View Full Version : Mileage for a newbie?
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 03:09
It is 3am and I cant sleep. My whole body just hurts. I am bruised, blistered and scraped. I have lost 2 toenails so far and I can barely walk. I am NOT exaggerating. I have never felt a world of hurt quite like this.
I experienced my first two days on the trail with a pack Monday and Tuesday. Walking with an experienced hiker, CamoJack, we covered 11 miles each day - starting at (I think) Connecticut 41, Under Mountain Road and finishing at U.S. 7 in Sheffield, Massachusetts.
My pack, a LL Bean White Mountain weighed in at 35-40 pounds with 5 liters of water (yes, I needed that much, I drank it all both days) and food for two days. I know I need to find a way to lighten the load because there was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet. And I wore Merrill Moab booths with Smart Wool socks.
I can tell ya, I didnt expect the trail to be what it was, all up, down, up, down, up, up, up, up, up, up, down, down, down. I didnt expect to have to climb straight up and then go straight down. Some of it was actually SCARY and I think I just learned that I am afraid of heights.
I am physically fit - an avid runner and cyclist. And I have lifted weights for more than two years. But this was an endurance work out unlike any I have ever experienced. So tell me...was this just too many miles for a newbie to start out with? Or is this just not going to happen for me? :)
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 03:15
your pack weight could be the culprit.. 35 to 40 is alot. generally u want ur pack weight to be one fifth of your body weight (20%), fully loaded with water and food. unless you weight 180 or more you just need to find ways to lighten your load, that should help. less weight less strain on your body. 11 is at the high end a bit, they recommended mileage is about 5 to 10 miles a day til u get ur trail legs, about 2 to 3 weeks, then its usually upped to 15, 20 a day. but those numbers vary person to person. i think the pack weight was your only setback. try to trim it down to 20% or less and u should notice a big difference
aaronthebugbuffet
09-08-2010, 03:22
Two toenails lost after two 11 mile days?
Are your shoes too tight?
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 03:22
hah did my math wrong. to carry 40 lbs you should weigh around 200.
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 03:24
yeah shoes sound tight too. remember your feet expand from all the walking, sometimes ppl will gain a shoe size while on the trail. what fits in the store may prove too tight on the trail
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 03:30
Ooohhh, no...I no longer weigh in excess of 200lbs. I am about 135 right now. My running shoe size is a 7.5 and my hiking boots are a size 8. They were professionally fitted at the LL Bean Flagship in Freeport. I tried on many pairs, walked in them, etc. They feel good on my feet. Merrill Moab.
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 03:34
ok 135.. you should aim for a pack weight around 27 pounds. 40 is he man status at your size
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 03:40
Looks like I am buying more new gear - all light weight, because I cannot figure any other way to reduce it other than replacing what I already bought with lighter options. There was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet. So back to the outfitters :)
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 03:45
you can carry aquamira tabs and forgo the water filter , pads are kinda light.. u should list all that you carried, alot of people know more than I do. its possible youre just carrying unneeded clothes or equipment. if u made a list i bet ppl would be glad to help find ways for you to cut the weight down
aaronthebugbuffet
09-08-2010, 03:47
Looks like I am buying more new gear - all light weight, because I cannot figure any other way to reduce it other than replacing what I already bought with lighter options. There was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet. So back to the outfitters :)
Do a ton of research so you don't waste money. There's a lot of lightweight options that may not be available at your local outfitter.
kayak karl
09-08-2010, 04:13
ok 135.. you should aim for a pack weight around 27 pounds. 40 is he man status at your size
thats just numbers and its ....... a 300lb man should carry a 60# pack? LOL
i watched 100# women hike past me with 35# packs. with the 20% theory you will never be able to hike the 100 mi. wilderness.
for your feet go back to the professionals at the LL Bean Flagship in Freeport.
were your laces tight? you weren't wearing sock liners were you??
aaronthebugbuffet
09-08-2010, 04:19
with the 20% theory you will never be able to hike the 100 mi. wilderness.
Not necessarily true.
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 04:22
hey dont shoot the messenger, that 20 percent thing came from backpacker.com but ann, may i suggest you go to the thru hiker specific category in the forum and find a post called help with gear list. its originally by tamijo i believe.. in it ppl post on various ways of cutting weight down and getting rid of unneeded items.
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 04:23
ps should be on first page of threads, no hunting needed
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 04:26
similar post by tamijo in the female topic forum as well
A better rule of thumb is height x height = max pack weight.
For 5 feet, 25 pounds. For 5.5 feet, 30 pounds. For 6 feet, 36 pounds.
If you are overweight, you need to carry considerably less, not more.
Outfitters will ALWAYS sell you too much gear and clothing if you let them.
That's what they do.
brotheral
09-08-2010, 05:59
That's just too many miles on that type of terrain...with unfamiliar gear. The idea is to ease into this. Make sure your gear (boots & pack) fits properly and is comfortable via shorter hikes 1st, then go longer. Have fun and don't feel like you have to impress anyone.
Sierra Echo
09-08-2010, 06:17
I have news for you. You got back out in those same boots, you are going to lose some more toenails. I was "professionally fitted" for a pair of
Merrills too. And they felt great walking around on the store floor and on flat trail. As soon as I got into the big hills I had problems. Here is the thread about it:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62978
Bottom line is, most women wear boots that are to tight. When you have your boots on, bend your knees like you are skiing. While doing that, you should be able to easily stick a finger down the back of your boots. If you cant do this then your boots are too tight. Your feet are nothing to mess around with.
Looks like I am buying more new gear - all light weight, because I cannot figure any other way to reduce it other than replacing what I already bought with lighter options. There was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet. So back to the outfitters :)
Before you go back to the outfitters, you might want to check out your recycling bin and even Salvation Army/Wal-Mart.
I am thinking disposable water bottles (much lighter than Nalgenes, etc and good for alcohol fuel also) and stoves (home made from cans), old nylon running shorts and such. And a old cheaply made aluminum pot, a big spoon and light plastic mugs?
And how about all the stuff you didn't use (or didn't need to use) on your hike?
As for carrying 5 liters of water, that can make sense but not usually. Didn't you pass any streams along the way when you had a couple of full bottles in your pack.
