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Macritchie
09-11-2010, 20:38
I asked this in anotheer thread, but I cannot find where I left it. So I apologize if you have answered. I hope to do a weeklong section hike in TN, VA or NC in May. As I prepare, I have been looking at my old equipment & reading various books by long distance hikers: AT & PCT. Some like Colin Fletcher carried heavy packs (total 50lbs) while Ray Jardine carried <20lbs on the PCT trail. Both of them favour tarps over tents (but both hike in the drier Western states). My tent is 5lb and my emopty Kelty pack is 5 lb, so I am thinking maybe I should get smarter. What sort of loaded weight (including food/water) do you guys start with on a 1 week hike, assuming mild May weather in the South (most of the time)? I may not change everything this year, but if I can trim 10-20% of the weight that has to help.

JAK
09-11-2010, 20:55
top of my head
2 pounds water
8 pounds food
6 pounds clothing
5 pounds sleep & shelter stuff
2 pounds other stuff
2 pounds pack
25 pounds total, and none of it expensive stuff

Macritchie
09-11-2010, 21:21
Thanks! That's a good guide.

10-K
09-11-2010, 21:36
A 7 day week in May? Probably right at 30 lbs, with half of it being food.

Tipi Walter will walk on my grave for saying this but it would take extenuating circumstances for me to carry 7 days worth of food on the AT. 4 max is more like it.

Macritchie
09-11-2010, 21:37
Jak:

Sorry for my dumb questions but I am interested in how you get your "sleep & shelter" down to 5lb? Also your pack is only 2 lbs. Is that because it is small & tight (weekend size in shops) or did you make your own, because the ones I see in catalogues for >weekend hikes are all 4lb & up.

Do you have a stove or go with cold food?

Do youy carry a water filter, or just rely on public water? I'll be in the Great Smoky park most of the time. I have a filter but is is heavy.

Do you use a tent or just a tarp? Or do you stay in shelters?

Macritchie
09-11-2010, 21:42
Thanks 10K. I am learning a lot here. How big is your backpack? It is interesting to hear what you all say after what one hears in stores. With such a light load, are you able to wear lighter shoes/boots as well? Doe you guys use walking sticks? I have one, but I find I only use it on steep slopes, so often leave it at home.

Bags4266
09-11-2010, 21:45
Marcritchie, I see you only have 7 posts. So I take that your new here. You need to research your 4 heavy items. Pack, bag, tent, sleeping pad, this is where you will save most of your weight. I see your pack and tent are at 10lbs , thats huge for a solo. You could shave 6.5lbs just on those two items . Read research and think on what really matters to you.

10-K
09-11-2010, 21:49
Thanks 10K. I am learning a lot here. How big is your backpack? It is interesting to hear what you all say after what one hears in stores. With such a light load, are you able to wear lighter shoes/boots as well? Doe you guys use walking sticks? I have one, but I find I only use it on steep slopes, so often leave it at home.

This is my pack: http://ula-equipment.com/catalyst.asp

I used to wear boots but now I wear trail runners because they are indeed lighter. When you're carrying a pack and picking your feet up and putting them back down for 8-10 hours at a stretch boots get heavy.

I use trekking poles only if I'm wearing a pack. IMO, Black Diamond ellipse w/ fliplock is the best in this department.

You'll figure it out, probably by buying everything 3-4 times like a lot of us.

I tell my friends I've got enough gear to take me and 3 people I don't like hiking. :)

Macritchie
09-11-2010, 21:51
Thanks Bags. So far my research has been with camping stores, which is why I am carrying too much. I hiked a lot in the past but not much in last 10 yrs apart from many day-hikes. Your insights are valuable to me.

cowpoke
09-11-2010, 21:53
.....I was in a similar position...I owned a Kelty Redcloud...right at 6lbs empty and a MountianSmith tent...about 5lbs.....I changed out my Kelty for the ULA Catalyst (just under 3lbs) and my MountianSmith for a henry shires tarptent (2 1/2lbs)....I have 2lb down bag and 19oz pad....for me..a drastic reductio in weight. I was using a HHED hammock but could not figure out how to stay warm...so went back to ground...for me I think it was the right move. cheers.

