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mykl
11-01-2010, 15:51
I notice a lot of people are very strict about having everything as lite as possible, or even leaving things behind to lighten their loud. And thats all good for those who follow that.
The past 10 years or so, there has been a lot more UL stuff available on the market and ideas to make things yourself to be lite.
I was wondering if there wasn't as much UL stuff out there, would a lot of the UL people still be backpacking? Or would the weight not be worth it to carry?
Thinking back to the 80's and 90's, a lot of stuff was much heavier and you didn't have a lot of choices when it came to weight, for the most part.
Personally, I try to stay as lite as I can, but design, price, durability and comfort are more important to me than ounces.

Torch09
11-01-2010, 16:06
The lighter my pack, (considering I still have all the necessities) the more I enjoy my hike. My first trip, I carried over 50 pounds for 4 days and had a blast. My second trip I had about 30 pounds and I was less tired, which allowed me to hike further and see more.
I doubt too many people dislike hiking but do it just for the challenge of finding their minimum weight.

StubbleJumper
11-01-2010, 16:12
Well, I'd say that there's a fine balance between comfort/safety and weight. I happily shed ounces at the cost of some comfort, but I'm a little more thoughtful about safety (ie, do you bring that extra layer of clothing that you probably won't need...or do you try to spend the night under a dubious poncho-tarp that will probably be ok, if the weather doesn't get too silly).

The best ounces to shed are the ones that sacrifice neither comfort nor safety, but instead just hit your pocket-book. But I would hike even if I had to carry more weight...just it might be fewer miles.

Luddite
11-01-2010, 16:17
In the 80's and 90's it was still possible to use an alcohol stove, you could still chemically treat water, pack less clothing, use a torso-length foam sleeping pad (no NeoAir), use a tarp instead of a tent, and so on, and so forth. The UL thing is more of an idea. I just don't think it was as popular back then until Ray Jardine came around.

"Throw a loaf of bread and a [half] pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir

Raul Perez
11-01-2010, 16:18
didn't most of the UL hikers begin with using various lighter weight common household items (ie gatoraid bottles, beer cans, cat cans, denatured alcohol) and DIY projects like backpacks and clothes. I believe the evolution was there already. Besides most of the UL gear is derived from other industries... isn't Spinnaker from sails?

SouthMark
11-01-2010, 16:19
I probably would not still be backpacking if it were not for lighter gear.At 63 I have knee problems, foot problems and other age related issues. And actually there were light choices 30 years and more ago. I did the Smokies in March 1983 with an 18 lb pack in snow. I had a Sierra Designs frameless pack, not very popular back then.

I bet Grandma Gatewood's duffle bag weighed less than that. I think maybe people back then were just plain tougher and required less luxury gear that todays urbanite thinks he/she needs.

Luddite
11-01-2010, 16:20
Besides most of the UL gear is derived from other industries... isn't Spinnaker from sails?

Good point. Yes, Spinnaker is from sails.

johnnybgood
11-01-2010, 16:28
One thing I know is my gear is not UL by other UL weenie standards but it works for me .

For what it's worth I keep a low volume pack weight by taking little of what I don't need.

hikerboy57
11-01-2010, 17:00
everytime Im planning a trip, it takes me days/weeks to ensure that I'm bringing everything I absolutely cant live without, then I look for all the things I've included that I can live without.I started in the '70s carrying 50 lbs+, now I'm down to app 35 w/water for weeklongs, and did the whites hut to hut with a 2000cu.in w/ no more than 20 lbs.. I would never stop backpackingjust due to weight, but lighter is better.

Luddite
11-01-2010, 17:10
My base weight is about 9 and a half pounds, but one thing I cannot live without is my water filter.

Miner
11-01-2010, 17:19
Back in the early 90's I use to carry more then 50lbs. I loved day hiking. I liked camping. I did not like carrying that much weight to combine both as my body hurt. As I couldn't do very many miles coming from a desk and for an average 2-3day trip, there were too many destinations I wanted to visit but couldn't reach. UL made backpacking more enjoyable and made it easier for me to visit places that I had only read about. I would still backpack if I was still carrying those heavy loads, but I wouldn't be going out as often or traveling as far.

