View Full Version : Sons and Daughters who have no interest in the outdoors...
Wise Old Owl
11-02-2010, 20:27
I guess I am thick headed and dense, I realize my son really has no interest in the outdoors, camping, fishing,....whatever.
I have done my best to entice him. He even got his Eagle Award as I did, and although we have differences, he appeared to have a good time in scouting. Later only to discover that "his opinion" was opposite and was to appease me. In spite of "Do this for yourself" I said, to build his character and confidence.
Frankly I am disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered about this turn of events, even several years later.
Two months ago I dropped off his backpack and gear, all cleaned up so he could have it nearby if he ever gets the urge.
My life time of preparing him for life, down the drain I feel. Very frustrated. I never saw this coming.
Just ranting I guess, anyone else run into this?
Skidsteer
11-02-2010, 20:31
How old is he?
Same here, my 13 yo son loves hiking (we climbed Mt Lafayette this fall) but not my other 2 kids who won't even go for short day-hikes.
It did not just happen for hiking, but for hockey as well. I just had to let go...
Wrangler88
11-02-2010, 20:40
I am a son who got his Eagle Scout because my father pushed me to do it. I would have quit many times but he wouldn't let me. I only semi enjoyed scouts. I really liked the camping and some other activities but disliked many of the other scouts and activities because I thought they were stupid or childish. I was a Life Scout when I was 12 years old and the only reason it took me until a couple weeks before I turned 18 was that I put it off.
Looking back on it now, my Eagle Scout is one of, if not the best thing I've ever done in life. I owe most of that to my dad. I don't know how old your son is but maybe with time, he'll realize how important scouting and the outdoors was.
I don't get to get out backpacking nearly as much as I wish I could and mainly get my outdoor fix through this website. But I know without scouting I probably wouldn't care about the outdoors near as much. I encourage all parents to sign their children up for scouting. Looking back, it gave me some of the beat experiences of my life; whether I knew it then or not.
I hope your son comes to this realization as well. Just some thoughts.
Feral Bill
11-02-2010, 20:43
I feel for you. My son went through about four year period of not liking the outdoors (except sailing). Now, at 18, he is back at it. Yours may turn around yet. If not, I expect he'll find other constructive things to do.
I know the feeling. My oldest daughter HATED hiking and told me years later that she only did it for me. Oh well. She loves the outdoors but only if she is canoeing, kayaking or sailing. That's ok. I've got another daughter who is now 18 and LOVES backpacking. She's a great hiking partner and has done lots of sections with me. We are leaving Thurs. morning for a section hike, W. Virginia, since she has a couple of days off from school. I'll miss her when she goes off to college next year.
Wise Old Owl
11-02-2010, 21:19
How old is he?
He is now 22.
Lone Wolf
11-02-2010, 21:23
I guess I am thick headed and dense, I realize my son really has no interest in the outdoors, camping, fishing,....whatever.
I have done my best to entice him. He even got his Eagle Award as I did, and although we have differences, he appeared to have a good time in scouting. Later only to discover that "his opinion" was opposite and was to appease me. In spite of "Do this for yourself" I said, to build his character and confidence.
Frankly I am disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered about this turn of events, even several years later.
Two months ago I dropped off his backpack and gear, all cleaned up so he could have it nearby if he ever gets the urge.
My life time of preparing him for life, down the drain I feel. Very frustrated. I never saw this coming.
Just ranting I guess, anyone else run into this?
sounds like you didn't want him to be his own man. shouldn't have tried to mold into what you wanted
Perhaps, Grasshopper, you are just Old Owl, and not yet wise.
Why are you "disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered"? Did you try to prepare him for your life or his? You have your own passions in life - has he found his? If they're different, so be it. My two sons are very differnt from each other, and from me, as it should be, but we all have enough common ground to be able to enjoy each other's company, if not each other's passions.
Perhaps, Grasshopper, you are just Old Owl, and not yet wise.
Why are you "disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered"? Did you try to prepare him for your life or his? You have your own passions in life - has he found his? If they're different, so be it. My two sons are very differnt from each other, and from me, as it should be, but we all have enough common ground to be able to enjoy each other's company, if not each other's passions.
Well said!
Sierra Echo
11-02-2010, 21:37
Well at least WOW paid attention to his kid. My parents didn't have much interest in me. My brother, the athlete and all around goody two shoes, was the one who got all the attention. Back then it didn't bother me because I didn't have any interest in the rest of my family. But sometimes I wonder how things might be different if I had had a better family life.
Wise Old Owl
11-02-2010, 21:47
sounds like you didn't want him to be his own man. shouldn't have tried to mold into what you wanted
Actually 1 night a week and 1 week per year is not a lot to ask for a dad to spend time with a son. He is his own man, just not what anyone thought. - Most of the time I worked my ass off at nights. I spent the quality time as best as I could.
Skidsteer
11-02-2010, 21:50
He is now 22.
Let him make his mark on the world the best way he knows how. If he never goes hiking again, big deal; That's just what you want him to do. He's trying to show his character and confidence by following his own path, which is right.
Wise Old Owl
11-02-2010, 21:54
Perhaps, Grasshopper, you are just Old Owl, and not yet wise.
Why are you "disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered"? Did you try to prepare him for your life or his? You have your own passions in life - has he found his? If they're different, so be it. My two sons are very differnt from each other, and from me, as it should be, but we all have enough common ground to be able to enjoy each other's company, if not each other's passions.
Not really Phreak, WOO is a trail name due to my interest in Raptors - birds of Prey. I can spot them in trees and the air when others can't. As for the rest...
Deanna and I worked very hard together to prepare him for life, School, family, cooking, doing bills. fixing a engine, repairing stuff etc. Can't begin to tell you how badly this all turned out. There's NO common ground or company, and won't be for a long time.
Skidsteer
11-02-2010, 21:59
Not really Phreak, WOO is a trail name due to my interest in Raptors - birds of Prey. I can spot them in trees and the air when others can't. As for the rest...
