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View Full Version : Foothills Trail, December, and Newbie Confusion



C-Stepper
11-29-2004, 09:29
Thanks for the help in advance.

I'm seriously considering hiking the Foothills Trail (see www.foothillstrail.org (http://www.foothillstrail.org/)) in the week between Christmas and New Year's Day. This would be my first "long" hike (~75 miles) and only my second overnight trip. I've read a couple of excellent journals over at trailjournals and searched some posts here and I'm really excited about the trip...darn, it's a month away! Good, now I have plenty of time to fret about the planning part of the trip! :)

I have lots of confusion that I didn't realize that I have until I began trying to plan my trip on a spreadsheet detailing my gear.

I'm having trouble figuring out what gear to take clothing wise. As of yet, I don't really have any cold weather gear specifically to backpacking, so I'll have to buy it or use what is already lying around my house. I want to get some experience out there before sinking the big bucks into gear. And, also, I see lots of gear but they don't seem appropriate for "down South"...I'm not going to be in the high elevations, day temps will be 40's to 50's, nights mid-20's to 30's. I want to plan for the X factor here, of course, for safety reasons but I don't want to go overboard buying down vests and gortex rain suits and the like if it isn't necessary.

Do I really need an expensive gore-tex rain suit? I run in the rain snow and sleet all the time, never wear gore-tex, and I'm Ok with this, never had any issues. If it's freezing I wear a very light shell over my running shirt, which is never heavier than mid-weight. However, I get to go into my warm house at the end of my runs. Maybe you buy the goretex for when you stop moving? I guess I'm really confused about this. I'll carry a titanium umbrella I bought at REI...I was thinking of buying a good soft-shell jacket that's "water-resistant" and has insulation qualities INSTEAD of a $200 down jacket, $200 gortex jacket, and $100 goretex pants. I could layer this over a fleece jacket that I already own (walmart kind, a little heavy but warm)...comments??

I have some shirts and tights that I use for running. These are polyester/Lycra blends, so I figured these could be base layers. They wick nicely. Is it worth buying silk or wool base layers now?

In summary, here's what I'm thinking of taking clothing-wise...

Above the waist...

Buy a soft-shell...REI women's mistral from last year is on sale for under $100
Generic fleece jacket I already have, though a tad heavy
Running shirt base layer, bring 2 (for example here's one http://www.roadrunnersports.com/cgi-bin/rrs/rrs/ProductPg.jsp?baseProdKey=RRRRL854&catOID=-9280&BV_SessionID=@@@@1765021620.1101733686@@@@&BV_EngineID=eaddcdhhmjhibekgcgecfeedg.0&fromClearance=true )
Running bra
Thinsulate mittens as liners and water resistant gloves where necessary
Knit hat
Baseball cap (with brim, for keeping sun out of eyes)
Eyeglasses strap
Umbrella for rain (titanium, windproof, around 9 oz from REI)

Below the waist...

Running tights, bring 2
My son's old navy convertible pants. These would shed light rain to a degree.
wool blend socks, 2 pair
trail running shoes

MOWGLI
11-29-2004, 09:53
Thanks for the help in advance.

I'm seriously considering hiking the Foothills Trail (see www.foothillstrail.org (http://www.foothillstrail.org/)) in the week between Christmas and New Year's Day. This would be my first "long" hike (~75 miles) and only my second overnight trip. I've read a couple of excellent journals over at trailjournals and searched some posts here and I'm really excited about the trip...darn, it's a month away! Good, now I have plenty of time to fret about the planning part of the trip! :)

I have lots of confusion that I didn't realize that I have until I began trying to plan my trip on a spreadsheet detailing my gear.

I'm having trouble figuring out what gear to take clothing wise. As of yet, I don't really have any cold weather gear specifically to backpacking, so I'll have to buy it or use what is already lying around my house. I want to get some experience out there before sinking the big bucks into gear. And, also, I see lots of gear but they don't seem appropriate for "down South"...I'm not going to be in the high elevations, day temps will be 40's to 50's, nights mid-20's to 30's. I want to plan for the X factor here, of course, for safety reasons but I don't want to go overboard buying down vests and gortex rain suits and the like if it isn't necessary.