Back in the early days of UL, it wasn't so much exoctic materials as dumping redudant or non used items and looking for lighterweight alternatives like using tarps over tents. Actually people on budgets use to use tarps long before Ray Jardine and other UL gurus. It was the the mainstream gear manufacturers in an effort to sell more and more stuff as more appeared on the scene in the late 70's and 80s that pushed weights up with an ever expanded feature list that you just had to have. I use to fall prey to that type of thinking and my pack weight grew upwards before it started to come down.

TheChop
11-01-2010, 18:05
Gary Snyder told Kerouac about using a poncho as ground cloth/rain coat/jacket back in the 60's.

The problem is the idea of backpacking and especially UL is entirely incompatible with the idea of consumerism. The idea of UL is that I'm going on another hike in a week. What gear can I do without this trip? Whereas the gear manufactures would want you to say "What new gear can I try out this trip?"

I believe back in the 60's, etc. people just dealt with more inconveniences on the trail. They were colder, hotter and more uncomfortable but they had what was necessary to keep them alive.

jesse
11-01-2010, 18:17
...I bet Grandma Gatewood's duffle bag weighed less than that. I think maybe people back then were just plain tougher and required less luxury gear that todays urbanite thinks he/she needs.

I heard she didn't carry food. Went around pan handling. That helps on weight.

garlic08
11-01-2010, 18:27
John Muir would head out with some bread and tea in his jacket pockets and that's about it. Nothing new about UL.

Other than my silnylon Tarptent Contrail and LED headlamp, there's nothing in my pack that hasn't been available for many decades. Oh yeah, the pack itself is silnylon. If not for silnylon, my load would weigh maybe a pound or two more. I've tried spinnaker and Tyvek and don't like it.

My UL gear is much cheaper than the stuff I used decades ago. I paid a lot for a premium down bag, but as a result I have a premium down bag which is worth it. My Tarptent is $200, my pack $80, my pad $20, my shoes $70. My entire AT kit cost $850, including clothing. It's easy enough to spend that on a conventional tent and a sleeping bag at REI.

burntoutphilosopher
11-01-2010, 18:34
whenever i feel tired while hiking i think of the people in the 70's, or my grandfather in fairbanks alaska ...

... i got my start in bushwhacking, real back country stuff and would carry 45 pounds at least...

my trail policy is this:
the gear that you MUST have, buy the lightest you can. but that is to leave some room for luxuries.

... but the more i hike; the greatest luxury of all is a lighter pack !

johnnybgood
11-01-2010, 18:47
... but the more i hike; the greatest luxury of all is a lighter pack !
Spoken like a true philosopher. ;)

Skidsteer
11-01-2010, 18:55
My base weight is about 9 and a half pounds, but one thing I cannot live without is my water filter.

Sure you can; You just won't.

That's cool, I feel the same way about chocolate.

leaftye
11-01-2010, 20:24
Going lighter is nothing new. It takes experience, knowledge and money to get there. I think knowledge is the biggest change. With the easy accessibility to knowledge found on the internet, anyone can find out more about UL techniques and gear. That really helps shorten the learning curve and possibly save money as well since it's possible to make big strides in saving weight in very few steps, even just one.

So...would I still get out there without UL? Yes. In fact I did start the PCT well in the traditional weight class. I was doing fine until I got sick and had my mileage cut back to 6-7 miles. I felt like I could still do double digits if I had a light pack. I already had very light gear in my pack, so I pretty much just had to dump a few (known) luxury items and switch my pack. After that I could do double digits with ease. An example is yesterday. I've gained at least 40 pounds since I started the PCT earlier this year and hadn't stayed in shape, but even with a late start, short winter days and a couple long breaks I was able to walk 16 miles before the sun set. I could do that with a traditional load too, but I'd need a couple more hours.

I suppose I could reduce pack weight even further, but right now my biggest benefit by far would come from losing body fat. Really fat folks know what kind of afflictions come with hiking while quite fat...it's bad in ways I had never imagined. While having a light pack is very nice, I doubt my ankles care if the weight is in my pack or my gut, and it's my ankles that kicked me off the trail this year. It's time to for to UL my body.

Wise Old Owl
11-01-2010, 22:26
We are the children of the heavy burden, we forgive - and walk the trail, lighter in foot and soul.

