View Full Version : Precooked, then dried pasta?
Different Socks
10-20-2010, 12:28
If pasta is already dry when purchased, how does cooking it, then drying it, then cooking it again save time and fuel?
I just understand the logic behind this. It actually seems redundant.
Toolshed
10-20-2010, 12:35
Think of pasta as dried, hardened uncooked flour, egg and water. It needs to cook to soften it - It needs to absorb water.
When you cook it once, dry it and then later simply reheat it, it absorbs water much faster and softens up much quicker.
You then do not need to boil for 9-11 minutes. Doing this for an overnighter doesn't make sense but doing it for 15 lbs of macaroni for a 2-3 week trip and you start to see how it can become more economical and easier on te etrail.
Different Socks
10-20-2010, 12:45
Think of pasta as dried, hardened uncooked flour, egg and water. It needs to cook to soften it - It needs to absorb water.
When you cook it once, dry it and then later simply reheat it, it absorbs water much faster and softens up much quicker.
You then do not need to boil for 9-11 minutes. Doing this for an overnighter doesn't make sense but doing it for 15 lbs of macaroni for a 2-3 week trip and you start to see how it can become more economical and easier on te etrail.
Ok, I'll try it! Thanks for the reply.
sherrill
10-20-2010, 12:50
Many years ago I worked next to a pasta shop, where Mr. Abruzzi made pasta fresh daily. He then "flash froze" it. Cooking times were very short, even for the tortellini, somewhere in the 2 minute range. Angel hair was insane, something like 30 sec.
I understand that this might be out of range for this topic, but if you could make your own and then freeze it this way it could work for a trip, even if it thawed. We accidentally thawed some ravioli once, but still cooked it for the prescribed 2 minutes, and it was delicious.
I miss that great old man and his pasta. Nothing else has ever touched it.
Dry pasta at the grocery store is not cooked. You have to cook it to eat it. By precooking/draining and drying you can have "instant" pasta that only needs hot water to rehydrate :)
Farr Away
10-20-2010, 15:13
Also, your 'instant' pasta won't taste gluey if you don't drain and rinse it. You've already done that at home, so you can just add enough hot water to rehydrate it on the trail.
garlic08
10-20-2010, 16:34
Is that what Ramen noodles are? I eat them without cooking, so I always assumed they were cooked first then dried.
Rocket Jones
10-20-2010, 16:59
Is that what Ramen noodles are? I eat them without cooking, so I always assumed they were cooked first then dried.
I believe Ramen is either baked or fried before drying.
Stir Fry
10-20-2010, 17:13
Never thought of doing this but it seems like a good idea. How much does it change the weight of the posta. I would also like to knoe can you dry it in the oven at a higher heat like 130 -140 or does it need to be done in a dehydrator at lower temperatures. Another question. Is it posable to buy pasta already cooked and dryed?
Stir Fry, it doesn't alter the weight overall but less fuel used on trail really helps!
And yes, you can oven dry it. Do it on a cookie sheet, stirring often to avoid it clumping.
You can buy a few pastas ready to go but are few and far between. Mostly what you see is Chinese noodles (Lo Mein) that are similar to ramen (cooked/baked though ramen is deep fried.) Sometimes you can find it through emergency prep websites though.
Pedaling Fool
10-20-2010, 17:39
I don't think I'll ever get the concept of dehydrating rice or pasta, just too much trouble. Here's my thoughts on this topic http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64921
Two main concerns:
1. what's getting drained away?? You do have to wonder how much good stuff you're throwing out when you drain the water. I never drain water from my rice/pasta meals.
2. This may save time on trail with cooking, but that's a lot of time at home dehydrating trail meals that could be better spent dehydrating the veggies/jerky and fruits. IMO, it's far easier to just wait the extra few minutes on the trail.
Toolshed
10-20-2010, 17:48
With rice, it is starch that you draining away. At home, I always rinse rice to keep it from clumping. I use instant brown rice on the trail and I assume it was likely already rinsed when it was originally cooked.