Deanna and I worked very hard together to prepare him for life, School, family, cooking, doing bills. fixing a engine, repairing stuff etc. Can't begin to tell you how badly this all turned out. There's NO common ground or company, and won't be for a long time.
I don't get it. Is there more going on?
Why get upset that he won't go hiking with you? Take him out to eat or go see a movie, concert, or ballgame or something. Or just sit and talk on the porch.
I went through the same thing with my older son. He's 22 now, but when he was 17 he flatly told me that earning Eagle was "too much work." I cried about it for several days, because I was sure he could do it, and he certainly had the leadership skills. He liked the scout camping trips. He liked hanging out with his friends. He was a fine SPL, in fact. He also served on a campstaff for 6 years. He's a great young man, but the outdoors just doesn't light him up. Even my younger son, now 20, who did earn Eagle and likes the outdoors, is just not into it right now. His plate is full with college, his girlfriend, and with all the opportunities and possibilities of life before him. I was right about their age when I backed off from trail life, too. There were just so many other things that I wanted to do. I started camping again when our boys were small, dragging my husband along kicking and screaming. It's not for him. Now that the boys are older and I don't have so much responsibility at home, I'm back on the trail. And I think that's a very typical life curve for hikers who do the more or less usual things in life including education, career, family, etc. Your son may or may not get back into the outdoors. That's really up to him. Don't mourn what you think he should be doing. Instead, be excited about everything before him and all the things he'll discover about himself. Just stay connected. This is just another phase of parenting. And it's not too bad. I really like it!
Uncle Cranky
11-02-2010, 22:51
I came from a "Scout" family.
I had tree brothers who became Eagles.
I also had an older brother who was a Scout "under achiever" just like me.
I was in for 5 years and became a Life Scout.
And another 3 years in Sea Scouts and never made any rank!
My older brother was a Boy Scout for three years and never made Tenderfoot!!!
Every one of us had a great time no matter what we achieved.
Of the five boys I'm the only one who continued his Scout involvement.
Ive been a Cub Scout Den leader and an ASM with three different Troops.
All together I've been involved for nearly 30 years in Scouting.
I hope the young boys I've been involved with get as much out of Scouting as I did.
My "Eagle" brothers have never continued their Scout involvement and I don't fault them for that.
I had two sons and I made sure they were involved in Scouts hoping they would love the outdoors as much as I do.
My oldest son made First Class and dropped out after a year...said he hated camping.
Was I disappointed...sure...but I also love my son and let him know I wasn't going to make him do something he disliked.
I took my youngest son through the program all the way from Tiger Cubs to Eagle.
Now when I ask if he wants to do a section on the AT he's indifferent.
He could care less if he ever spends another day in the woods.
Am I disappointed...yah...but I also love my son so I don't make a fuss I let him know that's all right I'll go on my own.
A few years ago my oldest boy joined the Army.
He came back on his first leave and asked if I could take him on a mountain adventure.
I was shocked but I gladly took him on a section from Carvers gap to 19E.
He loved it.
On his next leave he wanted to go out again so we did Max Patch to Hot Springs.
He just got out of the Army and Thru hiked the AT this summer...was I disappointed...yah... I wanted to go too!!
I'll just have to wait and see what my youngest son decides to do now.
I made it all the way to Life Scout then school sports and everything else got in the way. The outdoors is a big part of scouting but also to obtain the rank of eagle scout you have got to get the merit badge of personal management, cit. of the world., communitcations, etc..so perhaps he found his niche in one of those other areas and scouting was a bigger part of his life then you think. Scouting is alot more then being in the outdoors.
skinewmexico
11-02-2010, 23:36
sounds like you didn't want him to be his own man. shouldn't have tried to mold into what you wanted
Really. What kind of parent tries to mold their child into the person they think they should be?
Wise Old Owl
11-02-2010, 23:45
I really appreciated all that have posted so far - thanks.
Feral Bill
11-02-2010, 23:46
Really. What kind of parent tries to mold their child into the person they think they should be?
Um? All of us?
Or was that your point?
Trailweaver
11-03-2010, 01:37
I have a daughter, so it's a little different, but I do see some similarities. When I first started reading your post, I thought "That's just like L.!" (My daughter.)
I could never get her interested in scouting, and never, ever in going out into nature. It's "my" thing to do. I was passionate about something else, however, and tried very hard to "nudge" her in that direction. I didn't want to really force her to do it, so I just made the opportunity available - which is what you seem to have done. Your son did the Scout thing to please you, and in the long run, he'll be better for it. As another poster said, he appreciated it later in his life. Your son will probably also appreciate it when he's older.
He's 22. Right now he's interested in other things. Let him be interested in other things. You have to kind of "back off" and let him start to find his own way at this point. You've given him a good set of building blocks for his life, and now you have to step back and see what he does with those blocks.
What happened with my daughter was really "sweet." After I stopped trying to get her interested in what I wanted soooo much for her, I gave her a few years to try out different things on her own. After she had done this, and found her own way to do things, she did come around to the interest I had always had and wanted to share with her. Granted, she's not as passionate about it as I am, but she does appreciate the kind of work that I do, she now knows how to do it, and I have little doubt that she will eventually come to appreciate it more as she grows older. It turned out to be a lesson in love for both of us.
It's going to take a few years. Be patient, keep a level head, and listen to him talk about the things he's interested in. You'll be amazed at what you can learn at this point in your life. ; - )
fredmugs
11-03-2010, 06:47
I suckered my girls. They saw my pics from McAfee Knob and I bet them $10 each they couldn't climb up there and of course they did. Them I took them to Grayson Highlands and they got to see the ponies. Now they want to do some kind of hike with me when I have them during the summer.
nitewalker
11-03-2010, 08:46
I suckered my girls. They saw my pics from McAfee Knob and I bet them $10 each they couldn't climb up there and of course they did. Them I took them to Grayson Highlands and they got to see the ponies. Now they want to do some kind of hike with me when I have them during the summer.
very very smart mr miagi. u can tell them this little story when they are older and have a good laugh over it.:D
berkshirebirder
11-03-2010, 09:04
There's NO common ground or company, and won't be for a long time. --WOO
Yes, there must be more to the story than your son's lack of interest in the outdoors. Is it possible he felt too "molded" and is trying to disengage? Normally that happens during the teen years, but sometimes it happens later.
