View Full Version : Hardware cloth wood burner
I made it out of 1/2 hardware cloth(stainless). Weighs 2.2 ounces, is 3.25" in diameter and is 4" tall.
A modified StarLyte burner can be used in the stove when wet weather puts a damper on dry twigs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPMiULXqZWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPPmTrjf4xk
This is brilliant.
How do you attach the combustion chamber to the hardware cloth?
How much of an air gap is at the bottom?
This is brilliant.
How do you attach the combustion chamber to the hardware cloth?
How much of an air gap is at the bottom?
Thank you JAK.
The chamber is spot welded at 4 places. There is a 1/2 inch air gap at the bottom.
There is a very interesting phenomena that is occurring under the paper ash that is permitting an almost 100 percent ignition sucess. I think I should write a paper on the process and submit to third world countries for consideration on TLUD technologies. I burned 2 batches of Green Ash twigs this afternoon with success and boiled the 2 cups. I load the stove while it lays on it's side.
pure genius zelph. that is an awesome stove. love the design. if i may ask,what have ur total burn times been?
pure genius zelph. that is an awesome stove. love the design. if i may ask,what have ur total burn times been?
Thanks 12ax7, I have not timed the burn length. I've only been interested in the successful ignition and to achieve a boil of 2 cups. The length of burn is going well beyond the required time to do the boil. I'm using hardwood, Oak and Ash and so I get a long burn time. If I were to use pine it would be shorter. Today I'm burning Ash twigs, yesterday was kiln dried oak.
I'm interested also to see how well the spot welds will hold up under prolonged heating.
Is it that stainless that is designed to resist corrossion after being welded. I forget the number. Is the hardware cloth also of the same stuff? I suppose it wouldn't matter too much. It needs to last a few months or years but not decades.
mweinstone
09-04-2010, 19:31
post a pic zelphy? ol mattys abicuss cant veiw u tube for want of a better browser and reader in this ancient concraption.
mweinstone
09-04-2010, 19:46
i am matthewski. i know crap. zelph is wasteing himself. i have said this so many times. i will speak it again. zelph? you have a skill. the skill is your love. your love can bring you a liveing. your love bringing you a liveing can allow you to quit your job that you hate. not hateing can extend your life. you wanna live zelpph. use the can zelph. use the can. my father faught with your father "o b won CAN o bee" in the can wars. now my can troopers need you. i only hope R2canDOtoo and cp3cansopop reach you in time. my hikers struggle with gas and fumes and exsplosive fuels while your technology could free planet hoth and the reble armys to defend against the evil jet boildahut.
Classic Matty. Classic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omB18oRsBYg
Matty, It takes too much advertising to make a living do the stove thing. I'd have to produce a youtube video everyday:) People forget me too easily or don't want to remember:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video6012_0002.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video6012_0002.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video6011_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video6011_0001.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video6009_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video6009_0001.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video5009_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video5009_0001.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video2_6__0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video2_6__0001.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video1003_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video1003_0001.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/th_Video6013_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video6013_0001.jpg)
The stainless has a high content of Titanium that makes it resist rusting. Great for this application and much less costly than Ti.
58starter
09-12-2010, 13:24
Great Job, I have made a few of you stoves, and love making the next one. I will try this one soon. I am hiking in Oct for several days and will take it along with me.
Great Job, I have made a few of you stoves, and love making the next one. I will try this one soon. I am hiking in Oct for several days and will take it along with me.
Thank you.....................:)
For the past four days I've been testing the stove and have come to the conclusion that it is one of my finest designs:D
I've unraveled the secrets to top lighting wood burning stoves. Most often they go by the name of TLUD's, Top Lit Up Draft.
In about a month I should have a few dozen of them made and will make them available on my website. I'll include detailed instructions(video and photos) on the secrets of TLUD stoves for backpackers. This little stove will boil 2 cups of water with one load of twigs, no more having to feed twigs as with other stoves. No more having to struggle through clouds of billowing smoke, burning eyes and coughing.....gasping for air:eek:
This is a video made this past weekend. It shows how it looks when top lit with paper. As the video progresses watch how clean it burns up to a point where it needs to have it lit again because it had gone into a smoke mode because of wind blowing. If I had a pot on it, it probably would not have gone out.
It's a very simple design and works very well. Primary air entering over the entire bottom and secondary air entering over the top edge of the 2" high fire box. Primary air is slowed by the compact, vertical stacked oak fuel. As the fuel is consumed, more air will be allowed to enter and speed up the burn rate. I did many test burns over the 4 day camp out this past weekend.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/videos/th_Video2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/videos/?action=view¤t=Video2.mp4)
I've lit my Kelly Kettle from the top sometimes and depending on how it is loaded with fuel it sometime works better that way. It doesn't really have any secondary air except down the chimney from above, but this is sufficient when it first starts until it really gets going. With the Kelly Kettle the advantage of a top down burn is that you have a fire on the top to complete combustion, so you get less smoke. It isn't neccessarily a faster boil, but it can save fuel and you can get a boil without having to reful if get it right.
