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Tuts
11-17-2010, 23:08
I'm watchin an episode of Criminal Minds and it's about an Appalacian Trail killer. So the guy basically abducts kids from the trail and kills them. When they show the guy, he's got a shaggy beard, winter hat, and backpack. He looks exactly like a normal thru-hiker.
When I first decided to do the AT, everyone around me told me that it wasn't safe and the people get killed all the time out there. Stuff like this really burns me up because it's horrible trail PR and makes us shaggy thru-hikers out to be, at the very least, untrustworthy. This is horrible PR for the trail and trail people. Can you tell I'm pissed?

trippclark
11-17-2010, 23:18
I sort of had the same thought. And it was not even a very good episode.

mweinstone
11-17-2010, 23:23
havent owned a tv for 5 years.but i think it sounds bad too.

Tuts
11-17-2010, 23:38
Yeah, oh and by the way, THE GUY GOT AWAY IN THE END AND WENT BACK TO THE TRAIL!!!!! I now hate that show.

TheChop
11-17-2010, 23:54
Beware of trail predator!

I think you're making a little too much out of this episode. Just looking at the overview of season six there has been a halloween themed killer, an Alzheimer's themed killer, etc.

Wise Old Owl
11-17-2010, 23:55
Tuts, you have a valid great point, and anyone watching this is now going to very afraid of other hikers, then Dogs, then bears, etc

Can you imagine someone wanting to do the trail alone and the angst they will have with relatives?

Don H
11-17-2010, 23:59
It'll keep the crowds down. Scare all the sissies away.

strollingalong
11-18-2010, 01:33
heads up, a good friend of mine is planning to film a low budget horror on the trail 2011.

Tuts
11-18-2010, 02:05
I'm sorry, but it does piss me off. When I made the decision about it, all sorts of people tried to convince me not to go because of how "dangerous" the people are. I knew it wasn't so, but I didn't realize how incredibly safe the whole thing really is. People look out for eachother, people are so incredibly nice, and even conversation is rarely dry. I just think that the stigma attached to it is exagerated tenfold by this kind of press. That's why I got so hot headed about it.

fiddlehead
11-18-2010, 08:20
Would you rather the trail be single file hiking with overcrowded everything?
Or, have it more to yourself.
Let them badmouth it. I've seen trails with way too many people on it and it's not good.

Lone Wolf
11-18-2010, 08:29
I'm watchin an episode of Criminal Minds and it's about an Appalacian Trail killer. So the guy basically abducts kids from the trail and kills them. When they show the guy, he's got a shaggy beard, winter hat, and backpack.


looks like every SOBO that comes through damascus

Pedaling Fool
11-18-2010, 08:52
When I first decided to do the AT, everyone around me told me that it wasn't safe and the people get killed all the time out there. Stuff like this really burns me up because it's horrible trail PR and makes us shaggy thru-hikers out to be, at the very least, untrustworthy. This is horrible PR for the trail and trail people. Can you tell I'm pissed?
Overreacting.

This will not harm the trail PR (if there is such a thing:rolleyes:)

A lot of people have that opinion (trail is unsafe). Those people don't express that specifically about the AT, that's their opinion of the outdoors in general.

The fact (and I'm not saying it's a fact) that people in general think hikers are "shaggy" or whatever doesn't affect my life in the least, so let them think what they want. Really the only people that matter are the ones in trail towns and no movie is going to effect their view of hikers.

warraghiyagey
11-18-2010, 08:54
He looks exactly like a normal thru-hiker.


That has to be an oxymoron. . . :p:)

warraghiyagey
11-18-2010, 08:55
Overreacting.

This will not harm the trail PR (if there is such a thing:rolleyes:)

A lot of people have that opinion (trail is unsafe). Those people don't express that specifically about the AT, that's their opinion of the outdoors in general.

The fact (and I'm not saying it's a fact) ...
Ummm. . . :-?

nitewalker
11-18-2010, 08:58
we need wingfoot to weigh in on this one.......

Pedaling Fool
11-18-2010, 09:01
Ummm. . . :-?
The fact is, I don't know and I don't care:)

warraghiyagey
11-18-2010, 09:03
The fact is, I don't know and I don't care:)
:D Well played. . . .

SGT Rock
11-18-2010, 11:50
Saw it. Looks like it was made in California somewhere. Vegitation was all wrong.

All the hikers wore blue jeans and flannel - like they just stepped out of a 1980's LL Bean poster. They even had folding stools in the campsite of the family that had the children kidnapped.

Also, noticed how they had the killer initially (like in the 90's) keeping his victim for months on the trail while he was doing thru-hikes. Amazing how a thru-hiker could make that happen without anyone noticing.

TheChop
11-18-2010, 11:56
Saw it. Looks like it was made in California somewhere. Vegitation was all wrong.



Most of those shows are either filmed in LA or Vancouver. No way they spend the money to get actual Appalachian foliage.

ki0eh
11-18-2010, 12:08
Amazing how a thru-hiker could make that happen without anyone noticing.

Wonder if that's the #1 myth among people who don't know the Trail - that there aren't people out there all the time. Think - Mark Sanford.

weary
11-18-2010, 12:26
Would you rather the trail be single file hiking with overcrowded everything?
Or, have it more to yourself.
Let them badmouth it. I've seen trails with way too many people on it and it's not good.
Speaking as someone who has spent much of his life working to expand outdoor opportunities, I'd say fiddlehead has the problem right, but the solution wrong.

The solution to crowded trails is not to promote lies to keep the crowds away, but to join the voices seeking to expand the available public outdoor hiking spaces.

Weary www.matlt.org

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 12:26
Would you rather the trail be single file hiking with overcrowded everything?
Or, have it more to yourself.
Let them badmouth it. I've seen trails with way too many people on it and it's not good.


