View Full Version : Convince me to get a tarp (or not)
Odd Man Out
11-15-2010, 17:59
I have previously used old-fashioned bomb-proof double walled tents (Eureka Timberline, e.g.) but am looking to buy an UL tent for long distance and/or section hiking (three season). Have considered TT Contrail or Moment, SMD Lunar Solo, GG The One, and ZPacks Hexamid Solo Tent (my preference seems to change depending on what day of the week it is).
But recently, I have been reconsidering the tarp option. I am attracted by the lower weight and versatility (tarps potentially could accommodate two people, be set up as a rain fly for cooking, pitched many ways, etc.).
However, I am concerned about tarps falling short in protection from the elements (i.e. cold, bugs and rain). Also, if you add an inner net tent for bugs and ground cover to keep you dry, are you really saving weight?
thanks in advance for any tips.
However, I am concerned about tarps falling short in protection from the elements (i.e. cold, bugs and rain). Also, if you add an inner net tent for bugs and ground cover to keep you dry, are you really saving weight?
You have the option of leaving the bug net/ground sheet at home. If you're concerned with the lack of protection from bugs, check out the Wild Oasis Tarp. (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tarps.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_smd.tpl&product_id=41&category_id=8) It has Mosquito netting skirting the bottom of it and it only weighs 13oz. I just got the Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn Tarp (http://gossamergear.com/shelters/shelters/spinntwinn-tarp.html) and love it. Its got plenty of room and could easily sleep two, but it only weighs 8.6 oz.
Tarps will give you protection from rain, but you have to practice with 'em a little.
mweinstone
11-15-2010, 18:26
black diamond megalite
144 sq ft of everlovin bacon spatterin area
no floor emergency pooping always there for ya in an emergency. comforting when sick.
cook, spill and rub.no mess ground by god of heaven
pitch low or high for total protection or breeze and veiw
invert teepee as bag liner for all your gear.
close off a shelter from a wind its a square 12 by 12
have company .sleeps 4 adults and gear and dogs . all under 2lbs.
shed 90 mph wind and rain as others come a knockin fer shelter.
sets up in less than 70 seconds. one center pole 8 stakes.
packs wet for weeks with no prob
colects rainwater if needed
can be cowboy camped in by just rolling up in it un set up.its a blanket.
and the #1 reason u want the same tent matty uses for 25 plus years/.....
chicks come a knockin thinkin your me.folks drop bacon off assuming its matthewskis house. and the dude leaves his pack witch has candy , thinking hes in his friends house.
baltimore jack may squirril food and booze thinking its his tent. well, his half of mattys.
Check out Erik the Black's article on the topic and his 25 oz. shelter system HERE (http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/982/lightweight-backpacking-tents/).
Check out Erik the Black's article on the topic and his 25 oz. shelter system HERE (http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/982/lightweight-backpacking-tents/).
One thing I don't get about that article is he says Tyvek is only water resistant, not proof amd sil nylon is water-proof. I thought it was the other way around. Doesn't water sometimes bleed though silnylon?
mweinstone
11-15-2010, 18:35
not in a trillion years . tyvek is vulcan for "smells like male cat spray when old"
bigcranky
11-15-2010, 19:18
A large tarp can provide a lot more weather protection than many tents. More covered area, easier entry and exit, you can cook under it, see the world, watch the sunrise and sunset, see the wildlife, etc. The most important rule of tarping is choosing a good site -- and you'll either learn that pretty quickly, or else you'll always be wet and miserable.
Bug protection is easy enough with some netting, or a head net or small bug bivy. There are some places where bug protection is crucial, but many others where it's not really a big deal.
An 8x10 foot sil nylon tarp is a great size to start. Lots of room, easy to pitch in several different configurations, can cover two people.
Those tarp tents you mentioned are all good choices, too. More like a tent, of course.
Old Spice
11-15-2010, 21:30
The most important rule of tarping is choosing a good site -- and you'll either learn that pretty quickly, or else you'll always be wet and miserable.
What should a tarper look for when selecting a site? I started my hike in 06 with a tarp, but didn't really know what I was doing and switched to a hammock. I love how comfortable I sleep in it, but am still intrigued by the elegant minimalism of a tarp
set-up.
Doesn't water sometimes bleed though silnylon?
Only through the single sided coating used by many to save weight and cost..the good stuff costs more.
But it really very waterproof. :D
Bags4266
11-15-2010, 21:50
Only through the single sided coating used by many to save weight and cost..the good stuff costs more.