BTW, one thing that a lot of people don't say much is that backpacking does hurt. Perhaps not as much once you get your trail legs, but thats the truth.
The best way to minimize the hurt is to adjust the number of hours you are hiking in a day, IMHO. But nothing wrong with some aches.
No way you should have lost toe nails right out of the gate like that. I suggest that you consider going out in a proven pair of your work sneakers next time, and perhaps keep any eye our for trail runners like New Balance or some clone.
The Mountain Crossings Gear List (http://www.backpacker.com/november_08_pack_man_/articles/12659?page=4) on the top end is only 18 lbs- and that's a winter pack!
On last years thru I averaged 16 miles per day with a total of 7 zero days. Some did more, some did less.
Doc Mike
09-08-2010, 07:27
It is 3am and I cant sleep. My whole body just hurts. I am bruised, blistered and scraped. I have lost 2 toenails so far and I can barely walk. I am NOT exaggerating. I have never felt a world of hurt quite like this.
Not such prettywoman feet now.
Just kidding, In my opinion and I think others may agree. You should always break in shoes/boots prior to an extended hiking trip. I'm not familar with the boots you had but some will take weeks to break in and some need almost no time for break in. Yours since you lost 2 toenails obviously needed more time than was allotted.
As far as pack weight that is all over the range with opinions but my son (115 pounds) can go all day with a 20-25 pound pack so my opinion is you will need to be under 30 for comfort.
Better luck on your next trip.
Doc Mike
think0075
09-08-2010, 07:42
thats just numbers and its ....... a 300lb man should carry a 60# pack? LOL
i watched 100# women hike past me with 35# packs. with the 20% theory you will never be able to hike the 100 mi. wilderness.
for your feet go back to the professionals at the LL Bean Flagship in Freeport.
were your laces tight? you weren't wearing sock liners were you??
That is the most absurd thing i have ever heard, there are tons of people who hike the 100 mile wilderness carrying 20 % or even less of their bodyweight. not everyone needs to wear sock liners.
Try your current running shoes on a day hike. Up down turn around.
Day pack at most. Drink water at the vehicle.
Lots of attention to footwork and balance.:)
......not everyone needs to wear sock liners.
Agreed.
Remember the inside double loop construction of most quality hiking socks such as Darn Tough of Vermont or Bridgedale Endurance Trekker's also act as a "liner".
Why spend money on a liner if you don't need them? Oh, and stay away from socks that have a generic "cushion-sole"!
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 08:59
Try your current running shoes on a day hike. Up down turn around.
Day pack at most. Drink water at the vehicle.
Lots of attention to footwork and balance.:)
Never, ever, ever would I wear running shoes on those rocks. I rolled my ankles dozens of times, without the support of the boots there would have at least been a good sprain, possibly a break. As it is, an old ankle injury (bad bad break) from years ago is hurting.
As others have said, your shoes sound like they are are grossly undersized. Don't be scared to go up 2 sizes or more. Try on men's shoes, supposedly they are wider.
I just read your journal and you said weren't taking breaks to air out your feet. That's part of the problem of hiking with others. Try altering how you hike with others to better suit your hiking style. It does a lot of good to stop for 10-15 minutes to take off your shoes and socks and massage your feet for a few minutes.
You still carrying 2 metal bottles? Did you even do the boiling water thing? I'd dump at least one bottle. If you're regularly warming two bottles to stay warm at night, you need to select warmer sleeping gear. Those bottles and extra fuel are causing you to carry at least half a pound extra all the time, and probably over a pound at the trailhead due to extra fuel, not to mention being forced to walk into camp with at least 2 liters of water. I'd much rather have an extra pound of down insulation in my sleeping bag.
And back to water again. You can reduce water weight in your pack by drinking as much water as you can while at water sources. Planning to sleep near water will allow you to carry progressively less water weight as you approach camp.
I'd say post a gear list, but I'd rather that you closely evaluate the gear you used on this last trip and think hard about what you can eliminate. Do more trips and learn more about what you can do to reduce weight and suffer less.
Did jack set the pace? If u tried keepin a 3mph pace as a newbie you will suffer. The first couple times set your own pace and take a lotta breaks. My 1st time i was tryin ta keep up with thru hikers in VT and was hurting after a couple days. Now i average 15-18 a day and thats with a 10:00 start. It'll get easier.
Gotta watch that Cammo Jack...
A modern day warrior
Mean mean stride,
Today's Tom Sawyer
Mean mean pride.
Though his mind is not for rent
Don't put him down as arrogant
His reserve, a quiet defense
Riding out the day's events
The river
Never, ever, ever would I wear running shoes on those rocks. I rolled my ankles dozens of times, without the support of the boots there would have at least been a good sprain, possibly a break. As it is, an old ankle injury (bad bad break) from years ago is hurting.
Are the boots really helping you out if you're still rolling your ankle dozens of times? The tall soles of those boots may be contributing to your ankle problems. You may not need ankle support if shoes with thinner soles don't create the torque that's rolling your ankles. Shoes with thinner soles tend to be lighter too, and that should allow you to walk faster, burn less energy, and probably breathe better too.
I started this year hiking with leather boots. The sides suffered a lot of scrapes from all the ankle rolling. I also suffered an ankle injury that eventually took me off the trail. I later switched to lightweight shoes that don't have all the side scrapes like the leather boots had. I'm pretty sure I rolled my ankles less.
garlic08
09-08-2010, 09:33
Hiking is supposed to be fun. So yes, you obviously hiked too many miles for your experience level. You carried too much stuff over too much terrain in ill-fitting footwear. I know, message from Planet Obvious. But you asked. And I can imagine that everyone responding here has done pretty much the same thing.
One of my favorite sayings goes, "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." You just got some experience. Learn from it. Hopefully, at some level at least, you enjoyed the hiking and will go out and try again with this whole load of wisdom you painfully gained.
There's no longer any need to carry 20% of one's body weight. Good inexpensive lightweight gear is available now ($120 packs at less than a pound, $200 shelters at less than two pounds, sleeping pads at $30 and 8 oz, Aquamira at $12 and 3 oz, etc). I routinely hike well over 100 miles with no resupply, in dry country, carrying less than 15% of my body weight (I'm 150#), and it's fun and painless. I sure didn't start out that way, though! Good luck figuring out what works for you.
