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mattyg2
12-11-2004, 15:53
I'm looking for an insulated jacket and possibly vest, mainly for my thru-hike this Feb. Unfortunately none of the local outfitters carry any of the jackets I'm looking at.

In general, I'm looking for a system that I can take down to around 0 F, but will also hold up well to 30 and cold rain. That being said, they need to be able to repel some rain, or at least be wearable under my rain shell (which is one size bigger so it fits over other layers). Iím trying to decide between down or synthetic, or a combination of both. Any recommendation on layering systemÖ
warm down jacket
syn. Vest / light down jacket
down vest / syn. Jacket etc.

Some of the jackets I'm looking at are:

WM Flight Jacket 10.5 oz / $200
WM Flight Vest 5.5 oz / $150
WM Meltdown Jacket 17 oz / $275

Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover 12.5 / $145
Patagonia Down Sweater 10.5 / $159
Patagonia Puffball Vest 10 / $89

Integral Designs Dolomitti Jacket 21 / $160
Integral Designs Logan Vest 13 / $100

WM Jackets
Are there any differences in the two jackets besides a hood and shell? Is one warmer that the other, and can they be worn under a pack while walking around town or other non-strenuous activities where they will rub? Do down jackets generally work well under shells, or are they too bulky? Can you hike in the vest when the temp drops, or is the shell too fragile?

Patagonia Jackets
Patagonia Down Sweater...seems less bulky, but how warm is it?
Patagonia Puff Pullover...synthetic seems to hold up better to layering, again how warm? Also seems like the vest would work well while hiking.

ID Jacket
Fairly heavy, but seems like it would work the best, being able to put a vest under for extra warmth, and still comfortably wear under a rain shell.

Any personal reviews, experiences, recommendations welcome.


Thanks,
Matt

Moose2001
12-11-2004, 16:02
Matt - I would avoid any type of down jacket if your intending on hiking in it. Even under your rain jacket, it's going to get damp and start to loose it's loft. Hiking in cool or cold weather is all about layers. My suggestion is buy a good fleece jacket or pullover that will fit under your rainjacket. If you need additional warmth, throw in a light fleece vest. Couple that with a good, warm hat and you can stay warm quite easily.

Footslogger
12-11-2004, 16:24
Matt - I would avoid any type of down jacket if your intending on hiking in it. Even under your rain jacket, it's going to get damp and start to loose it's loft. Hiking in cool or cold weather is all about layers. My suggestion is buy a good fleece jacket or pullover that will fit under your rainjacket. If you need additional warmth, throw in a light fleece vest. Couple that with a good, warm hat and you can stay warm quite easily.===================
I agree with Moose. You'll need to layer to get the desired effect. Take a look at the Northern Lite Pullover from MEC on their website (Mountain Equipment of Canada). It's a densely woven nylon shell filled with PrimaLoft I. I carried one last year on my thru-hike and used a Frogg Togg rain jacket as my outer layer. Went through some pretty cold and nasty stuff last year on the AT and that combination worked well for me. When I wasn't wearing it I used it as a pillow, since it packs into its own pocket.

'Slogger
AT 2003

kncats
12-11-2004, 16:36
Like Moose2001 said, personally I'd stay away from down for my jacket. There'll be too many times that it'll start drizzling or snowing and you won't feel like digging out your rain gear. Synthetics seem to hold up much better when slightly damp. Also, when your talking about that quantity of insulation there's not much difference in weight between synthetics and down for the warmth value. Most of the weight is going to be in the material the jacket is made of.

A rule of thumb we've found to work well is that a quality jacket that weighs around 12 ounces works to about 30 degrees, it doesn't matter if it's fleece, down or synthetic. My personal favorite is Primaloft. To get down to 0 degrees we usually count on adding another jacket of about 16 ounces. If you're warmer blooded than my wife and I then a vest may work all right for your first layer.

The companies you mentioned all make quality outer wear, buy what's on sale. You may also want to check out Mountain Equipment Coop (MEC, www.mec.ca) in Canada. Their own brand of gear is very good and extremely well priced. My wife LOVES her Northern Light jacket.

Kerosene
12-11-2004, 16:59
I'd also take a look at the Montbell lightweight vests (https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=2003) and jackets (https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=2002), in either down or synthetic. I'd certainly go with one of their U.L. versions if you're going to go synthetic.

I also would go with synthetic if you think you'll be hiking in it (although it's highly unlikely that you'll hit 0*F during the day. At the same time, you need to make sure you are warm enough in camp (those days are really really short in February).

