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10-K
11-02-2010, 22:18
I'm about to pull the trigger and register for a 50 km run in Columbia, SC in January but I'm a bit apprehensive about running that distance.

How does a 50 km trail race compare to a 26.2 mile street race?

I can run 15 miles on the street no problem - not fast - 9 mpm - but I can do it without stopping so I have a good base to work with.

I'm just wondering if I have time to go from 15 miles on the street to 31 miles on a trail with only 2 months left to train.

jcazz
11-02-2010, 22:33
If you can run a marathon then you can run 50K, easy. It's all in your head how far you can go. You don't have to run the whole thing -power walk up hills if you need to to save energy, the biggest thing is not to go out to fast and you will finish strong.
I have done plenty of 50K's on less mileage, I think if you have run a few marathons/ultras your body remembers and it gets easier ever time.
Good Luck!

burk
11-02-2010, 22:48
just do not try to run your road pace even in the flats. these is more of a endurance than a marathon. enjoy it.

Helios
11-02-2010, 22:58
I've run 9 road marathons, and 1 50K (LHHT). As the 50K was on trail, and only had 3 water/food points, my pace was inherently slower. I did a bit of walking, to say the least.

To put it in a time sense:

Marine Corps Marathon, Oct 09: 3:45
Laurel Highlands Ultra 50K, Jun 09: 6:51

Point being, it's doable, just slow down a bit more and enjoy yourself. It's my most prized accomplishment. Your training will be valuable, but your mindset even more so. Just like long distance hiking, I suppose... :-)

fiddlehead
11-03-2010, 07:48
I remember my first 50k race and a friend of mine (who ran plenty of them) let me run with him.
We started out on and uphill and we walked it.
He said: "Don't worry about those passing us, we'll catch them later" and some of them we did catch later.
He had a rule: Always walk the uphills.
If you follow that advice, you will find that a 50k race is much more fun than a marathon.
It is on trails, the goal isn't necessarily how fast you can do it (you don't see people looking at their watch all the time like they do it marathons), and people talk and help each other through problems.
It's much more like hiking than marathon running.

Just go out and enjoy it and try to run your second half quicker than your first half to really feel your best.

10-K
11-03-2010, 10:45
I ran a 16 mile trail run in September and I'm registered for another one this month. I ran a half marathon this past weekend.

My concern is that it's a big jump from 13.1 and 16 miles to 31 miles.

I've got 2 months to condition myself to handle the 16 additional miles and as I don't have any experience running on trails I'm just wondering how it all translates.

The race has a 9 hour time limit and I slackpacked Devil's Fork Gap to Erwin (32 miles) in 10 hours so I'm not worried about finishing.....

I guess I'll just go do it and see what happens. :)

Spokes
11-03-2010, 10:55
You'll do fine 10-K. Sounds like you have a good base already. Check out this article (http://www.hammernutrition.com/hnt/1273/) on the 10 Biggest Mistakes Endurance Athletes Make. It helped me finish my last two 50 milers.

Good luck!

Spokes
11-03-2010, 11:01
BTW, I am in no way associated with Hammer Nutrition products. Read the linked article I referenced for what it is- information, and adjust your personal training plan to meet your needs. Proper fueling is always important whether hiking or running.

Now go have fun!

Pedaling Fool
11-03-2010, 11:06
I ran a 16 mile trail run in September and I'm registered for another one this month. I ran a half marathon this past weekend.

My concern is that it's a big jump from 13.1 and 16 miles to 31 miles.

I've got 2 months to condition myself to handle the 16 additional miles and as I don't have any experience running on trails I'm just wondering how it all translates.

The race has a 9 hour time limit and I slackpacked Devil's Fork Gap to Erwin (32 miles) in 10 hours so I'm not worried about finishing.....

I guess I'll just go do it and see what happens. :)
No worries than...

This seems as though it would be a perfect opportunity to break into trail running. Just don't let your ego get the best of you (for the most part). I always have much success in new adventures...of course I always set my expectations very low:D

I'm no professional, I don't get paid to be an athlete, so I don't see any point of killing myself in these events. It's all about health (in the long-term). If you try and alway break a record (personal best) you'll just end up burning yourself out later in life; that's the way I see it.

But of course sometimes my ego gets the best of me...

:sun

10-K
11-03-2010, 11:07
BTW, I am in no way associated with Hammer Nutrition products. Read the linked article I referenced for what it is- information, and adjust your personal training plan to meet your needs. Proper fueling is always important whether hiking or running.

Now go have fun!

Great article thanks - have you used any of their products? Perpetuem looks pretty interesting.

Spokes
11-03-2010, 12:16
Great article thanks - have you used any of their products? Perpetuem looks pretty interesting.

Lots of long distance cyclists around my area use Perpetuem and love it. I only use three of their products- Heed, Sustained Energy, and Hammer Gels. Heed is an electrolyte drink and Sustained Energy has a protein component. You use the SE in activities lasting over 2-3 hours.

The biggest difference that article made for me was eliminating the simple sugar consumption (#2) and replacing them with complex carbs. I felt so much better after my marathons and ultras once I made the switch!