Is it possible for YOU to show some interest in something your son is doing or wants to do? Maybe that would break the ice and let him know you're interested in his life, even if it doesn't follow the path you hoped it would.
Fiddleback
11-03-2010, 09:05
Since the son doesn't share the father's interest(s), maybe the son has interests that the father can share...
FB
skinewmexico
11-03-2010, 09:29
Um? All of us?
Or was that your point?
Sorry. Forgot to use the sarcasm font.
mister krabs
11-03-2010, 09:37
Chin up Woo. All you can do is do the best you can, try what you know to do and thank heavens that they're not dead or in jail.
You've done a fine job I'm sure, someday he's gonna realize that you'll be dead soon and he better get all the time in with you that he can. I predict that will happen when he's nearing 40.
ebandlam
11-03-2010, 09:49
Wise Old Owl
Please don't fret this.. IMO your son's distancing from the outdoors is not a rebuke of you - rather him trying to be his own man. I am sure that you raised him right.
In my heady (and foolish) youth I rejected everything my parents (and grandparents) stood for. Now at 46, I am looking back at the wisdom of their ways and hope that I can do a better job of convincing my children of this wisdom. I know that my parents loved me and cared for me more than anything else in their lives. I think that you son recognizes this as well.. Give him time to explore what he wants to be.
Wishing you the very best
Tennessee Viking
11-03-2010, 10:05
I guess I am thick headed and dense, I realize my son really has no interest in the outdoors, camping, fishing,....whatever.
I have done my best to entice him. He even got his Eagle Award as I did, and although we have differences, he appeared to have a good time in scouting. Later only to discover that "his opinion" was opposite and was to appease me. In spite of "Do this for yourself" I said, to build his character and confidence.
Frankly I am disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered about this turn of events, even several years later.
Two months ago I dropped off his backpack and gear, all cleaned up so he could have it nearby if he ever gets the urge.
My life time of preparing him for life, down the drain I feel. Very frustrated. I never saw this coming.
Just ranting I guess, anyone else run into this?Take him maintaining especially one with Bob Peoples. Or bring him to the south and see all the waterfalls and 6000 foot mountain scenary.
drastic_quench
11-03-2010, 10:49
I'm inclined to agree with Lone Wolf. You can't push a rope.
BAG "o" TRICKS
11-03-2010, 14:36
I guess I am thick headed and dense, I realize my son really has no interest in the outdoors, camping, fishing,....whatever.
I have done my best to entice him. He even got his Eagle Award as I did, and although we have differences, he appeared to have a good time in scouting. Later only to discover that "his opinion" was opposite and was to appease me. In spite of "Do this for yourself" I said, to build his character and confidence.
Frankly I am disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered about this turn of events, even several years later.
Two months ago I dropped off his backpack and gear, all cleaned up so he could have it nearby if he ever gets the urge.
My life time of preparing him for life, down the drain I feel. Very frustrated. I never saw this coming.
Just ranting I guess, anyone else run into this?
Hang in there Owl. Just because you both were Eagle Scout's doesn't make him want to be in the outdoors hiking, backpacking, camping and fishing. My father was a scout master and my older and younger brothers where both in his scout troop. I wanted nothing to do with being a scout as my father was regimented enough for me. For some reason I liked being a loner, walking to my own beat. My brothers do not hike or camp today but my Dad who is 79 years young still hikes, hunts, and fishes every chance he gets. It is because of my father, grandfather, and a coach who was also was my biology teacher that I learned about and enjoy the outdoors. Just because we as parents may know 'everything about something', doesn't always make us the best teachers. I'm not saying you or others in his life were not good teachers, all I'm saying is that right now maybe he just wants to pursue other interest in 'his life', let him and support him in 'his endeavors'. I feel I’ve done my best to teach my son and daughter about the outdoors. They are both grown and married now and will occasionally hike and camp but they don't and probably won't understand 'my' passion for the outdoors. I say, "to each their own." If you’ve done your best that’s all that matters. Don't second guess yourself or feel frustrated. I believe one day after your son has been out in the ‘reality world’ long enough he 'will realize’ he misses those things that you and many others reading this cherish so much. Your son was very fortunate to have you for a dad. Most kids today don't have parents or should I say a 'parent' who will take the time to show or teach them about anything, let alone the great outdoors. Even if they do 'Lord forbid' if there's no hot showers or electric for all their gadgetry along with a McD's around the corner, well good luck in getting them out. I guess that group can always cyber hike the trail, heck it's better than nothing and they won't have to deal with blistered feet, only calluses’ on their thumbs and rear. Sort of becoming the case with some of the hiker’s I'm seeing out on the trail today.:( For others reading this post, "when was the last time you took a youngster out hiking, camping, or backpacking"? Yet we sit back and wonder why are youth are becoming so obese and our trail family so old? :-? Solution?
I propose a "take the kids hiking day":clap ..., plan one for your area or hiking club :banana
NOTE: If you do happen to find 'one' who is willing, ask them 'very nicely', because they are 'sooooooooo sensitive', if they would mind turning off their cell phone during the hike, yea, good luck on getting them to leave it at home, after all even you can’t ;) and we wonder where 'they' get it.:eek:
flemdawg1
11-03-2010, 15:15
Don't worry WOO, he might come back to it yet. My step-dad dragged me nearly kicking and screaming afew times a year for hunting and fishing from age 8-14. It just never clicked w/ me. It was nearly 20 years later that I once again had any interest in the outdoors.
johnnybgood
11-03-2010, 17:08
Just hear me out on this WOO ; Sounds like your son was trying to make his old man happy for years by doing what you liked.
