View Full Version : Knorr Pasta Sides Question (FBC)
Hello! I'm a beginner at trail cooking, and have decided to stick with FBC. I'm not here to discuss that decision, but I'm looking for advice about the Knorr Pasta Sides, specific to FBC.
This is what I've done at home to test it out:
-Pour entire contents of pouch into freezer bag.
-Measure out water and bring to a boil (more on this below)
-Pour water into freezer bag
-Knead breifly
-Wrap in a combo of pot-holders and Kitchen towels (remember, I'm doing a home-trial)
-Wait 10, 20, or 30 minutes (tried several different times)
Regarding the water - I originally (foolishly) used the amount on the package. (2 cups in most cases).. The second time I cut the amount in half, and there was no extra liquid. It seems that I got the correct amount of water now, because the pasta was soft and the sauce was thickened.
The problem is that the noodles taste like uncooked dough.. even if I wait 30 minutes. I know it's staying hot, because it is almost impossible to handle even once 20 minutes pass.. but what am I doing wrong? Do most people have this taste and just deal with it?
If I can't get this to work, I'm going to switch to home-cooked dehydrated pasta, but I'd like to try a few more times!
How do you get a successful FBC with Knorr pasta sides?
Moose2001
09-18-2010, 10:22
Julie - Knorr sides, both pasta and rice, are not dehydrated dinners. They require full cooking time.
Thanks for your reply :) I understand that the pasta in Knorr is uncooked, but I have seen recipes and instructions on how to FBC them.. The water supposedly stays hot enough to "cook" the pasta.. :(
Like I said, if I can't get this trick to work, I'll def. switch over to dehydrating pre-cooked pasta.
I use about 1 1/8 cups water per Knorrs package (I often do doubles at once).
I know you said you're sticking with FBC, but I switched from FBC to in-pot cooking (boil water, add food to pot, put pot in cozy). I've found that everything cooks better in the pot than it did in the freezer bags. That may be because you lose heat when you pour the water into the bag, or by using the pot, you can cook the food for an extra minute after adding it. Anyway, the pot/cozy method works really well for me.
Tenderheart
09-18-2010, 10:58
Thanks for your reply :) I understand that the pasta in Knorr is uncooked, but I have seen recipes and instructions on how to FBC them.. The water supposedly stays hot enough to "cook" the pasta.. :(
Like I said, if I can't get this trick to work, I'll def. switch over to dehydrating pre-cooked pasta.
Julie, I did the same types of experiments prior to my hike in 2000. I used a pot to do the cooking. Like you, I used half the H2O but I put the Knorr packet in the water first thing, so that the mixture could be hydrating while the water heated to boiling. As soon as the water came to a rolling boil, I snuffed the flame and re-covered the pot. I would wait 25 minutes and the pasta was hot and ready. Be advised that this method will not work with most backpacking cook pots because they have either a vented lid or a pour spout built into the pot itself. This allows all of your heat, which does the cooking, to escape. I also found that rice worked better than pasta, although some pasta shapes cooked fine. You can also pour the boiling water directly into the Knorr packet and seal the folded down opening with a paper clip. This makes for easy clean up, but the noodles are sometimes crunchy, which is what you are trying to avoid. I think you'll find that putting the mixture in the water prying to heating will solve your problem. Good luck! You are smart to iron out these problems prior to your hike.
litefoot 2000
You'll come to love al dente pasta.............
My best advice is to follow the directions on the package. I look for the lowest simmer/cooking times to conserve fuel and cook time. I often fortify meals by adding packaged tuna or chicken and some extra vegetables to make a one pot meal.
Dennis
LaurieAnn
09-18-2010, 11:14
I've found that everything cooks better in the pot than it did in the freezer bags. That may be because you lose heat when you pour the water into the bag, or by using the pot, you can cook the food for an extra minute after adding it. Anyway, the pot/cozy method works really well for me.
I've found this too. I think that it is because you are heating the metal of the pot as well and it conducts and retains a bit of heat as opposed to pouring water into a cold freezer bag.
Be advised that this method will not work with most backpacking cook pots because they have either a vented lid or a pour spout built into the pot itself. This allows all of your heat, which does the cooking, to escape.
One way around this is a pot cozy. I bought mine up here in Canada at Mountain Equipment Coop and it fits a backpacking pot perfectly. It makes a big difference.
And there's nothing wrong with Al Dente... lol.
I have never been happy with FBC in regards the thickening process.
This last hike, I cooked in the pot with my alcohol stove. Some juggling was required to prevent boiling over, but no major problems.