IronGutsTommy
09-11-2010, 21:59
walking sticks can be a big help with posture, footing etc and the user can normally employ a consistently larger gait, resulting in less steps taken. this comes more in handy for sections or longer hikes, but can help shorter hikes to. I liked jax' guidelines but 8 lbs of food may not last a full week. On the average, the best way to trim weight ( and the places weight fluctuates so much person to person) is their sleep and shelter systems. i recommend looking thru the lightweight gear section for ideas on lighter packs. Gear on average has gotten alot lighter over the years, so one can go with a lighter weight capacity pack. Theres a few lightweight stoves out there. the msr pocketrocket is around 3 oz. i believe. of course alcohol stoves are even lighter, and alcohol weighs less per volume than fuel. A good (expensive) down bag will weigh less than a synthetic. For water, instead of a filter just bring some aquamira tablets.

JAK
09-11-2010, 22:16
Jak:

Sorry for my dumb questions but I am interested in how you get your "sleep & shelter" down to 5lb? Also your pack is only 2 lbs. Is that because it is small & tight (weekend size in shops) or did you make your own, because the ones I see in catalogues for >weekend hikes are all 4lb & up.

Do you have a stove or go with cold food?

Do youy carry a water filter, or just rely on public water? I'll be in the Great Smoky park most of the time. I have a filter but is is heavy.

Do you use a tent or just a tarp? Or do you stay in shelters?

Food: for late spring I will go down to 1 pound per day, plus a pound. I am fit but overweight so I can afford to lose up to a pound a day in body fat while hiking in Spring. If you are fit and lean you will need more food, even in summer. In winter I bring 1.5 to 2.0 pounds per day, not that I burn more per day, just that I need to keep the furnace burning a little hotter at night.

Sleep and shelter: I have a 3 pound synthetic bag, a 2 pound gortex bivy, a 10oz 72"x28" sleeping pad, and a 10oz poncho tarp w/ cordage and nails which is also my rain gear. So that is 6 pounds, but in late spring I can trim it down somehow, probably by leaving the bivy home, or maybe going with a shorter and narrower pad. I like to sleep under big spruce trees so the bivy and tarp combo works well, and no bivy in summer. I'm not really prepared for bad bugs but haven't run into bad bugs yet. Matter of time.

Pack: I had a 6 pound pack and finally gave it away to a friend to try to get him hiking. I got a Go-Lite Jam2. I like it. It just happened to be the first ultralight pack I had a chance to try on in a store when I was in the States. I like it but also like the ULA stuff. In summer on shorter hikes I get by with an even smaller and lighter pack. The Jam2 is even good for winter skiing and short 3-4 day trips, but not for 7 day long winter trips unless I bring a toboggan, which I haven't done yet. 7 days in winter means prepare for 10, and thus greater risk of -25F nights, and so much more food and clothes and sleep gear. Still no tent. 3-4 days I can go by weather forecasts, but still include a bailout plan.

I usually bring a Kelly Kettle and mug and spoon and maybe a pot, and sometimes I play around with a hobo stove and leave the Kelly Kettle home. Food is mostly oats, with skim milk powder, sunflower seeds, currants, honey, tea, and maybe lentils and veggie soup mixes for soup at night. Sometimes jerky to chew on something. 7 days some jerky for sure.

I hike in Southern New Brunswick Canada, on the Bay of Fundy. Many large fast streams along the Fundy Footpath without much human traffic or agriculture nearby so its relatively safe to drink, so I usually rely on just boiling most of the water and drinking it cold occassionally. I used to bring aqua-mira but now I don't. If in doubt I boil and have tea. I would suggest you try aqua-mira. You can premix it into a small pastic bottle like a wedding bottle 5-10 minutes before you hit your water source and then dump it into your water and keep hiking and then stop and have your drink 10 or 15 minutes later when you get to the top of the next hill or whatever.

JAK
09-11-2010, 22:28
I would stick with your 5 pound pack for now and focus on all the other stuff. Just pretend the pack is 2 pounds, and then later when you sort out all the other stuff in a years time you will have a better idea what 1-2 pound pack you want.

Keep the tent for car camping. Go with a poncho/tarp and bivy, or a tarp. You can get a poncho/tarp cheap and make a bivy or get a gortex army surplus bivy. Blue foam pad, extra wide and long, works well with a bivy or tarp. No ground sheet. Takes up alot of volume but its cheap and warm and light and makes setup really easy. You can always cut it down later.

