View Full Version : Four day trip for newbies: How about Cosby Knob to Hot Springs?
The Counselor
10-28-2010, 00:45
Planning a trip for May for four fit guys in our 40s. We want to end up in Hot Springs. None of us have been on the AT. We are beginning our learning curve in all ways and by May, hope to be where we need to be physically, gear-wise, etc. Would Cosby Knob Shelter be a good place to start? What is access like at that point? Parking? We prefer not to drive to HS and shuttle back.....
What can you tell me about the difficulty of this part of the trail? Scenery? Water?
Thanks for assisting this newbie!
the "problem" with the route is that Cosby Knob is inside GSNP so it's not right at any sort of trail head. There's a Cosbny Knob Ranger Station about 3 miles away from the shelter.
I've stayed at CKS twice but both times were loop hikes that started at Big Creek. Big Creek is great for parking as one trip was 4 days and the other was 16 days and both times no car problems. I would imagine that the Big Creek Ranger station is more of a remote office type situation like the one at Twentymile where there's parking, there's a building but it's not staffed 24/7.
At Cosby Knob though you're basically up on the AT ridge line through the park. Not sure how the hike up to Low Gap is but it could be steep. The hike from Big Creek to Cosby Knob is a killer. Going up to Low Gap from the CK ranger station also seems like a decent accent especially for the first day but once you're up you're basically on the downward side of the park if you're NOBO. The views are nice. Check out the Mt. Crammer observation tower. I've done the Big Creek to Cosby Shelter hike twice now and both times I was running late and had to skip it.
You have to fill out a hiking permit for GSNP and get reservations if you're staying at Davenport Gap Shelter or Cosby Knob Shelter. There are a few spectacular views of the mountains in there and a nice variety of ecosystems.
After you get to Davenport Gap though I can't help you as it's as far north on the AT as I've been.
Another option would be to do Newfound Gap to Big Creek with an optional trip up to LeConte. The Smokies are powerfully impressive.
As noted above, hiking in the Park has its own restrictions. It's a great place, but if you're not certain of the sort of distance your group can make, it might not be a great choice. It is definitely your best bet for putting together loop hikes, part of which will be on the AT.
The most flexible plan is to park in Hot Springs and hike out for two days, then back for two days. There are quite a few water sources and places to camp, so the distance can be whatever the slowest person in your group can do. You can even split up and just meet back in Hot Springs at the end. (If you've got Verizon, you should have cell service, so you can coordinate as you go along.)
The hiking is pretty much up and down. Some people thinks it's brutal; others think it's a piece of cake. Most think it's in between. It all depends on fitness and whether your gear and footwear choices are working out well for you. The out-and-back plan has the advantage that you can hike four miles a day or you can hike 24 mpd. You don't have to make a wild guess ahead of time.
flemdawg1
10-28-2010, 12:39
Planning a trip for May for four fit guys in our 40s. We want to end up in Hot Springs. None of us have been on the AT. We are beginning our learning curve in all ways and by May, hope to be where we need to be physically, gear-wise, etc. Would Cosby Knob Shelter be a good place to start? What is access like at that point? Parking? We prefer not to drive to HS and shuttle back.....
What can you tell me about the difficulty of this part of the trail? Scenery? Water?
Thanks for assisting this newbie!
Can't park at the Cosby Knob Shelter, but by the Cosby Campground there's plenty of parking there (~3.5 steep miles up to the shelter from there). But getting a shuttle from Hot Springs isn't a really big deal. You just drive there at the appointed time, park your car nearby (usually 100 ft away but very visible), they take you to your dropoff point, and you hike back to town. http://bluffmountain.com/
Chaco Taco
10-28-2010, 22:39
My suggestion would be to start at Standing Bear and go to either Allen Gap or Devil Fork. Gives you great views without the hassle of being in the park. You have more exit points since you guys are newbs. The climb out of Standing Bear is difficult plus you woul dget Max Patch and you get to hike and out of Hot Springs. Im just suggesting this since you guys want great views but will also need some sort of options. Being in the park can be a bit of a pain, esp during the month of May. This is just a suggestion! Good luck in your planning, Regardless of what you do, you guys will have a blast, ENJOY
The Counselor
10-28-2010, 23:09
Chaco tell me why the Park is a pain. I know we would have to use the shelters but are there other things I should know? Thanks to you and everyone here for your good advice.