I like your design. Did you play around much with the vertical gap at the bottom and the annular gap at the bottom and the vertical gap at the top? You must have a pretty good feel for that sort of thing by now and probably just got it right.
Something I wonder about sometimes is a flat plate or baffle near the top. The function would be to increase the combustion temperature below by shielding the fire from the initially cold pot bottom above. It could be donut shaped, so that secondary air comes in below it, and combustion gasses go up through the middle and then out underneath the pot bottom, at a higher velocity than otherwise. Might not work well until the fire gets going. Might be more practical to just wait until you put the cold pot on, or put an empty pot on until it gets going. You could experiment with different hole diameters. Also, instead of a flat plate with a hole in the middle it could be some sort of funnel. the idea is similar to the Aprovecho type Rocket Lorena Stove by Dr. Larry Winiarski. It is for large less portable cook stoves, but some of the ideas and studies have great information and ideas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HtEM6pvIUc
I like the idea of piling up some dirt around it. With my Kelly Kettle I go ride of the base to make it lighter and more compact, and always improvise some sort of base and primary air feed. There is no sense piling dirt around the Kelly Kettle because it is a water chamber. What I don't like about the Kelly Kettle is that it cannot be used empty, as it is aluminum and will destroy itself, so it cannot be used for making bannock or warming hands and drying socks as well as a hobbo stove.
I don't think your hobbo would need to be improved much, our have dirt piled around it, but it is something you could do with it if you were going to be in one place for awhile and use it for different things. Once you did that, then packing some dirt around it and using a continuous feed in from the side and a rocket type funnel at the top would make a little more sense.
You could get better boil times with this one. if that was your thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRWRx6bqk2w&feature=related
I've lit my Kelly Kettle from the top sometimes and depending on how it is loaded with fuel it sometime works better that way. It doesn't really have any secondary air except down the chimney from above, but this is sufficient when it first starts until it really gets going. With the Kelly Kettle the advantage of a top down burn is that you have a fire on the top to complete combustion, so you get less smoke. It isn't neccessarily a faster boil, but it can save fuel and you can get a boil without having to reful if get it right.
I like your design. Did you play around much with the vertical gap at the bottom and the annular gap at the bottom and the vertical gap at the top? You must have a pretty good feel for that sort of thing by now and probably just got it right.
Something I wonder about sometimes is a flat plate or baffle near the top. The function would be to increase the combustion temperature below by shielding the fire from the initially cold pot bottom above. It could be donut shaped, so that secondary air comes in below it, and combustion gasses go up through the middle and then out underneath the pot bottom, at a higher velocity than otherwise. Might not work well until the fire gets going. Might be more practical to just wait until you put the cold pot on, or put an empty pot on until it gets going. You could experiment with different hole diameters. Also, instead of a flat plate with a hole in the middle it could be some sort of funnel. the idea is similar to the Aprovecho type Rocket Lorena Stove by Dr. Larry Winiarski. It is for large less portable cook stoves, but some of the ideas and studies have great information and ideas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HtEM6pvIUc
I like the idea of piling up some dirt around it. With my Kelly Kettle I go ride of the base to make it lighter and more compact, and always improvise some sort of base and primary air feed. There is no sense piling dirt around the Kelly Kettle because it is a water chamber. What I don't like about the Kelly Kettle is that it cannot be used empty, as it is aluminum and will destroy itself, so it cannot be used for making bannock or warming hands and drying socks as well as a hobbo stove.
I don't think your hobbo would need to be improved much, our have dirt piled around it, but it is something you could do with it if you were going to be in one place for awhile and use it for different things. Once you did that, then packing some dirt around it and using a continuous feed in from the side and a rocket type funnel at the top would make a little more sense.
I came close to ordering the Stainless Steel Kelly Kettle today:) I have an idea how to load it and top light it. I watched a video the other day of Kelly style stove that got me to thinking of how to top light it. Watch the video, it's the first time being lit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZq76rQbol8
Something I wonder about sometimes is a flat plate or baffle near the top. The function would be to increase the combustion temperature below by shielding the fire from the initially cold pot bottom above.My thoughts are the paper ash has that effect on the ignition of the fuel pile. Infra red heat radiation bouncing back at the fuel and shields it from a breeze that might blow out the sensitive small flames that initially occur.