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 09:41
Give me some boot suggestions!
If you don't want to transition to low top trail runners yet, take a look at the Inov-8 Roclite 390. They used to have a non-goretex version of that shoe, but sadly, they've decided to stop producing that version. Their Terroc shoes are wider, but none with high tops.
You might also want to take a look at Vibram Fivefinger shoes. I hate to suggest adding more weight (~10-12 ounces), but it may be worth carrying a set of those Vibrams in your pack on your next hike. At some point try switching shoes for a couple miles and see how they work for you. If it doesn't work, you should still be able to utilize them at home for jogging and the gym.
Mountain Wildman
09-08-2010, 09:59
I recently bought a pair of Oboz, If I recall the company was started by Execs from Montrail and Vasque, though I could be wrong, Anyway, I went to Eastern Mountain Sports and tried on their Firebrand Men's and they are the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn, wearing them now, They have gender specific:http://www.obozfootwear.com/site/xdpy/ss/Womens.html
Might be worth checking them out.
I have a pair of Vasque Velocity's and they are very comfortable as well but they are Trail Runners, My Asolo Fugitives are ok but hurt my feet after several hours of wear.
mountain squid
09-08-2010, 10:18
I also think that 11 miles per day was too much. That is one of the disadvantages of hiking with someone - you're less likely to want to split up even if it is necessary. Lesson learned though. Now you know some of your own limitations. Once you've been on the trail for a few weeks though, an 11 mile day will be too short (unless you're hitting town:D).
Your pack might be on the heavy side as well. You might consider posting your complete gear list for scrutiny asking specifically for lightweight alternatives, as you mentioned. I highlighted 'complete' because ounces add up to pounds rather quickly and you might be carrying alot of superfluous little things. I would also suggest posting your list before purchasing new gear and researching everything as aaronthebugbuffet suggested.
Additionally, 5 liters of water in summer might be necessary at times. If you are starting in Mar/Apr you likely will not need to carry that much all the time. By the time summer comes around you will have your hiking legs and you will also probably know where the dry stretches of trail are, which might require carrying additional water. (On the other hand, typical resupply is 3-5 days, so you'll likely be carrying more food on your thru . . )
:)At any rate, don't get discouraged. When you start your thru, plan low mileage days in the beginning. Take lots of breaks and allow your feet to air out whenever you can. And, before you know it, you'll be pushing 20's like they are nothing . . .
See you on the trail,
mt squid
PS. You've got too many http's in your journal link.
rpenczek
09-08-2010, 10:19
Few things (others have suggested similar)
1. Post your total gear set on WB along with weights - you will be amazed at the good suggestions you will get about replacements. Remember to include EVERYTHING.
2. If and when you replace gear, the fastest way to cut weight is bag, pack and shelter.
3. Learn to use water treatment tablets vs a filter, sooo much lighter and easier (pumping gets old).
4. Unless the trail is totally dry, don't carry so much water. At the begining and at each additional water stop, not only refill your water bottles, BUT DRINK AS MUCH AS YOU CAN HOLD (LIKE YOUR GONNA PUKE FROM TOO MUCH WATER). Also, begin to add additional hydration several days before your hike begins.
5. When I started backpacking, 5 miles was a killer (in the Indiana flat lands in the summer heat). I have much more experience now and am 80 pounds lighter, but I still don't like to go much more than about 12 miles a day, I like some camp time to relax. When I take boys (Scouts) backpacking for the first time we stick to 5 miles days and quickly build to 7 or 8 (second trip). Your body (muscles) needs time to adjust to carring the pack and walking on uneven (rock/root) footing.
6. Boots/shoes - this is really a personal preference (full leather or trail runner), but your current shoes are obviously not right given the toe nail loss. Take them back and get your cash. I love my full leather Asolos, but am considering a switch to trail runners now that I have lost weight. Its a hard call given never having had a bilster. Oh ya, I don't really believe my high top full leather boots add to stability (keep me from rolling). But I do belive that the foot bed and sole are much more sturdy and does not break down as quickly as trail runners (read continued support over time and I don't feel the rocks on the soles of my feet). But with the significant weight loss (you are light too), trail runners should be able to handle me now. Why not give your regular running shoes a try?
camojack
09-08-2010, 10:29
Did jack set the pace? If u tried keepin a 3mph pace as a newbie you will suffer. The first couple times set your own pace and take a lotta breaks. My 1st time i was tryin ta keep up with thru hikers in VT and was hurting after a couple days. Now i average 15-18 a day and thats with a 10:00 start. It'll get easier.
Jack stopped a lot, especially at difficult sections of descent to help advise how to approach them, and just to allow her to catch up sometimes. So no, I really didn't set the pace. I also gave her options for bailing early, but she was a trooper and carried on.
Of course carrying less weight would help, so there are items that could be changed to lighter ones...like no metal water bottle, for example. Possibly what others have said about the boots being too tight was correct. My advice was Superfeet inserts and trekking poles, but I did get her to use a hiking staff fashioned from deadfall found on the trail...
i'd say try day hiking several times without any gear. if you cant do 10-15 miles a day without a heavy backpack and not feel hurt afterwards then attempting it with one definitely isnt going to do you any good.
the contributors here routinely throw around 10 miles a day as a reasonable starting figure for mileage.
I sure didn't find it to be so. 5 to 8 miles per day and I was whipped. I too was fit and ran and biked a lot. It doesn't really help hiking muscles. at least not so as I noticed while hiking.
Each year I am amazed and blindsided by how hard the first days are.
Blisters equals wrong shoes or maybe not broken in shoes. Go lots wide/ bigger.
I was 9 1/2 my whole life and have migrated to 10 1/2 and they still seem kind of narrow in the ball of my foot. my heel is snug
Many Walks
09-08-2010, 10:43
Your outing isn't a waste, but is actually a good experience because it opened your eyes to what it's really like out there. It all sounds like a great idea when your sitting in a comfortable living room, but reality sets in when you hit the trail. Several people start a thru with high hopes, but quit because it's not what they expected. I read about one person who planned for years and said “everything was going great until I hit the approach trail”. She quit and never even made it to Springer Mt. A short shakedown hike was good for you prior to starting a thru.
