View Full Version : water supply etiquette
stonedflea
09-07-2010, 13:35
hey guys...
i haven't done enough long distance hiking to have any experience with water purification and the like. i've not thru-hiked to see what kinds of water sources there are on the AT... tiny streams vs. awesome rivers.
that being said, do people get mad if they see a dog in a creek cooling off? what's the etiquette there? as long as it's downstream from a campsite, is it generally ok as long as your pup doesn't stir up dirt and silt, etc.?
and if people do get bent out of shape about it, why? i'm sure bears and other critters play in the streams all the time.
anyways... i was just wondering what the general idea towards dogs in the water is out on the trail. =) thanks!
OutdoorsMan
09-07-2010, 13:49
People most definately will get upset if they see a dog in the water at or above a water point.
Unlike many, I love (well behaved) dogs on the trail. A well behaved dog should only enter water with his master's permission.
Large streams/rivers should not be an issue as water is safest from smaller springs.
Your question displays that you are probably a responsible dog owner and I hope to meet you and your dog on the trail someday.
cans and cans of worms!!! just kidding. there are an insane amount of hikers that absolutely $hit a brick about anything to do with dogs on the trail, so be prepared for some pretty negative responses. take it with a grain of salt, it's not personal, it's just that there are alot of irresponsible dog owners out there. the fact that you are concerned with this issue tends to make me believe you are not one of those.
i allow my dogs to cool of in creeks all the time. however, they have been trained to do it "downstream" from where people get their water. i watch them constantly though while they are there.
for me, it's a sediment issue, (basic consideration) pure and simple. the people that complain about germs really shouldn't be in the woods anyway. deer, raccoons, etc pee all the time in the water.
thanks for being considerate enough to ask! and welcome to wb.
cans and cans of worms!!! just kidding. there are an insane amount of hikers that absolutely $hit a brick about anything to do with dogs on the trail, so be prepared for some pretty negative responses. take it with a grain of salt, it's not personal, it's just that there are alot of irresponsible dog owners out there. the fact that you are concerned with this issue tends to make me believe you are not one of those.
i allow my dogs to cool of in creeks all the time. however, they have been trained to do it "downstream" from where people get their water. i watch them constantly though while they are there.
for me, it's a sediment issue, (basic consideration) pure and simple. the people that complain about germs really shouldn't be in the woods anyway. deer, raccoons, etc pee all the time in the water.
thanks for being considerate enough to ask! and welcome to wb.
:eek::eek::eek:...i'll never be able to set foot in the woods again
I used to not have an opinion about dogs on the trail one way or another until I was charged by a growling German Shepard.
It's owner called him back and said "sorry..." in a timid voice. Yeah, right....
Now I don't want to see them near water or anywhere else on a trail.
I agree with OM. I'm a dog person myself and hope to take my new rescue on a section this year.
However, an ill-behaved dog is definitely not welcome. Last year I was on a very dry section. When I finally found a puddle to filter from, a dog passing by off-leash happily splashed right into the water and slurped/muddied it up. I had to wait some time for the water to settle. The hikers saw and passed by without comment or apology. And we wonder why there are negative feelings... Thanks!
Control is a huge issue fro those of us that are not dog lovers. My first experience with dogs on the trail was a negative one as two black labs proceeded to trot up and begin lapping water in a stream where I was pumping water. One would later eat part of another hikers supper and then at breakfast we all awoke to find a pile of dog scat near the shelter's picnic table.
My next encounter was positive however as I camped five nights in a row with the owners (and masters) of another black lab who never caused a problem in five days.
:eek::eek::eek:...i'll never be able to set foot in the woods again
woman, i have never once heard you complain..
I do get angry when people let their dogs play in the water I want to drink. I think it is rude. Would you like it if I stripped naked and stuck my nethers into the water you wanted to drink?
middle to middle
09-07-2010, 14:52
When walking through Virginia several times encountered packs of domestic tagged dogs running deer. Deer at full gallop way ahead of dogs. Dogs trying their best to persue.
Llama Legs
09-07-2010, 16:41
Would you like it if I stripped naked and stuck my nethers into the water you wanted to drink?
...and that's why I try and get to the shelter first !
wirerat123
09-07-2010, 16:49
I can't understand the big issue with walking a few yards upstream of where a dog is cooling off. Feeling a little overly entitled are we? 10-K, if you have a problem with Dogs on trail I'd suggest finding trails where dogs aren't allowed. Because if they are allowed, they will be there, some good and well behaved, some as stupid as their owners. Not amount of griping, whining, or preaching will change that.
