Sealskinz Socks in Winter

[Glee]

I know this has been talked about here and was wondering if there are any other reports of success with them. I see on Sgt Rocks web site that he uses them in the rain. I will be doing a winter hike and expect to hit cold weather. I'm thinking, thin liner, wool sock, Sealskinz. They have the really long sealskinz socks now which even if you step in water above the sock it will not allow water in. I know there is the sweat factor, but walking in freezing temps I just can't seem to come up with a workable solution.

[orangebug]

If your talking about a VBL sort of sock, and I got some, the technique would be foot, liner, VBL and then wool sock. Most of the time, the VBL just rides in your pack, but it is really nice to have when you need them.

[Happy]

I use the Sealskinz sock in the winter with my trailrunners. I use a liner sock under them to prevent abrasion...but have yet to need the wool sock on top although it would be feasible.

Really warm and great for streamcrossing and the only thing I have found that keeps my feet warm at night during winter camping.

[The Will]

I recall reading a review some years back comparing the Sealskinz fabric to Gore-Tex. In the study, the Gore-Tex breathed better. All things (price, etc.,) being equal, I might select Gore-Tex sock over Sealskinz socks. However, if the Sealskinz are less expensive, than I doubt the is enough of a difference to warrant the express cost.

Just on general use...I carry a pair of Gore-Tex socks to where with my Trail runners during the cooler season...I'm quite satisfied.

[Pencil Pusher]

And these can double as mittens!

[Singletrack]

Maybe others had a better experience with the sealskinz than I did. My feet got real hot, and sweaty, even in cold temps. When I took them off my feet had shriveled up like a prune. And they stunk real bad. I threw them away in a dumpster in the next town.

[orangebug]

Just how cold and what sort of water was on the ground?

I think they make the most sense when deal with posthole-ing, wading through cold water or other severe cold and wet circumstances. You will have the sweat factor and the prune thing going, but you won't have frost bite to your toes.

[Glee]

Well I’ve spent 3 hours looking up opinions on the Seal Skinz socks. Of course, the results are mixed. Most of the gear reviews are not from people who are doing long-term winter hiking. They are out for a day and are able to come back inside a nice warm house and put them in the dryer. However, there are a few who did use them in cold, heavy rain, and snow. The biggest problem is they might keep your feet warm, but once they are wet, they take forever to dry out. I found this to be true with the gloves, which I found useless on the AT. So, the jury is out. They work well in keeping the feet warm and dry in camp, but then so will a good VBL sock for half the price. However, researching the socks, I was able to pick up a lot of tips on keeping the feet warm during the winter. The running, and biking groups have some good info on the subject. They have had the same mixed results with the Seal Skinz Socks.

[David S.]

I'm just thinking outloud here. Waterproof socks seem interesting...but I am thinking if you wear the sock directly on the skin, you keep heat in. That is good in the winter...but if its really cold out you also need insulation. So I guess you put a sock over the VB which is directly next to your skin. In dry conditions this would keep your sweat from wetting out the sock. However in wet conditions...like fording many small creeks or hiking on mushy boggy trails, it would be good to keep your socks from getting wet so you would need to put the socks on first and the VB on the outside, with the sock next to your skin. But now you risk wetting out the sock from sweat even though no outside water is getting in. (still warmer than outside water getting in and probably less wet) I am assuming that this is how a VB sock is normaly used...on the outside of a regular sock. Ultimately, you could wear a VB next to your skin, a sock over that, then another VB over the sock so the insulation always stays dry...but that just seems like major overkill and alot of extra weight.

[Youngblood]

Glee,

I have a pair of SealSkin socks and I have mixed feeling about them. When I looked into them a year or so ago I was surprised at what I found. The pair that I have have a COTTON inner lining which takes forever and then some to dry out once they get saturated. I bought these at REI maybe 3 years ago not realizing that they used cotton. I haven't checked SealSkins web site recently, but when I did they offered models that had the cotton and models that had synthetic wicking material. I don't think you want the ones with the cotton inner liner.

I would not put these or GoreTek socks into a clothes dryer. You need to be careful what you subject to those types of temperatures as you might melt something internal to the product that compromises its waterproofness.

Youngblood

[Youngblood]

I'm just thinking outloud here. Waterproof socks seem interesting...but I am thinking if you wear the sock directly on the skin, you keep heat in. That is good in the winter...but if its really cold out you also need insulation. So I guess you put a sock over the VB which is directly next to your skin. In dry conditions this would keep your sweat from wetting out the sock. However in wet conditions...like fording many small creeks or hiking on mushy boggy trails, it would be good to keep your socks from getting wet so you would need to put the socks on first and the VB on the outside, with the sock next to your skin. But now you risk wetting out the sock from sweat even though no outside water is getting in. (still warmer than outside water getting in and probably less wet) I am assuming that this is how a VB sock is normaly used...on the outside of a regular sock. Ultimately, you could wear a VB next to your skin, a sock over that, then another VB over the sock so the insulation always stays dry...but that just seems like major overkill and alot of extra weight.