Clothing can be really cheap. Nice thing about clothes is you will eventually wear them. Still, don't buy too much and don't buy anything expensive. If you do get anything expensive, maybe a really good sleeping bag, on sale.

I would love to learn to DIY a pair of hiking shoes or mocs. Save moocho $$$.

Cheers.

SMSP
09-12-2010, 00:18
This is my pack: http://ula-equipment.com/catalyst.asp

I used to wear boots but now I wear trail runners because they are indeed lighter. When you're carrying a pack and picking your feet up and putting them back down for 8-10 hours at a stretch boots get heavy.

I use trekking poles only if I'm wearing a pack. IMO, Black Diamond ellipse w/ fliplock is the best in this department.

You'll figure it out, probably by buying everything 3-4 times like a lot of us.

I tell my friends I've got enough gear to take me and 3 people I don't like hiking. :)

Glad to see I am not the only one with all the extra gear. At the rate I'm going, I'll be able to outfit a Boy Scout Troop soon!

SMSP

bigcranky
09-12-2010, 10:00
Looking at packs in a camping store or catalog, they have "overnight packs," "weekend packs," and "extended expedition packs." They get much larger and heavier as you go up the scale. All of this seems very reasonable to a newbie -- of course a longer trip requires a much larger and heavier pack.

Don't believe them. You need the same gear for an overnight trip that you do for a thru-hike. The only difference is food -- for a thru-hike you'll carry several days of food at a time, but that's not enough to require some 7000-cubic-inch 8 pound load monster pack.

For a beginning AT hiker, a pack in the range of 4000 cubic inches (60 liters) is fine. There are many good, internal frame packs in that capacity range that weigh 3 pounds or less. To an experienced long distance hiker, 60 liters is HUGE, while to a beginner (or a sales clerk at the outdoor mart) 60 liters is too small. The key is this -- a 60 liter pack will force you to take less stuff, while still being large enough to carry what you need plus some extras.

wannahike
09-12-2010, 10:32
[QUOTE=JAK;1048710].
I would love to learn to DIY a pair of hiking shoes or mocs. Save moocho $$$.

Try this site, can always use another project for winter

http://www.simpleshoemaking.com/index.htm

Bags4266
09-12-2010, 10:53
Maybe its me but, footwear isn't were I would choose to save money. You could be like the barefoot sister's and not wear any at all and really save.

JAK
09-12-2010, 11:02
Great stuff there. I like the idea of combining knitting or crochet type work with leather work. Much food for thought. Not sure of best way to make the soles with some grip or tread as well as some strength and cushion for rocks and roots. I can see adding something between two layers of leather, or perhaps leather and knitwork, for cushion. Also I can see how leather alone provides fair grip or tread maybe, especially on snow and rock, but I haven't experienced it. I'm not afraid to use some modern materials either, but I would like to try traditional animal hide and see just how it works. Different ways to cure and treat it also I suppose. I suppose it would have naturally picked up spruce gum and pine tar just through use.

More food for though here...
http://www.arrowmoc.com/

JAK
09-12-2010, 11:04
Maybe its me but, footwear isn't were I would choose to save money. You could be like the barefoot sister's and not wear any at all and really save.I think I went a whole summer without shoes once when I was 10. Not so easy on gravel when you are 200 pounds, 220 with a pack. :)

JAK
09-12-2010, 11:15
Looking at packs in a camping store or catalog, they have "overnight packs," "weekend packs," and "extended expedition packs." They get much larger and heavier as you go up the scale. All of this seems very reasonable to a newbie -- of course a longer trip requires a much larger and heavier pack.

Don't believe them. You need the same gear for an overnight trip that you do for a thru-hike. The only difference is food -- for a thru-hike you'll carry several days of food at a time, but that's not enough to require some 7000-cubic-inch 8 pound load monster pack.

For a beginning AT hiker, a pack in the range of 4000 cubic inches (60 liters) is fine. There are many good, internal frame packs in that capacity range that weigh 3 pounds or less. To an experienced long distance hiker, 60 liters is HUGE, while to a beginner (or a sales clerk at the outdoor mart) 60 liters is too small. The key is this -- a 60 liter pack will force you to take less stuff, while still being large enough to carry what you need plus some extras.Well said Cranky.