I love some of the smug behavior from some of those in these types of forums. Acting as if the world is theirs. Go tell that to the Moose who just took a leak in the river 200yds up stream, or the Bear a mile up that ten minutes ago took a massive dump in the pool you will later come along and pump from.
Dog lovers won't mind. Those who don't like dogs will. Use common sense, and courtesy.
I'm a dog lover - we have 3 rescued from the animal shelter. Dogs are fine, cool and all that.
Letting one run out of control in a public place is irresponsible and dangerous.
Many Walks
09-07-2010, 17:11
I like dogs and have had them most of my life. I believe most people would agree the problem with dogs on the trail isn't with the one's whose owners ensure their dogs are well behaved in a manner that is respectful of the other hikers. The problem is with the owners who allow their dogs to frolic in the water source and stir up the muck, because afterward they usually tramp through the mud and head to the shelter to bark at other hikers, jump all over everyone's gear shaking water and mud all over everything, and then try to steal everyone's food. Dogs won't behave as long as their owners are oblivious to their pets obnoxious behavior. I have no issue with well behaved dogs on the trail, but I detest a dog whose owner just lets it run rampant imposing on other's space. I believe in HYOH, but the flip side of that is to keep your dog out of my hike unless I welcome it.
. . . .Would you like it if I stripped naked and stuck my nethers into the water you wanted to drink?Absolutely!
Waters sources should be respected - there are lots of hikers behind you! It's one thing for the creatures in the woods to get into them, but dog poop near a water source is oh-so-gross.
Just a thought.....do you want your dog(or someone else's) to drink, hang out or pee in your kitchen sink when you're home :)
I don't mind dogs on trail, but do mind the crap left behind that owners don't pick up or bury, especially around camping areas. Otherwise, they usually make me smile when I meet them, they are having a great time out there.....
woman, i have never once heard you complain..
and you never will, i just do my own thang and stay clean
Sierra Echo
09-07-2010, 18:52
I recommend that people watch their dogs around postal carriers. Some postal carriers are trigger happy with their doggy mace.
I don't get it. Must be a cultural difference.
Here is another example of cultural difference. I like the big tree. I think the neighbours should all be fined for not growing bigger trees...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11211538
. . . .Some postal carriers are trigger happy with their doggy mace.'Cause it's fun! :banana
We met great dogs on our section. My only complaint was all the doggy do in the grassy area where we were tenting and cooking near the shelter and only water source. This was in April. I cannot even imagine what it was like in June. Please take your dog outside the tenting area, to do the business.
Whatever you do, just imagine you are the next person pumping water out of it to drink. Then imagine that the person is not pumping or filtering at all. I do filter, but some on this site do not.
But then again, I think the responsible and considerate hikers do ask about etiquette and such.
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 01:00
i didnt read all the posts, this might have been said before. you are supposed to have a water dish and not allow dogs to drink from water sources, accordding to the aldha.. "carry a water bowl so your dog wont drink directly from the trailside water sources" this quote from the 2010 thru hikers companion.
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 01:04
another quote "treat your dog as another backpacker. That means bury its waste as you would your own" alos check the female forum post, dogs arent allowed in a few state parks including baxter, so your dog wont be able to finish the trail with you. more info on the dog post in the female forum
Wise Old Owl
09-18-2010, 22:16
I do get angry when people let their dogs play in the water I want to drink. I think it is rude. Would you like it if I stripped naked and stuck my nethers into the water you wanted to drink?
We are on the same page... However, Have you ever hiked upstream to get a better source and discovered trash, dead animals, frog eggs, or coon scat on a rock? It's all pointless, purify and filter your water when possible.
Its really not about the dog, We humans have spread more disease, rats, rodents and killed off more natives. Malaria, Disentary, Guardia, Chicken Pox, some of it in the name of religion by missionaries. Ever wondered how rats are alive today on remote pacific islands? We put them there by accident.
With exception to those like LW with a great immune system who don't worry about it, Take a filter. Its all relative...
I like the idea of filling my water bottle from a mountain stream so I use a Katadyn.
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=260100333149&id=cda6c8343f872b1bb4a80053a9ef235c&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.hikingwaterfilters.com%2fimag es%2fkatadynmicrofilterwaterbottle.jpeg (http://www.hikingwaterfilters.com/images/katadynmicrofilterwaterbottle.jpeg)
knicksin2010
09-18-2010, 22:36
If you've been on the trail for 10 minutes and sit by while your dog rubs its anus on the only spring for several miles - I'll be displeased. Sure, wild animals may have done it already, but I'd like it if you told your dog not to rub its butt there.