The quality of the resultant food was much higher (IMHO)
Cleanup wasn't a biggie either. A bit of water and a scrubby I carry took care of things
4eyedbuzzard
09-18-2010, 13:11
The Knorrs require two cups of water plus (milk and butter are also on the ingredients list for many) and they aren't drained, so given perhaps a few ounces to evaporation when boiling, two full cups of water are needed to cook the pasta properly - you can't cheat it. I just make it in my camp pot and boil it like the directions say and it is good, cleanup is no biggy, use my mini-scraper to get most of it and a little water and a wipe. FBC doesn't work for everything.
You'll come to love al dente pasta.............
Haha, I don't know if I would consider cruncy, raw pasta "al dente"
Thanks for the input everyone, I think I'm going to stick with FBC still.. but definitely staying away from Knorr pasta. I'm gonna cook some pasta tomorrow and dehydrate it, and that should make a better FBC.. I like the idea of using my own sauces (dehydrated) too.
Next week, I'm gonna make a Lamb and Guiness stew and see how the leftovers do on the dehydrator! Wish me luck :p
For Knorr's Rice I use 1/2 of a pack and add 5/8th of a cup of boiling water. Cover with insulation and wait 15 minutes
For Knorr's Pasta I use 1/2 of a pack and 3/4 of a cup of boiling water. COver and wait 15 minutes.
Works for me, might not be as good as when you add milk, butter and simmer but you can't find a lighter, easier way to cook.
julie, i use both systems, FBC and in-the-pot. i dehydrate most all my foods, those work best as FBC, and i use a home-made pot cozy that is lined w/ an insulating fabric. i find Lipton Side-type packets to cook better in the pot. lots of delicious, easy dehydrated meals to make can be found online, beginning w/ Laurie Ann's wilderness cooking website. have fun!
another personal experience:
Last year I dehydrated some spaghetti (when we had a long thread about dehydrating sauces) and some sauce and prepared it in field by FBC method. The sauce was "eh?". kind of runny.
This year I prepared in pot, with a simmer and it was great. Just like the original meal at home.
FBC is easier and cleanup is a non-issue. but not always best.
LaurieAnn
09-19-2010, 13:49
Next week, I'm gonna make a Lamb and Guiness stew and see how the leftovers do on the dehydrator! Wish me luck :p
A little advice about that.... separate the meat from the rest and cut it into small pieces. Dry the veggies and liquid at 135°F and the meat at 155°F. Then you can put them in the same bag for rehydrating. It's just that the meat will dry at a different rate. It also means that the vegetables won't be subject to case hardening and the meat will be dried at a safe temperature. You can also shred the meat to make it rehydrate much faster. Keep the veggie pieces about 1/2 inch or a little smaller but don't go bigger.
Hope this helps... and maybe (hint-beg-grovel-hint) you could share your recipe? lol... that wasn't very subtle, was it?
Can you do Knorr FBC? Sure, some do it. It takes a learning curve to get it right.
IMO though you can easily enough make your own meals that WILL work FBC without a learning curve - if you search here in the food section you will see many recipes that I have posted over the years (and as well Dicentra has posted many other FBC friendly meals).
i've cooked Knorr rice dishes FBC-style without any problem at all, very easy. however, i don't cook the entire Knorr's package all at the same time, that's a lot of food. at home i pour 1/2 of the contents (creamy rice) into a FB and add dehydrated chicken, in camp add 1.5 cups of hot water, seal FB and place inside cozy wait 12-15 min and eat.
Skidsteer
09-19-2010, 20:47
Get the Knorr whole grain when possible. The standard Knorr/Lipton doesn't have enough fiber in it to absorb water without cooking it.
Get the Knorr whole grain when possible. The standard Knorr/Lipton doesn't have enough fiber in it to absorb water without cooking it.
leave it to you to know about fiber...:D
Skidsteer
09-19-2010, 21:51
leave it to you to know about fiber...:D
Exactly. :D
.... separate the meat from the rest and cut it into small pieces. Dry the veggies and liquid at 135°F and the meat at 155°F. Then you can put them in the same bag for rehydrating. It's just that the meat will dry at a different rate. It also means that the vegetables won't be subject to case hardening and the meat will be dried at a safe temperature. You can also shred the meat to make it rehydrate much faster. Keep the veggie pieces about 1/2 inch or a little smaller but don't go bigger.
Hope this helps... and maybe (hint-beg-grovel-hint) you could share your recipe? lol... that wasn't very subtle, was it?