Do I really need an expensive gore-tex rain suit? I run in the rain snow and sleet all the time, never wear gore-tex, and I'm Ok with this, never had any issues. If it's freezing I wear a very light shell over my running shirt, which is never heavier than mid-weight. However, I get to go into my warm house at the end of my runs. Maybe you buy the goretex for when you stop moving? I guess I'm really confused about this. I'll carry a titanium umbrella I bought at REI...I was thinking of buying a good soft-shell jacket that's "water-resistant" and has insulation qualities INSTEAD of a $200 down jacket, $200 gortex jacket, and $100 goretex pants. I could layer this over a fleece jacket that I already own (walmart kind, a little heavy but warm)...comments??

I have some shirts and tights that I use for running. These are polyester/Lycra blends, so I figured these could be base layers. They wick nicely. Is it worth buying silk or wool base layers now?

In summary, here's what I'm thinking of taking clothing-wise...

Above the waist...

Buy a soft-shell...REI women's mistral from last year is on sale for under $100
Generic fleece jacket I already have, though a tad heavy
Running shirt base layer, bring 2 (for example here's one http://www.roadrunnersports.com/cgi-bin/rrs/rrs/ProductPg.jsp?baseProdKey=RRRRL854&catOID=-9280&BV_SessionID=@@@@1765021620.1101733686@@@@&BV_EngineID=eaddcdhhmjhibekgcgecfeedg.0&fromClearance=true )
Running bra
Thinsulate mittens as liners and water resistant gloves where necessary
Knit hat
Baseball cap (with brim, for keeping sun out of eyes)
Eyeglasses strap
Umbrella for rain (titanium, windproof, around 9 oz from REI)

Below the waist...

Running tights, bring 2
My son's old navy convertible pants. These would shed light rain to a degree.
wool blend socks, 2 pair
trail running shoes

Congrats on your decision to hike a great trail. Youngblood and I did the hike last January. It was great. A winter hike of the Foothills Trail could bring you a variety of weather conditions. I would plan for temps down into the high teens and low 20s. The low we saw was in the high teens one night.

I wouldn't worry about an expensive Gore Tex jacket. Water "resistant" jackets are not worth carrying. If it pours down rain, they will do you no good. Marmot makes a nice jacket (precip) for about $100. Speaking of expensive rain suits, Youngblood wears Frogg Toggs when hiking. The entire suit is less than $100, and they are manufactued in Alabama. YOu might want to look into them.


You won't have to worry about the sun being in your eyes all that much. You will find yourself in river gorges & woods much of the time.

I hope that helps. Send me a PM if you have any questions about campsites or anything else. Have a great hike.

Little Bear

Youngblood
11-29-2004, 10:10
I think you want waterproof raingear, head to toe, if possible. Umbrellas work great in the right conditions but not in all conditions. You don't won't to get caught soaking wet in cold, windy conditions... that could be life threatening. GoreTex is not required. Breathable stuff makes it easier to vent to prevent overheating but you can live with unbreathable stuff, you just may overheat easier and be warm and wet from perspiration. Warm and wet may not be comfortable, but cold and wet is dangerous.

Cheap plastic rain suits will work, Frogg Toggs and ProVent(?) make lightweight breathable rain suits with hoods that sell for less than a $100 that many light weight backpackers use. Small plastic trash bag liners can be used if necessary over mittens, gloves, liner socks, etc if you don't want to spend money on more expensive solutions... if you use plastic trash bags, take extras, they are very light but not very durable.

Protect your sleeping bag by lining its stuff sack with a plastic trash bag. Do this even if you line your backpack with a platic bag and use a pack cover. Wetness seems to always find its way to the bottom of a pack where the sleeping bag usually sits. You must keep the sleeping bag dry in winter conditions.

