View Full Version : Sleeping Bag Question.
Transient Being
10-08-2010, 13:17
What would you consider the deadline for a 10 day hike from Fontana Dam north with a Marmot Pinnacle 15 sleeping bag. I've got some good thermals and a balaclava, just not much experience on this part of the trail or backpacking this time of the year. I know I'll be going over Clingmans Dome, so not sure how much colder it is up there. I'm trying to plan my trip in mid to late October, but could I possibly do it in November? Any advice appreciated.
flemdawg1
10-08-2010, 14:49
I took a 15 deg BA down bag to the Mt. Sterling in Feb with 2" of snow on the ground. you should be fine.
IronGutsTommy
10-08-2010, 15:18
yeah 15 is a good low rating, ive used 10s in dead of winter. definitely use a sleeping pad. itll keep you off the cold ground and traps a layer of dead air warmed by your body in between your bag and your pad
rodonne1
10-08-2010, 21:44
I'm gonna be in the market for a new bag, I'm thinking of going with down as well.
rodonne1
10-08-2010, 21:45
What is a good rating for someone camping in North Georgia, +25?
skinewmexico
10-08-2010, 22:23
A good insulated pad is probably more important (or as important) as the bag. And you can always add a little warmth with a lightweight bivy, like a TiGoat.
Transient Being
10-10-2010, 11:19
Thanks for the replies (and reassurance). Sounds like I'll be good through November. Right now I've got one of those therma-rest egg crate mats. I'll probably just stick with it although those inflatable ones look pretty comfortable.
That "egg crate" mat is the Z Lite. Rated at R2.2. Roughly that is the equivalent to a 35f sleeping bag.
And that is exactly why some feel that their 20f sleeping bag does not really work all that well at 20f.
(hint it would with an appropriate mat...)
That is what Skinewmexico was getting at.
Franco
Rocketman
10-11-2010, 07:34
Cold, cold ground sure sucks the heat out of you.
When you are shivering in your 15*F bag at 15*F on 15*F ground with a dinky little lightweight inexpensive ground pad, think about it.
Pat yourself on the back for weight an money savings whenever you stop shivering.
StorminMormon
10-11-2010, 09:47
I was going to start a similar thread, but I figured I'd piggy back on this one instead. So I have a Mountain Hardwear Pinole 20 degree bag. I'm going to be hiking from Davenport Gap to Hot Springs North Carolina mid November (36 miles, 3 days) with my wife. I'm renting a similar bag for her and we're both going to have good sleeping pads. I don't think the temp will dip down to 20...probably high 20s or low 30s.
I've done a lot of spring and summer backpacking, but this is my first winter (late fall) backpacking. It seems to me that some people trust the temp ratings on bags...while others don't. I don't get it. I'm sure experience and time will tell me a lot, but I'm hoping to avoid some very uncomfortable nights if at all possible.
Any ideas...thoughts?
It seems to me that some people trust the temp ratings on bags...while others don't. I don't get it.
Any ideas...thoughts?
Some advertisers quote honest comfortable sleep numbers, some dont.
Also some people just sleep cold, use inadequate mats etc.
I have found Montbell bags to be honestly rated but I am a warm sleeper.
Not sure about the ratings of Mountain hardware bags, but they are a good company.
Rocketman
10-11-2010, 10:21
I was going to start a similar thread, but I figured I'd piggy back on this one instead. So I have a Mountain Hardwear Pinole 20 degree bag. I'm going to be hiking from Davenport Gap to Hot Springs North Carolina mid November (36 miles, 3 days) with my wife. I'm renting a similar bag for her and we're both going to have good sleeping pads. I don't think the temp will dip down to 20...probably high 20s or low 30s.
I've done a lot of spring and summer backpacking, but this is my first winter (late fall) backpacking. It seems to me that some people trust the temp ratings on bags...while others don't. I don't get it. I'm sure experience and time will tell me a lot, but I'm hoping to avoid some very uncomfortable nights if at all possible.
Any ideas...thoughts?
Yeah.
Be prepared to sleep in all your clothes just in case. Surely you will have a fleece or puffy vest or puffy jacket for the evening hours. Wind shirt is also good. Wind pants will help warm the lower body inside the bag.
I'm not saying that you sleep in these extra clothes "every night", but this is an insurance option for you both. Inside a tent for two people will help a lot, and a properly pitched tarp will be helpful too.
Don't forget keeping your ground side insulated. You don't just get cold from the air above. You could use extra clothing or rain gear to give you a tad more insulation from the ground if you need it.
You don't want to get your wife turned off of your hobby by being too cold, and she's probably trusting you completely to keep her from getting uncomfortably cold.
Rocketman
10-11-2010, 10:30
Businessmen are know to lie and cheat in the absence of strict regulation which is enforced.
There are no strict regulations (in the USA) on the temperature ratings of sleeping bags.
Therefore some businessmen will lie about their sleeping bag temperature ratings.
The cheap brands are most famous for this. Slumberjack comes most to mind, but many chain sporting goods stores sell to the lowest price buyers, and these are the ones that commonly end up with overly warm ratings of their sleeping bags.
It is just free enterprise unregulated business. The economics texts lecture us that the cheating manufacturers will be driven out of business by their practices. Yeah. This has been going on ever since I started backpacking back in about 1972. The cheaters largely manage to hang on because so many buyers remain ignorant of the products they are buying, the experience of others and that darned cheap or low price drives logic completely from their minds.
"This time, it is going to be OK" and it often isn't.