TakeABreak
12-11-2004, 21:07
As stated you will probably not want to hike with a down vest or coat on, unless it is unusually colder than normal, but still probably not, it will just be too hot. I did carry a down coat for a few weeks for wearing during the evenings( I picked up, at a salvation army store, it was light and warm $3., it also fit under my rain jacket), I found I did use it much and I could get by just layering up on clothes (By the way I started in february also, (2/12/00)). I wound up giving it to another hiker.

If you bound and determined to cary one, do what I did, if you decide you don't need it, you can donate to a hiker box, someone at hostel will be very thankful.

mattyg2
12-11-2004, 22:01
I don't plan to wear the jackets during the middle of the day, but to warm up for early morning hikes, night hikes, camp wear, and for walking on streets in/to/from town. In these cases, a warm layer that is comes on and off quickly over my usual hiking clothing is handy. I curretnly use a fleece and a bunch of layers, but I'm trying to cut back on weight and space, and make my nights in camp little bit more comfortable. I just don't want to get a new jacket and tear it apart when it gets used as anything other than camp wear.


Thanks for the quick responses,
Matt

Tater
12-11-2004, 23:22
How small does the MEC Northern Light jacket pack up, compared to down and fleece?

Footslogger
12-12-2004, 00:02
How small does the MEC Northern Light jacket pack up, compared to down and fleece?==================================
I have the Northern Light Pullover (long sleeve). Just got mine out and packed it inside the stow pocket to see. It ends up being about 8" x 6" and a couple inches thick. However, it packs down much smaller when you shove it in your pack.

'Slogger
AT 2003

Tater
12-12-2004, 00:10
Backpacking Lite compared the Montbell U.L. Thermawrap, MEC Northern Lite, GoLite Buzz, Moonstone Cirrus Ultralight, and Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover. It found the Patagonia Micro Puff performed the best overall including field warmth. The Montbell was the lightest and the MEC the least expensive.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/2004_ultralight_synthetic_insulating_jackets_vests _review.html

Footslogger
12-12-2004, 00:37
Backpacking Lite compared the Montbell U.L. Thermawrap, MEC Northern Lite, GoLite Buzz, Moonstone Cirrus Ultralight, and Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover. It found the Patagonia Micro Puff performed the best overall including field warmth. The Montbell was the lightest and the MEC the least expensive.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/2004_ultralight_synthetic_insulating_jackets_vests _review.html==========================
Yeah ...I read that report. Results were really very close though. Hey, if you can afford the Patagonia go for it. All I know is that the MEC performed great for me on the AT last year and it's stil one of my favorite pieces of clothing. Personally I'd rather save the $25 - $30 and go with the MEC.

I actually own the Patagonia Puff Ball. Used to work for an outfitter and got huge discounts so I bought a lot of gear over the years. I was colder in the Patagonia than I ever was in the MEC pullover.

'Slogger
AT 2003

verber
12-12-2004, 04:15
If you want to be warm in 0F when around camp and it might get rained on that I would vote for the Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover. But don't expect to hiking in this jacket unless it is below 0F because you will be sweating up a storm if you use this jacket in warmer weather. It's amazingly warm. I have never owned a Northern Lite jacket... but I have check a friends out. I think the Micro Puff is warmer, but the Northern Lite jacket is a great price and perfect if you are trying to economize. I have a Thermawrap vest which was mentioned above. I've been comfortable sitting around with a base layer, + thermawrap vest + a windshirt down to around 30F. Below that it's get chilly unless I am moving.... in which case it works well down to around 0F.

BTW: Slogger.. is your Puff Ball the original primaloft puff ball, or the later thermalite model? I think the primaloft model was warmer and lighter than than the later thermalite version of the puff ball. The micro puff is significantly warmer than the original puff, and significantly lighter than the thermalight version of the puff.

kncats
12-12-2004, 08:54
A quick check of the MEC web pages doesn't show the Northern Lite Pullover for sale any more. Don't know if that's permanent or if it's just a seasonal change. They still have the Northern Lite Jacket which is a heavier/warmer model. It's 480 grams/17 ounces and insulated with 3 oz/sq yard Primaloft.

HikeLite
12-12-2004, 10:28
Wow, MEC sure doesn't have it listed anymore, the pullover. I wonder if it just wasn't selling in this anorak form.