Your boots are a good brand, but you just need to be sure you have enough room on the toe box and your lacing method keeps your foot anchored so your toes don't slide to the front on downhills. Without enough room and proper lacing no brand or style will work. Quality socks like Darn Tuff and good insoles like Spenco Backpackers will also keep your feet stable and from rolling and sliding.
Regardless of what ratios for weight are quoted, try to think in terms of ounces while realizing you're only out for a few days at a time between towns. Get your overall “skin out” weight as low as possible while still being safe. A lot of outfitter sales people have never thru hiked and will think in terms of expedition gear and will recommend bigger (heavier) stuff, plus that gets them a higher commission. Only a few are as focused on your success and lighter weight like the folks at Mountain Crossing, so unless you go to someone like MC you'll have to be sure your decisions are good for you. Get your weight down to the lightest basics, get footwear that really fits with plenty of room with proper lacing, take your time breaking everything in, hike at your pace, go fewer miles to start and don't feel bad about it, and stop to take care of yourself at the first sign of hot spots or pain and you'll learn to enjoy hiking for a long time. It's worth the effort and we hope you stick with it. Wish you the best!
Jack stopped a lot, especially at difficult sections of descent to help advise how to approach them, and just to allow her to catch up sometimes. So no, I really didn't set the pace. I also gave her options for bailing early, but she was a trooper and carried on.
Of course carrying less weight would help, so there are items that could be changed to lighter ones...like no metal water bottle, for example. Possibly what others have said about the boots being too tight was correct. My advice was Superfeet inserts and trekking poles, but I did get her to use a hiking staff fashioned from deadfall found on the trail...And what you say about his company
Is what you say about society
Catch the witness, catch the wit
Catch the spirit, catch the spit
The world is, the world is
Love and life are deep
Maybe as his eyes are wide
Exit the warrior
Today's Tom Tawyer
He gets high on you
And the energy you trade
He gets right on to the friction of the day
Slo-go'en
09-08-2010, 11:24
Prettywoman,
Doing 22 miles in 2 days through that section with a 40 pound pack is damn good for a first time hike. You did good, even though it hurt! It would have been a lot more enjoyable if you had a lighter pack and did it as a 3 day/2 night trip.
The Bear mt/Sage ravine/Race mt section is the most difficult section for CT/MA, but it is also the most interesting. However, it is only moderately difficult compared to many other sections of the AT and is only a taste of what will come later as you go farther north.
If you can reduce your pack weight down to a more reasonable 18-20 pounds (without food and water) and get better fitting boots, you shouldn't have much trouble. There isn't much time left to do more shake down hikes this year if you plan on thru-hiking next year, but it would be good to try.
BTW, that is some transformation you did, very impressive. But six kids? What were you thinking!
Farr Away
09-08-2010, 11:37
That sounds like a lot of mileage for your first overnight.
My first overnight was 3.5 miles out, then back the next day. No problems.
My second was 9 miles mostly downhill the first day, and 2 miles the next. Hurt my knee and lost 2 toenails.
Changed shoes & added hiking poles.
Third hike was 8 miles the first day, and 6 miles the second with the knee still not good. (Doctor said medically he should probably tell me not to go, but he wouldn't. "Be careful; have fun.") First day included hiking up the AT from Fontana. Ended the hike feeling better than I started.
Working up the miles helps.
I also agree with the poster who said that hiking hurts. Certainly not all the time, and I'm certainly not saying that you'll be in agony, but you're going to be uncomfortable; you're going to ache occasionally; you're going to be hot, cold, sweaty, tired, wet. Doesn't mean you're not going to also have the time of your life.
-FA
Pedaling Fool
09-08-2010, 12:00
It is 3am and I cant sleep. My whole body just hurts. I am bruised, blistered and scraped. I have lost 2 toenails so far and I can barely walk. I am NOT exaggerating. I have never felt a world of hurt quite like this.
I experienced my first two days on the trail with a pack Monday and Tuesday. Walking with an experienced hiker, CamoJack, we covered 11 miles each day - starting at (I think) Connecticut 41, Under Mountain Road and finishing at U.S. 7 in Sheffield, Massachusetts.
My pack, a LL Bean White Mountain weighed in at 35-40 pounds with 5 liters of water (yes, I needed that much, I drank it all both days) and food for two days. I know I need to find a way to lighten the load because there was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet. And I wore Merrill Moab booths with Smart Wool socks.
I can tell ya, I didnt expect the trail to be what it was, all up, down, up, down, up, up, up, up, up, up, down, down, down. I didnt expect to have to climb straight up and then go straight down. Some of it was actually SCARY and I think I just learned that I am afraid of heights.
I am physically fit - an avid runner and cyclist. And I have lifted weights for more than two years. But this was an endurance work out unlike any I have ever experienced. So tell me...was this just too many miles for a newbie to start out with? Or is this just not going to happen for me? :)
The simple fact is, they body is lazy and does not like change. When you workout it adapts to that exact exercise and the longer you do it the better it becomes and more efficient it gets at that particular activity (and there's not much overlap between exercises). That's not to say it's a waste of time to workout for a particular activity, it's good to strengthen your body, but don't expect it to make every other type of activity easy.
Just one of my personal examples (but I have many more):
Whe I started doing squats I would experience severe pain in my legs, especially the top part above the knees. The more I did this exercise the more I had to do to feel that same pain and the quicker I recovered. However, when I started running I felt the same pain in my upper legs. Now I can run farther and faster before I feel the same pain. Then I started running in soft sand on the beach and it was as though I've never ran before in my life.
Many more examples of this...
And I know from experience about the hiking pain. When I first started in 2006 I thought the southern Apps were the hilliest thing I've ever seen. But since returning in subsequent years it's not such a big deal.
I also went through sleepless nights, but for me it was more from pain in my feet...It was really bad for a while and I even considered getting off the trail, but I finally got over it.
brotheral
09-08-2010, 12:09
the contributors here routinely throw around 10 miles a day as a reasonable starting figure for mileage.
I sure didn't find it to be so. 5 to 8 miles per day and I was whipped. I too was fit and ran and biked a lot. It doesn't really help hiking muscles. at least not so as I noticed while hiking.
Each year I am amazed and blindsided by how hard the first days are.