Pedaling Fool
10-20-2010, 17:57
That's why I make stews on the trail. Too much cleaning to make traditional rice dishes. It's very good with all the other dehydrated stuff thrown in.
Different Socks
10-20-2010, 19:49
Dry pasta at the grocery store is not cooked. You have to cook it to eat it. By precooking/draining and drying you can have "instant" pasta that only needs hot water to rehydrate :)
My pasta always clumps together. Can you tell me how you cook it and then lay it out on your trays? How do you keep it from sticking to the trays?
If pasta is already dry when purchased, how does cooking it, then drying it, then cooking it again save time and fuel?
I just understand the logic behind this. It actually seems redundant.
Precooking pasta and then redrying it certainly cuts the trail cooking time in half. But of course someone first has to spend twice the trail time at home, cooking, drying, and repackageing it at home.
That's why I use a wood-burning Zip stove on the trail. I have unlimited fuel, so saving the difference between 10 minutes (for precooked) and 20 minutes (un precooked) makes no sense. My overall time is much less, even when I include cleaning my blackened trail pot, which never has offended me, but does many hikers. I grew up in a house that mostly depended on wood stoves. A blackened wood-burning stove pot just triggers fond childhood memories.
Weary
On rice....if one cooks it right you don't drain it. Or rinse it.2 parts water to 1 part rice. Bring water to a boil, add in rice stirring well. Lower the heat to low, put on a lid and let cook for 20 minutes. Turn off heat and let sit for another 5 to 10 minutes and then fluff. And then dry.
As for pasta....most pasta is simply flour(s) and water with riboflavin, thiamin mononitrate andas well folic acid added in to prevent birth defects. Not much to lose when you drain it unlike with veggies.
On drying pasta - line your trays with parchment paper. Toss the pasta on quickly after rinsing, separating as you can. Dry for at least an hour or two and just as the outside starts to harden, start seperating with your fingers gently. Do it too early and you can rip the pasta. Check back every hour after that to un-clump anymore :)
Wise Old Owl
10-20-2010, 22:30
This sums it up... John's on target "quick and unhealthy..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_noodles
Even if you don't add the oil, something has been taken away other than the starch... I realize wiki is targeting fried Ramen, but there isn't much difference between noodles and pasta.
I'm on the same page as John Gault.
Cook pasta, dehydrate, portion out sizes, package, then rehydrate once on the trail! WOW! That may not seem like a lot of work to some hikers but I have never thought of pasta or rice being cooked on the trail as all that time or fuel consuming! Instead of doing all that I simply opt for Lipton meals that are already pre-cooked pasta or rice or choose pasta that's small like tiny shells, orzo, elbows, thin thread rice noodles, Ramen, etc that cook faster than larger pasta. Really, all my trail meals just require placing all ingredients into boiled water and letting sit for a few minutes with the lid on my pot! It can be that simple!
I'm on the same page as John Gault.
Cook pasta, dehydrate, portion out sizes, package, then rehydrate once on the trail! WOW! That may not seem like a lot of work to some hikers but I have never thought of pasta or rice being cooked on the trail as all that time or fuel consuming! Instead of doing all that I simply opt for Lipton meals that are already pre-cooked pasta or rice or choose pasta that's small like tiny shells, orzo, elbows, thin thread rice noodles, Ramen, etc that cook faster than larger pasta. Really, all my trail meals just require placing all ingredients into boiled water and letting sit for a few minutes with the lid on my pot! It can be that simple!
It depends a bit on whether one is on a tight budget or not. I never pay more than a buck a pound for either rice or pasta, often considerably less. Lipton meals provide the same nutrition at 3-5 times the cost. Liptons -- actually Knorr these days -- only adds boullion, salt and spices, which you can add yourself for pennies.
The same cost considerations are involved when comparing quick cooking oatmeal and instant oatmeal. Instant usually costs four or five times more for grinding the oatmeal a bit finer and adding mostly salt and brown sugar -- and an array of chemicals. The real difference in oatmeal cooking times? About 60 seconds.