Wolf - 23000
11-02-2010, 01:12
I notice a lot of people are very strict about having everything as lite as possible, or even leaving things behind to lighten their loud. And thats all good for those who follow that.
The past 10 years or so, there has been a lot more UL stuff available on the market and ideas to make things yourself to be lite.
I was wondering if there wasn't as much UL stuff out there, would a lot of the UL people still be backpacking? Or would the weight not be worth it to carry?
Thinking back to the 80's and 90's, a lot of stuff was much heavier and you didn't have a lot of choices when it came to weight, for the most part.
Personally, I try to stay as lite as I can, but design, price, durability and comfort are more important to me than ounces.

mykl,

I began my backpacking career in 1989. After the shake down period my gear weight was down to under 5 pounds easy. My point is UL has been around longer than what many people think. The fact is most people back then really didn't care about weight like they do now. I've seen people carry 10 pounds of clothes but leave out the sleeping bag to "save weight." I still see it but not to the same extreme as before.

Wolf

sbhikes
11-02-2010, 10:36
Back in the 80s I used a tube tent. In the 90s I used a bed-top mosquito net and hoped it wouldn't rain. When it did rain I was bummed to find out my rain poncho didn't fit over the bed-top mosquito net. These were the things I did to lighten my load back then. I'm happy that I can carry good shelter and a light pack that allows me to get to all the places that used to be too far to get to.

mykl
11-02-2010, 11:44
I started backpacking in the 80's, and back then, it was a lot of innovation to make your pack lighter. These days, going UL is much easier, just go into an outfitter and you'll find it. And with the internet, it's even easier to find UL stuff, get reviews and recommendations from a wider source and buy it. I guess that is what I was getting at more, the availability to just go and buy it now, rather than coming up with ideas (basically by yourself, friends or talking to people on the trail....no internet). For the most part though, whether now or in the past, you need to spend a more money to get UL stuff. And before anyone says that you can get UL gear without spending a lot of money, you still have to like it, and if you get gear you don't like or are not comfortable with, it will effect your trip. That's what I mean by comfort vs ounces vs $.

mykl
11-02-2010, 11:47
Also, the internet makes finding used gear so much easier. In the 80's, you had local garage sales, thrift stores, classified adds and some word of mouth to find used/unwanted gear.

scope
11-02-2010, 12:28
UL backpackers are typically out there more often, so yes, I think they would still be backpacking because that is what they like to do. Its just a matter of doing it so much that the lighter weight makes that much more of a difference to them.

pjkirk
11-02-2010, 12:55
Depends on the person. I've seen a decent number of older UL'ers who wouldn't be able to hike as much (or at all) w/ the loads they previously carried.

Look at somebody like Bill Fornshell, for example (though he is an extreme case both w/ weights carried and ills)

restless
11-02-2010, 12:56
For me, weight is essential but not the sole factor. Like others have mentiones here previously, durability is more important. Not having deep pockets, I can't afford to replace or upgrade gear every year. I do my homework before making any purchase. Plus, the fact that I work as a professional trailbuilder means that the gear I do have gets used hard and often. Some of the best UL products I've used include the ULA P-2 (have had this for 5 years and it's still going strong) and WM sleeping bags. Some things I go old school on: boots (limmers-heavy but indestructible) tent (still like my sub 2lb MegaLite by Black Diamond) and my full length thermarest.

sbhikes
11-02-2010, 13:09
A friend of mine is a licensed cross-cut sawyer. He actually carries a huge cross-cut saw bent over his UL Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus pack. A lot of the people I know use UL gear to make it easier to do trail maintenance. I have carried shovels -- real full-sized shovels -- attached to my G4 pack. Some of this stuff is more durable than people think. And yeah, I know quite a few people for whom UL gear allowed them to restart backpacking, something they gave up long ago.

StubbleJumper
11-02-2010, 16:24
And before anyone says that you can get UL gear without spending a lot of money, you still have to like it, and if you get gear you don't like or are not comfortable with, it will effect your trip. That's what I mean by comfort vs ounces vs $.

You're bang on. I've hiked with plenty of people who would never leave home without their water filter. Personally, my preference is to drink most of my water without filtering or treatment, and carry Aqua Mira as back-up. While I'm happy to carry 3oz of Aquamira instead of a 10oz filter, other people are not necessarily comfortable with that. For them, it's just not the right place to save 7 ounces.

And on occasion, I end up drinking silty water. :rolleyes:

oxxo
11-02-2010, 16:49
"Mighty light is my delight!"....a quote in a trail journal by "Take-five"

pafarmboy
11-02-2010, 20:09
Bottom line is.....noone says heavier is better.

BUT, don't be a burden on the rest of us:

- Hey, can I borrow your filter? Can't scoop from the puddle.
- Yogiing.
- Cramming your arse into an already full shelter cause you dont carry adequate shelter.
- Forcing an S&R cause carrying a cell phone is sacriligious.