I mean, if your son has a healthy passion for other things , then you have done the best job you can do... let him live his life.
By getting him involved in scouting and outdoor activities , you have had a positive influence in his life . He will remember and one day thank you for it.
Give yourself a pat on back WOO and move on.
GracefulRoll
11-03-2010, 19:39
I feel like I have the opposite problem.
Growing up, I never had a family that enjoyed camping, backpacking, etc. They were the beach vacation variety that would drive 6 hours to a beach when you look in every direction and see the Blue Ridge Mountains.
One day while living in MA I just grabbed the dog, a tent, loaded up some stuff in a cooler, and went camping, expecting to learn a lot of lessons. The next day when I woke up I climbed nearly to the top of Madison (large dog, boulders, etc. prevented a true summit).
I was hooked.
I always liked hiking around the Blue Ridge parkway, picnics, the scenic views, working in gardens, and never cared if I was covered in dirt. It never occurred to me to spend more time getting into hiking or backpacking.
Unfortunately, by the time I really got into backpacking and got serious about doing long-term things, my parents were well past their adventuresome age. If it didn't involve a hotel, they weren't interested in going anywhere for more than a night. It's sad. :(
There are a lot of other factors as to why I didn't get into backpacking and outdoorsy things earlier, and my circle of friends weren't really the outdoor adventure types (nor was my family, and that had a lot to do with working all the time), but I feel like I missed out on a lot of opportunities.
I wish I had someone that had encouraged this. Maybe not pushed or forced, but just really introduced me to the idea of hiking for days, months, etc. Well, maybe not even that, but just day hiking to summits or just going camping, etc. It's fantastic to be away from everything.
I hope your son comes around, WOO. I'm kind of jealous of him.
Feral Bill
11-03-2010, 20:07
Sorry. Forgot to use the sarcasm font.
NP, I just wasn't sure.
kayak karl
11-03-2010, 20:28
I really appreciated all that have posted so far - thanks.
i found that i had to do what my children WANTED to do as they got older. i showed them the outdoors, but to this day my daughter only jumps to a trip to South Street, my boys like kayaking and stuff at times. this year im going duck hunting. i hate hunting (just boring), but its time with my son and that's priceless.
learn to put your self in their shoes or it will get lonely real quick...... real quick.
Wise Old Owl
11-03-2010, 22:50
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2008_0617Image0015.jpg
Austin a couple of years ago. Taken at Bethany Beach in Delaware on the back bay.
Skidsteer
11-03-2010, 23:01
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2008_0617Image0015.jpg
Austin a couple of years ago. Taken at Bethany Beach in Delaware on the back bay.
Oh. Well there you go.
Just trade kayaks with him. Problem solved. I wouldn't be caught dead in an orange boat either. :D
I was forced to take piano lessons. Well, I wanted them at first but was forced to keep going long past what I would have wanted. When I was finally allowed to quit, I never went near another piano ever again. I forgot how to play. I forgot how to read music.
Then one day I decided I wanted to learn to play the fiddle. I forced myself to remember how to read music. I am so glad I learned to read music as a child. Even though a lot of that knowledge is gone, enough is back to get by.
I play the fiddle, I play the Irish flute and penny whistle and even though I'm not very good, making music brings me much happiness. I'm grateful to my parents for making me take piano lessons. It helped me and enhanced my life.
Let your kid do what he wants. Someday the skills he learned in scouting will prove to have enhanced his life, too. Perhaps he will even get into the outdoors when he starts feeling caged in his cubicle.
Jayboflavin04
11-04-2010, 06:53
I let me son read this thread! He is 9 and has done 2 AT trips,and he says he loves it also. I get him out there when ever time and money allows. I am dreading the day he says he doesnt wanna go, but I expect it to happen girls...school...buddies. Told him that he doesnt have to go just cause i love it. Basically HIKE YOUR OWN HIKE KID!
FWIW,
I did not grow up in an 'outdoors' household. My mom is disabled by MS and my dad doesn't like being outside unless it's perfectly 81 degrees out. I didn't camp or backpack until I was in my early 20's. My love of being outside today doesn't really reflect my 'upbringing' (unless you count the fact that I was allowed to roam around outside/walk to friends housees etc. unsupervised starting at age 5...I guess in the 80's people still allowed kids to do that.)
Lots of things turn out that way. I was not allowed to have animals growing up but now I'm a vet tech! Certainly this was not a nurtured interest.
Some people just aren't into it. There are other ways to bond and other things to do.
Wise Old Owl
11-04-2010, 13:07
Too Funny Skidsteer! Yea nobody prepared me as an empty nester. It just happened.
I hiked the Long Trail last summer with my 18 year old daughter (the middle of my 3 kids) and she was probably more into it than I was. I'm blessed.
Wise Old Owl
11-05-2010, 10:26
Yes Dave you are.
I guess I am thick headed and dense, I realize my son really has no interest in the outdoors, camping, fishing,....whatever.
I have done my best to entice him. He even got his Eagle Award as I did, and although we have differences, he appeared to have a good time in scouting. Later only to discover that "his opinion" was opposite and was to appease me. In spite of "Do this for yourself" I said, to build his character and confidence.
Frankly I am disappointed, disillusioned, and bewildered about this turn of events, even several years later.
Two months ago I dropped off his backpack and gear, all cleaned up so he could have it nearby if he ever gets the urge.
My life time of preparing him for life, down the drain I feel. Very frustrated. I never saw this coming.
Just ranting I guess, anyone else run into this?I don't understand how, as a father, you were not able to sense his disinterest and unfulfillment in regards to outdoor life. As you said, he must have brilliantly convinced you of his enjoyment pursuing his Scouting , etc...in an effort to appease you, however this is something that only yourself could have sensed, not everyone else here:-?. Let your son do as he pleases, maybe he is just a little "overwrought" with the outdoor lifestyle at the moment. Give him time, which may be needed, for his desire to get back out and enjoy these pursuits to return.