I've done much research on the stoves being built for third world countries, very interesting stuff and have had an influence on my stove development. The top plate concentrator is something that I will have to try on the Woodgaz UL. TLUD's for backpacking love oxygen as you can see when a pot is placed on the stove. Smoke begins to appear quickly. If I were to add an additional 1" to the upper pot support of this stove I would have no problem of the flames wanting to be reduced. I made this stove according to the wants of hikers wanting compact and light weight. Fits nice inside of a 600ml mug.
I'll go over to youtube and get a copy of my rocket stove for backpackers, be back in a min.
While I'm gone watch this one that shows the size of the Woodgaz UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5R55t4Ic3M
Here's the one made on the style of the rocket stove
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQjtUpsC17s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5R55t4Ic3M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZq76rQbol8
Holly crap. With the Kelly Kettle you are not suppose to have the cork in. You can get a nasty burn. Been there, done that. I was very lucky. The cork on the Kelly Kettle is really just for tilting the kettle to pour it more than anything else, and for carrying the water maybe, cold or hot, but not to have on while its heating up to a boil. It can explode like that, and give a nasty superheated steam burn, and also it does a number on the bottom seal of the Kelly Kettle.
To top light it I put all those vertical sticks in first, from the top, and put some birch bark in around the top also, and light the birch bark. Sometimes it works. It works better if you have some birch bark all the way down. Still light it at the top. The trick is not having so much that you don't get air flow, and not so little that the birch bark burns off before the spruce sticks have a chance to get going. I don't light the bottom like he did, with the kettle off. If I light it at the bottom, I do it with the kettle on. To induce the draft right away.
sheepdog
09-15-2010, 19:41
Cool stove Zelph, where do you get stainless steel hardware cloth??
Cool stove Zelph, where do you get stainless steel hardware cloth??
Got it from McMasterCarr. The 2" stainless was special order out of Chicago 2 years ago for the Fancee Feest stoves and Cobalt Blue Soloist
JAK........here is his second try at the Kettle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXa3qwFlcyA
JAK....... I was thinking of loading from the bottom........I'm going to get a kettle just to experiment in the name of stove science. I'll see if there is a used one out there somwhere
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQjtUpsC17s
That looks great. Lightweight and compact and nice continuous feed.
You could have a bar across so the fed stick are above the air coming in, or not.
Someone else built a coffee can rocket stove with the funnel at the top.
It's heavier, and not quite there in terms of performance, but he's working on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-BQMpaW-E0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtM2NYfTEJI
The gap at the top of that one is wider than normal for that type of stove, but might be more practical for a smaller stove, not sure. Here is one built with a narrower rocket funnel and a smaller gap. The area of the gap times the outer circumference is supposed to be about the same area as the chimney tube. The heat transfer is supposed to be proprtional to the friction, Reynolds Analogy, so you need the induced draft to drive the heat transfer, so height is needed. The chimney is in effect, under the pot, so a rocket stove can get a bit tippy with a backpacking stove because it needs to stay tall even if it gets narrower. The lower combustion chamber is larger diameter, so combustion is shielded from the cold surface above, and most of the friction only occurs where it is needed, where the heat transfer occurs. The friction reduces the boundary layer, which increases heat transfer proportionally to the friction losses.
I would like to see a smaller version of this one.
It has the proper gap. I wonder how well it would work if smaller and lighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsDjcv5vO4c&feature=related
My Kelly Kettle is the smaller aluminum version, available through Lee Valley Tools. I take it the Gilly Kettle is stainless steel. Interesting. Heavier I suppose, but you might also be able to use it without water in it, to cook on top, or to dry socks or whatever. Not sure.
The small Kelly Kettle, without the base, is about 16oz and holds about 700ml. You can get 750-800ml in there, but 50-100ml usually ends up sputtering out if you do that. A safety modification would be to cut a 1/4 wedge out of the cork, so it won't get stuck if you forget to take it out. It is hard to remove when it starts steaming because it gets wet, so to take it out makes a vacuum, until it starts boiling and then it explodes off with superheated steam just as you are finally able to pull it out. It's only real purpose is to tilt the stove to pour it, while holding the handle with you other had, sort of cantilevered at 90deg so your hand is not directly over the rocket. So you could make the cork a smaller diameter also, or larger, so that it can't plug the hole.
I love the chimney effect:) I'm eager to play with a Kelly Kettle.
I think this is the smallest I've seen a rocket stove. The pot support was a quickie thing just to test the initial idea. The arched draft entry worked great as did everything else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhx6Ltgzfgg
My recent tests showed that a windscreen wrapped completely around the Woodgaz UL will cause it to consume fuel too quickly. The chimney effect comes into play and really brings in the air way too fast. A windscreen only needs to be on the windward side, 1/2 of the stove to be shielded.
