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Odd Man Out
09-20-2010, 22:32
I made an alcohol stove tonight. What a fun activity!
I was using the instructions for a penny stove and it works like a charm.
I was able to make the whole thing with only two cans, a scissors, and my Victorinox Tinker pocket knife (and a penny).
The only problem I had was the first time I light the stove, it flared up pretty bad. Then the primer fuel above the penny burned out before the stove was pressurized so it went out. Then when I went to put in more primer fuel, the penny wouldn't seal so I had to fill the stove up enough so the fuel level was above the filling hole. That took quite a lot of fuel, but I didn't measure. The second time, it didn't "pop" but primed nicely and burned perfectly at full heat for about 15 minutes.

Any hints on how to get it to prime better or avoid the pop when lighting the first time?

yaduck9
09-20-2010, 23:08
something doesn't sound quite right. You should not have to fill the stove all the way to the top and out the fill hole to get it to prime properly, its a waste of fuel. A pressurized stove, like the penny stove, can be a touchy endeavor. Getting the number of jets, size of jets, and the correct amount of heat transfer to "boil" the alcohol at the best speed is a lot to chew off for your first stove. It sounds as if your "penny" is not sealing properly and that may cause the pop ( or might not ). The pop comes from the dieing flame igniting the last wisps of alcohol vapor inside your stove. So it may also be that your jets are too large. Substituting more smaller jets may work. Also make sure you are using denatured alcohol, and not rubbing alcohol.

You may want to try a cat can stove. Simple, inexpensive, safe ( relatively ). Check out ZenStoves.com for a whole variety of different designs, including pressurized ( like the penny stove ).

Too much typing, I am going to take a nap.

Odd Man Out
09-21-2010, 00:01
The pop happens when I light it, not when it is dying. Yes the penny is not sealing. I can work on that. Could try more smaller jets, although the original instructions used only 6 larger ones. Am burning methanol.

yaduck9
09-21-2010, 00:24
priming with a piece of aluminum foil as a primer plate may be a better way to get the stove lit and up to speed. Place a some drops on the primer plate and the top of the stove. The trick is to get the alcohol boiling as soon as possible. filling the recess on top with alcohol, and lighting wont transfer heat as fast as using a priming pan. You still need some alcohol on top to light the jets.

A pepsi can stove ( like a trangia ) with an open top gets around that whole issue.

its a challenging stove to "tune"

SGT Rock
09-21-2010, 07:05
I'd try either putting a priming plate under it and filling that, or better yet, go with a zero pressure stove.

Chenango
09-21-2010, 10:49
I'd try either putting a priming plate under it and filling that, or better yet, go with a zero pressure stove.


SGT Rock - I have been using a wind screen (with my alcohol stove) I made following the directions on your site. After 150 miles of use, I can heartily say, "I love it." It is easy to make, very light, and functions well. Thanks.

Grinder
09-21-2010, 11:51
+1 on the priming plate.

Especially in the great outdoors with the wind and cold.

SGT Rock
09-21-2010, 13:57
SGT Rock - I have been using a wind screen (with my alcohol stove) I made following the directions on your site. After 150 miles of use, I can heartily say, "I love it." It is easy to make, very light, and functions well. Thanks.

You're welcome. :D

Odd Man Out
09-21-2010, 16:13
I know many people use a soup can lid for a priming plate. I did try an aluminum foil priming plate, but it was a rather lame attempt. I will work on that part next.

Rain Man
09-21-2010, 20:14
Any hints on how to get it to prime better or avoid the pop when lighting the first time?


Yeah, and not being a smart-aleck, but my hint is to make about two dozen more. That's what I did. Amazing what a few more/fewer holes, larger/smaller holes, and etc. will do. It's art, not science, in other words.

And one more hint ... ENJOY!

P.S. I finally settled on simple cat stoves. Get small cat food can. Clean. Get one-hole paper punch. Punch holes around the can about 2/3rds of way up. Pour in alcohol and light. So easy a cave man could do it. :)

Rain:sunMan

.

Skidsteer
09-21-2010, 20:29
....or better yet, go with a zero pressure stove.