GracefulRoll
11-05-2010, 11:51
I don't understand how, as a father, you were not able to sense his disinterest and unfulfillment in regards to outdoor life.
Easy tiger.:( I think you might strike a nerve there and I don't think this is deserved criticism... Also, I don't think this will help him feel any better about the situation.
I think this happens with a lot of parents and just people in general. Some people just think they can convince others of how fun and rewarding something is just because it is that way to themselves.
Best you can do is expose kids to things you enjoy. If they don't enjoy the same, that is not failure. Help them find what they do enjoy.
Who knows, 15 years from now, your son may look back and say, "You know, it was fun to share some of that with Dad". Maybe he'll want to expose his son/daughter to the experience.
An elder gentleman who worked in VisionQuest with me years ago shared his views with me. It had much meaning to me then. His philosophy wasn't that we were immediately changing the juveniles we dealt with, so much as showing them that there was a different way to live than they had previously known. His hope was that somewhere down the road, they would appreciate that fact and change their life for the better.
The same philosophy can be applied to parenting.
Easy tiger.:( I think you might strike a nerve there and I don't think this is deserved criticism... Also, I don't think this will help him feel any better about the situation.
Some people just think they can convince others of how fun and rewarding something is just because it is that way to themselves.It's funny, because your opinion appears to me much more criticizing than mine:rolleyes:.
GracefulRoll
11-05-2010, 12:33
It's funny, because your opinion appears to me much more criticizing than mine:rolleyes:.
Really? Hrmph. Well, agree to disagree here.
gravityman
11-05-2010, 13:22
I don't understand how, as a father, you were not able to sense his disinterest and unfulfillment in regards to outdoor life. snip
Dapper, do you have kids? I ask, because if you do, I'm surprise you haven't seen the ambivalence in your kids when they are doing something they enjoy on day, and then the next day they aren't interested. With a longer goal, I believe all kids will try to quit as they don't haven't understood that 'peak experience' that comes with pursuing a goal through adversity. Kids are very much in the moment, and if it isn't fun that moment, they will want to stop. I think part of our responsibilities as parents is to teach them the rewards are even greater after surmounting the challenges. The hard part is seeing when something has truly lost it's enjoyment for them vs when they just don't want to be doing it 'now.'
Gravity
snip
Dapper, do you have kids? I ask, because if you do, I'm surprise you haven't seen the ambivalence in your kids when they are doing something they enjoy on day, and then the next day they aren't interested. With a longer goal, I believe all kids will try to quit as they don't haven't understood that 'peak experience' that comes with pursuing a goal through adversity. Kids are very much in the moment, and if it isn't fun that moment, they will want to stop. I think part of our responsibilities as parents is to teach them the rewards are even greater after surmounting the challenges. The hard part is seeing when something has truly lost it's enjoyment for them vs when they just don't want to be doing it 'now.'
GravitySnippity snip snip:p I say again, how can someone earn the rank of Eagle Scout and then turn around and say they can't stand anything anymore about the outdoors and all the while the parent is ambivalent to the signs leading up to this decision. Come on, folks? :D Nobody does an about face like that. Something in this story just does not add up:-?. If this is not the case, then he was obviousely pushed too hard, too fast, and for too long to achieve goals that obviousely then were set by someone else and to which he was obviousely opposed to and reluctantly agreed to from the very beginning. Either that or something happened to cause him to be turned off to the outdoor lifestyle. It's not that complicated to comprehend;).
Trailbender
11-05-2010, 16:14
Yeah, some people have no interest in being outdoors. They prefer their safe and cozy life in civilization, not seeing the beauty of a mountain sunrise, or a stream, flowers in bloom. They can't handle the challenges of living in the woods. It's not for everyone.
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2010, 20:57
Well Dapper you did hit a nerve, but its a fair question... There was a time where he was being hen pecked to death by a doting grandmother and everything that was being suggested to him was received in a negative manner... So lets say you take him to cub scouts... (something I didn't do) My wife would have to watch over him to make sure he didn't act out and in the mean time other boys would tease him, and he would get into fights. Later we came to find out he had some handicap issues. There are two kinds of dads out there there are the ones that get involved to modivate and there are the others that use sports, scouting or some organization to babystit. I spent a lot of time figuring out the right troop, he was against it at first, he thought it would be like cubs again, but it was a lot of fun and he kept going back, the boys modivated him to get the badges, he had a great time. After he completed scouts he received some harrassing texts and calls from some of the boys. After a couple of discussions, his memories are of all the things that went wrong or went badly, Reguardless of scouting fishing, etc. Part of the handicap is paranoia, The rest of it should remain out of print. Even though hes now 22 a lot of the behaviors we see is that of 15 year old.
Well Dapper you did hit a nerve, but its a fair question... There was a time where he was being hen pecked to death by a doting grandmother and everything that was being suggested to him was received in a negative manner... So lets say you take him to cub scouts... (something I didn't do) My wife would have to watch over him to make sure he didn't act out and in the mean time other boys would tease him, and he would get into fights. Later we came to find out he had some handicap issues. There are two kinds of dads out there there are the ones that get involved to modivate and there are the others that use sports, scouting or some organization to babystit. I spent a lot of time figuring out the right troop, he was against it at first, he thought it would be like cubs again, but it was a lot of fun and he kept going back, the boys modivated him to get the badges, he had a great time. After he completed scouts he received some harrassing texts and calls from some of the boys. After a couple of discussions, his memories are of all the things that went wrong or went badly, Reguardless of scouting fishing, etc. Part of the handicap is paranoia, The rest of it should remain out of print. Even though hes now 22 a lot of the behaviors we see is that of 15 year old.Well in a sense maybe it would have been best if I didn't post to this thread as it appears I may have offended a few people, yourself included. This was certainly not anything I intended to do. I felt I was simply asking a valid question which was why there were no apparent "cues" as to his possible true feelings and displeasures towards what he was commiting his interests to. It appears now after reading your recent post that possibly he almost could be considered autistic. Anyway, I meant no offense and I wish you both the best.