You have it figured out pretty well. There is a difference between a vapor barrier (its also waterproof) and waterproof socks.

Vapor barriers are typically used for warmth and are worn close to the foot, maybe over a liner with insulation on top of the vapor barrier. The liner sock will typically be damp or even very wet if the vapor barrier is a really good vapor barrier like plastic and such that don't pass anything.

Waterproof socks can be breathable and waterproof and worn with insulation underneath with the hope of the breathablity allowing water vapor to pass through such that you stay dry or only slightly damp. This sometimes works great and other times doesn't work so well, depending on several factors. Waterproof and breathable is like a vapor barrier that isn't a great vapor barrier in that it lets some vapor through... but it blocks a whole bunch of it.

Youngblood

[Glee]

Glee,

I would not put these or GoreTek socks into a clothes dryer. You need to be careful what you subject to those types of temperatures as you might melt something internal to the product that compromises its waterproofness.

Youngblood
One woman reported that when trying to dry the Seals in a dryer on low (per instructions) that it did not dry them. She then put them on high and they were dry. She said, that she felt they were just as waterproof as before. She tried the same with her GorTex socks and they fell apart. Of course, I've yet to see a dryer on the AT so I guess this is a mute subject.. I guess with anything, it is trial by error. However, frozen toes is a high price to pay. I'm pretty limited in my weather here in Northern CA. I would love some snow to try how different ways to keep the feet warm, and dry. The one tip that I kept seeing over and over, was not to have so many layers as it will take away air between the socks.

[Youngblood]

One woman reported that when trying to dry the Seals in a dryer on low (per instructions) that it did not dry them. She then put them on high and they were dry. She said, that she felt they were just as waterproof as before. She tried the same with her GorTex socks and they fell apart. Of course, I've yet to see a dryer on the AT so I guess this is a mute subject.. I guess with anything, it is trial by error. However, frozen toes is a high price to pay. I'm pretty limited in my weather here in Northern CA. I would love some snow to try how different ways to keep the feet warm, and dry. The one tip that I kept seeing over and over, was not to have so many layers as it will take away air between the socks.

You'll find dryers along the AT and what I am refering to is membranes, glue, taped seam, etc being adversely affected by the heat of a dryer in ways that you may not see but might affect waterproofness and or breathablity.

I air dry one side of my SealSkins and then turn them inside out and dry the other side. That is a problem when you have a waterproof membrane with fabric on both sides, the air you need to dry them doesn't circulate as easily, if at all.

Youngblood

[Glee]

You'll find dryers along the AT and what I am refering to is membranes, glue, taped seam, etc being adversely affected by the heat of a dryer in ways that you may not see but might affect waterproofness and or breathablity.

I air dry one side of my SealSkins and then turn them inside out and dry the other side. That is a problem when you have a waterproof membrane with fabric on both sides, the air you need to dry them doesn't circulate as easily, if at all.

Youngblood
I agree with ya. I've done my share of just wanting to get something dry and crank up the heat and the damage is done. I know my SealSkinz gloves were wet for over a week coming thru the Smokies. I did everything to try and get them dry. I turned them inside out and hung them out everyday when I got into camp. However, there was little sun and the air just did not do it.

[alalskaman]

I have the sealskinz, the long ones, I like them for canoeing, when mostly one keeps dry but occasionally needs to step into some water - more comfy than big rubber boots. Also good for hiking in cool rain, running shoes dry out after they get wet, meanwhile my feet feel fine in the Sealskinz. But this is Alaska, temps mostly in the 40s or 50s when this is happening. As to winter, you have the issue of water from the inside, and water from the outside. As long as things are dry, my feet are perfectly warm down to the 20's in just polar fleece socks and running shoes. Add some produce bags and a thin liner under the fleece sox, and it is good to zero or a bit below. For the water from outside, goretex running shoes and gaiters, to keep the snow from getting in your shoes and melting. Or if its really wet/sloppy/cold, the Neos overboots. I mostly like the produce bags, sweat a lot into them, but turn them inside out, shake, and they dry quickly, meanwhile your warmth-retaining sox are still dry. And of course the bags weigh very little, so you can take lots of them. They don't last long. Bill

[orangebug]

But the price is right for those produce bags. You could do the same with bread bags.

This is the cheap and easy way to try out VBL.

[Brushy Sage]

...Add some produce bags and a thin liner under the fleece sox, and it is good to zero or a bit below. For the water from outside, goretex running shoes and gaiters, to keep the snow from getting in your shoes and melting. Or if its really wet/sloppy/cold, the Neos overboots. I mostly like the produce bags, sweat a lot into them, but turn them inside out, shake, and they dry quickly, meanwhile your warmth-retaining sox are still dry. And of course the bags weigh very little, so you can take lots of them. They don't last long. Bill



How do you keep the produce bags from getting pulled down into your shoes as you hike. I tried them on a wet/snowy day and they got eaten up by my walking motion, and wound up becoming containers for water that leaked in, rather than barriers to keep it out.