Thanks for the tip! I'll shred the meat up and dry separately according to your advice. This will actually be the first time that I've dried anything other than beef or fruit leather, so I'm kinda nervous/excited.... (sad, right?)
For the recipe, I'm going to admit that I'm not 100% sure.. We've tried a lot of different recipes we've found online, and I usually wing-it and
taste/adjust along the way. Here is the "recipe" approximately...
take 1 lb stew beef or lamb, cut into 1 inch cubes and cover lightly with seasoned flour (just a little salt and black pepper)...
In a large pot, saute 2 medium yellow onions (chopped) in olive oil until they are clear, medium heat , (sometimes I cook some bacon and use those drippings to saute the onions, depending on how healthy we feel that day) add heaping "table" spoon (just a regular spoon, not measuring) of garlic get the meat ready to put in.
Once the garlic is a little cooked, but not brown yet.. add the meat in.. you can do it in stages so that they are "searing" and not "steaming"... Basically you want to make sure that the pot is not overcrowded or else it won't brown.. I usually push all the onions to the edges of the pot and put the meat in the middle, so it doesn't get soggy. Once the meat is browned a little on all sides, mix it all back together and Guinness over it.. It has to cover the beef just barely. I think I usually use around 1 1/2 bottles, and give the hubby the rest lol. Cook for about an hour on low heat.. Check it to make sure it's just BARELY simmering, adjust heat if necessary. The exact time isn't important, I've done 30 minutes.. and forgot it for 2 hours once and it was still delicious! If you use lamb, don't go less than an hour though.
After the meat has cooked, add chopped veggies and then enough beef broth to cover the veggies. I usually use just carrots and potato, but sometimes some chopped up cabbage... I also add a load of ground black pepper at this time and 2 whole springs of fresh thyme. Make a little mixture of flour (1-2 tbsp) and water to thicken the broth, and stir it in... Cook until veggies are soft (30 mins or so?) and serve. We like to put a pile of mash in the bowl and pour the stew on top of it :D -- fish out the thyme too if you want to. If you cooked some bacon to get the drippings, you can add it back on top and it's extra yummy..As with most stews and such, this is good fresh... but AMAZING the next day.
Sorry so long! lol.. hope it doesn't sound too much like rambling and you can actually understand what I wrote.
OH! I also add mushrooms sometimes.. at the same time as carrots/potato
LaurieAnn
09-20-2010, 01:19
Thanks for the tip! I'll shred the meat up and dry separately according to your advice. This will actually be the first time that I've dried anything other than beef or fruit leather, so I'm kinda nervous/excited.... (sad, right?)
For the recipe, I'm going to admit that I'm not 100% sure.. We've tried a lot of different recipes we've found online, and I usually wing-it and
taste/adjust along the way. Here is the "recipe" approximately...
take 1 lb stew beef or lamb, cut into 1 inch cubes and cover lightly with seasoned flour (just a little salt and black pepper)...
In a large pot, saute 2 medium yellow onions (chopped) in olive oil until they are clear, medium heat , (sometimes I cook some bacon and use those drippings to saute the onions, depending on how healthy we feel that day) add heaping "table" spoon (just a regular spoon, not measuring) of garlic get the meat ready to put in.
Once the garlic is a little cooked, but not brown yet.. add the meat in.. you can do it in stages so that they are "searing" and not "steaming"... Basically you want to make sure that the pot is not overcrowded or else it won't brown.. I usually push all the onions to the edges of the pot and put the meat in the middle, so it doesn't get soggy. Once the meat is browned a little on all sides, mix it all back together and Guinness over it.. It has to cover the beef just barely. I think I usually use around 1 1/2 bottles, and give the hubby the rest lol. Cook for about an hour on low heat.. Check it to make sure it's just BARELY simmering, adjust heat if necessary. The exact time isn't important, I've done 30 minutes.. and forgot it for 2 hours once and it was still delicious! If you use lamb, don't go less than an hour though.
After the meat has cooked, add chopped veggies and then enough beef broth to cover the veggies. I usually use just carrots and potato, but sometimes some chopped up cabbage... I also add a load of ground black pepper at this time and 2 whole springs of fresh thyme. Make a little mixture of flour (1-2 tbsp) and water to thicken the broth, and stir it in... Cook until veggies are soft (30 mins or so?) and serve. We like to put a pile of mash in the bowl and pour the stew on top of it :D -- fish out the thyme too if you want to. If you cooked some bacon to get the drippings, you can add it back on top and it's extra yummy..As with most stews and such, this is good fresh... but AMAZING the next day.
