View Full Version : Knee Pain,"minor", late in the day
ChinMusic
11-16-2010, 17:53
I just did a section between Hiawassee and Fontana (10-12 miles/day). It was my longest continuous stretch on the AT and I was biting off more miles than I would to start a future thru.
At the end of the longer days I was noticing knee pain going down hill. Ups and flats didn't bother me. A co-hiker had a knee brace, which I would wear the next day (just in case) and I did fine. Later in the week I left off the brace and had the same thing happen late in the day on downhills.
I have never had knee pain before and now that I am home the knee feels just fine. It was only late in the day, on downhills did it bother me.
This confirms my idea of starting a thru slow even though I know I could do more. I suspect it was just an over-use issue where I was pushing what my knee could do.
Anyone else notice knees doing just fine only to be a bother late in the day? Am I right that it is just probably from going too far too soon (coming from flat-land Illinois)?
I'm thinking of carrying a brace "just in case" at the beginning of a thru but starting with 7ish-mile days.
I have had the same thing, down hill not up. But I felt I pushed too hard earlier. Really hurt, thought I would never hike again. I started taking some over the counter "joint" supplements. Never had the pains again, I was about your age when it all started.....With a lighter pack and some regular exercise, I rarely, if ever, have knee pain. Find what works and stick with it. Good luck.
Mizirlou
11-16-2010, 18:03
Flatlanders gotta acquire mountain legs. Me, I drive from FL to GA, hike a 14-mile strenuous section in a day, drive home writhing in pain. After a week it’s all good. Then I go back up to GA or NC or wherever and hike my face off without probs. (I always wear Chopats on day #1.) A pansy schedule, I realize, but that one-week healing period saves my legs for better & longer days.
Yes, I have this same problem. Downhill is rougher on the knees than flat or uphill.
Trekking poles helped me a lot. Also make an effort to put your feet down lightly.
If it starts to hurt bad enough and you still have to walk for some distance, lock your knees as much as possible (and be super careful to put your feet down lightly while you're doing this).
I wouldn't advise it, but it does relieve the pain to turn around and walk backwards...
Rick, I also use 2 poles now. And I have "walked that walk" even backwards! Almost funny to hear other folks experience this as all I ever seen to see are young guns, tearing down the trail.
Wise Old Owl
11-16-2010, 18:24
There are different kinds of knee pain, some are arthritis others from stretching, and don't forget inflamation, one should read up on one of the medical sites and don't forget to have a discussion with a doctor and learn to ice up, or heat pack, and elevate.
http://www.medicinenet.com/knee_pain/article.htm
ChinMusic
11-16-2010, 18:30
If it starts to hurt bad enough and you still have to walk for some distance, lock your knees as much as possible (and be super careful to put your feet down lightly while you're doing this).
LOL, this is exactly what I had to do the first time it bothered me. As long as I kept the right leg fairly straight it felt better. I felt that I couldn't do this for very long or something else would go.
The pressure of the knee brace made it feel better too. I really don't know why. The brace (3-strap model) didn't seem like it was doing much but I guess just keeping the knee a bit tighter can do the trick. I do know that my hiking pants were soaked with sweat on that knee once I took off the brace and it wasn't all that warm out.
I do use poles. I honestly don't see how folks go without em. I'd fall for sure.
LOL, this is exactly what I had to do the first time it bothered me. As long as I kept the right leg fairly straight it felt better. I felt that I couldn't do this for very long or something else would go.
The pressure of the knee brace made it feel better too. I really don't know why. The brace (3-strap model) didn't seem like it was doing much but I guess just keeping the knee a bit tighter can do the trick. I do know that my hiking pants were soaked with sweat on that knee once I took off the brace and it wasn't all that warm out.
I do use poles. I honestly don't see how folks go without em. I'd fall for sure.It could be that your knee somehow became slightly injured but if it was chilly out it could unfortunately just be a slight onset of arthritis in that knee. I think when we are young the reason we don't have many aches and pains is due to the fact that are bodies are young, and the cartilege surrounding our joints and the joints themselves are thick and strong. Fast foward to our later years and the cartilege and joints have become worn. The joints themselves don't have as much cartilege to cushion them as before, and eventually the joint begins to hurt if we overdo it, especially later in the day after long hours of exertion. You may consider trying Glucosamine-Chondroiten, or one of the other joint supplements that are offered. They do seem to help some people. Hiking down hill, walking down stairs, etc...does put more strain on the knee joint. This is most likely why you felt the pain more while doing that instead of on the up-hills. If the pain worsens or becomes chronic you would be wise to get it checked out by a professional, but most likely unless you somehow injured it recently it may just be due to overuse, the dampness and cold, and the ravages of time we all face.