Keep us posted on your 50K experience and what you learn that will translate over to hiking.

Lone Wolf
11-06-2010, 15:53
I'm about to pull the trigger and register for a 50 km run in Columbia, SC in January but I'm a bit apprehensive about running that distance.

How does a 50 km trail race compare to a 26.2 mile street race?

I can run 15 miles on the street no problem - not fast - 9 mpm - but I can do it without stopping so I have a good base to work with.

I'm just wondering if I have time to go from 15 miles on the street to 31 miles on a trail with only 2 months left to train.

give this a shot next year. it's being run today actually http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk3dO1wJWxE&feature=share

Camping Dave
11-06-2010, 20:32
I finished mine on about the same amount of training. Walk all the uphills.

RockDoc
11-13-2010, 00:21
Go for it. If you are a good hiker, you'll like ultras.
On hilly ultras, often the speed for most folks comes down to 3 to 4 mph, once you averaging in walking up the hills, breaks, etc.

10-K
11-13-2010, 07:43
Go for it. If you are a good hiker, you'll like ultras.
On hilly ultras, often the speed for most folks comes down to 3 to 4 mph, once you averaging in walking up the hills, breaks, etc.

I'm going to do it! My real goal of course is a 50 miler and knowing me, after that I'm not going to be happy until I run a 100 miler.. We'll see...

I ran a half marathon 2 weeks ago and I'm running another one today. In 2 weeks I'm running a 16 mile trail run and in December I'm going to run the Kiawah Island marathon.

I'm running all of these as training races and not to set a PB.

As most of these street races are on pretty level ground (especially the marathon which is flat as a pancake and at sea level) I'm also spending a fair amount of time running on the AT around here. Basically I'm running the street races just to get my mileage up and spending time on my feet.

I like trail running a lot - it's time in the woods and I don't have to do a lot of planning, take time off for work, etc. that comes with hiking. It's not really a substitute for hiking but it's a nice alternative.

runfifty
11-13-2010, 23:28
Lots of good advice so far. If you're doing at least 35 miles per week with a several long runs of around 20 miles, you should finish comfortably (relatively speaking).
Here are a few additional pieces of advice:
1. Your pace will be much, much slower on the trail. Don't get caught up trying to run your road marathon pace. Walk the uphills early, you can always pick up the pace later, if you feel like it. Going out too fast will cause lots of suffering or a DNF.

2. Taper well before the race. Three weeks is best but allow at least two. Cut down your weekly mileage and long runs by about 50%. Be sure and allow several weeks recovery after the race, too.

3. Take in lots of calories while running. I could never eat before or during shorter races because the pace was too intense to allow me to digest the food. That's not so much an issue with trail races where the pace is slower. Hammer gel works best for me, it's easy to carry and doesn't have high fructose corn syrup, which can bounce around your blood sugar. Experiment in your longer training runs to see what your stomach can tolerate.

4. If you expect the race to be hot or humid, carry some Succeed electrolyte tabs (or equivalent). Taking in large amounts of water while sweating and urinating a lot can upset your sodium and potassium levels, causing cramps and/or nausea.

Hope this helps........Good Luck!

Nature Boy
12-21-2010, 16:05
Have a blast with your 50K.

Trail running is different kind of beast, your body works much harder to compensate for the rough uneven terrain. Start off slow and build off of that. Nutrition is what will help you finish ultra's. Do your training runs and expriment with different food types and gels. Have your nutrition dialed in before race day. Stay well hydrated and you will do fine, your body will do what your mind tells it to..!! If you become addicted (like me) try the Pinhoti 100 next November, now that is a fun ultra...!!!

10-K
12-21-2010, 16:13
I'm ready - In the past 7 weeks I've ran 2 half marathons, a 16 mile trail race and a marathon so I've got the mileage dialed in and I've been doing a lot of long trail runs up and down the AT around here the past few months as well.

The day after Christmas I'm heading out to hike the 100 mile section between Davenport Gap and Erwin, then I'm going to take a few days off to recover which leaves just enough time for one more long run to get the kinks from the hike out.

I'd like to do a 50 miler and, knowing me, if that goes well I won't be happy until I complete a 100 miler... :)

Phreak
12-21-2010, 16:14
give this a shot next year. it's being run today actually http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk3dO1wJWxE&feature=share
This race is on my list but its ran on the same weekend as the Pinhoti 100 Miler. Decisions... decisions.

fiddlehead
12-21-2010, 18:29
I always strive to run the second half faster than the first.
That means you've got to start S L O W.
I have never succeeded in that quest but my best race was when i came closest. (if only i wouldn't have bonked for the final 13 miles)

JJJ
12-24-2010, 11:03
You can do this, I have no doubt. You may find it easier than a street 26.2, unless you try to run the hills. You obviously could break 6, but I'd shoot for around 6-6:30 for your first unless the course is very hilly -Just to get familiar with the distance. Make sure you start taking in some calories maybe a little earlier than in a marathon. Find a partner at the race shooting for the same time to chat with helps keep the mind out of pain-mode.