There is a political party which appears to believe that the instant that a man or woman goes into business, high moral behavior automatically follows and that there are virtually no dishonest businessmen or businesswomen.
theinfamousj
10-11-2010, 10:41
I don't think the temp will dip down to 20...probably high 20s or low 30s.
Um ... I was just up that way two weekends ago and the temperatures were hovering around 20*F at about 3 am. I carry a thermometer and took the reading myself when the rest of my crew started to complain about being cold.
I can only imagine that the temperatures will be similarly cold.
I carry a -5*F bag (probably overkill for the both of you) because I am a coooooooooold sleeper, but a 0*F bag may not be overkill for your wife. Having a chilly night won't turn you off to backpacking, but you want her to be toasty warm, no? Besides, most 0*F bags aren't that much heavier than a 20*F bag, right? (My -5*F bag weighs in at 2.5 lbs.)
Just an FYI, most of my backpacking experience is in fall/winter backpacking in the NC mountains. I've got :: counts :: 8 years under my belt. I'm still trying to figure out summer. ;)
theinfamousj
10-11-2010, 10:47
I'm hoping that this picture will further help me with my point. Thought it may be hard to tell what you are looking at, one of my neophyte backpackers I took on my trip Oct 1-3 snapped a photo of frost on her tent's fly. She was shocked that at 8:30 am the frost hadn't melted. Temps were still below 32*F at that point.
She also had an incredibly cold night after renting a 20*F bag and associated sleeping pad from REI. She was up at 3 am borrowing clothes from myself and the other experienced guy on the trip in order to try to get some sleep.
StorminMormon
10-11-2010, 10:55
Um ... I was just up that way two weekends ago and the temperatures were hovering around 20*F at about 3 am. I carry a thermometer and took the reading myself when the rest of my crew started to complain about being cold.
I can only imagine that the temperatures will be similarly cold.
Wow! It really got that cold? I can only look at temperatures for surrounding towns (I checked the Almanac for last year) and then subtract 10 or 15 degrees to "guess" at what the temps will be like in the mountains, so I was figuring on High 20s, or low 30s. But if you say it was that cold a couple weeks ago...then I believe you.
I have a friend that just completed that very hike yesterday. Waiting to hear back from him on his experience. I do have all the appropriate fleece, jackets, and wind/rain gear. So between that and a 20 degree bag and a nice tent - I'm hoping we'll be ok. I'm going to pack several "hand warmers" to toss in our bags if it gets uncomfortable.
Man...I can't believe it got that cold a couple weeks ago. I hope I'm not setting us up for a miserable hike.
It's so difficult to guess what might be "enough" for a given person in a given situation, but exacerbating that is not knowing what the O.P. has in the way of clothing that can be worn inside the sleeping bag (presumeably more than just the listed "good thermals and a balaclava", or what StorminMormon has in the way of "appropriate fleece, jackets, and wind/rain gear".
A 20F rated Western Mountaineering down bag was fine for me with a February (NOBO AT) thru-hike start this year (low temps got down to the upper teens), but very much due to being augmented with a Montbell Alpinlite parka that I wore inside the bag, feathered friends down booties, and both a balaclava and a separate warm hat that I could wear over balaclava. And of course the sleeping bag has to have sufficient volume that clothing layers can adequately loft.
Ditto all the above on sleeping pad stuff too, of course.
I think the best answer is to try to find a convenient and safe place to try out a given combination (of bag, clothing, and padding) before starting a long cold weather trip. For me, that can be an hour or two drive to climb several thousand feet and get colder night time temps; I realize that's not so convenient for everyone.
theinfamousj
10-11-2010, 11:55
Wow! It really got that cold? I can only look at temperatures for surrounding towns (I checked the Almanac for last year) and then subtract 10 or 15 degrees to "guess" at what the temps will be like in the mountains, so I was figuring on High 20s, or low 30s. But if you say it was that cold a couple weeks ago...then I believe you.
I have a friend that just completed that very hike yesterday. Waiting to hear back from him on his experience. I do have all the appropriate fleece, jackets, and wind/rain gear. So between that and a 20 degree bag and a nice tent - I'm hoping we'll be ok. I'm going to pack several "hand warmers" to toss in our bags if it gets uncomfortable.
Man...I can't believe it got that cold a couple weeks ago. I hope I'm not setting us up for a miserable hike.
The temperature at Hot Springs was reported to be in the 40s for a low and that was what I was going with until a friend who lived up that way said, "40 up here feels like 20. Pack for 20." So I did. And then at altitude it really was almost 20. Though it explains all of my previous October-in-Pisgah cold experience. There was even a hard frost in September a year or two ago up near Hot Springs. And me without appropriate warm clothing. I had to bail on that hike.
Two in a tent? You'll be fine! Just use the fly (of course).
I was able to lend all of my warm clothes and sleep in a t-shirt and shorts (and my -5*F bag) because I had a male source of body heat in my tent. Don't know how he felt about me stealing his body heat, but it was radiating outward anyway, so I doubt he needed it. :rolleyes:
StorminMormon
10-11-2010, 14:17
Yeah, my buddy who just got back this weekend said it was "kinda" hot at night. Meaning, his bag and clothing was too warm for the circumstances. I'm going to "prepare for the worst" and "hope for the best". I'll be prepared for if it gets crazy cold but I'm hoping for a relatively dry and mild-wintery weather.
Good reason to carry a topper. I have a golite ultra 20 and I have slept in it down to 14dF comfortably. Weighs 21 oz. It is actually not that bad in moderate weather if you hang your feet out.
I am also in the process of making a 2.5 oz climashild over quilt that should add another 10-15 dF. It will weigh about 15 oz. Should weigh 36 oz by the time its all said and done, and be good from summer through winter.