The problem the manufacturers have is that people, in general, will simply not pay as much for something that is made with less material or a lighter weight of material. You can still get cheap light nylon wind jackets, and to myself they are worth far more than a heavy "Far West" type jacket, but I still won't pay much more than $20 for one. So I can't blame the manufacturers or outfitters. But I don't give them much business either. I've just grown to accept that I live in a different world.

Really not all that different in the natural world though. The primitive nomad would not expect to walk into a forest and find every tree or rock or animal suited for what he needs. You have to pick and choose. Same with the modern-day post-industrial hunter-gatherer-scavenger-nomad. :)

Chop
09-12-2010, 11:34
Looking at packs in a camping store or catalog, they have "overnight packs," "weekend packs," and "extended expedition packs." They get much larger and heavier as you go up the scale. All of this seems very reasonable to a newbie -- of course a longer trip requires a much larger and heavier pack.

Don't believe them. You need the same gear for an overnight trip that you do for a thru-hike. The only difference is food -- for a thru-hike you'll carry several days of food at a time, but that's not enough to require some 7000-cubic-inch 8 pound load monster pack.


I am inclined to agree with Ken....same gear for an overnight as a thruhike..at least that is the train of thought my wife and I had as we have updated a lot of our gear this summer. Lots of time in EMS and other stores till we just honed in on the online research and talking to some long distance folks.

We changed the following:

Was Nalgene bottles/bladders -> Now Gatorade bottles
Was Water Pump - > Now Aquafina chem
Was Cookpot -> Now MSR Titan Mug (we just boil and rehydrate so its plenty big)
Was More clothes carried -> Now far less clothes carried..but smarter clothes
Was Kelty 7 lb tent -> Now Six Moon Design Lunar Duo...just over two pounds
Was Slumberjack heavy and bulky - > Now Montbello Spiral 35s...just over a pound

But the biggest single change was in the pack. She had a Northface pack that was big and heavy...I had some no name sams club thing I had bought in 94.. We both ended up getting the ULA Circuit, and are very pleased with it. It is more than large enough.

There is others items probably, but the tent, pack, sleepbag made the biggest difference. It may come down more as we upgrade some clothing to lighter weight gear as well.

Base weight for the lady is 12-14lbs
Base weight for me is right around 14-15lbs

Actually, we started looking on white blaze and other sites for gear thoughts on gear thinking thru hikers would have the gear dialed in - which most do. The research was for just doing more backpacking here in New England (we live in the White Mtns)...but after a lot of reading, we are now planning to do the AT next summer..

njordan2
09-12-2010, 11:55
I have met a lot of 15 pound base weight folks that carry 50lbs loaded!

Anyway, to answer your question; for a week on the A.T. the loaded pack weight of 50 pounds is about right. If you really lighten up, maybe 40 pounds.

I hike for a week on the A.T. every year with no resupply and my pack is always right at 50 pounds. That includes everything I need for the week and 3 litres of water.

Without variance, I alway wind up helping out the poor soul who thought he was going to do it with only 30pounds or less!

Feral Bill
09-12-2010, 12:43
For a week long trip out west, with a potential for freezing temperatures at night and for rain, I run about 35 pounds all up. That is without any great efforts to save weight. I take a big tarp with bug net, 3+ pound sleeping bag, short thermarest and a 3+ pound pack. Add to that a SVEA stove with plenty of fuel and a couple of aluminum pots, too much food, a heavyish water filter, and a pound or so of camera gear. I do not carry much extra clothing or camp shoes.

Works for me.

FB

JAK
09-12-2010, 12:53
I have met a lot of 15 pound base weight folks that carry 50lbs loaded!

Anyway, to answer your question; for a week on the A.T. the loaded pack weight of 50 pounds is about right. If you really lighten up, maybe 40 pounds.

I hike for a week on the A.T. every year with no resupply and my pack is always right at 50 pounds. That includes everything I need for the week and 3 litres of water.

