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hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 02:15
we're prepared gear-wise, but footwear is a concern of mine. if you've ever hiked with kids or been around kids hiking a thru (not just weekend/week long hikes), could you please help me understand a few things?

1. footwear - same as adults?

2. pack weight - i'm carrying most everything. kid will have light pack.

3. how many more zeroes to prepare for?

4. we're definitely going NOBO so we can get the big finale at the big K. considering i'll have a child with me who's got shorter legs (not as many miles per day as an adult), we'll have to possibly take more zeroes
(is that true?), more stopping to look at wildlife (which i'm totally down for, since this is "our trip"), etc. i don't want to flip-flop because then we lose the finale again that way. when people don't get to maine by 10/15, perhaps i need to better understand why. do they usually start later than March? take a ton of zeroes?

assuming we start early march, are we looking at finishing by 10/15....or is it seriously such a tight squeeze that i need to be snapped into reality now?

there are plenty other threads for those so bored that they just have to comment on everyone's posts...even with nothing of worth to share. i don't need my dreams crushed by sarcasm here. honesty is welcome as long as you play nice :sun please, enlighten me...

Bucherm
09-13-2010, 02:35
Huh? When does the kid go to school? Even if homeschooled I'm not sure that blowing out 3 months+(I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark here and assume that a 11 year old will seriously slow y'all down) is the best course of action from an ejumacational standpoint.

He could end up like me!

4eyedbuzzard
09-13-2010, 03:05
we're prepared gear-wise, but footwear is a concern of mine. if you've ever hiked with kids or been around kids hiking a thru (not just weekend/week long hikes), could you please help me understand a few things?

2. pack weight - i'm carrying most everything. kid will have light pack. You are going to carry two people's gear? Better rethink that. If an 11 year old in decent physical shape can't carry their own sleeping gear, clothing, personal items, water, etc, you are likely setting yourself up for failure. Yes, they'll carry less than an adult, but if you carry most of their gear you are more likely to have physical problems.


...when people don't get to maine by 10/15, perhaps i need to better understand why. do they usually start later than March? take a ton of zeroes? They just don't make it. The trail is hard. Some get injured. Some get bored with it. Some don't enjoy being cold / hot, wet / dry, sore and tired, bugs, etc - you name it. But most just find that the reality of thru-hiking is much more difficult than the romantic notion of thru-hiking.

thomas533
09-13-2010, 03:15
When I was 11 my parents had my hiking in regular old running shoes unless it was super muddy then I had a light weight pair of hiking shoes. Never had boots until I was 15 or 16.

I would assume the same old "A pound on your feet is like six in your pack" hold true regardless of age. Aim for what ever is lightest and still comfortable. And maybe a pair of Aqua Socks for mud and/or camp.

leaftye
09-13-2010, 04:50
Shoes: Same as for adults, although more important to keep track of. Growth due to aging and growth due to muscular buildup and widening. Keep it light and spacious and expect to replace them more frequently than your own shoes, keeping in mind that adult trail running shoes are pretty much done after 400 miles.

Pack weight: Keep it down as much as possible.

Zeroes: Probably more important for you than the kid. I bet the kid will recover and be feeling better than you almost everyday.


I'd be especially careful about food. Us adults don't mind being deficient in our trail diets. We're done growing and most of us have built-in food stores. Putting a kid in long term deficit could stunt mental and physical growth.

jesse
09-13-2010, 05:07
Never thru hiked. Have hiked with kids, they get bored/tired quickly. Gets very cold in GA early March. My bet is you don't make it to NC. I wouldn't give much thought to finishing until after you start.

IronGutsTommy
09-13-2010, 05:31
wwish you the best of luck. in my thru im planning on zeroing once a week.. 6 days on, one off. this coincides with my resupplies and gives a chance for a hostel/motel stay. alot of making a thru is the mental fortitude and willpower. If you can keep an 11 year old focused on a single task for 5 or 6 months, not only can you make it but you can write a book about parenting and make a mint. seems a hard task, IMO. at any rate I wish you the best, but it might be better to consider tackling the trail in sections or at least doing half at a time in a flip flop format. keeping a kid focused (and out of school) for six months just doesnt seem possible, not even factoring in the trail diet, weather etc. definitely pack some flintstones gummy vitamins for the child.

kanga
09-13-2010, 07:45
just a thought: have you talked with your child's pediatrician? i don't have any kids, but am wondering if that amount of long distance hiking my not mess with development? kids are still very actively growing until about age 16. would that kind of stress mess with that?

berkshirebirder
09-13-2010, 08:11
...most just find that the reality of thru-hiking is much more difficult than the romantic notion of thru-hiking. --4EBuzzard

2Girlsbping, you didn't mention where you live and how much backpacking you and the 11-year-old have done, especially in mountains. Advice would depend on that information.

rhjanes
09-13-2010, 09:12
Read an excellent Thru, family (mom, dad, kid), funny stuff also.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=88651

bulldog49
09-13-2010, 09:24
i don't need my dreams crushed by sarcasm here. honesty is welcome as long as you play nice :sun please, enlighten me...

Sounds like "it's all about you". Enlightening enough?

JAK
09-13-2010, 09:48
1. footwear - same as adults?

Definitely can be as light or lighter.
Less weight on kids feet even with smaller feet.

2. pack weight - i'm carrying most everything. kid will have light pack.

Very wise. My rule for kids is height x height a 0.5 to 1.0 = max weight. So for a 4' 6" kid, 10 to 20 pounds max, depending on how lean and strong they are. It is a good rule for you to follow also. If 5'6" tall, 15 to 30 pounds max, depending on how lean and strong you are. Give yourself time to adjust, so more frequent resupplies early on, and a later start would allow you to pack lighter. Kids are growing, so use more caution for them, so closer to 0.5 .

3. how many more zeroes to prepare for?

I don't think kids need more zeroes. I think they actually need less. That assumes they are having fun. If they aren't having fun I don't think zeroes would help. Zeroes and neroes are more for you, if you are carrying most of the weight, plus your own weight.

4. we're definitely going NOBO so we can get the big finale at the big K. considering i'll have a child with me who's got shorter legs (not as many miles per day as an adult), we'll have to possibly take more zeroes
(is that true?), more stopping to look at wildlife (which i'm totally down for, since this is "our trip"), etc. i don't want to flip-flop because then we lose the finale again that way. when people don't get to maine by 10/15, perhaps i need to better understand why. do they usually start later than March? take a ton of zeroes?

Again, even with shorter legs, I don't think kids shouls have trouble keeping up. if so they are carrying too much weight. My daughter can definitely out hike me, as long as I carry the weight. That is the key. Human children are designed to keep up, and learn, but not to carry weight. They do like to doddle and poke around at stuff though, which is tied in to the fact that they are in hyper-learn mode. So you do need to be willing to stop and let them doddle. You can prod them along some, but it is a balance. For myself the best balance has ALWAYS been for me to carry pretty much EVERYTHING unless she specifically asks for something, like her water bottle or jacket or whatever, and I also have to be ready to take it all back. She likes hiking sticks also, but the best thing is to make them along the way, so she can leave them behind when she wants to, and make another one later.

5. assuming we start early march, are we looking at finishing by 10/15....or is it seriously such a tight squeeze that i need to be snapped into reality now?

I wouldn't be afraid to set katahdin as your ultimate goal, but don't make that the success/fail criterion. Make the ultimate purpose to hike and share as many days as you can on the trail and in trail towns along the way. Think in terms of hiking days, not miles. If she wants to stop and play, that is what you are really there for. For a child, every place they stop to play is Katahdin, not Katahdin. For you, as a parent, your Katahdin is every day you spend hiking with them.

Totally doable, but manage your own personal expectations.

sbhikes
09-13-2010, 09:56
Read Zero Days about a family with a 10 year old girl who thru-hiked the PCT. The kid was very determined. It was very educational for her. She finished the trail in the snow in October.

I remember backpacking at age 8 or 9 and the boots I had really really hurt. I will never forget how much they hurt. I would recommend sneakers instead.

JAK
09-13-2010, 10:01
If I get only 7 days a year hiking with my daughter I have learned to accept that. It's hard. You get ideas and want to share more with them, but there are other all these other distractions. They want to be around other kids, even if all the other kids stay in an watch TV and stuff. I have kept her outdoors more by mixing it up with other stuff besides hiking and camping, like day hikes, cross-country running, indoor track even though its really inside, outdoor track, cross-country skiing, and this past summer she joined a learn-to-sprint kayaking club, which was great. I hope you can spend alot of time in the woods with your 11 year old though, because there is nothing quite like hiking and camping in the woods.

weary
09-13-2010, 10:10
The most important thing is to get the kid onto trails and doing a lot of weekend and longer hikes. Carry group stuff, but the kid should carry his own sleeping bag, clothing and some of the food. It will make him part of the trip, not just a kid following his parent. It also will lessen your pack, which is always important.

Weary

4eyedbuzzard
09-13-2010, 10:23
Here's a pic from http://www.trailspace.com/articles/backpacking-with-a-grade-schooler.html That's Mary, Barbara Egbert's 10 year old daughter on their 2004 PCT thru-hike. Of particular note is that this young lady logged thousands of trail miles prior to this thru-hike.

http://www.trailspace.com/images/gear/guide/2009/07/03/rainier-500x375.jpg

JAK
09-13-2010, 10:31
I have heard that argument, but my daughter has NEVER not felt part of the trip because I have carried everything. I think as long as you don't focus too much on gear, the kids will not be too focused on gear. It does happen though eventually. People like stuff. She is a shopaholic in town, like her mother, but so far that hasn't translated to hiking stuff. She wants a new school pack each year, but settles for one every 3 years or so. For some reason she has never wanted a pack though, or to take her day pack hiking. It might be because out hikes have always been pretty long, like 10km to 20km for a day hike. She knows the advantage of packing light. The other advantage of carrying everything is that it slows me down enough that I do not complain as much when she stops to poke around at something. It is very important to encourage them to hike, but not to discourage them from play time either.

My daughter is turning 11 soon, but still only weighs 63 pounds or so. There are no packs made that are light enough. She can carry my 10oz daypack reasonable well even though it is a bit long. Those track bags with simple drawsting straps work really well if they just want to carry a few things, which is fine. I might make her a pack this fall, and a sleeping bag maybe, but sleeping bags are another problem with kids. You have to make your own solutions for kids, even more than for adults. She is 4'3" so my limit for her is 9-18 pounds, and I err well on the side of 9 pounds, and I'm prepared to carry that myself also. I can carry an extra 10 pounds easily enough.

JAK
09-13-2010, 10:43
Kids that age are super-incredible endurance machines, but they are not beasts of burden. I saw a program on David Suzuki the other day about the last Nomads in Borneo, and they showed a family group moving their village. The younger kids did carry some stuff, but very little, and the adults were carrying monster packs. the weight carried seemed to increase more exponentially with age and height, rather than linearly.

Sleeping bag is not a bad idea though, if it is high volume and low weight. It gets into the issue of whether it is better to share a quilt. On our summer trip 2 years ago we shared blankets, but fall is more problematic. We share a 3'x6' tent which helps, but if I use my 3 pound sleeping bag I share less heat with her. We might both fit into my 30" wind gortex bivy, but with blankets or quilts it would be tight. Probably will make a summer bag for her, by cutting down the light adult bag she uses now. I will put her in that, and then share a quilt on top of that. She might carry her bag, and I the quilt.