4eyedbuzzard
11-06-2010, 22:16
I've got 4, two sons 24 and 20, and two daughters 22 and 18, and only my 22 year old daughter likes to hike. The 18 year old daughter likes to fish and may be persuaded into a backcountry fishing trip though. The boys have NO interest beyond car camping despite several backpacking trips while growing up. Oh well. My daughter wants to hike the LT next summer and invited me to come along, even knowing that I'll slow her down, so I shouldn't complain. At least one of them caught the bug.
Like Meatloaf said, "one out of four ain't bad" - or somethin' like that.
Freedom Walker
11-06-2010, 22:22
I go to the outdoors because I need to. Over the years I have camped/hiked a few times a year. Then I had a very serious operation almost two years ago which helped me overcome a disease that kept me from getting out there like I wanted to. Now I go because I feel normal there. As a 22 year man, he may not need or want it now. But there may come a time when he will remember how he was able to escape the rigors of life if only for weekend. For me, life slows down when I hike, camp. MhO
Blissful
11-06-2010, 22:50
My son hiked the AT with me in '07. A year ago he just walked out of our house and our lives (he is now 20). Didn't tell us he was leaving. Just left everything (even his treasures). He dropped out of college. He has a hard time keeping a job. He lived in his car a while (even now we aren't certain where he is living, though he does have a part time job we think). We leave him messages every once in a while on his phone, telling him we love him and are thinking of him. He does not call back. He will not answer his phone (though I did have a good talk with him on his birthday in September while I was on the trail). With the young and older men I have talked to while I was on the trail, this seems to be a phase. They need to find out for themselves who they are and what they want to be and do. We did the best we could for him. Now we have to trust God and trust that those things we and others taught will come to some manner of fruit in his life in the way that is best for him. It's all we can do. That's not to say I don't cry about it and the way he chooses right now not to have anything to do with us or involve us in his life. It hurts. But I will wait and hope that one day he will come to my door and say - hey Mom, I miss you. Let's go for a hike. Or whatever. And I'll come running.
GracefulRoll
11-06-2010, 22:51
Well in a sense maybe it would have been best if I didn't post to this thread as it appears I may have offended a few people, yourself included. This was certainly not anything I intended to do. I felt I was simply asking a valid question which was why there were no apparent "cues" as to his possible true feelings and displeasures towards what he was commiting his interests to. It appears now after reading your recent post that possibly he almost could be considered autistic. Anyway, I meant no offense and I wish you both the best.
I think it was really just how you said you couldn't understand how him AS A FATHER wouldn't recognize it.
I see your point, but when you question someone's skills as a parent when they are already questioning what they did or could have done differently, it may strike the wrong nerve. Salt in the wound is how I would feel if someone said that to me.
I think it was really just how you said you couldn't understand how him AS A FATHER wouldn't recognize it.
I see your point, but when you question someone's skills as a parent when they are already questioning what they did or could have done differently, it may strike the wrong nerve. Salt in the wound is how I would feel if someone said that to me.Well that is how you read into it so I can understand that:).
GracefulRoll
11-06-2010, 23:18
Well that is how you read into it so I can understand that:).
I quote: "I don't understand how, as a father, you were not able to sense his disinterest and unfulfillment in regards to outdoor life."
Seemed pretty straightforward? I just felt it was a bit harsh.
Anyway, those are my two cents and I rest my case.
I quote: "I don't understand how, as a father, you were not able to sense his disinterest and unfulfillment in regards to outdoor life."
Seemed pretty straightforward? I just felt it was a bit harsh.
Anyway, those are my two cents and I rest my case.It was straight forward. Personally I feel this is an inflammatory type of thread in the sense that anyone posting a response is susceptible to a flaming for posting something/thoughts considered to be too "harsh", too critical, etc... as someones role as a parent or their family is the subject of the discussion, which can quickly go South and be considered (such as someone like yourself) to be too judgemental, or in your own description, too "harsh", insensitive, etc... and also that maybe was too personal to post in a public forum to begin with, do to one easily being offended do to it being about their own personal family. He answered my question in his most recent post by elaborating more about his son's upbringing and how his son may have (which to me sounds like) "special needs". He also shed light on the fact that he was not always present all of the time for his son's activities. This to me explains someone not always being able to sense someones disinterest in their activities. Maybe in the future try to work on not being so "emotionally sensitive":-?.
My son will hike with me, but he wouldn't go out for his own enjoyment.
We're all different, and that's a good thing.
Maybe he'll make money instead of miles :).
I always liked hiking around the Blue Ridge parkway, picnics, the scenic views, working in gardens, and never cared if I was covered in dirt. It never occurred to me to spend more time getting into hiking or backpacking.
Unfortunately, by the time I really got into backpacking and got serious about doing long-term things, my parents were well past their adventuresome age. If it didn't involve a hotel, they weren't interested in going anywhere for more than a night. It's sad. :(
There are a lot of other factors as to why I didn't get into backpacking and outdoorsy things earlier, and my circle of friends weren't really the outdoor adventure types (nor was my family, and that had a lot to do with working all the time), but I feel like I missed out on a lot of opportunities.
I wish I had someone that had encouraged this. Maybe not pushed or forced, but just really introduced me to the idea of hiking for days, months, etc. Well, maybe not even that, but just day hiking to summits or just going camping, etc.