Second that.

Pressurized stoves, and penny stoves in particular, are a poor design for the average do-it-yourselfer.

I don't know anybody that's been making stoves for any length of time that recommends them at all other than just for fun.

Unless they are selling one.

Spokes
09-21-2010, 21:49
I always used a tuna can top cut off with a safety opener as a priming pan. It has just enough of a lip for the fuel. Practice will help you gauge the right amount.

BTW, here's another vote for a simple cat food can stove. Google or YouTube search "Fancy Feast Alcohol Stove" for more info.

Cheers!

Odd Man Out
09-22-2010, 23:25
Second that.

Pressurized stoves, and penny stoves in particular, are a poor design for the average do-it-yourselfer.

I don't know anybody that's been making stoves for any length of time that recommends them at all other than just for fun.

Unless they are selling one.

The idea was to learn enough to become better than the average do-it-yourselfer. And considering that all three of my first attempts work fine suggest it isn't all that hard. I have solved my initial problems by READING THE DIRECTIONS (duh). The problem wasn't in the construction, but rather with the user. Will work on the priming pan next. I suppose I should make a pot stand to I can actually cook something too. Tonight's version 3 burned for 10 minutes on 1.75 oz of fuel. Now working with a pocket knife only.

And yes it is a lot of fun.

sheepdog
09-22-2010, 23:42
you are hooked now


pretty soon you'll start buying stuff at the store


just for the can

jeremiah j
09-22-2010, 23:46
Would'nt ethanol work better than methanol?

mkmangold
09-22-2010, 23:51
Would'nt ethanol work better than methanol?

On Friday nights it does.

Odd Man Out: I like this guy's stove http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcrW27Leo4w.
It's easy to make, durable, and light. Try using a Venom Energy drink bottle with this and see what happens. Oh yeah, I agree that pretty soon you will be buying things just for the containers!

4eyedbuzzard
09-23-2010, 01:01
you are hooked now


pretty soon you'll start buying stuff at the store


just for the can

The Classic Turkey and Giblets is pretty tasty on crackers as well :D [Throwing it away just seemed like such a waste]

Spokes
09-23-2010, 07:44
Second that.

Pressurized stoves, and penny stoves in particular, are a poor design for the average do-it-yourselfer.

I don't know anybody that's been making stoves for any length of time that recommends them at all other than just for fun.

Unless they are selling one.

I agree Skidsteer.

The biggest problem is people end up over-priming the darn things resulting in a flaming mess that burns up most of the usable fuel. Then they wonder why the stove won't stay lit long enough to cook a pot of noodles.

I lump "remotely fueled alcohol stoves" (the newest rave) in the same group. Why complicate things with hoses and such? Of course, some people may think they're a fun little novelty item to impress their buddies when car camping....

I say keep it simple with an open vent style stove that doesn't require a pot stand. It's all you really need on a thru hike.

Cheers!

sheepdog
09-23-2010, 12:55
The Classic Turkey and Giblets is pretty tasty on crackers as well :D [Throwing it away just seemed like such a waste]
a dog will eat "potted meat"



a cat looks at you like you are crazy

Odd Man Out
09-23-2010, 14:26
Odd Man Out: I like this guy's stove http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcrW27Leo4w. It's easy to make, durable, and light. Try using a Venom Energy drink bottle with this and see what happens. Oh yeah, I agree that pretty soon you will be buying things just for the containers!

Last year I bought a Mini Bull BIOS, which is pretty much the same as the video. I have used hiking already. I wanted to make my own so I can experiment with the design parameters.

Various styles, designs, etc.. claim to have their own pro's and con's. Desirable traits seem to be these:

Efficient (lots of useful heat output per amount of fuel burned)
Powerful (lots of useful heat output per minute)
Easy to Use
Cheap/Easy to Make (with readily available tools and materials)
Robust (sturdy, always works)
Works well in all conditions (cold,wind,etc).
Versatile (simmer, boil)

Given that no design will be best in all categories, which of these characteristics would YOU value most for a long distance AT hike?