I do like the idea of having her carry stuff do develop her sense of independance. I just have never been able to get the weight down enough for her to carry it all. Working on it.

sbhikes
09-13-2010, 11:53
I met a cute little girl last year near Lyell Canyon in the Sierras. She carried very little, but what she did have was very fashionable. She wore a pink flowered skirt, orange striped leggings, carried a purse/pack shaped like a stuffed animal, zebra stripes were included in there somewhere. She was just awesome.

When I was a girl my dad took me fishing all the time. I loved fishing. I baited my own hooks and cut the heads off the fish. I even went fishing by myself. I'm thinking of taking it up again.

JAK
09-13-2010, 12:12
Little fishies in the brook.
Grandad catch 'em by the hook.
Mummy fry 'em in the pan.
Daddy eat 'em like a man.

[ just a little sexist. :) ]


I have but only one question.
My question's simply this;
Are all fishermen liars,
Or do only liars fish?

Panzer1
09-13-2010, 12:25
A nice section hike with vehicle support from "Mom" might be more practical.

Panzer

Aesop43
09-13-2010, 12:37
I'm not trying to be defeatist or to rain on your parade, but I say, in all seriousness, that one of the most important things to prepare is how to handle the 11 year-old wanting to quit.

How will the decision be made? Where will it be appropriate for you to encourage him/her to keep on & keep trying? When should you "pull the plug", if necessary?

How will the child be able to say "no more" without feeling that they've failed or disappointed you?

The flip side to the potential boon to the child's self-esteem from a "successful" hike -- however you define it -- is long-lasting emotional damage that could accompany "failure"

Jeff
09-13-2010, 12:59
Chili and Pepper (father/son) stayed with us this summer. When Chili started his NOBO thru this year he was 10 years old. He looked to be doing great...even better than dad.

Here is a picture of them:

http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=564187

PM me if you want their email address. I am sure they could offer loads of insight.

hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 12:59
you'll have to forgive me. i'm not sure how to quote certain sections of the comments above, or i would. so here goes...

i should be more specific about my daughter's pack weight. i'm not making her carry all her weight, but yes, she will carry a backpack and the gear that's comfortable to her. as JAK said, you have to be prepared to carry it all, if needed. however, i don't plan on that being the entire trip. same as when we go backpacking now.....just for about 5 months longer :-)

bucherm - yep, homeschooling. the only part i haven't figured out is how assignments, required annual testing, and all would work itself out. but i'm working toward figuring all that out. in your defense, i've questioned WHY exactly i'm bringing my daughter at her age. but my answer keeps coming back to....she loves backpacking and we're best friends. there's no one i'd rather do it with, and vice versa. she's currently in advanced classes, so as long as i can keep up (not her!) with what she needs to learn, i believe we can make it work. others have. i can't allow this to defeat our goal of the AT. and for the record...if she turns out like you, it wouldn't be so bad.

thomas533 - she likes low top boots and trail runners with gaiters, so i'll try to keep them light. thanks!

leaftye - i planned on lighter extras for sugar/salt/electrolyte levels. good point about her not having built in food storage like adults. i will be tackling child nutrition next to ensure my baby stays strong, healthy, and totally enjoys this...

IronGutsTommy - it's so funny you mention writing a book about this trip. my daughter is a "writer" in her own mind. i believe she's pretty darn good at it, but perhaps i'm biased. when i added the perk of her carrying her own journal to write her experiences down in, she illuminated! and yes, i've actually considered taking a swing at my own journal/book so more parents can work through the challenges i have in preparing for a younger one, and taking care of, what to expect, and protecting one on the trail (keeping her mindful of snakes is a huge concern of mine). i promise to thank you all for your contribution to my journey!!!!!! but i refuse to share proceeds :-) i can't promise the chapters toward the end won't be about me griping about her skipping up boulders as i gasp for air, holding her pack and mine (accidentally inhaling black flies and mosquitoes). i promise to make it humorous so as not to make this a lullaby book. and, for all the men out there, i promise to make the last chapter about how it makes a mom feel to watch her child walk through nature with wide eyes, soaking in the smell of the water falling on canopy of trees above us, and how enjoyable skipping through waterfalls and rivers was. that part will be dedicated to you...and your cure for insomnia.

kanga - my daughter's doctor supports us and has given her physical an "ok" for the trip. daily vitamins were suggested, and more-often snacks, food, water. i realize this means extra weight, but if it's necessary, we'll find a way by trimming out luxury weight other places. suggestions on vitamins?

berkshirebirder - sorry about that! i'm from NJ, but haven't hiked any up there yet. we live in SC and backpack year round in GA, SC, and NC (blue ridge area mostly). mountains are something we are quite familiar with. the boulders way up north actually intimidate me more.

rhjanes - thank you - i'll check it out tonight!!!!

JAK - i love your idea about a disposable hiking stick (kind to nature and the senseless weight we're carrying when one isn't needed). it makes so much sense that i didn't think of it. i totally agree with what you say about not making the trip a success/fail criterion. the kiddo will just be happy to be doing it. me, on the other hand, am dreading the "you can't finish" when you've gone so far. i'm trying to work through this one. i'll have to, or there's no sense in taking the trip at all! i can't let not getting to katahdin stop us from going at all because we were so close yet so far away. although i'd hate to, i'm sure i'd flip-flop if forced to, in order to do the entire thru.

right now, she's a biker - with me - (long, flat city trails through several cities), a competitive swimmer, basketball player, and (what i'm most proud of) a skater. we quad skate together because i road skate and play roller derby. so proud :-) ANWAY...i realize "home" activities are way different than the challenges of the trail (for adults as well). i'm trying to focus more on the mental strength than the physical (although i'm glad she has that, too). would you agree that's most important? ((btw - it's great to hear of someone doing so much with their child, too - ROCK ON, JAK!))

the great thing about this trip is that we'll be stopping in NJ as we pass our family and my brother (who is a backpacking fan, as well as relates VERY well to my child intellectually - like a kid...) will be joining us for a few hundred miles. so this will give us a recharge, i'm sure. i feel quite fortunate for this - not to mention super excited!

ok, so lovers and haters of kids on the trail...have at it. if you don't agree with what i'm doing, that's fine. play nice, but i'd love to hear your take. i want the pros and cons so i can weigh out and prepare for everything. thank you everyone so far for being so supportive!!!

i have two other concerns if anyone cares to pitch in some thoughts/ideas. any way to get around hitchhiking? is public transportation just not available in some areas?

shelters - we've never slept in one. we're both terrified of rodents. what could i do in areas where sleeping in the remote woods is prohibited? is there room to tent camp BY the shelter?

there are a few more replies that came in after i typed this. have to go back to work - i'll reply to them tonight. again, thanks for everything, guys!!!!!!!!!!

JAK
09-13-2010, 13:10
With an 11 year I would not make completion of the thru-hike an end goal. I would simply make 6 months of living and going to school on the trail the plan. Plans would change as soon as they stopped being fun or constructive.

11 year olds are not goal oriented. 11 year olds are learning oriented. They need to be driven by curiousity each and every day. A mountain at the end of a 4-6 month journey means nothing to them. They are not crazy focused like adults. They are learners not do-ers. Kid's make great adventurers, but the adventure needs to be every day, not the end. In that sense they would have a much better mind-set and outlook than most adults, but perhaps less likely to finish. It's a rather arbiutrary goal anyway, compared to all the possible discoveries and excitement along the way. The parent/guide would leave the complete 2200 mile journey open as an option, but no more so than continuing on for another 22000 miles would be an option. Both mean about the same thing to a 11 year old. 6 months might as well be 1 month or 6 years. Their horizon is 6 minutes, perhaps 6 hours. Celebrate each day. Leave Katahdin as a vague notion.

JAK
09-13-2010, 13:14
Then again, some kids can be extremely driven at a young age. Ya never know.
Getting them back off the trail might be the problem. lol

JAK
09-13-2010, 13:18
Those two posts were more in response to Aesops honest concerns.
Thanks for the comments hontassquirt. (pocahontas and squirt I take it? )
Rock on.

Miner
09-13-2010, 13:29
Read "Zero Days" [by Barbara Egbert which is] about a family with a 10 year old girl who thru-hiked the PCT. The kid was very determined. It was very educational for her. She finished the trail in the snow in October.
I second this. Get a copy as its written as much about their family dynamics on the trail as it was about the adventure. Good story overall.

weary
09-13-2010, 13:35
When family backpacking I carried the bulk of the weight. But the kids carried clothing and sleeping bags -- eventually even the 3-year-old.

After two nights at Chimney Pond, half the way to the summit of Katahdin, we started down. The three-year-old was sobbing. Then his older sister, who was almost 7, fell and didn't want to carry her pack. So I put it on the youngest. He brightened immediately. Nary a whimper in the 3.5 miles to the car. At last he was part of the trip. Not just the baby.

Weary

JAK
09-13-2010, 13:37
"i have two other concerns if anyone cares to pitch in some thoughts/ideas. any way to get around hitchhiking? is public transportation just not available in some areas?"

That brings up some very interesting question. I can see trail towns and resupplies being very disruptive to a youngster. Yet you would probably need to resupply just as regularly, if not more regularly with you carrying some of her stuff. I think kids more per pound of bodyweight, but perhaps less as a percentage of how much they can carry. I never ever figured out how much my daughter reall needs while hiking, because the most we did in a row was 2.5 days, and she eats so little its so hard to say. I always figured about half of what I eat, which is safe as she weighs less than a third of what I weigh. She has no fat to burn though, so on the trail she might eat just as much if I am burning fat and she is only burning food. Anyhow, you yourself would probably not be in the 2 pounds a day category when hiking with a child. I don't know how big you are, but women are more efficient than men anyway. Say 1 pound a day if still losing some weight and 1.5 pounds a day once leaned down. An 11 year old, really depends on if they are in a growth spurt, and how big they are, so could well be more than mom, if not at the start then by the time you are done. She might be carrying your stuff by the time you are done also. Anyhow, I think the frequency of resupply might be the same as any other group, so at least once a week to reduce shuttling, perhaps twice to reduce weight.

I myself would not mind walking in to town for supplies, but I think those sorts of mile would be tougher on a kid psycologically. Other folks can answer better than I about shuttles. Once in town, I think you could make it alot of fun for her, so she looks forward to resupply, but not so interesting that she does not enjoy the trail just as much. If you did education on the trail as well as in the resupply towns, a few hours of homework in the library might be enough to get here moving back to the trail again. lol

Has she read "My Side of The Mountain". I read it in grade 5 but haven't found it for my daughter yet. Very educational and it had alot to do with why I love the woods even today, though the bug was already there.

On our 3 day hike on the Footpath we brought along 6 Micmac Stories and read 2 each day. We also bring a book on edible plants. She really enjoyed that one this summer.

JAK
09-13-2010, 13:41
When family backpacking I carried the bulk of the weight. But the kids carried clothing and sleeping bags -- eventually even the 3-year-old.

After two nights at Chimney Pond, half the way to the summit of Katahdin, we started down. The three-year-old was sobbing. Then his older sister, who was almost 7, fell and didn't want to carry her pack. So I put it on the youngest. He brightened immediately. Nary a whimper in the 3.5 miles to the car. At last he was part of the trip. Not just the baby.

Weary
Interesting. Still don't get the fascination with carrying the weight, unless it is a somatic thing from the parents. If the parents think that other things are more important, the child will think that other things are more important. Having more than one child along changes everything also. If one has a pack, yeah, they all must have packs. Bringing a dog is a great way to keep kids moving.

