Near total dominance by Kenyans in the marathon

[John B]

Even if you're not a runner, even if your knowledge of marathoning extends no further than a vague connection with a brand of gasoline, and even if you've never once in your life seen a marathon much less ran one, still you gotta be floored by this:


(28-Oct) -- The dominance shown by Kenyan men since the unofficial opening of the fall marathon season in Montreal, Canada, on September 5, has been breathtaking. Of 42 marathons in 24 countries with international elite fields tracked by Race Results Weekly, men from Kenya have won 38 of them, a winning percentage of 90%. Ethiopian men have won the other four.
Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/2010/kenya-1028.php#ixzz13rC4H4W1


As the book "More Fire" points out, we're not even talking about Kenya as a country, what we're talking about here is a relatively small group of tribes located along a fairly narrow section of the Rift Valley. Kinda analogous to, say, the College of the Little Sisters dominating NCAA football year after year.


The NYC marathon is next week. The current world record holder (Ethiopian, 2:04), who has his fair share of critics, going up against his toughest competition in ages. Be there or be square (or at least watch it on universalsports.com

[10-K]

The "impossible" sub-2 hour marathon is close to going the way of the 4 minute mile....

[bpitt]

I've ran one race with kenyans in it. I was flabbergasted from the start. Those dudes can RUN!

[Pedaling Fool]

The "impossible" sub-2 hour marathon is close to going the way of the 4 minute mile....
Anyone know if a female has broken the 4-minute mile barrier?

[jlb2012]

not broken - fastest women's mile is about 4:12

[John B]

I think a Russian chic still holds the record. Something just north of 4:10.

I don't think we'll see a sub 2 marathon. At least not in my life time. That would be a 4:35 average.

[ChinMusic]

Genetics

Sprint = Western Africa
Distance = Eastern Africa

[jhensley]

I don't think we'll see a sub 2 marathon. At least not in my life time. That would be a 4:35 average.

Props to another Lexingtonian. And to believe I once bragged about running below 4:45 on a single mile. Outrageous.

[Pedaling Fool]

Props to another Lexingtonian. And to believe I once bragged about running below 4:45 on a single mile. Outrageous.
That's only ~1 second off the pace of the WR, just do it 25 more times (back-to-back) and you can become rich and famous...Yeah, Just Do It:D

[Spokes]

My girlfriend ran NYC Marathon a couple years ago and noticed all the Kenyans were eating Cream of Wheat cereal at breakfast.

Maybe that's the secret?

[Pedaling Fool]

Genetics

Sprint = Western Africa
Distance = Eastern Africa
Yeap, genetics, not to take away from their superb disciplined training regimen, but genetics is a major factor that one can't ignore. Interesting article by Jon Entine (too much to copy and paste, but really good read).

http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/observer.htm

[Pedaling Fool]

I was reading this article about Gebrselassie and this caught my eye:


"Life is changing a little bit. That's why it's very difficult to produce more long-distance runners from Ethiopia," he says.


"The more good things you have, the less athletes you have. You don't see so much athletes from Addis Ababa (the capital). You don't see so much athletes from the city, most of our athletes they come from the countryside."

With his ambassadorial work, Gebrselassie is doing his best to make sure the conveyor belt of champions continues for a while yet."





I know he's Ethiopian, but you have to wonder if the same thing is happening in Kenya and how that will effect the future of the sport and the chase for the sub 2-hour barrier.

Read More: http://www.edition.cnn.com/2013/06/12/sport/athletics-haile-gebrselassie/index.html



.

[turtle fast]

If you think of it.....Kenya is not a wealthy country and the people do not eat as many processed foods so Cream of Wheat makes sense. As well, the financial possibilities to run the marathon for people whom do come from a poorer nation is a HUGE incentive. (BTW one of my relatives many years ago had run for office in Kenya but had to back off as his running mate was assassinated.)

[T.S.Kobzol]

yeah but how would they compete in the Coney Island Hot Dog Eating Contest?

[quasarr]

I heard a story on NPR about a British runner who traveled to Kenya to learn the secrets of their marathon success. He ends up concluding that the reasons are not secret at all - Kenyans in the Rift Valley often begin running at a young age, look up to runners as sports heroes, and if they are serious, will dedicate literally all of their time to running. No job, just eat, sleep, and run.

http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2012/08/11/running-with-the-kenyans-book

Here's another article that shows how many runners live there

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/28/157503759/kenyan-runners-dash-to-olympic-gold-and-wealth

[Hill Ape]

I'm southern, with the kind of hillbilly drawl that makes it difficult to comment on race without seeing the reactions on peoples' face. I have wondered many times, but have always been hesitant to voice it aloud. Why don't black people backpack? I'm sure there are exceptions, but it is disingenuous to simply ignore the numbers. It is a very under represented demographic. What can we as a community do to attract more diversity into this pastime?

[The Solemates]

i ran a marathon with a backpack on up and down mountains in about 12 hrs a few months ago. does that count for anything?