And, yes I am already buying stuff for the bottles only. Why else would I buy Heineken?

pistol p
09-26-2010, 15:33
P.S. I finally settled on simple cat stoves. Get small cat food can. Clean. Get one-hole paper punch. Punch holes around the can about 2/3rds of way up. Pour in alcohol and light. So easy a cave man could do it. :)

Rain:sunMan

.


That's exactly what I use. $.79 on sale :)
(aluminum plate and rivet...free)

topshelf
09-26-2010, 15:41
I just made myself a penny stove, I dont have a drill so I used a push pin and it seems to be a good enough size. I see directions with various numbers of holes for the flames. Right now I have 6 holes, but since they are on the small side should I add more? How many holes do you all use in yours? What would you recommend for me who used a push pin to make the holes?

Spokes
09-26-2010, 17:39
If you want a really nice tight flame jet pattern use a Dremel tool with a #72 mini-drill bit. Hobby shops usually carry them. You'll be amazed.

Get the hole pattern template (http://zenstoves.net/Templates.htm) from Zen Stoves. Just be sure to read the instructions when printing so they don't get improperly re-sized!

topshelf
09-26-2010, 20:15
well I can't put up the money right now for a tool I'm only going to use when I need a backpacking stove. I measured the push pin to be 1 mm thick and the 72 drill bit you suggested was .635 mm. So I'll try the first one with 15 holes the size of a push pin, which is a hole about every 24 degrees. I think it'll work out to be roughly the same pressures inside.

Odd Man Out
09-27-2010, 15:35
I make holes using the reamer tool on my Swiss Army Knife (Tinker), so I have no idea how big they are. I make six holes and when burning each jet is about 1.5 to 2 inches tall. With practice, drilling the holes with the knife is very fast, easy, and they seem to be very consistent.

topshelf
09-27-2010, 22:23
Would it be better to make a stove with smaller holes to create more pressure inside? I have 15 at 1 mm diameter. But I do know I need to be careful not to create too much pressure. Guess I'll light and get back to find out.

Tinker
09-29-2010, 14:25
Would it be better to make a stove with smaller holes to create more pressure inside? I have 15 at 1 mm diameter. But I do know I need to be careful not to create too much pressure. Guess I'll light and get back to find out.

Increasing pressure does nothing to increase the efficiency of the stove. An effective air/alcohol mixture and the best stove/pot diameter, coupled with a good windscreen will do much more.
I have used Jim Wood's Supercat stove for the past three years. It's simple as falling off a greased log to make and reliable as the sunrise. More holes make a hotter, quicker burning stove, fewer make a slower burning, cooler stove (# of holes controls the carburetion, or ratio of air to alcohol - more holes, more air, fewer holes...........you get the picture :)).

topshelf
09-30-2010, 20:32
So I finished my Heine can stove. I have some leaking going on around the burner piece and the cup. I timed that it ran 6 minutes the first time, but I'm sure I over filled it. The second time it burned for 13 minutes. How long should my stove run, without leaks? How long does yours burn? BTW I used denatured alcohol.

Skidsteer
09-30-2010, 21:40
So I finished my Heine can stove. I have some leaking going on around the burner piece and the cup. I timed that it ran 6 minutes the first time, but I'm sure I over filled it. The second time it burned for 13 minutes. How long should my stove run, without leaks? How long does yours burn? BTW I used denatured alcohol.

First, your stove should not leak. Period. Ever. Even if you overfill it. Not good.

Second, a comparison of burn times is worthless unless the fuel is measured and it's probably of marginal worth even then unless the two stoves are of similar type to begin with.

Do you know how much denatured you used?

4eyedbuzzard
09-30-2010, 21:50
Guess I'll light [it] and get back to find out.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://utenti.multimania.it/paolaharris/Graphics/nucleardet2.jpg

topshelf
09-30-2010, 21:56
I used 1 shot glass, so 1.5 ounces

Skidsteer
09-30-2010, 22:57
I used 1 shot glass, so 1.5 ounces

My stove will only hold an ounce but for what it's worth(not much), an ounce will last about 20-25 minutes depending on the weather. That is using a pot and windscreen, not an open burn.