Trailbender
09-17-2010, 08:15
i am matthewski. i know crap. zelph is wasteing himself. i have said this so many times. i will speak it again. zelph? you have a skill. the skill is your love. your love can bring you a liveing. your love bringing you a liveing can allow you to quit your job that you hate. not hateing can extend your life. you wanna live zelpph. use the can zelph. use the can. my father faught with your father "o b won CAN o bee" in the can wars. now my can troopers need you. i only hope R2canDOtoo and cp3cansopop reach you in time. my hikers struggle with gas and fumes and exsplosive fuels while your technology could free planet hoth and the reble armys to defend against the evil jet boildahut.
Now that is funny as hell.
I love the chimney effect:) I'm eager to play with a Kelly Kettle.
I think this is the smallest I've seen a rocket stove. The pot support was a quickie thing just to test the initial idea. The arched draft entry worked great as did everything else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhx6Ltgzfgg
My recent tests showed that a windscreen wrapped completely around the Woodgaz UL will cause it to consume fuel too quickly. The chimney effect comes into play and really brings in the air way too fast. A windscreen only needs to be on the windward side, 1/2 of the stove to be shielded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQjtUpsC17s
I can see your point. If you wrapped some foil around the upper part of this it would really honk when it gets going. The Kelly Kettle is like that once it is boiling at the water is 212F. The flame shoots right out of it. It produces the most heat when it needs it the most, but also once the job is finished it keeps on burning like a banshee unless you used exactly the right amount of fuel. I yank the kettle off and then the fuel that is left just collapses down on itself and it makes a perfect little campfire for warming your hands or whatever, or as a base for building a slighting large longer lasting campfire. That is what I like about the Kelly Kettle in winter. Even if fuel is a little damp, you can quickly make a bowl of soup and/or a mug of tea, and have a small campfire going. Otherwise you would take longer to get the small campfire going, and still not have your bowl of soup or cup of tea. A hobo stove is somewhere in between the two. A little slower at first, to get the first cup of tea, but then once its going you don't have to switch to small campfire mode, you can stay in nice small efficient hobo mode. So I am still working on a nice design for a small hobo or rocket stove for winter. For winter it should always be a little bigger, but it shouldn't have to be alot bigger.
I weighed and measured my Kelly Kettle again last night.
It is the smallest Kelly Kettle, their 1 Imp. Pint model.
It does hold 700-750ml though, not 600ml. I think the 600ml is based on the nominal value of 1 imp.pint, but it is bigger than that, without alot of sputtering. It weighs in at 16oz, without the base. I melted and then lost the base a while ago, and have found it better to hike without it anyway. It is easy enough to make a base out of rocks, or to simple dig an air inlet.
So there you go. 725ml capacity. 16oz. 10min to boil.
15min with some fussing with damp fuel. Hard to beat.
Reasonably compact. It will fit in a large side pocket without its base, but only just barely. The base inverts and nests, but still sticks out some, and with a somewhat wider diameter because of its rim. Much better to leave the base home. You can more easily nest a mug and/or water bottle into the Kelly Kettle without the base also. The aluminum mug from the swiss corked flash cooker nests in really well, as it is tapered the same way as the Kelly Kettle. It is not a bad size for melting snow for the Kelly Kettle either. You partly fill it with packed snow and pour boiling water on it from the Kelly Kettle, and keep doing that until all your water bottles are full again, and that is how you use a Kelly Kettle in winter when your only source is snow. Just don't run out of water. Keep at least 500ml.
I'm going to start out with a large kettle and work my way down to the smallest.:)
With the help of the Woodgaz stove I'll be able to do batch loads top lit and not melt the base of the system;) I'll be able to lift off the kettle without fear of having tall twigs fall over the sides of the base."stumpjumpers" last video shows how the burning twigs fall every which way when taking the kettle off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnlv73um5Mw
This morning I did a quick prototype of a flame condensor and placed it on the Woodgaz after packing it and lit it up..........worked really nice on concentrating the flames to the center of the stove. Now I need to make a more permanent one and try it out with a pot on top The stove is evolving slowly, getting better.
Wood stove build contest is coming up next month at bplite.com for all you wood stove builders out there. Click on the link in my signature block.
zelph you're so innovative man...
zelph you're so innovative man...
Aw shucks!!!:)
I got this idea from one of the stoves I saw in a video recently. It was from the guy that pioneered the woodgas stoves, Paal Wendlebo.
The flame concentrator is made of stainless steel and is placed on top of the prepared wood pile. This video is the second burn test of the concentrator.
Watch how clean it burns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2T5ogVIFRA
Going to the woods, be back next week:D
I just came across a model of volvano kettle I hadn't seen before.
I like the design. It is the first I have seen with a removeable lid.
Could be good for cleaning, and a better design for use in snow also.
They make a 700ml version, in stainless.