Little Bear (MowGli on WhiteBlaze) and I did the Foothills Trail this past winter and it was great hike. I think we might have had temps in the high teens one night and I think the only rain we had was the night we got off the trail to go to the Southern Ruck... we lucked out with the rain on that trip.

I took liner socks and fleece socks for sleeping, silk long johns, extra pair of hiking socks and undies, short sleeve hiking shirt, long sleeve nylon shirt, nylon pants, lightweight jacket (very light fleece + very light nylon), Patagonia Puff Ball vest (this is insurance- don't think I needed it on that trip), fleece hat, fleece neck gaiter, fleece type light weight gloves, light weight fleece mittens, GoreTex over-mittens, large plastic garbage bag with cutouts for head and arms to use as vapor barrier vest, many small plastic garbage liners, baseball cap and Frogg Toggs. On really cold nights I sleep with plastic bags over my liner socks and Frogg Toggs over my silk long johns as a makeshift vapor barrier.

Youngblood

The Solemates
11-29-2004, 10:42
I have hiked the FT 3 times, but never in the winter. I did live in upstate SC and hike in the winter near the FT many times, however, and I would be prepared for a very WIDE temp. range. You may see anything from 60F to 10F...you never know. Three years ago a buddy of mine did the FT over Christmas and he got 14 inches of snow on his trip. This was a freak thing, but you just never know with crazy Southern weather.

Personally, for clothes I'd take:

15 deg bag
long john thermal wicking tops and bottoms
Wicking Tee
convertible pants
1 pr lightweight hiking socks
1 pr heavyweight camp socks
heavyweight (200-300 pile) fleece jacket
lightweight rainjacket (I like the Marmot precip, $75)
lightweight rainpants (Marmot precip)
1 pr hunter's wool convertible mitt/gloves

Rain Man
11-29-2004, 12:05
... I run in the rain snow and sleet all the time, never wear gore-tex, and I'm Ok with this, never had any issues. ...

I used to run a lot and also ran in rain, sleet, and snow on occasion.

I bet I'm preaching to the choir, but since you asked (and commented on "never" wearing Gore-Tex) ....

The minutes and hours that you need "Gore-Tex" (or whatever dry, wind-proof wear) are when you stop running (or hiking) for the day, or even lunch breaks, etc.

So, if you're comparing the actual minutes of running to the actual minutes of hiking, yes, I think your experience translates nicely. But if you were to be comparing "I've never had any issues" running in the rain, snow, and sleet to "will I be safe for several days 24/7 on the trail in similar clothing," then obviously (?) the answer is a big, fat NO.

The only way I could think of to even possibly come close to making it work is spending all your "camp time" in your sleeping bag in your tent.

As the adage goes, "you can be comfortable hiking or you can be comfortable in camp, but you can't be both."

Even though the real question may be camping wear, I do think your running wear does translate nicely for hiking wear, though. Many hikers (I think) over-dress because they are chilly before hitting the trail, and wind up sweating themselves wet right away. With your running wear, you wouldn't be as likely to do that.
:sun
Rain Man

.

C-Stepper
11-29-2004, 19:32
Thanks for all the advice.

Rain Man, I think you put it better than I did...since I'll be solo, I won't have any "camp time"...yes, once I'm done hiking I'll pretty much be in the bag/tent...nothing else to do and nowhere else to hang out! :) Ah, the joy of no kids and no husband...did I say Ah ?? Ahhhhh...

Yeah, well, anyway, my point...I run in the weather all the time, up to 3 hours at a time when seriously training for a specific race, and I'll be sweating! ...but, I guess I'll go ahead and get the rain gear anyway, or at least the jacket, since it sounds like others hiking the same route took jackets. Money isn't really the issue, I just don't want to buy $200 gear and I'm too hot all the time to use it.

The Solemates & Mowgli, thanks for pointing out the Precip...I'll check it out. I know the local REI carries both the jacket & pants.