Footslogger
12-13-2004, 01:16
BTW: Slogger.. is your Puff Ball the original primaloft puff ball, or the later thermalite model? I think the primaloft model was warmer and lighter than than the later thermalite version of the puff ball. The micro puff is significantly warmer than the original puff, and significantly lighter than the thermalight version of the puff.=============================
Well, I don't know when Pataguchi made the change but mine is circa 1997 or 1998 and is the PrimaLoft model. All things considered though I still like my MEC pullover better.

'Slogger
AT 2003

baseballswthrt
12-13-2004, 01:32
I found my MEC pullover to be plenty warm to hike in in 20-30*. I even had to unzip it part way to stay cool enough. The only complaint I had, was that there are no hand warmer pockets.
I did have to add a down jacket at night sitting around the campsite.
It is a tremendous value! :banana

Anita

Happy
12-14-2004, 15:22
I own the WM Flight Jacket and use it during the winter and have been well pleased. Never hike in it...too hot...use a Marmot Dri-Clime to hike in.

The Flight jacket is perfect to use around camp or when you take a break...if it starts raining just add your rain jacket over it.

This product is also ideal to add warmth to your sleeping bag or use as a pillow!

When hiking try a mid-weight Pagonia Zip-T and a Zip Jacket such as the Marmot Dri-clime and you can unzip both on uphills and zip both up on downhills...works great to regulate your comfort!

Rocalousas
12-14-2004, 15:49
Happy do you think the Flight Jacket is rugged enough to hike with a packpack on, if it's really cold? Some have said avoid down jackets for hiking because they'll get torn up or the loft will decrease from the pressure of the backpack.

Happy
12-14-2004, 16:20
Happy do you think the Flight Jacket is rugged enough to hike with a packpack on, if it's really cold? Some have said avoid down jackets for hiking because they'll get torn up or the loft will decrease from the pressure of the backpack.

I have not tried it and would not want to, as I hike in layers to stay warm.
I use a zip-T base, covered with a zipper Dry-Clime and if REALLY COLD my Marmot Pre-Cip rain jacket. The rain jacket never lasts long as I get too hot!

I would not like to take a chance on hiking in the WM Flight for the reasons you mention! It sure is great in camp and on lunch breaks, and on VERY COLD winter nights in the bag!

Tater
12-16-2004, 11:47
Which is warmer, the Patagonia Micro Puff Jacket or the WM Flight Jacket? I need to make a decision fast if I'm going to be hiking over the holidays.

snarbles
12-16-2004, 18:44
I have been interested in this Bozeman Cocoon pullover. Just need to add something to keep your head warm.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/cocoon_pullover.html

Dudeboard
12-16-2004, 20:04
I have been interested in this Bozeman Cocoon pullover. Just need to add something to keep your head warm.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/cocoon_pullover.html
At 8.5 ounces, that's a contender for sure.

SGT Rock
12-16-2004, 20:23
Dixicritter is making me one of those Kennebeck pullovers for Christmas. It is another ligtweight gear option if you want to make one yourself. I will post weights as soon as it is finished.

verber
12-16-2004, 21:10
Which is warmer, the Patagonia Micro Puff Jacket or the WM Flight Jacket? I need to make a decision fast if I'm going to be hiking over the holidays.

I don't have extensive experience with the Flight Jacket... but from my brief exposure to it, I would think the Flight Jacket is warmer than the Micro Puff.

mattyg2
12-17-2004, 01:14
Would the flight jacket stand up to every day use? School, walking around town, carrying a bookbad or a hockey bag over my shoulders, etc?


Would any of the others? The jacket is going to be a holiday gift, and I am going to get WHOOPED by my girlfriend if it can't double as an everyday jacket, or if it gets torn apart quickly.


Thanks for all the info so far.

Matt

Happy
12-17-2004, 02:50
Would handle those duties with no problem!!

sierraDoug
12-17-2004, 03:29
I'm looking for ways to lighten up my gear, and the MEC Northern Lite sounds good. I think a pull-over would be a pain to get on and off, not being stretchy like a sweater. And you can open a jacket for more ventilation. Of course, the full zip jacket weighs more. Any comments on living with a pull-over?

baseballswthrt
12-17-2004, 05:50
The MEC Northern Light unzips far enough that it is not a problem getting it off and on. It also unzips far enough to open for ventilation if you get too warm! I love mine!