But it really very waterproof. :D
Oh, I did not know there was single sided sil. I thought it the sil was pressed through to both sides!:)
One thing I don't get about that article is he says Tyvek is only water resistant, not proof amd sil nylon is water-proof. I thought it was the other way around. Doesn't water sometimes bleed though silnylon?
Silnylon is waterproof according to Speer Hammocks.
The Product Handbook for DuPont Tyvek says it has "The unique ability to resist air and water penetration".
Wise Old Owl
11-15-2010, 22:20
Getting back to Odd Man's Out's Question -
I cannot change your opinion, I can only sway your thoughts. It is up for you to decide tarp or UL tent. Both lack some comfort, both offer ease of setup, What will you give up or achieve?
Tyvek isn't waterproof, it breathes too well. It will work for awhile but eventually it will wet out. If you are only dealing with thundershowers, then it will work well for a shelter and have less condensation issues then most materials. However, most people are using Tyvek for a ground cloth and not a shelter so it works well for that. Silnylon is what many tarps and tents are made out of, most people who use it seem to think its waterproof. My first 8x10 silnylon tarp seemed to be.
The advantage of tarping is you can pitch in less then ideal sites. You don't need a full tent footprint to pitch, just enough space for you sleeping bag. The tarp can overlap bushes, logs, rocks etc. The tarp will not have the condenstation issues most single wall shelters have. You can pack up everything, including the ground cloth while under the tarp while it rains. You can even do you business before setting off under it. Packing it up wet doesn't cause problems since its only the top of your gound cloth that you want to keep dry which is easy to do by careful packing. Weigh issues favor a tarp though the difference is less then it use to be unless you go for the expensive options like cuben fiber.
Bugs can be dealt with by wearning a headnet over a hat to bed, using a bivy sack, or some other sort of netting. Some will want more space to spend hours in which means heavier netting options or just give up and go with a tent. Tarping works better for those who are hikers, not campers in buggy areas. Many nights I don't need any netting at all, though I do check the ground for ants before setting up camp. Wind blown rain requires some skill to deal with, but its not a big deal.
The downside is the lack of bathtube floor meaning that in rain, meaning you need to select a sight where the water won't pool. Most heavy used campsites have a slight depression where 20years of tents have compacted the ground. My preference is to pick slightly sloping ground since I like my feet slightly elevated overnight as they feel better in the morning after a long day of hiking. Choosing sheltered spots in trees, behind boulders, etc help deal with some of the wind blown issues of bad weather. Even in exposed campsites, I don't have much problem staying dry though it does take more skill in pitching then a tent.
Tarping isn't for everyone. Some people will have pyschological issues with the openness especially with the idea of crawling things (which have never bothered me). Some have issues with learning to set up properly for windy bad weather or with picking a good tarp campsite which is different from a good tent site. Some people just like having walls between them and nature.
I have a Gossamer Gear One and two different tarps. To make the tarps equivalent in functionality to The One, I have to add some kind of bug netting. Then there is the fact that one of my tarps is a poncho and so does double-duty. I did the math on the weights and functionalities and The One +umbrella is heaviest, the poncho + bug net + bivy sack is lightest and the big 8x10 tarp + umbrella + bug net is in the middle.
However, for ease of use, The One is better. Plus the weight difference is only about 6 ounces. One item does everything I need in a shelter. I ended up preferring it.
But I'll still carry my tarp every now and then. I like being more open to the world. I think it's fun to set it up different ways.
I would say get a tarp so you can play with it. You might might end up liking it better for some purposes but not others and then you'll have a choice.
Blissful
11-15-2010, 23:06
I love my freestanding tent. Warm, easy to set up on tent platforms, and good in relentless thunderstorms with heavy wind and rain...
Consider this, by the time you add a bug net, bivy, stakes, etc to your tarp set-up what does it all weigh? You may do just as well to look into a Lunar Solo or another like brand.
I carry a tarp on occasion but used an MSR Hubba HP on my thru. I'd consider a tarp next time- with a bug net.
I haven't seen a tarp plus bug net plus ground cloth setup that is any lighter than a Tarptent/Lightheart/Luna Solo... IMO, if you want bug protection (and I do), the integrated tarptents are the way to go.
Old Spice
11-16-2010, 10:52
All great stuff! I may just bring my hammock and a tarp and send one of the two back after I've had a week or two to experiment.
I have used the full range to some degree or other.
Full-on, double wall tent obviously offers the most protection in the widest range of conditions. Also the heaviest and least compact. Least problems with condesation affecting you - it's still present, just held at bay for the most part.