I still think about the TP patches.:eek:

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 12:27
Speaking as someone who has spent much of his life working to expand outdoor opportunities, I'd say fiddlehead has the problem right, but the solution wrong.

The solution to crowded trails is not to promote lies to keep the crowds away, but to join the voices seeking to expand the available outdoor spaces.

Weary www.matlt.org (http://www.matlt.org)


Weary -- so how long have you been hearing voices? :D

weary
11-18-2010, 13:01
Weary -- so how long have you been hearing voices? :D
All my life. As a kid growing up there was Percival Baxter and his one man battle to protect the Katahdin area, and the Civil Coservation Corp workers that mostly ran the Dolly Copp campground, where my family spent every summer in the 1930s.

As a young adult I spent a decade in Chicago with its magificent public waterfront, and ring of forest preserves, echoes from land conservation voices of the past.

I returned to Maine as the environmental movement was beginning. The voices by then had risen to a crescendo. One man gave away nearly a thousand acres across the river from where I lived to create the state's first major beachfront state park. Another volunteer quietly bought up what became another thousand acres on my side of the river and persuaded the state to buy the land. That beach and tidal marsh system is now the heaviest used state park in Maine. I spent a month last year improving three miles of woodland trails in part of that park.

Then of course there were the handful of voices that fought the battle for the return of 400,000 acres that the state mistakingly believed it had sold for pennies an acre a century earlier. As Gov. Baxter had already showed, one need not be in the majority to win these battles, just to be right. The recovery that lead to the Mahoosuc, Bigelow and Nahmakanta public preserves along the route of the Appalachian Trail had to fight both the claimant landowners and the entire environmental movement in Maine in order to win.

I could continue. The voices are every where for those willing to listen. Like the man who walked door to door 60 years ago, buying up back lots, and shorefront alike, planning a massive recreational subdivision. But he fell in love with his land instead, and just let it remain wild, and giving all 2,000 acres to the Nature Conservancy as he approached death.

Try listening elderly owl. With effort, I'm sure you too can hear these voices.

Weary

Tuts
11-18-2010, 14:34
Perhaps I did overreact, but when something I love is portrayed as something it's not, I get offended. I've spent a lot of time educating kids and adults alike about the trail and trail life. Mostly they all have the same safety questions about murderers or child molesters or some such prominent criminal element. So many times I've explained to these people just what the trail life is about. I compare it to small town America where everybody knows everybody and meeting someone new is a great experience. I do, though, admit that very rarely murders do occur, as they do everywhere. When I see a popular TV show furthering the ignorant view, I feel like the work I've been doing has been seriously hurt. Overreacting? Probably, but for the right reasons.

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 14:50
Hell no Tuts - Now every hiker is going to be precieved as a child molester to the 1 million viewers of that stupid show... So you did not overreact.

I am a member of a business exchange organization and one member was just arrested age 40+ for having a relationship with a minor in the next county... All hell broke loose at the next meeting. It affects everyone. Its unacceptable.

Montana AT05
11-18-2010, 14:55
Guys...thru-hikers didn't invent the man-beard.

Majortrauma
11-18-2010, 15:08
Most of the people commenting appear to be wrapped around the axle about how this show may have portrayed thru-hikers or the technical details of "no white blazes".

Take a deep breath and relax. The show is essentially a good guy vs bad guy show and "most" of the time the good guys (BAU) wins. The actors on this show are actually very passionate about the crime fighting aspect of this branch of law enforcement and genuinely do not intend to portray, in this case hikers, in a bad way.

Old Spice
11-18-2010, 15:10
Maybe you can use this analogy with your family: The Law & Order series portrays NYC as a very dangerous place to live where people are frequently murdered, kidnapped, and raped. Yet 8.3 million people choose to live here and appear to feel safe. Who are you going to believe? A show or a fact. The same with the trail. Countless people have thru-hiked, section hiked, and day hiked the AT every year for many years. How many have come to a sinister end while doing so? Again, who to believe. A television show (and a tabloid style one it would seem) or a fact?

finskie
11-18-2010, 15:19
When the trail is calling, no rumors will stop you. Almost every guy i told about going on my longer sections has given me some myth about serial killers, bears, or other nonsense. Alot told me that I was stupid for not bringing a gun. In reality, people on the trail will truly give you the shirt off their back (although it's probably damp and dirty). In prudence, you must use common sense when dealing with people or animals. One of these common sense traditions is the "trail name" for example. I just love it when people who live in Philly tell me how dangerous and crazy the trail is, when people are getting shot or mugged in their area daily. I enjoy the fact that we are a mysterious "sub-culture" to the majority of society, and regardless of good or bad PR, it will probably stay that way.

the goat
11-18-2010, 15:21
I'm watchin an episode of Criminal Minds and it's about an Appalacian Trail killer. So the guy basically abducts kids from the trail and kills them. When they show the guy, he's got a shaggy beard, winter hat, and backpack. He looks exactly like a normal thru-hiker.
When I first decided to do the AT, everyone around me told me that it wasn't safe and the people get killed all the time out there. Stuff like this really burns me up because it's horrible trail PR and makes us shaggy thru-hikers out to be, at the very least, untrustworthy. This is horrible PR for the trail and trail people. Can you tell I'm pissed?

on the bright side, hopefully this will keep more people at home, which is fine by me.....

max patch
11-18-2010, 15:41
Its just a stupid tv show.

This over-reaction is funny.

max patch
11-18-2010, 15:42
........

on the bright side, hopefully this will keep more people at home, which is fine by me.....

+1

Tilly
11-18-2010, 16:08
There will always be a (majority) of people who would rather be inside thier house/car/workplace because of the perception that the outside world is 'too dangerous', w/or w/out shows about serial killers.

This does not only go for hiking, but general traveling alone, walking around at night, using your bike to get to work, etc.