Blisters equals wrong shoes or maybe not broken in shoes. Go lots wide/ bigger.
I was 9 1/2 my whole life and have migrated to 10 1/2 and they still seem kind of narrow in the ball of my foot. my heel is snug
FOR ME !! The excitement is simply to be out enjoying the "Great Outdoors". I never plan more than 5 or 6 miles... I love making camp, gathering firewood, and relaxing in all the beautiful places accessible only by walking. :sun
couscous
09-08-2010, 12:13
Sounds like you were unaware of the water sources along this section? If you had known before the hike that you would be passing more than a dozen water sources, perhaps you would have felt comfortable carrying 2 liters. Knowledge is the lightest thing you can take along.
Mountain Wildman
09-08-2010, 12:14
FOR ME !! The excitement is simply to be out enjoying the "Great Outdoors". I never plan more than 5 or 6 miles... I love making camp, gathering firewood, and relaxing in all the beautiful places accessible only by walking. :sun
I could not have said it better!!!!
fredmugs
09-08-2010, 12:54
I didn't read all of these posts but here's a few things to consider.
1. Your boots may in fact be fine - you just laced them up too tight. I used to blister like crazy and then switched to wider width footwear laced as loosely as possible and only tied tightly at the top.
2. I lose toenails from banging my feet into rocks - not because of the fitting of whatever I'm wearing.
3. I used to be concerned about knee and ankle support as well but I haven't seen any big difference between large boots and regular tennis shoes. I recently hiked up and over Mt Washington wearing Nike Air Monarch IIIs. I just go slower on the downhills.
4. Do a lot more research and make postings here about water availability. It sounded like you carried all of your water for the entire trip. If you don't have one get a good water filter or some other treatment option.
5. I never wear sock liners or merino wool socks. NEVER. I used to get humungous blood blisters and now I don't get any - draw your own conclusions.
The mileages you did were fine - it's one of those getting used to things. When I started section hiking the AT a 15 mile day was a killer. Now it's cake.
Don't give up. Don't listen to conventional wisdom. Definitely do not listen to advice that people give you that they got from somewhere else.
Gray Blazer
09-08-2010, 13:09
Knowledge is the lightest thing you can take along.
Did you make that up? That's good.
couscous
09-08-2010, 13:23
Yes, I've been telling boy scouts that for many years.
I also think that 11 miles per day was too much. That is one of the disadvantages of hiking with someone - you're less likely to want to split up even if it is necessary. Lesson learned though. Now you know some of your own limitations. Once you've been on the trail for a few weeks though, an 11 mile day will be too short (unless you're hitting town:D)......
I agree. Those who backpack regularly have no trouble with 11 miles a day or much more. But even fit folks just starting out, or returning after months of no walking, often have difficulty with more than 6 or 7 miles days.
I know there are exceptions. But I've hiked with many people who have begun to fade after a relatively few miles. Build up to miles. Eventually, most people can do 15-20 mile days with ease.
I could get used to a 50 pound pack, and 15-mile days. I've never been able to start off after a period of inactivity with anything like 11 mile days.
All such bets are off now that I'm 81 with multiple age afflictions. I simply keep as active as can. Do what I can.
Anyway, prettywoman would still have her toenails, I suspect, had she carried a few less pounds, and walked a few fewer miles.
Weary
Stir Fry
09-08-2010, 13:35
Looks like I am buying more new gear - all light weight, because I cannot figure any other way to reduce it other than replacing what I already bought with lighter options. There was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet. So back to the outfitters :)
Put a list of gear and there weights on white blaze and you will get many options.
Heaving lived in Freeport for a year I can tell you LL Beam is a great store but its gear in in no way light. its middle of the road. My first set of gear came from LL Beam and my base pack was 45 lbs. Took almost ten years to replace everthing but now my base is 21 lbs. My son gets the heavy set on the weekends he comes out with me.
Find an outfitter on the trail and eather go there or go online. There target is hikers, that want to go light, and plan to go the distance not weekenders.
brotheral
09-08-2010, 13:41
This is a good thread. Reminds me of the T-Shirt I bought at Mountain Crossings that says, "The Appalachian Trail; A Footpath for Those Who Seek Fellowship With the Wilderness."
We all go about it in different ways.
Take advantage of the wisdom shared here, but Hike your own Hike. :welcome
ChinMusic
09-08-2010, 13:43
This thread is an example of why it is a good idea to start out with MUCH less mileage than you THINK you can do when starting a thru. After a section hike one can go home and lick their wounds. On a thru you have to take some zeros or just suffer.
PW - This is pretty normal stuff for folks just starting out. Don't get too discouraged. Being physically fit alone does not make the body ready for the rigors of the trail. As others have said it takes time to dial in what works for you.
BobTheBuilder
09-08-2010, 14:14
My first section was the approach trail up and down. My knees were so sore by the time I got to the top I could barely walk. 600 miles of sections later, I have learned a couple of things. First, trekking poles make all the difference in the world for me. Second, I always lose a couple of toenails on a hike. Third, after some sections I feel great, after some I feel beat up.
I think your water weight was huge. My normal pack weight, with food and water, is about 28 lbs. The few times I have packed about 20% more, because of water scarcity, cold weather, etc., it has made a lot more than 20% difference in difficulty. Cut your pack weight and your miles for a few hikes and see if it doesn't change your outlook. (And get bigger shoes)
IronGutsTommy
09-08-2010, 14:15
thats the minimal gear list i was trying to find for you, ann. thanks spokes
Give me some boot suggestions!
Looks like everyone overlooked your question......
Try on a pair of Keen Targhee II's mid boots. Fit volume with SuperFeet blue or green inserts if needed.
Very comfortable. Never got a blister wearing them. My preferred boot but the mileage wear tends to be less than other boots. Yours may differ.
Asics GT 2150 trail runners are worth a look too. Again adjust fit volume with inserts.
It is 3am and I cant sleep. My whole body just hurts. I am bruised, blistered and scraped. I have lost 2 toenails so far and I can barely walk. I am NOT exaggerating. I have never felt a world of hurt quite like this.
Answer: At least you know you are ALIVE!
... Walking with an experienced hiker, CamoJack, we covered 11 miles each day...