[hikerboy57]

I'm southern, with the kind of hillbilly drawl that makes it difficult to comment on race without seeing the reactions on peoples' face. I have wondered many times, but have always been hesitant to voice it aloud. Why don't black people backpack? I'm sure there are exceptions, but it is disingenuous to simply ignore the numbers. It is a very under represented demographic. What can we as a community do to attract more diversity into this pastime?
you do see more diversity near the urban areas. although it doesnt have to be, backpacking can be an expensive pastime. ive seen alomst every nationality represented in harriman state park,ny.
funny that hip hop stars promoted north face and timberland,even mountain hardware, so aggressively, although their target market climbs more stairs than mountains

[Pedaling Fool]

i ran a marathon with a backpack on up and down mountains in about 12 hrs a few months ago. does that count for anything?Only if it was under 2 hours.

[Pedaling Fool]

I'm southern, with the kind of hillbilly drawl that makes it difficult to comment on race without seeing the reactions on peoples' face. I have wondered many times, but have always been hesitant to voice it aloud. Why don't black people backpack? I'm sure there are exceptions, but it is disingenuous to simply ignore the numbers. It is a very under represented demographic. What can we as a community do to attract more diversity into this pastime?Plenty of other threads on that, but it's all about culture, not skin color.

[Dogwood]

I'm southern, with the kind of hillbilly drawl that makes it difficult to comment on race without seeing the reactions on peoples' face. I have wondered many times, but have always been hesitant to voice it aloud. Why don't black people backpack? I'm sure there are exceptions, but it is disingenuous to simply ignore the numbers. It is a very under represented demographic. What can we as a community do to attract more diversity into this pastime?

Off topic from the original thought of the thread but certainly worth exploring.

First, dark colored people(Africa American, black, whatever, trying not to come off with the wrong politically incorrect ethnicity description) do backpack just not so much here in the U.S.although I've met a few black thru-hikers. One, Breeze, thru-hiked the AT in 2006. One of the best and funniest personalities I met on the entire trail that yr. It was always good running into Breeze. Blacks are more introduced to other sports/activities such as basketball, football, and baseball in the U.S.. I think blacks, as well as everyone, need to be introduced to nature and the outdoors to a greater degree when they are young. The love and respect of nature needs to be instilled and nurtured in the younger formative yrs. That's why I so appreciate what Oprah has done. We need more of this to reach all ethnicities and races especially in the inner city. I think it will start to gain momentum in the black culture as younger blacks see other blacks involved in hiking and other outdoor activities. I think it also important that all in the hiking community support this by donating gear, funds, and their time introducing a greater percentage of minorities to the outdoors and specifically hiking. Doing this benefits everyone! Sorry for the thread drift.

[MuddyWaters]

What a bunch of hogwash.

I think its absurd to propose to introduce any segment of the population to backpacking.

Or to hiking
Or to fishing
Or to Nascar
Or to basketball
Or to baseball
Or to Golf
Or to tennnis
Or to running
Or to inline skating
Or to racing go karts
Or to racing motocross
Or to skateboarding
Or to bungee jumpin
Or to hang gliding
Or to jet skiing
Or to building sand castles
Or to painting with watercolors
Or to gardening
Or to just about anything.


People have their own interests, and spend time the way they like. There is no need to attempt to educate the poor souls who havent discovered the joy of walking uphill with weights on their back as to what they are missing.

Quite a bit of the black population is in rural communities in the southern US. They have no need to be introduced to nature, they live in it.

To purport that inner city blacks are ignorant of the opportunities for personal growth that the outdoors offers is ridiculous. There are many many black scout troops from inner cities.

I would suggest that the answer, lies in the combination of relative numbers, and affluence, and has little to do with culture or skin color.

The vast majority of white people dont want anything to do with backpacking either, or hasnt anyone noticed.

[Dogwood]

Ummm, are you saying blacks have the same level of support and opportunities that drive interests in ice hockey, backpacking, golf, and tennis as whites in the U.S.? Are you saying blacks, or any ethnicity for that matter, in the inner city have the same oppporrtunities to connect with, appreciate, and be taught to value nature and wilderness as rural people. Take what I said in context with the people and situation I applied it to.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I'm southern, with the kind of hillbilly drawl that makes it difficult to comment on race without seeing the reactions on peoples' face. I have wondered many times, but have always been hesitant to voice it aloud. Why don't black people backpack? I'm sure there are exceptions, but it is disingenuous to simply ignore the numbers. It is a very under represented demographic. What can we as a community do to attract more diversity into this pastime?


Off topic from the original thought of the thread but certainly worth exploring.



Ummm, are you saying blacks have the same level of support and opportunities that drive interests in ice hockey, backpacking, golf, and tennis as whites in the U.S.? Are you saying blacks, or any ethnicity for that matter, in the inner city have the same oppporrtunities to connect with, appreciate, and be taught to value nature and wilderness as rural people. Take what I said in context with the people and situation I applied it to.