Sorry so long! lol.. hope it doesn't sound too much like rambling and you can actually understand what I wrote.
Thanks!! Much appreciated.
Not sad at all. I remember my first experiences with the dehydrator. Actually there's a copy of a great article by Christine Conners on my website... Dehydrophobia.
I usually just wing it too. It was a total pain in the butt when I had to start writing my recipes down. I make something we call Kitchen Pasta and my friend asked me for the recipe... I couldn't really tell her because it's a little bit of whatever is in the kitchen Sometimes there is zucchini, eggplant and tomatoes and sometimes it's tomatoes, red peppers and olives. A little of this and that.
I'm going to try this stew as it sounds delicious and it gives me an excuse to buy some Guinness. I love the idea of the mashed. You could do that pretty easily on the trail. I'll probably dry some too... if Bryan doesn't eat it all.
This is a bit off topic, but has anyone tried the new "cheesy bacon macaroni" knorr pasta side? I can't wait!
LaurieAnn
09-20-2010, 07:58
This is a bit off topic, but has anyone tried the new "cheesy bacon macaroni" knorr pasta side? I can't wait!
I haven't had that one but I've had the Creamy Bacon Carbonara. It was okay but I find that the pasta in the Knorr dishes less than desirable and I hate the amount of sodium. That said, I'd eat it on the trail by day 14... lol.
Rocketman
09-20-2010, 22:42
Hello! I'm a beginner at trail cooking, and have decided to stick with FBC. I'm not here to discuss that decision, but I'm looking for advice about the Knorr Pasta Sides, specific to FBC.
How do you get a successful FBC with Knorr pasta sides?
An important point is to look on the package for the suggested normal cooking time. If the suggested cooking time is over 10 minutes, you are going to have problems with FBC. The reason is that the stove top method assumes a constant temperature of basically the boiling point, and FBC is not at a constant temperature, but is a continually declining one - which is alwauys less than the stove top method.
In other words, you won't be able to generate enough time at high temperature to accomplish the cooking of the pasta.
There are some pasta dishes which are listed as needing only 7 or 8 minutes, and these will work much better for you. A 12 minute listed cooking time pasta is just unsuitable for FBC methods unless you have a perfectly insulating cozy - and nobody has such a beast at backpacking weight and size.
There are a great many rice Knorr Side dishes in the 7 to 8 minute cooking time range. You should try some of those. You will find that they finish well with FBC methods. Any 12 minute Knorr Side rice dish will suffer about the same problems as the 12 minute pasta dishes.
The recipe on the box for a stove top method is for simmering in an open pan for 7,8.10,or12 minutes. During that time, some of the water boils off - evaporates. In a cozy, the dish is pretty much sealed inside and no water evaporates.
Therefore, if you use the FBC method and the total amount of liquid stated on the box for the stove top method, you will end up with excess water in the final product.
The longer the suggested cooking stovetop cooking time, the more you will have to cut back on the water to try to cook it by FBC.
If you have a good scale, you can weigh the water (without the Knorr Side) during simulated cooking to watch how much water vanishes as cooking time increases. This is a fair estimate of how much water to eliminate if you are going to try doing the dish with FBC.
I eventually decided to simply stop messing with long cooking Knorr Sides of any sort and buy what is available in 7 and 8 minute cooking times.
I am toying with the idea of a double cozy for trying to extend cooking times, but acute pancreatitis has set my good health back a good month or more. Eventually, I will make a sort of "scientific" report on the limits to which FBC extends to long cooking Knorr Sides and other packages rice and pasta and "Helper" boxed foods.
Really good cozys may be less practical than the simple ones often sold, and it may be hard to figure out just how good any particular cozy is. That complicates understanding different people's experiences with different equipment and foods.
On cozies...it comes down to how long they can hold the heat in. To test get a good espresso thermometer (the type used for steaming milk). When you make a meal pop it in, seal the bag and let the top of thermometer hang out of the corner of the cozy. This works well in testing how hot the food is at 5, 10 and 15 minutes.
Doubling up doesn't necessarily work any better if it gets too bulky to use - which is a real issue with Reflectix ones over fabric ones.
LaurieAnn
09-21-2010, 16:23
It's more than whether or not a cozy can keep the heat in... how well a cozying method works not only depends on the cozy itself but on the temperature of the air, temperature of the food and the water temperature of course.