On another topic, these are beautiful, crisp, fall days we are having, with highs in the fifities and sunshine. Most people are complaining that it's too cold and that they wish winter was over (tho it hasn't even started it.)

I guess the moral of the story is that most people are housecats, most people enjoy their comfort zones, and you can't worry too much about what they think or what their perceptions are, since you have no control over them.

Blissful
11-18-2010, 16:18
When the trail is calling, no rumors will stop you. Almost every guy i told about going on my longer sections has given me some myth about serial killers, bears, or other nonsense.


Yes, the same things. And for a solo female hiker it's - aren't you scared? Isn't it dangerous? There are predators. etc. I tell others that its more dangerous walking down the street in your town. Already just this past week 2 students at UVA college were robbed and assaulted. I would not walk UVA alone at night. But no problem walking by headlamp on the trail.

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 18:45
Most of the people commenting appear to be wrapped around the axle about how this show may have portrayed thru-hikers or the technical details of "no white blazes".

Take a deep breath and relax. The show is essentially a good guy vs bad guy show and "most" of the time the good guys (BAU) wins. The actors on this show are actually very passionate about the crime fighting aspect of this branch of law enforcement and genuinely do not intend to portray, in this case hikers, in a bad way.

You haven't had hikers run away from you on the trail yet.....

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 18:51
Maybe you can use this analogy with your family: The Law & Order series portrays NYC as a very dangerous place to live where people are frequently murdered, kidnapped, and raped. Yet 8.3 million people choose to live here and appear to feel safe. Who are you going to believe? A show or a fact. The same with the trail. Countless people have thru-hiked, section hiked, and day hiked the AT every year for many years. How many have come to a sinister end while doing so? Again, who to believe. A television show (and a tabloid style one it would seem) or a fact?

303 million people choose not to live in NYC

And you are right - its has a better crime rate than Detroit, Memphis, and Camden. Still wouldn't live there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

walkin' wally
11-18-2010, 19:14
Its just a stupid tv show.

This over-reaction is funny.

You're right, it is a stupid TV show episode about violence against children for the sake of selling advertising to corporate America. Not only stupid but sick. They must be running out of ideas for America fascination with murder.

yari
11-18-2010, 19:24
I guess the moral of the story is that most people are housecats, .

Does that make us outdoor dogs? :D

Rick Hancock
11-18-2010, 20:19
I saw the episode, one good thing Dr Reed got the number of states the trail goes through and the mileage correct. It was supposed to of happened in Pa. and most of the families had "car camping" gear. They've had past episodes that portrayed Massanutten Mt. Hampton, Va. etc. It's just a show, and a pretty good one.

Trailbender
11-18-2010, 21:55
There will always be a (majority) of people who would rather be inside thier house/car/workplace because of the perception that the outside world is 'too dangerous', w/or w/out shows about serial killers.

This does not only go for hiking, but general traveling alone, walking around at night, using your bike to get to work, etc.

On another topic, these are beautiful, crisp, fall days we are having, with highs in the fifities and sunshine. Most people are complaining that it's too cold and that they wish winter was over (tho it hasn't even started it.)

I guess the moral of the story is that most people are housecats, most people enjoy their comfort zones, and you can't worry too much about what they think or what their perceptions are, since you have no control over them.

Yeah, I am too far to drive to the AT often, it's a little over 3 hours away, but I hike at several local parks a couple times a week. I usually do it all day, and cook a meal on my esbit stove. It has white blazes just like the AT, and I can kinda pretend I'm doing a thru for a few hours, at least. It is still a nice park, even though the trail is short, it is a continuous loop, so you can do it all day.

weary
11-18-2010, 23:34
I'm always bothered by popular accounts that distort the nature of the trail, and by alleged trail supporters who claim to welcome such distortions because it keeps the public away.

The trail had to be rescued once by public institutions when it was near collapse. The rescue happened because the idea of a long distance trail built by volunteers struck a chord with the general public. The general public responded, Congress acted, and the trail survived much to the surprise and opposition of many.

Those who think the trail is now permanently protected and that it now can best be protected by discouraging public interest and participation (crowds) simply lack any perception of the nature of political life in a democracy.

Weary

General Fireball
11-18-2010, 23:52
Being from New Jersey--the mountainous part where the AT is--I am quite familiar with the feeling of having my State misrepresented (well, mostly misrepresented) in popular culture, just like this show misrepresents the AT. Snooki makes my skin crawl. But in the end, it's best to shrug it off. If a person buys into some stereotype fed them by mass media--well, it says more about them that about the thing being stereotyped . . .

kayak karl
11-18-2010, 23:54
You're right, it is a stupid TV show episode about violence against children for the sake of selling advertising to corporate America. Not only stupid but sick. They must be running out of ideas for America fascination with murder.
and thats the reason you do NOT watch it! RIGHT:D

4eyedbuzzard
11-19-2010, 00:15
Being from New Jersey--the mountainous part where the AT is--I am quite familiar with the feeling of having my State misrepresented (well, mostly misrepresented) in popular culture, just like this show misrepresents the AT. Snooki makes my skin crawl. But in the end, it's best to shrug it off. If a person buys into some stereotype fed them by mass media--well, it says more about them that about the thing being stereotyped . . .

Misrepresented? Well, yes in terms of everybody in NJ being like characters portrayed in Jersey Shore, Jerseylicious, The Sopranos, etc. But I lived in NJ for several decades, and I knew people just like Snooki - and Tony Soprano. But just like all Californians being like characters from 90210, the stereotypes are taken from real life - in these cases art does mimics life. But I have to tell you, after living in UT, CO, and now NH, I could never live in NJ again. Too hectic, too impersonal / impolite, and too much of a nanny / police state.

Johnny Thunder
11-19-2010, 00:24
on the bright side, hopefully this will keep more people at home, which is fine by me.....

agreed. last weekend i spent 6 hours climbing up 4 kilometers to the top of wulchulsan (the "third most famous fall mountain in korea"). it took over 2 hours to walk a kilometer across a suspension bridge and up stairs bolted into the rock face. korea needs more fat people and bear-scare-tactics.

