View Full Version : Thoughts on maps/guidebooks?
Jester2000
10-28-2010, 09:59
Came across this on another thread, and didn't want to derail that one:
"I think it's terrible that the only information and maps the FTA offers about the trail must be purchased. It really does nothing to promote the trail to would-be hikers."
Personally, I don't think it's terrible. I don't even think it's surprising or unusual. Any thoughts?
WalkinHome
10-28-2010, 10:10
Ain't no such thing as a "free lunch" LOL. Cartographers got to eat too.
(place a horn starting a horse race here) And they are off!!!!!
Since hikers are cheap there is no real way for the volunteer groups to raise funds other than through map and guide sales. Blaze paint may not take much money to buy but still costs something.
USGS topo maps are free to download. You can print them at Kinko's for a very very small sum. There's an argument that digital distribution should be a part of that but most trail clubs aren't that technically sophisticated. A very nicely done PDF that I could download in a member's only section of a website would be great. I bought the Bartrum Trail guide book for Georgia and the maps were black and white copies and hardish to read. I'd have probably paid more if I could have the clean PDF to print as I saw fit.
Jester2000
10-28-2010, 17:25
Since hikers are cheap there is no real way for the volunteer groups to raise funds other than through map and guide sales. Blaze paint may not take much money to buy but still costs something.
Well, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't know of any major trail non-profit that gives away maps or guidebooks. I don't see why it should be any different for the Florida Trail.
You can get AT strip maps for free, but they're not navigation tools -- they're promotional (which is exactly what you want would-be hikers, but not on-trail hikers, to have).
I think that all of the trail organizations will eventually move in the direction advocated by TheChop. PDF files will be made available for eReader devices, and you'll be able to download & print them yourself. But you'll still have to pay for them.
And that, I think, is as it should be.
erichkopp
10-28-2010, 18:22
Money must be made to support all the work going towards the trail, absolutely, but I think some sort of overview of the trail and trailheads etc should be available online-only or at a more affordable price. It seems that the FTA makes many statements regarding the FT being highly-accessible to almost anyone in Florida, yet not many know about it. The main reason I don't know exactly where many major sections of trail are is because I don't have $100+ to spend on the available maps. I think there must be some middle ground where more available information will equate to more hikers, and ultimately more volunteers. In the above quote (made by myself), I think affordability is the main point I was really trying to make, not so much that info needs to be free. The databook that is also offered really seems to supplement the maps and doesn't seem to be as useful on its own, from what I've seen.
Hopefully in the coming years there will be more info like the guidebooks that are available for other long distance trails.
Spirit Walker
10-28-2010, 19:47
Every long hike I've done, I've purchased whatever guidebooks, databooks and maps are available. I prefer having as much information as possible in hand before setting foot on the trail. I don't consider it a burden, but part of the choice I make to do a long hike. I actually enjoy reading the books and studying the maps, both before I go and when I'm out there. Creating good guides (and even bad ones) takes a lot of time and effort and money. Creating good maps also takes time. I don't begrudge the cost, both because I want to support those who have done so much of the work for me, and because I really enjoy the result of their hard work.
Since hikers are cheap there is no real way for the volunteer groups to raise funds other than through map and guide sales. Blaze paint may not take much money to buy but still costs something.
All true. And all beside the point. Paint for blazing amounts to a tiny fraction of one percent of the cost of creating trails. All wild land trails involve scouting a route, cutting a route, buying tools, recruiting volunteers, bridging boggy areas, posting signs, building signs, buying materials for signs, recruiting volunteer trail maintainers, printing maps, planning trail maintenance, drafting maps, carrying out trail mainenance, often hiring surveyors, often hiring lawyers, .... the real world list is endless.
MATC has only one parttime employee, plus a parttime summer crew to do work that most volunteers are incapable of doing. But our annual budget runs around a quarter million dollars a year.
My tiny town land trust spends mostly an average of $20,000 a year, mostly on trails and trail maintenance.
Weary
I don't have $100+ to spend on the available maps.