Carry want you want. Leave home the rest. Hopefully get a little smarter each time out with what you need/want.

Luddite
11-02-2010, 20:16
Forcing an S&R cause carrying a cell phone is sacriligious.



Carrying a phone might prevent the S, but you would still need the R.

sbhikes
11-02-2010, 23:11
Bottom line is.....noone says heavier is better.

BUT, don't be a burden on the rest of us:

- Hey, can I borrow your filter? Can't scoop from the puddle.
- Yogiing.
- Cramming your arse into an already full shelter cause you dont carry adequate shelter.
- Forcing an S&R cause carrying a cell phone is sacriligious.

Carry want you want. Leave home the rest. Hopefully get a little smarter each time out with what you need/want.
What you are taking about isn't UL hiking. It's stupid hiking. You can carry everything you need to be self-sufficient, safe, warm and dry and still be very light. People who cheat like you've described aren't UL hikers. They are idiots.

Helios
11-02-2010, 23:38
I plan my hike route, then consider what gear to bring. I'm head out UL sometimes, and sometimes I have a few extras in my pack. The weight on my back is not a determining factor at all. It's the urge to get out there. The weight is just something to deal with, like the weather. I certainly don't wait for "good" weather to backpack.

My next trip is Nov 27 - 29. I'll put my gear together a day or two out.

mykl
11-02-2010, 23:54
The weight on my back is not a determining factor at all. It's the urge to get out there. The weight is just something to deal with, like the weather. I certainly don't wait for "good" weather to backpack.


Exactly! Well said.

Mags
11-03-2010, 00:10
What you are taking about isn't UL hiking. It's stupid hiking. You can carry everything you need to be self-sufficient, safe, warm and dry and still be very light. People who cheat like you've described aren't UL hikers. They are idiots.

The word 'mooch' also comes to mind (which rhymes with 'chooch'...which is a word I grew up with that means 'jackass'. Coincidence? I think not! ;))

Miner
11-03-2010, 01:15
I get annoyed whenever I hear someone talking about how they are going UL by leaving some essential gear behind or mailing it ahead. Things like rain gear, shelter, sleeping bag, etc... As Diane said, that isn't UL, thats stupidity.

Wolf - 23000
11-03-2010, 02:00
I get annoyed whenever I hear someone talking about how they are going UL by leaving some essential gear behind or mailing it ahead. Things like rain gear, shelter, sleeping bag, etc... As Diane said, that isn't UL, thats stupidity.

Miner,

What is essential to you may not be essential to everyone else. There are some people that may consider a sleeping bag as essential for example but if you're hiking through southern CA on the PCT in say like May/June is it really needed. Of course not. Most of the time you will be night hiking until late in the evening because it is too hot to hike during the daytime.

An UL hiker is someone who prepared for good and bad whether without the need for assistance.

Wolf

Trailbender
11-03-2010, 08:18
My current pack is heavier than the one I thru hiked with, but I am building a "living" pack. It is the pack I would like if I decided to live on the AT, so it has a few more comfort items, polypro, ect. I still use the ideas I learned for lightening my pack, but a pack you will actually live out of is gonna be heavier.

I am in college at the moment, and don't plan on doing this, but I was actually happy out there. I may decide to do what makes me happy, damn everything else.

garlic08
11-03-2010, 09:46
...What is essential to you may not be essential to everyone else...

Exactly. I was reminded of this as I listened to a presentation at the AZT Rendezvous last month. Slow Ride thru hiked the AZT without a tent, tarp, or shelter of any kind! About 40 nights out, three with some precip (how bad can it be in Arizona?), and he made do. What an adventure, and a great story. Nobody to mooch from out there, and certainly no crowded shelters to wedge into.

I had the beginnings of a thought that he was crazy, but then I remembered I was beta-testing a shelter once, and it broke on the first night of a three-night trip. Did I go home as a prudent person would? No, I really wanted to hike this hike, so stashed the shelter where I could pick it up on my way out and kept going.