Speakeasy TN
11-19-2010, 08:16
Snooki makes my skin crawl..

Well that's it.......... my last refuge has been defiled by the little round Guidette!

Carbo
11-19-2010, 09:39
Misrepresented? Well, yes in terms of everybody in NJ being like characters portrayed in Jersey Shore, Jerseylicious, The Sopranos, etc. But I lived in NJ for several decades, and I knew people just like Snooki - and Tony Soprano. But just like all Californians being like characters from 90210, the stereotypes are taken from real life - in these cases art does mimics life. But I have to tell you, after living in UT, CO, and now NH, I could never live in NJ again. Too hectic, too impersonal / impolite, and too much of a nanny / police state.
Most of what you say is true.

I was born and raised in NJ (Elizabeth of all places!) and I couldn't wait to get out. I lived in 5 other states plus New Zealand and look where I live today... NJ. I consider it sort of like the kitchen junk drawer, everything is here even though I may never use it.

On another thought, if we all expressed our concerns to CBS over that "thing" instead of posting here (I admit I'm guilty also), maybe it would be a more positive step toward preventing this crap in the future.

the goat
11-19-2010, 10:51
I'm always bothered by popular accounts that distort the nature of the trail, and by alleged trail supporters who claim to welcome such distortions because it keeps the public away.

The trail had to be rescued once by public institutions when it was near collapse. The rescue happened because the idea of a long distance trail built by volunteers struck a chord with the general public. The general public responded, Congress acted, and the trail survived much to the surprise and opposition of many.

Those who think the trail is now permanently protected and that it now can best be protected by discouraging public interest and participation (crowds) simply lack any perception of the nature of political life in a democracy.

Weary
ah weary, your passive-aggressiveness & overreations never disappoint. the trail isn't going to disappear over a silly TV show that 3 people watched. get a grip.

sbhikes
11-19-2010, 15:06
I also thought the episode would only serve to make people even more fearful of hiking the trail, and in a bad way. Fortunately, I don't think it's the most popular show on TV.

By the way, Santa Barbara is never represented accurately on TV, either. The rich people and luxury are such a tiny portion of it. It's a city of poor people, homeless, immigrants and students, and there's a ton of the most rugged, remote and wild wilderness few have ever seen only a few miles from town. Half the people living here have no idea.

Dogwood
11-19-2010, 16:24
...When I first decided to do the AT, everyone around me told me that it wasn't safe and the people get killed all the time out there. Stuff like this really burns me up because it's horrible trail PR and makes us shaggy thru-hikers out to be, at the very least, untrustworthy. This is horrible PR for the trail and trail people. Can you tell I'm pissed?

What you need to understand is what The Chop alludes to in post # 5 and Sgt Rock mentions in post # 18. They understand that this is ONLY a probably made in California(Hollywood) TV show. I would emphasis the word "show." NOT TOTALLY FACTUAL! Don't believe Hollywood's misunderstandings of the AT, stereotyping, or fall for the fear mongering!

Listern to the intent and content in Blissful's post # 35. She's not giving in to the fear!, not because she's sticking her head into the sand behaving recklessly, disregarding wise behavior, but because she approaches her beliefs about the AT through her actual experience and awareness of what it's actually like hiking the AT!

All these folks I've mentioned can say they have been there! They have done that! They have hiked the AT! They didn't read about it or ascertained their info from an overly hyped and fear promoting made for Hollywood "show." I suggest you do the same!

Most of all Tuts, I would recommend that you not get angry about someone promoting ignorance and lies, stereotyping, being prejudice, and enlisting harsh judgement. Confront the lies by relating the truth - long, loud, and often

If you are concerned about good PR for the AT the best way I know how is to take Gandhi's advice - BE THE CHANGE YOU WISH TO SEE IN THE WORLD. Changing perceptions about the AT begins with your own behavior while hiking the AT! BE A GOOD AMBASSADOR OF THE HIKING COMMUNITY! Understand, that while you are "out there" doing "your thing" you have the opportunity and, I would say, the responsibility, of making the world a better place! Stewardship in action!

Tuts
11-19-2010, 17:32
What you need to understand is what The Chop alludes to in post # 5 and Sgt Rock mentions in post # 18. They understand that this is ONLY a probably made in California(Hollywood) TV show. I would emphasis the word "show." NOT TOTALLY FACTUAL! Don't believe Hollywood's misunderstandings of the AT, stereotyping, or fall for the fear mongering!

Listern to the intent and content in Blissful's post # 35. She's not giving in to the fear!, not because she's sticking her head into the sand behaving recklessly, disregarding wise behavior, but because she approaches her beliefs about the AT through her actual experience and awareness of what it's actually like hiking the AT!

All these folks I've mentioned can say they have been there! They have done that! They have hiked the AT! They didn't read about it or ascertained their info from an overly hyped and fear promoting made for Hollywood "show." I suggest you do the same!

Most of all Tuts, I would recommend that you not get angry about someone promoting ignorance and lies, stereotyping, being prejudice, and enlisting harsh judgement. Confront the lies by relating the truth - long, loud, and often

If you are concerned about good PR for the AT the best way I know how is to take Gandhi's advice - BE THE CHANGE YOU WISH TO SEE IN THE WORLD. Changing perceptions about the AT begins with your own behavior while hiking the AT! BE A GOOD AMBASSADOR OF THE HIKING COMMUNITY! Understand, that while you are "out there" doing "your thing" you have the opportunity and, I would say, the responsibility, of making the world a better place! Stewardship in action!
Dogwoow, I always try to be a great example of what a hiker should be. I even promote it on my website. This is why the episode upset me. I admit in an early post here that I overreacted to the episode. It's not the end of the world, but it is bad PR for the trail. I feel that it hurts our cause, even in the slightest bit, but promoting a negative view of all of us.