... I know I need to find a way to lighten the load because there was no sleeping pad or water filter in there yet...
Answer: when CamoJack isn't looking slip some of your gear unoticeably into his pack... CJ likes feeling the testosterone rush! He'll appreciate your kindness!
I can tell ya, I didnt expect the trail to be what it was, all up, down, up, down, up, up, up, up, up, up, down, down, down. I didnt expect to have to climb straight up and then go straight down. Some of it was actually SCARY and I think I just learned that I am afraid of heights.
Answer: ah come on, it wasn't really STRAIGHT UP OR STRAIGHT DOWN. How do you now feel having faced and conquered your previous fear of heights YOU? HAD? FEELS GOOD? HUH?
I am physically fit - an avid runner and cyclist. And I have lifted weights for more than two years. But this was an endurance work out unlike any I have ever experienced. So tell me...was this just too many miles for a newbie to start out with? Or is this just not going to happen for me?
Answer: Take it slower if need be(Only you know when to say when!) but you'll eventually get used to the fitness challenge!
Get a postal scale and weigh everything you think you need and put the info in a spread sheet (several can be found online at backpackinglight.com). Then start cutting weight! Throw out the things you don't need, replace the things you need with lighter versions. You should be able to get down to about 20 lbs with food for 3 days and 2 liters of water.
Post a gear list and you'll get lots of suggestions. Search "gear list" and you'll see other's gear lists. That will get you off to a good start. Also asking for help with certain areas such as cooking, hydration, sleep systems, might help keep the discussions focused.
Mr. Right
09-08-2010, 16:13
I wouldn't worry so much about your pack weight. People usually find a happy place with their packs and it's often way away from what that "golden ratio" says it should be.
I think you should look into your footwear and your mileage. Merrells are not the best shoes for most people. they're great for walking around town or for folks with narrow feet. For almost all others, go with another brand of boot. Keens tend to fit most people well,as do Asolo. (Trailrunners are a good idea ... there, I said it.)
Also, for someone starting out, 11 miles with a pack is quite a lot. Most people start out at no more than 5 miles. For my thru-hike, even as an experienced backpacker, I kept myself to less than ten for the first three days. What might look like very low miles are good for getting cranked up.
5 liters of water is a lot of water to say the least.
I rarely carried that much on my hikes in the arid regions on the CDT and PCT.
In the water-blessed East, two liters (or better yet, a liter) is adequate if you fill up along the way.
Experience is the best teacher, though. Get out and hike. Hike some more. And continue to hike. :)
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 19:09
CamoJack did wait for me, advised me on some descents and he showed me how to read and follow the blazes. It was a fun trip. I enjoyed his company and had a good time. But my body REALLY aches. I am walking around...but stairs are hard :)
I took the LL Bean pack, Merrell boots and a heave Gerber multi tool back to LL Bean and exchanged them. I now have an Oprey pack, Vasque (?) boots, and a Leatherman Squirt.
I will put together and post a gear list within a day or two.
Thank you everyone!
Ann
camojack
09-08-2010, 19:11
Sounds like you were unaware of the water sources along this section? If you had known before the hike that you would be passing more than a dozen water sources, perhaps you would have felt comfortable carrying 2 liters. Knowledge is the lightest thing you can take along.
Actually, many of those "sources" you cite were nothing of the sort, being quite dry...although I agree, 5 liters wasn't necessary.
(I "only" carried 4, myself... ;))
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 19:11
Hey Mags, can I be Hiker Trash, too? :)
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 19:12
I totally drank all of the water though. All of it :)
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 19:13
Asics? :eek:
I am a Brooks girl, all the way.
Looks like everyone overlooked your question......
Try on a pair of Keen Targhee II's mid boots. Fit volume with SuperFeet blue or green inserts if needed.
Very comfortable. Never got a blister wearing them. My preferred boot but the mileage wear tends to be less than other boots. Yours may differ.
Asics GT 2150 trail runners are worth a look too. Again adjust fit volume with inserts.
Hey Mags, can I be Hiker Trash, too? :)
Only if you got the pink ladies Thermarest with umpteen different colored patches covering all the pinholes in it and have sewn smile face and OUCH! patches all over your pack!
BTW, as I recall another thread you started Prettywoman0172, what type of sleep pad did you eventually decide upon?
camojack
09-08-2010, 19:17
CamoJack did wait for me, advised me on some descents and he showed me how to read and follow the blazes. It was a fun trip. I enjoyed his company and had a good time. But my body REALLY aches. I am walking around...but stairs are hard :)
I took the LL Bean pack, Merrell boots and a heave Gerber multi tool back to LL Bean and exchanged them. I now have an Oprey pack, Vasque (?) boots, and a Leatherman Squirt.
I will put together and post a gear list within a day or two.
Thank you everyone!
Ann
I like Vasque boots; I'm on my second pair. Don't forget the Superfeet, or their equivalent...and trekking poles.
Someone else posted something I told you at the end of the first day: pain lets us know we're alive. You done good... :)
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 19:17
Jack stopped a lot, especially at difficult sections of descent to help advise how to approach them, and just to allow her to catch up sometimes. So no, I really didn't set the pace. I also gave her options for bailing early, but she was a trooper and carried on.
.
I would never quit. I will not bow. Ever. :)
Prettywoman0172
09-08-2010, 19:21
I like Vasque boots; I'm on my second pair. Don't forget the Superfeet, or their equivalent...and trekking poles.
Someone else posted something I told you at the end of the first day: pain lets us know we're alive. You done good... :)
Oh, I am super alive then. My god...quads and calves are still on fire and I think the stress fracture on my right tibia is open again.
I like "Pain is weakness leaving the body."
:)
I bought a thermarest ridge rest for now...there is a hiking "foot clinic" coming up in a week at a local store. I will take the boots back there and get the Superfeet then (they will be on sale at the event!) I know which poles I want and will buy those within the week.
I also want that book you had. Gonna check REI for it tomorrow.
And I am going to try to go out again this weekend contingent on the condition of the stress fracture.
Thanks again :)
Ann
I would never quit. I will not bow. Ever. :)
Now we're talking and thinking and acting! YES! I wanted energy and inspiration and finally found it after reading this post! Good For You!