Chaco Taco
10-28-2010, 23:16
Chaco tell me why the Park is a pain. I know we would have to use the shelters but are there other things I should know? Thanks to you and everyone here for your good advice.
overcrowded. The shelters get really overcrowded with regular sectioners and thruhikers. Im not saying dont do it. Just also thinking about if you guys encountered a ton of rain and decide to bail. It happens. This gives you guys alot more options. The Park is great, dont get me wrong. just thinking about the crowds really. You have more options in terms of camping and shelters outside of the park
Ditto what Chaco Taco said, with an emphasis on the number of possible exit points for the non-Park options. In the Park, altering the plan for which you have a permit for each night of your hike, is a problem, especially that time of year when the shelters will be so crowded, and you're not allowed to camp anywhere else. North of the Park you've got a lot more flexibility.
Digger'02
10-29-2010, 10:13
"i agree with some of what nathaniel and the others have said"
Hot Springs is your best bet, but I would not recomend hiking OUT of there if you are a newbie.
head to Hotsprings, get a shuttle from Bluff Mountian Outiftters to Devils Fork, hike back to Hot Springs. Easy peasie.
Kerosene
10-29-2010, 11:17
I'd get the shuttle to US-23/Sams Gap instead of NC-212/Devil Fork Gap. The 20 miles SOBO into Hot Springs is very easy.
Day 1: Sams Gap to Flint Mountain Shelter (11.2 miles)
Day 2: to Little Laurel Shelter (12.7 miles)
Day 3: to Rich Mountain Firetower (11.4 miles)
Day 4: to Iron Horse Tavern just across the French Broad for a few beers (7.9 miles)
If you're up for more of a challenge, start in Erwin and try to cover the 68 miles to Hot Springs. However, as fit 40-year old newbies I would recommend a shorter hike. Experienced older backpackers can certainly do it in 4 days, and SOBO thru-hikers can probably do it in 2.5-3 days, but you're out for a good time not an endurance test!
Chaco Taco
10-31-2010, 20:40
"i agree with some of what nathaniel and the others have said"
Hot Springs is your best bet, but I would not recomend hiking OUT of there if you are a newbie.
head to Hotsprings, get a shuttle from Bluff Mountian Outiftters to Devils Fork, hike back to Hot Springs. Easy peasie.
Why not hike out of HS? Lots of exit points. My second hike was Standing Bear to Hot Springs, solo. They are in pretty good shape and they will get acclimated pretty quickly. The climb out of Allen Gap is challenging but not ridiculously hard by any means. The reward of hiking out of Allen Gap is incredible. There is stuff in the GSMNP that is so much harder.:)
It seems like they want a bit of a challenge. I mean if you want to get really down to it, do something that throws Carvers to 19 into the mix. That section is the crown jewel of the Southern AT. We just got back today and its our favorite and, Im sure, many others on this sites highly recommended section to do. The Balds, the Humps, Houston Ridge, Overmountain....need I say more?:D
Chaco tell me why the Park is a pain. I know we would have to use the shelters but are there other things I should know? Thanks to you and everyone here for your good advice.
According to regulations you have to camp where you have a permit so you HAVE to get to a shelter or campground. The last time I was in the park in September the shelters were abandoned more or less and we deviated from the plan quite a bit (naughty naughty) but I've hiked in late October when the park is crowded from leaf watchers and the shelters were full up. There was a bit of play as some people were in a shelter who had reservations at other shelters. I don't think it's rare for people to move around a bit and the shelters have some play as far as capacity goes.
But there are just not places to camp between those shelters so you can't decide to hike a four mile day unless there's a shelter there. In general it seems like the shelters are about 7 miles apart so you either do a short 7 miler, a medium 14 miler or a brutal 21 miler. We started some days thinking we could do a long 19 miler and realized that we'd have to stop after 14. Considering that fatigue can hit quick especially if you're not used to the hiking and elevation changes relative newbies might have problems with knowing how much to commit to.
The plus to GSMNP is the bear hangers at every shelter and campground!
If you're going through during thruhiker season I personally would avoid it. I hiked around Springer last April and it was insane. It was cool seeing that culture but I was on the Bartram for most of it and then two days south bound to Springer. I just caught the side glance from it but I passed 200 people in one day between Springer and Neels Gap.
Gray Blazer
11-02-2010, 07:22
Planning a trip for May for four fit guys in our 40s. We want to end up in Hot Springs. None of us have been on the AT. We are beginning our learning curve in all ways and by May, hope to be where we need to be physically, gear-wise, etc. Would Cosby Knob Shelter be a good place to start? What is access like at that point? Parking? We prefer not to drive to HS and shuttle back.....
What can you tell me about the difficulty of this part of the trail? Scenery? Water?
Thanks for assisting this newbie!