Youngblood, I have read rave reviews of Frogg Toggs on gear test websites but no one near Raleigh carries them so I'm reluctant to buy what I can't check out first. I did put them on my Christmas list so maybe I'll get some anyway!

orangebug
11-29-2004, 22:16
REI also sells a new jacket by Sierra Designs for aroung $60 - if I remember right. I used this only last 2 weeks hike from Sam's Gap to Damascus with frequent rain and wind. Somehow, I think I like the Precip jacket better, but I'm not sure if that was only nostalgia and frustration over the current weather conditions. I occasionally wore some old Goretex Columbia rain pants, and was glad I had them when I had wind and snow after hard rain.

I'd suggest a thin balacava, warm wool or poly hat that covers your ears, poly t-shirt or long sports bra, two fleece jackets (one for camp and emergencies), capilene undergarments (camp and emergencies), two pairs of socks - one to stay dry for camp, 2 bread bags to serve as vapor barrier socks, thick fleece gloves and thin OR glove shells or another set of bread bags, and a 25F bag and some sort of shelter that will handle water/snow/sleet. Of course, one pair of hiking trousers and possibly rain pants. Trash compactor bags make great protection for the gotta stay dry stuff. These can even provide warmth if you get wet and need to strip and avoid the wind chill thing.

If this is your first long trip alone and winter trip, I'd err on the side of extra gear as if you're going into Central VA. Wet, wind and cold can still put you into trouble with hypothermia in South Carolina. I'd always suggest finding a friend to accompany you on a winter adventure.

If you want to see Frogg Toggs near Raleigh, consider visiting a fishing supply store.

Rain Man
11-29-2004, 23:18
Youngblood, I have read rave reviews of Frogg Toggs on gear test websites but no one near Raleigh carries them so I'm reluctant to buy what I can't check out first. I did put them on my Christmas list so maybe I'll get some anyway!

Right you are about making up your own mind about gear. But for what it's worth, I have a set of Frogg Toggs. My wife has a set. And our daughter Grass who thru-hiked this year has a set (which she used the whole way). They are relatively inexpensive and are light weight. The fabric reminds me of light Tyvek, but that's not what it is. We ordered ours from the manufacturer, but since then I've seen them at Academy Sports and several other places.

And ... they are made in Alabama, if I'm not mistaken

www.froggtoggs.com

Have a great hike!!!
:sun
Rain Man

.

VAMTNHIKER
11-30-2004, 07:59
Thanks for all the advice.
Youngblood, I have read rave reviews of Frogg Toggs on gear test websites but no one near Raleigh carries them so I'm reluctant to buy what I can't check out first. I did put them on my Christmas list so maybe I'll get some anyway!
Bass Pro Shops carry the Frogg Toggs...

Enjoy!

kncats
11-30-2004, 08:35
Your clothing list looks very similar to what my wife and I carry/wear for anticipated temps down into the teens and it works well for us. Personally I wouldn't take both the baseball hat and knit cap. Since the leaves will be off the trees sun in your eyes may be an issue but I'd take sunglasses instead if you're concerned with it. I highly recommend the Frogg Toggs, even if you can't physically check them out ahead of time. They're hard to beat on the issues of weight and cost. One pair we have I bought from an online golfing gear place, there may be a store near you that carries them. Instead of the fleece jacket you may want to check out some of the half-zip pull overs available that are insulated with Primaloft. They pack down better than fleece for when you're not wearing it and are very warm for their weight. My wife just got one from MEC and loves it.

C-Stepper
12-01-2004, 09:29
Send me a PM if you have any questions about campsites or anything else. Have a great hike.

Little BearAh, you are "Little Bear"...I read your trail journal a month or so back when I was trying to decide which "long trail" to hike first. It was really good, thanks for sharing!

I sent my order form for the trail map on Monday. As soon as I get to look it over a bit I'll take you up on your offer of campsite suggestions.

My husband promised to order FroggToggs for my Christmas present. He always thinks its funny...a wife who doesn't ask for diamonds, or a new car, and the clothes she asks for is for the sole purpose of walking into the woods and freezing her ass off...he says his coworkers think I'm a hoot!:banana

Skyline
12-01-2004, 10:53
The Foothills Trail website STILL hasn't been updated since Hurricane Frances--when the FT experienced some manageable damage. It was a later hurricane, Ivan, that really socked the region. No news at all on the site about how the FT fared during Ivan, or what current conditioins are like now.