Anita

NICKTHEGREEK
12-17-2004, 08:08
I've had a WM Meltdown for 2 years and it is a truly wonderful garment, light very lofty (think Michelin man), beautifully made. I was surprised to see the price has gone up to 275.00 (I paid 200 for the 800 fill version in Dec 2002). The shell material does a wonderful job shedding water but certainly isn't water proof and getting it caught in a overshell zipper would spell disaster, . Because of the High loft, I simply can't picture wearing it under a shell even 2 sizes larger without compressing the down to the point that all the insulating properties are lost. I think the Meltdown may be overkill in temps above freezing where getting wet is an issue. The gear guy at Outside Magazine online talked about a similar question a day or so ago- here's the link
http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gearguy/200412/20041216.html

I have no experience with the Moonstone Jacket he talks about in the link but I have a Moonstone Bag and shell and love them.

White Oak
12-28-2004, 02:23
I took the plunge and ordered the Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover, and my first impression was that I'd been suckered. $150 for THIS? The insulation is incredibly thin, especially in the front by your upper chest, basically there's nothing between the shell material except a very thin gauze like material. You can pinch your fingers together in the front and they touch. I'll give it a field test in sub-freezing temps, but if it doesn't really impress me I''m going to return it and get a much less expensive fleece jacket, or go the other extreme and get the WM Flight Jacket.

neo
12-28-2004, 07:23
i wear multiple layers,a poly pro long sleeve shirt,next capalene pull over,next lite wind jacket,in rain i wear my dancing gear lite rain pull over:sun neo

HikeLite
12-28-2004, 12:28
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/2004_ultralight_synthetic_insulating_jackets_vests _review.html

The patagonia got high marks with BPL. EMS has a primaloft jacket on sale for less than $70.

White Oak
01-10-2005, 14:46
I took the plunge and ordered the Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover, and my first impression was that I'd been suckered. $150 for THIS? The insulation is incredibly thin, especially in the front by your upper chest, basically there's nothing between the shell material except a very thin gauze like material. You can pinch your fingers together in the front and they touch.
Is it worth it? I'm thinking of returning it for a $26 Campmor fleece jacket or going the other extreme and get the WM Flight Jacket.

The Solemates
01-10-2005, 14:53
Matt - I would avoid any type of down jacket if ....

they cost an arm and a leg like the ones you have listed.

The Solemates
01-10-2005, 14:54
I took the plunge and ordered the Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover, and my first impression was that I'd been suckered. $150 for THIS? The insulation is incredibly thin, especially in the front by your upper chest, basically there's nothing between the shell material except a very thin gauze like material. You can pinch your fingers together in the front and they touch.
Is it worth it? I'm thinking of returning it for a $26 Campmor fleece jacket or going the other extreme and get the WM Flight Jacket.

My point exactly. You can get stuff just as good for much cheaper.

Footslogger
01-10-2005, 15:09
I took the plunge and ordered the Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover, and my first impression was that I'd been suckered. $150 for THIS? The insulation is incredibly thin, especially in the front by your upper chest, basically there's nothing between the shell material except a very thin gauze like material. You can pinch your fingers together in the front and they touch.
Is it worth it? I'm thinking of returning it for a $26 Campmor fleece jacket or going the other extreme and get the WM Flight Jacket.===================================
Yeah ...Pataguchi stuff is pretty pricey. I kinda felt the same way when I got the NorthernLite Pullover from MEC, even at $60. Only 11 oz and felt pretty thin. Nice thing about it is how small it packs down. When I didn't need it at night I used it as a pillow.

I gotta tell you though, that thing really performed. It's made with PrimaLoft I and has a dense outer nylon shell. I sprayed it with durable water repellant. It stopped wind and kept me warm in temps down to the teens. As far as I'm concerned it was worth every penny I paid. I recently tried to order one for my wife but they are all sold out and won't be getting any more until Fall of this year <sigh>

'Slogger
AT 2003

Jaybird
01-10-2005, 15:29
rain shells, jackets, fleece, etc....ck out:


www.REI.com (http://www.rei.com)


www.campmor.com (http://www.campmor.com)


i always wait for sales....an extra 10, 20 or 30% always helps out! :D

bondboy
01-10-2005, 16:19
Patagonia Puff Ball Pullover....150.00 , Lightest And Warmest. I Treat Mine W/ A Water Repellent Spray...stuffs In Small Bag. Too Warm To Walk In But, Great When I Get To Shelter...i Also Sleep In Mine.

Footslogger
01-10-2005, 16:21
Patagonia Puff Ball Pullover....150.00 , Lightest And Warmest. I Treat Mine W/ A Water Repellent Spray...stuffs In Small Bag. Too Warm To Walk In But, Great When I Get To Shelter...i Also Sleep In Mine.=======================
Sounds like that, with the exception of price, the Puffball and the Northern Lite are similar in performance.