Dogwood
11-19-2010, 17:45
Dogwoow. I kinda like that.

I get where you are coming from Tuts.

You will be faced with stuff like that everyday of your life. I don't like it either. Just don't be angry about it and STAY in that state. Represent to others a different more accurate account of hiking, the hiking community, and yourself! Put your energy into that! Guard your heart and mind against being contaminated with that negativity!

Be the change you wish to see in the world by beginning that change by changing yourself, your own attitudes, your own communication, and your own behavior.

weary
11-19-2010, 18:20
ah weary, your passive-aggressiveness & overreations never disappoint. the trail isn't going to disappear over a silly TV show that 3 people watched. .....
Quite true. But it can't help but be destructive when a lot of folks on the largest trail internet site say they welcome misinformation because it keeps hikers away.

Issues and appropriations dealing with the trail come up annually in the Congress, and before Legislators in the many of the 14 state's through which the trail passes.

We on White Blaze don't comment in a vacuum. If we don't stress the importance of the Appalachian Trail, we can't expect others to do so. So I'll continue to object to misleading tv shows and to hikers who seem not to understand the basic source of much needed trail support and funding.

MATC was being warned to expect a cut back in our federal funding long before the changes brought about by the election. This is a time to speak up for the trail, not to bad mouth public use.

Weary

Tuts
11-19-2010, 18:50
Weary,
Point well taken. Dogwood's point is as well. We all need to do our part to overcome the negative stigma. Perhaps the trail would have more people on it, but I see little wrong with that. There will always be early and late seasons where the trail is near empty.

sbhikes
11-19-2010, 22:07
I think rather than portraying the trail either good or bad, they shouldn't have even mentioned it. Some good things are better left relatively unknown.

Wise Old Owl
11-19-2010, 22:24
ah weary, your passive-aggressiveness & overreations never disappoint. the trail isn't going to disappear over a silly TV show that 3 people watched. get a grip.

TRY:
Neisen
October 10th, 2010, Criminal Minds ranked sixth in DVR (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Digital_video_recorder) playback (2.40 million viewers), and seventh in the demo playback

14 million people watch this show live in late October
Wednesday 9:00 P.M.September 22, 2010May 20112010–2011TBA14.05 (to date)

Carbo
11-19-2010, 22:24
Weary,
Point well taken. Dogwood's point is as well. We all need to do our part to overcome the negative stigma. Perhaps the trail would have more people on it, but I see little wrong with that. There will always be early and late seasons where the trail is near empty.

I don't think the negative stigma exists, at least not from that CBS showing. And I agree the trail is near empty, even here in NJ on the off-season. Last week on a two-day hike near the DWG I saw less than 5 people. And it's not just on the AT, the beaches here are empty as well (and free!) on the off season. I hiked the beach for an entire day and I saw one person. Kind of ironic since I could see the NYC skyline off in the distance.

weary
11-19-2010, 23:07
I think rather than portraying the trail either good or bad, they shouldn't have even mentioned it. Some good things are better left relatively unknown.
That might be true if the trail had been built on private land by someone with the resources to keep it maintained. But the trail from the beginning has been a public resource totally dependent on public interest and support for its creation and survival.

Sadly too many hikers seem to think that the trail always was and always will be. I was appalled when walking north from Springer Mountain how many fellow hikers I met had no conception of how the trail was created and how it continues to be. Federal acquisition of the trail corridor was in full swing in 1993. Few that I met along the trail seemed to have any idea why this was happening.

I vividly remember one angry guy who protested the federal effort. "The federal government should mind its own business. If the ATC wants a trail, the ATC should buy the land."

The trail from the beginning was an impossible dream. It was created by volunteers through through many hundreds of miles of private land connecting national parks, national forests and state lands. It was impossible because every acre of connecting trail miles had to have the permission of the private owner.

During the boom years that followed World War two the private owners had other uses for their mountain slopes. The land was in demand for residential developments and timber harvesting. Each year more and more of the original trail had to be shifted to public highways.

After years of agitation, Congress was persuaded to buy a narrow trail corridor, returning most of the trail to wood lands and high mountain ridgelines that had been the original dream.

But federal ownership makes the dream of a secret trail impossible. No longer is it possible for the trail to be included among the "Some good things are better left relatively unknown," goal.

Why? There are a thousand of reasons, both practical and philosophical.

But this post is long enough.

Weary

Luddite
11-19-2010, 23:10
TRY:
Neisen
October 10th, 2010, Criminal Minds ranked sixth in DVR (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Digital_video_recorder) playback (2.40 million viewers), and seventh in the demo playback

14 million people watch this show live in late October
Wednesday 9:00 P.M.September 22, 2010May 20112010–2011TBA14.05 (to date)

Wow. It may be a little quieter on the trail. :D

slow
11-19-2010, 23:26
This just will give ...most wimp packers on the board a reason to say ,it's not for the bears.:-?NO reason to pack bottom line.

sbhikes
11-20-2010, 10:58
That might be true if the trail had been built on private land by someone with the resources to keep it maintained. But the trail from the beginning has been a public resource totally dependent on public interest and support for its creation and survival.

What I mean is, better that the trail is sought out by those who are looking for it rather than discussed by popular culture where it is bound to be misunderstood.

Lion King
11-20-2010, 11:32
Id be more worried that some psycho saw the show and thought "ummm, new stomping grounds for my crazy"

Wise Old Owl
11-20-2010, 11:54
Well the popular culture is going to misunderstand it more than ever now.

Unfortunately this guy is dead, so it won't matter much... but based on his Tennessee appearance or woodsy look, he is ....