This subject has been brought up several times in the past. The most important lesson we learned is that people on this websight (collectively) aren't mature enough to discuss this intelligently.


I've enjoyed this thread so far, lets not hijack it.

[MuddyWaters]

People pursue leisure activities that are most ACCESSIBLE to them, geographically and economically.

You cant partake in something you cant travel to, or afford. That applies to everyone no matter what your skin color.

99.99% (guess) of the population has never, and will never backpack regardless of skin color.

Ive encountered black youth groups on the trail before. Ive encountered black hikers. Ive encountered black hunters, fisherman, you name it.

Not anyones responsibility to tell others what they need to be doing, other than minding their own business.

There are plenty of minority and all-black scout troops from inner cities. To purport they are either ignorant of opportunities, or dont have them is quite condescending and stereotypical.

[atmilkman]

People pursue leisure activities that are most ACCESSIBLE to them, geographically and economically.

You cant partake in something you cant travel to, or afford. That applies to everyone no matter what your skin color.

99.99% (guess) of the population has never, and will never backpack regardless of skin color.

Ive encountered black youth groups on the trail before. Ive encountered black hikers. Ive encountered black hunters, fisherman, you name it.

Not anyones responsibility to tell others what they need to be doing, other than minding their own business.

There are plenty of minority and all-black scout troops from inner cities. To purport they are either ignorant of opportunities, or dont have them is quite condescending and stereotypical.

They even have a black Outlaws motorcycle gang in Detroit.

[Mags]

..and this has to do with marathons, trail running or speed hiking how? :)

Please get back on topic or I will be forced to give yet another charming story of what my wife does to drive me batsh** insane (It's OK; I drive her f'n crazy. :) )

[Pedaling Fool]

U.S. scientists don't publish articles about the potential role of innate variation in athletic performance




http://www.gvsu.edu/gvnow/index.htm?articleId=DF8D860E-D30D-B31C-388FFCF4E5E87EE1

Excerpt:

"The main result was that authors with U.S. addresses were disproportionately underrepresented on papers about the role of innate variation in these traits and athletic performance. The authors also searched NIH and NSF databases for grant proposals solicited or funded from 2000-2012 to determine if the proportion of authors that listed U.S. addresses was associated with funding patterns. NIH did not solicit grant proposals designed to examine these factors in the context of athletic performance and neither NIH nor NSF funded grants designed to directly study these topics.

Lombardo and Emiah attribute the underrepresentation to the combined effects of a lack of government funding and the fact that historical events have produced an ideologically charged atmosphere in the U.S. surrounding the potential influences of innate variation on performance which has led to U.S.-based scientists avoiding studying this controversial topic."

[rocketsocks]

I remember learning in school that people of African decent have a foot structure that allowed them to run faster and jump higher, the teacher also pointed out that certain ethnic groups have a higher bone density, and that they could not float as well as some one with a lower bone density, there by precluding them from becoming elite swimmers, coarse this was thirty plus years ago, perhaps the thinking of the day has changed. I've often wondered if this innate foot structure difference has led to running shoes that now have a certain percentage of drop built in, to level the playing field???

[Pedaling Fool]

I remember learning in school that people of African decent have a foot structure that allowed them to run faster and jump higher, the teacher also pointed out that certain ethnic groups have a higher bone density, and that they could not float as well as some one with a lower bone density, there by precluding them from becoming elite swimmers, coarse this was thirty plus years ago, perhaps the thinking of the day has changed. I've often wondered if this innate foot structure difference has led to running shoes that now have a certain percentage of drop built in, to level the playing field???Probably not true, but clearly it's something in their genetics. But we may never know (some sarcasm) since there are so many PC police to shut down conversation on this topic.:rolleyes:

[rocketsocks]

Probably not true, but clearly it's something in their genetics. But we may never know (some sarcasm) since there are so many PC police to shut down conversation on this topic.:rolleyes:Yep, and I'm being totally dead serious, I know you know that :)...and we can have an intelligent conversation about it and maybe learn somethin' along the way. I think political correctness has somewhat ruined our abilities to communicate effectively and succinctly...and to that I say to all

...Well pardon me all over the place. :p

[Chair-man]

I wonder what would happen if one of these Kenyan marathon runners attempted to break JPD's record?

[Lone Wolf]

I wonder what would happen if one of these Kenyan marathon runners attempted to break JPD's record?

nope. these people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnwIKZhrdt4

[rocketsocks]

nope. these people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnwIKZhrdt4
Amazing 400+ in 48 hours...thoroughly enjoyed that, thanks for postin LW, had no idea!

[Mags]

Probably not true, but clearly it's something in their genetics. But we may never know (some sarcasm) since there are so many PC police to shut down conversation on this topic.:rolleyes:

Not a PC police. Just a low tolerance for topics that have gugatz to do with the purpose of this forum.

Thread closed.