Wise Old Owl
09-18-2010, 23:37
Knick I suspect that was directed to my post and so would I be displeased. I hike the AT and discover Toilet Paper and plop right in the middle of the trail, not everyone gets it, and I wasn't arguing...
Some people really do $hit in the woods and the water sources out there. Take a filter.
Rain Man
09-19-2010, 12:24
Right you are. Birds may dump around shelter picnic tables, but that doesn't mean dog owners should take their dogs to dump there. What is it with bad dog owners who make all kinds of excuses and silly rationalizations for their BAD behavior?!
Rain Man
If you've been on the trail for 10 minutes and sit by while your dog rubs its anus on the only spring for several miles - I'll be displeased. Sure, wild animals may have done it already, but I'd like it if you told your dog not to rub its butt there.
Wise Old Owl
09-19-2010, 13:04
Hiker Dog owners should be on board, the average Erbanite with a dog ...not so much.
There is a new steath cam pro that takes movies for hunters, mount one over a water source near a road access and I know it will prove the point. I have already seen this on the trail.
drifters quest
09-25-2010, 23:13
If you have a good dog 99.9% of people will be happy to see you and him. As for your water source question.. for me it depended on the source. If it was a large creek with a rocky bottom running well i was fine with my dog going in and drinking, after all, there are much worse things in the water and its flowing well. If there was a good spot to fill up, I would make sure she was downstream of that when she drank. Small springs, standing water, and slow running streams with mud were a different story and I always used her bowl.
If its a fast moving stream or river- no big deal. Not the best source unless you do filter or treat. :)
Never let your dog drink from a spring or slow moving source.;)
There are very few mean anti dog folks actually on the trail. Many more on the net. If your dog is acting a fool however- someone may just say something- and you should listen.:-?
IronGutsTommy
09-26-2010, 00:42
no matter where a dog goes in, theres someone inevitably downstream from there collecting water, especially during spring and summer. the ALDHA frowns upon it as stated but dog owners will let them do what they want regardless of how or if it affects others. i treat my water so it doesnt really matter to me, long as a dog doesnt attempt to swipe any food im ok with them. dont get me wrong i love dogs and own one, but dogs are like peoples children, and thus can do no wrong in the owners eyes, even if they do so.
Forever North
09-26-2010, 01:46
There is really no such thing a bad dog, only bad dog owners. Most of these hikers are just plan ignorant of what they are letting their dogs do on the trail or at a water source. If we try to help the owners to understand our concerns without anger and try and teach them the diffrence. Just like the dog the owner too can learn and become a better dog owner while they are on the trail.
My very first hike I took my dog. I knew NOTHING about the AT (but where I could find it) and very very little about hiking or about hiking with my dog (you should have seen the gear I had). It was the other hikers on the trail that tought me about the AT and how to survive while on it. We also talked about diffrent subjects along with dogs and every subject under the sun. This is how I learned not only to be a better person but also a better dog owner too. Other dog owner can learn also, it all about useing the proper approch toward a dog owner without anger.
no matter where a dog goes in, theres someone inevitably downstream from there collecting water, especially during spring and summer. .
That is simply not true.:(
I have more concerns over what people do to water sources than dogs, and there are a lot more people on the trail than dogs.
4eyedbuzzard
09-27-2010, 00:37
no matter where a dog goes in, theres someone inevitably downstream from there collecting water
That is simply not true.:(
Well, as the AT is usually up on or nearer the ridgeline than other trails, it often is true that the same streams (or sources/springs that feed them) are used by hikers downstream on other trails, or on the AT itself. Add that often the AT will follow streams when coming off ridgelines, going into gaps, etc., and follow or cross the same stream multiple times. I can guaranty you that here in the Whites, most of the water sources used by hikers on the AT are used downstream by hikers on the many other trails in the area.
I have more concerns over what people do to water sources than dogs, and there are a lot more people on the trail than dogs.
Definitely.
Jester2000
09-27-2010, 01:11
I can't understand the big issue with walking a few yards upstream of where a dog is cooling off. Feeling a little overly entitled are we? 10-K, if you have a problem with Dogs on trail I'd suggest finding trails where dogs aren't allowed. Because if they are allowed, they will be there, some good and well behaved, some as stupid as their owners. Not amount of griping, whining, or preaching will change that.