Overall the food doesn't affect it - unless one is adding in pouched items (like chicken, tuna). The dry food is overall stable.
There isn't a huge range of materials used for cozies - Reflectix, Insul Bright and neoprene are the major ones. Though for winter cozies a pipe insulater cannot be beat. Yeah, the $1 kind at Home Depot. Ugly but work well. And outside temps do not play in with these.
BTW, on ALL final cozy testing I do - they are tested at Rainier at 6600 feet in alpine tundra usually at around 34*. I wait for storms in summer and head up to the Sunrise area. Well that and it is a good excuse to go hiking. :D We are lucky tohave year round access to extreme testing situations.
The first fabric cozies I developed came out of a winter trip of minus temps. when it passed that I knew all was well.
LaurieAnn
09-21-2010, 19:23
Overall the food doesn't affect it - unless one is adding in pouched items (like chicken, tuna). The dry food is overall stable.
There isn't a huge range of materials used for cozies - Reflectix, Insul Bright and neoprene are the major ones. Though for winter cozies a pipe insulater cannot be beat. Yeah, the $1 kind at Home Depot. Ugly but work well. And outside temps do not play in with these.
BTW, on ALL final cozy testing I do - they are tested at Rainier at 6600 feet in alpine tundra usually at around 34*. I wait for storms in summer and head up to the Sunrise area. Well that and it is a good excuse to go hiking. :D We are lucky tohave year round access to extreme testing situations.
The first fabric cozies I developed came out of a winter trip of minus temps. when it passed that I knew all was well.
I have to respectfully disagree on the temp of the dried ingredients not being a factor. Maybe it isn't in the temps around 34°F... but that is still above freezing. It can be a bit of an issue when one is out in temps between 15°F and 30°F which can be quite typical in some parts of the East and around the Great Lakes. We've been on some snowshoe trips where it got that cold and that's not considering things like windchill. The cold food can drop the water temperature significantly and affect rehydration success and length of time.
somers515
11-06-2015, 14:42
An important point is to look on the package for the suggested normal cooking time. If the suggested cooking time is over 10 minutes, you are going to have problems with FBC. The reason is that the stove top method assumes a constant temperature of basically the boiling point, and FBC is not at a constant temperature, but is a continually declining one - which is alwauys less than the stove top method.
In other words, you won't be able to generate enough time at high temperature to accomplish the cooking of the pasta.
There are some pasta dishes which are listed as needing only 7 or 8 minutes, and these will work much better for you. A 12 minute listed cooking time pasta is just unsuitable for FBC methods unless you have a perfectly insulating cozy - and nobody has such a beast at backpacking weight and size.
There are a great many rice Knorr Side dishes in the 7 to 8 minute cooking time range. You should try some of those. You will find that they finish well with FBC methods. Any 12 minute Knorr Side rice dish will suffer about the same problems as the 12 minute pasta dishes.
The recipe on the box for a stove top method is for simmering in an open pan for 7,8.10,or12 minutes. During that time, some of the water boils off - evaporates. In a cozy, the dish is pretty much sealed inside and no water evaporates.
Therefore, if you use the FBC method and the total amount of liquid stated on the box for the stove top method, you will end up with excess water in the final product.
The longer the suggested cooking stovetop cooking time, the more you will have to cut back on the water to try to cook it by FBC.
If you have a good scale, you can weigh the water (without the Knorr Side) during simulated cooking to watch how much water vanishes as cooking time increases. This is a fair estimate of how much water to eliminate if you are going to try doing the dish with FBC.
I eventually decided to simply stop messing with long cooking Knorr Sides of any sort and buy what is available in 7 and 8 minute cooking times.
I am toying with the idea of a double cozy for trying to extend cooking times, but acute pancreatitis has set my good health back a good month or more. Eventually, I will make a sort of "scientific" report on the limits to which FBC extends to long cooking Knorr Sides and other packages rice and pasta and "Helper" boxed foods.
Really good cozys may be less practical than the simple ones often sold, and it may be hard to figure out just how good any particular cozy is. That complicates understanding different people's experiences with different equipment and foods.
Ok Rocketman it's been a few years, looking for report! : )
Good advice above, and what I'm about to suggest is what I would try given your goals - I have not tried it yet. But I would take about half the amount of COLD water I plan to use and mix it with the Knorr 30 to 60 minutes ahead of time. Then add the boiling water when ready and let sit as needed to cook and cool. Hopefully this would pre-soften the pasta and allow for more efficient heat transfer. If someone has already tried this maybe they can post results.