I have the same problem going downhill after i hike over 10 miles or so. The thing I found that works for me is a "patellar tendon strap". I got it at REI and it has definitely been worth the $20 I spent on it. I hope you find something that works for you.
the goat
11-16-2010, 19:18
Anyone else notice knees doing just fine only to be a bother late in the day? Am I right that it is just probably from going too far too soon (coming from flat-land Illinois)?
I'm thinking of carrying a brace "just in case" at the beginning of a thru but starting with 7ish-mile days.
yes, i get the same thing at the beginning of a longer hike. mine always goes away after a couple weeks.
in my case, i'm sure i wouldn't have any pain were my pack not so gigantic.
Blissful
11-16-2010, 20:00
I learned that the hard way while in VA this last spring. Same thing - knee pain on downhills.
Start low miles and work your way up, even if you think you can do more. Your limbs cannot until the ligaments stretch. Don't carry more than three days of food. And I am all for the cho pat knee brace (http://www.cho-pat-store.com/chopat_ChoPDulAtn.html?source=YahooMSN_Cho_PatDual Action) Saved my SOBO and my hike in New England. I had two and would use them on downhills in Mahoosucs and the Whites, then shipped one home after Glencliff and kept the other for my bad knee which I wore the entire hike
Make sure your footwear is correct too
MkBibble
11-16-2010, 22:29
Amen to all of the above: cho-pat straps, locked knees, and walking backwards down hills (alot...). By far the biggest help for me was adding poles.
I have lots of knee pain - every day. My left knee was messed up by a Chrysler station wagon which had its way with my bicycle when I was 19. My right knee has arthritis. One thing which has helped is going to a lighter shoe. I used to wear custom Limmer boots (5 lb. for the pair). One day I noticed that when I lifted my knee it would separate slightly (the left one) and click back together when I put weight back on it. Now, with lighter shoes I don't notice the separation of the knee joint and my knees, though still sore after a long day, are less so.
ChinMusic
11-16-2010, 22:54
I feel for you guys that have to deal with chronic knee pain. I only had it for a short period and it sucked.
I'm 100% now and was pretty much 100% when I left Fontana.
fredmugs
11-17-2010, 10:22
I'm a little more hardcore than you are but I'll throw this out there for what it's worth. I found that I would get knee pain if I did 15 miles a day. Then in 2005 I was hiking in Maine and I wrenched my knee really bad. It sounded like a socket wrench whenever I moved it up and down.
I started wearing a knee brace and found that it really slowed me down and I hated wearing it. I began riding an exercise bike. At first I was doing 20 minute workout which increased to 30 and then 45. I now can do 60 minutes no problem.
As I got stronger on the exercise bike my knee pain went away. I no longer wear any type of knee brace and I do not take glucosomine, chondroitin, or any of that other stuff. I will take ibuprofen as a precautionary measure.
Prior to my AT section hikes I do zero hiking. I either ride an exercise bike or a real one and I can hit the trail and do 20 miles on day 1 with no knee issues whatsoever.
I highly recommend riding some type of bike. It strengthened my knees without having any of the impact issues I would have with running, etc. I haven't had any knee issues the last 3 years or so.
C Seeker
11-17-2010, 10:38
I use trekking poles with the shocks for the down hill. When you use the trekking poles for flat level have your arms at a 90 degree angle. Then for the down hills make them a little longer and lean on to them. This takes 20 or so pounds off of your knees (and your knees will thank you.) One other tip I have learned is when your left foot takes a step move your right pole follows, right foot moves your left arm moves. Then if you have to jump down something then put both poles down before you step down.
Something else is to take smaller steps down. Foot placement is a big part of it. Instead of taking one one foot step down you take three 4 inch steps.
the location of the knee pain also defines the problem. What you described (knee pain at end of the day on downhills) could be Illotibial band syndrome, if the pain is felt on the outside of the knee. Proper stretching is very important to alleviate or prevent knee and foot problems in hiking. There are several stretching and strengthening exercises that help prevent illotibial band syndrome. I also use the cho-pat knee brace and it works wonders.
TheYoungOne
11-17-2010, 11:55
I'm only 41 and I use poles. I did a lot of Karate and basketball when I was younger and my left knee has been giving me issues as I get older. The poles help a lot and I never had knee problem when hiking. I usually bring a brace just in case.
gravityman
11-17-2010, 12:01
What Praha4 said +1.
ITBS if its on the outside of the knee. Rest will be the only sure cure until the pain goes away. The co-pat didn't work for me.
Orthotics fixed my problem permanently.
Gravity
Kerosene
11-17-2010, 12:46
As the OP mentioned that this only occurred at the end of a long day, and then mildly at first on the downhills, I'm going to venture that his quadriceps are relatively weak. Your quads help to stabilize the entire knee, and are especially stressed on steep downhills with extra weight on your back.