I love some of the smug behavior from some of those in these types of forums. Acting as if the world is theirs. Go tell that to the Moose who just took a leak in the river 200yds up stream, or the Bear a mile up that ten minutes ago took a massive dump in the pool you will later come along and pump from.
I agree with this completely, which is why I take a dump in every stream the AT crosses. All of the smug, entitled hikers can walk upstream from the Jester scat. If the moose and bear are doing it, why should I bother controlling myself?
Well, as the AT is usually up on or nearer the ridgeline than other trails, it often is true that the same streams (or sources/springs that feed them) are used by hikers downstream on other trails, or on the AT itself. Add that often the AT will follow streams when coming off ridgelines, going into gaps, etc., and follow or cross the same stream multiple times. I can guaranty you that here in the Whites, most of the water sources used by hikers on the AT are used downstream by hikers on the many other trails in the area.
While your statement is correct, it doesn't really support what Tommy said. "Inevitably doesn't mean "usually" "often" or even "most of."
Would you like it if I stripped naked and stuck my nethers into the water you wanted to drink?
For the answer to this I refer you to my website, Jesterwantstodrinkyourbathwater.com
IronGutsTommy
09-27-2010, 01:28
well at any rate, the aldha frowns upon dog hikers letting their dogs into the water supplies, but what do they know, right? that seems to be the concensus. interesting to see such a lack of respect for ALDHAs rules and suggestions. i guess Leave no trace is a pointless stupid rule too
IronGutsTommy
09-27-2010, 01:29
thats what im gonna do sbhikes, start chopping down trees and tea bagging all the water supplies. mee meee meee
4eyedbuzzard
09-27-2010, 01:34
I agree with this completely, which is why I take a dump in every stream the AT crosses. All of the smug, entitled hikers can walk upstream from the Jester scat. If the moose and bear are doing it, why should I bother controlling myself?
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS1I7iR0Uc8qoHYdgTKv1cp9yZJBY5l 4GrItmxSSQgyGXQO_A&t=1&usg=__g3wPlU7KW0S425LdwBfH3SPdD5g=
While your statement is correct, it doesn't really support what Tommy said. "Inevitably doesn't mean "usually" "often" or even "most of."
Inevitably, someone is always picky, picky, picky...
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPYGV9iV-pizOQJ18cSrCDTZ9yzNIYl97xkxFGqTEl-5IkJjw&t=1&usg=__rEf3rWRdRfUHJ--q4_FqzPPvwIw=
From this thread I am getting the impression that it is frowned upon for people to wade or swim in water sources on the trail. Is that the case?
4eyedbuzzard
09-27-2010, 01:42
From this thread I am getting the impression that it is frowned upon for people to wade or swim in water sources on the trail. Is that the case?
I'm thinking it's the peeing and pooing and washing, whether done by humans or dogs that upsets people. Yes, the bears and raccoons and whatever else likely do so. Doesn't mean that hikers or their dogs have to add to it though. So if you or your dog are wading or swimming, refrain from excreting bodily fluid and solids and using soap while in the water.
IronGutsTommy
09-27-2010, 01:44
i used to think so, but it seems im in the minority. according to most posters you can do anything u damn well please. but although washing isnt directly covered in the thru hikers companion, they do ask you to dig a hole for pooping and cover it up when done. its not a huge jump to figure theyd prefer one to gather water from a water source in a tote or platypus, venture away from the water source, and clean oneself that way. i could be wrong and apparently am. i guess even though thousands share the trail every year standard hiker etiquete is to only think of oneself while on the trail
I think I have the restrictions on excreting or washing in water sources pretty clear. And I didn't need to come to this site to learn that. However, from a couple of things that were said here it seems that even people wading or swimming in the water was problematic for some.
IronGutsTommy
09-27-2010, 01:58
as far as that, the thread was asking about dogs. unlike people, theres no guarantee a dog wont go from cooling off to peeing while in the water. i think people taking a cooling dip is fine, i think the geral view on people wading etc is thumbs up
Must of missed a few post.:rolleyes:
If its big enough for people and dogs to swim in you can most likely find a better source for drinkin water on the AT.:)
NEVER use ANY kind of soap in any water source.:mad:
Whats not clear?:confused:
as far as that, the thread was asking about dogs. unlike people, theres no guarantee a dog wont go from cooling off to peeing while in the water. i think people taking a cooling dip is fine, i think the geral view on people wading etc is thumbs up
I saw a guy with a poop shovel in one hand and a roll of toilet paper in the other walking down the blue blaze to a water source. Don't be so sure that people have better sense than dogs.