JAK
09-13-2010, 13:43
We have never called it backpacking. That is part of it.
For us it has always been hiking. Its not about the pack.
I kind of beat that into her though, from an early age.

Brainwash early. Brainwash often.

peakbagger
09-13-2010, 15:28
With regards to mice in shelters, there are plenty of options for camping outside until you hit the smokies. I really expect it will be a non issue by the time you reach the smokies, but one option is a bug bivy http://www.outdoorresearch.com/site/bug_bivy.html
The mice may crawl over it but unless you have food inside they rarely will chew through one.

I have seen folks who use a bug bivy and a sylnylon tarp instead of a tent. Probably not the best in early season weather but once it warms up, its a nice option.

sbhikes
09-13-2010, 16:00
The hitchhiking seems scary and dangerous until you actually do it. I found it to be spiritually uplifting. People picked me up because they were dreamers who knew about the trail and knew what I was doing and wanted to be a part of it. Lots of people out there know about the trail and are on alert at hiking season to help out. Those that don't know about the trail are usually so amazed when you tell them what you are doing that they just light up. It's really a lot of fun.

Driver8
09-13-2010, 17:44
11 year olds are not goal oriented. 11 year olds are learning oriented. ... Kid's make great adventurers, but the adventure needs to be every day, not the end. In that sense they would have a much better mind-set and outlook than most adults, but perhaps less likely to finish. It's a rather arbiutrary goal anyway, compared to all the possible discoveries and excitement along the way.

This is why I don't see myself ever thru-hiking. Call me an 11-year-old at heart! I see myself hiking 1000 miles of the Trail, and many miles of many others, over the next 20-30 years and beyond, but in segments and weekend jaunts.

But enough about me.

H/S, it sounds like you're going into this with your eyes and ears open. I urge caution and care and attention to your child foremost, but it sounds like you're very much focussed that way. I imagine you've read "A Walk in the Woods" by now, may I suggest that Bill Bryson's terror at things which can go wrong on the trail, comically related mostly in the early chapters, is well worth meditating on? Not so much as to stop you, but just to make sure you are well and thoroughly prepared and maximally aware while on the trail.

Also, have you considered taking no just zeroes but even an occasional stretch of days off? Might be a really good thing to do, especially if you're making good progress on the trail.

I guess what I feel is that I'm thrilled and terrified, all at once, at your dream. Am excited for you at the prospect of the dream, am hopeful and anxious for you that you maintain safety and health along the way.

The biggest of many concerns I'd focus on would be on staying sufficiently clothed and warm. Hypothermia is my own biggest fear about the trail. Will you be ready when and if a fierce late-winter storm blows in, as it did on Bill Bryson and his friend on a narrow, treacherous stretch high atop a mountain in SW North Carolina? That's a hard enough question for an adult, I'd expect a child is the more vulnerable to the effects of a cold blast.

hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 20:08
sbhikes - i just read an excerpt on the book "zero days" and it looks awesome. i'm going to read it and let my daughter read it as well. thanks!!! i love your dad/fishing story, too. and i love how it's unforgettable to you. do you understand why i'm doing this? a little different in extremes, i understand. but the bottom line is still the same. memories, bonding...and now look at you - conquering mountains!

weary - agreed and agreed. mostly, i want her to learn from this. managing pack weight took me a lot of gritting teeth and time (i had mom/hoarder syndrome). she's definitely the type of personality that will have to feel "one" with the trip in order to stick with it. a book on edible plants (like JAK's daughter), or holding her own pack (slowly increasing weight as she gets her little trails legs), or having a "job" like hunting down white blazes while navigating us via compass and map is how my daughter thrives.

JAK - would you alter your daughter's sleeping bag permanently to save weight? i'd hate to do that to a down bag because i'm sure she'll be taller than me in another few years (i'm 5'7", so not extremely tall)...and they don't come cheap.

aesop43 - believe me, i think about this every minute of the day. we actually fell asleep last night talking about just this. i'm a single parent, so we rely heavily on each other's reactions. i know for certain that she'll think twice about cutting the trip short if it's just too much for her. as much as i want to tell her "mommy really wants katadhin", i won't. if i was going with another adult, you bet i'd tell them. but i'm not doing this trip to win anything (although, who wouldn't want katadhin). the ultimate reason for the trip is togetherness, good days, bad days, supporting each other when the other one hurts, crying when we're ticked off at the mosquitoes, and seeing open meadows and sunsets that others "wait" to see, but never go at all. all that said, the bottom line is.....i made this kid. she's so obvious to me that she doesn't have to say a word and i'll know when to quit. mother's know everything :-)

jeff - LOVE the pic! i don't know how to PM yet (new to WB), but i will send you my email address. i'd absolutely love to talk to him!!!!!

JAK - yep, pocahontas and squirt. i had no choice in pocahontas! hahahaa after about a month of that, someone shortened it to "hontas" (thank God). a lady i backpacked with once said i look like pocahontas because my hair is so long (past my butt) and it kind of defines me. i was hoping she'd say it was because of my lovely, dark complexion and cherokee accent, but i am neither american indian, nor olive skinned. my daughter doesn't have a trail name yet, but my dad and brothers have always called her squirt. it kind of stuck....for now.

i haven't decided yet whether i'm taking less weight and more trips into town, or more weight and less trips into town. i'm iffy of more trips into town since i've heard some could be miles off the trail. she'd love walking into town, but if it's a 5 mile trek to town, and 5 miles back to the trail, i believe it'll become too much after a while. now, for the times i know town will be right on the trail, i will for sure do lighter loads when i know i can restock in another few days. but i'm guessing the majority of the towns aren't right there on the trail? i need to get my guide back out. hmmm.....

peakbagger - i'm guessing you're very right - by the time i hit the smokies, i won't mind cuddling up with rats for extra body heat :-) i'm so sure my uptightness will take a nosedive once we've been on the trail for a month or 2. the only reason i'm using a tent rather than a bivy on this trip (i'd love to just use a bivy) is because the munchkin will have to sleep with me.

sbhikes - wow, that's a pretty profound way to describe hitchhiking! don't believe i've ever heard it described as spritually uplifting!!! i guess i'm asking more because i have the little one. me hitchhiking alone is different to me than me and my child hitching together. does that make any sense? it's just different with a kid. so, there's not always public transportation available? i promise, if i break down and hitch, you'll be the first one i tell! but for now, i'm not liking the idea. might be like what peakbagger said though - perhaps by the time i hit the smokies, i won't think twice!

driver 8 - it's hard to explain where we are mentally, in our lives, and what we love in nature, to have it all make sense (in writing) why we're doing this. i appreciate your concerns. i have them myself. but in the same breath, we will be going on the trail. "why"? well, i guess i'll have 6 months on the trail to find the words to put around it. it's funny - the people that know us didn't even flinch when i told them - it's expected of us. you're right - if making good progress on the trail, we could very well take less zeroes and have more consecutive days off. definitely our plan when we hit NJ! i've been in the situation when i've nearly went into hypothermic shock, so i know what you're talking about there. i promise, that feeling will never leave my mind and i will most definitely be taking precaution there!!!

Feral Bill
09-13-2010, 20:34
About the schooling aspect: As a teacher, I'd suggest focusing on the trips intrinsic learning opportunities and avoid any seperate "school" activities. Go heavy on the journaling, perhaps with photography or drawing. Have some books to read as you go. Study local nature. Work out logistics together. See the historic sites along the way and so forth.

Don't sweat the girls ability to hike with a pack. A sturdy 11 year old can carry enough that you won't collapse under the rest, especially if you pack light.

Do let us know how it goes. I, at least, am pulling for you.

FB

George
09-13-2010, 21:03
for footwear a good light running shoe that can be readily obtained in a range of sizes and sent to you, as they wear out and the feet change or the temp/thickness of socks change. Plan on 4 pair, they may look OK but the foam breaks down. For pack weight 15 lb should make the child near independent, the AT is not exactly wilderness so your pack need not ever be more than 30. If you go the 2000 you will not likely always hike together so the child should always carry a basic setup- sleeping bag, some food, etc , possibly a light bivy sack ( this also gives the option of close by independence) you will find plenty of people you will trust for your child to hike with and if you end up spending a night apart it need not be a crisis

hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 21:11
ahhhhhh, thank you. i'm glad to have a hiker/teacher's perspective. taking your kid out of school....out of the "normal", everyday world (even if just a few months) is a huge decision for me. since 99.9999998% of people don't do that, you kind of start questioning if there's a reason why they don't. so far, i have found no reason NOT to do it. it's nice to have your support as a teacher. thank you so much :-)

hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 21:19
george, i couldn't agree more - even on short hikes around home - she's always got her survival bag - her REI Flash 18 - with what she needs to make it without me in the woods. for my daughter to grow up and understand people, relate to people, and gain her own personal independence would be the greatest gift to me out of all this. i grew up with very little direction and made some really stupid mistakes in life because of it. it would be great to know i raised my daughter to be sweet, sensitive, kind....yet independent.

are you talking about 4 pair in addition to boots? or running shoes for the entire haul?

George
09-13-2010, 21:29
running shoes for everything, wear light all day and you will not be dying to take them off- I did not quite raise my kids to be sweet, sensitive and kind but they are independent and my wife made them behave

hontassquirt
09-13-2010, 23:31
hahahaa! what about water proofing? aren't they pretty much guaranteed to soak through?

IronGutsTommy
09-14-2010, 00:50
trail runners and sneakers dry pretty quickly, especially runners. its boots, especially gortex, that simply refuse to dry in a timely manner. as was mentioned, aqua socks are great camp shoes and stream crossers

Driver8
09-14-2010, 02:21
About the schooling aspect: As a teacher, I'd suggest focusing on the trips intrinsic learning opportunities and avoid any seperate "school" activities. Go heavy on the journaling, perhaps with photography or drawing. Have some books to read as you go. Study local nature. Work out logistics together. See the historic sites along the way and so forth.

Don't sweat the girls ability to hike with a pack. A sturdy 11 year old can carry enough that you won't collapse under the rest, especially if you pack light.

Do let us know how it goes. I, at least, am pulling for you.

FB

Pretty well wholly agree. The trail is an educational exercise in itself. I'd sic your child (and yourself for that matter) on some high-quality descriptive books about the geology, flora and fauna of the Appalachians, some books about the history. You can work on math by calculating grade, geometry and even trig by figuring out how to figure this summit's height given the next one's and the one before.

Look up civil war battles which were fought at or near the trail, revolutionary ones, too. History of settlement of the areas around the trail, farming and foresting and ranching and mining - all these things can be noted as, often, you note successional forests which grow where orchards, or mines, or logging operations, etc. once occurred. Study prominent landscape artists who have worked a given area, photographers, too. Home school writ large!

JAK
09-14-2010, 04:15
JAK - would you alter your daughter's sleeping bag permanently to save weight? i'd hate to do that to a down bag because i'm sure she'll be taller than me in another few years (i'm 5'7", so not extremely tall)...and they don't come cheap.

I'm sure you and your daughter will work something out. I don't know how tall your daughter is, but at her age she could be quite a bit taller in a years time, so she might grow into a small woman's bag by that time. In the mean time she might be too short and have trouble keeping the bag as warm as she would once she is larger. No, I wouldn't mess with a good down bag. The problem is more that there is not a great selection of good children's bag. My daughter is 4'3" and 63 pounds, turning 11 in 2-3 weeks. Yours is most likely taller and larger, as most are, so you may not have this issue. When is your daughter going to have her growth spurt? I guess that is the question. Could be interesting keeping her in clothes if it happens while she is thru-hiking. The effects of distance hiking during growth spurts is something you might look into also, but I know it is a natural thing for humans to do, as long as they are not over-burdened. Still, some people may have issues even if they are not distance hiking. I has osgoode schlatters. Your doctor will probably tell you to keep an eye out for certain things if she grows alot in a short time.