I've experienced this once, after a quick descent of Moosilauke where my quads were screaming. Earlier this year I ruptured one "head" of my left quad, which has resulted in knee pain. I'm doing a lot of stairs, cycling, and "step downs" to start improving strength. Stand on a lower step on one leg, holding the handrail for support. Ensure your hips are level and kneecap pointed straight ahead. Keeping your knee behind your toes, take your other leg below the step and almost try to sit down a few inches. Start with half the heighth of the step and go lower as you get stronger. You should feel your upper body arc forward, which puts more stress on the quad and will allow you to keep your knee well behind your toe. 3 sets of 15, every other day.
Cho-pat straps work for some people, and trekking poles allow you to take some of the weight off the knee on the downhill. Taking smaller steps, and even "switchbacking" down the trail periodically will also help. Take a few breaks on long, steep descents.
Knee-strengthening Exercises (http://www.bigkneepain.com/knee-exercises.html#kneestrengtheningexercises)
ChinMusic
11-17-2010, 12:58
Nope. Def not weak quads. I lift regularly (lunges, squats, extensions, press, etc.) and have very strong legs.
Switchbacking on a straight trail does help.
4eyedbuzzard
11-17-2010, 14:01
Hmm, you're 50+ years old and your knees hurt a bit after strenous hiking. And a brace helps. Hmm . . .
The good news is you have the knees of a 50 year old.
The bad news is you have the knees of a 50 year old.
ChinMusic
11-17-2010, 14:05
Hmm, you're 50+ years old and your knees hurt a bit after strenous hiking. And a brace helps. Hmm . . .
The good news is you have the knees of a 50 year old.
The bad news is you have the knees of a 50 year old.
Yeah, all-in-all I feel pretty lucky.
4eyedbuzzard
11-17-2010, 14:17
Yeah, all-in-all I feel pretty lucky.
Me too, different body part that's messed up with me (back). But I can hike, play golf, do most work - mostly just heavy lifting over 40 lbs and certain motions I had to give up. I pay attention to the pain as a warning sign to slow down, stop, use a brace, etc. I think a lot of it's just part of aging and wear and tear, and injuries, of course.
It could be that your knee somehow became slightly injured but if it was chilly out it could unfortunately just be a slight onset of arthritis in that knee. I think when we are young the reason we don't have many aches and pains is due to the fact that are bodies are young, and the cartilege surrounding our joints and the joints themselves are thick and strong. Fast foward to our later years and the cartilege and joints have become worn. The joints themselves don't have as much cartilege to cushion them as before, and eventually the joint begins to hurt if we overdo it, especially later in the day after long hours of exertion. You may consider trying Glucosamine-Chondroiten, or one of the other joint supplements that are offered. They do seem to help some people. Hiking down hill, walking down stairs, etc...does put more strain on the knee joint. This is most likely why you felt the pain more while doing that instead of on the up-hills. If the pain worsens or becomes chronic you would be wise to get it checked out by a professional, but most likely unless you somehow injured it recently it may just be due to overuse, the dampness and cold, and the ravages of time we all face.
Are you insinuating we are getting OLD? If so, then you are absolutely 100% correct!:banana
Are you insinuating we are getting OLD? If so, then you are absolutely 100% correct!:bananaI don't know about anyone else but I sure know I am, and I feel it too:D! By the way I hope your knee is doing good!:http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=63440
Most of my knee pain has come when I'm trying to keep up with a younger, stronger hiker. For that reason I almost always hike alone. I also use poles on downhills. On a different note, last weekend I wasn't using poles and stepped down over an 18" ledge onto a root and turned my ankle inward. I walked the 6 miles out without much problem but now the ankle is still swollen and any long walks makes it hurt worse. I guess I out of commission for a few weeks.
Different Perspective
Think about a 52 year old car, do the doors "creak" when you open them? I will be 52 in the Spring, seems like the old car needs to go to the shop for something after every hike. My fall hike was really painful 90% of the time, arthroscopy on right knee 6 weeks ago, was planning on leaving today for Southern VA - knee is not ready and if you have not checked the weather down south, it is COLD - snow and ice would not be a smart or percentage hike for me right now.
A friend of mine says that "exercise is a daily responsibility", I try to focus on the areas that need work in-between my section hikes.
We are getting older, 52 year old bodies were not built to leave home and backpack on the rugged terrain of the At we all love so much, with a pack, every day for "x" days, and expect to come home pain free?
To me it is WHAT is going to get broke or hurt, not IF.............
4eyedbuzzard
12-11-2010, 10:43
My grandmother (RIP) used to say to me sometimes, "Don't get old . . .".
The alternative, however, just isn't my #1 choice. :eek:
I'm thinking I'll wind up very close to nature eventually anyway. :(
For now, I just accept that pain is nature's way of letting me know I'm still alive. :sun