I like your plan with a little adjustment perhaps. Park at Cosby Campground early in the day, hike straight up to the AT (and I mean up), but turn left when you hit the AT (unless you are dead set on staying at Cosby Shelter). Visit Mt Cammerrer Tower with good views of the AT going north and hike on down to Davenport Gap shelter (you said you guys are in good shape). There is camping past Davenport Gap. The next day hike up to Snowbird or anywheres past it on to Max Patch. All kinds of camping in between. I wouldn't reccomend the shelter. Next day on to Bluff mountain and then an easy hike into Hot Springs. Good views of Smokies from Snowbird and Max Patch.
The Counselor
11-02-2010, 23:50
Gray - this is how our plan has evolved and I am glad to see someone suggest it - for confidence sake. Yes -we are going to camp one night at Cosby Campground and leave the next morning headed up to the AT via Low Gap Trail. And yes, spend the first night at (or just past) Davenport Gap. That would give us 35 miles to cover to get into HS in three days.
Gray - this is how our plan has evolved and I am glad to see someone suggest it - for confidence sake. Yes -we are going to camp one night at Cosby Campground and leave the next morning headed up to the AT via Low Gap Trail. And yes, spend the first night at (or just past) Davenport Gap. That would give us 35 miles to cover to get into HS in three days.
You are aware that you will have to get reservations at the Davenport Gap Shelter, and that you can't camp anywhere except IN the shelter?
Gray Blazer
11-03-2010, 08:52
You are aware that you will have to get reservations at the Davenport Gap Shelter, and that you can't camp anywhere except IN the shelter?
You're becoming redundant. (See post 3 and 8.)
There is nice camping beyond Davenport Gap.
Chaco Taco
11-03-2010, 15:51
You're becoming redundant. (See post 3 and 8.)
There is nice camping beyond Davenport Gap.
And you cant camp there, its still in the park boundaries
Chaco Taco
11-03-2010, 15:52
And from I40 to Standing Bear there isnt really much unless they were to start up to Snowbird. The first 1/2 mile there is a small campsite and watersource, Painter Branch I think?
Chaco Taco
11-03-2010, 15:55
AND just for the record the actual boundary is at Pigeon RIver. The rangers come in from D Gap and Big Creek. Saw a guy set up along the roads with the BMT and told to pack up. Plus at that time of year there will be Ridgerunners
The Counselor
11-03-2010, 21:24
Thanks for all the feedback. Actually, we do plan to reserve and stay at DG shelter. I was thinking at the time of that post that the shelter might be closer to the park's boundary - to give us a choice to hike beyond the park but, since it apparently is not, we are fine to stay in the shelter that night. Then we can camp freely the next two.
Your plan sounds like a pretty good one. As I said before I haven't done the hike up from the Cosby Ranger Station but both times I've started at Big Creek I've started relatively late in the day and made a half day introductory hike of getting to Cosby Knob Shelter.
That first day should be a killer in terms of climbing but if you start with plenty of sleep, take breaks and know that it's down hill from the shelter on the second day you'll be alright. I really like the idea of starting a hike with a half day especially when it's a climb like that.
Blissful
11-04-2010, 09:39
And you cant camp there, its still in the park boundaries
After the forest road crossing northbound you're out of the park and there is camping I saw for a few miles before you reach I40.
Blissful
11-04-2010, 09:42
I think the trail is fairly tough for northbounders coming out of Standing Bear farm. You have Snowbird mtn, multiple Puds (ups and downs - like 5 of them) and then max patch. A good route but you'll need some time to do it. Even if you are fit, your body is not for backpacking. Need to take time
Chaco Taco
11-04-2010, 11:18
After the forest road crossing northbound you're out of the park and there is camping I saw for a few miles before you reach I40.
Ahh I got ya. That part has always confused me especially when I saw Rangers making a guy pack up. Anyway, thanks for clarifying :D
Gray Blazer
11-04-2010, 12:05
After the forest road crossing northbound you're out of the park and there is camping I saw for a few miles before you reach I40.
Pretty spots on a stream no less.
I'd get the shuttle to US-23/Sams Gap instead of NC-212/Devil Fork Gap. The 20 miles SOBO into Hot Springs is very easy.
Day 1: Sams Gap to Flint Mountain Shelter (11.2 miles)
Day 2: to Little Laurel Shelter (12.7 miles)
Day 3: to Rich Mountain Firetower (11.4 miles)
Day 4: to Iron Horse Tavern just across the French Broad for a few beers (7.9 miles)
If you're up for more of a challenge, start in Erwin and try to cover the 68 miles to Hot Springs. However, as fit 40-year old newbies I would recommend a shorter hike. Experienced older backpackers can certainly do it in 4 days, and SOBO thru-hikers can probably do it in 2.5-3 days, but you're out for a good time not an endurance test!
That's a mighty fine plan, and with the time changing this weekend Sam's Gap would probably be best for sure.
Chaco Taco
11-04-2010, 15:19
I agree the hike south out of Sams to HS is fairly easy