Well I guess if you still have your health and can get out and hike and backpack, then that is a blessing that one ought to not overlook, as many of us in our middle to later years are losing or have lost some or all of our ability to still be able to get out there and be able to really physically challenge ourselves, especially on a continuous daily basis. Discovering things you enjoy to do in your later years can be even more rewarding a lot of the times, as sometimes you will appreciate them more. I guess it is all how you look at it.
will1972
11-07-2010, 01:52
Who really cares about the whole Eagle scout thing? I loved the introduction, but the politics of the Boy Scouts is too much these days. I have two cousins, who both earned the Eagle. I dropped out of scouts when I was 14. Now who do you think is the outdoorsman? Not every scout likes the the whole outdoors thing, my parents were not into camping and hiking yet I have done these things since I could tie up laces on a pair of boots. Why be disappointed let people be themselves, I was in a rival troop from my cousins, our troop won every contest between troops. Yet something was always missing and I found it on my own with other friends away from scouting, and believe you me we certainly had more respect for nature than the example of most of the scouts that we passed along the way. Or for that matter the ones that I pass on the trail today. Like I said most would be better off if they spent the time one on one with their children than the scout leaders who are such experts about the wilderness, that they forget to let the kids learn about what is important. About the respect and beauty of becoming, if just for a moment one with nature. The groundwork was laid if it's something he truly enjoys he will come back to it. No worries, but scouting is not the barometer of a nature lover. Leaving scouts was best for me because it taught me that life is not a competition to see who is best but it's much more personal to each person, not someone else idea about what someone should be. I don't have anything left from those days, I found better gear, smarter ways to do things. And above all, when my daughter left scouts she opened up to the outdoors. Today she is the one who pushes me to get on the trail and I'm proud of what she has become as a young adult. We really started hitting the trails and honestly she was so much happier without the structure of the group. And I can bet you that she knows more than a lot of Eagles about nature. But if she chose to stay out of the woods I could respect that too. She is my daughter after all. And I was disappointed when she quit. But that was the exact thing she needed to do to truly find what she liked about the outdoors. Reminds me of a coach who's son quit playing sports even though he was a star athlete. He said it felt like a job and he had no love of the game. I just think he was pushed too much, I remember when he was the first person on the field and the last to leave. Hike your own hike seems like the best advise, even in life too.
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2010, 12:49
Will 1972 I will answer your question
When boys are developing into men there are few tools of education or achievement. Lets see, sports, scouting, christian organizations, and your dad are the few sources of learning to be a man. Scouting doesn't teach survival, it lends itself to young men imparting knowledge on each other of leadership. If you see a troup where the dads are doing all the work and the boys are playing game boys in the tents - that's not scouting. And with that the subtle message of how to lead a group of pleople isn't there. The quality of the boys, the troup, the leadership says a lot about a troup and scouting is dependent on good leadership. The outdoors is an avenue to keeping the boys energized and interested in something good to do. Some are still into sports and thats fine, others are there because they weren't into sports and that's where my son fits in. If it wasn't a fit for you that doesn't mean you won't be a leader. I just feel that folks forget that in order for you to get something in return you need to put something into it. My son lost interest in all outdoor activities - and me. It had little to do with our participitation in scouting
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2010, 13:14
I hate what I just wrote... my opologies to everyone.
mister krabs
11-07-2010, 16:39
I hate what I just wrote... my opologies to everyone.
Nothing wrong with what you wrote, stop beating yourself up.
I hate golf, my dad took me to play, seems like every weekend growing up. I can play OK, but can't stand the game to this day. I still feel like I was forced to do something that I wasn't very good at and didn't have any interest in.
When people ask me if I play golf, the answer is,"only with my dad." It's true. I'll play every couple of years with him as he lives out of town. I didn't play with him for years, but I'm going on 40 and he'll be dead too soon. I now do it every chance I get. He has gotten over his disappointment that I don't like golf, but he loves it when I ask him to play.
At some point your son will realize that life's too short. That's when he will come to you and say, "let's go for a hike."
Feral Bill
11-07-2010, 17:08
I hate what I just wrote... my opologies to everyone.
At worst you ramled a bit. Your point, that in scouting the outdoors is a means to a greater end is clear. The lack of oppotunities for boys to learn to be men is a big problem.
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2010, 20:56
Since the son doesn't share the father's interest(s), maybe the son has interests that the father can share...
FB
OK picture this - The last three years, (he left last year) can you picture this white haired 49 year old dad playing HALO and sometimes winning?
XBOX RULES!
johnnybgood
11-07-2010, 21:01
Sorry ! I'm clueless to what your talking about. XBOX game I'm assuming ?
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2010, 21:05
My son hiked the AT with me in '07. A year ago he just walked out of our house and our lives (he is now 20). Didn't tell us he was leaving. Just left everything (even his treasures). He dropped out of college. He has a hard time keeping a job. He lived in his car a while (even now we aren't certain where he is living, though he does have a part time job we think). We leave him messages every once in a while on his phone, telling him we love him and are thinking of him. He does not call back. He will not answer his phone (though I did have a good talk with him on his birthday in September while I was on the trail). With the young and older men I have talked to while I was on the trail, this seems to be a phase. They need to find out for themselves who they are and what they want to be and do. We did the best we could for him. Now we have to trust God and trust that those things we and others taught will come to some manner of fruit in his life in the way that is best for him. It's all we can do. That's not to say I don't cry about it and the way he chooses right now not to have anything to do with us or involve us in his life. It hurts. But I will wait and hope that one day he will come to my door and say - hey Mom, I miss you. Let's go for a hike. Or whatever. And I'll come running.
Blissful, over the years and reading your posts I kept thinking we had a lot in common, I never knew how much, now I see it's really true - my heart goes out to you, Austin dropped college and left last year to Ohio and ended up with almost the same outcome.
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2010, 21:11
Sorry ! I'm clueless to what your talking about. XBOX game I'm assuming ?
xbox is the name of the graphics computer Halo is the game.
http://halo.xbox.com/en-us
And that's what teens do all day, now adays... play video games.