Weary
I attended a great session on Dehydrating at the Gathering this past weekend. The recommended way to do pasta (or any casserole type thing) is to cook it and mix it up as if ready to be served, then dehydrate it in portions (2 servings for me). That way you just boil water and add to the ziplock, hydrate and eat.
It depends a bit on whether one is on a tight budget or not. I never pay more than a buck a pound for either rice or pasta, often considerably less. Lipton meals provide the same nutrition at 3-5 times the cost. Liptons -- actually Knorr these days -- only adds boullion, salt and spices, which you can add yourself for pennies. Weary
I suppose if pasta with bouillion, salt, and/or spices is appealing to you go for it. Sounds bland and boring trail food to me though. I guess everyone has a different budget, and for sure you are paying dearly for those spices and convenient packaging, but Liptons/Knorrs are .89 cents- $1 each everyday at Wally World depending on the region where you buy them. I saw them on sale in a South Carolina grocery store 3 packages for $2. That's .67 cents each. I bought 42 packages for $14! I THINK that can fit into most hiker's trail budgets. If Boullion and salt are the typical spices one eats then they ARE relatively cheap but other spices can be Extremely expensive if you figure the price out per lb. Ramen's are .15 cents each everyday at Wally Wally World. Heat water. Place Lipton or Ramen in water. Let it sit for a few mins amd your food is cooked. I can't see how that is hard, time or fuel consuming, or expensive! Come on ! How much cheaper do you want to eat? It's not like you are enduring the steep prices of name brand dehydrated backpacking meals! IMO, another GREAT deal I take advantage of at Wally World is the Wild Salmon in, I think, 2.5 oz oz packages, regularly costing .89 cents- $1. That's about $2, or less, per trail dinner for a Lipton side and package of Wild Salmon!
I know Ramen is a staple trailfood. Many find it boring! But, I find there are many inexpensive, easy to prepare, creative, and tasty ways to make it better. For example, two packs of Ramen(about 30- 40 cents), 25 cents of peanut butter, a heaping tablespoon of peanuts or cashews(about 25 cents), about 15 cents worth of green scallions(dried or as I prefer, buying a bunch for about 50 cents, a bunch last me 3-4 trail dinners), and a free packet of soy sauce from a Chinese take-out and a packet of red pepper flakes from a pizza or Italian Restaurant and OILA! dinner on the trail for less than $1. Thai Sesame Noodles! Can be eaten hot or cold.
My overall time is much less, even when I include cleaning my blackened trail pot, which never has offended me, but does many hikers. I grew up in a house that mostly depended on wood stoves. A blackened wood-burning stove pot just triggers fond childhood memories. - Weary
A blackened trail pot is one of those signals to me that someone has spent MANY a night in the woods! I would use it proudly and fondly Weary!
Some time ago, I don't remember when, I likely read a suggestion to boil pasta for 5 minutes, give or take, turn off the heat and let it in set the hot water for another 20 minutes, give or take, before pouring off the water.
It's not often I prepare pasta, but, when I do, I use the method just mentioned. I don't like to expend effort or banked effort unnecessarily especially on electricity or fuel when I have time and can do something else while I wait as most people on the A.T. can.
Does anyone know of a good reason to pour boiling water on impacted areas where revegetation is desirable?
For a quick meal, more energy-effiicient to prepare, requiring less water and the need to dispose of it trailside, consider whole-grain couscous.
I don't question the convenience of Knorr sides. I buy them occasionally when I find them on sale for use when I'm in a rush. But the only valid comparison for a long distance hiker on a tight budget is not the comparison of packages and meals, but the comparison of relative calories.
A pound of pasta contains 1,600 calories. A package of Knorr sides contains 460 calories. Thus it takes 3.5 containers of $0.67- 1.00 Knorr sides to equal the food value of 1 pasta, which typically costs in my experience 0.67 - $1.00.
The comparison is even more lopsided if one hits a grocery store when Knorrs isn't on sale. Then one has to pay around $1.60.
I've found I'm much more likely to find some brand or another of pasta on sale, than Knorr's on sale. Of course the situation will change if every trail town gets a Wallys World, though I hope never get to see that sad situation.