I think the best sleeping solution for the two of you would be to have two decent sleeping bags, yours sized to fit you well, hers size to fit her with some room for growth. A good small-adults bag for her will probably keep her as warm for its weight as a lower quality childs bag that fits her, so if she isn't too short, a good quality small-womans bag would be the way to go. For temperature rating, others might chime in, but in your situation you might both have lighter summer bag, not too light but 30F maybe, and make a DIY overquilt that covers the two of you for use in the early months, and later in the fall. You can send it home during the summer months. Experiment this fall on sleeping systems for the two of you. Perhaps instead of a sleeping bag you can both DIY a down quilt for each of you, or at least for her, custom fit. Look into separate down hoods also, covering neck as well, as season extenders, and to complete a DIY down quilt / sleeping pad system. For shelter for 2, 5'7" and under, there should be some light choices, and again you both might consider DIYing something for a custom fit. Good educational opportunities.

I think as Feral Bill said there is no end of educational opportunites along the trail. Journal writing, especially in the old fashioned way including observations and sketches about flora and fauna and geology and natural history. You won't be able to bring heavy books, but maybe the two of you could develop some lesson plans ahead of time, stuffed with field notes on all sorts of things from various sources, and load them into a small electronic device like a ipod touch. The only thing I would suppliment from off trail would be advanced math. There will be alot of opportunities for logistical math and map work and so forth, but you should maybe throw in some geometry and algebra as well. Music is also a good one. Maybe not a tuba.

JAK
09-14-2010, 04:17
Hope you have alot of great hikes this fall while testing out ideas and building on your dreams.

JAK
09-14-2010, 04:51
For footwear, lately I have been hiking in Adidas Adizeros, which are a very light running flat. I like them especially because they absorb zero water and drain well. They don't have much support or protection against stubbing your toes and such, but they have some. If carrying more weight, like I would if hiking with my daughter for 5 days in Spring or Fall, I would have a trail runner with more protection and undercushion, but one that still drains well, and do not absorb water. Trail runners that absorb water can be very cold in wet snow and keep your socks wet, so if you can't stay on top of the snow, you have to find a system that will work for you in the snow. You have to develop and test something that will work for you.

weary
09-14-2010, 13:58
If I were hiking with an 11-year-old, I wouldn't start until April 1. This eases slightly the months of school lost, and partially solves the weight problem, since the later one starts the warmer the temperatures are likely to be.

Plus early spring is just a more enjoyable time to be in the woods, compared with late winter.

I would still have 6 and a half months before Katahdin closes.

Weary

hontassquirt
09-14-2010, 19:18
yeah, i use trail runners and they do dry pretty quickly. i think i may go with these for the little one because they're lightweight, water resistant, and have soles made for the trail.

anyone ever use five fingers? i've never tried them, but i'm tempted.

as for schooling...i thought it was REQUIRED to keep your kid in school (if it wasn't a medical condition) or the school police come after you (aka DSS). learning nature and you're surroundings on the trail is a must (and an enjoyable one at that). a large part of what i'm most excited about is to be 33 years old and to learn about things i've always wanted to know. like what kind of reptile i'm looking at, what kind of berries we can eat, what the history of this shelter is and when it was built, the history of the town we're visiting, etc. and to top it off, i get to learn with my best friend who will keep this knowledge forever and ever. i'm in heaven just by the thought of it!

sorry for the tangent.... i planned on getting the details of what i have to do about school already, but i've been sidetracked researching some other things you guys have mentioned to me about things i thought i had nipped in the bud (but apparently don't).

the one thing i talk about with my hiker friends is how i totally lack any skill in DIY. i can't sew, mend, hem, nothing. as it stands, if i can't buy it the way i want it, i don't buy it. sad, i know. i need to be a "better woman" and learn some skills so i can alter gear to my liking. i love our gear....but if i was savvy with a thread and needle, i'd be REALLY happy with what we have, and could probably spend a lot less on the items i buy. (no, i can't cook either - must be why i love backpacking - everything tastes good after a long hike :-)

leaving in april versus may versus march versus tomorrow has been a nagging issue of mine. one minute I'm certain of one date, and the next day i change it by an entire month. the winters here can be so unpredictable (i live in the border area of GA/NC/SC). i could very well have sunny days in the 80's....or snow storms in mid april. last year, it was 90 early in the week, and snow stormed that same week. it's all messing with my MINNNNNDDDDDD!!!!!! can i settle on a date closer to that time, or is there a reason to build your entire thru around the leave date? i can see where you'll need to know whether or not to bring summer or winter gear, but i'm a cold sleeper anyway and will probably have my down bag through june. i'd really love your thoughts on this.

i'm so happy i found this group (which was purely by accident). i was pretty comfortable to begin with thinking i have nearly all my plans set (nearly), i know what i want to do, and it's just a matter of getting things in order now. but i realized there are many things i've overlooked and i couldn't be more grateful for everyone's input. we're so excited about this trip and i'm getting more confident by the day. thank you all SOOOO much...

Feral Bill
09-14-2010, 20:40
[. The only thing I would suppliment from off trail would be advanced math. There will be alot of opportunities for logistical math and map work and so forth, but you should maybe throw in some geometry and algebra as well. QUOTE]

In the USA 11 year olds are still in arithmatic. No need for higher math than comes along in the course of the hike. It all depends on the kid, naturally.

Feral Bill
09-14-2010, 20:51
Laws vary by state, but I doubt you will be challanged as a home schooler. A small notebook documenting your activities will likely allay any problems. If your state requires annual testing for home schoolers, you can probably do that upon return.

I must state that I generally do not support home schooling, except in special circumstances. Your trip would qualify.

bigcranky
09-14-2010, 21:26
Trail runners are fine. They dry more quickly than boots anyway.

You'll be "home schooling," not "truant."

Plan to go into town to resupply -- most towns are a few miles off the trail, but hitching is easy during thru-hiker season, and many hostels and other service providers will give rides. Hitching is not a big deal for hikers, and you meet some awesome people that way.

My daughter has been backpacking since she was 4. They key has always been to hike her hike, not my own hike. Oh, and I always had to make sure she ate enough -- it's amazing what some beef jerky or a handful of gorp will do when spirits start to flag.

Good luck.

Driver8
09-14-2010, 22:11
the one thing i talk about with my hiker friends is how i totally lack any skill in DIY. i can't sew, mend, hem, nothing. as it stands, if i can't buy it the way i want it, i don't buy it. sad, i know. i need to be a "better woman" and learn some skills so i can alter gear to my liking. i love our gear....but if i was savvy with a thread and needle, i'd be REALLY happy with what we have, and could probably spend a lot less on the items i buy. (no, i can't cook either - must be why i love backpacking - everything tastes good after a long hike :-)

Think like Yoda from Star Wars, H/s. Make up your mind to learn something, and you'd surprised what you can do. You and your daughter can learn these things together - inspire each other in the process. :) She might be better at some things and you at others - it can be a team effort.

As to in-school requirements, I'd check with home-schooling DBs for ppl in your state. Tell them you're planning a long vacay with daughte and want to know what you need to do to meet school reqmts. Only tell them about the details of the trip if you feel comfortable doing so - that's not really their business unless you decide to share it, for all they know it could be a trip to Europe or the Pyramids or Hawai'i. That's what I'd do were I in your position.

Cheers,

Chris

hontassquirt
09-14-2010, 23:21
feral bill - thanks for the support....really. i know it's not a teacher friendly subject, but i figured the hiker in you would take higher authority in judgement :clap

bigcranky - my daughter loves my gorp, and it's great for our trips now. but i've heard for the length of the AT, the weight becomes unnecessary and people go for WAY lighter options. is that true? i'd love to take my gorp (because my gorp....well, ROCKS), but i can understand the weight concern. i hate jerky, but the kiddo loves it. good suggestion - as long as she walks behind me so i can't smell it. uuugghhhh...

driver8 - yoda, huh? we will try to hone into our yoda powers and sew. that's part of the fun of backpacking - altering your gear. we haven't done that yet and it really bums me out. i have a ton of gear because we switch stuff out all the time, but no fun altered stuff. bummer

i have to check on school "leave of absenses". i've been sidetracked with mail drops and how to prepare for them. it's stressing me out! i guess a better organized person would have contacted the school already. i'm doing things in my order - perhaps not the best order. in time....in time....i'll have everything together! once we're on the trail, i won't care!

Feral Bill
09-14-2010, 23:47
feral bill - thanks for the support....really. i know it's not a teacher friendly subject, but i figured the hiker in you would take higher authority in judgement :clap

!

The educator and hiker in me agree.

IronGutsTommy
09-15-2010, 01:05
plenty of simple algebra can be taught while resupplying.. "honey, we had 50 dollars before we entered the store. now we have 22 dollars. how much did we spend in the store?" X=50-22
lots of great eduacational trail related opportunities. short term homeschoolings fine.. long term can hurt them socially, as schools a great social experience that builds confidence, communication, etc etc... p.s. if you can resupply for only 28 dollars kudos to you, be sure and show your work so we can cheat off you for the big exam in Damascus.

aufgahoban
09-15-2010, 08:35
Most schools truancy rules are based on the federal funding they get for each kid.. So usually no matter what the reason is, if a kid misses more than X amount of days, the school doesn't get funded for that kid. I took my daughter out of Kindergarten to spend 3 weeks in Europe and it was a huge battle. I understand the schools side, they need the funding for the kids. On the parents side, you practically have to pull the kid out entirely, 'homeschool' them, and then you can always re enroll them later of you want them to take an extended break. Just tell them that 'homeschooling' wasn't for you. The rules vary from state to state, but my personal experience has been that if you do homeschool for a while (years even) they will gladly accept your child back whenever you are ready to re enroll them. You can find out what your child will be missing during those months and make sure they have at least the general concepts down so they don't find themselves left behind when they re enter later.

JAK
09-15-2010, 09:21
Trail runners dry quick enough in some conditions, but not in others when you really need them to, but still better than most hiking shoes/boots. The worst scenario is wet snow, or even dry snow once the trail runners are wet. Once they are wet they keep your socks wet and conduct the heat from your foot to keep melting more snow. If your trail runners hold alot of water if you change socks the new socks will be instantly soaked. So then you need to go with some sort of neoprene or nylon or plastic bag liner between your sock and the sneaker, so you can but on dry socks. The sneaker might still stay wet, or might freeze. Sometimes stretching a large wool sock over the sneaker will help dry the sneaker out. The best solution I have found is to go with a trail runner than does not hold ANY water. This means there is very little padding, so it is more important to get a good fit. You may want them sized large enough to fit thicker socks. Ideally, they will fit well with a range of sock thickness, so you can use thin wool or nylon dress socks on hot days or dry active days, and perhaps even two pair of medium socks or a light and heavy sock in snow conditions. If starting late enough that there is little to no risk of snow, or ditches of melting snow and water on the flat sections of trails through the woods, then it is not so important that trail runners have less padding, and you might go for what seems like a more comfortable fit in the store. In my own opinion however, the heavy padding of many running shoes and trail runners is not neccessary, except to make the same size fit more people, or perhaps to make them feel more confortable in stores, but not on the trail when they are completely soaked. Ideally, trail runners will absorb so little water than you can go through a stream by taking your socks off and putting the trail runners back on, and then putting the socks back on within afew hundred meters after leaving the stream. If thin or light wool socks, you might go right through and keep hiking and be dry within a mile or so. All trail runners are different.