[orangebug]

Foot, liner sock, plastic bag, wool sock, shoe.

The plastic bag should be long enough to extend up your ankle, and the wool sock long enough to go a bit higher. Consider gaiters or elastic at the top to keep the plastic bag shut to keep it VBL.

[Youngblood]

How do you keep the produce bags from getting pulled down into your shoes as you hike. I tried them on a wet/snowy day and they got eaten up by my walking motion, and wound up becoming containers for water that leaked in, rather than barriers to keep it out.

I haven't done a whole lot of walking with the plastic bags so I might not have used it that way enough to really experience the problem, but I don't recall having the shoes eat them. I wear a light weight synthetic sock under the plastic as a liner and tuck the top of the plastic back under the top of this liner. Over that I put on a regular sock. That's probably what you did. The plastic under the regular sock is going to make both the liner and the regular sock slide down much easier. Think maybe it has something to do with the heel slipping excessively on your shoes?

Youngblood

[GolfHiker]

I too am researching Sealskinz, and find these posts most helpful.. My real concern is having warm feet in camp and in my bag on winter hikes.. Feet get cold, sleeping is hard. So my question is about warmth. I have not read anyone commenting on Fleece socks for warmth... I read a little about 200 polar fleece socks, which seem like a good possibility. Any thoughts?:-? thanks.

[Youngblood]

I too am researching Sealskinz, and find these posts most helpful.. My real concern is having warm feet in camp and in my bag on winter hikes.. Feet get cold, sleeping is hard. So my question is about warmth. I have not read anyone commenting on Fleece socks for warmth... I read a little about 200 polar fleece socks, which seem like a good possibility. Any thoughts?:-? thanks.

For sleeping, I usually use liner sock, plastic bag and then fleece sock. This is pretty warm and you can layer as necessary. I have used the Sealskinz to sleep in and they are also warm, I would guess they are equivalent to the sock, plastic bag and fleece sock combo. Thick means warmth, a vapor barrier helps alot and SealSkinz are just reduced efficiency vapor barriers. Beware of sleeping ONLY in hiking socks that have thick and thin parts (like thick heels and toes)... the thin parts are lacking in insulation and result in cold feet when sleeping.

Youngblood

[orangebug]

I've heard many more kudos for down booties than any sort of socks. So far, I've not felt the need.

[SGT Rock]

Mainly I don't hike with these on because they produce too much sweating. I do use them when creek crossing in winter and not for long distances. I will wear them in camp over some liner socks if it really wet. If it is really cold in camp, I wear some Wigwam wool socks under them. I have never worn them to bed.

[Tn Bandit]

I too am researching Sealskinz, and find these posts most helpful.. My real concern is having warm feet in camp and in my bag on winter hikes.. Feet get cold, sleeping is hard. So my question is about warmth. I have not read anyone commenting on Fleece socks for warmth... I read a little about 200 polar fleece socks, which seem like a good possibility. Any thoughts?:-? thanks.
I used Sealskinz this past weekend and they do keep your feet dry but not warm from the snow. I do recommend them, I used a wool sock, sealskinz and a toasty toes in my regular leather boots and did great in 6 hours of snow.
I use down booties to sleep in which is great if you have cold feet.
I bought my sealskinz at the Outfitters in Hot Springs but you should be able to find them online www.danalco.com
Going out today and my sealskinz are going to, thar's sno in them thar hills!
TN Bandit
SMHC
Localhikes.com

[Pencil Pusher]

Good point, down booties are worth their weight in gold while winter camping. Mucking about in thick socks and overboots is a slippery proposition:datz

[GolfHiker]

Great. Now that I have successfully turned this post into a forum on warmth, forgetting Sealskinz, I'm very interested in down booties. Pencil Pusher & others, do you have a favorite brand.... I'm assuming these compress down to nothing. I did see some MH Down Booties @ REI, but they had a rubber sole, which has advantages, but also disadvantages. Thanks for replies..

[Alligator]

Great. Now that I have successfully turned this post into a forum on warmth, forgetting Sealskinz, I'm very interested in down booties. Pencil Pusher & others, do you have a favorite brand.... I'm assuming these compress down to nothing. I did see some MH Down Booties @ REI, but they had a rubber sole, which has advantages, but also disadvantages. Thanks for replies..
It's nice to have booties that you can at least go out of your shelter with, so a solid sole is a good idea IMO.

[Glee]

It's nice to have booties that you can at least go out of your shelter with, so a solid sole is a good idea IMO.


It's nice to have, but I wonder how much do they weight? What is the actual warmth given compared to a setup such as a sealskin sock, wool sock and a VLB over the foot. All three of this setup can be used at any time of the day depending on the weather and trail conditions. However, the Booties, while they might be nice, they can only be worn on dry, cold nights. If there is mud from the night before, then even using them to sleep in your bag is going to take some time to clean them off, unless you also bring crocks to wear as well.