That same trip, I packed in a hurry and forgot a few "essentials" like my headlamp, knife, and spoon. Somehow I got by without them. Sleep at night, use twigs as chopsticks...it was a great adventure, to me, one of the best short hikes of my life because of the light load, and I learned something about what's really important for a hike. My pack got quite a bit lighter after that trip.

sbhikes
11-03-2010, 10:25
if you're hiking through southern CA on the PCT in say like May/June is it really needed. Of course not. Most of the time you will be night hiking until late in the evening because it is too hot to hike during the daytime.
Untrue. It's cold at night in So Cal on the PCT. I think that was the coldest part of the trail for me. It also wasn't that hot during the day. I have pictures of us huddled in our sleeping bags during the day at the Cottonwood bridge on the Mojave desert floor. It also wasn't really desert most of the time.

Miner
11-03-2010, 17:03
An UL hiker is someone who prepared for good and bad whether without the need for assistance. This is what UL is about and what I aim for everytime I go out. One should carry all that one needs to be self sufficent and for some people that means only a 5 lbs baseweight. The problem is not everyone is ready to be there and lack the skill and/or the proper gear to do that. One person with the same gear could survive a bad storm while another might die of exposure since they didn't know how to get the most out of the gear they have.


What is essential to you may not be essential to everyone else. Sure, there are people out there with just a good knife could survive in some really harsh weather. But lets be realistic, most people leaving the sort of things that I called essential stuff behind to save weight don't have that skill set and are far from being self sufficient. Hence why I mentioned being annoyed. They give UL a bad rep as some peoples only exposure to UL was some idiot who was mooching off them since they went "UL" and mailed some of their gear ahead to save weight and now aren't prepared for the current conditions. That is what I'm talking about. Not someone who has the skill set to survive with what they have even if it seems lacking to others.


There are some people that may consider a sleeping bag as essential for example but if you're hiking through southern CA on the PCT in say like May/June is it really needed. Of course not. :eek: uhhh... I live in Socal and hike here all the time including a thru-hike of the PCT. That is a really bad idea for most people. The deserts are often cold at night that time of year and the trail actually goes above 9000ft since SoCal actually has several tall mountains. SoCal doesn't always have ideal sunny weather in the late spring that you are implying. I know '02 and '03 seemed to be pretty good years for sunny weather, but the last couple of years have seen snow in late May with at least a few people almost becoming almost hypothermic and needing assistance from others. You should ask Donna in Aqua Dulce about the hiker from 3years ago who called her from 50miles away to come get him since he had mailed his rainjacket ahead to save weight and it was now snowing on him. That didn't go over well. 2010 in particular had exceptionally cold and wet weather that many thru-hikers were not prepared for.

Here are a few first hand stories from the year I thru-hiked the PCT. A rain storm caused a hiker south of Walker Pass to become hypothermic. To save weight, the hiker had mailed their rain gear and shelter ahead to Kennedy Meadows and was soaked to the bone as was all their gear (no pack cover or liner). Fortunately some fisherman had their truck on nearby dirt road and drove the hiker out. I could tell you about the hiker, who after mailing her sleeping bag to Ashland to save weight, found the low temps suddenly dropping and resorted to borrowing an e-blanket and other stuff to stay warm (I've actually heard similar stories about NorCal from hikers in other years like a hiker trying to buy a blanket in Belden after mailing their sleeping bag ahead). Then my favorite, the one about the person hiking with no shelter in southern Oregon who was surprised by it raining of all things. These are examples of what I'm talking about. That isn't going UL. Though since they survived, they do make for some entertaining stories around the campfire if nothing else. ;)

pafarmboy
11-03-2010, 19:55
What you are taking about isn't UL hiking. It's stupid hiking. You can carry everything you need to be self-sufficient, safe, warm and dry and still be very light. People who cheat like you've described aren't UL hikers. They are idiots.

Exactly. That's my point. Are you saying there aren't hikers out there who think they are UL hiking even as they pull the crap I've mentioned?

Let's hear from one person...just one...who can claim they've hiked a reasonable amount of any trail (say 200+ miles) and hasn't met anyone exhibiting any of my 'UL idiot' examples.

pafarmboy
11-03-2010, 20:16
Carrying a phone might prevent the S, but you would still need the R.

No. Yeesh.

Scenario #1

Ring Ring....Hi Honey. I won't be in Atkins til Sunday instead of Friday. (insert excuse here). Love you. Bye. Click.

Scenario #2

I'm Cell Phone Free cause I'm in nature! Plus, I saved 7 ounces off my pack weight! Yippee! Scheduled Friday...no show up...honey calls in Missing Persons report. 24 hour wait. Commence search for CPFDA.