Without variance, I alway wind up helping out the poor soul who thought he was going to do it with only 30pounds or less!
Without variance, I see someone on the Fundy Footpath every trip I take struggling under the weight of a heavy pack, even in summer. True, its only a 4 day hike, but they manage to turn it into a 6 day struggle, or they bail out half way at Little Salmon River. It is a very rugged trail with many ups and downs but I would guess that much of the AT is very similar. 3 litres? Yeah, with that much weight you probably need that much to get from one water source to the next.

Point. Counterpoint.

JAK
09-12-2010, 13:07
I would like to know everything they should have brought but didn't that would add up to an extra 20-30 pounds.

Anyhow, if I ever get down to my competive sailing/running weight of 165-175 again, I would like to try a 50 pound pack again and see what it would be like, and how far I might be able to hike with it. 14 days mid-winter maybe, with temps as low as -25F. 40 days in summer maybe, but if I was that lean I would need more food, perhaps as much as in winter, so probably only 20 days.

JAK
09-12-2010, 13:18
I would gladly carry 50 pounds in summer if both my wife and daughter cam with me. With just my daughter it was about 40 pounds, me carrying everything, before I got my new pack which would have made it 35 pounds. That was 3 days on the Fundy Footpath, 40km. We did 19km on the last day. She was a trooper. Cummulative elevation gain on the footpath gotta be about 300 feet for every mile. Another 4 days would have added 5 pounds maybe, so still only 40 pounds, with my daughter along. I use a tent when with her because of bears.

Jonnycat
09-12-2010, 15:19
Everything but food, fuel and water, for me, is 20 pounds.

sbhikes
09-12-2010, 19:05
To hike the Pacific Crest Trail I carried about 12lbs of gear before food and water. I did use a larger volume pack for the PCT because I was hungrier and needed to carry more food. But nowadays on weekends or week long trips, I carry the same gear but a smaller pack.

Good resources include Ray Jardine's book (Beyond Backpacking or the PCT Hikers Handbook -- you can apply the same stuff to the AT just maybe prepare for more humidity and rain) and the backpackinglight.com web site. You might check the ultralight gear forum here, too. Andrew Skurka also has a good web site http://www.andrewskurka.com.

cevans
09-12-2010, 20:04
Pack, sleeping bag, tent, tarp, and rest of the 10 essentials, 18 for GF and 24 for me,,then add H2O and food,,for 5 days, for me about 35 lbs, and her about 22-23 as I try and keep her weight about there. I use a Nemo Nano elite tent, GG Nimbus Ozone pack, Lost Ranger Big Agnes Bag, and BA insulated pad. probably carry to much first aid, but contented with what I pack.

4eyedbuzzard
09-12-2010, 20:39
I have met a lot of 15 pound base weight folks that carry 50lbs loaded!

Anyway, to answer your question; for a week on the A.T. the loaded pack weight of 50 pounds is about right. If you really lighten up, maybe 40 pounds.

I hike for a week on the A.T. every year with no resupply and my pack is always right at 50 pounds. That includes everything I need for the week and 3 litres of water.

Without variance, I alway wind up helping out the poor soul who thought he was going to do it with only 30pounds or less!

I never carried 50lbs even back in 1970 when gear was twice the weight is is these days! :eek: I think even back then the most I carried was a little over 45 lbs and it wasn't a lot of fun going uphill with it. My base weight these days - pack, bag, pad, shelter, stove, clothing, first aid, map/compass, meds, emergency, phone, camera is anywhere from 12 to 18 pounds without food / water depending upon the season and expected weather conditions. A week on 30 lbs including food / water would be no problem in warmer summer months - I might run as high as 35 lbs in early spring / late fall with a heavier bag, clothes, more fuel, etc.

bigcranky
09-12-2010, 21:30
I'm trying to figure out how a 15 pound base weight becomes a 50 pound total weight. Let's overload and see what happens:

Base = 15 pounds
Water = 4 pounds, if you carry 2 liters
Food = 14 pounds for a *really* heavy week of food.

Total is 33 pounds. Not sure where the other 17 comes from.

My total pack weight is generally between 25-30 pounds at the start, and I have other hikers borrowing from *me* when they need something.

sbhikes
09-12-2010, 23:55
My pack was not capable of holding 50lbs.

leaftye
09-13-2010, 06:23
My average is pretty high due to all the water weight I need to carry.