You should really think about Promise Land 50k in late April.
A beautiful and challenging day in the mountains.

jjj

Highway Man
12-26-2010, 18:59
I just want to provide some evidence that humans can do a lot more than I can imagine. I met a guy, Charles, from Memphis, when staying in a hostel on my CT thru-hike this year. He was doing 100 mile mountain trail running at Leadville, CT. It could take more than a day for them to finish. Some of them are even trained like the animals on African safari to eat big portions on the trail while running. That's what I learned from another 100 mile runner.

That event attracts a lot of people around the world. So I guess you should receive some encouragement from it for your 50K. Good luck.

10-K
01-08-2011, 19:55
Well, I ran the 50k today... I'm not super excited about my time - 7:05 - but it was a lot of fun.

I ran the first 20 miles in 4:05 and just flat gave out of gas. I was running strong and then pffft.. nothing left.

2 things I think worked against me....

First, I ran a street marathon 3 weeks ago and I think it might have been a bit too soon for another long race.

Second, and this is more aggravating, is that I was very confident that I could make 6:30 based on my GPS data. I hit 31 miles (on my GPS) at 6:35 - the only problem is that when I crossed the finish line my GPS read 32.68 miles. I know a GPS doesn't measure the course the same way a race director does but I wasn't expecting it to be almost 1.75 miles off.

Anyway, no excuses - I'm happy to finish. It was a great course, well marked and the aid stations were awesome - I spent way too much time at each one.... Lord willing, I'll run this one again next year.

RockDoc
01-17-2011, 20:40
Garmins are often inaccurate by a couple miles in a 50k run. I run with a group of friends and we compare gps mileage at the end, it's always comical how different they are. Two or three miles error is common.

Good for you for finishing, ultras do have a bit of a learning curve. The hardest one is always your first one, but they don't get much easier with time (I've done 35).

Careful, however, they can be addictive.

jersey joe
01-17-2011, 20:59
Nice thread 10-k...it has me wanting to try a 50k sometime.

runfifty
01-18-2011, 00:23
It's a possibility that the course was long, rather than gps error. Unlike road races, ultras aren't usually measured accurately. A couple miles too long is certainly common. Early in my ultra career, I reached the 28 mile aid station at a race in Virginia race in 4:35. I figured with only 5k to go, I might be able to get under five hours so I spent all I had left in the tank. I finished with a time of 5:22, after a lot of suffering the last 20 minutes, and was baffled where I went wrong. At the awards the race director announced that the course was actually 34 miles instead of 50k. Later races showed that wasn't unusual. Ultra times are so "course dependent" that you can't really compare times due to differences in terrain, climb, weather etc. That means having an accurately measured course has less importance than in a road race. Mile markers on the courses aren't always accurate, either. It's all part of the adjustment from road racing to trail ultras.

10-K
01-18-2011, 08:28
It's a possibility that the course was long, rather than gps error. Unlike road races, ultras aren't usually measured accurately. A couple miles too long is certainly common. Early in my ultra career, I reached the 28 mile aid station at a race in Virginia race in 4:35. I figured with only 5k to go, I might be able to get under five hours so I spent all I had left in the tank. I finished with a time of 5:22, after a lot of suffering the last 20 minutes, and was baffled where I went wrong. At the awards the race director announced that the course was actually 34 miles instead of 50k. Later races showed that wasn't unusual. Ultra times are so "course dependent" that you can't really compare times due to differences in terrain, climb, weather etc. That means having an accurately measured course has less importance than in a road race. Mile markers on the courses aren't always accurate, either. It's all part of the adjustment from road racing to trail ultras.

I've since compared notes with a few other runners and all of our GPS's reported within a .25 miles of 32.5 for the length of the course so I'm pretty sure the course was over by more than a mile.

Shame, because I was using the mileage on my GPS to time a fnish but it just didn't work out.

The bigger problem with my finish time was running a marathon 3 weeks prior though...

The RD is planning a night race of the same course in July so I'll run it again, this time knowing the course (terrain and distance) and I'm sure I'll do better.

.... and I'm registering for my first 50 mile race as a birthday present to myself for turning 50 this summer - that should be very interesting.....

JJJ
01-24-2011, 07:55
Congrats, 10-K!

They get easier

That marathon could have been the problem, but it sounds more like more literally "running out of gas." I'm finding that taking a gel every 45-60 minutes, just like the packets say keep me fresher longer. For events that long, most people need an even flow of simple calories to do their best.

Run another long event soon and you can be an official Marathon Maniac (http://www.marathonmaniacs.com/)

JJJ

markc7
02-02-2011, 17:29
Congrats on your first 50K finish! It is pretty common for ultras to be measured long (sometimes referred to as Horton Miles, after an RD who is notorious for making his courses harder and longer than promised).

Definitely try another 50K with a bit more rest before, and I'm sure you'll find it more enjoyable. I've done many ultras in close proximity to each other, and I've never had a good race without at least one month between it and the previous race.