I totally drank all of the water though. All of it :)
I am sure you did....
But, 5 liters in 11 miles????
And no where to fill up along the way?
I carried 5 liters, at the most, for 25-30 miles hiking the PCT in the arid sections FWIW.
As for hike trash..you can call yourself whatever you want..... :sun:
Old Grouse
09-08-2010, 19:25
I would never quit. I will not bow. Ever. :)
I'm so proud of you!!! We all are!
Next time out hiking try an inflatable pad and see if it's more comfortable. Demo one if you have to.
I appreciate your enthusiasm and Get To It I'm not a quitter attitude PrettyWoman but take care of the stress fracture by healing it up. That's not quite the same thing as feeling the slight burn in your leg muscles from giving them a good but healthy workout! Uncared for unhealed leg bone stress fractures can lead to more serious conditions especially for a hiker. You don't want to needlessly be sidelined for an extrardinary amt of time with a more advanced medical problem because you failed to address the original problem!
camojack
09-08-2010, 20:14
Oh, I am super alive then. My god...quads and calves are still on fire and I think the stress fracture on my right tibia is open again.
I like "Pain is weakness leaving the body."
:)
I bought a thermarest ridge rest for now...there is a hiking "foot clinic" coming up in a week at a local store. I will take the boots back there and get the Superfeet then (they will be on sale at the event!) I know which poles I want and will buy those within the week.
I also want that book you had. Gonna check REI for it tomorrow.
And I am going to try to go out again this weekend contingent on the condition of the stress fracture.
Thanks again :)
Ann
You're welcome, but I was going hiking anyway. ;)
It seems that you've learned a lot; now you just have to put those things into practice...and it apparently you're doing what needs to be done. Stick with it...
I bought a thermarest ridge rest for now...there is a hiking "foot clinic" coming up in a week at a local store. I will take the boots back there and get the Superfeet then (they will be on sale at the event!) I know which poles I want and will buy those within the week.
Don't let them sucker you into the green insoles. They might be perfect for you, but you should also try out the other colors. The color of the insoles you'll find in the store usually relate to how thick they are. I prefer thinner insoles that give my feet more room and reduce blisters, so I went with the blue insoles. You may not even need insoles at all. You may like other insoles, like maybe the Montrail Enduro-Sole.
Asics? :eek:
I am a Brooks girl, all the way.
Good. As long as you stay far away from that Vasque Velocity crap.........
you can work out all you want too. But nothing beats walking up and down hills..start smallish and work in the miles over time. Your going to be sore the first couple of times you walk,,at the same time,,work up to your pack weights..don't take full loads right out of the starting gate. over a couple of weeks to break yourself in,,,you will work your way into longer distances,,and more packable weight with little to no problems at all. Just take your time..search for the right light weight comfy to you gear. but research and shop the internet for the best deals on light weight gear. And do not give up..you can do this with alittle time.
Good mileage for your first outing. However, no matter how much advice you get on here and what you think right now of your "always' and "nevers", you will change something on each hike; which is half the fun. Don't rule out wearing trail runners, I started out in heavy shoes and now hike in my Brooks trail shoes in good weather but will use something else for winter. Just keep going out but try to lighten up each time and learn something from each hike. What is right for others is not right for you and vise versa; filter the adice and use what is useful. Main thing is you are our there having fun.
Anyhow, it sounds like it was a very successful first trip. You learn alot on those.
My first Fundy Footpath trek was very similar. I was overweight, and my pack was overweight, and I also drank huge volumes of water, like 1-2 litres per hour, while only averaging 1-2 miles per hour. All ups and downs. Very long days. I had a fever also. Learned alot. You have to make alot of mistakes early on, otherwise the learning just takes longer. Younger people take longer to learn because their bodies can put up with so much more abuse. Cheers.
my question is, who is this jak quoting Tom Sawyer lol.. rock on brother!!
Prettywoman0172
09-09-2010, 02:46
I just bought a Thermarest Ridge Rest for now. Figure I will buy the womens pro-lite later on.
Only if you got the pink ladies Thermarest with umpteen different colored patches covering all the pinholes in it and have sewn smile face and OUCH! patches all over your pack!
BTW, as I recall another thread you started Prettywoman0172, what type of sleep pad did you eventually decide upon?
bigcranky
09-09-2010, 10:36
PW, yours is a classic story from a first overnight backpacking trip. You did fine -- you completed the trip, and learned a lot of things in the process.
Time to plan the next hike -- and soon!
Prettywoman0172
09-09-2010, 14:15
PW, yours is a classic story from a first overnight backpacking trip. You did fine -- you completed the trip, and learned a lot of things in the process.
Time to plan the next hike -- and soon!
I am, my friend, I am. I have exchanged and replaced gear, I am working on a gear list to post, bought two more guide books, and will pick up my trekking poles and superfeet sometime next week. And early next Friday morning I am goin' hiking :)
Thought about trying tommake it out this weekend but the pain in my legs is just too much. I tried to run today afte 6 weeks off (for stress fractures) and it was so hard with the severe muscle fatigue from the first hike. And now I csnt tell if the fractures are hurting at all or if it is just the muscle pain. Ugh. Not smart.
Ann
Good. As long as you stay far away from that Vasque Velocity crap.........
Squeeek! Squissh! Psst! Snap! Pop! That's what I heard as the air was escaping from the heel sole bubble! Had to return them! Thought I was walking on creaky wooden floor boards!
chiefduffy
09-09-2010, 15:17
I have exchanged and replaced gear, I am working on a gear list to post, bought two more guide books, and will pick up my trekking poles and superfeet sometime next week. And early next Friday morning I am goin' hiking :)
Congrats on your hike, and welcome to the hiking addiction! For me, the tougher the last hike, the more I want to get back out there again. By the way, the only cure is....more hiking!
Take that Ridgerest and cut off a few feet. You don't need the whole thing to be comfortable and warm.
Now do that with every darn thing in your pack. Take and item out of the pack and examine it. Is there any way to reduce its size or weight? You don't need a whole tube of toothpaste. You can use foil instead of the lid your pot came with. You can put a small quantity of deet into an empty visine bottle. Can the item be replaced with something in the refrigerator that's currently holding food or liquid? Do you need a whole box of waterproof matches or just three? Keep going through every item.