My pasta and rice concoctions essentially are homemade Knorr sides. Like Knorr sides they can be modified into complete meals with the addition of protein. I routinely add tuna, chicken, ham, spam, dried sausages, cheese....
Again the budget hiker has to be alert. Tuna and similar foods in cans tend to be a third of the cost of similar food in pouches.
I don't disagree with much that Dogwood has written. All I'm suggesting is that the choice of food can make a tight budget stretch far more than many low budget hikers realize. There need be no loss of nutrition or flavor. Just the loss of a bit of convenience.
Weary
Appalachian Tater
10-21-2010, 19:43
Ramen is fried.
If you have an Asian market there are dozens of different kinds of rice pasta and it cooks quickly.
I hear you Weary. I'm not debating you. It is cheaper the way you said. I know everyone is in a different financial situation. Personally though, I feel if allotting $2 for a trail dinner is TOO much to spend(break the bank!) than MAYBE I shouldn't be hiking/thru-hiking!
I have come to the sobering conclusion to hike/thru-hike it's easiest when I have resources to expend on my hikes - That includes enough money to eat reasonably well and not have to be overly concerned whether or not I have overspent by 50 cents on a trail meal!
With instant oatmeal, I buy in bulk, usually a 2 lb bag at a time, costing about .69 cents - $1.19 per lb. Not exactly budget destroying! Add something to it to make it more flavorful and up the cals/oz.
I hear you Weary. I'm not debating you. It is cheaper the way you said. I know everyone is in a different financial situation. Personally though, I feel if allotting $2 for a trail dinner is TOO much to spend(break the bank!) than MAYBE I shouldn't be hiking/thru-hiking!
I have come to the sobering conclusion to hike/thru-hike it's easiest when I have resources to expend on my hikes - That includes enough money to eat reasonably well and not have to be overly concerned whether or not I have overspent by 50 cents on a trail meal!
With instant oatmeal, I buy in bulk, usually a 2 lb bag at a time, costing about .69 cents - $1.19 per lb. Not exactly budget destroying! Add something to it to make it more flavorful and up the cals/oz.
I've never seen instant oatmeal in bulk bags, though I'm sure it must be available.
I like to experiment with homemade foods. I find my concoctions are as tasty as supermarket versions, probably healthier, and far more than 50 cents per meal cheaper, both on the trail and off.
I have a variety of hobbies. But those I enjoy most are protecting land from development, building and maintaining trails, and experimenting with low cost, healthy meals.
I had a team of high school kids working on a town land trust trail this afternoon. One student asked my age. When I answered she exclaimed in amazement, "And you're still able to walk!"
I expect all three hobbies help keep it possible.
Weary
It's in bins. You scoop out as much, or as little, as you want, bag it up, write the price code on the bag, and check out.
I also like getting the soup mixes this way and pairing them up with whole grains(millet, polenta, bulghur, etc), pastas(cous cous, etc), instant mashed potatoes, etc or a bit of this or that. For example, in 2 wks I'm heading out to the Channel Islands NP and Catalina Island for some hiking. I've been looking for trail food sales for the past 2 wks. I bought some dehydrated Curry Lentil Soup mix for $2.59/lb; I bought 1 lb. I mixed some of it with plain Idahoan Instant Poatatoes(also purchased at Wally World, 4 oz packages for 42 cents apiece, the plain has no hydrogenated oil - bad stuff!) and added some Butter Buds dehydrated butter flavoring(bought for $1 at a Dollar store, one container lasts many meals) and some dried dill(also bought at a Dollar store for $1, one container adds flavor to many meals). Ouila! You can do other fast cooking rather inexpensive creative meals this way. I use the dehydrated refried beans, pinto beans, black bean soup mix, TVP, corn chowder, dried milks(soy, cow, coconut, etc). The dried shredded coconut is cheap, tastes great, and adds BIG time fat cals to trail mixes, oatmeal, or that Thai Ramen Noodle dish I mentioned earlier. Same with sunflower seeds, sesame seeds, pepitas(pumpkin seed), flax seed, peanuts, hemp seed(hemp protein powder). All of these products are relatively cheap, except for the hemp seed, are dense(compact), and provide excellent cals/oz. They can be added to Knorrs/Liptons to extend the serving sizes(total number of cals), up the cals/oz, and nutrition. To the Lipton Teriyaki Noodles or Teriyaki Rice I'll add peanuts(extra flavor, texture(crunch), and fat cals), shredded dried coconut(adds extra flavor and ups the cals/oz), and a good amt of cheap TVP( for protein, has the texture of ground beef) and perhaps, if I have it, some fresh scallions. You might think about adding some of these ingredients to your pasta dishes!