It is not so much how fast they dry, but how little water they can hold, and how well they drain. Look at the Adidas Adizeros to get an idea of something that holds little to zero water, and has drain holes on the bottom. This is not a suitable trail runner for most people, but look for similar qualities in a trail runner that offers a little more cushion and protection.

JAK
09-15-2010, 09:35
Particularly hard finding suitable running shoes and trail runners in children's sizes. It is a crime the way they make running shoes for children. They are like platform shoes in the smallest sizes, and heavy. My daughter runs cross-country and track and the only company that makes a light and flat enough running shoe for kids is NIKE, and their Janastar is very hard to find, not available in most stores. Definitely worth checking out though. If in a childrens size, you want the spikeless kind for sure, even for track.

Nike Jana Star Waffle III Women's Cross-Country Racing Shoe
http://reviews.nike.com/9191/323218/reviews.htm

For a child that weighs under 65 pounds, like my daughter, these are awesome running shoes, and play shoes, and shoes for wearing every day, even soccer shoes if they are playing at a young enough and small enough level. As I tell my daughter, kids in particular should ALWAYS be prepared to run and play. Running shoes are not just for organized running events. Running shoes for kids are ESSENTIAL equipment, 100% of the time, except when barefeet will do just as well.

For hiking, these might work, or might not. For my daughter, they work very well, better than anything else she can get because she is still in the children's sizes. She is a size 1 or 2 or something crazy. In this shoe she is a 3 or something though. They fit small. That is the problem also, you can't find them in stores, so you have to order them, but they are so hard to fit until you already have a pair. They are relatively inexpensive, and my daughter has got a TON of wear out of them.

weary
09-15-2010, 10:19
Most schools truancy rules are based on the federal funding they get for each kid.. So usually no matter what the reason is, if a kid misses more than X amount of days, the school doesn't get funded for that kid. I took my daughter out of Kindergarten to spend 3 weeks in Europe and it was a huge battle. I understand the schools side, they need the funding for the kids. On the parents side, you practically have to pull the kid out entirely, 'homeschool' them, and then you can always re enroll them later of you want them to take an extended break. Just tell them that 'homeschooling' wasn't for you. The rules vary from state to state, but my personal experience has been that if you do homeschool for a while (years even) they will gladly accept your child back whenever you are ready to re enroll them. You can find out what your child will be missing during those months and make sure they have at least the general concepts down so they don't find themselves left behind when they re enter later.
You might just tell the school you are moving, which is true, you'll be sampling the best of 14 states. But it's better to just be honest, and tell them you need to go on a walk for six months. The school may think you are insane, but they probably won't try to commit.

Weary

JAK
09-15-2010, 10:32
Another way to get some buy in from the school and school board might be for your daughter to work stuff about trails and hiking into whatever projects she is doing this year in school. Science projects, history projects, geography projects, book reports, whatever, and of course to keep her grades up. :)

Everyone does not have to be happy about it. You only need to get one teacher or principle on your side. Shouldn't be that hard.

I know one family here that homeschools their daughter. They did it for religious reasons. Not my cup of tea, but I can understand it sometimes when I see so much of the stuff my daughter and other kids are exposed to these days, and we are pretty much in the booneys, or as close as you can get to it in this day and age.

Instead of homeschooling I focus on pushing my own strengths and values, to suppliment what she is getting from her school. So from me she gets alot of Math, and exposure to nature and running and hiking and skiing and stuff. From her friends at school she stays reasonably normal, whatever that is.

Driver8
09-15-2010, 14:02
H/s:

One thing is not clear. Are you already homeschooling your daughter? Have been for years, for a while? Or are you proposing to take her out from the school system?

If the latter, you should talk with the school authorities and see what you need to do. If the former, i.e., if you're already home schooling, I'd think it would be less difficult, that she'd just have to sit for the right exams at the right time, but then I don't know much about home schooling. ...

sbhikes
09-15-2010, 14:57
sbhikes - wow, that's a pretty profound way to describe hitchhiking! don't believe i've ever heard it described as spritually uplifting!!! i guess i'm asking more because i have the little one. me hitchhiking alone is different to me than me and my child hitching together. does that make any sense? it's just different with a kid. so, there's not always public transportation available? i promise, if i break down and hitch, you'll be the first one i tell! but for now, i'm not liking the idea. might be like what peakbagger said though - perhaps by the time i hit the smokies, i won't think twice!

If it makes you feel any better, once my mom learned she lived near the PCT she just HAD to go out there and pick people up to bring them to town. She just couldn't abide by people having to get a ride from that "dangerous" road. Now she leaves her phone number on the trail and coolers of goodies and she cooks for the hikers (and not crappy taco salad, either, we're talking salmon and avocados and slaving over the stove all day) and lets them stay at her house.

The trail is FULL of these people. There's another guy up in Oregon who's about 100 years old and drives half the state giving rides because hitchhiking is illegal and he won't abide by PCT hikers doing it. He gives you a geology lesson as you ride in his car. Any gas money you give him he donates to the PCTA. The AT will be the same way. Full of happy helpful people.

Lilred
09-15-2010, 17:42
JAK - would you alter your daughter's sleeping bag permanently to save weight? i'd hate to do that to a down bag because i'm sure she'll be taller than me in another few years (i'm 5'7", so not extremely tall)...and they don't come cheap..


The condition of a bag after a thru hike is not the best. It may be a mute point as to cutting it down or not.

Lilred
09-15-2010, 17:49
If I were hiking with an 11-year-old, I wouldn't start until April 1. This eases slightly the months of school lost, and partially solves the weight problem, since the later one starts the warmer the temperatures are likely to be.

Plus early spring is just a more enjoyable time to be in the woods, compared with late winter.

I would still have 6 and a half months before Katahdin closes.

Weary

I gotta agree with Weary. You're more likely to avoid really bad weather at the start, and it's a much prettier hike the further into spring you start.


As a teacher, I think it's a great learning experience. If I had been into hiking when my kids were young, I'd have jumped at the chance. What she learns on the trail will serve her better than the same amount of time in a classroom by a longshot.

I would get together with her teachers for the upcoming school year and see what lessons she needs to learn, especially in math. You'll need to make arrangements with her present teachers, if you haven't already, to finish up the school year's testing.

Wishing you the best!!!

Feral Bill
09-15-2010, 19:57
One more suggestion on the school front: Find out your states laws and policies before talking to your local school authorities. You'll be better able to deal with any problems. Googling "home schooling laws your state") should help.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 20:12
Most schools truancy rules are based on the federal funding they get for each kid.. So usually no matter what the reason is, if a kid misses more than X amount of days, the school doesn't get funded for that kid. I took my daughter out of Kindergarten to spend 3 weeks in Europe and it was a huge battle. I understand the schools side, they need the funding for the kids. On the parents side, you practically have to pull the kid out entirely, 'homeschool' them, and then you can always re enroll them later of you want them to take an extended break. Just tell them that 'homeschooling' wasn't for you. The rules vary from state to state, but my personal experience has been that if you do homeschool for a while (years even) they will gladly accept your child back whenever you are ready to re enroll them. You can find out what your child will be missing during those months and make sure they have at least the general concepts down so they don't find themselves left behind when they re enter later.

the great thing about when the hike starts is...we're in the south now. down here, school pretty much slows down and starts wrapping up for the year the beginning of may because it ends the 1st week of June, so i may just have 1 1/2 months to keep up on for the end of her school year, and maybe 2 months at the beginning of the next school year. the rest of the time falls over summer. i didn't know about the federal funding, but it totally makes sense. good to know, thank you!

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 20:14
if you can resupply for only 28 dollars kudos to you.

resupply costs gave me a heart attack last night. lil bit more than i expected... and not so much SUPPLY costs - moreso, the cost of postage to get it to us, especially if you're mailing 2x/week. ouch

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 20:23
Trail runners dry quick enough in some conditions, but not in others when you really need them to, but still better than most hiking shoes/boots. .

i concur. i use trail runners the most i can because boots just get to suffocating for me. i do like boots in snow, so i'll stick with that. and my daughter is in small women's size shoes, which makes it an easier find. and then, switch to trail runners for both of us when we're through most of the snow. i just want to make sure her feet are comfy the best i can prepare for since my two BIGGEST gripes about hiking are

1) when my feet have died and gone to heaven because they hate my boots
2) chaffing (i have no idea how men wear kilts to improve chaffing, but that's another blog!)

mind you, i know i can't make the trip sunshine and lollipops for her, but bad feet just doesn't feel good. i think she might actually hike better than me with hurting feet though. i don't believe i'm giving her enough credit...

JAK
09-15-2010, 20:42
resupply costs gave me a heart attack last night. lil bit more than i expected... and not so much SUPPLY costs - moreso, the cost of postage to get it to us, especially if you're mailing 2x/week. ouch
I think the best way for you to work out costs, as well as try out gear, and clothing, and speed, and social science, would be to do some hiking this fall.

In addition to weekends, it would be worthwhile taking a week off work/school this fall, perhaps even two. You could test late spring early fall conditions around now, and early spring late fall conditions, or at least temperatures, later in the fall and perhaps into mild winter for a little snow.

I don't think it has to cost as much as many people think, but nobody knows how much costs they can avoid until they do at least a week or two away from home. It's been over 25 years since I've lived on the road that way, so I can't say. Grocery food should not be a major cost though. Restaraunts and a motel once a week. That would add up. You will spend less on beer than most though.

JAK
09-15-2010, 20:45
If you are near New Jersey, than you might be handy to parts of the trail for weekends. You could do a week somewhere like the Catskills, to test out gear and clothes and food and logistics, and your daughter could do one heck of a book report on "My Side of The Mountain."

Corporal Manstench
09-15-2010, 20:47
It can be done. I finished a thru this year and met the barbarian utopia, tecalote and venado. If you could contact these guys, i bet u could get all the info you need...
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/143153.html


I study exercise science, and i believe if you have your 11 year old carrying under 15lbs the whole time, this is an obtainable goal. But plan to take atleast a day every week off if not more. Days should never be over 12 hrs hiking as rest for the development of strong muscles and bones is paramount.
Start slow, and maybe consider a leap frog like the barbarians. You can still have the epic finish at the big K.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 20:50
H/s:

One thing is not clear. Are you already homeschooling your daughter? Have been for years, for a while? Or are you proposing to take her out from the school system?

i am NOT saying this to offend anyone (if you've homeschooled), but i'm actually not an advocate of homeschooling. a child can learn a lot about how to deal with life by working through issues at school that i can't teach her at home. mommy's not always going to be there to protect her (although, i'd love to be). so, no, i don't homeschool...and wouldn't if given the chance. i'm only doing it for the trip to ensure my daughter doesn't get left back a grade, or penalized in some way with her annual required tests. she's worked very hard to get in her advanced classes, and i can't let the trip jeopardize that. so, if i HAVE TO, i'll homeschool on the trail. otherwise, i believe everything about the trail would be plenty enough (if not WAY more) to keep her up on learning new things.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 20:51
But it's better to just be honest, and tell them you need to go on a walk for six months.

Weary

HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! i read this at work and fell out laughing.

JAK
09-15-2010, 20:53
Great story.

I like that newspaper. Maine is right next door, but the newspaper is quite a bit different than ours. It has a much better down home feel to it. Ours is, well, its a company paper in a company town. Its OK. At least it isn't foriegn owned.