Now go through the clothes in your pack. If it's a jacket or an extra pair of socks, go ahead and keep it unless you've got more than 2 or three of these. If it's a shirt or a pair of pants or shorts, get rid of it. And don't carry a pair of undies for each day either.
Now you are ready to exchange your sleeping bag, shelter and pack.
And please for god's sake get some bigger boots. Try them on with two pairs of thick socks at the store so that you're not tempted to let them sell you smaller shoes than you need. I have never met anyone who professionaly fits shoes who didn't size them at least 4 sizes too small for me an my toenails.
When CamoJack isn't looking slip some of your gear unoticeably into his pack...
Looks like the tables were turned. He expected to sleep in her tent, only she didn't know it. Read her full journal entry.
Skidsteer
09-10-2010, 20:01
I am, my friend, I am. I have exchanged and replaced gear, I am working on a gear list to post, bought two more guide books, and will pick up my trekking poles and superfeet sometime next week. And early next Friday morning I am goin' hiking :)
Thought about trying tommake it out this weekend but the pain in my legs is just too much. I tried to run today afte 6 weeks off (for stress fractures) and it was so hard with the severe muscle fatigue from the first hike. And now I csnt tell if the fractures are hurting at all or if it is just the muscle pain. Ugh. Not smart.
Ann
It will hurt less with each hike if you keep at it. No biggie.
Don't carry 5 liters of water for 11 miles if you have a choice. Just one water source in that 11 miles allows you to carry 2 1/2 liters and drink the same amount. 2 sources= 1 2/3 liters, etc. etc.
camojack
09-10-2010, 22:08
Looks like the tables were turned. He expected to sleep in her tent, only she didn't know it. Read her full journal entry.
I don't know about the journal entry you're referring to, but she wanted to carry everything she'd need, so there wasn't any reason for both of us to carry two person tents...so I did sleep in hers.
Nitwit... :bse
4eyedbuzzard
09-10-2010, 22:28
Looks like the tables were turned. He expected to sleep in her tent, only she didn't know it. Read her full journal entry.
A most enlightening blog site. Some of it expected - some of it definitely not.
4eyedbuzzard
09-10-2010, 22:43
I don't know about the journal entry you're referring to, but she wanted to carry everything she'd need, so there wasn't any reason for both of us to carry two person tents...so I did sleep in hers.
Nitwit... :bse
Probably this entry excerpt @ http://imaphoenixbaby.blogspot.com/2010/09/its-just-walking.html
"Jack had decided not to carry his own tent since mine was a two person, and instead invited himself to stay in mine. I was not pleased with this idea and was very, very nervous about sharing such a small space with a stranger . . . There was actually plenty of room in the tent but Jack “warned” me that if he got cold during the night he might “Hit you up for some body heat,” and he told me not to be alarmed if I woke up and he had himself wrapped around me. Umm, I am weird and don’t really like sleeping with anyone (a certain 23 yr old excepted, and that only happened once), so this made me nervous."
camojack
09-10-2010, 22:52
Probably this entry excerpt @ http://imaphoenixbaby.blogspot.com/2010/09/its-just-walking.html
"Jack had decided not to carry his own tent since mine was a two person, and instead invited himself to stay in mine. I was not pleased with this idea and was very, very nervous about sharing such a small space with a stranger . . . There was actually plenty of room in the tent but Jack “warned” me that if he got cold during the night he might “Hit you up for some body heat,” and he told me not to be alarmed if I woke up and he had himself wrapped around me. Umm, I am weird and don’t really like sleeping with anyone (a certain 23 yr old excepted, and that only happened once), so this made me nervous."
Interesting. Yes, I said those things...but also stayed on my side of the tent.
As I previously stated, it didn't make sense for both of us to carry two person tents. :-?
Whatever. I guess that's the thanks I get... :rolleyes:
cue Rush "Tom Sawyer" live in Rio
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rush+tom+sawyer&docid=166987630107&mid=16ED07A54050B30BACE616ED07A54050B30BACE6&FORM=VIRE5#
Mr. Right
09-22-2010, 17:45
Good. As long as you stay far away from that Vasque Velocity crap.........
Everyone hates the Velocity. I bought a pair in Leray, VA on my thru-hike and I summitted Katahdin in them. Over 1,300 miles. And there was still life in them. I threw them out after the hike only because of the smell.
DC2.2GSR
09-23-2010, 15:52
Take that Ridgerest and cut off a few feet. You don't need the whole thing to be comfortable and warm.
Now do that with every darn thing in your pack. Take and item out of the pack and examine it. Is there any way to reduce its size or weight? You don't need a whole tube of toothpaste. You can use foil instead of the lid your pot came with. You can put a small quantity of deet into an empty visine bottle. Can the item be replaced with something in the refrigerator that's currently holding food or liquid? Do you need a whole box of waterproof matches or just three? Keep going through every item.
Now go through the clothes in your pack. If it's a jacket or an extra pair of socks, go ahead and keep it unless you've got more than 2 or three of these. If it's a shirt or a pair of pants or shorts, get rid of it. And don't carry a pair of undies for each day either.
Now you are ready to exchange your sleeping bag, shelter and pack.
And please for god's sake get some bigger boots. Try them on with two pairs of thick socks at the store so that you're not tempted to let them sell you smaller shoes than you need. I have never met anyone who professionaly fits shoes who didn't size them at least 4 sizes too small for me an my toenails.
very good post. it's amazing how many people bring along the entire package of 'widgets', straight from the store shelf. i met a guy once who carried an entire sealed box of clif bars next to his full box of kitchen matches and his 3-pack of BIC lighters. nothing like a trip to walmart, then emptying the shopping bag into your backpack! lol
onesocktwin
09-24-2010, 11:13
No one has mentioned trimming toe nails. Only time I ever lost a toe nail was when I forgot to trim them. Proper lacing to keep toes from jamming on the downhills is critical for me. I tried high top Merrills when I first started hiking because I thought I needed the ankle support. I had many near falls because I couldn't recover in the high tops. After about 30 miles I switched to Merrill leather low cuts. I prefer Montrail inserts; got my first pair at Mountain Crossings. I wear a size 7 "street shoe" but my Merrills are size 8. Love my hiking poles!