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=307308080586&id=28a2ce1185e1db6034d4b353c63c1a4a&index=ch1&url=http%3a%2f%2ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2f2504%2f 3800985799_a11767b8fb_o.jpg

A. Appalachian Man
B. a Felon
C. a Pedophile
D. a Famous Person
E. All of the Above.

Lone Wolf
11-20-2010, 11:57
Well the popular culture is going to misunderstand it more than ever now.

Unfortunately this guy is dead, so it won't matter much... but based on his Tennessee appearance or woodsy look, he is ....

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=307308080586&id=28a2ce1185e1db6034d4b353c63c1a4a&index=ch1&url=http%3a%2f%2ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2f2504%2f 3800985799_a11767b8fb_o.jpg

A. Appalachian Man
B. a Felon
C. a Pedophile
D. a Famous Person
E. All of the Above.

he was from N.C.

Wise Old Owl
11-20-2010, 12:01
LW don't give it away.

Tenderheart
11-20-2010, 12:23
Well the popular culture is going to misunderstand it more than ever now.

Unfortunately this guy is dead, so it won't matter much... but based on his Tennessee appearance or woodsy look, he is ....

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=307308080586&id=28a2ce1185e1db6034d4b353c63c1a4a&index=ch1&url=http%3a%2f%2ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2f2504%2f 3800985799_a11767b8fb_o.jpg

A. Appalachian Man
B. a Felon
C. a Pedophile
D. a Famous Person
E. All of the Above.


Of course, that's Popcorn Sutton. I believe he committed suicide in lieu of going to prison for yet another illegal liquor charge. He starred in a PBS special which dealt with making moonshine.


litefoot 2000
litefoot 2000

Lone Wolf
11-20-2010, 12:34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7b3EqsB6o&feature=related

weary
11-20-2010, 16:35
What I mean is, better that the trail is sought out by those who are looking for it rather than discussed by popular culture where it is bound to be misunderstood.
And what I mean is survival of the trail in the long term requires broad public understanding to combat those who seek to reduce public support of such "frivolous" things as hiking trails that only a relative few ever use.

Odd Man Out
11-20-2010, 16:53
And what I mean is survival of the trail in the long term requires broad public understanding to combat those who seek to reduce public support of such "frivolous" things as hiking trails that only a relative few ever use.

Yes. And "those" are the people who like to use the word "socialism" a lot, as in "public support of things only a few use"

Wise Old Owl
11-20-2010, 17:04
I really do not understand the above post as the AT is supported both by government "game lands" and public donation to good groups like the ATC - I suggest a separate thread...

Back on topic ... Look back to an old radio show with War of the Worlds and remember people took it at face value and all over the country People suddenly thought it was the end and the aliens were coming. Honest, folks a movie can sway some people blindly into thinking that we are all social outcasts.

Modern examples of public outcry are

Mel Gibsons "The Passion of Christ" 2004

A little closer to home:

Austin Powers.

Suddenly 900+ kids calling my son Austin "Austin Powers"

So Yes there is a huge problem with bad PR for the trail....

I'm Done with the thread, unless someone adds something significant.

weary
11-20-2010, 17:41
I really do not understand the above post as the AT is supported both by government "game lands" and public donation to good groups like the ATC - I suggest a seperate thread........

Nor am I really sure what WOO is trying to say. The original poster complained that the tv show "... really burns me up because it's horrible trail PR and makes us shaggy thru-hikers out to be, at the very least, untrustworthy. This is horrible PR for the trail and trail people. Can you tell I'm pissed?"

I've never seen the show, but I agreed that adverse publicity is never helpful for a trail with relatively few users and which requires quite a bit of public support. A lot of the trail in Pennsylvania is on state game lands. A significant amount of the trail in Maine is on state reserved lands.

I don't know much about other states but MATC relies heavily on donations from government agencies, corporations, the general public, and the federal government, all of which are influenced by public perceptions of the trail and its users.

One responder thinks we don't have to worry because one bit of adverse publicity won't kill the trail. I doubt if anyone ever thought it would. But one bit of adverse publicity adds to the public worries that we have all experienced and to so comment is in line with the original poster's position and therefore shouldn't require a thread split.

Weary

Wise Old Owl
11-20-2010, 18:17
Thanks Weary

Tuts
11-20-2010, 20:13
Originally, I was thinking more about the rep us hikers would get (we all get stereotyped sometimes), but Weary brought up some great points relating to the trail's existence itself. I'm going to email the show and the network requesting they do another episode with this charecter and the general thru-hiker population is somehow shown in a better (more realistic) way. It could work out for some good PR for the trail. Go fig...

rickb
11-20-2010, 21:33
Originally, I was thinking more about the rep us hikers would get (we all get stereotyped sometimes), but Weary brought up some great points relating to the trail's existence itself. I'm going to email the show and the network requesting they do another episode with this charecter and the general thru-hiker population is somehow shown in a better (more realistic) way. It could work out for some good PR for the trail. Go fig...

If you are going to e-mail the network, you might also suggest this book about a AT real-life murder, the investigation and the legal process that followed.

http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Truth-Murder-Appalachian-Trail/dp/155849166X

It has sex, prejudices of the worst kind and all the elements that TV seems to like.

walkin' wally
11-21-2010, 11:12
and thats the reason you do NOT watch it! RIGHT:D

So long as you are happy that's all that matters. :D

Carbo
11-21-2010, 13:25
Originally, I was thinking more about the rep us hikers would get (we all get stereotyped sometimes), but Weary brought up some great points relating to the trail's existence itself. I'm going to email the show and the network requesting they do another episode with this charecter and the general thru-hiker population is somehow shown in a better (more realistic) way. It could work out for some good PR for the trail. Go fig...

Send a copy of this thread to the network.