Sits right on the ground also, without a base, which is how I use my Kelly.
http://ecobilly.com/501.html
Doesn't list a weight.
Here is a video, but it is the 1.5 litre model I think...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOvF63mhVQ
Here is the 700ml version, but not shown in action...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgm_LMdoe9o
nip ahead to 1:31 to cut to the chase
Best design for a volcano kettle I have seen so far.
It weighs in at 600g according to this sight, so a tad heavy at 21g.
http://www.campingwithhillbilly.com/products.htm
The Kelly Kettle is 16oz if you leave the base at home, same capacity. But the Eco Billy is stainless steel, and it is a more compact design also. Plus, the lid means you can clean it out, and melt snow, and pack stuff inside of the water jacket as well as up the combustion chamber. Brilliant. Well done Aussies.
Oops. That was 21oz, not 21g.
Take a look at the size of the wood used in conjunction with the Kelly Kettle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS0tqvuG5xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXbcR87DykM
Nice flue damper Zelph.
I don't make the fire that way, but it works really well for what you are doing because you can remove the kettle and have a cookfire. The stainless is good for that also because the aluminum bases can melt.
I use longer vertical sticks, and dry spruce branches snapped off the bottom of spruce trees are ideal for this, and very prevalent up here. If they snap off, they are dry. If you have to twist or cut them off its usally the wrong kind of tree and they don't burn as well. I use strips of paper birch mixed in and light it from the top. I don't use the base. I just put the kettle on a flat rock, with a few stones if an air gap is needed. On dry earth or sand I will just dig a little air tunnel. If the fuel is good and I get it right I don't have to drop in any extra sticks or bark and it just runs out of fuel as it comes to a full rolling boil in well under 10 minutes. If I want a campfire when I'm done making my tea and oatmeal or whatever, I drop in extra thick sticks as it is burning so that there is a good fire going even as I remove the kettle, and it all collapses into the pit I have made for it. I can't leave the aluminum kettle on without water because it will melt or burn or if nothing else leak at the seal. If it does leak a little it might reseal itself in time. I have gotten leaks from leaving the cork in. Dangerous thing to do.
I would suggest drilling a hole or something in the cork, so it can never be airtight, because sooner or later someone might leave it in and it seals itself pretty good and becomes a pressure cooker, which is really dangerous. I gave myself a bit of a scalding this summer, and my daughter was with me and it could have been much worse. It's tempting to put it in loose to keep some smoke out, but its too easy for it to fall in tighter once it starts to steam and condense around the cork. Even just some sort of notch into the side of the cork would work maybe.
Try some vertical wooden dowels, mixed with strips of paper or wax paper to start it. Might not work as well with the big kettle. Also, not so good for what you use it for because when you remove the kettle all the burning sticks sort of fall all over the place. Sometimes they collapse down into you base though, if they are far enough along.
Anyhow, the idea is you get more radiant heat transfer from the burning sticks directly to the water wall. That's the theory anyway. I am not sure it is a cleaner combustion though. Your method looks alot cleaner, even though it relies more on convective heat. It probably still gets alot of radiant heat transfer also. My method is fairly clean if I get the top down burn right and the spruce sticks are just the right size and I don't have to use too much birch bark to get them going. It still smokes some in the beginning, as the fuel is going through its stages and the water wall is colder, but the top fire burns off the volatile gasses as they rise up. It soon burns down so that it is all burning the same as if it were lit from below, but it burns cleaner in the first 3-4 minutes if you get things loaded right and light it from the top. I have some sticks and bark sticking right out the top when I light it, but the whole think should not be packed too tightly because you won't get enough air flow.
Anyhow, something to play around with. The top down burn is as much just for fun as it is for any real benefits. :)
This video lacks charm, but it is the only one that covers everything.
There are other ways, but this way is sort of the standard to work from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9qjKwC7co&list=QL
Key points:
1. Fill kettle with water first, to avoid spilling onto tinder.
2. Tinder goes into base next, without fuel sticks.
3. Place filled kettle onto base, holes facing wind, spout away from wind.
4. Cork must not be in spout, it is only to keep it clean when empty.
4. Stick fuel get dropped and packed vertically into kettle.
5. Light tinder through the air inlet, only after all of the above.
6. Have all your mugs ready before it starts to boil.
7. Drop more sticks in once it is going well, if needed.
8. Once boiling, lift with the handle horizontally, not vertically.
Fun variations on this.
1. You can play around with a top down burn. It's tricky, but fun.
2. Consider leaving the base home and improvising. Also fun.
3. With a base or firepit, you can plan it so that when you remove the kettle,
you have the start of a nice small campfire, but with hot coffee and food already made. ;)
4. Maybe inside a floorless tent or tarp you can make a small candle lantern or small oil lamp that fits into some sort of tin can that the Kelly Kettle sits on, so you can keep water warm while reading from the light. Maybe even heat up water, but its very slow this way. Careful of oil and wax lamps because the liquid fuel can ket crazy hot like 500degF, so make sure if it spills its a small amount and into dirt not running over your blue foam pad and onto your arm and belly or something like that.