Ramen is fried.
If you have an Asian market there are dozens of different kinds of rice pasta and it cooks quickly.
The only bad thing about rice pasta is has almost NO protein, where as ramen is wheat based and does.
Confused on this.
Are you thinking bean threads?
I've never seen instant oatmeal in bulk bags, though I'm sure it must be available.
You can make your own pretty easy enough by running rolled oats or quick oats through a blender. That is all it is!
garlic08
10-23-2010, 12:24
You can make your own pretty easy enough by running rolled oats or quick oats through a blender. That is all it is!
I've been confused about terminology, and maybe others are, too. I just now learned that there is a difference between "quick" oats and "instant" oats.
"Quick" oats are a finer grind than "old fashioned", just run through the blender as suggested above. But "instant" oats have salt and sugar added and are packaged as individual servings. So Weary is right--these are not available in bulk. "Quick" oats are readily available in bulk and are roughly the same price as "old fashioned" oats.
All the above are precooked and can be eaten without additional cooking, just like the noodles in the thread subject, so the drift isn't too radical.
Quick oats are 1 cook, rolled oats are 5 minutes. Instant means add water, stir and eat quickly. You can make your own. It doesn't need any salt or sugar added - though both do help the taste of oats quite a bit ;) Just grind them finer than quick!
Btw...good recipes here for the above:
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/00/001009e.cfm
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2010, 20:09
Ok sorry I am still not convinced even after two threads over a year - so let me get this straight... cook the pasta al dente and then dry it? just so its less fuel the second time around?
Rocket Jones
10-24-2010, 20:36
Ok sorry I am still not convinced even after two threads over a year - so let me get this straight... cook the pasta al dente and then dry it? just so its less fuel the second time around?
Less fuel, less "cook" time, less water.
Pasta right out of the box is raw. Treat it like most everything else you would dehydrate and cook it first.
For me, it's easier to toss dehydrated pasta, ground beef and mixed veggies into a freezer bag and let the water rehydrate and heat everything all at once.
If you don't mind cooking pasta on the trail, good for you.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2010, 20:57
still a lot of electricity at home to cook - dry and set it up for the trail - not very green.... So here I am I just cooked one cup of pasta at 212 degrees for 11 minutes and now it's in the dryer - with several bbq sauces and gravies for 5 hours.
Hey I am going to put this to a home test
I can see drying frozen peas for instance, but why go to all that trouble when one could simply buy instant couscous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couscous)?
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2010, 20:59
umm never got past the taste of couscous
Maybe you shop the wrong place? All the couscous I ever ate tasted like wheat.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2010, 21:06
I can't explain it.... to me its like eating stink bugs.
Thanks, I'll try to not remember what you just posted next time I have some.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2010, 21:17
:DSorry......:D
Ok if there is a really good way to make it - and so long as its not bland - how do you like it best?
I think couscous would be nearly as good with venison ragout as brown rice. Add steamed, fresh broccoli and it would be just the kind of thing to prepare and consume in the presence of through hikers who willingly accept whatever Knorr provides.
If you go there, don't forget to call to their attention what they are missing.;)
Maybe you shop the wrong place? All the couscous I ever ate tasted like wheat.
Yep. Something like pasta, unless you overcook it. Then it tastes like paste.