Tabasco
11-21-2010, 13:29
At least they could have shown the guy using Trekking poles, if I have ever seen a guy who need 'em, it was him. You people that this **** and yourselves way too seriously.

kayak karl
11-21-2010, 13:30
Send a copy of this thread to the network.
you are joking, right??

weary
11-21-2010, 14:42
At least they could have shown the guy using Trekking poles, if I have ever seen a guy who need 'em, it was him. You people that this **** and yourselves way too seriously.
Thank you Tabasco for whatever it may have been that you were trying to say.

Carbo
11-21-2010, 19:02
you are joking, right??
Nope, but I wouldn't want to draw unwanted attention to WB.

the goat
11-22-2010, 13:06
TRY:
Neisen
October 10th, 2010, Criminal Minds ranked sixth in DVR (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Digital_video_recorder) playback (2.40 million viewers), and seventh in the demo playback

14 million people watch this show live in late October
Wednesday 9:00 P.M.September 22, 2010May 20112010–2011TBA14.05 (to date)

great. even better.

Pedaling Fool
11-22-2010, 14:24
Please don't link this thread to anyone -- Talk about bad trail PR:rolleyes:

sbhikes
11-22-2010, 14:26
For what it's worth, I found this episode to be quite a bit less believable and a lot more forgettable and even boring than other episodes.

bus
11-22-2010, 16:23
Aren't most of the towns that shaggy and trail worn hikers hike trough accustomed to seeing those same shaggy and trail won hikers?

Unless it is friends and family that you are worried might think that the trail has a Ted Bundy every other section (which if they know you and trust your judgment should be a moot point anyway), I would just chalk it up to Hollywoods typical misinterpretation of anything it tries to interpret-from Gidget on it's always been that way...

but I havent watched tv ( which is ironic because I work in tv) in about 5 years, so, what do I know...

walkin' wally
11-23-2010, 08:11
What I mean is, better that the trail is sought out by those who are looking for it rather than discussed by popular culture where it is bound to be misunderstood.

Exactly, what a great post. If someone is interested in it, then go find it.:sun

weary
11-23-2010, 12:36
Exactly, what a great post. If someone is interested in it, then go find it.:sun
The problem is that there is no way we can keep "popular culture" out of the equation. The trail is a fascinating mystery to most people. The rare instances of violence get magnified a thousand fold in the minds of the majority, who are fascinated by a 2000-mile foot path and wonder why anyone would attempt to walk such a thing.

The best we can do is to recognize that a strange institution located on public land and supported in part by public dollars needs public support. So I try to correct misinformation, and praise favorable publicity. Especially since the trail and the protection of its environs will always be a work in progress.

The trail in Maine is widely praised for being the wildest of the 14 AT states. But that wildness is also the most threatened among the 14 states. The trail was once surrounded by commercial forest lands, dedicated to growing trees. Now it's mostly surrounded by land that has been ourchased by developers and land speculators, land now dedicated to building networks of luxury resorts and second homes.

What to do? The first thing we need to do is to recognize among ourselves the nature of the trail and the threats that it is facing, and who are our friends and who are our enemies. I'm reminded of the chorus of criticsm voiced a couple of years ago when AMC bought a large chunk of the 100-mile wilderness. One prominent white blazer even criticized the Nature Conservancy's role in managing an even larger tract surrounding the trail just south of Baxter Park and Katahdin.

I'm not entirely happy with the direction AMC's management is taking, but it clearly is far better than any conceivable second choice. And I'm proud of the role the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust had in the protection of Abraham and in inching the high peaks region towards the national agenda for protection.

Weary www.matlt.org

Cookerhiker
11-23-2010, 13:43
And we need to keep preaching especially to the clueless among many hikers even here on WhiteBlaze: don't take anything about the Appalachian Trail for granted.

I'm not just talking about blazing or cutting brush or relocations or building check-dams or shelters or even preserving its viewsheds, wildlife, water sources, town services. Rather, its very existence is no sure thing. Especially in Maine which, unlike most of the South, the AT is surrounded by private land owned by developers who don't give a damn about hikers or the Trail.

AmyJanette
12-18-2010, 15:28
My mother is an avid Criminal Minds fan, and this episode came on right after I told her about my plan for a 2011 thru hike. She hasn't exactly been unsupportive, but she's never been 100% okay with me doing a solo thru hike. She got pretty upset and tried to argue with me that I shouldn't go because I'd get murdered or raped or kidnapped or SOMETHING.

In my small town (approx pop. 4500) in the last year, there was a murder, a couple who tried to hire a hitman to murder the one's ex wife (luckily they 'hired' an undercover cop!), and a police officer that was killed in a gun battle (not in town, but he was my mother's neighbour). I explained to my mother that there was more chance of me being murdered here in town than on the trail and that people on the trail looked out for each other and that there were more murders in one year in any city nearby than there were on the trail in its entire history.

I also told her that it was more dangerous for me to be driving this winter (we've been hit hard by snowstorms and lake streamers - I'm on the shore of L. Huron in Ontario) than it was to be hiking the AT.

It seemed to reassure her about me being murdered, but now she's on about me being eaten by bears. I told her as long as I didn't sleep with my head on a slice of pizza I should be fine...LOL...

So, I forget my point now...hahaha...:p

Maybe something about that episode maybe not portraying us hikers in a bad light, but making our loved ones concerned for our safety...it p*ssed me off too...I remember watching it with someone and saying, "I hope my mother didn't watch tonight!" because I KNEW she'd be worried about me. But pretty much all you can do is explain the danger is negligible and that you will take reasonable precautions to ensure your safety.

I was given a tentative trail name years ago by someone I was PMing on here...After reading back this post, I think it may stick: CHATTER!

...hahahaha...

Ogre
12-18-2010, 17:51
If someone was going to base their opinion of the relative safety of various locales on Criminal Minds, then the AT would still be one of the safest places around. Episodes with crazy people on the trail: 1. Episodes with people killed in their own homes: dozens. Obviously the way to stay safe is to go hiking.