Nice flue damper Zelph.
I don't make the fire that way, but it works really well for what you are doing because you can remove the kettle and have a cookfire. The stainless is good for that also because the aluminum bases can melt.
I use longer vertical sticks, and dry spruce branches snapped off the bottom of spruce trees are ideal for this, and very prevalent up here. If they snap off, they are dry. If you have to twist or cut them off its usally the wrong kind of tree and they don't burn as well. I use strips of paper birch mixed in and light it from the top. I don't use the base. I just put the kettle on a flat rock, with a few stones if an air gap is needed. On dry earth or sand I will just dig a little air tunnel. If the fuel is good and I get it right I don't have to drop in any extra sticks or bark and it just runs out of fuel as it comes to a full rolling boil in well under 10 minutes. If I want a campfire when I'm done making my tea and oatmeal or whatever, I drop in extra thick sticks as it is burning so that there is a good fire going even as I remove the kettle, and it all collapses into the pit I have made for it. I can't leave the aluminum kettle on without water because it will melt or burn or if nothing else leak at the seal. If it does leak a little it might reseal itself in time. I have gotten leaks from leaving the cork in. Dangerous thing to do.
I would suggest drilling a hole or something in the cork, so it can never be airtight, because sooner or later someone might leave it in and it seals itself pretty good and becomes a pressure cooker, which is really dangerous. I gave myself a bit of a scalding this summer, and my daughter was with me and it could have been much worse. It's tempting to put it in loose to keep some smoke out, but its too easy for it to fall in tighter once it starts to steam and condense around the cork. Even just some sort of notch into the side of the cork would work maybe.
Hi JAK, glad you like the flu damper. I made it a for the top so I can eliminate the Kettle base and do like you are doing, raising up one edge of it with a 3/4 dia. twig to let air in. and Yes, , once the water boils and the Kettle removed more twigs can be put into the stove to cook something directly on the stove.
Using a "basket" to contain the twigs really keeps the chimney of the Kettle clean. I'll try to do a short video showing the Kettle being wiped out for the very first time to see how much debris has accumulated. There is soot on the upper part of the chimney due to the damper cap slowing the burn rate of the fuel.
I like your idea of putting a groove down the side of the cork, thank you!!!
The inside of mine is right nasty, but I like it that way. I don't think its getting any worse. Nice thing about these kettles is that it is contained on teh inside. Still with stainless and all and and hardwood as fuel I can see it being more tempting to keep things shiny and new.
JAK, Top lighting is awesome. Watch this long video and Watch for the smoke.;) Very little smoke.
The Woodgaz stove is awesome and the Kelly Kettle also. Good base camp means of boiling 6 cups of water with one load of wood that is top lit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqZbV6FjkGg
"Terry_Dodson"
Stovemandan any more work on the MK1 or maybe a folding version yet? That's a quote from last weeks visit to Hammock Forums.net that inspired me to do the folding version. Over there my name is Stovemandan, my zelph name was already taken:rolleyes:
I liked his idea of a folding version so I put one together over the weekend and tried it out today. It was a bit windy but all turned out well. Even with all the heat loss due to wind and insufficient windscreen I was able to acheive a boil using one batch of maple wood. The wood was in the form of 1" diameter branch that I had cut into 2" length and then quartered the pieces into little split logs. I horizontal layered the pieces to the top of the 2" deep fire box. Places slivers of the wood on top and then used paper on top of that and then more slivers and then lit. The paper has a significant effect on the ignition of the fuel. 1. It protects the small initial fire. 2. It radiates heat downward toward the fuel to enhance it's burn-ability.
The stove weighs 3.9 ounces. Is 3.5 inches square and 5" tall. One inch taller than the round version. It is made of stainless steel.
Everyone can make one of galvanized hardware cloth.
I'll make some of these available in Nov. - Dec.
Big campout this week for a Halloween family get together. I'll be setting up my Grizz Bridge and Warbonnet to give them a try again. Lots of cooking to be done in a dutch oven and lots of water to boil in the Kelly Kettle:D We have to make the best of this terrific weather were having in the Midwest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9DYw4aBY1g
Hi Zelph:
I'd be interested in buying one of your folding woodburning stoves once you get some made. Please contact me with dimensions and a price if you're interested.
Thanks,
Steve
Hi Zelph:
I'd be interested in buying one of your folding woodburning stoves once you get some made. Please contact me with dimensions and a price if you're interested.