Wise Old Owl
10-24-2010, 23:33
First half is over I have boild and dried the pasta, the weight did not change. 1 cup is still two ounces. What did change is I exchanged a starch for a salt solution in the process. The volume increased by 10 percent, the noodles swelled and shrunk well not as much... stay tuned.
Couscous has
A) Got to be fresh. No leaving around boxes open to get stale!
B) A good quality brand.
C) Properly seasoned. It is after all just plain pasta and sodium free so yes, it will be BLAND :p
D) Don't overdo the water when making it, it is better on the drier side.
E) Use oil when making it. Tastes better.
Wise Old Owl
10-25-2010, 10:21
OK the cooked dried pasta swelled to twice the volume on one cup of boiling water for 5 minutes. so you saved 7 minutes? in the field for a lot of prep at home. I guess this idea is great for alky stoves - not so much for others.
I just got a funny look from my wife that this might be over the top for hiking.
budforester
10-25-2010, 10:54
I cook angel- hair pasta on my alcohol burner: break it small into my solo cup, cover with cold water, heat to rolling boil, and cozy for "a while"... maybe 15 minutes. Flavor, texture are OK for me... I recommend testing at home.
The one thing to remember: on the trail when boiling water for uncooked pasta you deal with starch. With precooked/dehydrated you don't.
7 minutes of boiling time after the water has already come to a boil does add up versus just bringing the water to a boil.
What you save is fuel, weight and pot watching.
Alternatively, you could just turn off your fire and set the timer on your watch while you write in your journal or take care of other business. By not partially preparing your meal beforehand at home and accepting a longer preparation time in the field, you can reduce your fuel requirements, pack weight and postage while preserving your financial resources and freeing up time for other more productive activities.
Alternatively, you could just turn off your fire and set the timer on your watch while you write in your journal or take care of other business which saves time precooking your meal, fuel and weight.
True...but with larger uncooked pasta you run the risk of gluey pasta. Yech.....
Farr Away
10-26-2010, 17:14
The one thing to remember: on the trail when boiling water for uncooked pasta you deal with starch. With precooked/dehydrated you don't.
...
Yup, worth it to me just to not have to deal with the starch/glue issue on trail.
-FA
Readers who dislike glue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten) should consider buying pasta with less glue in it, but, since glue is less expensive, expect to pay more. Otherwise, find a souce for bulk whole wheat instant couscous. It has a lower glycemic index too.
The one thing to remember: on the trail when boiling water for uncooked pasta you deal with starch. With precooked/dehydrated you don't.
7 minutes of boiling time after the water has already come to a boil does add up versus just bringing the water to a boil.
What you save is fuel, weight and pot watching.
Spoken like the chef that you are!
Couscous has
A) Got to be fresh. No leaving around boxes open to get stale!
B) A good quality brand.
C) Properly seasoned. It is after all just plain pasta and sodium free so yes, it will be BLAND :p
D) Don't overdo the water when making it, it is better on the drier side.
E) Use oil when making it. Tastes better.
A woman in the know. All good advice!
To whole wheat cous cous, I add 2 chopped up dried tomatoes, a heaping tablespoonful of pine nuts, EVOO(packet or from a 3 oz. screw cap plastic bottle), a pinch of dried chives or fresh green onion or fresh minced garlic, and some dehydrated black bean, curry lentil, or sweet corn chowder soup for taste.
There is another way to do this which less labor and less fuel intensive.
Take a quantity of dried store bought pasta and cover it with an amount of water that is 4x-6x the volume of the pasta.
Leave it be for 45-60 minutes .
When the pasta is firm but limp and smelling noticably wheaty drain it and then cook it for 2-3 minutes in enough rapidly salted boiling water to cover the pasta for about an inch
Drain and eat
I'm doubtful your suggestion would appeal to many long-distance hikers since few have that much time in camp or patience.
I'm doubtful your suggestion would appeal to many long-distance hikers since few have that much time in camp or patience.
The point being that when you're an hour out from your campsite you can take a couple of minutes to add the water to the doubled gallon sized zip lock bags that are holding the portion of pasta .
Then by the time that you reach your campsite your rehydrated pasta will be 3 minutes away from becoming dinner.