Has anyone here had any first-hand experience on the FT the past month or so? Are the footbridges in place and useable? What about access to trailheads? Downed trees? Mudslides? Is there any section that's in better shape than the others?

Thanks in advance...

The Solemates
12-01-2004, 11:14
I havent been on the trail recently, but the FT is a VERY well travelled trail and I doubt that serious obstacles would hinder hiking progress. And the only bridges that may be out would be small ones. The bridges across larger rivers (like the Horsepasture and others) are large, suspension type bridges that would probably stand in even fierce conditions. Besides, the hurricanes were months ago and even if conditions were bad, I'm sure they've been repaired by now. Too many hikers and anglers hike that trail for them not to be.

Rain Man
12-01-2004, 12:18
You might go straight to the horse's mouth ... and contact the Foothills club folks to ask all sorts of questions. It's their baby and I'm sure they'd LOVE to talk about it... conditions, bridges, camp sites, weather, gear, pests, the gamut.

I found the Georgia AT Club to be a wealth of up-to-date and generous information when I wanted to hike Georgia.
:sun
Rain Man

.

MOWGLI
12-01-2004, 22:59
Ah, you are "Little Bear"...I read your trail journal a month or so back when I was trying to decide which "long trail" to hike first. It was really good, thanks for sharing!



Glad you enjoyed the journal! Here is a link to it for anyone interested in an account of the Foothills Trail; http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=1882

There are loads of photos in the journal.

Little Bear

Skyline
12-02-2004, 01:17
You might go straight to the horse's mouth ... and contact the Foothills club folks to ask all sorts of questions. It's their baby and I'm sure they'd LOVE to talk about it... conditions, bridges, camp sites, weather, gear, pests, the gamut.

I found the Georgia AT Club to be a wealth of up-to-date and generous information when I wanted to hike Georgia.
:sun
Rain Man

.


Actually, I have written to them, thru their website. Got one response after Hurricane Frances with a promise to get back to me after Ivan's damage was surveyed (never did). A more recent inquiry has gone unanswered. I know they are a volunteer organization and may not have time to answer individual e-mails, but I'd think (hope) they could update their website a little more effectively. Most recent "conditions" report is several months old now, and does not even deal with Ivan's damage.

From regular news media reports, I know the general area was hard hit by Ivan and specifically at least a couple roads leading to FT trailheads were closed after Ivan. Not too awfully far away I-40 was closed by a mudslide, plus some areas had major flooding and so it's a reasonable assumption, I think, that the FT may have sustained significant damage. As priorities go, I'd guess more weight would be given to helping individuals and businesses repair their lives and property, getting roads open, etc. and that trails might have to wait awhile. So a report on conditions on the FT website, updated as things got better, would be welcome.

MOWGLI
12-02-2004, 07:53
Actually, I have written to them, thru their website. Got one response after Hurricane Frances with a promise to get back to me after Ivan's damage was surveyed (never did). A more recent inquiry has gone unanswered. I know they are a volunteer organization and may not have time to answer individual e-mails, but I'd think (hope) they could update their website a little more effectively. Most recent "conditions" report is several months old now, and does not even deal with Ivan's damage.

From regular news media reports, I know the general area was hard hit by Ivan and specifically at least a couple roads leading to FT trailheads were closed after Ivan. Not too awfully far away I-40 was closed by a mudslide, plus some areas had major flooding and so it's a reasonable assumption, I think, that the FT may have sustained significant damage. As priorities go, I'd guess more weight would be given to helping individuals and businesses repair their lives and property, getting roads open, etc. and that trails might have to wait awhile. So a report on conditions on the FT website, updated as things got better, would be welcome.

I'll pass this along to their President today. He is a friend and someone I work closely with on a variety of trail issues. And yes, they are a volunteer organization.