Thanks,
Steve
Hi Steve, thank you for your interest in this design. I've improved on it today by having it fold to a smaller size. Same stove, just one more fold to make it fit in a pocket if so desired. I'll have some stoves made by next week and will make a post here to let everyone know they are ready. A corrugated stainless steel ground protection sheet and a Tyvek stuff sack will be included.
Here is a copy of a post I made on Hammockforums today in regards to how the modification came into being.
The folding stove looks great!
How does it compare in burn to the Vargo woodstove? Seems like a similar weight (without using titanium). Is it necessary to precisely cut the wood pieces or can you just break them and stack in a criss-cross pattern in the firebox?
Your videos show wood that looks precisely sawn to length. Just wondering if that is necessary, or just to best way to pack more wood in.
I would definitely be interested in a stove like this. I like the foldable nature so you can easily pack it for a long day-hike in a small pack.
Hello glassymountain........It is not necessary to cut your fuel precisely. I did to show how easily it is to top light a large mass of wood using paper as part of the tinder. This past weekend I used slender pine cones curled up just as I curl the paper around the circumference of the stove. I always leave a central core open for air to enter the center of the stove. The fire box is only 2" in depth(stainless steel sheet metal area) The bushbuddy firebox is less in depth. A double wall of 2" is not going to pre heat the air to aid in combustion. Double wall stoves are packed to overflowing and block the so called secondary air holes.
LoveRise made a comment to one of my videos on the compact Woodgaz UL, here is what she said:
("LoveRise"
Great stove! Is there a way to alter is so it can fold up in the width of just one panel maybe by making it connect and disconnect so it would be a more compact package almost pocketable becaue I would be very interested in having access to a wood or alcohol stove that would fold flat and fit in my back pocket of my jeans.
Celebrate Life!
Laurie)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9DYw4a
I liked what she said and went ahead and modified the stove as you can see in this video made today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA_sdeDmkv8
I'll be posting more videos that were made this past week. I used various species of wood. I vertical stacked the twigs and top lit. I'll also show the progression of wood burning stoves that I have made over the past 2-3 years and how they relate to the culmination of design features found in this stove.
This stove design will perform as well as all ultra light stoves on the market. Burning twigs in it to boil 2 cups of water will never come near the temperatures required to melt it. Why use Titanium? I'm not going to use the stove as a step stool or throw it down the trail to see how tough the stainless steel is. It's tough!!!!
Busy summer:)
Here is how the stove has evolved. From a single fold to a multi fold pocket size. I have some available for those that like burning wood.
Stove size is 3.5"x5"
Will boil 4 cups of water on one load of wood. No need to do the twiggy feed.
It's a single wall stove that produces lots of wood gas and burned very well. Lots of videos on youtube showing many test burns for those that like to watch little fires.;)
I need some pointers on how to embed videos.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video29.mp4
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=2008-10-27085434.mp4
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=woodgazstovedemo2.mp4
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=FoldingWoodgazburndemo.mp4
(http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/Woodgaz%20Stove/?action=view¤t=Video29.mp4)
mkmangold
11-29-2010, 00:03
Busy summer:)
Here is how the stove has evolved. From a single fold to a multi fold pocket size. I have some available for those that like burning wood.
I need some pointers on how to embed videos.
Are you on facebook? Easy enough to embed videos.
When're headed up this way for some winter camping and to try out your stoves in the cold?
Are you on facebook? Easy enough to embed videos.
When're headed up this way for some winter camping and to try out your stoves in the cold?
The moderators are being conservative here. No YouTube embedding:rolleyes:
I'm heading up to the Sparta area In January. My bro-in-law has a cabin up there. Going to kick back, burn some wood and hope to hang in my Warbonnet Hammock to give it a test. There are some nice sheltered/secluded areas deep into his pine tree area. Lots of bear on his place, maybe feed some Ramen to them:D
I'm on facebook but do not frequent there, to many irons in the fire.:(
Oogie Boogie
12-18-2010, 20:08
@Zelph- By what reasoning is this a wood gas stove? There is no secondary burn of the the wood gases. It looks like a neat little creation.
Here is a graphic explanation of how a wood gas stove works:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Wood_gas_stove_Principle_of_operation.png
Nice theory Oogie Boogie (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=30646), but that isn't how it works in a backpacking size stove.
Oogie Boogie
12-22-2010, 17:46
Nice theory Oogie Boogie (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=30646), but that isn't how it works in a backpacking size stove.
Uhhh.... what?!?! I'm sorry, you didn't realize that that is EXACTLY how the Bushbuddy stove you have sitting on the table behind your folding stove operates, as does the Antig Woodlore, Four Dog Bush Cooker, my wood gas stove, and a ton of other wood gas stoves, all of which are designed from the ground up to be carried in backpacks and used to make stuff hot while in the field. It's not theory, it's proven fact, and 100% repeatable. Perhaps you should study up on the process of Gasification, and how a Secondary Burn takes place in a wood gas stove. It's not the same as with a single walled stove. Or... stick to alcohol stoves...?