If you are reasonably experienced, willing to learn, and accept occasional "oops" nights, a tarp is great. More versatile as others have pointed out, often times more roomy and pleasant, less inherent bug protection. Can be light and compact. Easier to control condensation in most cases.
Tarptents and their ilk are, as the name implies, somewhere in-between. Some are closer to tents, others are closer to tarps. Most offer more consistent storm protection than a poorly pitched tarp - fewer "oops" nights. Still require proper site selection, most offer more bug protection. Most are quite light-weight and compact, rivaling and sometimes beating even a simple tarp.
Silnylon is pretty much waterproof, by normal standards, but it does cause condensation. This can mist down on you as additional rain or wind shake the fabric, thus many people claim the silnylon "leaks".
My current go-to shelter for the AT, three-season, is either my Gossamer Gear "The One" or my Six Moon Designs "Wild Oasis". Love them both, and have weathered high winds, pouring rain, and even snow/sleet. Normally no serious problems. One night with cold temps, all night hard rain, and ABSOLUTELY NO breeze, I did have severe condensation problems with "The ONE". A two walled tent would have been much better. This has been an exception of the general performance.
Those with limited back country experience would probably be better served and more secure with one of the lightweight double walled tents available. Something like the very popular Huba or Seedhouse. Also, if you plan to use your tent every night as opposed to shelters, the little bit of extra weight for these is more justified.
Totally personal decision. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
Rocket Jones
11-16-2010, 12:45
Lately I've been considering the idea of carrying a small tarp along with my tarptent if an extended rain is expected. The idea being that I could set up a small porch under the tarp, and leave one side of my tent open to reduce condensation problems.
bigcranky
11-16-2010, 13:20
What should a tarper look for when selecting a site? I started my hike in 06 with a tarp, but didn't really know what I was doing and switched to a hammock. I love how comfortable I sleep in it, but am still intrigued by the elegant minimalism of a tarp
set-up.
Miner gets it right (above.) The key is to make sure that water can't run under the tarp in heavy rain. That means you can't set up in any "obvious campsite" -- the ground is packed down hard, and usually lower than the surroundings.
I like to set up on the forest duff -- several inches of leaves and other compost found on the forest floor. Water doesn't run off this surface, it gets absorbed into it, even in heavy rain. Tall grass is another good surface, plus both of these are a lot softer than packed down campsites.
If you take a long, careful look at your proposed campsite, you can usually visualize where the water will go (hint: downhill) during an overnight thunderstorm.
bigcranky
11-16-2010, 13:20
Lately I've been considering the idea of carrying a small tarp along with my tarptent if an extended rain is expected. The idea being that I could set up a small porch under the tarp, and leave one side of my tent open to reduce condensation problems.
This works really well. Provides a good spot to cook in the rain, too.
Odd Man Out
11-16-2010, 14:47
I have used the full range to some degree or other.
Full-on, double wall tent obviously offers the most protection ...
If you are reasonably experienced, willing to learn, and accept occasional "oops" nights, a tarp is great...
Tarptents and their ilk are, as the name implies, somewhere in-between...
Totally personal decision. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
Great summary Lyle (edited to save space). I also like the idea of a tarptent with a small tarp for a rain fly to get the most flexibility. Not really the gram weenie solution, but I'm OK with that.
Wise Old Owl
11-16-2010, 15:44
Lyle's right it is a personal decision, I was frustrated when someone recommended hanging so I tried it in the backyard with a "cheapy" and a tarp both on a good night and a heavy rain night. I always test equipment in the yard before going out. I discovered tarps and bivys are great and easy to get used to so long as you are not claustrophobic. One also has to be ready to get wet, Its not a perfect set up. Hense what are you willing to give up, as you go lighter. I have woken up way to close to nature that a tent would have avoided. What you gain are nights under the stars, awe inspiring views to wake up to. You won't have to "jump" out of the tent to see something.
Hanging requires a few nights to get used to , because of the Banana like sleep without tossing.
Double Wall Tents are now hard to come by because of price and although can be used year round, I have only used them in the dead of winter.
Turtle Feet
11-16-2010, 15:49
I'm currently using a OES Delux size SpinnUL tarp (www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com)) that covers (and then some) my Warbonnet Blackbird hammock (www.warbonnetoutdoors.net (http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.net)) .
I'm in the process of making some noseeum 'skins' to use to gather the hammock up in 'tube' fashion along it's ridgeline (rather than stuffing it into a sack) LEAVING IT HANGING. I could then use my alcohol stove easily under the tarp to cook if weather dictates, and simply push the skins back to each end of the hammock when I'm finished.