JAK
09-15-2010, 20:57
i am NOT saying this to offend anyone (if you've homeschooled), but i'm actually not an advocate of homeschooling. a child can learn a lot about how to deal with life by working through issues at school that i can't teach her at home. mommy's not always going to be there to protect her (although, i'd love to be). so, no, i don't homeschool...and wouldn't if given the chance. i'm only doing it for the trip to ensure my daughter doesn't get left back a grade, or penalized in some way with her annual required tests. she's worked very hard to get in her advanced classes, and i can't let the trip jeopardize that. so, if i HAVE TO, i'll homeschool on the trail. otherwise, i believe everything about the trail would be plenty enough (if not WAY more) to keep her up on learning new things.I'm of the same mind. If I was to homeschool, it would be while off travelling the world, or sailing on a boat, or hiking the AT. I am big on tutoring her in Math though, with a totally different curriculum, because ours sucks. She gets A in math, but it means absolutely nothing because it isn't math. It isn't even arithmatic. It's more like, math appreciation, or something like that.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 20:58
If it makes you feel any better, once my mom learned she lived near the PCT she just HAD to go out there and pick people up to bring them to town. She just couldn't abide by people having to get a ride from that "dangerous" road. Now she leaves her phone number on the trail and coolers of goodies and she cooks for the hikers (and not crappy taco salad, either, we're talking salmon and avocados and slaving over the stove all day) and lets them stay at her house.

The trail is FULL of these people. There's another guy up in Oregon who's about 100 years old and drives half the state giving rides because hitchhiking is illegal and he won't abide by PCT hikers doing it. He gives you a geology lesson as you ride in his car. Any gas money you give him he donates to the PCTA. The AT will be the same way. Full of happy helpful people.

that is very awesome of your moms! i can tell by my concerns versus all the long distance hikers on the forum that i'm panicking about stuff that is nothing to all you guys. i can see myself loosening up when on the trail (like with hitchhiking or sleeping in a shelter). it's just so hard for me to be sitting on my couch, writing down what i need to do for the trip, and put myself in a thru hikers mentality. i know life will change, my trust for others will change, my conversations with people will change, and my stress that i feel after coming home from work all day will change once on the trail. unfortunately, the planning stages don't allow me the mind-freedom to get over my fears (yet) while sitting on the couch typing this comment, ya know? i hope we can just walk and walk and walk like so many of you have, and....well, loosen up. i'm so excited about the trail that i can't take it. but a lot of the unknowns still make me nervous. give me time :D

JAK
09-15-2010, 21:10
So are you planning on doing some hiking with your daughter this fall?
I am going to try and give my daughter a stir, once I get my thesis done.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 21:10
I would get together with her teachers for the upcoming school year and see what lessons she needs to learn, especially in math. You'll need to make arrangements with her present teachers, if you haven't already, to finish up the school year's testing.

Wishing you the best!!!

the thing that's slowing me down with this is that i'm selling my house, so i don't know what district we'll be moving to yet. so, it's like...where do i call? i have poked around to get some info here and there, but i haven't jumped into the specifics because her school will have a direct say in this. i think for the heck of it, i'm going to call the middle school where i'm living and just ask their take. i don't see the different schools in the same district being drastically different. perhaps, the principal in one school might be more of a pain to convince about our trip, but the district rules would have to be pretty much across the board (i hope). if anyone cares to know what they say, let me know!

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 21:15
I think the best way for you to work out costs, as well as try out gear, and clothing, and speed, and social science, would be to do some hiking this fall.



we go backpacking 2 times a month in the blue ridge mountains. we're totally in love with the gear and setup we have now. problem is...when you figure in long distance backpacking, it's kind of a whole different animal. it's kind of separating to me the way hiking and backpacking did when i first started backpacking. i always thought, i hike all the time with my dogs, so backpacking will be a snap. um, not necessarily. now, backpacking versus thru hiking is separating to me because there's so much more that goes into a thru. but i must say....i love the planning :D

just dad
09-15-2010, 21:21
Don't let anyone tell you a thru hike is too much for a kid. I started hiking with my children when my son was 7 and my daughter was 9. This past summer (ages 10 and 12) we hiked just short of 300 miles, which was only limited by the time I could get away. We have hiked over 700 miles of the AT in the last 4 years. My son would thru hike given the opportunity. My daughter feels that 3 weeks at a time is enough. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on shoes. My kids find that trail runners are too light. My kids have carried trekking poles since our first hike. We generally tent, but that clearly adds time to setting up camp and breaking down in the morning. My kids have generally carried their own gear, but I have generally carried all the food. And I have frequently shifted weight between packs depending on which kid was dragging at any point. My daughter can out hike me as long as her pack is reasonably light. My son (the youngest) is the slowest hiker. Next year I plan on shifting more food weight to my kids. Notwithstanding all the advice you receive, you will simply need some time on the trail to figure out how to hike your own hike. Good luck and have a great journey.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 21:25
It can be done. I finished a thru this year and met the barbarian utopia, tecalote and venado. If you could contact these guys, i bet u could get all the info you need...
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/143153.html


I study exercise science, and i believe if you have your 11 year old carrying under 15lbs the whole time, this is an obtainable goal. But plan to take atleast a day every week off if not more. Days should never be over 12 hrs hiking as rest for the development of strong muscles and bones is paramount.
Start slow, and maybe consider a leap frog like the barbarians. You can still have the epic finish at the big K.

i most definitely will contact them. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

oh sweet - yeah, i'd definitely love to hear your take. i believe my daughter's pack is somewhere slightly above 15 pounds. she carries her own survival kit, sleeping bag, water/snacks, warm clothes, and a few other misc things. i'll work harder at getting it at 15. not only shouldn't my daughter go over 12 hours a day....i doubt mommy will WANT to :eek: in all seriousness though, i've planned on no more than 10 hours if we're trekking through. if we're stopping a good bit for picking flowers, playing in the stream, petting horses, or whatever, i'll go up to 12. great to know!

do you have any suggestions for vitamins? i'm guessing calcium and iron would be big concerns, no? her doc said to make CERTAIN she takes vitamins, but i don't know what kind. i can research, but was wondering if you had something in mind.

JAK
09-15-2010, 21:25
I can't really think of a better time to thru-hike, if you are able, than if you are a grownup with willing young children to bring along. Perhaps the only better time than that would be if you were a young child, with willing and able parents, or parent.

JAK
09-15-2010, 21:25
...or grandparents.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 21:43
Don't let anyone tell you a thru hike is too much for a kid. I started hiking with my children when my son was 7 and my daughter was 9. This past summer (ages 10 and 12) we hiked just short of 300 miles, which was only limited by the time I could get away. We have hiked over 700 miles of the AT in the last 4 years. My son would thru hike given the opportunity. My daughter feels that 3 weeks at a time is enough. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on shoes. My kids find that trail runners are too light. My kids have carried trekking poles since our first hike. We generally tent, but that clearly adds time to setting up camp and breaking down in the morning. My kids have generally carried their own gear, but I have generally carried all the food. And I have frequently shifted weight between packs depending on which kid was dragging at any point. My daughter can out hike me as long as her pack is reasonably light. My son (the youngest) is the slowest hiker. Next year I plan on shifting more food weight to my kids. Notwithstanding all the advice you receive, you will simply need some time on the trail to figure out how to hike your own hike. Good luck and have a great journey.

your words mean a lot to me. i get a lot of people (VERY few on this site - thank you, guys!!!!!) that laugh or look at me like i'm some kind of freak for doing this. while i try to understand that not everyone backpacks, or has experienced the love for the trail, it really gets me when i'm laughed at by my mother or co-workers or friends that predict failure before i even start. thank you for the story of success you've had with your little one's (even younger than mine), and support :sun

i also carry all the food - my daughter carries snacks in case she ever gets separated from me. i'm hoping that after she gets her little legs built for the trail (i'm guessing maybe around 1 month into the trip?), i can share the load with her a bit. perhaps, the enjoyment of getting our maildrops and re-supplying will excite her enough to want to share the pain i'm enduring!

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 21:45
perhaps, the enjoyment of getting our maildrops and re-supplying will excite her enough to want to share the pain i'm enduring!

and if not, i'm making her move out when we get home :D

JAK
09-15-2010, 21:53
Oh but we are all laughing at you, but we're all freaks. :)

So far I'm just a freak wannabee like you though. ;)

JAK
09-15-2010, 22:10
i'm hoping that after she gets her little legs built for the trail (i'm guessing maybe around 1 month into the trip?), i can share the load with her a bit. perhaps, the enjoyment of getting our maildrops and re-supplying will excite her enough to want to share the pain i'm enduring!I think children at that age in particular are natural endurance atheletes already, even children that are not very active. Their legs are ready built for the trail from the get-go. I see young kids that show up for our run-jump-throw program in out track club, and friends on my daughters that we've taken on hikes. Not all are fast. Not all are co-ordinated, boys that have been indoors way to much especially so. They all have natural stamina and endurance though. They tend to run in sprints and stops until you train them to pace themselves, or just let them keep sprinting and stopping which might bre more natural and better for development. Who knows. But they can all walk, and for mile and miles, if they are motivated. I've seen it.

Carrying a burden though, that is a different story.
Being motivated, that is the other.

Whether or not she will be able to carry more, or should, after weeks even months, I am really not sure. Kids are different. They might just develop more or less the way they would if they were just normally active. In other words, if she grows some while hiking, as she would anyway, she might be able to carry more. If she doesn't grow any more, she may not be able to carry any more than she did in the beginning. It would be hard to say, because it is really not something you want to push. While they are developing, especially if they happen to be going through a growth spurt, you really do not want them to carry as much as they can. She probably will adapt to hiking more hours per day though, and very quickly. You will no doubt have trouble keeping up, especially on hills. I know I do. You will soon welcome when she wants to stop and doddle. I started carrying a hiking staff just to have something to lean on when I stopped to watch when she stops to play. On my own I don't carry one. Also helps if you pack you pack in such a way that you can quickly take it off and sit on it, or simply lean back on it if there is a slope. Small little stops for you, for rest. Small little stops for her, for play, and learning along the way.

daylaandjasper
09-15-2010, 22:16
I heartily support getting ahold of Chili and Pepper with questions.I met them this year.

JAK
09-15-2010, 22:30
My proudest moment on the trail was when my daughter made a set of table and chairs out of beach stones as I was getting the Kelly Kettle going for a supper. It wasn't something I had taught her. It was straight out of Skara Brae. Nature is the best tutor. It was in there somewhere already. In her blood. In her soul. It is something in all of us, yearning to be free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy4aKZfGOXk

JAK
09-15-2010, 22:34
Deus ibi est
(God is there)

Against my will to these sad shores
An unknown force has drawn me
Bound unto a future shaped by ancestors before me
Day on day I march the beat to someone else's drum
I have searched far foreign lands
There's nowhere left to run

Impending storm rise up rise up
Oh demons, I shall shame you
Look down the barrel of my gun
And one by one, I'll name you
Day on day my brothers leave
Go marching off to war
Yet we never understand for what we're fighting for

Ubi caritas et amor
Ubi caritas
Deus ibi est

Worldly desires and worldly gains
Designed for worldly men
I'm a master of the heart
With ears and hands to lend, oh
Soldiers come and soldiers go
Some changed by love for thee
A circle in the chain of life all fighting to be free

Ubi caritas et amor
Ubi caritas
Deus ibi est

So come my lord and we shall dance
To God's own private drum, oh
Sweet Jesus and the holy vine
The afterlife to come
Day on day I march the the beat
To someone else's drum
I have searched far foreign lands
There's nowhere left to run

Ubi caritas et amor
Ubi caritas
Deus ibi est

- Isobel Campbell

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 22:40
Oh but we are all laughing at you, but we're all freaks. :)

i think that's why i like you guys so much

[/QUOTE]So far I'm just a freak wannabee like you though. ;)[/QUOTE]

i'm so proud to finally be a wannabe!