Oogie Boogie
12-22-2010, 17:48
In fact, that diagram is just about the actual size of my compact model stove, for what it's worth, but the interior burn chamber and jet placement are slightly different.
In fact, that diagram is just about the actual size of my compact model stove, for what it's worth, but the interior burn chamber and jet placement are slightly different.
The information that I give is from my testing. I've shown videos and photos of my testing and that's all I can do.
The stove that you have made is an updraft stove. The nice diagram that you copied and pasted here is a "Coaxial downdraft gasification stove" as named in the wikipedia site. That type of stove is not what you are selling. You are being deceptive in the manner which you put forth information. No disrespect to you of course.
Your thinking is bassakwards. Your stove is an "updraft" stove.
The information that you pass on here just confuses the subject.
Search the threads in this forum and others for test results of single wall versus double wall backpacking size stoves. I have videos on youtube and photobucket of test results. There is too much to for me to locate and place it in front of you. My most recent tests are on Hammockforums.net in the section for donating members only. Go there and become a donating member and you'll be able to read some very conclusive test results.
I've done my homework, have taken the tests and have passed. I'm a wood burning "stovie":)
Oogie Boogie
01-13-2011, 01:04
The information that I give is from my testing. I've shown videos and photos of my testing and that's all I can do.
The stove that you have made is an updraft stove. The nice diagram that you copied and pasted here is a "Coaxial downdraft gasification stove" as named in the wikipedia site. ...
Your thinking is bassakwards. Your stove is an "updraft" stove.
Alright, you keep thinking that, if it makes you feel better. But I tell you now: the mechanism of a coaxial downdraft stove doesn't all of a sudden just miraculously change into an updraft stove at a certain scale size. It changes with port placement and a bunch of other factors, but what makes the mechanism of gasification work in a big one is the same thing that works in a small one. I think you've been misinterpreting information from folks like JUCA to suit your needs. But whatever. Good luck, dude.
unclemjm
01-13-2011, 02:30
Zelph, have you tried the folding WoodGaz with a Kelly Kettle?
Zelph, Can you get a 4 cup boil with only loading with wood one time? That looks like a Kmart grease pot your using in the video's ?
Also, pm me a price please. I have ordered from you before.
thanks for great products.
Zelph, have you tried the folding WoodGaz with a Kelly Kettle?
Hello Unclemjm. Yes, the stove fits nicely inside the base camp size kettle.
I heard you and Alan are going on an adventure soon and are sure to burn some wood.:) I wish I lived down your way where it's a whole lot warmer than Northern Illinois.
"Loneoak" Zelph, Can you get a 4 cup boil with only loading with wood one time? That looks like a Kmart grease pot your using in the video's ?
Also, pm me a price please. I have ordered from you before.
thanks for great products. Yes, I've boiled 4 cups several times on different occasions, using 1 load of pine per 4 cups. It really is a pleasant way to heat water. Feeding twigs into a stove is the norm. Batch loading is the new way to do wood fires. There is a lot less smoke doing the top light, vertical stack method.
I just completed a dozen stoves and are now available again at my stove store. The price is there at the store site. (http://www.woodgaz-stove.com)
Just curious..........has anyone made one of these stoves out of 1/2" hardware cloth yet? Just looking at the one I made out of stainless you can get the dimensions.
Zelph,
Would a triangle shaped version of this work you think? Also I am interested in possibly making one of these for solo use. I boil 2 cups of water at a time max.
Thoughts?
Zelph,
Would a triangle shaped version of this work you think? Also I am interested in possibly making one of these for solo use. I boil 2 cups of water at a time max.
Thoughts?
Yes, I see no reason why it would not. Make the fire box portion 2" high and the distance from fire box top to the stove top the same as in the woodgaz. Don't cut yourself short on volume. Make it so you can load it vertical stacked and top light it. Adjust the size if necessary to get the boil with one load of wood.
Yes, I see no reason why it would not. Make the fire box portion 2" high and the distance from fire box top to the stove top the same as in the woodgaz. Don't cut yourself short on volume. Make it so you can load it vertical stacked and top light it. Adjust the size if necessary to get the boil with one load of wood.
Isn't the Woodgaz firebox 2" high? So are you suggesting making it the same height total at 5"? I was hoping to do something shorter/smaller. I have no experience in this, would be my 1st attempt at it, so I appreciate your input. I want to put together a basic design before I go grab the hardware cloth and such.
Make it the size that's going to work for you.
Make your design out of paper and see how it looks assembled. If it looks good to you, get the materials and put one together.