Scenario #3

Starts the same as #2 but DA bums a cell phone off someone who they run into on the trail and scenario #1 prevails.

Mags
11-03-2010, 20:54
Let's hear from one person...just one...who can claim they've hiked a reasonable amount of any trail (say 200+ miles) and hasn't met anyone exhibiting any of my 'UL idiot' examples.

Er..I've met plenty of "idiots" on trails regardless of how much or how little they were carrying. Many of these 'idiots' were carrying way too much and not too little.

(Esp me on my first backpacking trip!!!!)

re: Cell Phones

Must be nice to backpack so close to civilization...you can easily get cell phone reception! :D

Del Q
11-03-2010, 21:17
Less is more. The less I take the more I seem to enjoy my AT Journey. Clearly some "difference between men and boys is the price of their toys" / gear issues here..........super light does cost $$$$.

In the end this about the walking not the gear..........be is 1860, 1960 or 2010. Most including me have gotten caught up in wrong directions materialistically.

Lighter is much better. Its not cold when you are walking.

Mags
11-03-2010, 21:34
.super light does cost $$$$.

I

Not necessarily.

Wolf - 23000
11-04-2010, 01:48
Untrue. It's cold at night in So Cal on the PCT. I think that was the coldest part of the trail for me. It also wasn't that hot during the day. I have pictures of us huddled in our sleeping bags during the day at the Cottonwood bridge on the Mojave desert floor. It also wasn't really desert most of the time.

sbhikes,

I've done all three of my PCT thru-hikes through the southern CA without a sleeping bag. Being cold easy can also depend on if you over dress, the location of your campsite, when you stop to make camp, etc.

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
11-04-2010, 02:10
Less is more. The less I take the more I seem to enjoy my AT Journey. Clearly some "difference between men and boys is the price of their toys" / gear issues here..........super light does cost $$$$.

In the end this about the walking not the gear..........be is 1860, 1960 or 2010. Most including me have gotten caught up in wrong directions materialistically.

Lighter is much better. Its not cold when you are walking.

Del Q,

How much have you hiked??? I'm not sure who told you this stuff but some taught you wrong.

Super light cost less than a hiker carrying 30 pounds on their back. I travel what most people consider UL. Except on the extreme winter hikes, the total price of my gear I use cost me less than what many hikers spent on their backpacks. UL is cheaper by far.

"It's not cold when your are walking." :-?. If your hiking in the winter, don't you think you want to stay a little bit cold hiking to avoid sweating. (Sweat in the winter can cause huge problems). Just a thought.

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
11-04-2010, 03:05
:eek: uhhh... I live in Socal and hike here all the time including a thru-hike of the PCT. That is a really bad idea for most people. The deserts are often cold at night that time of year and the trail actually goes above 9000ft since SoCal actually has several tall mountains. SoCal doesn't always have ideal sunny weather in the late spring that you are implying. I know '02 and '03 seemed to be pretty good years for sunny weather, but the last couple of years have seen snow in late May with at least a few people almost becoming almost hypothermic and needing assistance from others. You should ask Donna in Aqua Dulce about the hiker from 3years ago who called her from 50miles away to come get him since he had mailed his rainjacket ahead to save weight and it was now snowing on him. That didn't go over well. 2010 in particular had exceptionally cold and wet weather that many thru-hikers were not prepared for.

Here are a few first hand stories from the year I thru-hiked the PCT. A rain storm caused a hiker south of Walker Pass to become hypothermic. To save weight, the hiker had mailed their rain gear and shelter ahead to Kennedy Meadows and was soaked to the bone as was all their gear (no pack cover or liner). Fortunately some fisherman had their truck on nearby dirt road and drove the hiker out. I could tell you about the hiker, who after mailing her sleeping bag to Ashland to save weight, found the low temps suddenly dropping and resorted to borrowing an e-blanket and other stuff to stay warm (I've actually heard similar stories about NorCal from hikers in other years like a hiker trying to buy a blanket in Belden after mailing their sleeping bag ahead). Then my favorite, the one about the person hiking with no shelter in southern Oregon who was surprised by it raining of all things. These are examples of what I'm talking about. That isn't going UL. Though since they survived, they do make for some entertaining stories around the campfire if nothing else. ;)

Miner,

I've done the PCT 3 times. I know what it is like. I've been there a few times. Before Walker Pass, the trail is mainly in the desert. I've been hailed/poured a few time during that stretch. To someone that has the skills it is just another day on the trail.