TOW
12-18-2010, 18:30
It'll keep the crowds down. Scare all the sissies away.I'm with you on that!!!!!:D

wrongway_08
12-19-2010, 12:42
I just figure the people who sit on there arses and watch T.V. and then believe what they see on a fake-made up story line are of no concern to me.

Who is going to believe or care about a persons opinion when they say;

"The A.T. is not safe, I seen a episode where'n these yungums got taken by some bearded guy and then he keeept'it'up and them-there law people never cought him ..... that guy is still-a-run'n 'round takin them kids and no body can stop him ---- the A.T. isn't noaaaa safer then the local corrections center, where I grew up!!! Just don't go out there - he'll gettaya too." - "Ohhh, the new Simpson's is on, they are teaching us about the sins of shoving crayons up your nose, can't miss this learning session ....."


You really think anyone going to take these kind of peoples opinions for real? If they do - screw them too.

Okay, I'm going hiking.

Wise Old Owl
12-19-2010, 21:06
Wrongway, there are millions of people who watch TV and accept it as real, or based on some truth.

Look at all the muggle's who believe in UFO's, Bigfoot, flat Earth, Ghosts, and Warewolves.

And lets not forget real people on Jersey Shore, makes you want to blow your brains out.

Odd Man Out
12-19-2010, 22:22
My mother is an avid Criminal Minds fan, and this episode came on right after I told her about my plan for a 2011 thru hike. She hasn't exactly been unsupportive, but she's never been 100% okay with me doing a solo thru hike. She got pretty upset and tried to argue with me that I shouldn't go because I'd get murdered or raped or kidnapped or SOMETHING...

Any one know the real data on what the biggest killers are on the AT? I'm guessing heart attack or hypothermia. And of those two, I'd suspect only the hypothermia risk is actually higher than it would be at home. Yet does anyone worry about that? What are the legitimate risks (albeit very low) of thru hiking and has anyone every shown concern over those?

weary
12-19-2010, 23:29
It'll keep the crowds down. Scare all the sissies away.
True enough. But that's not a good thing, but a bad thing for a publicly-owned trail, dependant on public support.

rickb
12-20-2010, 08:02
Any one know the real data on what the biggest killers are on the AT? I'm guessing heart attack or hypothermia. And of those two, I'd suspect only the hypothermia risk is actually higher than it would be at home. Yet does anyone worry about that? What are the legitimate risks (albeit very low) of thru hiking and has anyone every shown concern over those?

I don't have numbers on heart attacks, but...

No one on an AT thru hike has ever been reported to die of hypothermia.

No one on an AT thru hike has ever been reported to die from bees, bears, snakes or any other animal.

One person on an AT thru hike drowned crossing the Kennebec. That why the ATC hired a guide to paddle people across. There was another drowning in VT but there is now a bridge there.

No one on an AT thru hike has been reported killed from lightening.

No one an an AT thru hike has been reported killed in a car crash while hitching.

No one on an AT thru hike has been reported killed by a fall or falling rocks.

Five people on thru hikes have been reported killed by complete strangers.

4eyedbuzzard
12-20-2010, 11:51
Any one know the real data on what the biggest killers are on the AT? I'm guessing heart attack or hypothermia. And of those two, I'd suspect only the hypothermia risk is actually higher than it would be at home. Yet does anyone worry about that? What are the legitimate risks (albeit very low) of thru hiking and has anyone every shown concern over those?


I don't have numbers on heart attacks, but...

No one on an AT thru hike has ever been reported to die of hypothermia.

No one on an AT thru hike has ever been reported to die from bees, bears, snakes or any other animal.

One person on an AT thru hike drowned crossing the Kennebec. That why the ATC hired a guide to paddle people across. There was another drowning in VT but there is now a bridge there.

No one on an AT thru hike has been reported killed from lightening.

No one an an AT thru hike has been reported killed in a car crash while hitching.

No one on an AT thru hike has been reported killed by a fall or falling rocks.

Five people on thru hikes have been reported killed by complete strangers.
The legitimate risks of hiking are very similar to all the risks of everyday life. You're obviously at somewhat greater risk of tick and insect bourne diseases, hypothermia (worry, no - plan for, yes), falling (either from a height or just tripping), foot and ankle injuries, etc. Burns from hiking stoves / cooking / fires are also a common injury as we're cooking under less than good ergonomic / safety conditions. Hot water / food spills are common. You're less likely to be in an auto accident, hit by a car, attacked by a human, or even attacked by a dog (although as far as animal attacks on the trail go dogs are the most common "offenders"), etc.

Add to the 5 murders of actual thru-hikers 6 other trail related murders of hikers on or near the AT since roughly the mid 1970's. Obviously, the murders are the biggest worry and most publicized. But they are pretty damn rare from a statistical standpoint, which granted, doesn't help the victims. Several were double homicides. All but one incident involved women in their 20's as part of the victim profile (the men accompanying them were also murdered), and I believe all but two happened in the month of May (hows that for a "Hmmm"). Many happened at or near shelters that were close to road crossings. Common sense tells us don't camp near roads, be wary of people who don't fit in (like a guy hanging around a shelter without gear - duh), be wary if being followed, etc.

The much more likely risks to your general health come from falls, stress injuries, burns, cuts, human pathogens, water bourne pathogens (Giardia, Crypto, etc) ticks (Lyme and other disease), mosquitos (West Nile and others). Any of these can have or develop complications that can reach far beyond just annoying especialy if not properly attended to. Common sense, hygiene, planning, proper first aid, and seeking medical care when needed goes a long way toward minimizing any permanent problem from these risks.

the goat
12-20-2010, 13:12
!!!!!!!!!!!!!


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

????????????

4eyedbuzzard
12-20-2010, 13:27
????????????
He's trying to up his thread count to 30 in order to post to the selling used gear forum. He asked about why he needed 30 in a prior thread.