$100 of maps for 1500 miles of trail is not that expensive.
You can make a case that maps are not needed for the AT (not my opinion..but, you could make the case. :) )...for any other trail? You'd need maps. The FT is no different. If you don't have the dollars for maps for a hiking trail of this length, then you may want consider a shorter (and less expensive) trail.
Money must be made to support all the work going towards the trail, absolutely, but I think some sort of overview of the trail and trailheads etc should be available online-only or at a more affordable price. ......
There is no magic source of funds for anything these days. There are no magic "they" out there to do anything. A significant budget item for every trail club is the cost of begging for money for trail construction, trail protection, and trail maintenance.
Congress through appropriations to the National Park Service helps a tiny bit. But most of the needed money comes from trail club memberships, and from corporations and individuals that can afford to give more than simple membership dues.
I don't know of any trail organization that is flush with funds and spends heedlessly. We all struggle to make ends meet. To raise the money needed accomplish at least the minimum needed for safe and pleasant trails.
Being human we make mistakes from time to time. But wildland trails are the about the best bargain available in the modern world.
Weary
Jester2000
10-28-2010, 23:48
I don't know of any trail organization that is flush with funds and spends heedlessly.
Billville.
Billville spends money with reckless abandon. Our Silly String budget alone exceeds the entire budgets of the Natchez Trace & Ice Age Trail budgets combined.
Mountain Dog
10-29-2010, 22:48
I buy my maps and trail guides and am happy to do so. That is the least I can do to support the clubs that spend endless hours and effort to keep the trails open.
WalkinHome
10-30-2010, 10:00
Billville.
Billville spends money with reckless abandon. Our Silly String budget alone exceeds the entire budgets of the Natchez Trace & Ice Age Trail budgets combined.
Not to mention the Billville wine tab - oops - too late
I am not a FT hiker, but I have zero problem paying for maps and guidebooks.
For one, this information took time and money to collect and organize.
For another, when the money goes to the trail club (as it usually does when you order from their website) I think it's great.
Also trail building is not free. That's just crazy to think that these organizations just exist in some sort of vacumn where money and funding doesn't exist or isn't needed.
Lastly, even the FT is over 1,000 miles long. If you can't afford $100 for maps and guides, how are can you afford to through hike?
greywolf99
04-17-2011, 13:32
can you direct me to a guide book? are there more than one ? if so which is better
mweinstone
04-17-2011, 13:43
Came across this on another thread, and didn't want to derail that one:
"I think it's terrible that the only information and maps the FTA offers about the trail must be purchased. It really does nothing to promote the trail to would-be hikers."
Personally, I don't think it's terrible. I don't even think it's surprising or unusual. Any thoughts?
never heard of the fta. if my life or 100 million dollars depended on it, i could not guess what it means.
sounds like the poster is questioning the validity of chrageing money for a thing. witch seems weird unless that thing was air or water in the mountains flowing free.
even then im okay with paying for anything. if breathing became a charge and meters were conected to us, i would pay.
as far as would be hikers...dont know if any of them need any one thing to make them or not make them hikers. things make us what we are. not any one thing. unless its god the poster refers to.
my opinion is,...the poster has exsulent spelling, grammer, and punctuation.
WingedMonkey
04-17-2011, 14:05
can you direct me to a guide book? are there more than one ? if so which is better
Are you looking to thru hike the Florida Trail or looking to do sections or loops or side trails? In Florida almost all hiking trails even those not a part of the main trail are maintained and blazed by 18 local Florida Trail Chapters.
So a state park with a few miles or many miles of trail might be blazed orange and covered under a different guide than the ones for a thru hike. And they may or may not branch off from the main corridor.
The Florida Trail Association, with maps and guides is at http://www.floridatrail.org/.
Many of the local clubs also have web sites. You can find contact info on the FTA site.