Your example you used are the ... well ... not so knowledgeable hikers. They could also have the same problem if they were carrying 50 pounds on their backs. It is just a matter on their skill level.

Wolf

Del Q
11-04-2010, 07:11
Wolf, gotcha, to clarify, I have spent a good amount of time in the outdoors and VA-VT on the AT, temperatures from 27 below wind chill (0 degrees) to 96 and humid. In the past few years, new fabrics, tents, packs, etc on the market come with a price, as I have fine tuned my gear, that has come at a cost which I am fine with. Each time I save weight, at times significantly.

As you know it is also in what you don't bring. Simple tip I learned, when you come home layout everything that you did not need or use............did not take long to start trimming the "fat" there. For something so simple there is a lot to this from a learning perspective, hiking pace, right and wrong way to walk, etc. Whiteblaze and the hiking community has also taught me a LOT!

As for the cold, I have switched to merino wool tee shirts (also expensive) and unless it is really cold (below 35-40 degrees), this and maybe a wind shirt does the trick. Past few hikes in 90+ degrees was not my favorite, PCT and CDT must be brutal in the desert heat, much prefer colder weather hiking and also for sleeping, cold wins-out.

couscous
11-04-2010, 08:15
I was wondering if there wasn't as much UL stuff out there, would a lot of the UL people still be backpacking? Or would the weight not be worth it to carry?
If I had to carry a 50# pack as several people have mentioned in this thread, I probably wouldn't keep backpacking because it would be too hard on my knees going down hills. I hope this thread gets lots of views as there are many great posts in here!

burntoutphilosopher
11-04-2010, 18:09
del Q, 90 degrees on the PCT is NOTHING compared to 90 degrees in north carolina.
you're talking about ten % humidity in socal dessert... or less.

but the sun feels sometimes like it's sitting right on your shoulder 'hell i am Mr. sun'... every day about 2 PM i would feel like quitting and start hating the trail, but by 3 PM i was myself again. i talked to a few other hikers who had this phenom just because the sun was so strong in that hour.

the benefit of the PCT dessert that i never had on the sections of the AT hiked is, low humidity and a decent breeze (exposed trail) allow you to regulate temp despite the intense sun and higher heat.

on the AT we would swelter in the shelter with stagnant air and 80$ humidity.

leaftye
11-04-2010, 18:39
The humidity may be a big part of why I never thought about hiking in Alabama during the 4 years I lived there. I figured if I was going to be soaked no matter what, I might as well be playing beach volleyball, in the river or down at the Gulf. Now I'm so out of shape that I still get easily soaked on the PCT, but at least when it's warm it only takes a short break to dry almost completely.

mykl
11-04-2010, 20:38
I started this thread without thinking of doing a whole UL thing because of health reasons. It makes a lot of sense for people who wouldn't be able to backpack otherwise. Good stuff....

sbhikes
11-08-2010, 17:18
Wolf, you must be really strong and hot-blooded. It would be down in the 20s many nights for me on the PCT. I didn't meet a single person on the PCT without a sleeping bag in So Cal, although I did meet a guy who claimed he hiked the AT without one.

I've lived in So Cal all my life. It's not even warm enough in the summer for me to sleep at night without a sleeping bag. Heck, I shiver under a down blanket every night at home in the summer. I guess I'm a wimp.

burntoutphilosopher
11-08-2010, 18:57
wolf ... what's your trail name?

i've never seen anyone on the PCT without a sleeping bag. in the 20's you can risk hypothermia for real on the PCT

three times i woke up to a sheet of ice on my pack before fuller ridge this year.

4eyedbuzzard
11-09-2010, 00:01
I notice a lot of people are very strict about having everything as lite as possible, or even leaving things behind to lighten their loud. And thats all good for those who follow that. The past 10 years or so, there has been a lot more UL stuff available on the market and ideas to make things yourself to be lite. . . .Thinking back to the 80's and 90's, a lot of stuff was much heavier and you didn't have a lot of choices when it came to weight, for the most part.
In the 80's and 90's it was still possible to use an alcohol stove, you could still chemically treat water, pack less clothing, use a torso-length foam sleeping pad (no NeoAir), use a tarp instead of a tent, and so on, and so forth. The UL thing is more of an idea. I just don't think it was as popular back then until Ray Jardine came around.
Like others noted, UL techniques have been around a long time. But most people didn't have the skill required given the available gear - and many of us were plain old ignorant and set in our ways. To some degree, technology has made available UL gear that is more suitable / better performing to those of us who don't have the expertise and experience of a Ray Jardine - or his predecessor, Colin Fletcher, or even the hikers here who have the time and resources to do extensive hiking / multiple thru's / etc. and gain that experience and confidence.

