts.

LOL! I actually will use the extra bagged food, most often not more than a day's supply, sealed in an odor and leak proof Alosak, and then double sealed in a Sea to Summit WP silny stuff sack, under my feet or use it as a pillow!

If a bear were to get the bagged food, then it is time to start looking at the map and plan a reroute to an alternate resupply.

I don't want this to occur for both my sake and the bears. It has never happened to me! Or, the bears!

Maybe out over Kersarge pass and into Independence...

Another possible intermediate resupply option allowing for a smaller food haul from MTR/VVR. It's fewer miles out to the TH/back to the JMT than the Bishop Pass resupply option. Again quite scenic past Kearsarge Basin/Lake. Steeper hike, on sometimes highly eroded shifting talus, coming back over Kearsarge Pass though. Reltively easy hitching into IND. Getting a ride back to the TH has been typically harder for me. There is a taxi service in Indy. Another option is to arrange ahead of time to have someone leave you a resupply in one of the bear boxes at the Kearsarge Pass TH. This way it avoids the hitch into/out of Indy.

Yeah, those are extra miles which would probably blow the schedule and possibly end the trip before you get to Whitney, but is isn't the end of the trip. It is just a different adventure.

That's the way I currently think about it too! Although, I didn't feel this way on my first trip to the Sierras/JMT!

If you get permit and canister checked by a backcountry ranger, there is no need to mention your second stash of food in your pack.

I have had rangers check me for a canister on the JMT, but I've always satisfied their inquires by tapping on the canister when it was inside my pack and showing them my permit. I've never had to empty my pack and remove the canister to actually display it to them. I have found that if I was always straight with a NP Ranger in any NP or, at the very least have my story straight, if I was to meet up with one, they are agreeable folks. Don't think for a moment that they are stupid though by try unloading some BS of a story!

sbhikes
09-13-2010, 00:32
I don't mean to sound stupid, but clearly putting the foot in a bear cannister and away from camp is something I understand..Is the ursack used the same way? Simply put it 100 feet or so away from your camp and hope for the best?
No, you are supposed to tie the cable around a tree. It has to be difficult for the bear to drag it off somewhere and to get any leverage to try and tear it open.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
09-13-2010, 10:57
No, you are supposed to tie the cable around a tree. It has to be difficult for the bear to drag it off somewhere and to get any leverage to try and tear it open.

but it makes it wonderfully easy for the bear to totally tear up the bag and destroy all its content until if falls out in the form of powder, which is why it is not allowed to use this thing anywhere on the JMT in that particular manner. Only hanging on trees where tree hanging is allowed, but hten why not use a $5 stuff bag when you do that?