'Slogger
AT 2003

cyclocrosser
01-10-2005, 17:12
I have a Patagonia Mens Core Skin Jacket. It is highly water repellent (not 100% water proof), wind proof, breathable, and warm to about 20 degees and is very trim fitting so there is little extra weight. I use it all the time and it worked wonders here in Louisville when we had 6" of snow. With midweight long underware and a t-shirt I was never cold and sometimes hot when I was sledding at 20 degrees. I have never been wet when it was raining either. Retail is $250, but I work for a store that carries Patagonia and got for $100.


Patagonia M's Core Skin Jacket (http://www.patagonia.com/za/PDC?OPTION=PRODUCT&merchant_rn=7385&sku=84452&ws=false)

mattyg2
01-10-2005, 18:26
Thanks for all of the imput. EMS decided to put all of their winter jackets on clearance (at least 50% off), so I ended up with one of their synthetic jackets. Primaloft one, fairly light, and around $60. Not bad.


Matt

SGT Rock
01-10-2005, 19:41
I have the Kennebec Insulated Pullover pull over made with 0.8" pirmaloft and 0.8 ounce DWR material - it came in at 9.7 ounces for the DIY kit at about $67 or so. VERY warm.

fsb4e1
07-10-2011, 13:14
Matt

Try this site http://www.asasupplies.com/Insulated-Jacket-For-Walk-In-Freezer. I got it from a safety supply company because i needed one for work..i work in a cold storage facility...It hold up to -40 degrees so it could be what you are looking for. Also pricing was not bad compared to $200 bucks or so Ive seen for other such jackets. Hope that helps..

Thanks,
TJ

fsb4e1
07-10-2011, 13:21
oh here is a picture I found of the jacket 12004 (http://www.asasupplies.com/Insulated-Jacket-For-Walk-In-Freezer)

Bucherm
07-10-2011, 18:53
Matt

Try this site http://www.asasupplies.com/Insulated-Jacket-For-Walk-In-Freezer. I got it from a safety supply company because i needed one for work..i work in a cold storage facility...It hold up to -40 degrees so it could be what you are looking for. Also pricing was not bad compared to $200 bucks or so Ive seen for other such jackets. Hope that helps..

Thanks,
TJ

Why'd you respond to a thread where the last post was made 6 years ago?

Country Roads
07-10-2011, 20:14
I use a Montbell UL down inner jacket for camp use and to sleep in (would not use it to hike in though).
For colder weather, I use a fleece pullover, a Montbell synthetic vest and an Ultralight weight shell jacket; this gives me the ability to adjust the layers to fit the temps and my sweat level. I use a Packa for a rain jacket (and it makes a nice pillow if it is not wet)

aaronthebugbuffet
07-10-2011, 21:36
Why'd you respond to a thread where the last post was made 6 years ago?
He 's probably just spamming for that company.

jimmi
09-10-2011, 05:10
I'd suggest going for something a bit thicker than a 100gsm fill synthetic for long belays in the cold. 100gsm has got me through some trips in Oz, but I definitely was happy to have my 200gsm jacket when I was ice climbing in Canada during March.


Emmy Winner Predictions (http://www.ranker.com/list/emmy-winner-predictions-2011/the-emmys)

gtg
09-14-2011, 11:42
Hi, Ok I see much of this info on this thread while insightful is likely very dated, maybe I would be better starting a whole new thread but lets give it a try here since it seems to be active. I am interested in a very light weight packable jacket, mostly for in camp use when hiking. I am considering the Patagonia Nano puff, likely the jacket in i like having a place to put my hands. I have also heard much good about Montbell UL thermowrap, i am guessing their insulation is the same as the primaloft? I also see that REI has the Revecloud. Any input on what might be my best choice or other options would be appreciated.
thanks

mirabela
09-14-2011, 21:00
There are lots of good options in this segment lately. I've got a nanopuff pullover (60g primaloft, super light) and a north face redpoint jacket (100g primaloft, total weight ~20 oz) for colder conditions. The thermowrap seems to get good reviews. EMS makes something comparable, and mountain hardware makes the compressor jacket. There are others. I'd just go for the intersection of fit & features you like with the best deal. My wife recently bought a discontinued Merrell jacket (60g primaloft with a hood) with a total weight around 1 lb from sierra trading post, and with a 35% coupon got the total price down to around $50 shipped.

I'll say this -- I'm a total convert to the lightweight synthetic puffy, and will probably never carry fleece again.