I plan my hike route, then consider what gear to bring. I'm head out UL sometimes, and sometimes I have a few extras in my pack. The weight on my back is not a determining factor at all. It's the urge to get out there. The weight is just something to deal with, like the weather. I certainly don't wait for "good" weather to backpack. My next trip is Nov 27 - 29. I'll put my gear together a day or two out.
Exactly! Well said.
But would you wait for bad weather to clear? Or be prepared to turn around and go home if the weather turned worse? Perhaps where you live and regularly hike the weather isn't as severe as it can be elsewhere. There are places, like NH, ME, the Rockies, the Sierras, where that kind of thinking (the weather is just something to "deal with") isn't just going to result in a wet or cold hike - it can literally get you killed. Sometimes, in some places, the weather makes going hiking a really bad decision.
I started this thread without thinking of doing a whole UL thing because of health reasons. It makes a lot of sense for people who wouldn't be able to backpack otherwise. Good stuff....I was wondering if there wasn't as much UL stuff out there, would a lot of the UL people still be backpacking? Or would the weight not be worth it to carry?

Depends on the person. I've seen a decent number of older UL'ers who wouldn't be able to hike as much (or at all) w/ the loads they previously carried.
Who you callin' OLD? :mad: ;) :D

My story along these lines (health/fitness reasons)... Due to three back injuries over the last 7 years with some permanent nerve damage and muscle atrophy in my left leg, I doubt I would be doing much backpacking if more modern UL gear wasn't available. Maybe I'd have figured it out and DIY'd some stuff, but maybe not.

Thinking about it brings back some "heavy" memories... Back in the late '60's as a teen I first hiked on the AT through the Smokeys. Later I hiked the PA/NJ/NY sections and in the Whites a lot, and hiked Springer to Damascus in spring '76. Most of my gear was roughly twice to three times as heavy as comparably performing gear today. 45 lbs was pretty normal. (Funny how those 45 lb loads didn't bother me as much 30 years ago :-?) Back then that Nylon stuff was kind of new and high tech, as were hip belts, and "cotton kills" was a revelation for most new hikers! There was no poly, fleece, etc. We loved our flannel wool shirts, sweaters, and hats! 1lb+ (empty) Svea 123's and Optimus 8R stoves were all the rage, and we coveted the Gerry down vests worn by the rich hikers - and "Continental Tyrolean" waffle stomper boots were how town people knew you were a hiker.

The materials and gear got better performing during the 80's and 90's - but not all that much lighter - until the manufacturers really got serious about materials engineering, and high tech fabrics and Al and Ti made inroads. And to a great degree many of us were a bit ignorant - we just didn't realize that you could go much lighter without sawing the handle off your toothbrush and giving up a lot of comfort - AND safety.

Fast forward to now... with so much more UL gear available, if I want to go really light in the summer I can get down to just over 5lbs with pack, bag, pad, tarp, and stove/pot without really sacrificing much in the way of comfort in camp. Add a few pounds of clothing, map and misc, food and water, and I can still stay well under 15lbs "wet" with 3 days of food and 2 liters of water. That's under 10% of my body weight (actually 8%), which really reduces the stress and makes hiking a lot more enjoyable. This just wasn't possible for most of us even 20 years ago, never mind 40. So yeah, UL can make a huge difference to hikers with health and/or age issues.

Wolf - 23000
11-09-2010, 02:21
wolf ... what's your trail name?

i've never seen anyone on the PCT without a sleeping bag. in the 20's you can risk hypothermia for real on the PCT

three times i woke up to a sheet of ice on my pack before fuller ridge this year.

burntoutphilosopher,

Well my trail name is Wolf. It has been Wolf now for the past 21 years now.

As for hiking without a sleeping bag well I if you re-read my post I was talking about southern CA.

And finally, as you said in the 20's you can risk hypothermia. Well that is true but you can also get hypothermia in 60 degree weather just the same. If you get hypothermia depends mostly on your skill level. I personal have been in a lot worst weather than 20 degrees. If you know what your doing 20 degree weather is not a big deal.

Your best asset is not what you carry on your back. It's your very own mind.

Wolf