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 22:41
I heartily support getting ahold of Chili and Pepper with questions.I met them this year.

i have their email address and plan on saying hello!

JAK
09-15-2010, 22:44
Music and Lyrics a little more on this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSlWLoCNtbY

Interesting where these threads can take you.

Ubi caritas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubi_caritas

Ubi caritas is a hymn of the Western Church, long used as one of the antiphons for the washing of feet on Maundy Thursday. The Gregorian melody was composed sometime between the fourth and tenth centuries, though some scholars believe the text dates from early Christian gatherings before the formalization of the Mass. It is usually sung at Eucharistic Adoration and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament and on Holy Thursday evening at the Mass of the Lord's Supper. The current Roman Catholic Missal (1970) reassigned it from the foot-washing mandatum to the offertory for the Holy (Maundy) Thursday mass, and it also is found in current Anglican and Lutheran hymnals.

The 1973 Roman Missal changed the first line of the hymn's stanzas. Now, the first line of each stanza reads "Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est," after certain very early manuscripts. This translates to: "Where charity is true, God himself is there."

The well-known Taizé chant by Jacques Berthier (1978) uses only the words of the refrain, with verses taken from I Corinthians 13:2-8. Maurice Duruflé's choral setting makes use of the Gregorian melody, using only the words of the refrain and the first stanza.

------------------------------------------------------------
Latin Text

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
Congregavit nos in unum Christi amor.
Exultemus, et in ipso jucundemur.
Timeamus, et amemus Deum vivum.
Et ex corde diligamus nos sincero.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
Simul ergo cum in unum congregamur:
Ne nos mente dividamur, caveamus.
Cessent iurgia maligna, cessent lites.
Et in medio nostri sit Christus Deus.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
Simul quoque cum beatis videamus,
Glorianter vultum tuum, Christe Deus:
Gaudium quod est immensum, atque probum,
Saecula per infinita saeculorum. Amen.

------------------------------------------------------------
English Translation

Where charity and love are, God is there.
Christ's love has gathered us into one.
Let us rejoice and be pleased in Him.
Let us fear, and let us love the living God.
And may we love each other with a sincere heart.
Where charity and love are, God is there.
As we are gathered into one body,
Beware, lest we be divided in mind.
Let evil impulses stop, let controversy cease,
And may Christ our God be in our midst.
Where charity and love are, God is there.
And may we with the saints also,
See Thy face in glory, O Christ our God:
The joy that is immense and good,
Unto the ages through infinite ages. Amen.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 22:47
Deus ibi est
(God is there)

Against my will to these sad shores
An unknown force has drawn me
Bound unto a future shaped by ancestors before me
Day on day I march the beat to someone else's drum
I have searched far foreign lands
There's nowhere left to run

Impending storm rise up rise up
Oh demons, I shall shame you
Look down the barrel of my gun
And one by one, I'll name you
Day on day my brothers leave
Go marching off to war
Yet we never understand for what we're fighting for

Ubi caritas et amor
Ubi caritas
Deus ibi est

Worldly desires and worldly gains
Designed for worldly men
I'm a master of the heart
With ears and hands to lend, oh
Soldiers come and soldiers go
Some changed by love for thee
A circle in the chain of life all fighting to be free

Ubi caritas et amor
Ubi caritas
Deus ibi est

So come my lord and we shall dance
To God's own private drum, oh
Sweet Jesus and the holy vine
The afterlife to come
Day on day I march the the beat
To someone else's drum
I have searched far foreign lands
There's nowhere left to run

Ubi caritas et amor
Ubi caritas
Deus ibi est

- Isobel Campbell

i would just like to point out that i've never ever been on a forum before in my life. i found this site by accident when i was doing some online research for the thru hike. also, i have never in my life had such a time trying to figure out everyone's personality via thread. but i think i just figured out JAK. perhaps the best i can describe you is "random". you come out with the oddest things when i least expect it (on several threads i've read) and it just cracks me up. on someone's thread, tom sawyer just popped up out of nowhere. and now, i'm reading....french? hahahaaa

weary
09-15-2010, 22:51
I think children at that age in particular are natural endurance atheletes already, even children that are not very active. Their legs are ready built for the trail from the get-go. I see young kids that show up for our run-jump-throw program in out track club, and friends on my daughters that we've taken on hikes. Not all are fast. Not all are co-ordinated, boys that have been indoors way to much especially so. They all have natural stamina and endurance though. They tend to run in sprints and stops until you train them to pace themselves, or just let them keep sprinting and stopping which might bre more natural and better for development. Who knows. But they can all walk, and for mile and miles, if they are motivated. I've seen it.

Carrying a burden though, that is a different story.
Being motivated, that is the other.

Whether or not she will be able to carry more, or should, after weeks even months, I am really not sure. Kids are different. They might just develop more or less the way they would if they were just normally active. In other words, if she grows some while hiking, as she would anyway, she might be able to carry more. If she doesn't grow any more, she may not be able to carry any more than she did in the beginning. It would be hard to say, because it is really not something you want to push. While they are developing, especially if they happen to be going through a growth spurt, you really do not want them to carry as much as they can. She probably will adapt to hiking more hours per day though, and very quickly. You will no doubt have trouble keeping up, especially on hills. I know I do. You will soon welcome when she wants to stop and doddle. I started carrying a hiking staff just to have something to lean on when I stopped to watch when she stops to play. On my own I don't carry one. Also helps if you pack you pack in such a way that you can quickly take it off and sit on it, or simply lean back on it if there is a slope. Small little stops for you, for rest. Small little stops for her, for play, and learning along the way.
When I hiked most of Maine with a then 9-year-old grandson in 1991, I had to keep adding to his pack so I could keep up with him. The same was true two years later when he did 600 miles of the AT with me.

I never weighed his pack on either trip. But initially he carried his clothing and sleeping bag. Eventually he carried his share of the food and some of the community gear. I'm guessing his peak loads were at least 20 pounds, perhaps more.

He wasn't always a happy camper. Kids who grow up as a single child tend not to be when things get uncomfortable. But he remembers both trips fondly.

He lead the walk the whole way. At times I wouldn't see him for hours. As I began to panic, I often would find him sleeping alongside the trail, waiting for me to show up.

Weary

JAK
09-15-2010, 22:56
You and your daughter might like this one, by the same artist, same album.
Some of the lyrics are really about parent/child, but its still a lovely song.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TetE4uHMkk

(Do You Wanna) Come Walk With Me?


Little girl have I told you
how you light up my life
come and lay down beside me
come and thrill me tonight
do you wanna?

I'm not saying I love you
I won't say I'll be true
there's a crimson bird flying
when I go down on you

I'm so weary and lonesome
and it's cold in the night
when the path to your doorway
is a pathway of light

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
if you do baby say it now
though we'll both wonder anyhow

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna?

little girl have I told you
you're my guiding north star
and my love travels with you
wherever you are

from the mountains to the valley
leave the light on for me
from Virginia to Alaska
from sea to shining sea

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
if you do baby say it now
though we'll both wonder anyhow

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna?

Driver8
09-15-2010, 22:57
so, no, i don't homeschool...and wouldn't if given the chance.

OK. I tend to be a believer in the public schools, flawed though they be. Just wasn't clear from an early post of yours whether you home schooled or not - I got the mistaken impression that you did. Sorry about that! :)

If school attendance issues slow you down and home-schooling becomes too much of a red tape hassle (hope not), you could also do a couple of things:

1) Break up your thru-hike into bits:
a) hike parts of the trail during spring break next spring, maybe make spr break two weeks long in lieu of the normal 1 week (maybe you could do Roanoke to I-66 or even further),
b) take off from school at the end of the year as early as you can such that the year will count for your daughter and the school system,
c) start as late the 2011-2012 school year as you can to make *that* year count, leaving a week's margin of error (or more, per comfort level) for illness the next year,
d) finish off that part of the trail south of you, or, say, southward from I-40 in the Smokies, last.

NOTE: I understand this might be too complicated, could be cost-prohibitive, just food for thought.

2) Do the trail over two summers, not one. All the way to New Jersey relatives, year 1 (halfway point as to effort, approximately), NJ to Katahdin year 2. Nice thing about this option is you'll be avoiding most all hypothermia issues (except in Northern New England, where they always loom), and greatly mitigating any issues about your daughter's physical health, growth and development. Again, food for thought. Your trail mileage may vary. :)

JAK
09-15-2010, 22:57
i would just like to point out that i've never ever been on a forum before in my life. i found this site by accident when i was doing some online research for the thru hike. also, i have never in my life had such a time trying to figure out everyone's personality via thread. but i think i just figured out JAK. perhaps the best i can describe you is "random". you come out with the oddest things when i least expect it (on several threads i've read) and it just cracks me up. on someone's thread, tom sawyer just popped up out of nowhere. and now, i'm reading....french? hahahaaalol

latin actually, but it's all greek to me.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 23:00
Kids who grow up as a single child tend not to be when things get uncomfortable.

Weary

OMG! I could NOT agree more!

JAK
09-15-2010, 23:01
Whoopsa.
Obviously I meant to say the lyrics are NOT really about parent/child,
but still a rather nice song, and fitting, and I am a sucker for coincidences,
even when they don't fit perfectly.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 23:02
little girl have I told you
you're my guiding north star
and my love travels with you
wherever you are

from the mountains to the valley
leave the light on for me
from Virginia to Alaska
from sea to shining sea



totally awesome...

JAK
09-15-2010, 23:02
We will have to change some of those lyrics.

JAK
09-15-2010, 23:06
Little girl have I told you
how you light up my life
come and lay down beside me
in the chill of the night
do you wanna?

I'm not saying I love you
I won't say I'll be true
there's a darkened moon passing
when I look after you

I'm so weary and lonesome
and it's cold in the night
when the path to your doorway
is a pathway of light

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
if you do baby say it now
though we'll both wonder anyhow

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna?

little girl have I told you
you're my guiding north star
and my love travels with you
wherever you are

from the mountains to the valley
leave the light on for me
from Virginia to Alaska
from sea to shining sea

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
if you do baby say it now
though we'll both wonder anyhow

do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna come walk with me?
do you wanna?

JAK
09-15-2010, 23:10
Anyhow, this isn't getting my thesis written,
and it isn't getting either of our wee daughter's closer to Katahdin. ;)

have a good night, and best regards. it's been fun.

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 23:28
NOTE: I understand this might be too complicated, could be cost-prohibitive, just food for thought.