In addition there is a Hikers Forum called Florida Hikes. http://www.floridahikes.com/
The site is run by Susan Friend, an active member of the FTA and the writer of many of it's guides.
mweinstone
04-17-2011, 14:21
okay florida trail asociation. was guessing federal transportation authority but it diddnt fit.
greywolf99
04-17-2011, 14:29
Are you looking to thru hike the Florida Trail or looking to do sections or loops or side trails? In Florida almost all hiking trails even those not a part of the main trail are maintained and blazed by 18 local Florida Trail Chapters.
So a state park with a few miles or many miles of trail might be blazed orange and covered under a different guide than the ones for a thru hike. And they may or may not branch off from the main corridor.
The Florida Trail Association, with maps and guides is at http://www.floridatrail.org/.
Many of the local clubs also have web sites. You can find contact info on the FTA site.
In addition there is a Hikers Forum called Florida Hikes. http://www.floridahikes.com/
The site is run by Susan Friend, an active member of the FTA and the writer of many of it's guides.
thanks for the heads up - trying to plan a thru hike north to south do you really think i need maps or would a guidebook be enough
WingedMonkey
04-17-2011, 15:05
thanks for the heads up - trying to plan a thru hike north to south do you really think i need maps or would a guidebook be enough
I'm a map addict, so I can't give an unbiased opinion. Only problem I have is they might not be up to date, but they got to sell what's in stock.There is also a free GPS download available on the FTA site.
And one done by a WB member here.
Ok, I finally got my website together, You'll find both the full trail and the trail without the separate loops zipped up in separate zip files. I know the page looks kinda clunky, I'm not much of a web designer, but it gets the job done. Eventually I want to incorporate a page where someone can suggest waypoints via a form on the site. But for now I have my email on the page where they can send in waypoints and corrections. Here is the site: http://www.lilricky.com/FT/
Sandra Friends's book (I referred to her in last post as Susan) The Florida Trail The Official Hiking Guide has trail descriptions and some narrative about towns and stuff and has small maps, don't know how up to date it is, mine is from 2004. Big book but it covers all of Florida
WingedMonkey
04-18-2011, 20:20
The Florida Trail: The Official Hiking Guide
I checked Sandra's site and this is now out of print and she says she is working on an updated one. If you can find one it would be enough to do the trail. Like I said I'm a map freak, but I can understand $100 worth might be a bit much unless you are sure you are going to hike the entire trail.
Also, you will need FTA membership to hike through the Indian Reservation and some of the private and military lands.
eArThworm
04-22-2011, 09:27
thanks for the heads up - trying to plan a thru hike north to south do you really think i need maps or would a guidebook be enough
What you really do need is the most current Data Book. The maps are very useful also. The guidebook, "Florida Trail Companion Guide for Long Distance Hikers " is only $12, and provides good information about trail towns, etc. It's comparable to the ALDHA (or David Miller's) guidebook for the A.T. Be sure to contact the FTA about your hike so you get all the permissions you need, and their trail angel list, etc. And you'll need to get a membership, because the trail crosses a few private lands that are open to FTA members only.
I'm an FTA member and I KNOW the financial difficulties the various trail organizations have. FTA has had to cut way back on staff and everything else. Consider the cost of the maps a donation to a worthy cause. :-)
lilricky
04-22-2011, 10:30
I've been thinking about converting the GPS track and waypoints that I have collected from the many FT hikers that have come to my website, into PDF maps. Not sure how involved it would be, but I'm willing to give it a go.
http://www.lilricky.com/FT
erichkopp
04-23-2011, 19:16
Sounds like that'd be a lot of work, but I know a lot of people would really like it!
Since hikers are cheap there is no real way for the volunteer groups to raise funds other than through map and guide sales. Blaze paint may not take much money to buy but still costs something.
Paint for blazes is an insignificant cost in the overall picture. MATC spends a quarter of a million dollars a year keeping the trail in Maine a pleasant experience for hikers. Go to www.MATC.org for the details. But we spend thousands of dollars annually to hire caretakers for shelter areas.
Additional thusands go for leaders for volunteer trail crews, and we are anticipating spending several million for permanent trail crew housing.