JAK
09-13-2010, 06:40
What food I don't carry I borrow from myself. ;)

Raul Perez
09-13-2010, 07:43
I have met a lot of 15 pound base weight folks that carry 50lbs loaded!

Anyway, to answer your question; for a week on the A.T. the loaded pack weight of 50 pounds is about right. If you really lighten up, maybe 40 pounds.

I hike for a week on the A.T. every year with no resupply and my pack is always right at 50 pounds. That includes everything I need for the week and 3 litres of water.

Without variance, I alway wind up helping out the poor soul who thought he was going to do it with only 30pounds or less!

I had a 16lbs base weight and a 30lbs pack total for 5 days on the AT. Didn't have a problem with it.

Next year I plan on a 7 day trip, 10lbs base weight, 24lbs total with one resupply.

Maddog
09-13-2010, 07:47
25-27lbs...maddog

ZeroLozen
09-13-2010, 12:30
Its amazing how much crap you will leave behind on your second major backpacking trip. I remember Philmont, NM with Boy Scouts in '96. 14 years old carying a 70 pound pack. Miserable!!!!!!!!!!!

ZeroLozen
09-13-2010, 12:31
Whats the most weight anyone as carried???

bigcranky
09-13-2010, 14:04
Whats the most weight anyone as carried???

First time I took my 4-year old on an overnight trip: 65 pounds. Crazy stuff.

Jonnycat
09-13-2010, 14:08
Its amazing how much crap you will leave behind on your second major backpacking trip. I remember Philmont, NM with Boy Scouts in '96. 14 years old carying a 70 pound pack. Miserable!!!!!!!!!!!

I used to pack a Coleman double-mantle lantern, with the green propane tank, among other useless items.

Ah, the folly of youth. :D

Jonnycat
09-13-2010, 14:11
Food = 14 pounds for a *really* heavy week of food.

Total is 33 pounds. Not sure where the other 17 comes from.

Food for me is 2.5 pounds per day, so a week of normal eating would be 17.5 pounds.

Now you only have 13.5 pounds to account for.

10-K
09-13-2010, 14:12
Me heading out on an overnighter.

http://www.pamela-bradford.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sherpa1.jpg

Gray Blazer
09-13-2010, 14:30
I'm trying to figure out how a 15 pound base weight becomes a 50 pound total weight. Let's overload and see what happens:

Base = 15 pounds
Water = 4 pounds, if you carry 2 liters
Food = 14 pounds for a *really* heavy week of food.

Total is 33 pounds. Not sure where the other 17 comes from.

My total pack weight is generally between 25-30 pounds at the start, and I have other hikers borrowing from *me* when they need something.

You forgot the axe and cast iron dutch oven.

ZeroLozen
09-13-2010, 15:10
Me heading out on an overnighter.

http://www.pamela-bradford.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sherpa1.jpg

HAHAHA...nice.

Raul Perez
09-13-2010, 17:57
Whats the most weight anyone as carried???

62lbs for a 5 day trip because I believed all that survivalist bomb proof equip was the way to go. My pack included 4 MRE's and one mountain house cuisine.

B.B.
09-13-2010, 23:21
A friend of mine and I hiked the GA section in a week this past July. My total weight was 28 and my friends pack was 29. This was at the start of the week with our food and 32 oz of water each.

We always divide up some of our stuff..We have a 3lb, two person tent which she carries. I carry our stove, pot, water filter and our supper meals (homemade freezer bag meals). We each carry our own breakfasts, lunches and snacks. This works well for us. If you are hiking with someone, you can share the load. I agree with what was said earlier, other than food, the pack will be basically the same whether you hike a weekend or a week.

We don't do without, and are pretty comfortable. We didn't have any problem with that amount of weight, even with the 90++degree temps we had then. I am sure it would be nice to have less weight, but I think you have to decide what is important to you and how comfortable you want to be. Hike your own hike.

hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 23:46
i didn't read through all the comments, so I apologize if this is a repeat. but i had the same problem when i first started backpacking....the local stores want to load you down with everything. i believe my first trip out, i was carrying 45# for an overnighter! hahahaa i have beaten youtube up, and also www.rei.com has great gear reviews/comparisons. good luck!