Total weight of hammock and tarp including suspension for both is exactly 3lbs.
turtle feet
Turtle Feet
11-16-2010, 15:52
Oooops - add 4oz to that total weight for 8 stakes (6 for tarp, 2 for hammock) and bag for stakes.
tf
sparky2000
11-16-2010, 16:17
I like the double useage of the poncho/shelter (8oz.) merged with a emergency tent (5oz.) for ground cloth and back up water protection,+ 4oz. for line and pegs.
I haven't seen a tarp plus bug net plus ground cloth setup that is any lighter than a Tarptent/Lightheart/Luna Solo...
Well now you have. :D 14.5oz total for my summer tarp setup.
MLD Grace Solo Tarp in Cuben Fiber +line with 8 titanium stakes=8.5oz
MLD Bug Bivy=6oz (no need for ground cloth)
If I use my MLD superbivy for better weather protection and warmth, then I have to add an ounce of weight.
Montana AT05
11-16-2010, 18:31
Shelters are to hikers as women are to men.
1. You always want the newest model
2. You can't wait to get it and when you finally commit to getting it, you can't wait to test it, yet secretly worry you lack the right experience
3. You show it off to everyone around you (which annoys everyone around you)
4. Once you get comfortable with it, you start eyeing other people's shelters and thinking, "Hey that looks pretty neat, maybe I should get that one."
5. You finally upgrade to the newest new shelter and repeat steps 1 thru 4.
6. At some point, you break from this pattern and do two things: 1) reminisce about how wonderful your old old shelter really was, and 2) try to find it and, if successful, quickly realize why you upgraded.
Ya...I'm single. Gee I wonder why? <smack>
On a semi-serious note:
My current girlfriend, err shelter preference is:
Gossamer Gear Spinntwinn tarp
Hennesey Hammock Hyperlight
Mountain Laurel Design Bug Bivy (luxury)
Single person width ground cloth (luxury)
In truth I only need the spinntwinn and hammock, the hammock can double as a bivy, ground cloth if I don't hang for the evening, though I prefer to avoid that wear and tear by carrying the luxury items (which together weigh maybe 6-7 oz).
If you go with a tent, I advise a comletely free standing one. MSR has some excellent ones which, while heavy for single seaters, are easy to set up and very nice overall. I've had a lot of MSR tent envy on my various long distance hikes.
Also, take into consideration your hiking style, if stop early to camp, rise late, are in wet or buggy conditions, this can push you one way or another (I have a 2 person Big Agnes tent I've used for bicycle touring and car camping).
Johnny Thunder
11-16-2010, 19:52
I haven't seen a tarp plus bug net plus ground cloth setup that is any lighter than a Tarptent/Lightheart/Luna Solo... IMO, if you want bug protection (and I do), the integrated tarptents are the way to go.
the mld solo mid (w/ bug skirt) and six moons tarp version of the lunar solo are both lighter than the three tarp tents you've listed. they all offer livable space as well.
the real question is: are you read you to make the occasional functionality sacrifice in the name of weight savings/redundant gear.
Montana AT05, I have to agree with your theory. Even after 3.5years and one thru-hike, my current tarp setup will likely last me for years and its not like I'm going to find something significantly lighter until the next new fabric shows up. But I'm still lusting after that Z-Packs Hexamid shelter just because its different then what I have.
Montana AT05
11-17-2010, 03:19
Miner, that is because we are both 40 and are having our mid-hike gear crisis.
mcskinney
11-17-2010, 06:28
I use a Golite Shangra-la 1 w/ the nest, its everything you need in a shelter. It's well ventilated- Dual peak vents! Plus the 2010 model has a dual zipper so you really have 3 vents (two in the same vestibule) which is great when stormed in and cooking in the vestibule.
Bugproof- The nest has a bathtub floor and fully closed and zippered "no see em" mess.
Shelter is 1lb 3oz i think and the nest is just under a lb. That's basically a 2lb shelter and its got all the room 1 person will ever need. I bought it to replace my Golite Trig 1 which I didn't think ventilated all that well when the side flaps were down (no peak vent). That trig 1 is for sale by the way if anyone wants it PM me.
Anyway that's my 2 cents on the Shangrala 1 if anyone was considering it. I'm the proud owner of 6 tents and its my absolute favorite!
nispeer89
12-02-2010, 13:51
For tarp camping using a ridgeline how much cord should i bring?
Bags4266
12-02-2010, 14:18
For tarp camping using a ridgeline how much cord should i bring?
I carry 30 feet for a ridge.