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=282893229562&id=ee27f85c0d80188eb56b7b7b0a608465&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.shockya.com%2fnews%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2fhalo_master_chief.jpg
buff_jeff
11-07-2010, 21:53
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/2008_0617Image0015.jpg
Austin a couple of years ago. Taken at Bethany Beach in Delaware on the back bay.
Wow, I recognized that spot right away. Salt Pond, near the peninsula, with Grotto Pizza in the background???
buff_jeff
11-07-2010, 21:58
As to the original topic, I think you need to compromise, ultimately. If you want to have a good relationship with your son, it can't be all about your hobbies. I know it's tough but you need to at least try to express interest in what he is involved in. Outdoors stuff just might not be for him at this point in his life.
When I was little I couldn't stand the boy scouts, soccer, or anything else my parents tried to push me into. One day in college I got the urge to hike, and I haven't looked back. Over the last 4 years I hiked over 1,300 miles of the trail with my dad.
Wise Old Owl
11-07-2010, 22:06
Wow, I recognized that spot right away. Salt Pond, near the peninsula, with Grotto Pizza in the background???
Right on! yes its the Salt Ponds Boat Launch area. good eyes!
Compromise? maybe but its tough to do anything when he's 900 miles away.
buff_jeff
11-07-2010, 22:17
Right on! yes its the Salt Ponds Boat Launch area. good eyes!
Compromise? maybe but its tough to do anything when he's 900 miles away.
Nice! I've done a lot of kayaking down there; awesome place. I usually start off double bridges road and then head down that way.
You say it's tough to compromise when he's 900 miles away, but how would you expect to hike or do other outdoors things with him then anyway?
4eyedbuzzard
11-07-2010, 22:19
Give him some time and space WOO. He's got to figure out some things on his own - including his adult to adult relationship with you. As parents, we do our best, but there's no manual. And even if there was, every person (child) is unique, and there's no guaranty of outcome regardless of our input (like enjoying hiking). We try to teach them right from wrong, instill some ethics and discipline, and keep a roof over their heads and food in their mouths while they're too young to do it themselves. We'd like them to become what we want, but that thing called free will takes over. We tend, especially as parents, to think we can control a lot more of life than we really can. Be grateful if he is a law abiding young man trying to figure out what he likes and where he fits into this society.
We have friends who have a son (24) who is now in jail. They were good parents - as good and as imperfect as any other. Their son started getting in trouble as early as the 8th grade. Punishment, intervention, counseling, you name it, did little to change his course. He dropped out of HS and started hanging with gangs and skinheads. Three years ago, while out on probabtion for theft, he attacked his father who is disabled. Broke three of his ribs, collapsed his lung, gave him a concussion. He's just coming up for parole now. They tear themselves up over how he could have turned out this way - what they did wrong. The truly sad ending here: The father is actually considering taking him back into the house when he is released, as he noted "where else is he going to go"?
Jayboflavin04
11-08-2010, 08:17
snip
Dapper, do you have kids? I ask, because if you do, I'm surprise you haven't seen the ambivalence in your kids when they are doing something they enjoy on day, and then the next day they aren't interested. With a longer goal, I believe all kids will try to quit as they don't haven't understood that 'peak experience' that comes with pursuing a goal through adversity. Kids are very much in the moment, and if it isn't fun that moment, they will want to stop. I think part of our responsibilities as parents is to teach them the rewards are even greater after surmounting the challenges. The hard part is seeing when something has truly lost it's enjoyment for them vs when they just don't want to be doing it 'now.'
Gravity
Well said! This is what i go through with my son on about every trip we take.
Jayboflavin04
11-08-2010, 08:23
My son hiked the AT with me in '07. A year ago he just walked out of our house and our lives (he is now 20). Didn't tell us he was leaving. Just left everything (even his treasures). He dropped out of college. He has a hard time keeping a job. He lived in his car a while (even now we aren't certain where he is living, though he does have a part time job we think). We leave him messages every once in a while on his phone, telling him we love him and are thinking of him. He does not call back. He will not answer his phone (though I did have a good talk with him on his birthday in September while I was on the trail). With the young and older men I have talked to while I was on the trail, this seems to be a phase. They need to find out for themselves who they are and what they want to be and do. We did the best we could for him. Now we have to trust God and trust that those things we and others taught will come to some manner of fruit in his life in the way that is best for him. It's all we can do. That's not to say I don't cry about it and the way he chooses right now not to have anything to do with us or involve us in his life. It hurts. But I will wait and hope that one day he will come to my door and say - hey Mom, I miss you. Let's go for a hike. Or whatever. And I'll come running.
Prayers blissful!
Unfortunately, by the time I really got into backpacking and got serious about doing long-term things, my parents were well past their adventuresome age. If it didn't involve a hotel, they weren't interested in going anywhere for more than a night. It's sad. :(
And really, come on:mad: You are an adult. Your parent's need not be expected to hold your hand to do things. If you want to go hiking, backpacking, camping or whatever, then do it. Stop blaming them and everyone else for not having been more productive in your earlier years:rolleyes:
Trailbender
11-08-2010, 15:22
OK picture this - The last three years, (he left last year) can you picture this white haired 49 year old dad playing HALO and sometimes winning?
XBOX RULES!
Not if you played against me. I haven't played in awhile, but back when I was in the Army, it took 15 beers before anyone else had a chance to beat me in HALO.
OK picture this - The last three years, (he left last year) can you picture this white haired 49 year old dad playing HALO and sometimes winning?
XBOX RULES!
Easily, I work in IT.
I banged out Eagle Scout when I was 14, and honestly the 2 years after that(mostly OA stuff) were the best part of Scouting for me. I didn't really bother with Scouting my Senior year in High School, and it's only been in the past 18 months or so that I've gotten back into the outdoors(military service notwithstanding).
It could be that in a few years he'll want to get into some kind of outdoor activity again and he'll return to camping/hiking/kayaking. If he's like me he'll give Drunken Kickball (http://dckickball.org/) a try, get his arse kicked, and decided that hiking is easier and less competitive.