2) Do the trail over two summers, not one. All the way to New Jersey relatives, year 1 (halfway point as to effort, approximately), NJ to Katahdin year 2. Nice thing about this option is you'll be avoiding most all hypothermia issues (except in Northern New England, where they always loom), and greatly mitigating any issues about your daughter's physical health, growth and development. Again, food for thought. Your trail mileage may vary. :)

my job is getting moved to canada, so next year is my last year at my job (hence, the reason i plan to start our thru in 3/2012 - 3 months later). i would never get an escape from responsibility to do something like otherwise. i'm trying to pay off all my debts, sell my house (which i have to do anyway), and plan on living a dirtier life for 6 months before finding a new job to strap me to a desk for 9 hours a day for another 12 years ;)

honestly though - if things were different with my job (and i could keep working), i really, really like the idea of 2 summers. then again, the world is supposed to end in 2012, so i'm trying to hurry up and finish the trail so i can tell my dad i made it through the whole thing when i see him again!

hontassquirt
09-15-2010, 23:31
We will have to change some of those lyrics.

yeah, i noticed that. i felt like i was reading someone's personal blog (sorry, didn't mean to go there again)

JAK
09-16-2010, 00:28
my job is getting moved to canada, so next year is my last year at my job (hence, the reason i plan to start our thru in 3/2012 - 3 months later). i would never get an escape from responsibility to do something like otherwise. i'm trying to pay off all my debts, sell my house (which i have to do anyway), and plan on living a dirtier life for 6 months before finding a new job to strap me to a desk for 9 hours a day for another 12 years ;)
Totally understand. I've been blessed with similar misfortune myself, somewhat slef imposed though, doing a postgrad, but spending alot of time with my daughter in the process. A long hike with her would have been nice, but I've had my fun so soon it will be back to the grind forever. It will be my wife that will have a chance to do something like you are doing with our daughter while she is still young. My wife has certainly earned it, working full-time with me back in school like a child. All goes well it will be me working full-time forever soon enough, and perhaps her and my daughter off to europe for a year or some such thing. What do they miss in middle school that they can't learn better in Paris or Geneva or Vienna or Athens? The dream, that's the thing.

From Stone to Steel
E.J. Pratt

From stone to bronze, from bronze to steel
Along the road-dust of the sun,
Two revolutions of the wheel
From Java to Geneva run.

The snarl Neanderthal is worn
Close to the smiling Aryan lips,
The civil polish of the horn
Gleams from our praying finger tips.

The evolution of desire
Has but matured a toxic wine,
Drunk long before its heady fire
Reddened Euphrates or the Rhine.

Between the temple and the cave
The boundary lies tissue thin:
The yearlings still the altars crave
As satisfaction for a sin.

The road goes up, the road goes down —
Let Java or Geneva be —
But whether to the cross or crown,
The path lies through Gethsemane.

JAK
09-16-2010, 00:49
I'll leave you with two more...

Ebudæ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnlnobPoRI0

(in Irish Gaelic)
Amharc, mná ag obair lá 's mall san oích',
Ceolann siad ar laetha geal, a bhí,
Bealach fada anonn 's anall a chóich'.

(in English)
Look, women working by day and late at night,
They sing of bright days that were,
A long way back and forth forever.

The Hebrides, or Western Isles, of Scotland were known as the Hebudæ or the Ebudæ in ancient times. The name is of Latin origin, appearing on ancient maps of Roman Britain.
This song is loosely based on the traditional "waulking songs" sung by women and used when fulling cloth. Waulking songs are unique to the Outer Hebrides.


Book of Days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPa9r9gkBAE

(in Irish Gaelic)
Ó lá go lá, mo thuras,
An bealach fada romham.
Ó oíche go hoíche, mo thuras,
na scéalta nach mbeidh a choích'.

(in English)
From day to day, my journey,
The long pilgrimage before me.
From night to night, my journey,
The stories that will never be again.

Pony
09-16-2010, 16:49
Read Zero Days about a family with a 10 year old girl who thru-hiked the PCT. The kid was very determined. It was very educational for her. She finished the trail in the snow in October.

Pretty sure I camped with that family in Maryland. Either way, it was a family that thru hiked the PCT with their daughter who was ten at the time. They were great folks and the kid, who I think is somewhere around 16 now, seemed mature and very well adjusted. One thing that stuck out in my mind was that they went into Boonsboro around 9:30 at night to eat at a restaraunt. When I talked to the Dad, he said that anytime they can they let the kid decide things like that. Seems like they involved the kid in decision making and took her into consideration before themselves.

hontassquirt
09-16-2010, 20:09
One thing that stuck out in my mind was that they went into Boonsboro around 9:30 at night to eat at a restaraunt. When I talked to the Dad, he said that anytime they can they let the kid decide things like that. Seems like they involved the kid in decision making and took her into consideration before themselves.

there's no better way to make a child happy than to make her part of the family. good for them! the little things like this mean so much to a child. especially one walking for 2,000 miles because "her parent's wanted to" :sun

Driver8
09-17-2010, 13:25
honestly though - if things were different with my job (and i could keep working), i really, really like the idea of 2 summers. then again, the world is supposed to end in 2012, so i'm trying to hurry up and finish the trail so i can tell my dad i made it through the whole thing when i see him again!

Chuckle. You could be the first to through-hike the AT carrying a sign that says "The End Is Near." :)

As to freak/outlier tag: on my proudest day of hiking yet, I passed across the grounds of the fancy Berkshire prep school at the foot of Mt. Everett. Crossed paths with a nice septugenarian lady who was there for a classical music concert. She was dressed and coiffed very much in a conservative, pleasant, suburban style, and I looked somewhat like Bill Murray from Caddyshack, except chubbier, with glasses and a backpack.

She asked if I was there for the concert and, chest swelling with pride, I shared that I'd just climbed Mt. Everett, confident that she'd appreciate and admire the accomplishment. Instead, her reply - "Where's that?" - floored me.

Recovering quickly, I pointed to the big mountain looming to our southwest and explained. She couldn't conceive of it and said, dismissively, "Oh, so you just walk around out here?" lol. She wasn't some mean nasty person - she just could not in any wise see the point.

Vive le difference!

Driver8
09-17-2010, 13:31
my job is getting moved to canada, so next year is my last year at my job (hence, the reason i plan to start our thru in 3/2012 - 3 months later).

Hmm. In terms of school red tape then, I'd say taking daughter out of school for the spring 2012 semester is probably simplest way to go - home school her for the semester. That will remove the issues of how much time you can take her out of school, etc. You can then start whenever you're ready and weather permits. You might still try a bit of flip-flopping. Start, say, at Harper's Ferry, work south to Roanoke, then make way to Springer northward to Roanoke, ride to HF, hiking to points north. Nice thing about that, too, is Shenandoah region is relatively forgiving. Probably a nice way to ensure you both get your thru-hiking legs underneath you. Food for thought.

hontassquirt
09-18-2010, 16:45
ha! yes, you just started walking and didn't stop. too funny!!!

Driver8
09-19-2010, 00:24
ha! yes, you just started walking and didn't stop. too funny!!!

Exactly. When you stop - that's when the aches and pains set in. Better to just keep on going. :)

futureatwalker
09-19-2010, 15:57
Two thoughts (and apologies; I haven't read every post in this thread yet):

1) Have you read Walking North by Mic Lowther? He walks the AT with his wife and 10-year-old daughter. This is still one of my favourite AT accounts - you might find it particularly relevant.

2) If I was planning such a hike, I think seriously about starting in April. It can be really cold in March in the Georgia mountains. If the object of the trip is to have fun, start in April.

Best of luck!

sbhikes
09-22-2010, 13:51
Pretty sure I camped with that family in Maryland. Either way, it was a family that thru hiked the PCT with their daughter who was ten at the time. They were great folks and the kid, who I think is somewhere around 16 now, seemed mature and very well adjusted. One thing that stuck out in my mind was that they went into Boonsboro around 9:30 at night to eat at a restaraunt. When I talked to the Dad, he said that anytime they can they let the kid decide things like that. Seems like they involved the kid in decision making and took her into consideration before themselves.

There's a great part in the book where they discussed how they realized they should listen to Scrambler, that sometimes she had insights that her parents didn't have and often knew a better way to do something. It's a great point in the book. I think it shows a little of the "education" that happens on an adventure like this. Young people can gain knowledge and skills that they normally don't get credit for in ordinary life. They can make mature decisions if they are given the opportunity.

hontassquirt
09-22-2010, 19:46
Two thoughts (and apologies; I haven't read every post in this thread yet):

1) Have you read Walking North by Mic Lowther? He walks the AT with his wife and 10-year-old daughter. This is still one of my favourite AT accounts - you might find it particularly relevant.

2) If I was planning such a hike, I think seriously about starting in April. It can be really cold in March in the Georgia mountains. If the object of the trip is to have fun, start in April.

Best of luck!

no, i haven't read it. i'll add it to my list of must haves!

we actually live right next to GA and hike there during all seasons. i cannot underestimate the difference between a week long trip up there, and a month long trip. i can imagine the "pushing on" will be different. the GA mountains don't scare us....Maine boulders do though!!!

flemdawg1
09-24-2010, 14:11
Here's a good website that tells hat the specific requirements are for each state.
http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1

You'd be surprised how little time it takes each day to homeschool. Math can easily be handled via a workbook style curriculum. History, literature and science can all dovetail nicely if you are thoughtful in how you implement. (i.e. My 5th, 1st and preschool homeschooled kids will all tour a replica of Columbus's ships this weekend, find a book about the voyage (history, literature), some material on the physics of sailing (science) and some info about how the sailures were provisioned (home economics, math). You can do the same all along the trail and afew side trips.

I leave all the anti-homeschool remarks alone. Homeschooling fulfills the goals that I want my kids to have, if they ever asked to stop and return to public school I would honor their wishes.

Trailbender
09-24-2010, 16:28
Maine and NH would be pretty brutal for a kid.

weary
09-24-2010, 18:20
Maine and NH would be pretty brutal for a kid.
Thousands of kids of all ages hike the trails in Maine and New Hampshire every year. At least 95 percent of all the trails and all of the AT are hiked annually by reasonably active and fit 10-year-olds, and many much younger than that.

As is always wise with youngsters, Just don't plan on rushing.

Weary

Lightkeeper
09-25-2010, 09:23
As an educator I must stress, be honest, say you will be homeschooling. Believe it or not, most schools do not sweat withdrawing your child because of funding. Once you withdraw your child, there is no longer an issue regarding attendance. (actually some parents withdraw students to avoid attendance issues) Now is the time/age to go because she is too young to have to worry about credit, requred courses for graduation, etc. In most states, if you homeschool for least than 1 year, there are not too many problems. At best, they may require a re entry exam to determine if student is ready for placement in next grade. Doesn't sound like that would be a concern for your child however. This would be such an incredible experience for you and your child (providing she wants it and you're willing to stop if and when she no longer wants it) that I would not let any other consideration interfere. Best of luck, and remember there will probably be many teachers on the trail, the two of you might hook up with some of them now and then for "tutoring" Keep us all informed

CARY HART
09-02-2014, 20:41
Oh the Negative Nancy's. Don't listen to them. Through hiking with a kid is more then doable. I hiked with my wife and 9 year old. We had a great time. Were there hard times? Sure. Were there aggravating times? You bet. But more then anything we grew as individuals and as a family.
Sadly, we had to get off after 800 miles because of an issue at home. There's not a day that goes by that one of us doesn't bring up the trail.

That being said, our daughter hiked in trail runners. Like adults, make sure they have plenty of toe room. Blisters are no fun, but kids with are... Even less fun? Of coarse, get their pack as light as you can. Light pack=more smiles.
As for zeros, we took a good amount of zeros. We hit a lot of cold/snow in GA/NC. One thing we would do differently is to mix up who we hiked with more often. We made lots of amazing friends on our trip, but you're hiking as a family. We wished we would have hiked with a group for a couple days then switch it up and hike alone(just the family) for a couple days. It's very easy to talk/be talked it to and extra zero.
Also, maybe plan if you're going to zero before you get near town AND STICK TO YOUR PLAN lol.