I remember when Tarptent received an endorsement early in 2004 from Backpacker or Outside Magazine, and getting one was difficult. I was able to get the single person model with the full beak. I start my 2004 AT hike with it, and I was somewhat of a shelter rat until Damascus, and then I really started using it. There was a problem with the back hoop pole and it broke ripping through the back of the tent.
I called Henry and told him about the situation. Henry upgraded me for free to a two person model for the extra lateral room and minimal added weight. Also replacing the full beak with a half beak to improve ventilation. I used it for the rest of my AT thru-hike.
On the PCT I pitched my Tarpent 3 times before the High Sierras. The mosquitoes were so bad that from that point on, I cowboy camped only a few times - the Tarptent went up every night. When I misplaced the back pole in North California in 2008, I called Henry back up and it was like $10 to have one mailed to my next resupply town.
On the CDT 2010, I pitched my tarp tent once in New Mexico, then it went up almost every night in Colorado because of the rain. For 300 miles in Colorado I had my 16 year old son 5' 10" hiking with me and in the Tarptent too - It's a two person model.
Sorry for the long background, I've be using the same Tarptent (Squall I believe) for seven years. No modifications, just added 2 V stakes and replaced the stuff sack to make it easier to pack up. It has netting and a sewn-in floor (not the bathtub option), which in my opinion are a necessity - not only for bug and rain spray, but adds some structure and stability. I use one of my hiking poles for the front, and adjust it the height of the Tarptent to the weather. I tried to place the back of the Tarptent into the wind, or have trees or some else blocking the wind. I have always used down sleeping bags and haven't had a problem keeping one dry enough to get me warm yet. My shelter setup is 28 oz complete. It packs down pretty small - which leaves more room in my backpack for the times when I have to carry extra food, water, or cold weather gear. Condensation is manageable even with two people in the Tarptent.
My exact model isn't available but there is a Squall 2 now. Check it out: http://tarptent.com/products.html
On shorter hikes I'm usually hiking with someone and I tend to carry a double wall tent, the MSR Hubba Hubba with carbon fiber poles. Right at 4 lbs, which isn't bad - 2 lbs. per person.
I too was apprehensive about using a tarp on a long hike, but decided to take a chance anyway. I was surprised at how easy it was to get the hang of it. As mentioned, site selection is key. Only twice did I get wet, and both times were because I was careless about choosing a site. I love my tarp, and intend on using it from now on whenever possible. That being said, if you do choose a tarp, let me offer one piece of advice. If you will be hiking at a time of year when the bugs get bad, for the love of god, get some bug netting. I found this out the hard way. For some reason I overlooked this one small detail and paid the price. During this summer's heat wave I spent four consecutive nights zipped up in my sleeping bag sweating profusely (nighttime temps in the mid to upper eighties). It was so bad that I had to wake up several times a night to drink water. I also found out that mosquitos will bite you on the lips, since this was the only skin that was exposed. I cannot stress the need for bug netting enough. This was the most miserable experience of my hike.
Pony, I'm interested knowing more about your bug net setup. Where did you buy it and did you need to trim any off the bottom for a better fit? Also, describe your method of hanging it.
Looks much better than my attempts!
I too was apprehensive about using a tarp on a long hike, but decided to take a chance anyway. I was surprised at how easy it was to get the hang of it. As mentioned, site selection is key. Only twice did I get wet, and both times were because I was careless about choosing a site. I love my tarp, and intend on using it from now on whenever possible. That being said, if you do choose a tarp, let me offer one piece of advice. If you will be hiking at a time of year when the bugs get bad, for the love of god, get some bug netting. I found this out the hard way. For some reason I overlooked this one small detail and paid the price. During this summer's heat wave I spent four consecutive nights zipped up in my sleeping bag sweating profusely (nighttime temps in the mid to upper eighties). It was so bad that I had to wake up several times a night to drink water. I also found out that mosquitos will bite you on the lips, since this was the only skin that was exposed. I cannot stress the need for bug netting enough. This was the most miserable experience of my hike.
Pony, that sounds painful. wow.
The net looks like the mosquito nets we were issued in Peace Corps (East Africa malarial afrea).
Pony, I'm interested knowing more about your bug net setup. Where did you buy it and did you need to trim any off the bottom for a better fit? Also, describe your method of hanging it.
Looks much better than my attempts!
If you look closely, I think you can see how I rigged the end with a stick and tied it to my trekking pole. After several very uncomfortable nights, it didn't take me too long to figure out a way to set it up.
Pony, that sounds painful. wow.
The net looks like the mosquito nets we were issued in Peace Corps (East Africa malarial afrea).
Yeah, it wasn't the most enjoyable part of my hike, but a huge relief once I got the bug net.